NEW Balance Dataslate Review - Is This 10.5th Edition? - Warhammer 40k

MASSIVE changes to the game just arrived in the form of the Balance Dataslate and Munitorum Field Manual, so let's talk about it before we put some on the table!
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[@Rostamo1]

So actually. Throwing grenades as your falling back is an actual military thing. So GWs logic was kinda ehh there as that's a real life army tactic to save the squad while falling back. Grenade and fall back in 40k makes perfect sense actually.

[@TabletopTitans]

Totally agreed! It felt like a weird reason

[@scolack123]

Yeah really strange Was a fun way to still snag some damage while you were setting yourself up be inable to shoot due to falling back Abd it cost a CP, seemed fair

[@karlwes6273]

People might actually use the special divergent chapter detachment instead of reusing ironstorm

[@johnj.spurgin7037]

Yep. Good, but SM still feel mildly underpowered?

[@toferkrz946]

I said it day 1 when the Space Marines were previewed, over a week ago: divergent chapters should not have access to all the same detachments as Codex chapters, it's gonna be an impossible to balance shitshow. Lo and behold, we have an impossible to balance shitshow where a struggling army gets nerfs to one of its two functional builds because their detachment is getting pilfered by weirdo space vampires and Christian renfaire afficionados.

[@RSBurgener]

It wouldn't be such a problem if internal detachment balance was anywhere near equal footing. But one or two are always crazy good and the rest just barely get used. I'm glad they're correcting the worst offenders, but there's still a lot of "what we're they thinking?"

[@johnj.spurgin7037]

@@RSBurgener I guess the trick is to not be limited by GW tournament standards and play casual games? That leaves space for houserules, as long as people agree.

[@RSBurgener]

@@johnj.spurgin7037 I'm with you there. And though competitive seems to dominate the conversation (certainly on KZbin) this is still the type of games most of us are playing. Competitive players are a vocal and admired minority, I am lead to believe so anyway. I predict that in the next ten years, the pendulum will swing the other way. People will want to right their own rules one day. And they'll have to adjust the game for that. Competitive will become stale to the community eventually.

[@specialmeats]

The pivot change is so weird. Stuff on circle bases that LOOKS like it would need to use the pivot rule - drukhari raiders, or every eldar tank, for example - don't use it, but an exocrine DOES because it's on an oval base?

[@toferkrz946]

It's a baffling decision to be sure. With the amount of corner cases and cans of worms the pivot rules open, it really feels like a time capsule from 6th or 7th edition. I didn't think modern GW designers, with all their competitive play fixations, were still capable of writing something so clunky and full of holes. I'm not happy to be proven wrong.

[@reeceheyward3537]

My roommate is raging because with the errata to pivot now Yraine has a pivot cost lol

[@ebonezra8073]

Battle Sisters Squad now cost 115?! Dominion cost 115?! 5 Repentia cost 90?! Morven + Bodyguard cost 370??!! Yeah, I think this was a bit of an over-correction. They might as well be weaker Space Marines with how few models they'll be able to field...

[@Tonybagadonut5]

I don’t think the grenade strat needed changed

[@johnj.spurgin7037]

It REALLY hurts GSC. They don't have much that can pray to hurt tanks and monsters.

[@FeatsDaily]

So Archons now have bubbles of your stuff costs +1 cp. 3 cp to interrupt? 2 cp to armor of contempt? Have fun defending against a bunch of charges all at once, especially when you can’t even overwatch the archon hopping out and charging out of a transport. And if you have multiple archons each with the bubble? Pretty spicey. Assuming that they all get it at once.

[@hainordek8028]

archons got the vect only if they are your warlord. if they keep that part of the ability, you only get one archon going around doing that which is still awesome.

[@toferkrz946]

If an Archon and his bodyguard unit want to sit in the middle of the board rather than do their transport hopping reactive move un-targetable bullcorn, that's fine by me. I'm happy to pay an extra CP when part of that deal is that I actually get to swing a chainsword at the guy for once.

[@KarsunaOG]

I usually check in to see the updates they do to the game. I only played 2 games of 10th in the beginning and didn't like it. It's nice to see the game is progressing and being updated. However, I'm always on the look out to finally play with the massive amount of kroot I have and again GW disappoints me. Too bad GW, you would have got me back. Great video as always!

[@ultranecronmarine2295]

Pivot rules basically mean -2 movement to MVBs…

[@Tanuvein]

Some progress here, might start being fun again near the end of the edition.

[@tristanwhite9185]

I play Iron Hands and Custodes. Incentive to even play a game is really low. I guess I will just not play until 11th.

[@snowbjorne]

I advice you to find the fun through casual and narrative, where the game is still just a game, a story and a laugh.

[@RSBurgener]

Competitive is the old medieval idea of the wheel of fortune: you're either on the way up, you're on top, you're on your way down or you're on the bottom. That's like a 50% satisfaction rate. It's great when your army is in the good spot, but what are you supposed to do when it's not? Shell out $2500 for a new army that takes a year to paint? What's next year's meta gonna look like? No, you have to break out of that cycle. I agree with the comment above. If you're working on a campaign and pursuing a less tangible goal, you can "win" at the game a lot more than the rat race of Competitive. There's got to be a way to get rid of the hollow feeling that has set in. I know people find competitive exciting, but it can also be a shallow, cynical experience. Balance is good, but making this game about something it didn't start out as being can be really disappointing.

[@johnwalker6557]

Oh wait, GW hit a faction with the ol' double nerf of points hikes AND rules changes? Color me surprised. I get the points hikes for most things, but Havocs seems out of nowhere. I had not seen them in any top list and was excited to get some on the table as some decent anti tank.

[@RSBurgener]

Overzealous for sure. CSM win rate is gonna go straight down the shitter this summer.

[@noirceuillesombre3472]

thanks for doing this. 🤙

[@BigHatMatt]

Death Guard got nothing but nerfs, and while you can have your joy at the indirect nerf, to me it means that our small pool of usable units got even smaller, while any unit we are tempted to take got untouched or price hiked.... yeah not "unchanged" at all for us.

[@voodoo83]

That and the PBC didn't even get a points drop like everything else. A lot of question if they are even worth taking.

[@tempestterrain]

Not worth taking for me. Ill be getting extra plague marines ​@voodoo83

[@liveitup1216]

Imperial Knights about to be eating real good, hell yeah.

[@thomasbrittain4343]

So, as a GK player, can I use Mists of Demos twice in a round? (2 different units)

[@johnj.spurgin7037]

Probably not? The blanket multi-use of strats is gone. Only core strats since they sometimes get referenced by name in unit abilities.

[@scolack123]

​@@johnj.spurgin7037yep Von ryans leapers get free heroic intervention Lictors get free rapid ingress Tigurius gets free overwatch and a few others Etc Only with those types of units can a strat be doubled

[@latifucdereli525]

Can we call it 10.1 or Season 2 10th Edition. Coz they gonna do this again and we only a year in.

[@newonlinetheatren.o.t1339]

Excited for Tyranids, however. Glad chaos didn't get too hosed.

[@sheeke2156]

Can I now drop a Greater Daemons down 6” from the enemy?

[@Swordsmansmith87]

And then spawn daemons around them

[@liquiddude9855]

Chaos need more nerfs

[@thehiddenheretic]

No, warhammer needs good rule writers before we need their bad rule writers to blindly swap points up and down every couple of months

[@NecroGoblin-yl2fx]

exited for Nids, but fear it is not enough. and they sneakily removed the two Hierodules to Legends.

[@ebonezra8073]

What's the point of pivot rules if line of sight is based on hull? Why turn your model when you can just give it a tall antenna or long barrel? Movement rules are so stupid if not to the base, and if it's base, then it doesn't matter how you turn it. Why do I have to pay a penalty to turn my turret to shoot? If you're concerned about "realism" of throwing grenades first, then rushing, real tanks turn turrets WHILE moving!! I hate it. Especially when you have a rules lawyer at the table. I don't even need the advantage of shooting from the top of a smoke stack instead of the barrel. What a stupid rule. Oh, and RAW as written basically just means vehicles and monsters have -2" movement or if you twitch the vehicle JUST SLIGHTLY, your pedantic opponent will RIGHTLY call you out for cheating. UGGHHHHH!!!

[@getjinxed7354]

honestly think sisters are less interesting to play now with the codex and nerfs than pre codex. repentia are just unplayable now outside of their one detachment u will never pay 180 for them in any other detachment. rets are 1 less wound 1 less toughness and worse guns the spacemarines devs and cost 5 pts more? zephyrim are worse than jump marines and are 10pts more. warsuits at 370 means they basically will always have to kill 2-3 vehicles to get their pts worth. like seriously think 3 warsuits and vahl have to kill 3 russes to get positive points value. exorcist up 10pts despite indirect nerf. see another tau case coming where people over react to rules and they end like 46-47% win rate post nerfs like tau did.

[@meksoul4170]

Orks are back to garbage status, where they have always been. I will play them anyway as I have done for 30 years. Cause me only wantz Waaagh!!!

[@newonlinetheatren.o.t1339]

Read guards changes again... they're awful for their regiments

[@newonlinetheatren.o.t1339]

Specifically the issue is that there are many antiinfantry tanks, and many antitank infantry models, so the synergy is completely off

[@snowbjorne]

​@@newonlinetheatren.o.t1339or, those units just got a buff and are more general-purpose, i.e. you dont lock yourself in to fighting tanks just because you run many tanks, and vice versa

[@newonlinetheatren.o.t1339]

@snowbjorne this is objectively incorrect. If I take a leman russ loaded out with anti infantry weapons, why would I want to have my detachment ability be lethal hits against vehicles? Secondly, heavy weapon teams etc from regiments have no need for antiinfantry

[@snowbjorne]

@@newonlinetheatren.o.t1339 its objectively incorrect that they are more general purpose with those lethal hits? Youll have to define "objectively" for me, because our definitions seem to differ...

[@newonlinetheatren.o.t1339]

@snowbjorne Their new ability says INFANTRY HAS TO KILL INFANTRY and TANKS HAVE TO KILL TANKS This is SPECIALIZATION, not generalization. In terms of generalizing, yes, characters who have anti-tank weapons can now get lethal hits against infantry.. oh boy, I'm so glad I am direction my lascanons at infantry

[@kevoreilly6557]

Honestly - it’s ridiculous … competitive gaming is killing this hobby

[@Blaster__CA]

No, it's not. That's just clickbait ridiculousness.

[@stephenkall9602]

This update is hot garbage. Ive only been playing since the beginning of 9th. My main armys are orks and space wolves and they have effectively made what i enjoy to being not playable on multiple levels. I think its a good time to take a break from the game for awhile.

[@baejus]

They sold you boys, now they want to sell you deff dreads and killa kans

[@Casanovadracula]

Amen. Im gonna look at using One Page Rules here on out.

[@robertscott5677]

Wolves look absolutely fine as far as I can tell. Minor points changes?

[@stephenkall9602]

@robertscott5677 well the other problem is the rules changes like strategem changes and cp. I ran one wolflord on thunderwolf (captain) that gave me the free strat for Lance in stormlance and then paid the one cp for the other as wolf attacks are only strength 5 so Lance as much as possible made sense. Now they've made that completely useless. Watch space wolves will drop now below 45% they dropped the nerf hammer too hard like they did to custodes.

[@BorderCityTabletop]

​@stephenkall9602 It's hilarious you think Space Wolves are doomed because you can't give a second unit +1 to wound. Having them be actually versatile with the ability to chose a Saga for their entire army and actually benefit from their detachment rule is so much better for them then spamming the same Stormlance list over and over. Sorry that your list suffers but the Wolves will entire.

[@weathforjr]

Yeh, no. Thank you. Maybe if their business model was to get everyone to quit their hobby, then sell to Disney or someone. Yeh, then I'd see how this makes sense.😂 🤡

[@karlwes6273]

Let me guess you play deathwatch

[@weathforjr]

​@@karlwes6273 Worse ... Space Fish COMMUNISTS! 😮 I'll admit, I'm sore from recently having half my model range deleted or handcuffed, and the laziest most malicious compliance "codex" that I've ever seen... So, yes, I'm bitter and questing towards 3d printing.

[@karlwes6273]

@@weathforjr you think your codex was lazy, try playing custodes, last couple months were rough but things are at least looking up now

[@weathforjr]

Not competing😂 it's all a dull grey mess at this point.

[@karlwes6273]

@@weathforjr meh, I also play CSM so I’m eating good with that Soulforged warppack is awesome

[@Klierowski]

Why they nerfed already bad Codex space marines? Im new to game and i already dont want to play no more, every opponent feels like stronger army...

[@johnj.spurgin7037]

The problem isn't the nerfs to ironstorm. It's that the other options have languished and there's no reason to play anything but Ultramarines.

[@toferkrz946]

Because they want to push people to actually try the other detachments so that they can figure out what needs buffing and where exactly. The white noise of Ironstorm vehicle spam was tuning out all other ways you could conceivably play Marines. At least that's what I like to tell myself, since the thought that it's simply because Space Marines Plus chapters were pilfering the detachment is too depressing to entertain.

[@snowbjorne]

If you are new to the game, every opponent IS stronger.