New Creative Ways to Reduce Prices? I URSA Cine 12K for $7K - CineD Focus Check Ep 50

[@Hassanakora]

Black magic 12k + DJI focus system

[@sa.t.2507]

If this isn’t evidence enough of how heavily overpriced Arri cameras are then I don’t know. They want to claim that some minor software adjustments are worth so much money. This is only done because they want to compete with the lower price cinema cameras, but they can’t find an excuse on how to lower the prices without revealing the heavy markup they have on them.

[@MasamitsuKai]

While yes the hardware is overpriced 100%, I still do think that the R&D is the real price. I do think its unfortunate that they can't make this more affordable for everyone

[@alesko5]

It's only overpriced if their target market (large productions with large budgets) agree with you and aren't buying their products. Just like anything in the marketplace, widgets are priced appropriately if enough people are willing to pay for them to keep the seller in business/profitable. Arri's target market is not the indie/small-budget filmmakers.

[@stephenf3838]

Arri cameras remain the best for cinema. The relative cost of the camera is minuscule on most budgets.

[@williamsolis1]

R&D and build quality also are costly.

[@ForestCinema]

I really hope economy of scale allows BMD to put the RGBW in a Pyxis Pro.

[@jonhuij]

that would be really cool. hopefully with internal ND as well. They can call it Pyxis cine xD

[@sa.t.2507]

I went with the Canon C400 from FX9. It just makes sense, extremely compact packed with everything I may need for the next 10 years.

[@tjh__]

A big thing I've found as an Arri owner op, is once client's budgets crashed down, they became super resistant to using a high-end camera even if it's offered as a small up-charge from something like a Canon or Sony. They simply want the cheapest viable option most of the time, even if the difference in cost to them is fairly small. And I'm happy to shoot on my Canon if it means I'm working, it's just a shame I have a Mini LF that's mostly gathering dust. If my experience is shared with many others in my position, I can see why things are they way they are. Just a spooky lack of interest in this style of production. A total vibe shift in terms the importance of image quality. Maybe filmmaking is becoming more like a data collection rather than photography. The content is so ephemeral, that it makes sense to point a bunch of FX3s at something and sort it out in the edit, rather than use an expensive camera. It may very well turn around and I hope it does, but it's no surprise to me that manufacturers are struggling... basically images are worth less money now and it all flows back from that.

[@williamsolis1]

Yeah things are changing

[@lllcinematography]

i'm a freelance dp and it's been downhill since covid. i'm basically jobless these days. people realise 99% of people dgaf about 16 stops DR and 16K for tiktok videos which is where the money is these days. cinema days are dying.

[@noBfilm]

companies know that the times of expensive cameras are over, so what they do: cutting prices for entry model cameras, sony calling the FX videocameras "cinema line" and putting their advertising money into micro influencers. hardware companies are still producing and selling products and making real money now. they know the future is changing, market is full of cameras, times changing - but right now, they can make money, so they do. micro influencer actually also making money (but not REALLY good because its a too small niche) by promoting stuff while pretending they are real filmmaker for their younger audience - so they flood the channels and telling people why they now must shoot RAW / 6K-8K / 120fps / Anamorphic etc.. So people think they can grow their business with new tech, better quality, bigger lights .... - while 95% of the stuff people shoot (even with budget) is watched on social media for 5 seconds. clients are afraid to spend money for ads, 2024 was a bad year for economy in general, 2025 will be not brighter..... so prices will go downwards, also there is no need for high end quality most of the time, so the cut costs on every corner. people were ready to spend 75k into an Alexa35 three years ago. nowadays everyone should do the math for his business when buying new gear. is the total investment of 40K for a sony burano worth it over the 10K of an FX6? is the agency / customer paying double / tripple the price for gear as you hope? how much is the camera worth in 5 years do you think? and then the pile of used cameras (yea, see all this hyped Komodos on ebay?). LED Lights - most impressive things happened in this sector the last 6 years, quality of lights and output getting better and better, prices go down. but if clients cutting money, all your lights are useless because without enough manpower, your light setup will be mediocre at best. no matter what. client is happy with the result and you move on.. Future for commercial jobs will be AI generated or mostly a mixture between "real" low-budget film cameras like FX3/FX6 (whatever model, in the sub 10K price range), Iphones and AI-Generated footage, stumped together in editing, fast cut 15 seconds clip. yea, not narrative cinema, not documentary film, - but for the rest, there will be no budget for all that fancy stuff.

[@spdcrzy]

Yes, it supports CFE Type B 4.0. The reason for the bigger price difference is likely down to economies of scale. BM charges more for the complete package because they have obviously validated and warranted that whole package, the development costs of which get passed onto the buyer. The body itself is significantly less expensive to warranty as an individual component. The packaging design, manufacturing, and shipment costs also need to be factored into the price point. Also: the base body only package HAS to be priced IMO almost close to break even relative to the full package because it forces ALL other brands to take notice. The big difference isn't just in the hardware but in the actual imaging pipeline from start to finish, and BM is going to exploit economies of scale at the commercial AND the prosumer levels simultaneously. They're really, REALLY playing the long game here.

[@williamsolis1]

I think Arri need to diversify even more. Props to black mahic for making such a great camera

[@lllcinematography]

i'm a freelance dp and it's been downhill since covid. i'm basically jobless these days. people realise 99% of people dgaf about 16 stops DR and 16K for tiktok videos which is where the money is these days. cinema days are dying.

[@dalavitang]

AFAIK, for the CFExpress module, the camera will record to both CF-B cards simultaneously (basically stripe to the CF-B cards) so that every other frame is written to one card. You then need to bring the braw files from both cards to DaVinci Resolve and it will automatically interweave the frames into a single clip. So each CF-B will record at half the frame rate and you can still use them independently (if the other card fails). Edit: I'm not sure if it always works like this or it only stripes during high frame rates. It would be cool if it records backup during low data rate and stripes during high data rate.

[@alesko5]

To make the kit the same: 1) Pelican case 2) Power brick 3) Top handle 4) Base plate 5) 8TB media module 6) Sunshade 7) PL mount. That's it. Also - 12K open gate max framerate is 80 fps

[@cornellouis]

It looks like the minimum you need to record something is: body $7000 + + cf express card ($300 whatever) + power supply $200 + EF lens (whatever). Then the question is just around rigging, lens setup, and if you need the media module, evf, etc.

[@jontedanielsson1279]

For most of my corporate shoots, we typically work within a budget that allows for renting an ARRI camera and lenses when needed. While not every project requires high-end equipment, the rental cost is rarely the biggest expense crew, post-production, and script development take up a much larger portion of the budget. Looking at local rental prices, I can get an ARRI Alexa Mini for around €550 per day, while a Sony FX6 costs about €350. That’s only a €200 difference, which, in most cases, makes the Alexa Mini the obvious choice unless it's an ultra-low-budget project or I specifically need the lower weight of the FX6. While the FX6 is full-frame, I’ve never had a client request it for that reason over an ARRI. Additionally, when you factor in the cost of lenses, lighting, gimbals, tripods, and audio gear, the camera itself is often a smaller portion of the total rental budget. For corporate work, the Alexa is already a solid choice, and for commercial or higher-end productions, renting an ARRI is even more of a no-brainer. When it comes to buying, it’s a different story. Most freelancers can justify owning an FX6, but very few can realistically invest in an Alexa. And let’s be honest, showing up with an unknown camera brand from Aliexpress (even if it’s technically good) won’t impress anyone. But if you walk in with an ARRI or RED, even those who obsess over spec sheets will instantly recognize you’re working at a professional level.

[@pasegers]

to me, just when i compare the price and spec's of the BM 8 Terra module to the ARRI codex price / specs ... there is a kind of a problem .......

[@TheSuperjamal]

@CineD can somebody figure out if the usb c will ever be activated to record the video to external drive.

[@Giovanni-Giorgio]

Blackmagic did it again. Competitive at its best.

[@agelesspics4556]

Black Magic certainly shaking up the market and that’s a 100% good thing. With the price and quality dam it’s certainly value for money. Canon, Sony plus plus pay attention.

[@rovingearth7028]

I believe Arri will eventually transition into an all rental model, catering primarily to highly specialized boutique productions. This shift aligns with trends we’ve already seen in the music industry. In the past, professional recording required massive studios filled with complex, high end equipment operated by engineers with highly specialized skills. However, advancements in technology have completely transformed that landscape. Today, it is possible to produce Grammy winning, studio quality music using nothing more than an iPad or a smartphone. A similar transformation is unfolding in the film industry. Once, high budget productions relied exclusively on proprietary, top tier camera systems that were both expensive and difficult to operate. Now, affordable digital cameras and advanced software allow independent filmmakers to achieve results that rival Hollywood level productions. As technology continues to advance, it is likely that Arri, known for its high end camera systems, will no longer focus on direct ownership models for most users. Instead, it will position itself as a premium rental service, reserved for productions that require the absolute highest standards of image quality and reliability.

[@StringerBell2002]

ARRI is diversified. ARRI has a medical imaging division- “The ARRISCOPE provides a digital 3D view of the microscopic surgical field that shares the unsurpassed image quality, dynamic range and colorimetry of all ARRI imaging systems. For the first time, it enables surgical assistants, students and staff to see and record precisely the same view, with the same quality, as the surgeon. The benefits extend far beyond the operating room, since the 3D images can be captured and enhanced for educational purposes, or even streamed in real time to audiences at medical conferences.”

[@carlporter2239]

Maybe Trump should have a Tariff for Asian owned camera companies…. Ohhh..

[@kingdom001_]

Nino's argument about Arri being a filmmaker first company is cope and a silly point to make because it doesn't really matter what the companies do if the divisions inside of the companies are already focused just as much as an independent cinema company would be. If he doesn't see it that way, then RED being bought by Nikon would be a huge problem wouldn't it? Because now RED is now part of a company that isn't focused on filmmaking, right? You see how this logic doesn't make sense, that's like saying that Sony doesn't care about the PlayStation as much as Nintendo cares about the Switch because Sony sells other things and Nintendo doesn't. It's a nonsense position that is not accurate.

[@jamarbrooks4690]

I don’t think Arri is going to have any problems selling cameras at any time. They can easily make and sell cameras for a lower price and maintain their high end camera market. A good camera is a good camera

[@williamsolis1]

Arri have a reputation to consider so them making a cheaper product or selling their cameras for less would impact that.

[@jamarbrooks4690]

@ That’s a good point.

[@michaelmerchan3426]

You also have to consider the other areas where Arri has diversified such lighting (We all know how dominant they are in the premium market with their Skypanels & big Arrimax lights on cranes). Their vast variety of lenses that are supported ultimately on all cameras given it's PL/LPL Mount (Unlike Sony, Nikon & Canon lenses). Not only on the selling side, their rental side is as well catering to high-end productions 1 to 1. & Their post-production solutions that isn't much talked about but are deep in the TV/Film Industry. It isn't just a solely camera body company. They also been around since 1917 no pun intended

[@williamsolis1]

Arri need to diversify even more. Many old companies have become irrelevant or had to reinvent themselves.

[@carlporter2239]

Arri needs to come up with an “electric car” type of camera; New technology, innovations… otherwise you’re just an ol good classic purchased by collectors. Good quality indeed, but the industry has moved on…

[@simon_sky]

I guess that Arri will rely on different value streams in future, like their virtual production. The addition of the more network focused systems also are a clear indicator of a more service and solutions focused future. This will work due to their high reputation and deep knowledge and is very likely to happen in terms of transformation with the new CEO. They will still be building extremely reliable cameras, that are used all over the world by production companies. Also they might focus more on APAC market as their film business seems quite robust. Arri never was and never will be a B2C or B2Indy company

[@renaissancedigital5730]

I can't see the FF 12K competing with ARRI unless its on a low budget production that would rent out a cheap Alexa mini OG or something. It just isn't the same market. The only people that will be using this over the Alexa are people and productions that couldn't afford an Alexa to begin with.

[@SeaUrchinFilms]

But you could have companies that weigh out renting ARRI vs purchasing FF 12K. I am not talking about Hollywood here, but there are many prod companies who use ARRI for documentary, corporate etc., and need to be very careful with budget.

[@DougThomsen]

⁠ I am one such user that @seaurchinfilms described. In Oct 2024, I shot a project for a client with 2 Mini LFs and Signature Primes. In Jan 2025, I shot the same level of project for the same client with the Ursa Cine LF and the same lenses. The differences are so small now. Hollywood likely won’t change but productions that could spend the extra money on lenses, light, locations, wardrobe, etc. will eventually have to think harder about the choice, or they’ll get surpassed by their competition.

[@SeaUrchinFilms]

@ - here you go! And there are many more "budget conscious" production companies than there are major studios with deep pockets.

[@williamsolis1]

Things are changing.

[@stephenf3838]

@@SeaUrchinFilmsbang plus you can sell it