New Greyhawk Map Unveiled

[@emjtucson]

I'm interested in you keeping us informed about all things Greyhawk. Your videos are going to be a boon to new players checking out Greyhawk after seeing it in the new DMG.

[@carlcramer9269]

With Greyhawk possibly being the official setting for 5.1, this will be doubly true.

[@johnstuartkeller5244]

Here, here!

[@Runehammer1]

this!

[@Kidharlo6723]

The inclusion of some small towns on this map (Saltmarsh and Hommlet for instance) may lead new DM’s to think that most of the Flanaess is completely empty wilderness.! I have run entire campaigns in 2-3 hexes of my Greyhawk world, fleshing out multiple villages and communities in each 30 mile hex as the gold box instructed.

[@erickent3557]

My problem was the opposite. When I first got it back in 85, my shortcoming was I saw all those nice green hexes as tamed, controlled, and peacefully populated. Very cool to hear about your 2-3 hexes! That's the kind of content I'd enjoy hearing about in Greyhawk: player-created material that puts wonder back into the environment.

[@tiktakkat]

Spindrift Isles is the original name on the Darlene Map. Lendore Isles is the changed name from FtA.

[@RetiredNavyWill]

Plus, Lenore Isles might have caused an issue with Len Lakofka’s estate? Though it was already given to them, so I’m not sure. Royalties?

[@barbwirebillmsu]

I am digging your content GG.👍 I get the 5.5e stuff doesnt interest everyone, but as some suggested, a lot of new blood are finding out about Greyhawk for the first time and GOING BACK to its roots (myself included).

[@Amesang]

The situation with Ekbir reminds me of _Ghosts of Saltmarsh_ which had Salinmoor ruled by a duke, despite being a viscounty (which was probably less of an intentional change and more like, _"Hey, what's a good title for a noble?" "Duke!" "That works!"_ …without anyone looking up an older source. With that said it _looks_ like careful attention was paid to the map to fit it into a specific timeline… and if that timeline _is_ 576 ᴄʏ - effectively a reboot of the setting - I'm personally fine with it since, despite "growing up" with 3e _Greyhawk's_ 590s ᴄʏ timeline, all of my 5e _Greyhawk_ characters use 576 ᴄʏ as a starting point and having a fresh start without all of the "baggage" could be good for attracting in new players (less to learn, more to discover). I also don't see "Slerotin's Tunnel" marked on the map, but considering how small that detail would be that doesn't necessarily mean it _hasn't_ been discovered yet. _Also_ also, I was half expecting to see Hepmonaland changed to "Melavi," which _would_ be more appropriate and less… "colonizer-sounding," I suppose? 😏 (As an aside, I appreciate the map being available as a large .PNG image, _but_ I'll stick with Anna B. Meyer's maps simply because they're so, _so_ much bigger! 😅)

[@carlcramer9269]

This kind of confused titles happened historically, and was the motivation of more than one war. :)

[@LiamsLyceum]

Considering what WotC has done as far as treating Forgotten Realms (my favorite setting) I am scared for Greyhawk but hope it proves good for fans of the setting.

[@McDB9147]

What I dislike about FR is the glut of lore, so if they can avoid that for Greyhawk, it will be an improvement

[@steveng6721]

@@McDB9147 that has been a problem for forgotten realms for almost 20 years now. FR is probably the worst official setting to run solely for that reason.

[@LiamsLyceum]

@@McDB9147well 5e FR lacks the glut, that’s kinda the problem as FR has just become parts of the Sword Coast and Greyhawk characters like Mordenkainen, Tasha, and Acererak are used over actual FR characters. It’s like only having the Nyr Dyv area and Elminster being the cool wizard around

[@ThealaSildorian]

@@McDB9147 I suspect its why they selected Greyhawk for this. The new DMG has stuff on campaign building; the GH stuff goes with that. FR is over built, but GH has been ignored for so long by WoTC they think no one has been doing anything with it since the end of LG. For the new players, that's true. Map looks nice so I'm happy to have it.

[@michaelwhite8691]

I'm coding my own video game... Using old Gygax Greyhawk as the source.

[@Jamesquarebush]

Thanks for doing these updates on new Greyhawk lore.

[@XacurRPG]

There will also be a City of Grayhawk map in the DMG, it's supposed to be a "complete campaign setting" inside the DMG. They said there will be 5 short adventures in the book, I guess those will be in the same setting.

[@nad3936]

The pressing question becomes, will Greyhawk's ruler now be a trans black disabled furry lesbian?

[@carlcramer9269]

The Prelacy of Almor and Medegia seem to be their own nations. Ahlissa and Idee are on the map, but may be just geofraphical terms. North Kingdom got a new name, Aerdiraak.

[@stoloc1]

The Hunting Lands change is reminiscent of the name that the Rovers actually called the territory rather than what the area was called by outsiders similar to the Bandit Kingdoms being called the Free Lords by locals.

[@MrRussell2020]

Well well someone's rep'ing some research. Rite on.

[@stoloc1]

@@MrRussell2020 The exact quote is "The tribes of nomadic peoples who dwell between the Wastes below the Icy Sea and the Fellreev Forest called themselves the People of the Plentiful Huntinglands but their neighbors named them the Rovers of the Barrens as they had no permanent settlements." from the 83 boxed set P33. This is a less colonialist type phrasing than the original which I have no problem with (I'm sure some people will get their knickers in a twist over it but when you can call it whatever you want at your table I don't see why)

[@tinyhowie]

@@stoloc1 I also like changing scarlet brotherhood to Shar. That would mean by this time they are strong enough to make others call them the name they wanted to be regarded as.

[@wolfjarlgrbane5771]

First book I read the whole serries of was The Micah Oba Serries. Would not be respected at all and fell on a spikein it's day as beastial and masaginistic. It was an interesting story that took you to a way out of wack situation. It also sent you through the uper echolons of cities, the game played that could be your downfall. How royalty could betray family by Ioun's Design. 5th is the best of the offerings of what wizzard intends to kill. Upon creation of MTG, they called their game the DND killer. I think that I am going use what I know from TSR and wizzards and just make my own Settings.

[@tazmokhan7614]

Am so glad I have my original Greyhawk map.

[@jellyneckrules7971]

Yep yep mine has been on the wall since the 90s

[@DUNGEONRAIDER-ADD1E]

Thanks!

[@GreyhawkGrognard]

Thank you so much! It's really appreciated.

[@Greyhawk4x4]

Had Jim Ward lived long enough to see this, it would have been very interesting to see his take.

[@MrRussell2020]

I conducted the last interview of James Ward online on a Facebook blog right before he passed away,may he Rest in Peace. And I don't think any of this so far would really freak him out. He was accustomed to dealing with the bureacracy of TSR and their edits for copyright concern etc . Ex his Deities and Demigods redacted material into 2nd edition and so on. He wouldn't necessarily like it but he understood the necessity of edits.

[@chrkel-e2i]

I think you mean Gary Gygax. Greyhawk was his creation and his primary campaign setting.

[@windmark8040]

Glad to hear you're still around on YT! Hope all is well.

[@Greyhawk4x4]

@@chrkel-e2i No. I meant exactly what I said. Jim Ward was the Author of "The World Of Greyhawk" hardbound sourcebook from 2nd edition. I met and spoke at length with Jim about Greyhawk at two separate GaryCons. Jim recently passed away and I think it would have been interesting to see his take on these developments, had he lived to see it. I already know what Gary Gygax's reaction would be as I corresponded with him before his passing. Gary had zero interest in anything put out by TSR/WOTC after his exit from the company. There. Does that clear things up for you?

[@Greyhawk4x4]

@@windmark8040 Thanks! I am probably going to start making content again. I have been doing a lot of travelling, but I am done with that for now 😁

[@JazzyBassy]

Some news to note is that they said in the DMG overview video that they are detailing regions of Greyhawk Asymmetrically, with the City of Greyhawk having the most detail (You can see Dael's Kingmill's video to see how much detail they add to a single Inn), the regions around Greyhawk having the next level of detail, and the regions away from greyhawk being a basic overview to work as a sandbox canvas for DM's. It's likely that the regions around Greyhawk will be WoG Folio style, while the outer ones will be much shorter.

[@geofftottenperthcoys9944]

Just got the Scarlet Brotherhood book through POD, also the original Greyhawk Folio from 1980.

[@RichFranks]

For a corporation who continually disclaims their foundations, they sure keep mining the hell out of old material.

[@yomama211]

they've been disneyfied lmao not an original idea for decades

[@rocketraccoon1976]

@@yomama211 Agreed. They couldn't come up with a new idea to save their lives. And the modified old ideas they put out are horrible when compared to the originals. 😒

[@PsyrenXY]

By "disclaim" do you mean modernize

[@garryame4008]

Wow! The hints of it being pre 'From the Ashes' are really promising! I wonder if Greyhawk will be DMG only, or if they plan on publishing new adventure modules in the setting as well

[@enoa4]

Really interesting to hear your take on this map. I am not surprised and greatly appreciate that you have caught several changes.

[@danieldejesusfigueredoorop1428]

Wished you had zoomed in on each region as you were talking about them (watching in mobile) well, I did it manually... It is intriguing to look at the many changes, subtle or not they did to the map. I do think they should advance a little the timeline, but not by a significant leap as they did in 4E with FR... Well, we will wait and see.

[@joeyj6808]

A new map of the Flanaess? That's like damn crack/porn to this old gamer. I expect so very little from the WotC anymore, I am elated that they did not mutilate it beyond repair. And fwiw, I always portrayed the Rovers as a noble people, similar to the Cahokia tribes of pre-Columbian Illinois, but with horses, dog carts, and a burning hatred for the Iuz-ites. And many intense game sessions revolved on running feuds in that grassland. Gods, but I miss gaming! Thanks for showing us this, amigo. As always, a great video. Your content is always top notch!

[@rikk319]

I always wrote the Rovers as Lakota/Blackfoot type peoples. My grandmother grew up on a reservation in the Dakotas, and my brother and I even did a short campaign based on pre-Columbian America with the Native American pantheon from Deities & Demigods.

[@joeyj6808]

@@rikk319 Sounds like we were thinking along similar lines. There was just so much to work with in the middle of that map. Almost an embarrassment of riches!

[@troywilliams6694]

The Flan dutchy is there, also siertch out west and the wild coast ...so i must agree this is a new timeline or parallel universe we use to call it thanks this is my first chance to see the new 5e map

[@dantherpghero2885]

I Love ALL Greyhawk Grognard videos! Can it truly be called a map if no one has written 'Here There Be Dragons' near one edge?

[@TrampasWhiteman]

Hey thanks for going over the map. I don't know the geography of Greyhawk well enough to know what changed and what didn't. I'm glad to hear that you're keeping an open mind on this. I'm excited to see Greyhawk coming back.

[@ethan1142028]

Thanks Grognard for having a neutral tone in presenting this material. I'm negative on it, but it was nice to hear you explain everything clearly, including the stuff you don't like, without screaming like a child. Your presentation style is really professional, both for the good Gygax and TSR stuff, and the bad TSR and WotC stuff, I always find myself coming back for more .

[@GreyhawkGrognard]

Many thanks! I try to be as objective as possible. I might not always succeed, but I do try.

[@DragovianMaster]

Thanks for all that information!

[@davepeller8185]

I see that the Tomb of Horrors is now (literally) on the map. Back in the day, the Tomb was "most probably located at the heart of the Vast Swamp, in hex K2-97." *Most probably* implied that one could still put it elsewhere if one wanted to. So, to any DMs out there who put their TOH in the Troll Fens or whatever: congratulations, you are now a rare, non-canon, and baffling oddity! (And you rock!)

[@NoahStavish]

Is it just me, or does this map imply that the Great Kingdom of Aerdy is not split yet?

[@zanzatbc]

While I’m happy greyhawk is getting some well deserved attention, and I believe this is good for younger players who may not be acquainted with the setting, I will always be loyal to the original work gygax created. I still use the original manual to this day, despite having changed game system many times. It’s probably the best setting ever created.

[@HavardBlackmoor]

Very useful video! Gave you a shout out on my blog where I talk about the Blackmoor change to Arn.

[@thex-philethackery4330]

Their version of Greyhawk will go either really well as it will be open, as they stated in their videos today, or it will go very poorly.

[@SwordlordRoy]

If what they did to Dragonlance is any indication, I think they're planning on resetting every setting except the Remembered Realms back to the base, covering it in a half-arsed Gazetter, and then leaving it there and ignoring it...

[@michaeldrinkard678]

I have no need of anything from the Red Wizards of the Coast. Between my resources, and your videos, I'm covered. And we don't need the changes They bring in. Thanks for giving us a review/analysis. 🙂

[@hamishshaw4907]

Really not feeling all the 5e material. I DO appreciate all the time and effort you're putting into trying to negotiate the new material, but I'm going to keep using the Darlene map and the original material.

[@GreyhawkGrognard]

This confuses me. This has nothing to do with 5E. This video is about lore. It just so happens the map is going to be coming in a 5E book.

[@hamishshaw4907]

@@GreyhawkGrognard Mongo no like change! 😁 Why can't they leave things alone? I'd be more willing to embrace the new stuff if they weren't so quick to change core things that make it uniquely Greyhawk. I'd much rather hear this from you, though. You do your dang best to make sense of the changing environment. Thank you for doing what you do.

[@rubensduarte4233]

Looks like the Dry Steppes isn't dry anymore

[@gamerprettyboy]

I'm just happy Saltmarsh is on the map. And if there is a new timeline like you speculate, I blame Olidammara.

[@BockwinkleB]

Thanks for the link. I can print it out and use it next time I'm out of toilet paper.

[@weray7605]

Looks like Rel Astra is 'changed' or gone?!?! Super glad to see Medegia BACK after the LGG erased it! Aerdaak? (north of Rel Astra) ....Any way -- the only important thing is to NOT support wotc by purchasing any of this apocrypha! Everything from wotc post 2007 (many say post 2000) is apocrypha and should not be considered valid. Support Paizo & Pathfinder. EDIT: Also, in a world where we have the Anna Meyer map -- why would we EVER acknowledge any other?!?!???

[@lordfulmine]

I came here to say this, also they specifically have the great kingdom on the map with Ahlissa and Aerdiaak (north province?) listed separately so maybe a reboot of the timeline. But then Rel Astra should be there, poor Lord Drax can’t catch a break Edit- on the map linked in the description Rel Astra is still where it should be

[@leejackson623]

There are several references to major adventures on the map too... Temple of EE, Tomb of Horrors etc.... Which is interesting 🤔

[@DUNGEONRAIDER-ADD1E]

Okay here goes - first some history context - On the day I turned 15, my awesome, fabulous, hardworking mother bought me the Advanced Dungeons & Dragons 1st Edition books, ($80 was a lot of money), they were the MM, PHB, and DM's Guide. I have never played 2e, 3e, 3.5e or the 4e abomination, "(cute little spell cards you got there)", and no I don’t own any 5e books, and no I will not own any future edition books either. The one 3.0e core rule book I have (unwanted & unread book from an ebay lot), I use as a 'book end'. Take it from someone who had to stop playing my favorite game ever and go to work and put food on the table. I loved playing the game as a teenager and a few years after, but times change. Fast forward 40 years later, and I am just now starting to dust off all my old collection of gaming utensils, and yes I tried to read a few '2e splat books', (a bunch of stuff & nonsense), unnecessary drivel which in the end took away from the TONE of the original game. In my time as an enthusiastic player of games, I have never found a more brilliant, profound and at times deeply chilling (depending on the DM) game than Advanced Dungeons & Dragons 1st Edition. This game and Dungeons & Dragons BECMI are meant for the ages and will always endure, while 2e to 5e and beyond will always be with us "like bad weather", always trying to but 'never accomplishing' what has been created in the past. They simply dont have the imagination the original founders had, and its all about money now. After Joe started talking about changes in the upper left-hand corner, I shut it off, (sorry Joe). This is not the World of Greyhawk!!! My best advice for wotc is this, leave World of Greyhawk alone, cuz your just 'embarrassing yourselves' and bound to lose money in this endeavor. "So go away wotc, and don't go away mad, (nose breathing only), JUST GO AWAY"!!!! Want another cliché? “The more they overthink the plumbing, the easier it is to stop up the drain.” - Scotty Please give generously to Joseph Bloch for his continued pursuit of the riddle to Advanced Dungeon & Dragons 1st Edition!!! Great Work Joe- please continue to expose Thank you for listening to my RANT!!!

[@scott4092]

When I saw Sultinate of Ekbir, I immediately thought maybe the Caliph was overthrown and there's turmoil and whatnot. 🤔hmm. Yeah I'm a bit more intrigued now, dangit!

[@rikk319]

I mean, the original name was a bit silly, considering a caliph is the Islamic equivalent of a pope. Calling an eastern Oerik nation, say, "The Papacy of Ulek" would be just as silly. I don't want real-world religions polluting my pantheistic fantasy world.

[@tazmokhan7614]

Where are the Wolf and Tiger Nomad lands? And wth are all these different lands and names I don't recognize????

[@grillwizard]

This is simply great, besides any omissions or name changes. It puts Greyhawk "officially" back on the scene after many years. It is now available to people that didn't know it existed and will begin to search for more information about it. That's where the online community, that have kept the setting alive through the years, has to welcome those newcomers. Less criticism and purism, and more "Hey, there´s also these other sources available. Check them out!"

[@roberthradek7100]

Though it's a later addition, Sybarate Island is missing.

[@JazzyBassy]

I am pretty sure they are rebooting to 576CY to make it as sandboxy and free as WoG folio.

[@devinthunderstrike]

Wait, Blackmore is in Greyhawk? That means Mystara is Greyhawk in the future, right? Wasn't Blackmore the precursor of Mystara?

[@rocketraccoon1976]

A different Blackmoor was always on Oerth, probably as a nod to Arneson. They never did anything with it though. Mystara's Blackmoor is far superior, with lots of official material and history.

[@dryuriuspapers2020]

They may not actually own all the IP for greyhawk.

[@johnedgar7956]

Now THERE'S a thought. I wonder if you're right about that.

[@dryuriuspapers2020]

@@johnedgar7956 I had heard through the grapevine that some of the greyhawk stuff was still owned by Gygax when he died and was then willed to various people. I don't think WotC or Hasbro were in the will.

[@chriscotgrove9674]

My first question on seeing this map would be: how many 5E DM's are running hexcrawls?

[@michael14195]

One video said that they've improved the 5e rules for hexcrawls. We'll see.

[@JazzyBassy]

It’s one of the most requested terms for guidance on in Reddit and RPG blogs. Tomb of Annihilation gave many DM’s and Players a taste and people wanted more. West Marches also became a popular playstyle which used hexcrawling.

[@N843M]

They took out the Rovers of the Barrens? Dang it.

[@GreyhawkGrognard]

Or renamed it and the actual Rovers are still there.

[@ladylandseer928]

I don't expect to much from WotC about Greyhawk. I think they will republish stuff from other sourcebooks only with new stats for the new game mechanics.

[@cameronpearce5943]

I love how Flann looks like a giant hexagon

[@danielboggs2013]

Joe, I'm guessing that WotC changed the name to Arn because they no longer own the Blackmoor trademark - it is now owned by the Arneson family - and they probably wanted to respect that. Interestingly, one of the illustrations in the early 1970's Beyond this Point be Dragons manuscript has an illustration with a roadsign pointing to a place called Arn.

[@SaltToSnow]

What book is the best resource for learning about the greyhawk setting?

[@GreyhawkGrognard]

The Gold Box. Currently available on DriveThru, called "World of Greyhawk Fantasy Game Setting (1e)". The edition is pretty irrelevant, though; the lore and maps are what's important.

[@user-Brian_Gregory]

Remember, Greyhawk was the "default" setting for 3rd Edition. WotC had a poor grasp on what Gygax was going for with the setting then (as a history buff, Gygax loaded his setting with lots of European parallels- none of which came across in 3rd Edition, which tried to make it more generic); I wonder if the current team working on this will be actual Greyhawk fans, or just people cashing a check...

[@bjornh4664]

...or people checking a box.

[@miscprojects9662]

Crazy they included the flamboyant flayers and altered orcs as guild options.

[@cameronpearce5943]

Long time Realms fan neophyte Greyhawk fan, where was Vecna’s rotted tower located? In 5e content it says Nyv Dyr, but I believe it was well past the mountains to the south west of the lake wasn’t it?

[@lorcandruid]

Great video analysis Joe, great how quick you got in there! Vey pleased to see WotC kept the spirit of Darlene's irreplaceable map.

[@-MCMLXXII-]

A lot of these changes might be related to asll the new playable races that are now going to be in the game?

[@phasestar7787]

Aerdiaak?

[@jimmd68]

Saw that too!

[@maximus3160]

Was hoping they'd leave Greyhawk alone. No such luck...

[@user-gw1sh9qc2s]

Hi Grognard. Thankfully, Wolverine resolved (and consequentially destroyed) the Kelvin timeline in the move, "Days of Future Past."

[@RommelsAsparagus]

Call me old fashioned. You can't touch the Darlene map, nor should anyone try. No one talks about Mona Lisa v5.0.

[@RetiredNavyWill]

The 576 timeline would make sense if they had not kept the name Ahlissa, and did not rename the North Province as well. Was Ahlissa not post-war?

[@scottmorgan5212]

They are probably going witj 576 so they can capitali$e on the Greyhawk Wars. Big 100 dollar book, idk, world wide competitions in their VTT, loads of additional buy in, etc.

[@FaoladhTV]

For myself, what happens in the far west of the map is not very interesting to me as far as my campaigns would go. There's some interest due to lore matters, especially the Events of the Flanaess period (577-579 or so), my interest in which goes little further than when you and I discussed in email briefly a discrepancy between your extended Events of the Flanaess series and the originally published ones involving what happens with the Tiger Nomads/Chakyik as related to Ekbir. In general changing things from a Caliphate to a Sultanate doesn't affect me in the slightest. It just seems like a peculiar and somewhat boring hill to die on. Since they're getting rid of the exonyms, I'm a little surprised that they still call them the "Bandit Kingdoms", but maybe that will change by the time things are set in paper and ink. Aside from that, I do wonder what is going to happen to the Rhennee, a group of people that Gygax seemed to be quite partial to. Anyway, they're clearly setting things in the 576 era. That's great. I also see that this opens up the possibility of an Oerth-based CRPG like Baldur's Gate, which latter series seems to have garnered some good reviews. Personally, I'm not all that happy that it would incorporate 5E systems, but nothing in this world is perfect.

[@PatriceBoivin]

I wonder if the folio will mention the Underdark now that they teleported it to Forgotten Realms

[@derekburge5294]

Renaming, reimagining, rehashing to make it *safe.* I'm perfectly happy to just ignore their updates.

[@lukejw11]

I like that 6th edition is going with Greyhawk after the last 3 editions focussing on Forgotten Realms.

[@MatthewFenn1517]

The Rovers change comes from LGG which WoTC published in 2000. The Rovers of the Barrens call themselves the "People of the Plentiful Huntinglands" (LGG p. 94), hence why WoTC chose the name Hunting Lands on the new map. Words like "paynims, barbarians, nomads, rovers" seem to be removed for being exonyms. Where there wasn't a canonical endonym they've invented one.

[@rikk319]

It always makes more sense for a nation to be named after what they call themselves, not what some other nation calls them.

[@Raycheetah]

@@rikk319 Depends on who drew the map, dunnit? =0[.]o=

[@doltBmB]

@@rikk319 no it doesn't, plenty of people are known primarily for how others saw them, for example the mongols and the huns

[@MatthewFenn1517]

Actually, it's not only LGG. It's the '83 Box Set that has that name. Check the Rover's entry.

[@Octarinewolf]

Isn't there an artifact Invulnerable Coat of Arn? I'm somewhat disappointed that the map didn't get extended eastwards to include the Shattered Empire

[@GreyhawkGrognard]

I mapped out the whole of Oerik on the blog many years ago, and I'm slowly re-doing it with better maps.

[@davidjarkeld2333]

My thoughts on this are a little conflicted. However, in the real word countries or areas of land change names due to conquest, political change or just changes in language patterns, so as long as the lore associated with this is good it should be fine.

[@danielboggs2013]

I think the map is set in CY 624, in a world in which Iuz has been defeated or banished.

[@WilliamSlayer]

Gotta have new blood IMO. I love that they are bringing Greyhawk to the masses. 👍

[@coachlarry6773]

Wouldn’t be the worst thing to reset the original timeline pre-GH Wars

[@Ironcaster]

Keep us informed about all things greyhawk.

[@WhiskeyPatriot]

I'd have to keep my players capped at level 12 and drift them into new characters at about level 5-8 so I could transition the old ones into the world as NPCs

[@Parmandur]

The Hunting Lands are what the Rovers call their land in the original text, so it's the same thing as using the Wolf and Tiger Nomads own name for themselves.

[@michaelwhite8691]

I am Grognard... After 2nd ED doesn't register for me -smile-

[@acamon]

Love hearing about Greyhawk in all it's forms. It's pretty clear from your videos where your personal tastes lie, but your still able to talk about the various eras and incarnations of the setting. Plenty of people don't care for Living Greyhawk, but it isn't taboo, and many fans don't even consider FtA' canon', so another iteration isn't going to spoil anyone's fun. I think lots of us are interested in hearing what WOTC do with the setting, even if it's just an overview to think "yup, that's as bad as I expected" I'm sure if there's interesting bits you'll have things to say about them, and if it's terrible, I'm sure you won't waste much time on it. It's your channel and I trust your judgement!

[@nordicmaelstrom4714]

The map looks fine to me but I will be forthcoming about saying that nothing wotc puts out for Greyhawk or in general will ever see the light of day in my games. I refuse to allow anything wotc related in my games. I expected you to tear into them but that is okay. We cannot be negative all the time. Good video!

[@dandekker8242]

Prelacy of Almor is another clue that it's pre-Greyhawk Wars. This is a great update to the Darlene map; the geographical features helping the eye understand is a step forward from the construction paper look of Darlene's original (and I mean ORIGINAL - hers was a trailblazer for sure). The fact that it's in the DMG as an EXAMPLE of a campaign setting, along with Greyhawk City being an EXAMPLE of a campaign hub makes me think that they're doing a great justice and handing the setting over to the PLAYERS (DMs too), rather than developing it themselves for churning out everlasting content. I'm optimistic about this, and looking forward to the writeups they have. And great catch on Blackmoor --> Arn(eson). I missed that.

[@raymondhemphill146]

LET’S KEEP GREYHAWK ALIVE!

[@docnecrotic]

Ah, more Wizbro dread. Thanks.

[@sirellyn]

I won't be looking to anything "official" greyhawk after 3e. At best they might have a good idea or two. (I'm not even counting on that though.)

[@Taranchule]

Calling it now: they're taking it back to 576, and rewriting history for "MODERN AUDIENCES".

[@CountAdolfo]

They do tend to "Wokewash" everything, these days, don't they?

[@RPGrandPa]

They won't rewrite my Greyhawk.

[@BorgPrincess]

Or, it may be a map drawn by a cartographer from Zeif, where they dispute the Ekbir claim to preeminence, therefore calling it but a Sultanate. Furthermore, please keep three things in mind: 1. Gygax seems to have tried to make sure that every. single. nation. had its own... "governmental title"?... except in those cases when he clearly went for a matching set (like Cruski, Frusti and Schnai). So dropping in a caliphate does make as much sense as having an empire (which for about a millennium meant a realm with the ruler blessed and preferred over all others by (the Christian) God, as asserted by the pope). 2. In our world, there have been times when more than one caliph claimed the title, just as there were times when there were several popes and emperors (a caliph falling somewhere in the middle between those two). 3. Using this for flavour is quite an opportunity, I personally think, and evoking a whole caravan's load of adventure ideas - which is all Gary's naming intended to do. 😊

[@andrewthomas7202]

You do understand that they will engage in revisionist history and they absolutely will change everything they deem problematic. This will be the DEI Greyhawk

[@dereklong801]

Anything washing away the pollution of Wars and Ashes is welcome.

[@jdavis414]

Old Greyhawk is immutable. If the new material is revisionist effluence the folks I know will disregard it. They own a license not the hobby! In the off chance some outstanding material is released St. Cuthbert will smile....if not it gets a wack from the cudgel!

[@vision2297]

Rumour has it that the setting will be based in 591...

[@GreyhawkGrognard]

Given some of the names on the map (countries that exist in 576 but not in 591), that wouldn't make a lick of sense.

[@kathykoenig6512]

So much for dodging a bullet.

[@andrewparsons2391]

I don't have any real problems with most of the name changes, as they're mostly "what the people who live there would call their own nations", though there are a couple of "? I guess is doesn't HURT anything?" cases like Arn and Aerdiaak. As someone who got into Greyhawk in the late 80 and thus had little problem with FTA shortly after changing things and actually enjoyed the FTA/Post FTA Era, am a bit sad that they're clearly resetting the timeline back and erasing all that happened since then. I understand that I'm a relative rarity and that this would make others happy.

[@Satori2046]

It's a very nice looking map, I like it. Thanks for the video

[@RobOfTheNorth2001]

This map is CY 576. Apart from the Caliphate rename, all the other names were changed so that the nations are what people called the nation, rather than what the ‘civilized’ world called them. Which was frankly a mistake make in the original setting. The Snow Barbarians or Wolf Nomads would not call their lands that. Same goes for Scarlet Brotherhood.

[@GreyhawkGrognard]

I'm reserving final judgment until I see the DMG. But WotC's actions of late have not given me any reason to give them the benefit of the doubt.

[@DavidShepheard]

Thanks for the video. I like the name "Shar". Even if the Scarlet Brotherhood come out of the closet and massively expand their territory, they would still need to have their own way of talking about their territories, old and new. So I think that "Shar" is good for that piece of land. And naming the land, rather than the faction, removes the spoiler-aspect from the map. So I'd say it is a good move for newbie DMs introducing newbie players to Greyhawk. They can have their unsuspecting players switch to Greyhawk from a world they understand better (like maybe Forgotten Realms) and they won't see what is coming when they decide to go down to Shar to see what is going on. As for the reason for swapping out a caliph for a sultan, that might be more down to wanting to keep the Greyhawk section of the DMG as compact as possible, rather than some sort of concern about the word caliph. If WotC use both words, they need to define both words in the glossary. Defining both caliph and sultan for one single location in the example D&D setting would make the glossary longer. And someone may have argued that was inefficient. If they merge both Islamic-inspired rulers into a shared title, they only need to give one definition that covers two places. 5e GMs designing their own settings can then plonk down sultans in areas of sand. It's great that you know the background to a lot of this lore, but I think the new DMG needs to be something that makes it feel as easy as possible for GMs to knock up their own content. Don't forget the reboot policy of old settings, that was announced just before Spelljammer and Dragonlance were published. Dragonlance was used in the examples in the statements WotC released. If you look past the "WotC hate old books" stuff that some click-baiters were pushing, the actual message from WotC was: "We love the old books, but they should be read for fun - not be DMs homework". Spelljammer was given a major reboot, but Dragonlance was pulled back in time to just before the time of DL1 Dragons of Despair. Given that WotC seem to be rebooting 1e adventures into 5.2 / 2024 D&D versions it probably makes sense to mostly take Greyhawk back to the very start of what it was, and make a few tweaks, if they think there are any legal issues. I would encourage you to spend a small amount of time studying the 5e Dragonlance product to see how WotC made a map of Ansalon, but also zoomed in on the area around where Lord Soth lives. If we get another big Greyhawk product, after the DMG comes out, I think it's going to be all about who the big bad evil guys are and where they live. I would love to hear your take on the top locations ripe for 5e reboot products. I think you might be right with the renaming of Blackmoor to Arn. And it might be possible that a couple of other areas have been renamed to clear out the "do we own this or does someone else own this?" IPs. I know that Peter Adkison tried to make things good with Gary Gygax and Dave Arneson, after AEG helped him take over TSR. There were a number of early D&D creators who got pushed out of Greyhawk by Lorainne Williams. Len Lakofka was publishing stuff via Dragonsfoot (and gave his unpublished works to the Lakofka Archive) and Rob Kuntz has some stuff that tied into early Greyhawk. I'm going to be very curious to see if there is a small "Beyond the Flanaess" section in the DMG. I'd love to see if the Sundered Empire will return. But I'd also love to see what the 5e WotC designers would make of places like Zindia. People have complained about the DA map for decades and this new version of Oerth could be a chance to clean up the map of Oerth. As they seem to say on Twitter now: "This video made my day somewhat more enjoyable and I look forward to seeing more content along the same lines." 😉

[@darnellsimpson4413]

As long as they don't tamper with Celene.

[@raghnallmacaodh3220]

New DM guide dropped... set in 576CY

[@GreyhawkGrognard]

Yes. I've done a couple videos on it.

[@CelestianGC]

I really like the style of the map seeming to use the spirit of the original.

[@SpiritWolf1966]

I enjoy all of Greyhawk Grognard videos

[@xgnardprime]

4 minutes into your Goodbye WotC Mayday 2023 video you said you wouldn't buy anything from WOTC, even with Greyhawk, the one exception being if someone wants to sell you a used copy. I hope you got that used, but could honestly care less if you had to buy it new, since authentic Greyhawk loyal to Gary Gygax's vision is obviously your specialty area of expertise.

[@GreyhawkGrognard]

This is out in the wild for free. My decision not to purchase anything from WotC has not changed.

[@mojpiesto]

He got it from a website, he says as much and links it. He also keeps talking about how the material is not yet released outside of the map, did you even watch the video?

[@xgnardprime]

@@GreyhawkGrognard @mojpiesto good

[@xgnardprime]

@@mojpiesto @GreyhawkGrognard I didn't hear everything in the video rolling, but later read the description and clicked on the (see more) link and the link to the freebie enworld. Sorry for making assumptions.

[@pedromatiasmullervannordt9659]

aerdiraak doesnt even sound oeredian (aerdi, nyrond, medegia, etc) ...