New Knife Maker? Here Is How To Heat Treat A File Or Rasp Knife | Shop Talk Tuesday Episode 89

[@krissteel4074]

Just with some electric ovens, they can go through a ramp-cycle to bring them up to temp and then their thermostat kicks in, so depending on the unit its sometimes worth to get one of those little stand alone, mechanical gauge thermometers just to sit in there to give you an idea of where its at. Or pre-heat the tempering oven to make sure you're good to go once your steel is down to room temperature- also its a good idea to do it straight away, don't leave it overnight or anything (general broad advice for any steel: carbon, high alloy or stainless) Its sometimes worth your while to look at K-type thermocouples and a little digital reader, they're generally very cheap and somewhere between $20-80 depending on the unit and source, some thermocouples are better than others as are some readers. But if you're not familiar with how steels look at temp with your gear, lighting conditions and general experience it'll give you a better idea. The K-types read accurately up to about 1100C with some small amount of deviation (2-5%), after that you percentile deviation gets a bit wider and bit less accurate, but for anything in the range of most carbon steels they do ok. After that you need to look at N-types and readers which are more accurate and more expensive. Like anything, your gear may vary greatly from someone elses so you do need a decent ballpark just get an idea of what its capable of and the most low tech way- throw a piece in there, harden, temper and break it just to figure out what its doing, the grain structure and how well it worked. Then base a repeatable process off that.

[@theriversexperience9383]

Great info as always Kris. I hope everyone reads this.

[@krissteel4074]

@@theriversexperience9383 You're welcome mate. I'll add the following when it comes to quench oils that I've seen and used over the years. essentially you want to get a proper oil for the steel. Canola oil gets used a lot by some people, but its really only good for a couple of steels, particularly 5160, Sup9 and 52100. Those ones seem to really take to it well and you should be able to get full hardness out of them with just Canola. Its not so good for anything else, by that I mean it will harden your steel 'probably', but you might loose a couple of points of HRC off it and that's not the worst thing in the world and your mileage may vary there. The big problem Canola suffers is stability, one knife, once in a while it'll be ok, you do 10 though and its going to get kind of wobbly Medium Speed Oil, worth keeping a bucket of this around if you're working on alloy steels- O1 through to O7, 5160, L6 52100, Sup9, Hitachi Blue paper, most of the non-stainless bearing steels. Essentially any of the deep hardening steels that are full of other elements to make sure they harden all the way through to get a uniform result, most of the Houghtons and Parks oils are very good. The other reason is if you're using a 'mystery' steel, if you've tried it in Canola, Fast Quench and its not working, wobbly or won't harden- give the medium a go and you might just find it works. Fast Speed Oil, this is for your basic carbon steels and low alloy tool steels like W1, W2, 80CRV2 and Hitachi White Paper. This stuff is formulated to be just about 10% less brutal than a water or brine quench, but also to disperse heat rapidly for those shallow hardening steels. So with that in mind give yourself a bit of extra thickness to work with and absorb the shock of a fast oil. Don't go yanking it out too soon either, count to 10 while agitating the blade up and down to make sure its well below those critical temps. You'll still have 5-10sec after that to ram it into a straightening jig if you've got one set up beforehand Anyway, hope that's of use to some people too

[@ALLENNEWLIN1979]

I want to be able to see temps in my forge. The only thermometer I have is for my quench oil but from what I understand I like my grain structure when I broke pieces after quench and haven’t been able to break that which has had a proper temper. It’s like trying to break a pry bar or something. I use only a forge and vegetable oil and a toaster over and seem to get okay results for a novice. My EDC was one of my 1st knives and the edge seems to be prone to chipping against rocks and pavement but I try to avoid those type of collisions best I can haha.

[@wiggsan]

That was THE best explanation of heat treating a file knife, and why, that I've seen. The recap at the end was perfect.... instills the material in my porous brain. LOL! Thanks Erick!!!

[@simp3204]

I made sure my brother-in-law is a part-time farrier so I have access to lots of used farrier rasps for the price of a beer and a burger. Loving the videos and the information!

[@123gonow]

Wow I think this was the first time I made the first comment ! This channel is a blast still learning a bunch here Erick, thanks for taking the time to educate here !

[@alpalmieri8644]

Great video,I've made some stock removal knives and sent them out for heat treatment.I have a forge and anvil now so this was very helpful. Thanks.

[@brianwessel2291]

I must admit I haven't commented enough on your videos...but it is time to do so...just wanted to let you know I have thoroughly enjoyed all of the ones I have watched(and have watched quite a lot of them) and have learned something from each and every one. Thank you for what do...you have a great open and honest way of presenting information and sharing your knowledge and experience. Keep up the amazing work! You appear to still be a fairly you guy so it will be interesting to watch how you grow and evolve in your craft in years to come! All the best!!!

[@theriversexperience9383]

Thank you for the kind words! I'm glad that the videos have been helpful.

[@troyadams5970]

Excellent teaching skills, always detailed explaining.. Not one but two things up

[@shootermcgavin991]

This was very helpful. Liked and subbed. Thanks!

[@theriversexperience9383]

Thank you!

[@TheOGfrenchy]

Just wanted to say thanks for your videos incredibly informative seeing your finished knives tells me you know what you’re doing I just made my first knife out of a file this weekend definitely won’t win a beauty contest but are used the information in your video to do it and for my first attempt I’m pretty pleased thanks again for the Content

[@theriversexperience9383]

That is awesome! Exited that you have taken the leap to make your first knife. I am glad that I was able to help in any way during the process.

[@TheOGfrenchy]

Wow you responded! That is too cool! Do you sell your knives? If so where would I go to buy one!?

[@TheOGfrenchy]

Never mind I found your web page! I will save up to buy one to help support you and your channel! Thanks again!

[@bobbygrantham4410]

Once again a down to earth video thanks

[@jimtaylor6663]

Great information, and very thoroughly explained. Thank you sir!

[@Jeffrose_]

Very helpful for me. I am about to harden my nicholson file knife tonight when it starts getting dark outside. I don't have any thermometer for this so wish me luck. I built the forge myself out of an old 7 gallon airtank. 😢😮😊

[@jedhancock5611]

Thanks for continuing with this education. Appreciate your time.

[@jaisonlt86]

You nailed it! Thanks man!

[@brianwessel2291]

Your videos are great....keep up the good work!

[@nickminderman7380]

Just got my rasp in the mail last night. Haha. I’ve made around 15 knives now but this will be first rasp. Good info

[@markdarlington9914]

Great comparisons thank you

[@selfmadeworkshop4324]

Really well explained, learning alot from you and really helping with my first build so thanks alot man 👍👊

[@theriversexperience9383]

Glad to hear it!

[@davidpugh4527]

Thanks Eric I've been wanting to make a farriers rasp knife for a while now very good information

[@klausschwarzenholzer2353]

Wow 🤩 very informativ Video thx a lot for that 🍀🙏😎🙏🍀

[@Splash111]

Thank you ! New subscriber. Your video's are excellent. Natural teacher.

[@theriversexperience9383]

Glad you like them!

[@DaveThorp-wn6yr]

What i just did is tooka old wought iron chain link drew out and used a ferrier rasp in middle w/wought on both sides san mai i guess is this going a whole different heart since i did bring it to weldingtemp ?

[@ALLENNEWLIN1979]

I like using files because I work out of a cabinet shop and they give them to me by the dozens. The knives turn out pretty good imo. I do forge them to shape before grinding. I am wondering why some folks say to go into temper cycle immediately after quenching and others don’t seam to care? Does it really make a noticeable difference?

[@JeffGriffith-k3x]

I’m learning how to make a knife. If the rasp is already tempered why would you forge it.

[@vincentcocuzza8679]

Another great video showing how to do this part of the craft!!! Hey what does putting that piece of angle inside the forge do?? Is it for more of a even heat or what? Let me know please because my little forge I made is fine and does the job but I can’t ever get a even heat on the bevels.

[@theriversexperience9383]

It works as a baffle, it keeps the flame from direct contact with the steel so that it heats the steel more evenly.

[@vincentcocuzza8679]

@@theriversexperience9383 got it and now that you said it makes perfect sense! Thank you for responding and can’t wait to watch the next big series or builds!

[@beardedwoodpecker]

Full view/like and subd, will try to make a scraper from file for woodturning:) Yiannis (Athens Greece)

[@deanscott9876]

Another informative video👍I’ve been following you for some time and have definitely benefited from your knowledge. So thanks for that! The one question I would like to ask is… Is there any benefit to flipping the blade over each time it is removed to do the colour check, for a more uniform soak ? Since you are just bringing the steel to 1500.

[@theriversexperience9383]

Because the flame isn't directly on the blade, you don't technically need to flip the blade.

[@nathanmartin6002]

lol flames ;)

[@robmcgraw9897]

Great information! Thank you for sharing it with everyone. I haven't used Parks 50 yet. Is it worth the extra cash?

[@theriversexperience9383]

It is absolutely worth it.

[@jerrytalley802]

Please forgive me if this is a silly question. I’m just starting to watch your videos again, you mentioned the rasp is good for beginners since we don’t have to forge/quench, etc. This video, you’re heating/ treating this knife. What are the advantages doing this compared to a beginner that only oven tempers it? Sorry if these are such elementary questions, I know ZERO ABOUT KNIFE MAKING, but very interested. Great channel

[@theriversexperience9383]

The only really advantage to annealing and reheating then quenching it, is that the steal is easier to drill through when it's annealed and softer. That's about it. It will be a great knife even if you just temper it.

[@kentconn1285]

Does it matter what brand of farriers rasp that you use. Do the blades keep a good edge?

[@theriversexperience9383]

You can google which Rasp are better for knife making. You want to look for brands that aren't just case hardened.

[@4yoHI]

Hi Eric, what's the size of this baffle ? and thanks for this informative video !

[@theriversexperience9383]

The sides are 1.5" and it is 9" long.

[@4yoHI]

Thank you !

[@rondangeli4175]

very iinstructive

[@martindesrocher4528]

are you talking about degrees F or C !??

[@theriversexperience9383]

Fahrenheit is what I'm talking about.

[@jerrytalley802]

Question 2, I’m color blind so can’t distinguish the difference in red/orange. Is it hopeless for the kind/quality of knives I could ever attempt to make

[@theriversexperience9383]

Nope, all you need is a heat treating oven and it will pretty much eliminate the need to see the color as a reference for temp. The oven will make sure it's good to go.

[@bobbyhempel1513]

You can use an electronic laser thermometer just point the thermometer at your steel and it will tell you what the temperature is.

[@NastyNate-fn6od]

Thanks bro, is that a piece of angle iron in the forged that you had the blade under? If so what’s the purpose of it? Also will this work for 1084 steel ?

[@theriversexperience9383]

That's the baffle so that the flame isn't directly hitting the blade. For 1084 just bring it up to non-magnetic then go a hair brighter than that and quench it in peanut oil or AAA oil.

[@NastyNate-fn6od]

@@theriversexperience9383 thanks for the info bro, and thanks for the heat treat video !!!

[@timjohle8876]

I have never used Parks,,,what if any temperature was the Parks at. And does it have to be Parks for a rasp. Can it be Canola oil and so on ? And Holy Shit,,,I didn’t know you saw me in my cave.

[@theriversexperience9383]

Parks 50 is nice because you just keep it at room temperature. You could use Peanut oil warmed up to 120 degrees if that's all you have. It should be a fast quenching oil if possible.

[@timjohle8876]

@@theriversexperience9383 Knice to know thanks brother.