NEW LONDON BUS TENDERS *EXPLAINED* Routes 258, 293, 412, 415, 434, 677, 685 & U5

[@MostlyBuses1]

New video out soon: kzbin.info/www/bejne/eKfQaXyqaZWMbMUsi=h35d-cEVVnXkiLm6 0:00 Intro 0:30 Route 258 1:15 Route 293 1:41 Routes 412/685 2:32 Route 415 3:00 Route 434 3:37 Route 677 4:05 Route U5 4:42 Extras 5:00 Thanks for watching

[@TESL1.10]

Honestly man been a fan since around a year ago and honestly proud of you making such a good local kind of community within your channel. Especially now where your comments reach around 108 where 25 of them are my comments😂😂😂

[@MostlyBuses1]

Thanks so much! And yeah I really appreciate the comments (and idk if this sounds sarcastic or not but I genuinely do)

[@TESL1.10]

@@MostlyBuses1 na not sarcastic at all

[@TESL1.10]

0:18 the old Johnston 100 font😍

[@MostlyBuses1]

@@TESL1.10 I thought the old 1s looked different in the older font

[@TESL1.10]

@@MostlyBuses1 that font is just so nostalgic for me, whenever I look into it's soul and zone out I genuinely get the feelings I used to have at childhood (might sound creepy lol) The only close johnston 100 fonts I have are the leftover 102 2 digit HVs (not all of them) and the SL1, though SL1 wasn't back in my childhood so it doesn't count lol

[@AG_Buses]

Great observations bro!🔥

[@MostlyBuses1]

@@AG_Buses thanks!!

[@bloxtronic4785]

nice to have 258 and 142 now both on metroline

[@MostlyBuses1]

@@bloxtronic4785 yeah it is

[@JAmoahGranite58]

@@MostlyBuses1 It could be the case that RATP we're very disappointing to encounter issues like these spectacular scenery, 142 and 258 definitively don't struggle with a loss after Arriva London shuts down in 2018 while experience provides an array of GR routes until the garage was thrown away. 142 does 5 year then 258 7 year contract did not bid anymore.

[@stevenclark1883]

Metroline has the worst drivers - I have to use Route 140 every day & they never arrive within the timetable!

[@MostlyBuses1]

@stevenclark1883 You can't really blame the drivers for that though

[@MostlyBuses1]

When I was watching this video when it was premiering, some random people who were sat behind me on the 115 started talking about my KZbin channel behind my back (although they were talking normally so I could literally hear them...)

[@TESL1.10]

that is defo the best feeling to have

[@TESL1.10]

what were they saying abt your channel😀

[@MostlyBuses1]

​@@TESL1.10Yeah it definitely was... I was wondering if they were looking at my phone for the whole journey...

[@MostlyBuses1]

​@@TESL1.10I heard them talking about my channel and once I turned my brightness down and literally heard them describe what I just did, I turned around and asked why they were looking at my phone. The person to the left (who was the one watching me) said he just wanted to subscribe to my channel. He said he had a channel too and showed me it (I hope I'm not the subject of his next video lol). They thought my channel was called "Moodybuses" and tried to find it but failed.

[@Red223]

​​​​@@MostlyBuses1Metroline is killing RATP so badly, this entire year, it's been Metroline winning all the RATP routes and RATP only winning the 31. With them losing routes 266 and 258, I guess they went back to bankruptcy. METROLINE REVENGE CONTINUESS SSS.....

[@shubhamuprit]

Great video I appreciate the work ur doing keep up 👍😄😀😃🙂☺️

[@MostlyBuses1]

@@shubhamuprit thanks!!

[@shubhamuprit]

Ur welcome :)

[@TochBusesGamesLondon]

258 is finnaly going to be joining the 142 nice.

[@MostlyBuses1]

yeah

[@zfs.59]

albeit at different garages. The 142/258 did use to be Arriva operated at the infamous closed up Garston (GR) which had nefarious maintenance just like Thornton Heath (TH)’s and Barking (DX)’s. Then both routes ended up at RATP together at Edgware (BT) and the 258 moved to RP 3 years ago and the 142 stayed put. The 142 came to Metroline last year at Edgware (EW) and the 258 will soon come to Metroline at Harrow Weald (HD), two different garages but the same operator. It’s the same for the 28/31/328 which were Tower Transit operated under the same garage Westbourne Park (X) and then the 28/31/328 are now all Metroline under different garages, 28 at WJ, 31 at HT and 328 at W. Would make sense to place the 31 at W or WJ and the 28/328 is fine where it is as their garages are close to their routes but the 31 at HT is stretched as HT is only close to the Camden end

[@TochBusesGamesLondon]

@zfs.59 Ngl, what happened to Arriva London NorthWest?

[@ms_1931]

Surprised ML even gained the 258 as most garages in NW are full W full, EW full, WJ full, AC full. I thought HD was full too but apparently not as 258 is going there, I thought it would go to G on the day it got announced it was going to Metroline. I’m pretty sure HD can only fit like 6 buses we’ll see what they will do.

[@zfs.59]

@@ms_1931G is too far for the 258, basically the same deadrun route using the M1 would be used if it went to G as the deadrun to RP goes via the M1 which is why hybrids are banned from doing the 258 at RP. The 258 will fit in HD, it’s likely the 292 will have to move out to PB for the remainder of its contract and PB does have some space for the route after they lost the 34 then the 125

[@TESL1.10]

0:34 YESSSS

[@MostlyBuses1]

ikr

[@LondonBuses124]

will you eventually do a video on the 99, 269, 401, 422, B16, SL3 etc basically the 18/01/2025 changes?

[@MostlyBuses1]

@@LondonBuses124 Yes, I do most bus changes

[@LondonBuses124]

@@MostlyBuses1 Okay ty

[@MohammedboufaslovesTFLForever]

wait is BYD enviro 200 ev is still in production?

[@MostlyBuses1]

No, except for the tri axle version apparently

[@MohammedboufaslovesTFLForever]

@@MostlyBuses1 did it end the production

[@MostlyBuses1]

@@MohammedboufaslovesTFLForever Yes, except for the tri axle version

[@cooldude12-q9b]

U know what vehicle 258 will use for new contract

[@MostlyBuses1]

@@cooldude12-q9b it's not confirmed but probably Gemini 2s

[@IbrahimaBalde-m3f]

When is the route U4 gonna change into electric with metroline They said it was gonna turn electric on the 26th October but it hasn't yet

[@MostlyBuses1]

UX isn't electric yet so they won't be electrifying the U1, U2, U3 or U4 yet. The 26th of October was the start of the new contract which doesn't mean anything with regards to electrification.

[@thenil0011]

It was, they pushed it back to 2025.

[@IbrahimaBalde-m3f]

​@@MostlyBuses1 Ok thanks for letting me know because I was confused

[@Londonbusenthusiast353]

Can I just ask u something,how do u find all this information out,it’s surprising

[@MostlyBuses1]

there's a few websites such as lots.org and a blog that also posts tender results

[@TESL1.10]

no footage of the skl buses.. I wonder why

[@MostlyBuses1]

@@TESL1.10 There's no way I'm going all the way to Debden to catch the 677 lol! That being said though I did catch the 631, 651 and 606 last week (I got taken back to North Woolwich on the 651 lol)

[@TESL1.10]

@@MostlyBuses1 i'm jk with you😂

[@MostlyBuses1]

@@TESL1.10 ik lol

[@MohammedboufaslovesTFLForever]

I think the 412/685 could use the BYD BD11s, but it hasn’t been confirmed yet

[@MostlyBuses1]

Yeah it's not confirmed. I do hope they order something other than Electroliners since they're getting a lot of them in Croydon

[@OmarZamel-pv7ig]

@@MostlyBuses1bro 250 has started to Introduce electroliners along with 417 have a zero vision that I saw earlier and 50 already has some (I barely see B5LH g2s)

[@MostlyBuses1]

@@OmarZamel-pv7ig Yeah the 250 has like 2 per day. The 289 is apparently converting next year so that's nice

[@zfs.59]

@@OmarZamel-pv7igyeah there’s less G2s on the 50 these days especially on weekends where you’ll find only 2-3 of them on the weekends but in the weekdays there is still quite a few G2s out

[@PGATProductions]

@@MostlyBuses1 i disagree i think electroliners would suit the TC routes really well. even if there's too many in croydon i still think getting BZLs or something is better than the BD11 which should be avoided at all costs imo

[@thenil0011]

4:16 does that mean the U5 is keeping the electroliners or getting back the previous enviro 400 city evs

[@ms_1931]

The U5 will get its Enviro 400 EV City’s back from WL. The electroliners will return to the 133 and 381.

[@AverageTrainz]

When route 194 passes to TH garage 412 should keep to a full E400 operation better than it is doing now 🤣

[@MostlyBuses1]

Yeah it's so strange that E400s are quite rare on the 412 when they're literally the official allocation

[@PGATProductions]

@@MostlyBuses1 i think its because they struggle on the hills around selsdon/sanderstead more so they put on the DWs

[@MostlyBuses1]

​@@PGATProductionsOh yeah that makes sense. TC's older DWs aren't much better though.

[@zfs.59]

@@PGATProductionsgood thing they didn’t bid existing Ts for the 412 for 3 years then. The Ts often decide to venture out on the 60 194 and 466 instead but one T is presently on the 412 right now

[@PGATProductions]

@ most of the Ts are too old to be retendered only T279-287 might be suitable but at that point they could probably get the other EVs cheaper if they ordered more for 412 as well

[@jasonbusred3297]

you waiting so long and not mad the you I wait the SL7 video

[@MostlyBuses1]

Ok

[@Londonbusenthusiast353]

What’s going to happen to the 434?

[@MostlyBuses1]

@@Londonbusenthusiast353 nothing. It's keeping its diesels for 3 years

[@Londonbusenthusiast353]

@@MostlyBuses1ok

[@JAmoahGranite58]

GAL competitor to routes 44/77/87 and 219 any chance it could be kept South London contract, I'm pretty sure that logistically they are able to stay with diesel vehicles may still allow entry beyond this point ever compare WSDs/EH surrounded by SW doesn't require new blind set or 219 new buses. 44 streetdeck complaint then N44 denoting one as a mixed MMC allocation, QB apparent from the 196 an essential reason easy changeover Vauxhall, 44 did 1980s /77 AL/SW in 1930s. 306 standardised EVs freed up space at GW not far away, 77 can't bid further Silverthorne Road due to 196 loss plus new electric seems to be winning more routes.

[@MostlyBuses1]

@@JAmoahGranite58 I hope the 44 and 77 get retained with existing hybrids for 5 years. As for the 87 it will definitely keep the LTs, and I think SW will keep it as well.

[@MostlyBuses1]

@@JAmoahGranite58 yeah SN12AAV went on the 196 a bunch of times. Did they forget it went into the congestion charge or something!?

[@zfs.59]

⁠@@MostlyBuses1I reckon the 44 will get the other hybrid such as WHV or EHs for the next contract if GAL keep it, most certainly a GAL retain as QB is packed and full to the brim when the 337/485/G1 move in. I think they’ll dispose of the WSDs like they did with the 340’s 16 reg SWs due to unreliability and constant breakdowns. I think the 77 will keep its EHs though, I wonder if SW have a plan to put the 88’s MMCs on the 44 and the rest coming from the 5’s 17 regs or some of the 171/172’s 67/18 regs to complete the allocation. The 44/77 having MMCs makes it more simpler for maintenance and standardisation and gives it a chance for the EHs to be reblinded for the 44 and 333 now.

[@MostlyBuses1]

@@zfs.59 Yeah I think they might want to replace the WSDs too, although SW have done well with providing an almost full allocation of them on the 44. GAL seem to have changed their bidding strategy now with the 37 and 434 getting retained for 3 years so maybe the 44 would get retained for 3 years. They might also put EHs on the 44 like you said.

[@JAmoahGranite58]

​@@zfs.59 Yeah you're right... At least QB/WL and BC is full, a very difficult one to tackle as sneaky reasons like this prone and unpredictable so many prominent tender have experienced with the usage of Transport UK by not losing all main routes to regulate too much or interim operator. I see 2025/6/7 other routes in the exact same tranche under 285, H25/969, S4, 3/N3, 367, 207/N207, 315, E10, 490, 156, 344, P13, 407, 24, 27/N27, 267, 63/N63 and 109/N109. Arriva London, Metroline, RATP or Go-Ahead are pretty obvious the bidding is a strategic plans that align a few empty spaces, 196 is moving to Arriva next year only when Brixton (re-open)/Beddington outstation operators are unknown a new garage 2019 site. RATP NC due to reopen and was closed in 2013 after TV staff issues some of the biggest problems with EB/JE packed buses.

[@nathanw9770]

I don't get why TC wouldn't just use the hybrids that will be freed from the 405 on the 412.

[@MostlyBuses1]

Yeah I guess they want to move them to another garage. People have been suggesting that Arriva will use the HTs on the 428 and 109.

[@nathanw9770]

@@MostlyBuses1 I see. If that's true i think the HT's will suit the 428. Is the 109 going back to Arriva then?

[@MostlyBuses1]

​@@nathanw9770The 109 and 428's tenders aren't out yet but that's what I've heard

[@zfs.59]

@@nathanw9770the 109 I’m sure has been granted a 2 year extension for TUK to carry on with the 64 reg MMCs till 2027 as I couldn’t find it in the tenders for February 2025 with the 36, 45, 118 etc

[@zfs.59]

@@MostlyBuses1doubt Arriva would win the 109 with 10 MMCs, it’ll need plenty more than that such as using frogfaces for a mix allocation and that’s long, if 109 goes back to Arriva they’ll tender it with new electrics. The 109 I’m sure has 2 years left out of its current contract with TUK with the 64 reg MMCs as it wasn’t on the Feb 2025 tenders with the 36, 45, 118 etc so yeh

[@KorayKaragul]

I don't know what's going to be expected for route 166's tender, because all of the regular routes from South Croydon bus garage will convert into electrics.

[@MostlyBuses1]

I think it will definitely be electrics. It's either GAL will get it with new or TC will keep it with new since they don't have compliant diesels.

[@KorayKaragul]

@@MostlyBuses1 agreed with you. But it might go to TUK for new or existing diesels for a 3yr contract.

[@MostlyBuses1]

@KorayKaragul yeah that's true. What diesels would be free though, I feel like they've already used up most of their compliant MMCs. I guess if the 490 goes electric they could use the 64 plate E200s.

[@zfs.59]

@@MostlyBuses1I would say the 350 should be decked using spare E400Hs from the 381 and release 5 of its MMCs to the 166 to start and the rest of the 166’s allocation could be E200s from the U7 for a 3 year contract out of BC.

[@EL11-m2q]

@@zfs.59TC has an definite advantage with keeping 166 with a joint bid with Arriva routes. Its more than likely gonna be a retain from Arriva

[@zfs.59]

I’m still annoyed at the fact the 293 won’t be decked, TFL have removed and reinstated the decker journeys so many times just deck the route. There’s so many spare ADEs from the 258/266 that could be used and there’s a few 62 reg ADHs spare from the 266 if they wanted the 293 on a hybrid tender. I don’t know why the U5 is on a 3 year contract with 22 reg electrics and I didn’t even know TUK threw the route back to TFL early, only knew that TUK did this to the 415. Nice to see 677 move to NP, be good to see an MHV on the route as it’s currently allocated 1 17 reg EH from the 5/115. Glad the 258 is heading to Metroline, it’s defo gonna use VWs

[@MostlyBuses1]

I found it strange that the school DD part was left out in this tender. Will it be withdrawn on the new contract?

[@MostlyBuses1]

I wonder when/if the 22 plate BYDs will return to the U5, and yeah it's strange that the contract is a 3 year like with RATP's thrown back routes.

[@zfs.59]

⁠@@MostlyBuses1it shouldnt be, it’ll remain intact so the 293 will still be allocated a decker for school journeys and peak hours. Doesn’t make sense as school journeys should warrant a full decker conversion just like the 163.

[@zfs.59]

⁠​⁠@@MostlyBuses1yeah it’s strange tbh but I guess all routes being thrown back are placed into 3 year tenders regardless of using electrics, hybrids or diesels. The 22 reg BYDs will return to the route soon, there’s a few of the 133’s Electroliners on the U5 as well as the 381’s batch of Electroliners going on the 133 to cover for some of the missing 133’s batch. The 381’s batch of Electroliners are also presently on the U5. The swap will happen soon where the 133/381 get their intended correct batch number of Electroliners and the U5 reverting to BYD operation, the 381’s E400Hs will need to be freed up presumably for the 337 in May anyways or potentially to be used on the 45’s PVR increase in February until the 196’s MMCs are freed a few months later in May. I’m glad this means the 133 still gets hybrids as it’s only missing 2-3 Electroliners for it’s allocation and it’s quite nice seeing MMCs and E400Hs and even the odd LT all the time, need to catch an E400H or MMC on the route in case QB decide to go strict on the 133 and just bluntly have it Electroliner operated with just an odd LT allowed out

[@MostlyBuses1]

@@zfs.59 it's crazy how many types of electrics the U5 has had within the past two years. Hopefully the E400 EVs come back soon.

[@tflboy]

what about 166

[@MostlyBuses1]

@@tflboy The 166 hasn't come out yet. I think it'll probably be a retain with new electrics though

[@oksanapeninjberg6733]

I don't know what's gonna happen to 677

[@MostlyBuses1]

@@oksanapeninjberg6733 It's staying the same and will keep its hybrids for a 3 year contract

[@athavanainkaran2499]

677 will transfer to Northumberland Park Garage

[@MostlyBuses1]

@athavanainkaran2499 oh yeah

[@zfs.59]

@@MostlyBuses1yeah the 677 moves to NP and is going to use an MHV, presumably MHV19 will be the 677’s bus as that’s still at Q and the 1 doesn’t need it and to replace MHV19, WHV50 could come to Q to replace it for the 1 instead

[@MinionRBX4]

On the 30th of august my birthday many of tc routes wont have DWs 😢

[@MostlyBuses1]

They probably will (except for maybe the 194)

[@MinionRBX4]

@ really!? on what routes

[@MostlyBuses1]

@@MinionRBX4 on all of them since I don't think they'll be that quick to install chargers and have the full fleet in service

[@MostlyBuses1]

@@MinionRBX4 they only have enough chargers for the EMCs on the 312 and I'm not sure if they're compatible with newer electrics

[@zfs.59]

it’s likely electrics for the TC routes will be delayed, the 194 will defo be electric sometime at the end of this year or early next year when it moves to TH. The 60/405/412/466 will defo go electric later than the start of their new contract, presumably in late 2025 or sometime in 2026 due to a full scale EV conversion of the garage which takes longer than getting EV conversions for just one route

[@shubhamuprit]

Will these diesel & hybrid buses going to be scrapped?????? ☹️

[@Lx11awu]

Probs diesels hybrids if they r absolutely terrible to maintain

[@MostlyBuses1]

The 412's allocated buses are the 13 plate Ts so they might not be withdrawn yet.

[@nathanw9770]

Usually when buses are withdrawn in London they are sold to other companies elsewhere in the country so it's unlikely. Depends on their age and condition though.

[@MostlyBuses1]

@@nathanw9770 it's nice when that happens and I like seeing ex London buses on rail replacements here. I don't think they'll be able to sell second hand hybrids or electrics though so that's a shame.

[@nathanw9770]

@@MostlyBuses1 Yeah I like when that happens too. Why wouldn't they be able to sell second hand hybrids or electrics though? I know places like Leicester and Leeds are going electric so surely they'd be interested in buying from London.