New Model Railway Layout Design - It's BIGGER, but is it BETTER? 🤔

In this video I talk through plans for my new OO guage layout. These include staging, a helix, Little Wicket through station, a city terminus, the "Harborne" branchline country station and an industrial area.
There were quite a few things that I didn't like about my old layout and I've addressed them in the new design. I've tried to explain why I've designed it the way I have, but I'm sure there's always room for improvement so please do leave your comments below.
It's not a 100% finished design, but I think I'm at the point where I just want to get on with building some baseboards and getting the staging, helix and mainline in place. The terminus and the branchline are fairly well developed, but there's still work to be done on the industrial area.
This has been designed in AnyRail, I'm not an expert user, but find it really helps to visualise how things will work. The next step will be to set it all out in the space to see how it looks in the real world.
I've not mentioned it in this video, but the track will all be mostly Peco streamline code 100. Track decisions will be the subject of another video in the future and I'll explain my reasoning then.
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Chapters:
00:00 Introduction
00:35 New Considerations
03:15 Staging and Helix
04:16 Mainline
05:18 Country Branchline
05:45 City Terminus
06:53 Industrial Area
07:13 Operational Thoughts
07:46 Scenic Considerations
08:28 Access
09:03 Final Thoughts

[@nedmerrill5705]

I'm not familiar with layouts in the UK, but in the US most layouts of this size have a classification yard, which your layout doesn't have. I don't think you really _need_ one, because traffic will start and end at the staging. I think it's a well-thought out design with a lot of modelling possibilities. You will be restricted to switching operation during construction until you get a continuous run in. You might consider an automobile mechanic's creeper for the duck-under - it will be easier to roll than crawl on the floor. You can use the creeper for working under the layout, too.

[@donaldkarcheriii7249]

I will be starting my N Gauge Railroad layout. It was an existing line that ran through the county that I've lived in most of my life. As have so many railroads have gone the way of a pedestrian Trail, so is the case for what I am modeling. I hope to document its construction on a KZbin channel of my own. I do not have unlimited Financial Resources to put into a model railroad and I'm hoping that my future KZbin channel can supplement it if even in just a small way through the construction of my Railroad. My question is how much does your KZbin channel actually help with the construction of your Railroad? Let's face it, if we're going to do this thing the right way it's not a cheap Hobby. Mine will be a section of the ACL and SCL during the 60s and 70s that ran through a county in West Central Florida. I've got my hands on an entry level Digitrax DCC to run my R.R. you got a nice lay out started with your new design. I'll be interested to see how it goes. Good luck!

[@Miroslavajeri]

I’m not familiar with US railways what’s a classification yard?

[@nedmerrill5705]

@@Miroslavajeri A classification yard is a yard that you would model as part of an operating railway. It is a series of tracks for breaking down arriving trains and making up departing trains trains. Wagons are sorted, or "classified" into the yard's tracks by switching operations. I assume this function must also be performed on any railroad in whatever country.

[@pwk879]

​@@MiroslavajeriI believe they're known as marshalling yards/sidings in UK railroad jargon. Many examples I've researched were gravity shunted, with automated or centrally controlled switches for car sorting, automated retarders and or brakemen who ran along the tracksand hand applied the wagon brakes. In the US, we call this a hump yard. Very hard to model convincingly in miniature. Because of the way British rail freight worked, it seems much more common to model the "goods yard" and coal sidings that would've been present alongside most passenger terminals at a town/village of any size.

[@shanehoward2189]

ducking under will drive you crazy during the build, the screwdriver you need is always at the other side, Charlie is testament to this.

[@andrewharrison5983]

Good luck, I'll be watching with interest as I'm just starting a 27ft x 12ft loft layout

[@LittleWicketRailway]

Nice, what are you plans? What era do you model?

[@andrewharrison5983]

@@LittleWicketRailway No particular era more like a heritage railway, my great grandfather drove beyer garretts out of Toton for LMS & BR and an uncle was at Doncaster Plant building class 56's.

[@warrencleversy2773]

There's NEVER ENOUGH ROOM! For a model railroad.

[@elleryparsons2433]

That Does Look like A Sweet Layout.

[@elleryparsons2433]

Passion and Pride is Key when Building your Layout work It Slow All Will Work Out Perfect.

[@heritagejunction2184]

Hi Robert I would recommend putting in a lift hatch from the off from a comfort point of view alone, bringing stuff in and out and you'll have to tackle it at some point. Regards David

[@dibsyardshuntinglayout]

Now that looks like it will be a mega fun layout to operate

[@LittleWicketRailway]

I hope so... if it ever gets completed 😳

[@brucewoods9377]

I like it. This has all that I wanted in a layout, split levels turntable, country station, city station, industrial area and plenty of room for scenery. Only thing is that I don’t have that space unfortunately. If you build this, however, it would be an ideal time to sit down and work out a build schedule. In other words, Don’t bite off more than you can do. Don’t rush it.

[@LittleWicketRailway]

Thanks Bruce, it's definitely going to be a slow build. There's always other things going on to disrupt the schedule.

[@jeffgoldenberg9579]

You might consider raising the layout a few inches/centimeters to alleviate the pain (in the back [and neck!]) of the duck under. On the plus side, it brings the trains closer to eye level and affords better access to the helix, but it does make construction on the visible part a bit more laborious. It's a trade-off.

[@LittleWicketRailway]

Hi Jeff, it's a nice idea, but what I didn't tell you was there's a window I need to go lower than. Plus I'm a short arse, so I'd probably struggle to reach without a ladder 😂

[@jeffgoldenberg9579]

;) You're a youngster anyway and I'm sure this won't be your last layout!

[@PaulinesPastimes]

It's a layout full of possibilities and interest. So many options. I know what you mean about making constant changes. I am onto my 5th version and have had to be disciplined and stop making changes, just lay the track! 😄 Good luck with it all.

[@LittleWicketRailway]

Thanks Pauline. I'm just a bit fed up of not having a layout, just need to get building.

[@PaulinesPastimes]

@@LittleWicketRailway Totally agree, I have been staring at a blank base board for too long. 😊

[@pimpmyhogauge7873]

That is a hell of a layout plan.

[@tonywincott8448]

I have gone though so many re-designs of my layout, but finally building it now , I Can't wait to see your amazing build. Thank you for inspiring me to do it.

[@LittleWicketRailway]

Thanks Tony 👍 good luck with your build!

[@ChadwickModelRailway]

Great stuff Rob. Hopefully we’ll met up at Warley. Regards Charlie

[@LittleWicketRailway]

Thanks Charlie, got my ticket for the Saturday, hopefully see you there for a catch up.

[@ChadwickModelRailway]

@@LittleWicketRailway Brilliant.

[@andywaring12]

Brilliant. Looking forward to watching it all unfold. Regarding crawling - it will help you to KEEP fit enough to do it for at least 30 more years!

[@philh9421]

A lot of thought has gone into this and it’s given me ideas how to make more of my half-finished plans for a slightly smaller space that I’ll have once I’ve moved house later this month.

[@roundel52]

What a fantastic design! I've built my helix with a 2.1% grade uphill and 2.3% down. Most of my trains will climb with few issues. One or two will only manage to climb pulling 3 Mk 1s, the rest will do 6 or more. I have one though (Hornby 466) which can't even pull its own trailer up - guess that one goes back to eBay! Best of luck though, this seems to be a layout to compete with both Chadwick Charlie's and Everard Richard's!

[@LittleWicketRailway]

Thanks John. I am a bit concerned that some locos won't handle the gradient. I've got some pathetically weak models. Good to know that 2.1% is achievable for most. Still a million miles from anything like Chadwick or Everard, I definitely won't be trying to compete, there's room for everyone on KZbin 😀

[@roundel52]

@@LittleWicketRailway You have the added advantage of having an oval helix too. Those straight bits are going to cause less flange friction, making the climb even easier. Mine is 4th radius with R610 short straights inserted regularly, so my straight bits aren't long enough for that effect.

[@cgsathome]

What an ambitious plan! As you say, it will keep you busy for a good, long while, especially when mixing in filming. Best of luck, I will enjoy following your journey.

[@LittleWicketRailway]

Cheers Craig! Often the filming takes 10 times longer than actually doing anything on the layout.

[@stufindlow6664]

Looks awesome to me. If you fancy some coastline you could do a Dawlish style section with sea wall and model the sea right in front of where you sit. Really looking forward to it buddy. You're a great presenter.

[@thierryarchereau9190]

In french..... c'est formidable le travail que vous réalisez

[@Markhooperpug]

I like it! I like the fact that you have created the opportunity to model urban, suburban and rural scenes - this will make some great filming and viewing 👍 If you created a larger visible fiddle yard, you could create yourself a shunting challenge too by shuffling cards representing the stock you have and dealing them out into your relevant sidings. You then shunt your stock to match your latest deal. The challenge for me is now to negotiate with SWMBO for some more space to do something similar. Looking forward to seeing the new layout 👍

[@LittleWicketRailway]

Cheers Mark 👍 Nice idea, a shunting challenge in the factory area could work. Not really what I enjoy, but it'd be nice to have it.

[@mountainman0]

a very interesting idea for the layout. but I would be thinking about the heights off of the floor, as in make the staging at a comfortable height to access whilst sitting down and have the main scenery level up near chest or even almost eye height so you could then be looking through the scenery not down on it like your in a helicopter and it would also mean that you could use a rolling chair to get under the layout instead of crawling and also allows more headroom to get to any under layout wiring or point motors for repairs etc, and gives you more room for under layout storage of those railway bits and bobs that I know everybody has in abundance.

[@paulhargreaves1497]

Bar stools work well if you want to sit at a tall layout too.

[@alm5727]

I like it, looks great, like the staging yard and the helix.

[@LittleWicketRailway]

Thanks 👍

[@brendanhannon1577]

Looking forward to your progress with this project.

[@LittleWicketRailway]

Cheers Brendan. I'll share how I get along, be that success or disaster.

[@brendanhannon1577]

@@LittleWicketRailway I have no doubt it will be a great success knowing your work to date.

[@rogthedodge99]

Hi Rob. Can't fault your layout plans. An ultimate dream for any railway modeller. Will be watching as you progress. Good luck

[@markdebsauzzietravels]

Morning Rob Great vid been drawing up layouts for the last 4 months or more trying to get it all in and trying to keep it simple, looks like you have got it all in one plenty of track and still room for scenery great job looking forward to the build Cheers Mark

[@LittleWicketRailway]

Thanks Mark, we'll see. It just gets to the point where you need to start building or you'll go mad.

[@Chris-BognorRegis]

Hi Rob - I dont know how KZbin search works but I have never seen your channel crop up before, so when I saw your latest video I thought that's right up my street. I think your planned layout looks fantastic, nothing comes to mind with regards to changing it in any way. It looks perfect but we all know that as we build there are always slights alterations or additions. Otherwise I love the new planned layout. As I model in N Gauge I cannot help think what a wonderful railway you could build then, but I realise you have everything already in HO. So I have subscribed and looking forward to the months ahead. Regards Chris

[@LittleWicketRailway]

Thanks Chris 👍 Much appreciated Who knows how the KZbin algorithm works, but glad you found the channel 😀

[@jch6275]

Keep as large a radius as possible on curves in hidden areas. Eighteen ins may not be enough to prevent derailments if going too fast.... Great design!

[@LittleWicketRailway]

Cheers John. Thanks for the tip 👍

[@railway187]

Interesting plans and a large layout it will be. wow 👍 The alternative for a hidden section is a section in a slot or even narrow valley behind a little hill. It’s easier to reach when necessary and still out of view when looked at from the front of the layout. Greetings from Belgium 🙋‍♂️

[@tenterdentown2452]

I think your previous layout was better and is more the right idea. I am skeptical that you need that storage yard and helix! Bear in mind trains kept on a layout will get covered in dust and dirt, whereas trains kept in boxes will remain clean! From the point of making KZbin videos, a layout on a central board in the middle of the room is better because there are more viewing angles. With a round-the-room layout, you can only video towards the wall. It is better that the layout is on a single board than sections. A drawback with a modular layout is that your work must be extremely accurate - bear in mind the width of a saw blade is 2mm which works out to 6 inches in OO gauge! Thanks for uploading.

[@peccatumDei]

This looks excellent! I like your continuous run option, as I believe most model railroaders are rail fans at heart. I helped to build an oval four track helix for a club I belonged to years ago, and I have to say the biggest challenge was the roadbed itself, so plan well, and take your time. We dropped feeders for every piece of flex track, for maximum reliability.

[@andersholt4653]

Hello Rob. Layout plans look good. Best of luck. Can't wait to see it developing.

[@christopherdavis5544]

Great design, Rob. My model railway is also based on a Cyril Freezer design giving end-to end, out & back, and continuous running. Lots of operational interest. Like others have said, you will soon tire of crawling under, and risk coming up too soon damaging the layout or your back! I've built a DROP DOWN flap with 5 tracks across, and fitted a micro switch which kills the DCC at the command station when the flap is open. Works perfectly! Good luck.

[@gregbowen617]

Hi Rob, I think the idea of not putting track above the helix is very wise. I have always been a bit leery of helices and their potential problems. The transition effect looks great and will give you lots of scope for landscaping and building (scratch and kit). Good luck! Cheers from Melbourne, Australia!

[@LittleWicketRailway]

Cheers Greg! I'm stuffed if trains can't get up the helix and it's quite a concern, but 1.7% should be ok. There's potential to make that shallower by reducing head room or widening the loop, but it works out quite nicely with 4th radius and full lengths of flex track at the moment. I don't want to bother with any of that magnet stuff. I'm not the best at the landscaping stuff, but I think it's almost as far as the railway side of things.

[@gregbowen617]

@@LittleWicketRailway 1.7% is pretty good and the oval shape generally is easier to climb for most locomotives. Landscaping is fun and generally pretty easy- your last layout was very well done so I’m sure you will be able to achieve your goals. Plenty of tutorials on KZbin about scenery so it’s not worth worrying about it too much! Regards Greg

[@HighOakJunction]

Good video and looking forward to seeing your new project taking shape. With this hobby you never really finish as you always want to improve or add! Like your T-shirt who done them??

[@LittleWicketRailway]

Thanks 👍 and appreciate you noticing the t-shirts 😀 A company called UK Kitz made them for me. Really like them so I'll be sorting some hoodies soon.

[@bobdtaylor1989]

Looks like a great plan! Lots of potential, I cant wait to see you build it. I would strongly suggest you reconsider a lifting section though, it might not be as hard as you think - you could even do some fun things with Arduino that slows and stops trains when the section is "open"?

[@slwilliams75]

Can't wait to see more 👏🏻👍🏻

[@LittleWicketRailway]

Cheers Simon 👍

[@HumancityJunction]

Friends do not let friends build Helixes!

[@timsully8958]

Hi Rob, great to see you are taking the plunge to upgrade Little Wicket (or should it now be Greater Wicket? 😜) with a whole new bigger space. I realise like how you have essentially created a continuous loop and out and back hybrid! 😎 Plenty of things to occupy you when it takes your fancy and simple enough when you want it to be so you can just sit back and watch the trains go by 👍🍻 In terms of the crawl thing, I would suggest that maybe you should actually mount the layout perhaps an extra foot or so higher than ‘normal’ and then build a platform to stand on when in the operating well. It means you at less of a risk of head trauma 🤕 , plus it gives you an interesting viewing angle from the normal floor height, as you will be looking at the trains from a more real-life angle rather than as if in a tower block! 😎 Hope I’ve explained myself well enough! And hope you can get cracking soon! 👍🍻🍀

[@LittleWicketRailway]

Hi Tim, it's it nice idea mounting it higher (I've taken a few whacks to the head over the years, don't need any more). Issue is there's a window that I have to be lower than and some sockets. Plus, I'm a short arse. I might just have to wear a helmet 😂

[@timsully8958]

@@LittleWicketRailway: haha, that’s always an option! 🪖 You could always make the section in front of the window a valley with a viaduct of course 🤔 I reckon even an additional 7-10cm/3 or 4 inches could make a huge difference so it wouldn’t need to be too much 😜 Great stuff mate 👍🍻🍀

[@LittleWicketRailway]

@@timsully8958 Cheers Tim. I do like the valley viaduct think you can see on some of the US canyon style railroads with the trestle bridges, super impressive.

[@timsully8958]

@@LittleWicketRailway : aye, or have a look at, say, the viaduct near Welling. Brilliant piece of engineering 😎 Or the birdcage-style bridges like the now sadly long-gone structure that once took the Great Central over the River Trent 👍🤓

[@CrashNBang4x4]

That new layout looks fun, get cracking 😎

[@eddherring4972]

If you’re doing helix then take advice from Richard Everard Junction and Graham Lakeside Model Railway. Certainly Graham had a huge rectangular helix on his old layout which was a major engineering project, it also involved building sides to stop derailments from turning costly. Inspiration for the castle/seaside could be drawn from Conway Castle, the box girder bridge there is certainly interesting and I’m sure fairly unique in terms of modelling for a UK based layout. All the best with your project.

[@LittleWicketRailway]

Thanks Edd, I think I've seen Graham's, Lakeside is so impressive, and I'll check out Everard. Yes! I'd forgotten about Conwy Castle. We actually went there a couple of years ago and did the Parkrun which I'm pretty sure involves going up and over the railway line.

[@the_failed_states]

I think you've hit the nail on the head in terms of accessibility and staging. Personally - my two cents - I think a helix is asking for trouble especially if it't not really accessible. I find them frustrating - in terms of track cleaning, and that odd Dapol wagon that ALWYAS derails for no reason. I had a layout many years ago with a helix and it was hell. I'm pretty good at woodworking - and I built it well, when there was a problem it was a pain in the arse. If you d build it, don't use MDF. I'd build my staging along a wall. Maybe a couple of sets of three way turnouts at each end giving you 6 roads and a shunt at the far end. It's out of the way and easy to get to. My layout is a L shape of 4*8 and I'm over it, I cant reach corners and I've given up adding scenery. I'm about to pull it up and build a 2' shelf around the room. Staging will on the layout itself.

[@LittleWicketRailway]

Sounds like we've had the same experiences 🤣 with me it was a Bachmann OCA dropside that was allergic to the rails. I should be able to get to all sides of the helix and potentially up inside. My biggest concern is that loco just won't make it up without killing the motors.

[@alexwilson9682]

Looks good

[@LittleWicketRailway]

Thanks Alex 👍

[@aleopardstail]

there is actually another alternative avoiding the helix - dive under where you do, loop around under the country terminus on a gradient then right into the yard, avoids any issues with tight curve gradients

[@LittleWicketRailway]

I considered this, but I'd lose the storage space under the benchwork at the side and back. I might model it in AnyRail and see what the gradient for 1 loop would be.

[@Ron_Ventura]

This is going to be great fun to watch as you progress. As I was looking at the room, I found myself wondering whether you could rehang the door to open to the right, rather than to the left. That way, an operator standing at the bottom right wouldn’t get whacked by the door opening on him. Or better still, have it open outwards instead of inwards. None of that may be practical, of course.

[@ciaranburke3243]

Sounds good Rob, can't wait to see the progress 👍

[@dalegamble4535]

Looks like a great plan! Always been intrigued by using a helix. Lots of scope for big scenic areas too. Good luck 👍

[@LittleWicketRailway]

Cheers Dale 👍

[@steveedwards9957]

I like your design, well done. May I sugest you try for an easier solution to the duck under, having had one they are annoying, frustrating, and can be painful especially if your layout is not set at a good height. Consider it may not only be you getting inside, and when you have 'stuff' to take in with you it can be, well you know. Is there a less track intensive area where you could put in a lift out. Anyway, best wishes, I will enjoy watching your progress.

[@adipost6585]

I’m going to really enjoy watching this unfold over the next few months and years. Good luck! Just make sure you keep posting (I appreciate that time making videos is time lost modelling but I appreciate your work and enthusiasm. Just for the record, my layout is tiny; similar to, and about the size of your grey area on the new layout.

[@andrewverden7965]

I wish you every success in what you plan to build. Personally, I would leave out the helix and place the storage sidings at the bottom, as hidden entry / exit onto the main line behind a backdrop. I would replace the helix with a reversing loop and place another on the end of the larger station, making a bone shaped layout removing the circuit completely allowing you to simply walk into the main room without ducking under the baseboard. I have a bone shaped layout in my garage and it is great to operate as trains run in both directions and not just round in a loop. It removes the need to have bi-directional storage. I would think about where you want to operate the layout from, probably just one place, and place a nice comfy stool there and make the rest of the layout look good from that position. But hey, it is your layout and I look forward to seeing what you do with it. I am also looking into replacing my solenoid point control with arduino and servos, like what you have done very much. Perhaps you can use i2c for the comms.... regards Andrew

[@themountannanline9312]

Your plans look amazing and it will be interesting to watch your build progress. Space is always an issue but you seem to have done a great job in maximizing what you can fit into it without overcrowding things. Cheers, Lee

[@marcdempsey5850]

So good to see you back, back with a challenge that’s looks like a fantastic move forwards. Much bigger space and use on multiple levels, looking forward to the progress build videos. Always look forward to info ones as well, sounds like your going to be busy for some years to come, it’s gonna be a great project but think you will be changing few things as you work through it, always happens. Sliding door rather then a hinged door if possible…such a vast space but the door always seems to get in way one way or the other. All the very best. Marc

[@jmaccsarmiesofmiddleearth]

Looks amazing. Your other stuff area is too big. More layout :P

[@Oorail]

Looks good, if you want to avoid crawling you could put the layout up higher. The top of my baseboards sit at exactly 5', I'm about 5' 8", this gives you this kinda cool at track level view. Aside from now ducking instead of crawling, it makes things like installing point motors and signaling easy. It puts the layout closer to the lighting and probably the most important part if gives you the space under the layout. I've built shelves, smaller layouts and even have the guest bed under the layout.

[@frankhellman6879]

Since you mentioned crawling, perhaps you could use a garage crawler to go under. As is, or with a bit of a riser box, it has the advantage of carrying things underneath on your chest rather than pushing them along. Might work out. Cheers!

[@LittleWicketRailway]

Thanks Frank 👍 it seems like these garage crawlers are quite popular, will look into it.

[@PebProductions46]

Very exciting! I can't wait to see it come to fruition. I love that you are modeling the Big 4 era, I feel like everyone else I watch either does whatever they please or does Era 5+ or a heritage line to justify them doing whatever they please. I am new to modeling and still finding my footing in the hobby (i.e. just buying whatever locos I want and nothing else), but the more I think about it, the more I want to model some sort of station and yard in the height of 1930's steam. Even though Little Wicket has a bit more excitement than that, I will be watching with great interest to see how it comes along.

[@steveharper5536]

HI Rob looks an interesting plan, look forward to seeing it develop and become the new Little Wicket.

[@felixcasbon9558]

Amazing!! 😀😀😀😀😀

[@matthewbannister5951]

Looks good, I hope you build it!

[@paulwilson3083]

Hello Rob, your new layout plan is very interesting and well though out, I noticed the curves on your old layout had set track spacing, streamline spacing would save a lot of space and is the correct and realistic spacing but I'm sure you have already thought of that, I am looking forward to your progress reports and when you come to do the automation part as I would still be very keen to discuss comissioning you to do my 00 garden railway electronics as I have mentioned in your previous videos, thank you for showing this video Rob and good luck with your progress.

[@LittleWicketRailway]

Hi Paul! Definitely plan on using Peco streamline in the visible areas of the layout. Let's see how this layout goes first, I don't mind messing up my own layout, but I'd hate to make mistakes on yours.

[@janeswift9961]

I would also consider using code 75 as it looks so much nicer, less chunky. If you want to use set track elsewhere, there are transition tracks, but using those radius things etc (name escapes me) nice curves and straights can be made easily enough. The streamline points are also much nicer than Hornby types with turnouts that are not so radical. Looks like a juicy project though, good luck and I will follow with great interest.

[@timetester7896]

This looks really cool I just got my 10 year collection back from my grandads attic but a lot of the track was ruined when taking it apart and I no longer have space as I moved house so might take a while to get my own track back up and running but good luck with the layout can’t wait to see it grow

[@ngaugefouroaksstreetstatio6932]

Looks great, big project, I have built a dog bone with a 4 track helix (60 metre track) with lower storage giving about a 4 minute run. Helixes work great when 2% or lower.

[@LittleWicketRailway]

Phew! That's good to hear! Was that n gauge or OO?

[@ngaugefouroaksstreetstatio6932]

@@LittleWicketRailway N Gauge but have a look at the helix design on my channel

[@dannydanbo58]

I like this new layout. It seems to have more than enough to keep you happy and at play. Many new stories to tell. I look forward to watching the build process. As for "crawling" under the table, have you considered getting one of those mechanic roller boards that they use to roll under cars? You could sit on it and pull yourself through quickly and easily. Just be sure to duck.

[@djburland]

The plan looks amazing, but it will probably end up being too complicated again!

[@maryginger4877]

I agree.

[@LittleWicketRailway]

I like a challenge 😬

[@medwaypeninsulaMR]

It looks like it has a bit of everything and will have loads of operational oppotunities and I will enjoy watching the build. Dont worry about the crawl under section as i am 57 and still crawl under mine .LOL Cheers Kev

[@johnmarshall2660]

Hi Rob brilliant layout, think you will spend a good few years building this, mine is getting there but being 74 not sure how long it will take me to finish if ever also same issue with crawling and I have back ache, I also watched Tony North Eastern and he spend about 6 years but must have lots of cash ..LOL

[@aleopardstail]

Love the concept, has "a lot", but _including_ a decent amount of open space, only one big concern, whats the radius of the helix? that looks tight for hauling an 8 coach rake around, thinking as you may actually have an alternative which is to open it up a bit more, stick one end below the lower tracks at the country terminus - can loop back in a dog bone shape to under the industrial bit - you may be able to open the curves out a bit and with the longer straight actually have less time on curves with the joining section (four track) also part of the gradient I'd then be tempted to bring it forwards slightly to have maybe partly visible as a deep cutting somewhere. otherwise maybe have the industrial bit curve round a bit more above where you have the helix is now but as noted you've got space and its not developed. loving that the whole thing while it looks like two loops is actually just one, and with the helix as you have you note 8 storage roads - you probably have space for another four or six trains _on the helix_ as long as you don't mind the order being fixed. through in some basic automation and no reason not to have a whole stack of trains gently making the world go past. *really* like it as a concept, also easy to see how to make it in stages, though to be honest I'd not loose much sleep over making it dismantlable as the 27th law of sod says if you do move again the new room will be about 1" shorter in a key dimension anyway. making chunks come off for access and cleaning though is very sound. makes the 2'6" x 4' board I've got feel sad, will look forwards to seeing this grow though :)

[@LittleWicketRailway]

Cheers Dale. The outer line of the helix is 4th radius set track to make my life easier. The straights are full lengths of flex track, again for simplicity. There is scope to widen/lengthen, but I'd have to ditch the set track.

[@aleopardstail]

@@LittleWicketRailway 4th should work, only one way to really find out, set track on that sort of curve seems very sensible if you can do it, especially if you only gain a small amount going flexi (obviously flexi allows a lot wider if you can). how much vertical space are you after above the fiddle yard to the board? guessing its at least say 3" for trains, and 2" for servos etc but how much more for "hands"?

[@LittleWicketRailway]

@@aleopardstail it's about 50cm gap which should give me room to get in and move trains about if needed.

[@aleopardstail]

@@LittleWicketRailway ahh *now* I see why you want the Helix, thats a heck of a gap, easy to see whats going on though :)

[@aaustin7532]

The plan looks well thought out, and really fun to both build and run. Have you considered building a small section of narrow gauge on the peninsula? It seems like the perfect place to put a small loop of tourist railroad with stations at the castle, the shore and your standard gauge line. It'll add some variety and add a chance to run some vintage equipment in the modern era.

[@OlivierGabin]

Nice design, and your best idea is to have more room for scenery. I'm also in for a continuous run, like you, which would be the basis of my forthcoming layout, an oval with tids and bits to mask the fact that it is an oval. I have taken an ideo from the Peco Setrack track plan book in OO for an urban layout with fou scenic elements one following the other. Plus some ideas picked from place to place, including US modeller John Armstrong. Something original : I also need the scenery to be easily replacable, because I am also modelling Italy and Germany in HO, and that would be a bonus to do that with the same tracks (Piko A-Track with integrated ballast).

[@qwertyuio266]

Im worried you are going to get bored running the trains through the helix. Consider starting going downwards as soon as you leave Little Wicket. Let the first lap of the helix going down be visible and then go in a tunnel. If you can don't do anymore laps in the helix or as few as you can to get the stagging to work. Put the single track in the back towards the wall, less chance of a derailment there. Good luck

[@supersprinter1564]

Nice layout design bit to technical for me

[@alexs5700]

look forward to see this and the electrics developing good on ya Rob. are layouts ever finished theres always something that can be changed or improved

[@vernongardner1958]

Wow, I know I'm only just on my first layout and this is your second(?) but that looks ambitious. So much in there. I wish you well Rob and look forward to watching your progress. Are you planning on getting all the track down first and then model a section at a time or do you think you will be switching between some trackwork and some scenery - as the mood takes you - much like Charlie @ Chadwick Model Railway?

[@petertrevena804]

Modular is the best way as you can swap them out for a different one.

[@LittleWicketRailway]

Hi Peter 🙂 I think the design breaks down quite well into modules for construction, but I probably wouldn't swap them. I'm thinking if the city terminus looks OK then there is a slim chance I could have this as a removable module to take to a show (terrifying thought).

[@_RandomPea]

Hi Rob, how are you getting on with this new build? Did you manage to start, I was looking for an update on the playlists to see how you got on

[@LittleWicketRailway]

Hi Ande P! Progress has been very slow. Episode 1 is here kzbin.info/www/bejne/Y5bSnWevfcecj7s. Since then all the staging is done and I'm about to film episode 2. Then I can move onto building the helix. I knew it wasn't going to be a quick build, but it's taken a very long time to lay the staging and wire up all the points.

[@redversb2347]

Wow. No constructive criticism as I'm yet to do my loft layout - just respect as it looks pretty complex with that helix. I'm hoping to crib some ideas from you though as your layout progresses. Thanks.

[@LittleWicketRailway]

Thanks 👍 looking forward to getting stuck into this now 😬

[@Herriot7]

Thanks so much for sharing - inspirational for my own layout thinking. One thought though is what would it look like to operate on your own? there's a lot of sight lines that might get blocked by the central helix. Very best wishes and looking forward to seeing how you get on.

[@LittleWicketRailway]

It would be tricky to operate on my own. The plan is to let a computer take care of most operations. I might take control of a single loco in between automated services.

[@janeswift9961]

​@@LittleWicketRailway What software would you be using? JMRI? Whatever you choose, please, please, please do some of your usual excellent videos on how it is done.

[@modelrailwaytheeasyway9743]

Look forward to the new layout. Will you be using DCC++ EX on this one as it gives availability of 50 locos and if combined with the MERG boost will be able to have 5 or 10 amps instead of 2amp limit. Also the cmri system you showed I have used this a lot and keep pushing ahead with mimic panels.

[@cheesedoff-with4410]

Make sure that other stuff zone doesn't grow. As for crawling to access, maybe something like a "40" PLASTIC MECHANICS CAR CREEPER SEAT WORKSHOP GARAGE TROLLEY 6 WHEEL BOARD NEW" , found on Ebay, should spare your knees? I look forward to seeing this develop. Will you be handbuilding any track or points to help fit everything in?

[@LittleWicketRailway]

Thanks for the suggestion! I like the idea of just wheeling myself in and out. I'll pass the message about the "other stuff zone" on to my wife 🤣 The plan is to use Peco streamline for the point work. I'm not brave enough to hand build my own. I briefly thought about making a scissor crossover by combining streamline points, but that would be about as far as I'd go. Have you ever tried it?

[@cheesedoff-with4410]

@@LittleWicketRailway No I haven't tried it yet but I've been inspired by James Walters's Bexhill West layout, kzbin.info/www/bejne/r5y2oWx3qqqHpLs I like the idea of making the track fit the plan, rather than creating a layout around set pieces. How about using Templot to create a test piece? Maybe a curve that suits Little Wicket? I've watched you repair loco's; you don't strike me as somebody who wouldn't make a good fist of it.

[@LittleWicketRailway]

@Cheesed Off-With thanks for sharing the vid. Maybe if I'm feeling brave then I'll give it a go and I appreciate your belief in my abilities 😀 I'm still thinking of doing a really small scene, maybe with a single turnout using more prototypical track. Might try building my own for that.

[@xxc4ssiusxx]

Impressive stuff Rob! You can certainly see the evolution of design from your previous layout. I'm sure this is years in the making so good luck! Just curious, how far do you expect to go with automation?

[@LittleWicketRailway]

Thanks Ian. It's a big project, I'm a bit worried too big. Much like the full size railway I'm sure it'll be late and cover budget, but I'm sure I'll learn a lot and enjoy building it. The intention is to have it almost fully automated, apart from the industrial area. The dream is to have an operations schedule that the computer can follow to a fast clock. Trains react to signalling, routes are set as required and external features such as level crossings react as trains approach.

[@xxc4ssiusxx]

@@LittleWicketRailway Nice! That will certainly take some time. I'm sure if you take a phased approach you can do it in stages without getting bored or bogged down. I'd go depth first, making sure I had a sub-section complete and workable to keep me interested. Keep it fun!

[@stocktonjunction]

Hi I built the same helix and used the powerbase I did a video on that which u might find interesting as I did a test with a steam loco and steam are very different with a helix compared to heavier diesel Like your layout plan

[@LittleWicketRailway]

Hi Stockton Junction! I'd love to see that video, and I'm sure others would. Can you drop the link here? Did power base make a big difference?

[@stocktonjunction]

@@LittleWicketRailway yes it did kzbin.info/www/bejne/gWiQoZWdeNarppo

[@radiofry]

Those few more years in your thirties will go by fast. Mine sure have. I’d say, be bold and try the lift out section.

[@LittleWicketRailway]

Haha, don't say that, I still feel like I'm 25! Do you have any tips for a lift out section?

[@1st2nd3rd4rd]

@@LittleWicketRailway if you do a liftout section, one way of aligning is to use alignment pins that don't allow any play.

[@radiofry]

@@LittleWicketRailway I wish I did. I’m a novice, just trying to learn from the experts like you! But I do know a thing or two about approaching 40 and trying to crawl around on the floor. I have a two year old, so he is making me well aware that I’m not getting younger.

[@LittleWicketRailway]

@@radiofry thanks, not sure I'd call myself an expert, but I try hard 😁 I bet keeping up with a 2yr old is hard work, hopefully he'll be into trains and you'll have an apprentice modeller to help out.

[@SC68]

Hi looks like a great plan with lots of potential!! What’s you timeline for completing such a large layout? Cheers Gary

[@LittleWicketRailway]

Thanks Gary 👍 realistically this will take years to "finish" (are layouts ever finished? 🤣) I have the ambition of running a loco from staging, around the helix and out onto some kind of mainline by Christmas. Given that's less than 2 months away and this is my evenings/weekend hobby we'll see what happens. The bit that takes most time is actually filming and editing. I'm also committed to a few electronics videos in that time too.

[@scottthompson7605]

I’m really looking forward to watching this project progress. Will you be making the baseboard yourself or will you commission someone to make them for you.

[@LittleWicketRailway]

Hi Scott, I'm going to have a go myself using a couple of different methods. Wood has already arrived for the staging area.

[@scottthompson7605]

@@LittleWicketRailway I am also planning a layout and I’ve spent the summer converting my garage into a workshop i have also learned new skills so I can take on the task of building baseboards myself.

[@cmdrpuppie8934]

Looks good. Are you still going to use JMRI/CMRI ?

[@LittleWicketRailway]

Thanks. 99% sure that I'll be using JMRI, not sure about CMRI as a communications method. I still want to look into MQTT.

[@cmdrpuppie8934]

@@LittleWicketRailway i've not looked into MQTT yet, I'm still JMRI/CMRI. I built a custom board based in part on your videos on CMRI, it contains a nano, PCA9865 and the TTL chip in one board, which connects to a seperate master node via rj45 cable, the master node is connected via the usb device to the computer. I'm not selling them, though have a few free ones, so can send you one if you want to play with it 😃

[@jonweighell]

Looks like a nice layout, but wonder if operating the industrial area might be tricky if you're in the centre of the layout, and vice versa? 🤔😊

[@RogerDiscombe]

Hi Rob. I am looking forward to watching your progress. Do you intend to use Arduinos to control the layout? If so, do you know how many you will need?

[@LittleWicketRailway]

The short answer is yes. The intention is to use Arduinos (or similar) to control points, signals, lightning, etc. I'll probably use multiple smaller controllers such as nanos dotted around. Main reason is flexibility and cost. It's the communication method I'm not fixed on. Need to look into MQTT.

[@janeswift9961]

@@LittleWicketRailway There is a channel by a German or Austrian guy who has shown how you can connect nano arduinos to the DCC bus and programmed to run as point/signal accessory decoders - here you go kzbin.info, but that said, these seem to be springing up all over the place now.

[@stephenjones1380]

Re the helix, and your concern about whether or not your trains can handle the gradient, why not rig up a test set-up before getting over invested?

[@LittleWicketRailway]

Good suggestion 👍 sounds like a weekend project, could give some interesting results and hopefully provide some reassurance.

[@stephenjones1380]

@@LittleWicketRailway Don't forget to record your work! It'd make an interesting video.

[@tico360]

So is the layout double or single track mainline? since there is a loop that just puts the train on the same line but going to other direction.

[@jenniferseagrave4028]

And one day can I see your top you wear

[@LittleWicketRailway]

Haha, do you want a Little Wicket Railway t-shirt?

[@REDARROW_A_Personal]

What did you use to plan the layout?

[@LittleWicketRailway]

It's called AnyRail. I'm pretty sure it's free to download and use up to a certain number of track pieces, but after that you'll need to buy a licence. It's a lifetime licence, so worth it if you like to plan a lot.

[@supersprinter1564]

I'm building Birmingham international in the 80s soon only problem the cheapest I can find a class 310 and 308 builder is £500 each and I need a few of each do you know of any cheaper builders of locomotives or emus in my case

[@LittleWicketRailway]

Having lived in Birmingham for a long time I'd love to see that layout when it's complete. Afraid I don't know about the 310s and 308s. Might be worth asking on some of the rail forums.

[@LittleWicketRailway]

Have you seen this: www.rue-d-etropal.com/3D-printing/passenger-stock-br/3d_printed_sg-br-class-310.htm And these: electrarail.co.uk/class-310-4-car-emu-440-p.asp

[@supersprinter1564]

@@LittleWicketRailway thanks I used to spend hours at Birmingham international as a kid so I've always wanted to do a build of it when I've built my shed to house it in👍

[@supersprinter1564]

@@LittleWicketRailway yes I actually brought a cab end from them to much finishing and no motors or bogies and a bit over priced

[@johnlong3214]

👍

[@adey2318]

Hi I follow your video to learn how use Arduino And I have a petition for you if you have time I want use JMRI and serví motor tu make turnable roundhouse and I don’t no how solve the problem with the polarity in track when I want make a 180” degree tu a loco Are you have any solution for this thanks and sorry my english

[@henrybest4057]

Juan, you don't need the track powered when the turntable is turning. Have contacts that line up with each exit track at both ends of the turntable. Then the polarity will always be correct.

[@paulhargreaves1497]

@@henrybest4057 Never thought of that! Will look into how to make reliable contacts

[@janeswift9961]

@@henrybest4057 If you use sound you will need power. However, there are plenty of tutorials on reverse loops using arduinos, so that approach could be used on a turntable

[@phil36310]

Layout idea without helix but wit good staging facilities. Make your around the wall loop a 'big helix'. kzbin.info/www/bejne/l3KbkKywq8edj6M (Ex. 1 But skip the deviser where the railroads parallel see Ex. 2) kzbin.info/www/bejne/ppmVeIdqeMedprM (Ex.2 In this example the staging is not accessible so to avoid at all cost but could be realised as in ex. 1 without deviser and use of bridges & tunnel portals. Hope this helps ! Cheers & success.

[@attercliffecentral3802]

Not sure about your new layout plan looks too complex the helix might seem a great idea but could end up been more a problem than its worth. I once watched an American channel the guy had built a helix what he found was when trains derailed he had problems reaching them especially on the back tracks access was very limited maintaining track was an issue. Are you sure you want such a large layout will you be able to reach all areas when problems arise can you walk around your layout for ease of access? My own layout is small and basic but you can shunt on it and run trains access is not a problem can be moved if needed to be as you get older the last thing you want is struggling with your layout.

[@speleokeir]

Nice plan and I'm excited to see how you get on. I like the modular idea which might be particularly useful for the crawl area in case you decide to change to a gate/lift out at some later date. I've been thinking along similar lines after watching some of That Railway Guy's videos. kzbin.info/www/bejne/bpCWdWqclNSEq5I Out of interest what are the dimensions of the room and the layout and how do they compare to the previous layout? Also what sort of room is it? Spare? Loft? Basement? Garage? Outbuilding? Is it subject to big temperature changes? If so it's worth making sure it's well insulated to avoid potential warping of the baseboards, especially the helix. Currently I'm am in the process of developing a small basic layout in my spare room where I can practice some ideas and techniques. Longer term the idea is to move into my loft. I live in a terrace with slate roof so there aren't many beams and a fair bit of space up there, however it needs a a fair amount of work and money before I can consider building a layout up there. I also like the idea of a lower storage area when I get around to the loft layout but as an alternative to a helix have been toying with the idea of a train lift. Perhaps something like this: kzbin.info/www/bejne/j6aYn3qaeK1-eKc There are some good videos on making TV console lifts which are very similar in principle and it would use less space than a helix, however I suspect it will be some years before I'm in a position to try anything like that and there are pros and cons to both.

[@jenniferseagrave4028]

I know him.

[@LittleWicketRailway]

Hello 🙋‍♂️

[@mc2594]

why are 90% of model Railways nostalgic, 10% modern and 0% future based? I'd really like to see some HS2 inspired layouts, it's a dream for reference, cuttings, tunnels, viaducts, scenery and a super fast train, quite easy to do in fact because it's not full of details.

[@LittleWicketRailway]

Good question! For me there's something about steam which is just fascinating. I think Pete Waterman's recent layout was closest to what you described, 60ft of mainline. Do we know what HS2 trains will look like?

[@mc2594]

@@LittleWicketRailway - ''Do we know what HS2 trains will look like?'' even better question although HS2 must be thinking about it, I don't know if they'll be new specific and British built or bought from elsewhere, bit early to tell maybe.

[@mc2594]

​@@LittleWicketRailway - I did see the Pete Waterman layout, which I guess shows the problem, only a Cathedral has the room and even then only for two 00 scale miles of track. I love Steam too and at least it lends itself to the sedate restrictions of a home layout in terms of scale distance and speed ... not that Steam was particularly slow on the mainlines.

[@jimteff6114]

If yr in the centre, why make the big station out of reach?