New Planner Update? It's Not Great...

After attending some Microsoft Planner AMAs and "Meet the Makers", we have some critical news on the rollout, licensing structures, new features and it's leaving something to be desired. We are getting a new logo though! 😅
Check out these other videos we mentioned:
• Microsoft’s New Planne...
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#newplanner #taskmanagement #microsoftloop #microsoftcopilot #powerapp #powerautomate #m365 #citizendeveloper
0:00 Welcome
1:35 The Current Mess
2:40 Curious Client - Asana to Planner
5:48 Licensing, Licensing, Licensing

[@BulbDigital]

Feel free to share your grievances. This is a safe space. 😣

[@charlesveronneau7790]

Glad someone understands the basic requirements for a functional project management tool. Impressive that MS has 4 product managers and clearly not one of them uses the tool. Please keep representing "us".

[@BulbDigital]

@@charlesveronneau7790 We're here for you all 🤗, hoping to see some good change soon on the MS side

[@jason-m]

The reason their development is taking so long is they're all busy creating plans from task lists to share with teams so they can have meetings and collaborate about the tasks in the plan about the planner that lets you manage tasks in the plan about planner for the teams where collaboration and planning task lists and assigning buckets to plans with tasks and managing those tasks and buckets and boards helps you get the tasks done.

[@BulbDigital]

Sounds straightforward to me

[@youtubeaccount5505]

It's all a big sellout money grab now.

[@rachel9950]

🤣

[@stevedebree]

🤣

[@MonoRec88]

Great to hear an honest take. Hopefully they’ll stop confusing us with more licensing tiers than products soon.

[@blackchipblue]

Great feedback. Shame they don't take notice of their users. I find all the MS apps in 365 too slow and never hitting the true goal, that's why most businesses mainly use Excel for everything.

[@adamb7230]

Is there any type of resource management tool where I can view and balance tasks assigned to my team from across projects?

[@dlutchner]

Thanks for your honesty video. I've never been a fan of Planner because it's been to rigid in functionality. I prefer using Microsoft Lists.

[@tecnopadre]

Hey! I've found a way to have conversations in each task and mention people from the team. The way is to add "Project" to the company and create the tasks inside Teams, as a TAB.

[@boplomedia]

THX for the video. Do you suggest some other tool for planning?

[@BulbDigital]

We're still finding our way with Loop + Planner, occasionally Azure DevOps for more code-intensive projects. We sort of strong arm them into working for us at the moment. I've heard great things about Asana and Monday, but have only used them for demo purposes.

[@mitchellneth]

Dang. You're excitement from previous videos had me excited. Your sadness now has me sad :( I really had the sense that MS was turning a new leaf with Teams, Loop, and Planner. Our team has completely switched to loop so here's hoping they don't "enterprisify" that application.

[@BulbDigital]

I was definitely excited! It's still on the "right" path, but I'd imagine it will be a year or two before we feel relief. You are right in betting on Loop, we've had first-hand experience with the Loop team and they're all great. It definitely feels like a team with the right mindset and approach overall.

[@andycub]

Can you use Loop as a replacement fully for Planner?

[@rodds5569]

We have Plan 3. One disappointment is that the online version is a very different experience from the desktop version. Thus, it is a very different learning curve for our users (some of whom are using a Mac and therefore only have online access - no desktop app). Was expecting (hoping) for a more unified UX so we don't have different people doing different things to accomplish the same task. MS Project Plan 3 features are complicated enough without having to debug user problems through a different interface. Also, we haven't purchased Copilot independently - there is no clear indicator for where to use Copilot on the desktop version - perhaps we need to buy that license separately too to access Copilot features in Plan 3?

[@KristinaFitzgerald-oe6zt]

Until you started mentioning the tiered licensing, I assumed that the feature atrophy was due to them not wanting to muddy the waters about when to jump from a trade level product into the enterprise Azure DevOps space, and not eat their own market share, but now I'm confused. Having mentioned that, would you do a video in the "which tool when" practical guide of what real life situations would prompt which investment? Just a thought...

[@BulbDigital]

I imagine it's mostly a "why would someone buy microsoft project if we make planner really good?" question. We recorded a video a few years ago that talked people through all the task management tools which is rather popular, so we may revisit it! We'd love if making a video like that felt unnecessary because MS made things a little simpler, but until then, we're here :)

[@marcdoliveira4906]

As always great video and please keep pointing out the gotchas however many there are 👍

[@BulbDigital]

Thanks, glad to be a voice for the people :)

[@jtothemoe]

Yes! I agree with what you are saying. I love Planner! I am a list person. But I agree its missing a few things. I use it for myself and to delegate tasks to my teammate. There is no feature (that I know of) where you can see tasks that you have delegated. Planner also needs to have a calendar feature so you can see all your tasks in a calendar view...and it needs to link with outlook. I also use a tasks template that I have in my template page, to copy all those tasks to a new project is such a pain.

[@BulbDigital]

There for sure needs to be some sort of "manager view". There is a calendar, it's just not great.

[@SHMUPS]

We use this every day as a basic task board for our team. The changes have made work a bit slower. There's more clicks involved to do our stuff. The window needs to be bigger to show all the info. I've accidentally entered renaming mode many times already. I really hope I get used to it because it's frustrating. You can't see more of the task name no matter how big you make the window? You have to rename to see the whole thing

[@BulbDigital]

I agree the new app leaves a lot to be desired

[@neilwatson168]

I have noticed some odd or at least unexpected behaviour around the creation of plans and their "shareability" in Loop. It appears to make a difference where the plan is created [Planner on web, Planner in Teams] and whether the plan is standalone or attached to a Group. I have several plans that I created in Teams New Planner and these do not have a share link.

[@BulbDigital]

As far as I know this is because there isn't a web version of the new Planner right now, so there's no "link". Definitely a bit of a gap in that feature at the moment.

[@naiemaansermet9803]

Noooo :( the premium functionalities were not clear when they launched. I've been looking for those functionalities, now it makes sense

[@Ready-To-Learn]

I don’t write comments on the regular basis. But man - as an enterprise administrator for MS 365 - I feel you so much! 😂

[@BulbDigital]

Ha I appreciate the commiseration

[@AhmedAlHarban]

Thanks a lot!

[@MarsorryIckuatuna]

It would be nice if KZbinrs and Americans in general could just use calendar months rather than, “Early Summer” or “Fall”. It would be nice. 👍

[@BulbDigital]

Good call! I hadn't considered this before. I was just regurgitating the answer MS gave. In this cases I was referring to some time in August-October time frame.

[@pixl6874]

love the honest review. maybe someone at MS sees this.

[@BulbDigital]

fingers crossed! 🤞

[@cre8ivjay]

I love the authenticity!

[@BulbDigital]

Authenticity is definitely something we focus on here, thank you!

[@fsaetre]

There is always Dynamics 365 Project Operations…. 😅

[@just1live]

Still waiting for a propper replacement for MS Project...hope devs get in touch with actual needs of project managers

[@BulbDigital]

This may get there one day, we'll see

[@ManuelGarciaMaestracci]

Estoy de acuerdo contigo. Un logotipo lindo solamente. Y al final terminaras pagando un mucho dinero

[@BulbDigital]

💯

[@FormByFirelight]

7:50 the new planner logo is a finger flickering at us. Microsoft and the art of disappointment at its best.

[@shirleysui1462]

Dude.... Our managerial consultant was hyped when he saw the news, but as soon as I read the fine print I was like, yeah this isn't much .... I was hoping it would be more and they'd fix some of the things that are wrong with planner. I'm glad that I'm not the only one seeing that. Right now even Lists does a better job of task management because you can create and track multiple statuses...

[@BulbDigital]

We've definitely considered using Lists instead, there's a lot of core functionality in Lists that would be great to have in Planner.

[@shirleysui1462]

@@BulbDigital yes!! It blows my mind that they can't figure out how to adapt/add features that exist in most of the other Microsoft apps into planner... Like version controls/show changes, seriously?! And the fact that if anyone accidentally deleted a planner task it's gone forever.. how is there no recycle bin?! And the @tagging functionality! So many things...

[@tomaszpater8247]

Hi I looking for solution for project online I I have big hopes for this new planner. Do you know any good solution that can replace project online in big organization 500+ users.

[@BulbDigital]

We don't do a ton of large company project management work, but we've had good luck with Azure DevOps when we do! It's definitely targeted at a code-heavy project, so hard to say if it would be a good replacement for you or not.

[@rocketrod67]

I don't know your requirements but Oracle Primavera is a robust solution that can handle thousands of users or you can use MS Project Online, but performance can be a challenge at times and querying OData can be painful

[@misterkush7]

I would love to be able to add a Planner to a Shared Channel inside of a Team, but after seeing this video I don't have much hope anymore.

[@Atrain204]

best you can do is Loop tasks, which CAN be viewed in Planner but not the 'New' Planner/teams app.

[@BulbDigital]

Shared channels are tricky from a permissions standpoint, not sure if it will work or not!

[@bi-ome]

But on the bright side, plan 1+ data is accessible - it's in Dataverse, so you can actually build your own dashboards off of it via Power BI. You don't get any of the custom column data though, which is sad. I hope they add that.

[@BulbDigital]

It's a bummer Planner isn't stored in Dataverse so we could do the same!

[@bi-ome]

@@BulbDigital Right?! I guess that's part of the upsell strategy though. 🤣 You can still get the data out of Planner for reporting via Power Automate, but it's a bit tedious to set up. I did a video on that actually - I think that's why KZbin recommended your video to me... ranting about the hoop jumping for reporting on Planner puts me squarely in your target audience.

[@BulbDigital]

Ha there's an entire industry around MS tools falling short and people strong arming them into getting what you want out of them like that. It's becoming less and less a need, fortunately, but they're definitely still behind in the Project Management scene.

[@JaM3s_C0L3]

You are spot on. The one word to describe planner, Infuriating.

[@BulbDigital]

Let it all out, James 😀

[@JaM3s_C0L3]

@@BulbDigital MS combined multiple products to create one program that could seriously compete with the Mondays, Asanas, and Clickups in the world. At the point they realized they nearly reached their goal, they stripped all of the good and wholesome parts from their new creation and threw them in the trash. To guarantee their epic failure, they increased the cost by summing up the subscription costs for each individual part. Honestly, MS must own all the other management companies. Produce a lame @ss product and competing software will look ingenious. By the way, your reporting, Top notch. Well done, Sir!

[@BulbDigital]

Thanks, appreciate your thoughts here :)

[@jesseveentjer2075]

I played around with forms triggering a power automate that then copies a template project and prunes certain labels based on form entry.. did it for both the 'planner' lists and the 'project for the web' list (most confusing part was all the names for the various project and task list programs) On the dashboarding thing.. it works a lot easier with project for the web as its based on dataverse, and the dataverse is directly accesible from Powerbi which will lead to easy reporting on a macro level. Biggest downside so far is that the new planner hardly supports the project lists (even though its their 'licensed lists') .. you just dont see them in the 'my task lists' view.. only in recent lists.. it's pretty cringe

[@BulbDigital]

I was really hoping they would move everything into Dataverse, but that's nowhere in sight. I agree the integration pulling in tasks from "premium" projects is sort of bizarre that they haven't figured that out and made it better, given that is the entire premise of this shift.

[@jesseveentjer2075]

@@BulbDigital They do for the premium list (project online list) , that runs entirely on dataverse .. I set it up now that the list is made via Power Automate using the dataverse API .. the interface hardly supports the premium tasks though, again.. very strange as that is the paid version

[@sybamunki]

From what I've seen, MS Planner and Project for Web are the most basic tools on the market. It does an OK job for most people in my organisation, but it's really hard to do more sophisticated management. E.g. dependencies between project tasks, exporting plans to PDF (for snapshot reports, embedding in slides/reports), Planner integration with Power BI. Entering data into Project is quite clunky - you can't copy down items for example. We're putting up with it cos we can integrate with 365 easily but....

[@BulbDigital]

That about sums it up, we "deal with it" for the most part, which is a big bummer of a mindset about a tool that does something as important as Project Management

[@ReQuiem_2099]

Talk about under-deliver! 😂 I was so underwhelmed with the "New" Planner that I kept going back to make sure that I'd actually received the newest update.

[@BulbDigital]

Such a bummer!

[@sorenklick2201]

They basically talked more about the new logo design than its features. I knew at this point something is not right :D

[@BulbDigital]

Lipstick on a pig :)

[@jounistroja6959]

Agree…..with the summary. To little, to late…. I was hoping for a new, revamped tool, but alas no….

[@BulbDigital]

Such a bummer!

[@Advisicon]

Copilot licensing is a mess right now. Super confusing and expensive! We're really hoping to see some changes with how Copilot will be sold going forward.

[@BulbDigital]

We'll see, we agree it's a bit of a mess.

[@tecnopadre]

Yes to all that Planner needs to be. Other products are going above it.

[@BulbDigital]

Agreed!

[@esthercraft]

After experiencing the more progressive PM tools like ClickUp, Microsoft has a long way to go. Only reason we use MS cause everyone communicates in Teams 😅

[@BulbDigital]

It's such a bummer.

[@PatrickPedersen85]

Actually when using teams you are not that locked in to planner. For example Asana is more integrated into M365 than Planner and has «chat» in each task.

[@AaronSwenson]

Our MSP has revoked the necessary privilege to share planner boards with individuals in an ad hoc manner. It's a ridiculous hindrance overall but especially in the usefulness of Planner.

[@BulbDigital]

That's a real bummer!

[@MrBokkyboy]

Oké I'm done with selling planner loop copilot etc etc at the company I work for.😣. Not just for under delivery but the pricing to get things that should be part of 365. But hey someone in the marketing department is like : just charge money for every single thing. This whole subscription thing is getting out of hand right in front of your eyes by every single company that is focused on selling software 😣😣

[@BulbDigital]

Loop is a gem, you should keep using it! It feels like it's on a good track compared to some of these other tools.

[@WillFindlay]

I was excited about the ability to create plans not tied to a team until I discovered you can’t copy them without a premium license. That pretty much made the feature useless to me. Microsoft needs to realize that if you aren’t in the IT department, getting a premium license is not a trivial process.

[@BulbDigital]

I wish they would do away with all the licensing trouble

[@WillFindlay]

@@BulbDigital yeah I don’t think Microsoft understands how little power a typical user has in an organization to get a premium version of one of their sub products. I don’t even know who to ask. And then there is the hassle of justifying it to whomever would approve it.

[@DavidLongo22]

AGREED! I always thought things were supposed to BETTER...(facepalm).

[@BulbDigital]

Not holding my breath with this one

[@johnathannelson1386]

I have been speaking with Microsoft Project/Planner product directors and managers for over a decade about the lack luster application that Planner is. Hardly NOTHING has changed. Very disappointing! We will keep using Asana.

[@BulbDigital]

Such a bummer

[@joerego2117]

It feels like Microsoft invested a lot more time in rolling out the new logos than they did on the new features . . .

[@BulbDigital]

Just wait until you see our next video on this...

[@StuartGill-UWTSD]

More often than not, it seems Microsoft develop apps and leave out really useful features that people keep requesting. They seem to do really well for 90% of the functionality of an app, but really let people down with the last 10%. I do wonder whether they develop these apps for us or for themselves.

[@BulbDigital]

Yeah it's like they get things to a certain point, enough to make money, and just let them sit.... and sit. Until the noise is loud enough from the customers.

[@maheshdesilva2308]

I just want search...

[@BulbDigital]

What a novel concept haha

[@elpelagatos]

If there was no friction, it wouldn't be Microsoft

[@BulbDigital]

😅

[@mishymoo34]

Rotate the logo a little and it looks like MS are giving the middle finger. Just sayin.

[@BulbDigital]

🙈

[@louishubert7702]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/rJOTqJ14i5Wnes0 - Is there a link to this license chart anywhere?

[@BulbDigital]

I got it from the meet the makers video here: kzbin.info/www/bejne/mpSmfYqcmqqBpZY

[@AudraAnnikaJames]

I am so disappointed. I was hoping for a basic functionality: to be able to sort by TAG. Why have tags if you can't USE THEM!?!?!?! So frustrating.

[@shirleysui1462]

Honestly yeah! The only way I found tags to be useful was to highlight info/as a way to create custom statuses... And filter for them.

[@BulbDigital]

You're asking for too much! 😉

[@bennytherocker]

Such a shame. We had really high hopes for this, what a lost opportunity.

[@BulbDigital]

Agreed. We'll see how it goes long term. Hopefully enough people out here can make some noise and get things to shift in the right direction.

[@Atrain204]

MIcrosoft will continue to shoot Planner in the foot until you buy Premium/Project... any likely afterwards too.

[@BulbDigital]

Definitely a money grab at play

[@McIlravyInc]

😢

[@johnnapurcell]

Big disappointment. The fact that you can't drag emails into planner to create tasks is ridiculous. You would need to hire a person to enter in all the data all day long.

[@BulbDigital]

Lots of little quality of life improvements they should make for sure

[@The_Third_Place]

at this moment someone else should develop a great platform and roll it out. this is literally oligopoly incompetence.

[@BulbDigital]

We've considered it

[@DrBeast2]

We moved off of planner and project in general because of how schizophrenic they are with their releases and roadmap. I don't have time to wait and play beta tester for their application. All they needed to do was take old school Microsoft project and recreate it and they fumbled it.

[@BulbDigital]

Wish things were a little better!

[@JuliaToya]

It seems like Microsoft was never about producing good user-friendly products 😂 they just release whatever and since a lot of people are using it they expect everybody just to accept this fact 😂😂😂

[@BulbDigital]

Hoping things change, but it is unfortunate

[@Stan_sprinkle]

Microsoft half ass-ing things again. Go figure

[@marciawitt195]

sigh

[@BulbDigital]

you and me both

[@jangeiss8693]

BIG NEWS: Tasks asigned to me in Planner Premium plans start showing in the new planner in teams under "my tasks", as well as in MS To Do. This morning, nothing, but now they show up :) Finally

[@BulbDigital]

Hooray! :)

[@PC-hj4wg]

More crap from Microsoft

[@flightmode7655]

to be honest. the only reason i use microsoft 365 products is because my employer pays for the license. 🤷‍♂

[@BulbDigital]

We're mainly a MS shop and even we pay for other tools on occasion when they're better.

[@guitarchitectural]

@@BulbDigital I'd love to know which ones! We are a Google shop migrating to MS... And stuff like this makes my job of change management so much harder. I'd rather adopt the new/better tool now (Asana? Click up?) than have 200 frustrated users on my hands. We are dying for some good PM tools.

[@shirleysui1462]

From what I've seen Asana is muuch more customizable/flexible than planner (I don't have planner premium though so just comparing to base planner). I've been using Microsoft lists for our project, because we don't have Asana as an option and lists allows me to link data and track multiple statuses and create better visuals (although I'm using pivot tables and charts for that... By feeding data from Lists to excel... Because I tried fiddling around with Power BI and couldn't do some of the stuff I wanted to do)

[@BulbDigital]

We actually have one of our podcast episodes about it! www.bulb.digital/podcast/5-non-microsoft-apps-we-use We usually stick with MS tools for Project Management still. Usually Planner or Azure DevOps, and lately we can almost use Loop as a good substitute. I've personally played around with some of the other PM tools, not enough to be well enough informed to compare in detail, but enough to know Planner is behind :)

[@colindurbin.com_youtube]

The future is upon us. Has Microsoft begun using Copilot for product development? More layoffs on the horizon?

[@BulbDigital]

Copilot is our master now