NEW Research On The OLDEST MEDITERRANEAN BOATS Found So Far

[@LuisAldamiz]

Fascinating. Thank you very much for reporting this. However it must be said that these canoes (riverine in usage for the greatest part) are only the tip of the iceberg of ancient Mediterranean (and Atlantic European) navigation, surely second only in terms of prehistorical nautical skills to the Austronesians (whose absolutely amazing trans-oceanic feats are from a later period anyhow). These people (of Vasconic language, no doubt) did not only cross the Aegean and the Adriatic seas in their westward migration but also reached remote islands like Sardinia and the Balearics, and later also Britain, Ireland and as far as Orkney and Southern Sweden. There's been indications of deep sea fishing in terms archaeological and words like 'sardine'* and 'herring' are almost certainly (IMNSHO) of Vasconic roots, so they should have got bigger sailing vessels for blue sea navigation (you can only go so far by rowing and you can only carry so many sheep in a canoe, especially one crowded by rowers). Hopefully some day one of those seagoing vessels will be found (Black Sea may have got best low oxygen conditions for preserving such a piece but will be hard to find, also a bit peripheral for the Cardium-Megalithic or South Vasconic cultural area). In the meantime I remember some founded speculations about the ships being suggested to have one trunk-carved canoe as keel but elevated with sewed planks or leather (with the corresponding wooden structure). Furthermore, I'd say that Megalithism seems to demand some sort of cranes (and even pulleys?) in many cases (most obviously in the case of the Stonehenge lintels) and that these technologies (unproven so far but most likely) must have emerged first in the context of sailing, as you want something like that to raise and lower the sails. On a separate note, it must be mentioned that the other recovered artifacts (basketry and adzes) are absolutely beautiful and illustrative of the life in that period. Combined with the very "modern" town planning (rectangular homes, straight-ish streets, ample room in the middle as in a plaza ... urbanism of some sort, not very different from modern villages), suggests that they lived very much like our not so distant ancestors who actually lived in rural contexts). _______________ *sardin(a) (sardine) has an extensive Basque etymology IMO: it reads naturally as bank-maker (sard(a)-(g)in) and sar- the root of 'sarda', meaning "to enter", is everywhere, in sea and land contexts in the Basque and related vocabulary: sare (net), sarda (pitchfork, land context), sartu (to enter, root: "sar-"), etc. It's also almost certainly in toponimy like Sardinia and Cerdanya, or even in the Catalan dance of the sardana probably, which seems to mean "sar dana" = "everybody (gets) in", which is the essence of the dance, maybe of Neolithic roots. Arrain in Basque means "fish" (the etymology could be both ways but I strongly lean for it being Vasconic because Indoeuropeans were originally landlubbers and there is no IE etymology anyhow).

[@thierrybilson9634]

Appreciated. 👍

[@LuisAldamiz]

PS - Sardana is probably better read as "get in everyone" (imperative). Other readings are possible, as from "sarda" in the sense of "fish school" (not "bank", misled myself from Spanish "banco", heh!) 😅

[@Maungateitei]

We have a seven thousand year old shipwreck on Bayleys Beach in New Zealand. It is 180ft wide, and, though missing bow and stern sections, 440ft long. Probably would have been over 600ft long originally. Super tankers of today size. Obviously the Pacific cultures were far more advanced than the Mediterranean and Atlantic primitive neolithic people's at that time.

[@LuisAldamiz]

@@Maungateitei - I thought NZ used the metric system... Anyway, that sounds like an outlandish fantasy in all aspects, seriously.

[@Maungateitei]

@@LuisAldamiz since the early 1970s we have. However with so many illiterate innumerate, bewildered by anything outside their toxic hell hole of dirt Yanks around this place, I tend to indulge them with units they have a chance of comprehending... Well... Not often with temperatures. They can take Fahrenheit and shove it where the sun don't shine. In fact I am led to believe their pathetic excuses for health professionals often do. 🤔😉🤭

[@jimmumford4444]

Laura, thank you for keeping us so well informed of current discoveries.

[@MegalithHunter]

Thanks for watching Jim.

[@chrisbillington3341]

Straight forward. No fluff. Greatly enjoyed.

[@MegalithHunter]

Thanks a lot 😁

[@juanfranciscogibajabao1714]

Thank you again to show our reserarch in La Marmotta. And thank you for all comments. The author juan Gibaja

[@MegalithHunter]

It's a really interesting site. You have an amazing job!

[@vulpesvulpes5177]

Thing you need to remember is that stability of even a canoe is complicated. At least as complicated as making stone tools. They used to date stone tools as “recent” assuming them to be too complex for ancient man. Now we know that tools pre-dated our own species. So they find a boat and date it. That me be when that one was built. But clearly the technology is much older. How much is anybodies guess. Fox out

[@MegalithHunter]

Oh I don't doubt it. Could I get 30 feet down a river myself? Probably not. I can't even start a fire.

[@GurungyNoHamuster]

I always say "It was probably earlier" for any pre-historic stuff. Our genetic ancestors are at least 150,000 years old, so those people were as creative and clever as us. Early on there were close relative species who may also have had fire, tools and language etc. I have seen the "first" and "earliest" of just about everything getting earlier and earlier: music, language, writing, tools, etc. Was the Antikythera mechanism the 'earliest computer' for example? Undoubtedly not.

[@vulpesvulpes5177]

@@GurungyNoHamuster Why is it that people I agree with seem so smart?! Exactly right. I saw som papers being presented recently. Those dumb simple small brained Australopithecus had fire and were making stone hand axes 4 million years ago. 30-40 years ago “modern man”was 40-60,000 years old. Now we are as you say 150K. And people then were just as clever and motivated as we are today. Damn! Your sure smart, amigo! Fox ouy

[@barrywalser2384]

I missed the premiere. 😢Unavoidably detained. These are amazing survivors. I am always interested in the lives and experiences of ancient peoples. Thank You very much Laura!

[@vulpesvulpes5177]

Good to hear from you. Got to stay on your toes to keep from being overtaken by events these days! Fox out

[@barrywalser2384]

@@vulpesvulpes5177 Always good to see you in the comments! I’m trying to stay under the radar. 😄

[@MegalithHunter]

That's okay Barry! Thanks for watching as always.

[@justdoingitjim7095]

I remember reading recently that the premise of burning prior to scraping the dugouts was not as prevalent as previously thought. I wonder how many archaeologists just take it as a matter of "settled" science that all dugouts were burned before being scraped out?

[@vulpesvulpes5177]

Good question. We can question all the settled science as you say. We might also question those who correct what was “previously thought”. We once thought that both tools and fire were discovered by our own species. But that date just keeps getting pushed back. Now I think it’s in excess of 4 million years in association with Australopithecus. When it comes to dugouts I can’t recall seeing any cultural group using stone or metal tools that did not burn out the trunk as they hacked away. So I’d like to meet this wizard that can prove they did not do so. Got to apply a little common sense with our questions and questioning. Fox out

[@judewarner1536]

There has not been a generation of scientists in which certain, even famous individuals have been unable to let go of superseded ideas... Berzelius and Phlogiston Theory springs to mind. By the same token, there has not been a generation of scientists where the majority have not closed ranks against an individual who has an idea that calls into question a broadly held belief. Alfred Wegener and his theory of Continental Drift led to his exclusion from the brotherhood of geologists.

[@justdoingitjim7095]

It's that sense of "elitism" that permeates the ranks that keeps them from seeing past the ends of their collective noses! We have a similar problem in the ranks of elite politicians who think their job is to "rule" over the masses, instead of serving them!@@judewarner1536

[@jimcooper1647]

About 27 years ago I saw a local man, in a relatively remote region of northern Mozambique, in the process of making a dug out canoe. He was not using burning. He was using a very blunt steel pick axe, so not a tool available to our neolithic ancestors but perhaps not very different to a heavy stone axe or similar. He was simply bashing the wood, which he wanted to remove, as hard as he could to break it up and then more easily scrape/adze it out. Clearly such matters as how hard or soft was the wood will have been an issue. I do not know the characteristic (or type) of the tree trunk he was using. There some excellent local timbers we (or our local direct labour force) were using for road bridges. I am sure he will have had access to steel bladed knives for finishing so had some, if not ideal, modern tools. Nevertheless he was using a very crude but effective method, to hollow out the trunk, available to our ancesters but not fire - or stones heated to red heat. Incidently local clay with flattened (beer) tin cans for filling cracks and patching were in common use. These dug outs I saw inevitably had cracks developing and leaking was accepted provided it was within tolerable limits. Not speaking Chechewa or Macuwa (or much Portuguese) I was not able to question the boat builder.

[@nedthemumbler9942]

@@vulpesvulpes5177they done experiments and using stone hoes tended to be faster and less chance of destroying the dugout . Nativecfirst burned tips of arrows because it chars the wood which makes it harder so possibly make digging a burnt canoe harder to work.

[@chrisbricky7331]

Great presentation and analysis, thank you for your hard work. Shared to X.

[@MegalithHunter]

Thanks for sharing!

[@Maungateitei]

​@@MegalithHunterwhy do these excite you? This is primative rubbish compared to the 180ft wide, originally over 600ft long 7000year old shipwreck we have on Bayleys Beach in New Zealand. Is it that you are obsessed with what's in your own back yard, don't want to pay attention to the far more advance cultures of the Pacific at that time? Is it the ongoing politically driven myth myth of Western European exceptionalism that you are addicted to?

[@obsidianjane4413]

I love the cadence of your voice and the structure of your video essays. I don't know why this channel is only just now being recommended to me, but its the entry point for my subscription! Regards,

[@MegalithHunter]

Welcome aboard! Thank you! 😃

[@zabaleta66]

The fact she looks good too is always a bonus......

[@jessen00001]

Interesting 🎉 Thank you 😊

[@MegalithHunter]

You’re welcome 😊

[@sixeses]

Thanks Laura, be well.

[@MegalithHunter]

Thanks! You too.

[@garyworokevich2524]

I used to be involved in shipbuilding as an apprentice draftsman (not a very good one I'm afraid)

[@MegalithHunter]

Ooh you might be able to recognise some of the bits and bobs they think helped these boats move!

[@garyworokevich2524]

I'll do my best me lady.@@MegalithHunter

[@garyworokevich2524]

@@MegalithHunter I'll do my best me lady.

[@liamredmill9134]

As a carver, I love this subject,thanks for the in depth analysis and correct terminology.apparently the main technological development was from a straight one piece log to a board inserted in the stern as a false end which led to the first rudder,,and it was these inventions that gave a rolling logboat stability for choppy estuaries and turbulent sea voyages,thanks

[@GordonDonaldson-v1c]

Hi, Liam. Are you referring to transverse sternboards like the ones found on the (admittedly more recent) dugouts found near the River Tay?

[@californianorma876]

👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽 and thank you for explaining how many years ago that was. I almost stopped to ask Uncle Google. 🤦🏽‍♀️ I watch you whenever the world starts spinning too fast. 🙏🏽🙏🏽🙏🏽

[@LordDustinDeWynd]

Howdy from Temple, Texas, USA! Howz y'all?

[@sebastienloyer9471]

🎉. Allô allô from Alberta Canada

[@Oluinneachain]

Great stuff thanks. The 4000 year old oak Lurgan canoe installed in the National museum of Ireland is 14 m long. And was lake bound.

[@jessen00001]

3:50 Agree its fascinating to ponder about 😊

[@JackFrost-k7y]

Maybe those canoes were yoked together like a Cat, to carry more cargo?

[@MegalithHunter]

Yeah, the paper does suggest that. That's probably what those objects with the holes were for.

[@thierrybilson9634]

@@MegalithHunter Wharram catamarans might be worth a look. Both hulls don't always need to be the same size or anything like the same size. There is a fully functional catamaran in the Pacific, a copy of a very old vessel, that moves the mast when tacking rather than going-about. Resulting, in effect, in the vessel going backwards but at 90degrees (or thereabouts) to its previous path.

[@newman653]

I look forward to every new episode 👍

[@MegalithHunter]

Thank you!

[@piergaay]

I am very pleased by the amount of knowledge you have about ancient boats! Quite often people who are interested in history and achreology lack such knowledge and often start fantacising things. In most cased however the skills our ancesters had is simply ignored completely.

[@inmyopinion6836]

How do you do this , you are brilliant! 😮

[@Darisiabgal7573]

This site is extemely important given the relative lack of archaeology in Italy pertaining to the Neolithic. Much of the neolithic was focused on the Po valley which later human occupation and farming have left a death of residual materials.

[@maryjones5710]

Maori, in Aotearoa, New Zealand had generational jobs, passed down through the families. One would have forest knowledge, or particularly of Trees, suitable for canoe making. They found the right tree, talked to it and harvested it, brought it out of the forest to the next team, maybe slaves, who would transport it to it's carving place. The carvers would have gone through days of cleansing of mind, body and spirit, before any work was attempted.

[@judewarner1536]

Throughout history there have been groups, often family groups, who have pretended to "mysterious" knowledge associated with certain practical functions and trades. The knowledge, of course, was real; it was the attendant ceremonies that were claimed to be an essential part of the process that formed the mystery and excluded those not in the know. The Elusinean Mysteries, mediaeval, and modern City of London Guilds, Freemasons, and even modern apprenticeships are all part of this arc.

[@frank-y8n]

Some watercraft will have been necessary for people to reach Australia about 65ky ago and possibly earlier.

[@thomasv2577]

Weird that the canoe's were mada from all different kinds of wood

[@alanpeachey4085]

Thank you for being you history is everything. Regards Al down under. Simply fabulous

[@MegalithHunter]

Glad you enjoyed it!

[@judewarner1536]

I am polling a range of archaeological creators, but in my 8th decade find it slightly difficult to keep track of certain overarching factors. There are so many sub-periods often designated by particular geographical areas while being part of the same age that it is sometimes difficult to remember which overarching time-frame they fall into. Bizarrely, I tend to remember the minutiae of each site, while losing track of the larger picture! The introduction with a simple reminder of the period referenced by "the neolithic" was useful. Shortly, thereafter, reference was made to the Mesolithic and a reminder of the approximate dates covered by that period would have been handy. Of course it's not helped by the fact that widely separated geographical areas in the same time-frame might simultaneously represent the neolithic in one place, the chalcolithic in another and the bronze age in a third!

[@MegalithHunter]

Good point. I will think of that in my next video.

[@oldschool1993]

Abandoned because of rising lake level?? " Hey Guido let's scram the lake is rising fast" " Hey Aldo why don't we flee in the boat?"

[@madderhat5852]

What an amazing find. Why does everything sound better in Italian?

[@MegalithHunter]

It's a beautiful language. I ruin it with my British accent when I go there though :)

[@storkythepunk]

Lordy! how many times did you say Canoe? you deserve a medal, great video though, at least you didn't make any trunks jokes lol.

[@MegalithHunter]

HAHAHA!

[@nickburningham5143]

The width was probably measured in the midbody rather than the stern. Rudders are unlikely at such an early date. Canoes are usually steered using a paddle in the stern.

[@MegalithHunter]

From the text: '1.15m wide at the stern and 0.85m wide at the bow'

[@nickburningham5143]

OK. I didn't see that in the drawing, and it is unusual. Presumably the canoe's shape reflects the shape of the tree trunk. I wonder whether there is an assumption about which is the bow which might not have been carefully tested?. Cross-culturally it is more normal to have the wider. lower, end of the trunk forward.@@MegalithHunter

[@Mark-xv5lb]

Epipalaeolithic sites claimed on Cyprus.

[@aliuyar6365]

thanks

[@MegalithHunter]

Welcome!

[@LordDustinDeWynd]

Be back at 1345 Central US time!! This will be cool!

[@scottzema3103]

There is also Egypt as the focus of an early boat building society as early as the Mesolithic. Predynastic pottery vessels 4th millenium BC show elaborate oar driven boats of the same type as found next to Khufu's tomb. A culture that is totally dependent on boats for travel like Egypt had to have had an ancient water going tradition as there was no other easy means of travel in their country.

[@liamredmill9134]

Burning wooden spearpoints hardens them,maybe they thought burning boats with resin/tar strengthened/sealed the wood,as opposed to a means of following the tree trunks?

[@colinjameslichtwark513]

Remarkably similar technology to the pacific island cultures

[@futuristica1710]

The intro made me think this was an older clip from 1997.

[@waynesworldofsci-tech]

What I’d really be interested in is African boats. I’m wondering when boats were first used to avoid the dangers of crocodiles and hippopotamus by not getting their feet wet.

[@LuisAldamiz]

Of course. The first place where humans boated was definitely in Africa; there's a lot of indirect evidence, beginning with a Sudanese island of the Nile (Sai?, can't recall) where there's a lot of evidence of early Middle Paleolithic settlement (one of the possible, even likely, places where early Homo sapiens lived). But then there is the issue of crossing Bab el Mandeb into Yemen and beyond c. 125,000 years ago, well documented by the spread of the Nubian technology from Sudan to Yemen, as well as some other MSA sites in Eritrea and Qatar, which was one of two routes taken by our kin the out-of-Africa migration (the other being from Egypt to Palestine, surely by land but strongly associated to coastal resources: shells used for necklaces or other ornaments, which show up in Palestine and North Africa insistently in those dates).

[@waynesworldofsci-tech]

@@LuisAldamiz I’m interested in the further past. I’m doing a review of the literature covering a certain time period, and rivers came up a lot as possible migration blocks.

[@LuisAldamiz]

@@waynesworldofsci-tech - Not in our Homo sapiens timeline, really: they may be secondary borders but they were crossed over and over, and seas as well, since the very beginning of "advanced" Humanity some 200 Ka ago in Africa. Deserts and great mountain ranges, and of course the large seas, were the real barriers. It is documented that even Neanderthals boated to certain islands off the shore, that somehow H. erectus (senso lato) arrived to Crete (never connected to the mainland) or that Corsica and Cyprus were reached in the late Paleolithic. On the other hand chimpanzees and bonobos don't ever swim and it's surely the mighty Congo river which keeps them apart from each other and secures that bonobos survive their more aggressive cousins (not us but common chimps). Maybe you mean that kind of distant past, i.e. before we can be said to be humans at all?

[@waynesworldofsci-tech]

@@LuisAldamiz That’s the problem - we don’t know.

[@LuisAldamiz]

@@waynesworldofsci-tech - But I'm saying the opposite: we do know, rivers were not borders but alleys and even seas were crossed.

[@channel_archistoriac]

I read it is dated to like 7000 years ago. How could it preserve so good in the sea while even boats of like 2000 agoes do not preserve...

[@peteregan3862]

Interesting to compare with Australian Aboriginal technology and that of American indian and others.

[@chesterfinecat7588]

9 meters makes for a ripping sailboat.

[@Amenogoogle]

👍

[@jimgillert20]

👍😎

[@GordonDonaldson-v1c]

Down the River Arrone to the sea, not up the river. Why do people always get this wrong?

[@donaldlococo954]

If those highly sophisticated boats are the oldest ever, I imagine the first boats go back many millennia. We may never know. It is the very nature of science that with each discovery we gain greater insight into our comprehensive ignorance.

[@2011Matz]

"Down" the river, to the sea, not up.

[@MegalithHunter]

Thnx 😅

[@the_Kurgan]

Well, I'm just into the beginning, but she's jumped from finding boats in a lake to people were navigating the Mediterranean. Seems like quit a stretch.

[@CharlesMatheson-w1z]

Ok, so the water level rises, and they left their boats???, That doesn't make any sense at all, if the water level is rising, even rapidly, their canoes would be the safest to be, and if it was a massive flash flood, the canoes would have been washed away. Nope something else had to have happened.

[@thomasdykstra100]

0:49: "Very little is known about prehistoric seafaring, although it’s clear it had to have taken place." ...Not to mention Noah's Ark.