NEW!: The SECRETS of Ovenspring and Baking Temperatures

How do you get great ovenspring? This extraordinary video is a master class on the impact of baking temperatures on ovenspring. The most detailed sourdough baking video ever created, this six-loaf experiment examines every aspect of sourdough baking and debunks many myths.
- Do you need to preheat your dutch oven?
- Do you need to bake at high temperatures?
- Do you need to preheat for one hour?
- How long do you need to bake with steam?
- Does high temperature produce the best ovenspring?
- Are all dutch ovens the same?
- Does dutch oven size and color impact baking times?
Learn the answers to these and other questions, and learn the skills required to make adjustments to your baking times to achieve ultimate ovenspring in your loaves!
All of the videos on The Sourdough Journey are scientifically repeatable experiments. All the details are provided so you could produce the same results at home. These are the only videos produces at this level of rigor. The videos are long. Use the chapter breaks to move through sections if you prefer.
WEBSITE
Learn more at The Sourdough Journey at thesourdoughjourney.com
PRODUCTS
Find products used in this video at thesourdoughjourney.com/produ...
CHAPTERS
PART 1: OVENSPRING AND BAKING
0:00 Introduction
1:43 What is Ovenspring
2:49 How do you get great ovenspring?
7:15 What does ovenspring look like in the oven?
7:51 Popular Baking Methods
10:59 The Six Loaves
13:34 The Impact of Preheating
18:28 Measuring Baking Temperatures
23:57 The Baking Process: 3 Temperature Points
PART 2: THE EXPERIMENT
34:13 The Experiment
36:46 Loaf #1: 400F/204C Bake
41:02 Announcement: New Thermodynamics Department
45:03 Loaf #2: Cold Start Method
51:47 Loaf #3: Standard Tartine Bake
57:21 Loaf #4: Preheat at 500F/260C for 60 min
1:02:00 Loaf Cooling Temperatures
1:03:13 Three Types of Heat Transfer
1:07:03 Loaf #5: Preheat at 500F/260C Small DO
1:09:05 Loaf #6: Preheat to 550F/288C Small DO
PART 3: FINDINGS AND RECOMMENDATIONS
1:14:24 Comparison of Loaves
1:21:09 Cutting the Loaves
1:28:58 Dutch Oven Size and Baking Temperatures
1:30:09 Adjusting Baking Temperatures for DO Size
1:31:58 The Impact of DO Size on Ovenspring
1:32:41 The Mystery of Loaf #5
1:35:08 Findings and Recommendations

[@brookcodyprice]

By far, one of the best sourdough videos on KZbin, if not the best, regarding oven spring and temperatures.

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thank you!

[@jessicastacey2046]

I'm blown away by your videos. Just what many of us sourdough geeks dream of but don't all have the committment and scientific vigilance to carry out! Grateful that you were inspired to take this journey and to share it with the world. So much great knowledge to be absorbed from all your videos. Thank you.

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thank you! I really appreciate the feedback. I wish I had time to do even more experiments. Also check out my new website at thesourdoughjourney.com Lots of additional great content there.

[@lindsaysketokitchen9077]

Yes!!! Ditto!

[@dandooon99]

Oh Tom .. I've been searching for the best cooking temperature for sourdough for more than 3 yrs.. finally i find it 👌👌 .. you deserve so much appreciation from sourdough community

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thank you! I appreciate the feedback.

[@WhatWeDoChannel]

Wow, that was a lot of work, it’s appreciated! I’m a long time bread baker but new on this sour dough journey, it’s a different kettle of fish! My take home message from this video is that I need to work on the 80% factor…..proofing! I’m using the Le Crueset bread cloche for my sour dough, I have yet to see a real baker use one on KZbin, hint hint!

[@lindsaysketokitchen9077]

Yes!!! So very helpful!

[@lisal.1962]

What a PHENOMENAL educational segment! You are an amazing, helpful, extremely intelligent guy! The fact that you went out of your way, spent hours and hours of assembling this information, creating the video and all of the slides/information.....I'm in awe of you! Thank you SO much for doing all you do! I love all of your videos!! We all appreciate your efforts! 😊

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thank you so much. I appreciate the feedback.

[@dani.rose_]

I watched this more than once. Wow, so much information, I truly appreciate your hard work.

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thank you!

[@GarlandStringedInstruments]

Really useful research here, Tom, thanks a lot for being so thorough. I've learned a lot and will be applying it from now on!

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thank you!

[@Russian5]

I'm finding this, and your other videos, so helpful. So informative, resulting in more efficient and better tasting sourdough. Thanks for all you've done on your channel.

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thank you so much. I appreciate the support.

[@ujust8]

OMG I’ve been trying to learn how to make sourdough bread while recovering from surgery. I’ve watch so many KZbin videos in the last 5 weeks. Yours are the very best. Thank you so much. You have addressed so many of the problems I’ve had, right down to the pot size question. Love, love, love. And, your videos are not too long. Adore the scientists in your lab! 😄

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thank you! I appreciate the feedback.

[@olivepressdesign]

Amazing video. Such detail, so informative and great humor. I really learnt so much, and I watched from beginning to end. A true testament to your ability to communicate information. Great job Tom. Thank you so much for sharing everything.

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thank you so much. I appreciate the feedback.

[@Alex-ck4in]

Your channel is surely going to explode with viewers soon, your content is so valuable. Thanks for all the effort you put in!

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thank you. I appreciate the feedback. I spent two years really building out the content and now with my new website at thesourdoughjourney.com and on Instagram, I'm promoting the content. Thank you for the support.

[@Bozemancurtis]

Great video. Thank you for putting so much work into this.

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thank you!

[@AndyReadGuitar]

Easily the most informative, detailed, exhaustive video on this process; well done, and your time and effort is very appreciated! 👏🙏

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thanks for the feedback.

[@dani.rose_]

I love your channel. I’m so glad I found your channel. This is so fascinating.

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thank you!

[@alexmuntyan4388]

Thank you!!! You made the most helpful and detailed video

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thank you. Also check out my new website at thesourdoughjourney.com

[@lbamusic]

As usual, a great set of useful, informative experiments from the Midwest Sourdough Institute!! I really eat this stuff up and can't get enough!! many thanks to you again !!

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thank you for watching. I appreciate the feedback.

[@classicalbean]

Thanks for being so meticulous about the experiment (even cooling and reheating the Dutch oven) and explaining the relationship between temperatures and what happening inside the loaf. ❤thank you.

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thank you!

[@emmabaido458]

Another fabulous, educational video. Love that you cover every single aspect and include it in your videos. Thank you. Glad you had some extra staff members helping you out this time 😉

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thanks!

[@jimfromri]

I can’t thank you enough for running these experiments and making such a detailed video of the process and the results. Clearly it must have been a ton of work. But I’m thrilled with all I’ve learned from watching the video and can’t wait to put these lessons into practice.

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thank you. I appreciate the feedback. I worked on this for over 3 months and it was one of the most complex experiments I’ve done.

[@AMSanchez18]

@@thesourdoughjourney your work is very appreciated👍🏽 Today I baked with lower temperature and used your parchment paper trick, it really did impact the oven spring. Thank you from Denmark 🇩🇰

[@tnweed]

Congratulations on the new division, A truly must in a respected institute like yours 😂 Just love the sense of humor! Thank you very much on the effort in all your videos!

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thank you! I appreciate the feedback.

[@markmills5869]

Tom thanks you are a legend. love your presentation style. information packed and just enough humour. The findings and recommendations is pure gold. thank you again.

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thank you for the feedback. I really appreciate it.

[@candywalker483]

Great help. Appreciate your hard work and scientific approach.

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thanks for the feedback. I appreciate it. You can find a written summary of this video here. thesourdoughjourney.com/the-secrets-of-baking-temperature-and-ovenspring/

[@boonchyelim8598]

Excellent video, I can't thk you enough for generously sharing yr knowledge with the community. Kudos.

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thank you for the feedback. I appreciate it.

[@teod.2779]

Thank you, Tom! A lot of valuable information! I was expecting your findings regarding the size of the Dutch oven. ;) I appreciate all your work and the way you present it.

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thank you. I appreciate the feedback. And thanks for watching. This was a long one, but I wanted to capture everything on this topic in one place.

[@chefforrest]

Great video. Thanks for all the work.

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thank you.

[@lynnperton9126]

Really appreciated you in depth video.

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thanks!

[@legallycurated1796]

amazing content....ty for dispelling baking myths

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thank you!

[@michellecaudill7936]

Wow, thanks for all your hard work and effort. That was very interesting.

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thank you.

[@foodbodSourdough]

What a great video, thank you so much for including my cold bake method. The comparisons are great to see side by side 🤩

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thank you! I’ve tried your cold bake method a few times now with good results every time. I also have an interesting Timelapse video of the loaf rising using the cold bake method (not included in the video). I’ll post this on one of the Facebook groups next week.

[@foodbodSourdough]

@@thesourdoughjourney great! Please do tag me 👍🏻👍🏻

[@ntc9499]

Hi your experiments are great thank you! I live in the UK and use Elaine’s method (no more burns from loading dough thank you Elaine x) however I use a Falcon enamel roasting pan as a Dutch oven rather than cast iron - I think that’s what Elaine uses too? So it would heat up much quicker than a traditional Dutch oven

[@lauracooper6549]

I somehow missed this one! Can’t wait to watch! Thank you :)

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thanks. I really enjoyed making this one.

[@lauracooper6549]

@@thesourdoughjourney I got quite the chuckle out of the mad scientists in your lab 😂

[@skippee101]

I have learned so much from this. Thank you so much for sharing it.

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thank you!

[@rejuveniledelinquent3522]

The amount of work you put into this is astonishing. This is a fantastic video and absolutely invaluable. This video should be a reference point for anyone looking to dig into the nuance of sourdough baking. Thank you so much!

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thank you. I appreciate the feedback. Also check out my website.

[@kdross6328]

Excellent treatise on sourdough thermodynamics. You explained something that it took me a while, and a couple of ruined bakes, to discover: As you said, you can never heat a loaf above boiling temperature - except after destroying it by removing all the moisture. The important thing to also know is that boiling temperature is not necessarily 212 F. It varies with altitude. 212 F is the boiling temperature at sea level. Up where I live, at 6,700 above sea level, the boiling point is about 198 F, so I am happy to get an internal temperature above 195 or so -- and never expect much higher. The problem is, that if you look up - "When is bread properly done?", the answers don't factor in altitude, and will have high elevation people chasing an impossible goal.

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thanks! That is a great point. I should have mentioned that in the video. I will cover it in an upcoming video.

[@MarkKrebs]

Do you find it cooks quicker than expected? I do. Also seems to get bone dry inside. Another aside, I've been recommended to put an ice cube in the dutch oven along with the dough, to add more steam. Have you heard that one?

[@DANVIIL]

Excellent and useful information and thanks for all of your work on this video

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thank you! I appreciate the feedback.

[@andreas5563]

Fantastic video, great work!

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thanks a lot!

[@cktse_jp]

Thanks for the detailed treatise on the science of baking temp, super educational!

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thank you.

[@rybyakov]

Another awesome video, thanks!

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thank you!

[@MzTreeLdy]

I love EVERYTHING about this! Thank you! ❤

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thank you!

[@winewoman224]

Thank you for scientifically validating what I’ve felt for years with my bread baking.

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thank you for the feedback. I appreciate it.

[@tammyczigan1864]

Wow. Thank you for doing such a meticulous experiment. I've never baked sourdough, and am grateful to have found you before starting. I love your methodical approach. You have taken apprehension and guesswork out of the baking process for me!

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thank you. Also check out my website at thesourdoughjourney.com Lots of great info there too.

[@meliskitchenette83]

Thank you so much for sharing these great experiments. It was well explained in details for easy understanding. Greatly appreciate it, it would take ages for us to explore it on our own. Bravo for a good job and Thank You 👍🏻

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thank you so much. I appreciate the feedback.

[@Beentherebefore1]

Thank you for such intense measuring. This was so stinking interesting. A big thank you.

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thank you for the feedback. I appreciate it.

[@lolajacomino6574]

Thank you for sharing your work with us. We learn a lot with you. You make it look easy but I know it takes a lot of time and effort. Thank you Tom ❤

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thank you. I appreciate the feedback.

[@lenac2284]

This is fantastic! Thank you so much!

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thank you!

[@magelinekelley7536]

I watched the entirety of this video and came away much learned than I was 2 hours ago. I hope to remember all of it. Thank you for this thorough investigation and experimentation. I’m sure the world of beginning sourdough bakers find it very useful as are your other videos.

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thank you. Here is a summary of the key points. thesourdoughjourney.com/the-secrets-of-baking-temperature-and-ovenspring/

[@alfontana6242]

Tom thanks for your very informative video. You cover all the bases in all the variables in baking. I always pickup something new when I watch your videos. With electric and natural gas rates on the rise I was really impressed how you baked from a cold oven at 450 degrees and that resulted in a nice loaf of bread. I think I am going to give that one a try, and it sure would save some money in using less energy. Thanks again Tom for all the work you put into your videos. No one on KZbin does it like you do when It comes to sourdough bread.

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thank you. I was also surprised that the cold start method with no preheating worked.

[@fearlessjake465]

This guy is as enthusiastic about bread just as much as a math teacher teaching calculus to a classroom full of half awake kids

[@thesourdoughjourney]

You should see some of my boring videos.

[@cherokeejack7757]

I taught culinary arts to students for years at a prestigious culinary school. 60% of the students were very enthusiastic, most were paying their own way and worked hard. 30% were students who showed up occasionally, studied never, never worked in food service. This 30% couldn’t even balance their checkbooks. A career in culinary arts is made up the use of mathematics and most of those 30%’rs couldn’t find a percentage if they had to. These were destined to fail and find a good government job. Went through 12 years of school and have no basic math skills. That happens in public schools where you have mostly unenthusiastic instructors and students that think success is given out like a trophy they never earned. I thing this channel is the best I’ve seen on the subject of baking bread. Go watch one of those guys who have photos of great bread, but have to use commercial yeast to get a rise.

[@CamilleBrazell]

I'm not looking for a cheerleader, I'm looking for a knowledgeable teacher. He's that in spades!

[@2k_]

this is fantastic. Thank you for your efforts and valuable infos.

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thanks 🙏

[@giyengar]

This is SO GOOD, Tom!

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thank you. Some of my best work.

[@sharkguyjean]

VERY Informative..Now I gotta go rethink my whole baking process but have some good info to work with. Thanks from Central Texas Tom!

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thank you!

[@shelly2758]

You are the man! My first loaf was a brick. LOL! I’m doing the second loaf now. I reduced the to 425, Bake time will be longer. I didn’t have high expectations. I’ll eventually figure out my variables . You are so right in speaking about everyone’s equipment and loaf are different. It’s not a one size fits all. If nothing else, I’m having so much fun trying ! Thanks, Tom !

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thanks you. Good luck!

[@mikesousa8367]

Thank you so much for all your hard work, that I don't need to do now. So many of my questions answered, and ones I didn't know I needed to ask. I am going to change the things that have been plaguing my oven spring, and I hope this will bring to an end my disappointing outcomes. thanks again Mike Sousa

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thanks. Let me know how it works out.

[@viktoriapeterson489]

Great set of experiments. Like your temperature writeups. In the list of necessary elements for success in spring, I was surprised that you did not mention a well-fed active starter.

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thanks. Good point. I should have included that!

[@debrafrederick5300]

Bravo! What amazing and tedius experimentation, to help us all understand the science. Thank you! This was very helpful!

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thank you!

[@nataliaprokhorova8714]

Thank you so much! Just brilliant!

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thank you! I appreciate the feedback.

[@nicholasloverde5932]

Hey Tom have been taking in all your info from your videos from start to finish , your title is perfect because it has been a sour dough journey for sure after struggling with the starter you made it perfectly understandable.. be patient.. making some great loafs for friends and family .. now too brush up on putting my starter on hold ! Thanks again . Nick from New York 👍🏻

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thank you, Nick. Also check out my website. I’ve organized the content there a bit better than on KZbin. Thesourdoughjourney.com

[@nicholasloverde5932]

Thanks Tom I’ll check it out for sure ! Be well my friend .. 👍🏻

[@Blue-Kayak]

Thank you so much for putting all of this together. I am going to start using my infrared thermometer and experiment with the cold start method.

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thanks. The infrared thermometer to test the Dutch oven temp gives very, very consistent results.

[@stellarstories]

Thank you very much. Peace and health and great cooking to you & all.

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thank you.

[@user-gm8yv1xr1k]

Hi Tom, when I heard you say the International Institute etc. etc. I thought no way, then you said your kitchen, I decided to listen on. I am so glad I did, you answered many of my questions. I have been baking sourdough bread for several years, with some limited success. I have kept going, because it is enjoyable. Thank you for taking the time to put this long video together. I believe it will help many people to have more joy in baking bread. I found the lower temperatures very interesting, as I use several heavy flours on high temperatures I get little oven spring. I think it is in the fermentation process. So I will progress down these lines. Thank you once again, a very interesting video.

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thank you! I appreciate the feedback.

[@jimoray3]

You are phenomenal. Your teaching content is outstanding. Thank you! I’ve discovered that my oven temps are critical at time of preheat and bake. We are at 7,000 feet above sea level and no humidity therefore I have in pediments. I’m learning. Thank you

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thank you! I appreciate the feedback. Also check out my website for more info. thesourdoughjourney.com/encyclopedia/

[@kenworthington1312]

I learned a lot, as usual. Glad I watched until the end! I have 2 different size DOs and use parchment paper. Some great info on those issues! Thanks for your dedication and thoroughness.

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thank you? This was a long one, but so much info to cover.

[@kenworthington1312]

@@thesourdoughjourney Ha! Yes, that was meant as a compliment. Because of your thoroughness I now have two options to deal with my smaller DO. I can keep using slightly oversize parchment paper or put the smaller one in later during the preheat. That was a remarkable catch by you!

[@27kjh]

Thanks for all your work, it’s so helpful. I just tried the cold method and got decent oven spring. What I liked the best was the texture of the crust…it was so crispy.

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thanks!

[@ivicakolomejac9994]

Truly Sourdough Academy and You are the Master Teacher! Thanks

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thank you!

[@jeanneknight4791]

This video is brillant for many reasons. You have answered questions lurking in the back of my own mind. The more one reads and the more one folows various content, the more insecurities arise. You have managed to answer so many questions! I've had some reservations about parchment paper because it prevents the sides of my loaf from browning but now you have given me another reason to change the way I use it. I am thinking about making a sling to lower smaller rounds of it into the preheated pot. You are committed to using cast iron. I have misplaced my Le Creuset or maybe I gave it away when I last moved. I found an old aluminum dutch oven without a lid in the garage that my father probably found at a yard sale. I then found a lid that fits but I suspect that this 100 year old pot wasn't ever completely round so I don't get a proper seal. I had reservations about aluminum because of the heat retention but it is light weight! I then started using my stainless steel stockpot which is very well made and I have fantastic results. People are hesitant on stainless steel for several reasons but I believe these are unfounded. Either they are using light weight steel pots bought in discount stores or they think there is some chemical change with the acid in the dough. Preposterous! I would never keep my starter in a metal container but baking is another matter. The other plus for using the steel stock pot is that it doesn't weigh as much as the cast iron. This is a consideration for people such as myself who have limits on what they can lift or carry. Thanks for your dedication and hard work in bringing us useful information!

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Stainless steel is fine. It is not a reactive metal. Thanks for sharing. Some people also have good luck with enameled roasting pans.

[@DjenTufo]

Tom, You are my Hero, my saviour and my inspiration.

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thank you so much.

[@gershhayes796]

I love these videos, when I see "oven spring and baking temperatures " 1hr45min..lol I listen while I work and I think I'm getting more from osmosis than anything else. Thank you for making these , it's an amazing amount of work.

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thank you. I appreciate the feedback. This one took me three months of testing and prep.

[@sourdoughin3steps]

excellent video Tom! so many good insights and conclusions!

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thank you!

[@andersenchiangmai]

You are really providing usefull comparisons that nobody else provide. Good proof that baking temperature and time have little effect on the final product quality....

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thanks for the feedback. I have a lot of great new content coming out in the next few months. Stay tuned.

[@chevpowr]

learned an immense amount of knowledge thanks to you. extremely thankful for your videos. also i purchased some amazing flour thanks to one of your other videos. cheers

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thank you!

[@teod.2779]

Hi, Tom! I missed your lessons and experiments! I was wondering what took you so long... I will watch this new video in a few hours!

[@thesourdoughjourney]

I’ve been working on this one for 3 months.

[@teod.2779]

@@thesourdoughjourney OMG! A lot of research! As always!

[@ThePhilbox]

Tom, you are just killing it man....I've improved my bread dramatically through my studies at the institute. The loafs I bake now, well...I think the cool kids would approve. If i didn't have two small children to feed Id send a pile of money. Your explorations and teaching are unmatched. You deserve to be sourdough famous, that's for sure.

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thank you. I appreciate the feedback!

[@geraldinemcguire1698]

Fascinating. Answered a lot of questions. Less parchment paper, less preheating. Lower temperature. And it all depends.😊

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thank you.

[@smartcookie3500]

Impressive. Beautiful loaves. You are the Project Farm of sourdough! 👍

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thanks. I was not familiar with Project Farm. I love it!

[@jeremynicoletti9060]

You, Sir, are a true bread nerd. Thanks for sharing your findings.

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thank you. I take that as the highest compliment!

[@yougkuan9198]

This was a lot of work in terms of preparations and energy input but also some very interesting revelations. Learned so much more again! Really appreciated this and Thank You for this share! Kudos ;D

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thanks. I appreciate the feedback.

[@southafricanrhino]

Congratulations on expanding the Institute with two great new staff. I am looking forward to more good sourdough science being produced in the future ;)

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thank you!

[@jessicacwo]

I really appreciate your video. I am still a bit far from getting my loaves this consistent. I would be thrilled if my loaves turned out anything like any of these. Will keep watching, learning and experimenting.

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thank you. Also check out my website. Lots more info there.

[@jkaznosky]

Donated. Thank you for Bulk-o-Matic and in general, using scientific method to assist in baking. As a nerd, I love it.

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thank you! I appreciate the feedback and the support.

[@facelessman3685]

Thank you for the Video and the time you put into the science of Sourdough. Your new staff are a huge help! I've only made 12 loaves of sourdough and the biggest change for me came when I started using the cold retard on number 11 and 12. Prior to this video, I was pre-heating my pan for 45 minutes, and I was leaving the lid on. Thanks for the great science of sourdough.

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thanks for the feedback. I appreciate it.

[@artsymargo]

Thank you, Tom. I'm trying hard to economize in every sensible way, so I was most interested in loaf #2 with no preheating. Good comparison with your 25 min. preheat and that the cold method doesn't really save any time, but my oven (gas, about 13 years old) takes about 45 mins. to preheat to 500. You have provided the scientific method work and explanation to give me confidence to try this no-preheat method with my sluggish oven, which could potentially save me 20 mins. of my time and energy costs (albeit, probably less than $1).

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thank you. Let me know if it works for you.

[@goatquilter]

I love this video. I have learned so much from watching your videos. About the tables at he end of the video. Are you going to put them on your website?

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thank you! That’s a great idea. I’ll post it in the next few weeks. You can also pause the video and take a screen shot of each page. But I’m adding a new section to the website for short synopses of the videos so I’ll include it there.

[@goatquilter]

@@thesourdoughjourney thank you. That would be much appreciated.

[@Peace-Out_Studio]

The best no bullshit-information about sourdough. Learned a lot, big thanx! Your thoughts about the relationship between the time it takes for the starter to peak, and the bulk fermantation time?

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thank you. I haven’t done a lot of research on that. The starter doesn’t include salt, the flour blend may be different, and the hydration is different, so there is not a direct parallel. I’m planning to do more work on fermentation times this fall/winter so I may look into this at that time. Thanks! Also, check out my new website at thesourdoughjourney.com for more info.

[@BakersBiscuit]

Wow. Great video. I have a sourdough loaf in the fridge right now. I really want to try the cold method tomorrow, now that I've watched your experiments...

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thanks. Good luck!

[@brendaleetaylor9566]

This video is outstanding and I believe will solve an issue I have had because of the darn parchment paper! I NEVER would have realized this was a problem! Thank you for that. I also believe I need to turn down my baking temp because I have suspected that sometimes my bread can't quite spring all the way because of the exact cause your #6 loaf didn't spring all the way. The crust forms before it has time to finish the spring! Can't wait to test this out tomorrow! You are amazing! Love your humor by the way!

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thanks. Let me know how it works out.

[@pedroruizpoyatos8367]

Hola Tom desde España no tengo nada como agradecerte tú generosidad en cada video que nos enseñas el místico resultado de la unión agua-harina,entre otras cosas.... Muchas gracias.

[@thesourdoughjourney]

gracias por los comentarios. Lo aprecio!

[@markacyr]

The little parchment base inside of a parchment sling (that you cans slide out) is genius!

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thanks. 🙏

[@Sqwifeve]

Very informative. Another gadget to buy but seems worth it. I'm not buying a bigger Dutch oven, just using what I have. I think you are teaching me a lot by your experiments so I thank you.

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thanks! If you use a small Dutch oven try slightly lowering the temp, as an experiment.

[@user-ti1ov4yy9z]

I am really learning from your experiments. I'm on my third loaf and am using a covered enamel roasting pan with a trivet under my parchment until I find a thrift store DO. So far I have gotten good crust, but not much spring and baking lid on 35 min at 450. 25 min lid off. Maybe because of my oven or pan. Still figuring out my best recipe. This last loaf I think I used too much starter (125g) and may have overproofed. I finally saw your info on the amount of starter ratio to flour so I should have looked first. Shocking about the parchment and now I have an understanding about my pan and results I've gotten so far. Thanks for all these great details.

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thanks!

[@TomFoolery9001]

Awesome video! Do you have any that cover changes to make for a thinner crispier crust vs a thicker chewier one?

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thank you. I have not done a lot of experiments on that, but generally I’d try leaving the lid on the Dutch oven longer for a softer, thinner crust. Also, longer cold fermentation (2-3 days) typically produces a softer crumb and crust. Lastly, adding some oil to the dough will produce a softer crust and crumb.

[@TomFoolery9001]

@@thesourdoughjourney thanks, I have had some success with dropping my temperature from say 480 to 350 after the first 15 minutes. That seems to get me good oven spring followed by a more gentle temperature that seems to give me a thinner crust.

[@PodsofWar]

I just moved into a tiny house, and I opted to not buy an oven. I'm working w/ a ninja speedi. I've been successful at baking sourdough in it even though it maxes out at 400 degrees. I was searching 400 degree sourdough recipes when this popped up! You're right, you're just about the only person on the internet who says it can be done at a lower temp. Thank you for this :) It's really helped my experiments!

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thanks!

[@1misago]

Thank you for these carefully thought out, meticulous experiments. It's encouraging to discover that there is a great deal of leeway with regard to baking conditions, allowing us to focus more on the criteria that matter most, such as fermentation and handling. I use a pizza steel, over which I place a GN (Gastronorm) pan. These are relatively cheap, stainless steel catering pans, available in a variety of sizes. My one is 0.7mm gauge, rated to 300°C with internal dimensions of 31cm wide x 34cm long x 15cm deep. It's 12.5 litres in volume and 1.06kg in weight and can comfortably fit a large loaf with plenty of air space for convection. I like the versatility of a pizza steel and GN pan, because I can use them in the following combinations: (i) Steel on its own for pizza , (ii) Add the GN pan, in which case I also spray the inside of the pan with water once just before placing it over the steel to ensure that plenty of steam is generated, or (iii) If the GN pan is too small (for example, baking two loaves or baguettes), I can use the pizza steel without the GN pan, and generate steam the other way with a water tray and spray bottle. This works well, even with my basic oven which barely reaches 210°C maximum and has no option to turn off the fan. I thank James Morton for the idea of using a GN pan (www.bakingjames.com/blog/the-gastronorm-bread-pan-revolution).

[@thesourdoughjourney]

thank you. That's a good method also. In the end, it is all about temperature, time and steam. There are lots of ways to produce great results.

[@birdwatcher1015]

Awesome video. I love your experimental designs, and how you learn from your accidental mistakes. Right off the bat, I recognize the parchment paper issue. My loaves are always blonder at the base- duh!-because I use too much paper thus impeding air flow, as you just taught us. I also am going to start using my larger 6 quart DO's even they are heavier and bulkier than my 3 quart ones. Thank you for your efforts to teach us the science of baking sour dough!

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thanks!

[@ImperfectProgression]

Love this, would love to see a comparison of preheating the oven but NOT preheating the dutch oven or also comparing a roasting pan or loaf pan. I use a combination of all of these without preheating them.

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thanks. I’ve done some one-off experiments like this, but will add it to my list. I do like preheating my oven for 30 minutes, but only putting the Dutch oven in to preheat for the last 15 minutes.

[@john.home1]

Tom, thank you for doing this. It would be interesting to compare loaves baked in a cloche and on a steel with steam added to the environment. Have you done any baking with freshly milled flour? I have been experimenting with using up to 50% hard red or hard white freshly milled wheat. Great flavor and tighter crumb. I prefer this bread for toast and sandwiches.

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thank you, John. The next round of tests will be using different types of vessels. I generally do not use fresh milled flours. They’re too highly variable for these experiments. But maybe I’ll try some for my “normal eatin’” bread. Thanks!

[@StagArmslower]

I noticed the light coloring of the lower side of the dough caused by parchment paper insulating effect. It happens that Amazone sells round pieces of parchment in different diameter and your method of sliding the dough with supporting sheet is great idea. Fascinating as usual. Thanks. Bayda way, there is a moment in the journey of bread baking when everything kicks in in your head and it becomes foolproof.

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thanks for the tip.

[@janefriedrich8772]

Great information! This is very interesting science. I have Baked using Elaine Foodbods cold oven method with good results as well.

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thank you. I’ve also had success with that method.

[@a.w.3480]

very cool & informative details... So, my method that i fell into accidentally way before i ever even heard of the oven off method is: Preheat oven & Baking Steel at 500F for 35-40 min. Place a thin walled 6" deep 2/3 size metal hotel pan in for a couple min while i score the cold dough (850g-1,100g) & spray it all over with water. Slide it (on paper) onto the steel & cover it with the pan like a Cloche, then turn OFF the oven. 12 min later turn the oven ON to 430F & continue to cook another 10-12 min before taking off the pan/cloche, and sliding a cookie cooling rack under the dough while removing the paper (prevents burning the bottom). Cook another 20-30 min to desired color. This is BY FAR the best oven spring & crust i have ever gotten and i have tried almost every option out there over the years.

[@thesourdoughjourney]

I should have credited you with the oven-off method!

[@a.w.3480]

@@thesourdoughjourney Haha, im pretty sure it existed well before i turned my oven off on accident a year ago, i just had not actually ever heard of it as a real method before i looked it up after that happened, LOL

[@swallacepdx]

Wow. Great content here, thanks for such thorough documentation of your methods! On loaf five, looking at the crumb, it seemed to me that there were sections (particularly at the bottom) where the crumb was notably more dense than the prior loaves (although it's a bit hard to tell from the images in the video). It seems like the low internal temperature may also be the cause of this...

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thanks. I also noticed that but was not certain. When I sliced that loaf later it was also inconclusive.

[@johnmcdowell4634]

Thee best baking data I have seen!

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thank you!

[@belizekaviar1263]

hi ,I have used for the perfect oven spring ,a braadpan van glas >300 degrees ,normal for baking meat, in oven , but I used it for the firts sourdough bread, it's looks like a Dutch oven only from full glass hittebestendig met deksel ,I can perfect measure the temperature with the infrared meter. and I can see how it's going into my combi grill microwave oven.. awesome ..perfect oven spring..I love it ..thank you for your professionalism ..😊

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thank you so much.

[@Jackish7]

Another mind-blowing video with incredible research & documentation effort - thank you! I ordered an infrared thermometer after watching this, as it might be just what I need to help me understand my oven temperature spots better. I bake 2 loaves at a time on a baking stone set on the 2nd rung from lowest, with an upturned tray acting as a lid on the 4th rung and a tray of water to provide steam on the bottom of the oven. I find my wholemeal loves crust often fusing and hindering an ear, so based on your video I think maybe the temperature is too hot and/or I don't have enough steam for long enough. Since I don't have an actual dutch oven, I'm not sure what is the equivalent temperature point to check for instead - would you say it's the point on the baking stone surface where each individual loaf will go? Or the oven wall? I'm trying to understand if it's the temperature that's too hot or the steam that's insufficient, assuming my fermentation was fine in the first place. Thanks!

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Great question. I have not done a lot of open baking, but I'd check both the baking stone temperature and the oven wall temperature. People develop elaborate steam generation methods in their ovens. The most important thing is to keep the surface of the loaf moist until it fully springs. I'd heavily spray the loaf with water when it goes into the oven. And if it looks like it's drying out, spray it again at the 10-15 minute mark. You'll lose some ambient steam by opening the oven, but you'll more than make up for it by applying the moisture where you need it, on the loaf.