Audiophile Sound in Small Rooms?

[@Roof_Pizza]

Stuff like this is way more helpful to most than reviewing a $2k DAC (or whatever).

[@Newrecordday2013]

Glad I can help!

[@danny51577]

I 2nd that. Theres a small portion of people that can benefit from high end and perfect room advice. But most of those people know enough, have enough money, and need little help. Like you said, the vast majority is trying to get the best results with non optimal budgets and spaces. Kudos

[@stevenoconnor5693]

@@Newrecordday2013 I think I keep one of the video that should be stated is not just for the holographic sound that you’re looking for, but not placing the speakers in the best positions ultimately will limit the best you can get out of your gear, even if you have a great amp great record player. Whatever the gear combination is positioning is everything I’ve heard some really good speakers over the years without ideal placement for devalued. I will never reach the full potential.

[@JK-zd7zo]

@@danny51577 100% I've recently started getting into this stuff and this video was really helpful. Subscribed.

[@fatcatpeople]

So true, I dont want a $2000 anything to enjoy sound. I can understand the entire system, but an individual peace I'll pass. I can afford it, but do I need it and also in a small space.

[@nickmimi3631]

I tried this and your LOTS suggestions where I took my time and moved my seat and speakers till they disappeared in both my main and secondary rooms. I’m sitting much closer than would normally be my preference but it’s wonderful when the speakers completely disappear and you get immersed in the performance. The way you describe is simply superior and easier to follow and get results compared to most everyone else. Thanks a bunch!

[@mrk8212]

guys of a certain age have experienced the feeling of new record day and many others have not. The 70s were some good times to be a teenager... vinyl records and real musicianship were at their peak. And other reasons.

[@denniswade4998]

Very good and helpful video! I've always been saddled with smaller rooms for my HiFi listening, and have done a lot of experimenting to see what I could do with what i had. The results have usually been pretty much everything that you demonstrated here. Putting the speakers on stands, moving them out from the wall behind them, and angling them in usually always gives the best results. Sitting closer to the speakers helps to remove a lot of the room's not-so-good acoustical problems, and can create a very nice sound stage and really does help the speakers to disappear. I think you have done a wonderful job of helping people to learn how to work with what you have!

[@Newrecordday2013]

Hey thanks Dennis! Glad you appreciated the video and commented!

[@budgethometheaterandhifi]

It's a good topic. I think too often we talk in terms of the ideal when it's rarely attainable in real life, at least for most of us. Thanks for the vid.

[@Benvos]

I’m from the UK and listening to this being called a small room is funny. This is on average a medium room over here! I have Spendor D7.2s in a room this size and they sound incredible, I get everything I want from them from a wide range of music including AC/DC. They’re attached to a Hegel H390 and the source is an Auralic Aries G2.1. You don’t need a tiny system in a room this size if setup well, I have mine along the short wall not in the corner. And yes, my speakers have space both behind and to the sides, there is enough space in a room this size!

[@boballard6040]

I agree! I’m in a 10 x 11 foot with Heresy IVs. Ron is in Texas and they don’t have small rooms there!

[@BartholomewSmutz]

Considering the price of your speakers they should sound good even in a garden shed😆

[@Benvos]

@@BartholomewSmutz they’re a very compact floorstander so you could be right!

[@nazaholicable]

I'm totally with you on this one. I live in the UK too, and have often laughed at what our American cousins refer to as a small room. I too have Spendor speakers (A7's), a Cyrus i9XR amp, Luxman CD 03X and a reasonably good Marantz TT 15S1 turntable. Anyway, I digress. The point I want to make is that I've had hifi in large rooms and smaller ones, and surprisingly I've found small rooms beat big rooms for an enjoyable hifi experience.

[@dananskidolf]

Heh came to the comments to complain that 80% of UK homes don't even have a room as big as this 'small room' and found my fellow Spendor owners got here already :D I took my Spendor A6Rs with me to France and can tell you they sound even better in a bigger room. Now back in London, I'm using calibrated Neumann KH150s at about 130cm away in a 3.6m by 3.0m room, which works very well.

[@jonathanjenkins8630]

Good stuff - I moved my speakers close to the sofa in my last house. Near-field is always good at reducing the influence of the room acoustics - most of the sound gets to your ears before it starts bouncing around the walls!

[@garyganser2451]

Getting real! Great video. Thank you for the corner recommendation. You are the only person who has addressed my L shaped room which can have speakers on stands in the corner. And my 10'x10' office could use your second idea. Thank you!

[@Atheistic007]

From 25+ years of personal experience. Do not have an audio stand (or anything) between your speakers, get the gear off to the side and low. Have NOTHING on the floor between you and the speakers except for any floor treatment. Declutter the room. Try to duplicate one side if the room to match the other side, a.k.a. keep the room symmetrical in shape and size. Play with speaker placement. Then spend $ on acoustic treatments. You can make a $1500 speaker/amp/source sound amazing. Also, and most importantly, listen to lots of music. Listen to audiophile recordings, research what recordings are audiophile. Listen, listen, listen....

[@riccitone]

So great that you're addressing this! My listening room is even smaller: 11x12 and 8.5 foot ceilings. I made one of the longer walls a front wall, speakers about 19 inches forward, drivers aiming just behind my head, and put my chair about 2 feet in front of a closet, being part of the back wall. Removed the door from the closet and used a sliding fabric screen in place of said door. When I slide open the screen, stage seems to improve (possibly) due to the combination of the increased space and dampening behind me (lots of soft stuff in the closet, plus also bass trap?) and the screen (possibly) controlling some of the reflections toward the room entrance. Some GIK treatment to address room gain / bass, and a couple of diy diffusers for early reflections and voila....sounds...pretty.....pretty good.

[@Newrecordday2013]

Awesome! Thanks for sharing your approach and I’m glad you got it sounding good!

[@stackoverflow8260]

My current room is 11x12 as well, I have my sealed speakers on the 11-foot wall and pulled them 3.5 feet into the room, and they are 7 feet apart. I sit about 7 feet away on the opposite side on a couch with a bunch of memory foam pillows placed vertically to my ear height. This leaves about 1 feet behind me. To the left and right side of the speakers I have some absorption material. 80 percent of the wall behind me has absorption material ranging from thick pillows and a couch to thin panels on the wall above my head. Anyways, it sounds amazing.

[@jonboy9912]

I have a 12x16 living room where my first system is located much to my wife's chagrin - she hates my music and will not even allow me to play it in her presence without a row. So when she's out I have to lift my left hand Mordaunt Short Avant 609 left hand speaker out from behind the end of the couch and then shift the flat screen tv to expose the right hand one that hides behind it. These floor standing 2.5 ways are heavy but deliver hugely and the work is worthwhile as long as my back holds out and I can get everything back before she gets home!

[@ledze973]

The dimensions of my listening room are 10'Lx12'Wx9'H, what I did was, used heavy blackout curtains on the sidewalls and the front wall between the speakers. The speakers just disappear with minimalistic recordings and with normally processed recordings, the soundstage is very transparent.

[@C--A]

Heavy curtains just absorb some of the high frequencies, it's not good or recommended for audio. The high end listening rooms that use curtains use thinner acoustically transparent fabric curtains. With majority of the sound passing through to absorption and diffusion panels placed behind the curtains.

[@whiskeyweekly7533]

Man, I absolutely love your gentle and honest approach. This was really enjoyable to watch so thank you for the content my man.

[@Newrecordday2013]

Wow thank you!

[@orborbea9844]

Oh yes ! Perfect timing ! I just got done with isolation in the attic. It’s not big at all so this video is heaven sent 🎉

[@johnholmes912]

fifteen foot is considered roomy in many British homes, I don't consider it small in the slightest

[@simonzinc-trumpetharris852]

That's a palace to us!

[@dashcammer4322]

Yes not everyone lives in Grade 1 manor houses, unlike you see in BBC and ITV period dramas.

[@CookieCurls]

It’s a big room in the U.S. too!

[@2ndBirth]

Haha. I was thinking exactly the same thing.

[@warpacademy]

Hey hey. In regards to the wall of sound effect you described when placing the speakers against the front wall, another thing to take into account is the front wall acoustical loading effect that will cause a dramatic boost in the LF. That amount of extra bass will swamp the mids and highs and have a significant masking effect. For this reason you must EQ down the bass using a subtractive low-shelf. If you do that, it really cleans things up and you may very well like the sound.

[@firebearva]

My listing room is 14 x 16 with 8 foot ceilings. Though not the smallest of a listening room it isn't the largest. I have had to adjust mystery listening habit by listening at a lower volume. My systems in part is a pair of Klipsch Forte IV's driven by a Yamaha A-S3200 with an Audio-Technica turntable. I am currently streaming using an Amazon echo but plan replace that with an Eversolo DMP-A6 master.

[@mikehanks1399]

You are one of the better, if not the best, audio guy on KZbin. As an audio enthusiast (not an audiophile, God forbid), I kind of stumbled into nearfield listening by necessity. Hear me out on this. The smallest room any of us have is our ears, but headphones fill that room up very nicely. One thing they can't do is allow us to feel the music with our bodies they way speakers can. I have some quality bookshelves and even a sub (very unconventionally placed, by the way) in a rather small room, 19 feet long by 12 feet wide, and I have to use the narrow part for my listening area. I'm getting great sound, so it can be done. But I did think on the smaller side when it came to my speakers and that's made all the difference. In effect, I have a big set of headphones. Only now, I get the visceral feel of the sound waves hitting my body as well as my ears. Keep up the good work, you are really good at what you do.

[@550stanley]

This really does work. My situation is similar but not the same. I have my system in the living room, which is larger than a "small" room, but between "LOTS" advise and PS Audio's guide, I ended up moving my speakers pretty much to the middle of the room. So not as close as in this video, but much further than what PS Audio was originally recommending. I'm getting an amazing 3D audio out of 2 channel system. A solid central "ball" of sound behind the speakers for the vocals and the wide and pretty deep stage for the instrumentals. Placement and setup of the speakers is the first thing to get right. Equipment is secondary to that, as you can get phenomenal enjoyment out of a VERY modest setup if you have it tuned to the room properly. Thank you for the videos and advise!

[@Feliciano12v]

Kudos! I like to see content like this for the average person.

[@Newrecordday2013]

Glad you enjoyed it

[@buzzcrushtrendkill]

Most excellent info. As many of us don't have large rooms to work with and benefit from this video.

[@miguelfons6790]

For me KEF Ls50 Meta's are the absolute kings when it comes to nearfield experience. If you also use some tubes and a pretty airy DAC like the Ares II you get an amazing nearfield experience, the R2R Dac and the tubes gives you some extra soundstage.

[@amante762]

Small office with near field JBL 305p monitors on desk stands. Bass boom and muddy lower midrange were a serious problem. Added $20 of corner bass traps and $15 of absorption panels in the problem area and I am now enjoying my speakers all over again.

[@madnezz1961]

I have my setup in near field now because my entire apartment is 15 x 15 and there are two doors limititing where I could even put my speakers. I did put up a bit of acoustic treatment as this room is lively and it helped. I have Focal Chorus 706 speakers and a Rogue Sphymx V3 with an Oppo Blu Ray player and a Cambridge Audio DAC MAGIC100. I get amazing center image and the width is wider than the speakers. About all I can do

[@ericpiazzi3444]

great review, I utilize LOTS at home in my budget friendly music room and it helped greatly!

[@Ginger30161]

If you have smaller bookshelf speakers, getting adjustable speaker stands also help so that you can raise or lower the speakers.

[@johnhpalmer6098]

A Very good video there Ron! I run a vintage system, sans the turntable as it's a Rega P6 from 2020 and the cartridge and phono stage is from 2018, the rest, vintage. Receiver is a NAD 7240PE from between 1987-1992 or so, and I think mine is the later variant and the speakers are from 1979, a vintage pair of ADS L810, though billed as bookshelfs, they are a tad too big to be true bookshelf speakers, but do contain 2, 8" acoustic suspension woofers however, with a soft dome midrange and tweeter for a 3-way setup. As is, the system has balls, lots of moxie and sound very good and natural, even though my room is roughly 11x15FT and is a pass through for the kitchen, bathroom and laundry and the front 2 bedrooms. My couch sits away from the east wall by roughly a foot and a half or so, speakers no more than 21" from the front wall and I have to say, it does that well. The room has other furniture in it but as often noted, it's far from perfect, but for a rectangular room, it goes quite well all things considered. Do the speakers disappear? Nope and that's not the ultimate goal, but imaging is and I even get image depth in this space. Shortly after I was given the speakers, they did something I'd never experienced before, they gave me the impression of shooting out sound from them and as I had to go past them to get something from my office at the front of the house, I felt I was having to dart past the trajections. It was uncanny to say the least. Anyway, overall imaging is decent despite it not being perfect and my rocker/recliner sits right in front of the left channel speaker, but I sit on the couch most when listening to music anyway. Room has no special treatment, other than the speaker grills placed against the side walls to help with first reflections. Gotta say, speakers are mildly towed in, about 21" from front wall, and off the floor by some 15 or so inches, and tilted back slightly, which was recommended and they do image well and sound quite natural. All in all, it's a good listening experience for me in a small space. I have also thought about a complete rearrangement of the space, but have not done anything as of yet.

[@cosmo11cosmo21]

Been waiting for a video like this THANK YOU!

[@themarklar8759]

After buying my very first near field setup for my work desk (very open warehouse space - 10 foot long desk) my eyes and ears were truly opened to the beauty of near field. Using a decent set of Q Acoustics book shelf speakers and a decent class D desktop amp, I am blown away at the sound quality I can get for the money. Thanks for this video Ron, always a good reminder that setup matters. 👍

[@thedarkknight1971]

My setup:- 1989 vintage (fully serviced and maintained) Technics SU-600 'New Class A Series' Integrated Amplifier (specs available on t'internet) 2 x mid range 2 way Sony bookshelf - Main 2 x Mid range Pioneer bookshelf - Secondary 15' x 15' room with approx 10/12' ceiling height All hooked up to my Nvidia Shield K1 tablet (upgrade planned shortly), providing video to my 42" TV, and audio through a Dragonfly Cobalt which then provides input to the Integrated Amp. Placement:- The 2 x Sony's are placed below the TV/Hifi stack (on a rack) angled out a little wide. I use these as uppers, mids, and mid bass (yes, I am looking to obtain a 8" or 10" sub to gain a sub bass sound, but so far, I can hear down to approx 45Hz - Amp is rated 5Hz to 70KHz). The 2 x Pioneers are on speaker stands, placed at approx 45 degrees angle from my head, and approx 6' away from me. Overall, a crisp, clean, full range sound, with (for me and those that I have demo'd to) a wide sound stage. This current setup sounds REALLY good for the relatively low budget that has been spent on it (goes to show what an old and still available for cheap amp can do). Live music videos come alive, and the type of music I listen to, ranging from Classical, to Melodic Techno, to Chill/Ambient, to others, really come out very well. The way I put it hahaha is like, 'Listening to a well made set of headphones, without needing to wear, headphones' 🤔😏😏 Also, being a teen in the 80's, I love the LED bar type frequency/graphic visualisers, so, I bought myself a 'BDS PP-131 2U' - 31 bar Pro/DJ spectrum analyzer, both as a little treat for myself, but also so that I can 'See' what I hear too (hence knowing my speakers drop off at around the 50/45Hz range (though naturally, I CAN adjust the tone controls and enhance down to approx 30, but I don't want to do that obviously hence the desire to obtain a decent 8/10" sub to handle that and possibly down to 20Hz...) So yeah, there you have it, that's how I have mine set up, but yes, it is true, often, placing the speakers wide and angled direct to each ear (L + R) CAN give you a wide sound stage where various instruments play direct to each ear, and you can hear the subtle differences including maybe (depending on the track) the sweep from right on your right, through to in front and then sweeping round to your left ear... You just need to do as I did... Take your time, placing, sitting, listening, moving, sitting listening.... Your time, and effort, WILL be rewarding in the end... 😏 AND as you say, you CAN do it without spending the value of yours, your wifes and your kids kidneys in the process too! 🤔😉😉 😎🇬🇧

[@The_Juan_Percent]

15 x 12 is not a small room.

[@hkraytai]

It’s basically ideal size and with room conditioning absolute killer.

[@erwinlanser]

Americans… sigh😅

[@Thatrandomwhiteguy]

Im in a 8x10.... 3 sets of studio lab sl-550.. 2 sets of psb golds... no subs.... sounds incredible & the impacted is unbelievable!

[@slaughtr3]

My entire apartment is 16x22

[@richarddutchholland4780]

Well my KEF lsx ii are incredible in my 12x12 living room…..

[@edmatzenik9858]

I was just about to fill some speaker stands with sand, and I thought "if that sand ever gets spilled I'll never get rid of it all." So I went to a garden supply shop to buy some clean river pebbles. It was such a small amount I needed they gave me them for free, and they work great.

[@dashcammer4322]

Same for filling sandbags to weight light stands, use pebbles or aquarium gravel.

[@JohnScheppler]

Thanks for helping us try to get the best out of what we have. It's definitely a give and take on everything.

[@krom447]

Room treatment can not solve all problems, but can minimize the biggest, like echo in room with tile or concrete walls/floor.

[@Newrecordday2013]

That’s true

[@bumblesby]

I listen to a lot of classical. I simply move the speakers a bit and get a great center sound stage. It puts a smile on my face! That's good enough for me :) I have Klipsch RP-600M speakers and R-8SW subwoofer, Manley Jumbo Shrimp tube pre-amp and First Watt F6 amp.

[@Newrecordday2013]

Sound like a killer setup! Love the Manley stuff!

[@bumblesby]

@@Newrecordday2013 One piece of equipment that made a huge difference in sound with vinyl is a good phono stage. I have the Musical Surroundings Phonomena 2. When I first installed it I could not believe the difference! It was worth the money for sure.

[@JBrm]

What's worked for me? Some basic acoustic treatment, especially necessary if the room is merely empty. If it's stuffed with full bookshelves - not so much. Bass is always a problem in small room. What's said in the video also matches my eperience - using smaller bookshelf speakers and maybe a small sub leads to better results in small rooms.

[@treyhorn5645]

That was informative. I'm still near field I changed my setup until the middle of my living room I'm about 9 ft off of my back wall literally posted in the middle of my living room and have about 8 ft behind me and I haven't changed this setup yet I like it.

[@joneill1155]

Good to see you back at it Ron. Thanks.

[@siriosstar4789]

back in the mid eighties i lived in a small house with a liv rom of ten by 20. at one end i placed my new polk SDAs with Carver M1 amp ,added a couch at the proper distance from the speakers and turned it on . after five minutes the interior walls melted and i had a big listening space .

[@smilesrs8516]

I liked your Texas size small room!😁

[@Newrecordday2013]

We do everything a little bigger here in Texas.

[@markcarrington8565]

Great tips, Ron. Years ago I had my system in a small room. I chose speakers designed to be used against the wall, Linn Kans. They were brilliant infinite baffle designs. Now I have another small room for my office and also auditioning music on Tidal to play on my main system on CD. I’ve spent the last couple of years swapping various pairs of speakers to match them to my room. The best I’ve found, balancing a big, open sound, whilst keeping a grip on the bass are Monitor Audio Bronze 2. Unlike the current model 100, which supersedes mine, the 2’s have a slightly smaller mid/bass driver and a forward facing port. In my experience, these two factors have been key to how well these speakers work in the space. I have them mounted on stands about 9 inches from the wall. Another contributing factor to the quality of the sound in the room, is the ability of the power amplifier to keep a grip on the bass drivers. In my experience, the more the amp controls the drivers, the better the spakers sound.

[@Audiorevue]

I'm sure the most important thing is of course the wood paneling. I often find that music sounds a whole lot better with wood paneling

[@keithmorgan6498]

If you are stuck with a putting small speakers on book shelf use a door wedge under each speaker and adjust the tilt of them. This can give you great depth. It also makes the speaker see the front and rear walls as non parallel. In this situation have a subtle toe-in. Thanks for the great video. :)

[@banginghats2]

For many in the UK, that small room would be considered quite big.

[@Niberspace]

but that's true for anything that's bad elsewhere would be considered luxury in the UK

[@Ericisyourmuse]

lolz try Vietnam, it’s enormous 😂

[@DomRivers67]

Front ported, rare these days, or bottom slot ported like the Wharfedale Evo range makes speakers much less affected by walls and corners, an amplifier that doesn't drop off badly at lower volumes, basically class A....I recommend Arcams SA20 which I have in my 12ft X 13ft listening room (with Evo 4.2's) Or buy some small near field speakers and put a small sub somewhere, lots of soft furnishing/carpets and an amp of no more than 40w into 8ohm so that you drive it a bit

[@mikecarr8158]

Your small rooms in the US would probably considered pretty large in the UK. Our houses are pretty small generally so room sizes are pretty small generally. All relative I guess.

[@healthynutster]

The main problem in smaller rooms is bass response. The long waves striking short walls and reflecting back to the listener are very damaging to SQ. I like your idea of placing the mattress on the back wall to tame some of that. 3 feet from the back may not quite be enough (4 is better), but in a small room, there may not be a choice (don’t want to end up in the middle of the room in a huge bass null.) Nearfield allows lower volume, which should help with some of the reflections. I’ve never tried it, but there’s supposed to be a way (using multiple subs front and back) to entirely eliminate bass reflections from front and back walls. If true, it could be a huge help in getting good bass in small rooms. Great discussion and very well done!

[@vtkz]

Arrays with DSP of course will help and are the best way (if done correctly) to get the best bass room response, even in big rooms because youve way better control over standing ways. Thats why all the professional homecinema guys do Double Bass Arrays. No floorstander in the world can give out the bassquality & quantity what an well build Array can do.

[@vivianvaldi7871]

Btw using clothes and mattress on walls is a real effective idea. But to simplify and stay practical I used a real living room sofa in between the HP and lessoning position, so a not to high one. And you have to seat on a chair so you can see the HP and have direct propagation. Trying to kill reflections in a little room, even from windows, is one path to sound clarity & point source. Another trick : hang t-shirts along the side walls and behind the speakers, in the center of them. U can tolerate leaving the ceiling as is. Your HP cables are touching the metallic part of the HP support here... Houlala, that's another story, maybe ask GR research about this.

[@CensorMeNot-dv5lg]

I'm listening to this on an A08pro:) sweet little VU meter. Work good with Fluance SX6 5.25 bookshelves. They boom in a small room.

[@markkasick]

Finally somebody talking about this.

[@60zeller]

My audio room is a 3rd bedroom. 8'x10' speakers Falcon M10 Ended up favoring near field, I know everything in a room this small is. But, speakers are 4' away and pointed right at me. Sounds pretty darn good

[@alexg4284]

Love this. Keeps things in perspective

[@hanknalley7998]

Hi Ron. Thanks for the videos, especially LOTS!!! I have a fairly small room and have well over 100 hours trying to make my left speaker disappear. I’ve used LOTS and the soundstage and imaging is amazing. I’ll take any advice as I think I’ve tried everything but the left speaker just won’t disappear like the right one. My room is treated with absorption panels. Running Musical Paradise tube pre, 2 Rotel amps in bridged mono pushing Vandersteen 2C’s. I was originally thinking the speakers were too big for the room but the right speaker completely disappears. Listening mostly to rock on CD’s and vinyl. Sorry for the long comment. Thanks again for everything.

[@Newrecordday2013]

Thank you for watching man! Glad LOTS worked out for you!

[@hanknalley7998]

@@Newrecordday2013 Any advice on that stubborn left speaker that won’t disappear? Thanks man.

[@Newrecordday2013]

Try a diffuser on the wall closest to the speaker that’s not disappearing if you can.

[@phildavis3105]

Due to expediency, I put a pair of La Scalas in the corners of a 10x10 room toed in. In a what the hell moment, hooked them up to a Yamaha 2 channel integrated amp. Surprised the heck out of me

[@realmcerono]

My room is acustic hell - 13 x 13ft (4x4m) yes its a perfect square. I am sitting in the middle and there is obviously no low end at all because everything is canceled out. Solution is still pretty easy - dirac live combined with a sub. A Minidsp Flex can be integrated into any system. Absolutely amazing what dirac can do but still the sub is essential to fill the lack of bass and dirac is merging the sub and the speakers perfectly.

[@waldo3454]

My listening room is much smaller at 11.5 x 10 ft. I have a pair of towers and a sub in there. Properly treated and positioned, yes you can make it sound like a much bigger room. Diffusers. Lots of it.

[@C--A]

My small room is 13ft x 11.10ft. I use absorption panels with front scattering plates. Plus hybrid absorption/diffusion PolyFusors, and also a few diffusers. It's very tough getting a small room to sound bigger. You will never get it to sound like a concert hall. But since the acoustic room treatment. My small room sounds quite a bit more spacious than before

[@JGComments]

Thanks! Exactly my use case. Was on the fence about going with a better quality 2.0 or 2.1 set over a cheapo 5.1 since I have a fixed budget.

[@VinodKumar-gx7wj]

Very helpful information. This works great in my room even with budget gears.

[@k.6867]

Fantastic, thanks for Your insight - and the entertainment of course.

[@jmad627]

My listening room is a helluva lot smaller. I have a chair that sits me at ear level from my speakers which are about ten feet away. Love the soundstage imaging I’m hearing.

[@daysofgrace2934]

15x12 feet in the UK that’s an good average sized lounge, 10x12 would be on the smaller 14x18 feet would be large…No subs and smaller drivers, speaker positioning, avoid standing waves…

[@Smog104]

Beolab 3 , Beolab 11 , drove by Beosound Core and Overture in my small room works a treat

[@JuXuS1]

how do you like the b03? its my first pair of speakers not taken from a dumpster. i love how i can see the tightness of the skin on the bassdrum for the first time.

[@RichardDurishin]

This really has me re-evaluating my planned speaker upgrade as I don't think the open baffle ones I'm enamored with will do well in my 13x16 room with a fairly thin wall isolating my neighbor. I'm usually playing at an SPL of 50-60.

[@jackcaldwell3388]

Aside from the placement issues, open baffle speakers can be MORE friendly to neighbors because they don't transmit as much heavy bass information through walls, ceilings and floors. 13x16 may be smallish but I've had good results with OB in such by placing the speakers about 4 to 5 feet from the back wall, and near the side walls. The OB radiation pattern allows you to reduce a lot of the sidewall reflection by angling (toeing in) the OB relative to listening position. Experiment with that if you wish. OB's greatly reduce the amount of resonances and excitation of room modes when compared with regular speaker enclosures. Another option is just to get something good like KEF LS50meta and correct for room issues with Dirac, IMO it's not that far away from a good OB setup (also w. Dirac)

[@RichardDurishin]

Thank you@@jackcaldwell3388

[@rofgabor]

this is pure gold

[@gustercc]

Looks like someone hit a homer with this video. 58k in less than a month is awesome for a niche channel. Way to go NRD!!

[@RigVader]

I sit right up against the back wall and find it’s best to either get really close to the back wall with the head or sufficiently far away (sit well back or sit on the edge of the couch). Likely to do with the delay between direct and reflected sound. Unfortunately I don’t like the dead sound of sitting up against an absorber (tried many depths, with and without diffusion patterns on the surface).

[@Nightjar726]

I dig you man. Period. Yer a good guy. Dig ya

[@logaandm]

With large speakers the sound field doesn't develop unless you are far away. So small speakers are must in small rooms. The real challenge is resonance below 400 Hz and sound reflections from hard surfaces. Treating only one opposing surface is usually enough and will prevent a "dead" room. So speakers away from the wall, wall hangings behind the speaker and one wall, curtains in front of windows, a carpet on the floor in front of the speaker, etc., will cut down on reflections and resonance improving sound quality tremendously with little effort. It doesn't have to look like a recording studio just use, thick, soft decorations to cover the most reflective surfaces. The treatment closer to the speaker tends to work better with less surface area. It's all about stopping reflections and resonance. Multiple speakers with DSP can "fake" larger spaces and can sound very good even in a small room. With only two speakers, placement, speaker quality and room treatment become more important. I have KEF LS50 wireless set up side by side with a 7.1 Polk system. In stereo mode the KEF blows the Polks away. In Dolby 7.1, the Polk wins for an engaging sound experience. In both cases the carpets, wall hangings and curtains help to keep reflections and resonance under control.

[@DaveGava]

I have a pair of B&W 802S in a spare bedroom with alot of good power the room is 12 x 12 yes it is possible to get big speakers to work in a smaller room if you put in the time and have some audio knowledge.

[@leeh4722]

I tried the BR03 whilst already owning a pair of BR02’s….the 03’s went back and I purchased another pair of 02’s for surround duty’s. They are staying as my front stage too!

[@MCMTL]

Indeed, every room will have its challenges.

[@chrisbeall9098]

Enjoyed this, thank you for taking the time to make it. Live in Italy, room is basically 16ft by 16 ft, 9 foot tall, concrete block with slurry coating for smoothness. Some wooden furniture and a big fold away. No asking for advice, just saying what works of rme. Wharfedale Linton and 2 REL T5i subs. Loki from Schitt and a Yamaha CD driven by a Technics SU V620. I play mainly music from YT off the laptop thru an IFi Zen DAC. No issues loving the sound. Overkill? Likely but what else I'm I gonna dabble with? I had Zu Omen DW in that room but recently got the Linens and am soon to modify the crossovers. The Zu are going upstairs to be fed by the TV and Rega TT. Still trying to decide if I wanna run the Realistic vintage receiver tho it requires a transformer for voltage or get something newer. We'll see, tho I do have an old Kenwood Integrated amp, damned if I recall the name that is sweet and... 220V that I can put back into service.... Sorry to ramble

[@jlo8775]

My non-dedicated room is 15x13 with my speakers approximately 7ft off the front wall. Room treatment is minimal. I’ve achieved a HuGe Soundstage. deep & wide with superb imaging…ProAc Response D2’s + Rel S/510 absolutely superlative combo.😘👌

[@wingsounds13]

Yes, I like this video BUT... (uh oh... here we go). This video works GREAT for a room with (almost) nothing in it. Great, you can put your chair and system in the middle of the room. This is basically the same as a dedicated listening room, just a small dedicated listening room with a dead back wall close behind you. I didn't see you address how to work with a room that you don't "own", but have to work around other users and significant objects. You know, the kid's desk, toy box, book case, table, whatever. Any suggestions there?

[@Newrecordday2013]

I had a feeling this would come and I totally understand it! You’re right, with additional furniture in there it might not work out very well so you would need to just try one of my methods and see if you can pull it off. This is the room I have to work with in the video so I can only hope it at least inspires some creative ideas for placement.

[@vladimirfreddie]

Brilliant helpful advice!

[@Corndog642]

Most people who are not audiophiles have likely never heard a soundstage. Most people are familiar with the wall of sound concept and probably think that’s the goal.

[@DodgyBrothersEngineering]

That's a good point you don't know what you don't know. It's only after you hear what you do like that you suddenly know what you don't like.

[@nickfowler515]

To be fair, amplified rock and pop concerts are wall of sound. So they do have a frame of reference for that. What's interesting is the recordings often do have a soundstage with depth even though it's artificial on a modern recording.

[@scotto9712]

Yes @ Nick I was about to write similar but you said it better. Hard to have nuanced depth when all the amps are in a line 12-15 feet behind the artists and the sound guy is mixing balance to the drums.

[@Newrecordday2013]

That’s true @corndog642, it’s one of the reasons I mentioned it and want to help!

[@BootJamesOut]

Hello folks. To get the bass more tune up Try to have all the distance equal for they'll arrive at the same timing. Floor to ceiling helps too. Also remove whatever you have in the room first. After your done then bring whatever back in. Small room means smaller equipment. I can be listing under five minutes, outside faster then making a tea or coffee. Yes i have noise around me big city 2 miles from downtown. I view it as industry noise or music this program my mind into scenery mode in pure joy. Oh the openness in sound. After all it is all in one's mind. Nothing can bring me down without my permission first. Happiness is one's discussion to decide to make, be happening live. Control use the force luc or click your heels. Theres no place like audio home. Ride Easy.

[@ryomario90]

Okay, noob here trying to get into good quality sounds on a budget, just in case if it matters I have a set of Edifier R1280T stereo bookshelf speakers EQ'd with Equalizer APO by using someone's as close as possible to a flat preset made for the R1280T. I'm waiting on a set of cheap custom built speaker stands to arrive. My room is a small rectangle. It's also pretty empty because I like it minimalistic, by this I mean I have a small PC desk that fits my 24" monitor and the speakers barely fitting on the desk beside my monitor ( as of now ), I have a small bed in the middle and close to the opposite side of the wall, a very small drawer and a very small closet on my right side in the middle of the longer wall. My desk is close and in the center of the shorter wall, ( sorry if I'm speaking silly, english is not my native language ). What I'd like to do is place my speakers beside my desk on those stands I mentioned, but I'm very confused, because I've read that the speakers should be placed around 4 feet from each other and 2-3 feet from the closest wall and this isn't mentioned in this video, does this mean that it doesn't really matter? if it does matter, then it has to be those exact distances? for example if I place my speakers 3-4 feets from the wall than I would have to move my desk further from the wall as well because the speakers would be almost right beside me. I hope I made at least some sense.

[@spoudaois]

Got KEF q150s and Aiyima A07 and T8. Sounds amazing for around $500.

[@francisdelacruz6439]

Near field works really well, coaxial coincident speakers like ls50 would lack height so not all speakers do well in near field. For cheaper room treatments you can frame 3 towels on top of each other this would absorb deaden sound. Cheers and Happy Listening.

[@thomasward00]

Just went through this with my bedroom system, 16x13, bought an Arcam SA10 and a pair of Paradigm 200B bookshelves, bad idea, those speakers are too loud and bright for a smaller room, Purchased some Wharfedale Denton 80's and it's perfect. Salesmen just try to always push you to the bigger and more expensive option, in a smaller room..... well smaller is sometimes better. I added a small ML Dynamo 400 Sub and it's a perfect setup.

[@Newrecordday2013]

Awesome man!

[@chevyimp5857]

Thanks so much for this video.. super useful..

[@Newrecordday2013]

Glad you enjoyed it!

[@falcon048]

I achieved this in a very different and much more expensive way. A way exceedingly frowned upon by the "audiophile" community. Regardless of their unfounded ire, my small desktop system exceeds many floor standing, large room solutions. To do this I tweaked much of the external electrical and vibration problems. The truth is , you can squeeze optimum performance, sometimes beyond the manufacturer spec, by reducing impedance and other forms of resistance (vibration) as well as interference ( emi., etc) This means using cables that have very low impedance and high capacitance. You also need the same for power. Then you will need to handle vibration. Tweeters, which deliver much of the airy sound stage, are HIGHLY susceptible to vibration. Some of this vibration is mitigated by the design of the speaker cabinet. You can add further improvements with vibration resistant stands with vibration absorbing feet or pucks. You can push it further with a grounding device that emits a low frequency 4hz wave. This pushes against and scrubs wifi, Bluetooth and cellular signals, which can infiltrate your system and reduce your noise floor. Finally, treat the room for acoustics. If everything is bare walls and hardwood floors, use absorbing solutions. If the room is acoustically dampened, use diffusion solutions.

[@mikecoffee100]

Helpful advice thank you and subsscribed and liked

[@DodgyBrothersEngineering]

If you are cranking AC/DC it doesn't matter the room is small if it is loud. Sound quality is unimportant as long as the volume is on 11. Funny but AC/DC would be one of the few bands that I don't do critical listening on. I just turn it up to what I think the neighbours will endure and sit back and enjoy it.

[@Newrecordday2013]

🤟🏻🤟🏻🤟🏻

[@DodgyBrothersEngineering]

@@mygarart2764 the great thing about running an active open baffle setup is I can crank it louder than box speakers and not be shaking everything off the walls.

[@DodgyBrothersEngineering]

@@mygarart2764 the open baffle or the active? Active is not cheap between active crossover and amplification I probably have $12k invested. Although my open baffle speakers probably didn't come in at much less. Sub is probably close to another $10k.

[@johndaddabbo9383]

Ahhh, it's possible you haven’t haven't heard AC/DC, LED Zeppelin, Rush, Pink Floyd, Iron Maiden (such as Seventh Son of a Seventh Son) on a very good (my) system. On other systems, despite how loud they could play, it's just a mess, and on my system Iron Maiden's Seventh Son of a Seventh Son at full tilt (118 dB peaks in room) is quite spectacular (when the sound is well balanced, digs deep, is low distorting, has controlled reverberation AND sure is played back at Rock concert levels). For me it is Quality over Quantity any day of the week, however over the years I've been able to finally build myself a system capable of both. So by all means take it to 11... but do so in both sound Quantity AND Quality :)

[@DodgyBrothersEngineering]

@@johndaddabbo9383 make no mistakes there is plenty of quality there. Just AC/DC is one of the few bands I don't do critical listening on. I am a big Pink Floyd fan, but I never crank it to the same levels I would AC / DC (loud but not as loud). When I listen to PF I am listening for the most minute details, making sure my system is playing optimally. AC / DC it is just let it rip and enjoy.

[@nikolaudio]

brother, what would you have to say about nearfield subwoofers? Im interested in your take on it

[@babupranav]

Very helpful video. Is a full Bro3 review coming soon??

[@michaelnyansafo7343]

Can you recommend any Active bookshelf speakers for 2 channel music listen?

[@JR-ho5qm]

Thanks Ron! I’m thinking of using your link to buy this amp for a pair of Polk R200 in my garage, to be upgraded in the future. Would this power my Polks decently for now? Thanks.

[@Newrecordday2013]

Easy! Wouldn’t break a sweat with the 200s!

[@johnmason6213]

I have a small room with Klipsch LaScala’s. The soundstage is incredible because of the horns.

[@nacnudsdressage6295]

HElp... I have floor standing speakers that are in a bedroom. so they bed is most likely going to be in the way . Bedrooms are the only room with a door in this house (balance is open concept) and I need to "contain" the music at times. This is solely to play vinyl as other system in the open space is for cd and tidal kind of stuff... I don't know if I should put the speakers on a platform but then the tweeter will be higher then ear level or if I should just not worry about it and have the bed be in the way. There is only a chair and a nightstand in this room with an antique wardrobe , room is kind of large wood floors no carpets yet. Or should I keep this in the guest bed room which is much smaller 12x12 but nothing blocking the speakers

[@martybousum1010]

Thanks! Great info. I'm a near field listener having chosen appropriate speakers etc.

[@martinaxe6390]

Super helpful. But I’m realizing that the one space I have for my set up in my house just isn’t going to work for a perfect listening room. We have a three bed two bath. The master bedroom doesn’t have room. The first guest room is L-shaped, and is my wife’s dedicated space. The final room is my office, and is about 9.5’x13’. There is no unobstructed wall due to doors and windows placement. Uneven floors mean i am limited in where i set my desk and office chair. I’ve tried different locations, and the chair will just start rolling with me in it, expect for one location, along one of the 9.5’ walls. The only real position this leaves my speakers is along the exterior 13’ wall, in the center. I can’t bring them out from the wall, because my office chair will run into them when backing up. Kind of heart breaking, and maybe someday, we’ll find a house with that magic room that can afford us a better set up. For now, I’ll just have to move the speakers out when I want to listen. Equipment: NAD 5025 turntable with Grace F9E cart, Pioneer SA510 amp, Polk signature elite s50 speakers. Speakers are certainly over powered for the room, but it’s what I have for now.

[@psyphonyxaudio]

Great editing and advice.. Thanks Randy! Im sure this will motivate some people to try a few things. =)

[@keith6872]

Near field in front of a desktop computer. My Sonus Faber Concertinos (first versions) on original stands sound amazing in nearfield. I have to be watching some type of video to be entertained.

[@jackturtle131]

Thanks Ron for explaining this

[@Newrecordday2013]

My pleasure! Thanks for watching and the comment.

[@matereo]

Guru juniors or Guru QM10 or Larsen fours or sixes are awesome in a real home enviroment situation. Like allot of Swedish loudspeakers they are made to sit up against the rear wall and the larsens don't need room treatment att all in 80% of all livingrooms

[@dbrodbro1]

I notice a lot of absorb behind the saphires in this video. Is it necessary to attenuate the rear emissions in an open baffle driver?

[@Shorby99EK]

What about the space the drivers need to time align or sum together? I was told 2-3 meters for BMR V2’s I wanted to use in my small room with a set of aegir’s.