MARVEL WHAT IF: Infinity Stones Plot Holes Finally Explained!

Marvel Studios' What If Episode 9 changed the rules for the Infinity Stones in the MCU, yet again! How do the stones work now? Get $200 off all mattress orders AND two free pillows at HelixSleep.com/...
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Now that the What If season finale has wrapped, we're left with several lingering questions from the series, including the ways the show changed how we see the Infinity Stones in the MCU after Loki and Avengers Endgame. In this episode of Inside Marvel, Erik Voss and MT finally tackle the complex, ever-shifting logic of the Infinity Stones, and establish FOUR new rules for how the stones work across MCU titles.
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Hey everyone, welcome to the official New Rockstars KZbin channel! We cover what the internet cares about. From Marvel to the Walking Dead, Rick and Morty to Stranger Things, James Bond to Star Wars, and more. We got you covered in every movie and television show you might love! Don’t forget to subscribe and enable all push notifications so you never miss a review, breakdown, or theory.
PATREON PRODUCERS:
Brendan Langdon
Cody Anderson
Dan Woodson
LookNoHands
Karen Wang
O. Grometto
Pony Stark
Rick Denmon
RXJedi
Producer: Erik Voss / eavoss
Producer: Zach Huddleston
Producer: Brandon Barrick
Writer: Erik Voss
Writer/Host: MasterTainment
NRDS Chief Creative Officer: Filup Molina / filupmolina
Post Production Supervisor: Riley Auskelis
Staff Editors: John Costa, Joshua Steven Hurd, & Drew Coombs

[@Revanaught]

Here's my thought on why zombie thanos went to wakanda instead of Camp Lehigh. Thanos got zombied and was thus no longer looking for the mind stone. He was looking for the people. Where were there the most alive people? Wakanda? How'd he know that? Soul stone. Bam. Plot hole fixed.

[@VivekYadav-ds8oz]

that makes the most sense out of all the theories.

[@roberttucker8781]

Plus Thanos loved the members of the dark order as his children too

[@gentlesnot1864]

@@roberttucker8781 i dont think so

[@lucymiller3900]

@@gentlesnot1864 he got sad when Squidward died, he didn't love them as much as Gamora and Nebula, but he did care for them, remember, MCU Thanos believed he was a hero

[@PansyPops]

Yeah, but Thanos has so many ships and abilities to travel through the universe. Why would he not be able to travel throughout the universe to more populated planets. Knowing extra terrestrial beings (Thanos, his army, the children of Thanos) can be transformed, and he would go to the most populated place, what would stop him from trying to get to a highly populated planet?

[@AmarKelkar]

What if the TVA stones only didn’t work because the timelines they were taken from were pruned?

[@sophialucero6197]

INTERESTING 😦🔥

[@henryzuniga6529]

You might be right

[@federalexpressman9762]

I always thought it was the same thing that prevents Loki and other beings from using their powers inside the TVA, not necessarily the stones not working in other realities. That's a rule only established in the comics.

[@cre8ivoutlet]

Right

[@Problemsolver434]

Magic doesn't work in the TVA. That's all. The stones work in other timelines

[@kevthepoet]

There's an easy fix. The infinity stones are only useless in the TVA or wherever in the Quantum Realm the TVA is probably located. That way the gloves are off for what they can or can't do anywhere else in the multiverse.

[@mattwilcox8134]

Yeah that was my thought. I assumed the TVA was basically outside of any universe and therefore outside the area of the stones’ powers

[@monstremarguerite6121]

This is exactly what I assumed!

[@apersonwhomayormaynotexist9868]

Yeah, it was never a plot hole because the stones were always able to work in other universe. Side note, the TVA doesnt seem to be in the Quantum Realm, its more likely somewhere close to the void, where it's still technically in the timeline and branch versions of it are capable of being created, but it's more outside of time, where the laws of the universe don't really exist

[@dante2037]

I think the stones in the TVA didn't work simply because their branches had been pruned so those timelines so longer existed. If they no longer existed then there's nothing to give the stones power.

[@MrJackfaire]

That's not even a fix it's just choosing to not extrapolate. They never said in Loki that Infinity Stones didn't work outside of their branch timelines. They explicitly said they don't work in the TVA neither does magic. But Loki's Magic worked everywhere but the TVA which means that it's something about the TVA itself and not the being in a different timeline that stopped those things from working.

[@ZoSo42084]

Don't worry, there's a universe where all this shit makes perfect sense

[@SettaXY]

Key lime pie 🥧

[@matthewalexanderkatsock]

Let’s remember the explanation that Ultron uses the stones from his universe on himself (from the same universe). Now, Supreme Strange used HIS time stone from HIS universe on HIMself to free himself from the powers of Ultron’s time stone (which worked because Ultron was in HIS universe, allowing the stones to have effect’s on everything/everyone in that universe). I *think* that’s how that worked, but next season I’m sure all shit will break loose haha.

[@andyseinfeld1954]

literally stop lol, the stones works outside the universe and the creators confirmed it so just accept it

[@parry111]

But.....you don't need to think or theorise about anything. I don't get how much clearer it can get that the stones do work in other universes

[@matthewalexanderkatsock]

@@parry111 I’m just having fun speculating. Not trying to say “here ye, here ye, I do declare the letter of the law!” Or anything haha

[@justinkomora4518]

@@andyseinfeld1954 the writers literally said this is why they worked. They said Ultron is using the stones on himself. He's basically channeling raw energy and firing it outward.

[@michaelmcgee9253]

Why doesn’t Strange Supreme use the time stone to fix HIS universe???

[@MrTesh47]

Can we take a second to thank Disney/Marvel for bringing animation back to the forefront of entertainment for adults. I can’t remember ever when a series created so much buzz and talking points.

[@JerbinJoe]

Renslayer mentioned in Loki that magical powers won't work inside TVA, including stones. In MCU, they never mentioned specifically about stones getting powerless in other universes

[@alexanderdumas-]

It wasn't just the stones. Cosmic awareness granted by the Watchers speech allowed him to use the Mind stone to identify the Watcher, and the space stone +5 stones to get to his location, Ultron specifically uses the Mind stone when he finds the Watcher, the Watcher literally narrarates the ascension of Ultron's conscious to "previously unobtainable levels"

[@masterman3191]

I did not notice that!

[@ked49]

Dr strange gained that level of sentience. So absolute silence in a universe causes you to hear the watcher.

[@Moshuun]

Maybe because Ultra-Vision is one with the Mind stone, he can can communicate differently with the other stones & get them to work. Plus, UV isn’t using a gauntlet, the stones are part of his entire being, so, its possibly a bypass? I don’t know. 🤕😵‍💫

[@JoshuaStDenis]

They're in his armour, much like a gauntlet, there isn't much difference there, except the mind stone.

[@grahamcrackergaming2000]

@@JoshuaStDenis but that armor was part of him bc he was using the nanotechnology before he even had the stones he just needed the armor to actually hold them and I do think it could be a matter of ultranationalist being one with the stones bc they stated in the mcu that the stones gives off frequencies that are almost like “brains” so ultron being a code embedded into the stone and vice versa it would allow him to do more things than thanos could since thanks could just “feel” their power while ultron became ONE with the power which is why they needed “to separate the stones form the body”

[@dante2037]

Paraphrasing from another top comment that I think got it right. The sacred timeline can be pictured as a forest of trees wound together. Each tree is its own universe with its own branches. What If explores some of the branches from our MCU tree, so infinity stones that are part of the same tree can work in other branches of the tree, but probably wouldn't work on an entirely different tree. We haven't seen anything from another tree so we don't known the answer yet. The stones in the TVA didn't work because their branches had been pruned and no longer exist so there is nothing to give the stones power.

[@darkraihs]

i tihnk the stones just dont work in tva, but work everywhere else

[@lior763]

I think only the mind stone is part of vision / uv cuz the body of vision made with and cannot work without it. But about the rest stones, they could pluged out without any damage to him actually.

[@catfdljws]

in the 10:30 discussion of Thanos v what-if Ultron and the stones. I'd note that Ultron initially didn't see the multiverse at the time. He conquered HIS universe, then discovered the watchers and it escalated from there. As for Thanos, you noted he had a much more focused goal (just kill half the population) rather than an impossible one (kill ALL the population), so if he discovered the multiverse I think he would have used the stones to set up barriers to protect HIS changed universe from being undone (had he lived passed the opening of Endgame, of course). It helps that Thanos had a more peaceful goal on the other side of his actions - just build a garden and live peacefully, content at his success. Because his goal was more focused. Ultron's goal couldn't be achieved...partly because he has Tony's drive to never see an ending. (thus why he was still making iron suits into CW and AIW even after having said he'd quite in IM3). Their personalities and goals were different - Ultron would keep going and going and going. Thanos was "one and done". The Watcher (and the TVA) saw Thanos as being an end. What If Ultron was not an end, rather it was never-ending. If they didn't step up, Kang would have had to. In fact, it does lead to an interesting idea - that What If Ultron isn't dead...and his trial is the introduction to the council of Kangs.

[@jesseturner9865]

He's not dead. He and Killmonger are frozen in a pocket universe of Dr Strange's creation.

[@catfdljws]

I was under the impression Ultron's mind is wiped thanks to Zola, and that it was Zola in there with Killmonger.

[@jesseturner9865]

@@catfdljws doh!, you're right. one bad robot replaced by another.

[@lorengreen131]

I thought of the stone crusher failure more as the stones from Ultron's universe were different molecularly even just slightly enough that the crusher, designed for gamoras stones, was not able to do it without that level of precision.

[@HeWhoSlayethCain]

Ultron is the sentience of the Mind Stone. Ultron IS an Infinity Stone given form. He knows all there is to know about the stones.

[@dantepierre1948]

bingo, this needs more likes

[@nonsense9858]

Exactly. This is the most valid reason.

[@OscarASevilla]

so why didnt Ultron just negate Doctor Strange's time stone?

[@HeWhoSlayethCain]

@@OscarASevilla Because Strange Supreme absorbed countless beings of the Multiverse and spent a century if not more learning everything about it, so if anyone is even close to having Ultron's knowledge of the stones, it'd be Strange.

[@Bellfamkids]

"What if" is a branch timeline of the MCU so all the infinity stones are all copies of the MCU. The different stones work against each other as long as they all come from the same tree. The TVA stones didn't work because that branch no longer exists because it was pruned so it has no power. The sacred timeline was several universes bound together but were not branches of each other. Essential each string of the sacred timeline is its own tree in a forest. So potentially infinity stones from different trees would not work on other trees but only on there own branches. "What if" is not talking about multiple trees it is about the branches that have occurred off of the MCU tree because the sacred timeline is out of control.

[@tay3724]

Perfect

[@nicholasball69]

this

[@Splxshin]

i always treated it as if the branch nexus event timeline was pruned, those stones in that branch lost their power. this is perfect.

[@JNel77]

Well put.

[@carnage1570]

Ah makes a lot of sense

[@robertcrist124]

Listening to your giddiness over the ever expanding multiverse is so exciting, and mind blowing decades ago Marvel filed for bankruptcy and sold off its assets, to think how far they’ve come.

[@thelazypeaches]

They had to file bankruptcy and sell off property to expand their possibilities. What if marvel never sold off any property?

[@bev6713]

You seem to think that absolute point = nexus event... Why? For me it was obvious that: Nexus event- event that couses branching in timeline (splits it) Absolute point- event that cannot be changed because it would couse a paradox Two completely different things.

[@umbrellafox9160]

They think that because the director of What If? has said that they named absolute points, not knowing Loki was going to bring up the same concept, and that if they had known, they would’ve chosen Nexus Point instead. But the script wasn’t even written for Loki yet.

[@FranciscoRamirez-nb4uu]

To be fair a Nexus event id more like a change in the sacred timeline more like a simple branch. It was He Who Reamins who make the term

[@masterbrawler1298]

@@umbrellafox9160 even then I feel Loki does good job making it seem it’s a totally different thing anyway

[@oliemerza]

10:50 Access to the multiverse is due to Ultron attaining higher consciousness just like what happened with Evil Strange hearing the Watcher without having all the stones.

[@themailman3331]

After rewatching the What If? Series, and paying meticulous attention to every detail, I can honestly say I have no f*cking clue what the hell is going on.

[@cre8ivoutlet]

Urgh you watched them all again?! Wow, well done. But yes most science fiction shows should not be questioned or analysed because you’ll see all the plot holes with greater clarity, you won’t have any light bulb moments.

[@Problemsolver434]

Because you have your own head canon that's blinding you. The stones work in any universe or timeline. Endgame clearly established this. You guys just try to force the MCU to follow the rules of the comics. Magic in general doesn't work in the TVA. It's not just the stones. Loki couldn't use his magic in the TVA. That's it. The MCU never said the stones couldn't work in other timelines. It even showed the opposite. You guys just concluded that that rule existed because of your own head canon.

[@ishryal]

What If the 'stones' are merely shells of the 6 primordial energies, and these energies are the same in every universe (all come from the same source and are present in each universe) but the shells are specific to the universe - so you can only destroy the stones from the same matter of the stone shell, but that just 'atomises' the stones and releases the energy. So yes, using two time stones in the same universe is like fighting with two water hoses plugged into the same tap. The TVA just has a way of turning off the tap - the water is still there, but the hoses (stones) run empty.

[@david13579naranja]

More like the hose is still there but the water is gone (timeline pruned).

[@ishryal]

@@david13579naranja That too

[@jonoab6944]

I think the reason why when ultra-vision gets the six stones, he's able to travel between universes is something to do with how his brain isn't human. The watcher says in the episode something along the lines of, he's able to transcend into a higher form of being. The fact that he had 6 infinity stones definitely would've played a large part in that, but i also think, that him being a super computer allowed him to understand the stones, the stones abilities, and therefore, while using the stones, become something that no one else has or even could've achieved. just food for thought (:::

[@cencent2189]

What about Dr. Strange he used the time stone (from his broken universe) in a different universe.

[@jonoab6944]

@@cencent2189 my comment was more about why Ultra-Vision could traverse the multiverse, not why the stones could be used in different universes (:

[@cencent2189]

@@jonoab6944 ohh ok lol my bad

[@williambland2020]

I agree, i also think that he was able to surpass the level of thanos power because he was able to use (presumably) all 6 infinity stones when he crossed through the multiverse, without taking any damage, because he's a machine, not a living being like thanos. Thanos used all 6 infinity stones to destroy them and almost died from the power, same w hulk when he snapped. Ultron doesnt take this damage, maybe bc of his suit design, either way, thats why he could use them more often and to a higher extent.

[@WigantX]

(::: is this a Celestial smiling?

[@AlfonzoCarson]

Thanos didn't hear the watcher so he probably didn't know he could cross over. Ultron just can process information a little quicker.

[@akiokoh7481]

personally i think since ultron had the time to conquer his ENTIRE universe, hes probably more acquainted to the power of the all infinity stones and its full potential. Thanos had all the stones for what? Maybe a total of an hour? If u think about it, all thanos did was snap, teleport to his farm planet and snap again.. honestly maybe even less than an hour. Ultron had it the entire time while he took over his universe thats months, maybe years to analyze and use the stones fully, and with him essentially being powered by the mind stone he probably fully became one with the stones and gained some sort of higher understanding

[@JNel77]

I feel like a lot of the confusion stems from the assumption that these different universes played out almost exactly the same as the main universe. There’s no reason that events unfolded the same, or in the same order.

[@Celtic1020]

The whole point of viewing these universes is to the how one change spirals into many. But if there is no way for the initial change to affect an outside change, e.g. another planet or galaxy, you have yourself a contradiction.

[@JNel77]

@@Celtic1020 I hear you, and I agree. But, whose to say that change can’t lead to one or more of the stones ending up on another planet instead of earth?

[@jcabigting8036]

I think if there’s any inconsistencies in any episode is chalked up to the uniqueness of each possible universe. How did thanos get the soul stone, in this universe if Helen cho never unplugged ultron then maybe thanos loved someone else. The what if title for the episode doesn’t necessarily imply that it is the only difference from the main mcu to that particular universe.

[@freddyfaerie3499]

No but the watchers speech at the beginning of the episodes does imply it's one difference that changes the universe

[@andrewjalice8649]

Yeah I agree completely even though we see the main point in which the universe changes that means that the universe changes so that means that other things may not be the same either that was the initial point that must mean more things change but that was the point that changed everything

[@MrJackfaire]

@@freddyfaerie3499 Fan fiction writers do that shit all the time too, "What if Harry Potter was...." but then throw in 3 or 4 other differences that weren't even mentioned in the What if set up.

[@SardonicVida]

@@freddyfaerie3499 one difference to change the course of events, but never states that it’s the only difference. Because clearly one change affects a ton of their things.

[@MarvelX42]

As far as I can tell the only "rules" that they have "broken" is (1) stones not working in the TVA which could be explained by [A] those stones not working outside of their native universes or [B] The TVA being inside of a sort of faraday cage that blocks out their (and magics) use and (2) Doctor Stranges time stone working outside of his native reality which could be explained by the Eye of Agamotto taking on some of the qualitys of the time stone and getting power from it just as Wanda got some power from the mind stone and Carol got some power from the space stone. I think that your rules unnecessarily overcomplicate things and my explanation is just simpler.

[@amandalong220]

I always assumed the TVA was a sort of faraday cage like you say.

[@sddrx6000]

I just love M.T and Erik together so fun.

[@kennethvalenzuela1680]

Ultra-Vision reminded me a lot of Amazo from the Justice League series. When he came back to Earth, Gold and evolved to a way more advanced level. Maybe Ultra-Vision was also evolving along with the stones, thats why the rules were different for him.

[@Problemsolver434]

This was simple. Everyone just assumed that the stones don't work in other timelines when the MCU clearly proved otherwise with endgame. The TVA obviously has other means to neutralize the power of the stones, probably the runes. But that's it. Magic doesn't work in the TVA, it's not just the stones Most people have a problem with it because they just insist that the stones follow the logic of the comics. No. No one is mandated to do that

[@px43]

I think it's important to keep in mind that the concept of an "Absolute Point" was just something that the Ancient One came up with, and it may or may not be consistent with how the TVA, Kang, the Watcher, etc understand the stones and the multiverse in general. Just because one group says something's true doesn't mean that we should just take their word for it. I doubt that all the powerful beings in the MCU have a conference or something where they share notes and agree on consistent verbiage and rules for how things work.

[@leontriestomeme9712]

They never said that infinity stones could only be destroyed by something from their universe, only that each stone from the different universe was unique, and they didn't account for that when designing the infinity crusher.

[@JLLunsford1]

The stones from each universe are slightly different from those from all other universes; so, maybe some sets of stones can work in more than one universe and some sets can only work in their home universe.

[@DannyPageOfLight]

I recall reading someone on TV Tropes suggesting that whenever Ultra-Vision was outside his native universe, he could only use the stones' full abilities to alter himself in beneficial ways, since he is from the same universe as those stones he's using. Then again, that doesn't explain Strange Supreme being able to counter U-V's time stone with his own while in the other's home universe.

[@fierceblade1014]

Something else that’s an insanely cool detail is that we now know that Strange Supreme is so powerful he can use his sling ring to transcend realities as seen by him dropping in the Zombies

[@venm766]

I've been wondering this whose to say he does absorb kilmonger and Ultron as well as the stones in his prison and branches off into the mcu

[@ked49]

@@venm766 killmonger and Zola can’t be absorbed they have no magical potential

[@tiago9977]

7:04 You could probably justify the Time Stone working differently by saying that it was used differently. When Thanos used the Time Stone on Vision, & Doctor Strange used it on the apple, they both looked like they were turning a dial to rewind/ fast-forward time bcos they were only affecting one thing (i.e. Wanda didn't get back up when Vision was rewound). Even when Doctor Strange used the Stone to rewind the chaos in the city at the end of his movie, he used it while *he* was moving, & time just rewound around him, but you could argue that the way he used it to try to save Christine was different - he could have been using the Stone to rewind *all* of time & essentially transplant his consciousness into his younger self since he was instantly in that particular region of space (i.e. at the car instead of in the sanctum where he used the Stone), & in different clothing.

[@Joeshcast]

The stones should work in the citadel at the end of time, if Loki and Sylvie’s magic worked there?

[@dashinhayes]

That putting out the lightning and fire analogy was actually pretty spot on lol

[@griffinvanzandt6628]

Can you do a Video explaining how strong the watcher is compared to eternals, deviants asguardians, and Midgard people. Also how strong ultra vision is compared to a celestial, Kang or galactus same with dark doctor strange. Thank you

[@piruto6155]

I think we have to wait til we see how strong thay are on sxreen

[@griffinvanzandt6628]

@@piruto6155 maybe after Nov 5

[@getnkosi]

Please PLEASE P L E A Z E!

[@d0mm137]

The reason they didn't work on loki wasnt because they were in a different universe. I think it has something to do with he who remains and how no magic worked at the tva not just the stones..

[@randyvelasco9766]

Exactly! It's in the comics that Mr. Fantastic says the stones only work in their respective Universes. In MCU canon that's never stated. LOKI just says that the stones don't work in TVA as you said

[@sweezxo]

Yeah i don’t see how ppl don’t understand that when it’s clearly stated in episode 1, and also the fact that each pair of stones form in different ways and can even vary in power on some occasions

[@Joseph_Green]

Or maybe they are supposed to only work in their respective universe and that’s why the Watcher was so confused saying “this is not possible “ so I’m thinking ultron figured out a way to modify the stones or something like that and it would be explained how he did it in season 2

[@Revanaught]

@@randyvelasco9766 Technically the MCU and the comics should still be part of the wider multiverse continuity, though, in all fairness, Richards said the infinity gems didn't work across universes. He didn't say anything about infinity stones.

[@randyvelasco9766]

@@Revanaught valid point, and I've considered that. I know Mysterio in Far From Home says Peter's Earth is 616, but he turned out to be a charlatan in the end.

[@danielmarques7665]

You're assuming, for weeks now, that Thanos only loved Gamora! In our universe, that is true! But in all universes?? Come on, there is a universe where he loves only a pet turtle, for all i care... And he threw it to get the soul stone... Done!

[@bverrue602]

What if Hank Pym or as I like to call him "The Straitjacket" had some or all Infinity Stones?

[@javi-hy8vv]

These videos with Erik and MT are therapy for me

[@SelfMadeTVMikeyxf23]

One thing I know whatever Marvel time Doctor Strange always uses the time store

[@AaronBiller]

If the stones become powerless in Loki, maybe it's not because they don't work outside of their home universe, but rather because their universe has been pruned.

[@McCheeseincakes]

I think the big problem here is that we're trying to include rules, laws, and standards, in a place that we've been told has infinite possibilities. Ultron said as much when bringing up why the infinity crusher didn't work.

[@chrismay9878]

There is a huge difference between someone like Thanos who can use the infinity stones maybe 3 times before it kills him, and someone like Ultron who actually has the durability to channel the full power of all the stones - and therefor the power of the entire universe - indefinitely. That is why he is capable of transcendence like evil Strange. You need to fully control your universe first.

[@McCheeseincakes]

There's a big assumption here that Thanos would know that there's multiverses to cross over into, it is very possible to be holding a tool and not know of it's complete capabilities.

[@thomasmooney5927]

Where were the Mutants? Fantastic Four? Doom? This would have been a perfect time for an intro.

[@dantepierre1948]

I am scarred for life after thinking about what MT said at 13:18. And what’s even worse is that it just makes perfect sense to me for some reason. The TVA is the only people that know for sure if that’s true🤣🤣😳😳

[@Phredd2k1]

In episode 2F09, when Uatu plays Ultron's skeleton like a xylophone, he strikes the same rib in succession, yet he produces two clearly different tones. I mean, what are we to believe, that this is a magic xylophone, or something? Ha ha, boy, I really hope somebody got fired for that blunder.

[@wade5697]

Christine Palmer's death isn't absolute point, Strange losing what he loves most is absolute point and it works in all universes. Thoughts?

[@aexious]

So he just really loves his hands? That... checks out.

[@wade5697]

@@aexious it's an oversimplification of events but yes.

[@eatschmitt4265]

I think a big part of why thanos didn’t detect the multiverse is due to the time frame he had them. 21 days after the snap he destroyed them. From the way vision went about almost personally killing everyone in the universe he probably had the stones far longer giving him time to see the different possibilities of having all the stones

[@akiokoh7481]

ye i thought the same.. personally i think since ultron had the time to conquer his ENTIRE universe, hes probably more acquainted to the power of the all infinity stones and its full potential. Thanos had all the stones for what? Maybe a total of an hour? If u think about it, all thanos did was snap, teleport to his farm planet and snap again.. honestly maybe even less than an hour. Ultron had it the entire time while he took over his universe thats months, maybe years to analyze and use the stones fully, and with him essentially being powered by the mind stone he probably fully became one with the stones and gained some sort of higher understanding

[@eatschmitt4265]

@@akiokoh7481 so thanos held the stones for 21 days according to the movies. But he didn’t do anything else with them. My guess is he was too weak and injured after the snap and the battle to use them again to destroy them immediately. Other than that yeah that’s exactly my thoughts. Not to mention he’s an super advanced ai supercharged by the mind stone

[@akiokoh7481]

@@eatschmitt4265 ye and on top of that his body is just a vessel.. he could just snap the universe consecutively if he wanted to and destroy his body for all he cares. All he needs to do is have a backup of his consciousness and another infinity stone body gauntlet and hes good to go experiment lol

[@masterofmythology]

Couldn't it simply be that in different universes, the stones are in different locations, and acquired under different circumstances?

[@RellHearts]

For real, that’s what I was thinking. Honestly all of this what if stuff might be simpler than people are thinking. For example in episode 8 where Thanos has the soul stone but Gamora is still alive. Maybe in that universe Thanos loved somebody else.

[@MrJackfaire]

Also that Age of Ultron takes place years before Infinity war so a victorious Ultron would cause Thanos to start his Stone Quest early

[@lukekalisz1817]

Perhaps the infinity stones are like keys and every universe has the same locks. In other words, infinity stones don’t transfer power from their native universe, but instead channel the power from the universe that they are currently in. Places like the TVA exist outside of a “universe” and therefore don’t have infinity power to channel.

[@thorprime2523]

Infinite universe's means infinite variations, this would include the infinity stones, where stones from one universe may not work in another, but other stones could.

[@burneyboys02]

19:52 I love a good Legends of the Hidden Temple reference. Damnit I wish CW casts me for a Season 2!!!!!

[@NickCundiff]

Doctor Strange technically didn't turn back time when he cancelled out Ultron's time stone, he simply used power from it in the same way that Ultron could use the power of the stones while between realities fighting the watcher. It can also be argued that Strange never turns back time at all in the final episode because he only used the power inside hime from the creatures he had absorbed to absorb Ultron's explosion.

[@theromangeneral]

Two things I wanted to note on. Firstly in regards with the stones working in other universes, while not 1:1 this was the basic idea of endgame that they used stones from a branch timeline to undo thanos' snap. Secondly, it wasn't that something from the universe of the stones is needed to destroy them only that each universe'sstomes are slightly unique and the infinity crusher was designed to destroy the stones from its universe

[@MrJackfaire]

Exactly it could have crushed the stones but would have needed to be recalibrated to match their frequency

[@iloveumali]

soul stone doesn’t require the person you love to be sacrificed, it just needs a sacrifice. “that of which you love“ refers to a soul/life

[@josephhumes3731]

Couldn’t Ultron just have made all of them cease to exist like Thanos did with half of our universe?

[@strangerq21z37]

Only when it's funny. - Roger Rabbit.

[@RogueWolfArtist]

Stop time and rewrite reality. I feel a near-omniscient A.I. Would have done more, but I’m definitely not disappointed with what they did.

[@courtneyanderson2703]

Is it me or does MT have that Fire Marshall Bill🔥 laugh😆😆

[@jkbell87]

I think maybe Thanos didn’t know about other Universes because Ultron didn’t really know about them until he heard The Watcher talking. Thanos had a very specific thing he wanted the stones for and likely didn’t know how much power he had at the time. There’s still a lot of mystery around the stones within the MCU itself.

[@abelhart5510]

23:50 Wanda destroyed the Mind Stone in Infinity War. And the only reason they didn't destroy the Time Stone was because of Strange's oath to protect it. Remember when Tony suggested they stick the Time Stone down the garbage disposal, Strange responded "No can do. I swore an oath to protect the Time Stone at all costs." not "That's impossible. Oh, and also I swore an oath."

[@zachgoldman2851]

Thanos had 5 stones in 2015 in the 8th episode because like in the live action MCU, he was waiting for an opening. In the MCU, Thanos began his mission for the stones right after Odin had died as well as when the Avengers were split apart. In What If, Odin likely died while he was in Norway because of Ultron destroying Earth and the Avengers were dead. This leaves an opening for Thanos to get the stones and complete his mission, but he did not realize how powerful Ultron was.

[@AsstProfLotus]

Mmm... the multiverse didnt exist before Loki. The TVA was pruning all other realities outside the Sacred Timeline, so Thanos couldn't be aware of a multiverse that didn't exist.

[@dahliazaylinsage]

Twice in a day I'll say it xp thanks and safety as always guys!!

[@DJ_Khal_Rhaego]

I always thought the stones worked because the universes are colliding, since the universes overlap both sets of stones are relevant

[@Rizky-im2vh]

I think it's time for Marvel to introduce two different things: 1) Multiverse 2) Multi-Timeline, same universe but different timeline I think it could explain many things

[@JoshV_TX]

Love the weekly “Erik makes MT cry from laughing so hard” segment.

[@OscarASevilla]

the what-if's that we saw were all related from that "sacred" timeline. Thus, since they spawned from the main mcu, then we can assume that Marvel is trying to create a MCU multiverse, completely separate than the comics multiverse. Thus, we now have a multi-multiverse

[@Swellnesss]

Another thing to consider @10:30 is that as an artificial being with unlimited hard drive space and access to all connected digital human information in existence, his experience and understanding of all science and general knowledge far exceeds anyone else we've seen other than He Who Remains or whichever Kang variant fills the power void he left which is what Ultra Ultron Supreme. The struggle to get to the top is what its all about now, I love how its unfolding.

[@NoLifeGrogu]

I agree with both of you I’ve enjoyed each series so far for different reasons, it’s been really entertaining thus far. My ranking: 1. WandaVision 2. Loki 3. What If…? 4. The Falcon and the Winter Soldier

[@mpr746]

Mine is a bit different: 1- Loki 2- Falcon and the Winter Soldier 3- What If 4- Wandavision

[@morethanonebraincell674]

Can someone please explain the difference between Alternate timelines (from LOKI), Branched Realities (from What If), and Branched TImelines (from What If ep.4). The main question here being how/where do (TVA, Void, Citadel) and watcher's place fit in? This is asking too much, but if possible please draw a map of all this and link the picture. Thank you!

[@jmgidk1481]

y’all have been DELIVERING today

[@spameranne]

extended riffs about fireworks safety, love it

[@cokalabmusic7090]

Vision was injured badly in the main mcu universe before thanos got there, he knew how strong vision would have been with the mind stone, that is why he sent his team to catch them by surprise

[@JNel77]

The simplest explanation is that 2014 Thanos didn’t know about the multiverse. Ultron didn’t even know until he heard The Watcher.

[@poppyshock]

Around 23 minutes, Erik is talking about the 5 years still having passed between the Snap/Death of Thanos and the Time Heist/Blip, thanks to the influence of the atomized Stones. But the no-change to the 5 years was a stipulation of Tony agreeing to help in the Heist, not necessarily the atomized Stones. He didn't want to lose Morgan and his peaceful family life. They might have been able to reverse the disaster completely.

[@jabari.n]

that gender reveal party joke killed me 🤣

[@aliengranpa]

I think mt peed a little bit on that one 😂

[@n8m8___]

Why didn’t Ultron just get stones from every universe??

[@NatePlayzs]

I’m guessing because he can’t use stones from other multiverses as the infinity stone crusher didn’t work

[@christianrapper]

Why? His stones worked in every universe. It didn’t matter.

[@NatePlayzs]

@@christianrapper that’s not what I said, I said he could only use the stones from his universe

[@christianrapper]

@@NatePlayzs no you didn’t. You said “why didn’t ultron get stones from every universe??”

[@NatePlayzs]

@@christianrapper I was saying that he could use stones in other universes but not use stones FROM other universes

[@abelhart5510]

(10:49) Part of the reason Ultron Vision could travel the multiverse was because he had all 6 infinity stones, but the other half of it was that he had become aware of the Watcher and the existence of the multiverse only after he had destroyed all life in the universe and was the only one left. His intelligence and awareness was heightened because of his situation. So Thanos was not aware of the Watcher or the existence of the Multiverse at the end of Infinity War.

[@JosephWolfson]

MCU multiverse is different from Comics multiverse. I mostly believe this is because origin of the Eternals is so different.

[@DarkQuiet]

If Zombie Thanos had gotten the Mind Stone and completed his gauntlet, he would have turned half of all zombies back into regular people.

[@Dev_Soren]

Rockstars, Is it possible that Ultron was trying to explain the "bending of rules" when he said each universe's stones are unique from one another? It's possible that what he was referring to was that while our MCU timeline's time stone is restricted to the rewinding of time, creating loops or fast-fowarding to see possible outcomes, his own could be used for freezing time and the Dark Strange's could be used for straight up time travel. Each of them would have different propeties and abilities, unique from each other

[@tig77ga77]

Here’s the thing you guys are going in thinking that Thanos knows about other universes……. Remember majority of them thinks there world is the only world…. So thanos not know the power to shift thru different worlds makes sense.

[@abdilrahmanf1311]

I’d love it if marvel made a wolverine Easter egg where regardless of the film or series, there’s a scene in Madripoor or somewhere in the world at a fight club and there’s Adamantium claw marks on some wall, as an Easter egg for him

[@Dutch3k5]

I think the combination of ultron being a supercomputer and having the infinity stones allowed him to be conscious of other universes. Also combine the fact his universe was completely destroyed allowed to home in on his other senses

[@mydoggylives]

They can fix all the plot holes they created with one simple sentience... "What If episodes are not canon to the MCU."

[@lydellb8116]

What if... The watcher is gonna be like Stan Lee and just make weird apperinces in everything.

[@RemotHuman]

Wait, since every universe's stones are unique, maybe just the universe ultron is from work everywhere? also doctor stranges one works for some reason, maybe because he is more powerful than infinity stones? Otherwise ultron would just get infinite infinity stones from infinite universes so he would never be defeated (He's got to be that smart right)

[@cheezyfish]

The stones don't work in tva because it exists outside of time, come on guys your better then this

[@Problemsolver434]

Not really. Magic in general doesn't work in the TVA. The MCU never said the comic rules were canon. These guys just decided to conclude that despite no evidence

[@rykerising1409]

The only reason I slightly rate Loki over WandaVision is the finale. The MCU has had a tough time making compelling final chapters for its movies and the fact that Loki didn't have some over the top CGI or crazy battle made it fresh and Jonathan Major's performance was awesome.

[@jfbowers369]

Ultron with one infinity stone is to Thanos with 5 infinity stones as a street thug with a knife is to a fully trained unprepared Samurai.

[@strangerq21z37]

Bad writers just make smart characters stupid. Because they can't make their own characters smart. Ultron is not a smart character in What if. Everyone else - Tony, Thanos, the Watcher...is stupid. This is exactly what happened with Game of Thrones characters when GRRM was replaced with Dan and Dave.

[@tiago9977]

8:50 Zombie Thanos having collected 5 Stones & knowing where the 6th was going to be did seem weird, but you could probably argue that he had a way of tracking the Stones or using the ones in his possession to locate/ communicate w/ the others. In Infinity War it also seemed kinda weird that Corvus Glaive & Proxima Midnight knew exactly where to find Vision/ the Mind Stone in Scotland, that Ebony Maw & Cull Obsidian knew exactly where to find Doctor Strange/ the Time Stone (despite him being the Sorcerer Supreme & undoubtedly having a number of protection charms, including on the Sanctum itself), & that the Black Order knew Vision had been taken to Wakanda.

[@andrewallston3139]

The thing about the dead stones in the TVA, is that those are from time branches that no longer exist. But the stones still exist in the primary timeline… rendering the pruned branch stones powerless since they no longer belong to any time in the universe. 🤷‍♂️

[@quadcitygamer1554]

Actually the rules didn't change if you think about it the Avengers when they went back in time they were still in the same universe but when they fought Ultron they were taken from a different Universe not a different timeline in the same universe so it makes sense

[@KeshmarOrange]

The thought of the TVA doing nothing to Infinity Ultron just boggles the mind. They could've just invited him in to render his stones inert, instantly killing him.

[@jeremiahdetweiler1639]

What if has always been my fav, it's just amazing that I get to watch all of my fav stories come to life.

[@crontemisto8994]

If MT would be terrified to know the universe could be blinked out of existence at any moment, he should definitely NOT look up quantum vacuum decay.

[@Kpapa91]

There really needs to be a "What if there was one more episode of season 1" episode of What If.

[@s.v1404]

16:17 why cant it just be that the stones Ultron has are rounded, so the stone destroyer cant destroy them, or the material they are made of are harder then the stones of Gamora's universe?

[@dBades]

One big thing that everyone forgets about the stones from Loki is that the stones were useless there because the TVA is not in any specific multiverse but rather its located between space and time (maybe quantum realm), unless I'm missing something?

[@TheDcapson]

I'm literally thinking this always! The stones didn't work in the TVA because no magic works there. It had nothing to do with timelines.