Nick Cave on faith, grief, and music: The Newsnight Interview

The singer songwriter Nick Cave, best known for fronting his band Nick Cave and the Bad Seeds, talks to BBC Newsnight.
The artist talks about the death of one of his fifteen-year-old twin sons, Arthur, seven years ago, and how he has addressed loss and grief through music, particularly his hugely lauded album Ghosteen.
He talks about his new book, Faith Hope and Carnage, which is distilled from a series of telephone conversations during lockdown between Cave and journalist Sean O'Hagan, in which the musician talks about questions of belief, faith, grief, love and his music.
In a rare TV interview, Kirsty Wark also hears about his project, The Red Hand Files, in which he solicits questions online and then responds to the ones which pique his interest with advice and musings which are often tender, and sometimes funny.
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Website: www.bbc.co.uk/newsnight
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[@stewartcohen-jones2949]

I have been a homeless man now for too many years. The way Nick talks about churches resonates with me on a very personal level. I hold all the scepticism he speaks of, I see all the logic and reason of science and philosophy very clearly and yet when I walk into a church I feel I am at home. A warming sanctuary that comforts me in a way the secular buildings provided for the homeless does not emanate.

[@totalpartykill999]

don't freeze to death out there, man.

[@stewartcohen-jones2949]

@@totalpartykill999 Funny you should mention that. I’m on my last legs. Not long to go now. I love my Bob Dylan. Not dark yet is a song I hum to myself like a timid hymn. Take care Uggy.

[@markushill8639]

@@stewartcohen-jones2949 Know, my dear brother, that neither science and certainly not philosophy are opposed to the Truth of God. The Church birthed the greatest philosophers the world has ever known (St. Thomas Aquinas, St. Augustine, so on), brilliant scientists (Georges Lemaitres, originator of the Big Bang Theory, Isaac Newton, Galileo, so on), as well as phenomenal artists and musicians (Michaelangelo, Mozart, Vivaldi, etc.) Come home, brother. In the meantime, be safe. It's not an easy position that you're in, and you're in my prayers.

[@kingkoi6542]

God bless you sir!

[@adamjknight3045]

Regardless of belief faith or lack thereof we are all brothers and sisters. I send whatever peace and love I have to all of you.

[@bk-ew1ny]

When he spoke of first becoming a fully-formed person as a result of his son's tragic death, it shook me. I was reminded of this powerful quote from the great poet Khalil Gibran: "Your pain is the breaking of the shell that encloses your understanding."

[@dpclerks09]

That powerful quote reminded me of another one, from Yogananda. "Your trials did not come to punish you, but to awaken you - to make you realise that you are a part of Spirit and that just behind the sparks of your life is the Flame of Infinity."

[@azial]

@@dpclerks09 Just beautiful. Thank you.

[@brightermedia]

Yes

[@Ramen_User]

I’m an Aussie .. for the most part I cannot handle listening to most Aussies who have made it in someway, shape or form. Mr Cave is a true exception to that. Always humble, well spoken, intelligent & graceful… a man with life experiences good & bad … he is relatable & real.

[@ErnestPiffel]

Tim Minchin remains grounded too.

[@professoryaffle]

Nick Cave has an uncanny talent for verbalising the stuff that by happenstance I’m struggling to say, or even make coherent in my mind. His level of awareness is something to aspire to.

[@theslosh3059]

Thats what a poet does dude. and the reason nick cave is a gift from the gods.

[@ellengarcia4041]

Good storytelling is an art. ❤

[@Missjunebugfreak]

I recently lost a dear family member to suicide and Skeleton Tree and Ghosteen were the two albums that helped me the most through my mourning & grief. Nick's songwriting offered me a sense of catharsis and comfort in a way that very few albums can. And for that he has my deepest gratitude for writing such powerful music.

[@mikezazworsky]

I hope you're doing well...

[@joyousenoful]

I’m sorry for your loss

[@chippieb759]

Never seen anyone live like Nick Cave. The way he prowled around the stage, amazing presence .

[@ciderbusinsideofus]

I saw Grinderman. Best live show I've ever been to.

[@richiewilliams6875]

Spot on he’s like a bear in a cage by far the best live band around ❤

[@fraser_byrne]

@@richiewilliams6875 Agree - he was born to do it.

[@commonwunder]

Nick Cave is a lesson for all of the cool kids out there... if you're 'too cool' to care, you'll lose everything and then it'll be too late... and your carelessness will turn into remorse.

[@sophiehanky7385]

Ghosteen is the most beautiful album I've ever heard on earth - I love this man - a man with such sensitivity

[@mwng5186]

...who actively encouraged young and impressionable fans to get 'vaccinated'....one wonders how many ghosteen moments this will trigger in others.

[@andreataylor635]

@@mwng5186 ...Oh did he .... that's so disappointing to hear ....

[@dave9547]

@@mwng5186 just looked this up.. how very disappointing. Amazing how many intelligent people either couldn't see through the blatant propaganda and clear corruption or straight up sold out. I wonder how he feels now? Whether he's had a change of mind or whether he's just stuck his head in the sand.

[@foljs5858]

@@mwng5186 so, he encouraged them "to be vaccinated", just like their governments, doctors, media, and WHO did?

[@sandpiper9288]

@@foljs5858 All crooks, unfortunately.

[@tjchesney4997]

Given how he's lost two sons in such a short space of time, well, i'm glad he's doing ok. What happened emotionally, must have been brutal.

[@johndeller9554]

Carnage

[@fugamante1539]

The both of them died!?

[@tjchesney4997]

@@fugamante1539 His youngest son took LSD some years ago and he fell to his death in Brighton.

[@thefamilydog6392]

@@fugamante1539 this is news to me too !?

[@alijames180]

Love to this brilliant man. ❤

[@thomasscottwilliams6672]

Kirsty Wark is always such an empathetic journalist, she allows Nick Cave to talk about big subjects. At no point does she negate his belief system and tries to truly understand the importance of her interviewee. A great insight.

[@ceeemm1901]

"Grief is all the griefs coming together' .....that is SO true. All those sad moments that we denied, culminate at that poignant no- nonsense, no denying tragedy.

[@Sirius263]

Two spiritual quotes - by Sufis - stirred within me listening to Nick. Thank you, for this very intimate interview with Nick. "The enlightened are not bound by religion" IBN ARABI "The wound is the place where the light enters." RUMI

[@stephenshirley7715]

So thoughtful and considered. A true artist, an icon and a force of nature. Nick continues to inspire me every day.

[@michaelgeorge4651]

Hi 👋 Stephan

[@shadowandsoul4331]

He is so beautifully humble and open hearted in his interviews.

[@younghanrahan]

The best of the Australian character is humble and open hearted Shadowandsoul. Something the English too often choose to ignore in my experience - even deny in their endeavour to place us below them. By nature we generally ARE humble - and definitely open hearted. You would be hard pressed to find a more open people than Australians (is that too proud?).

[@Gramsgirl-ie8fb]

@@younghanrahan Totally agree. I am very proud to call myself Australian ❤

[@skaara1000]

@@younghanrahan Bragging about being humble :D

[@kieronjohnson8834]

Nope, that would be Kiwi's. I've met plenty of both and worked with lots of Aussie's. The young ones are some of the mouthiest, most obnoxious, insular and generally ignorant people I've met. They go on about Tim Tams and Vegemite as if they were eaten by Jesus at the Last Supper ffs.

[@avtobus1234]

no ego whatsoever from one of the greatest poets and musicians ever. it's so great to see

[@rabit818]

A very revealing interview. Death with in your immediate family is difficult especially if it happens to a young member. Grief will change the entire family indefinitely. I could listen to Nick talk all day.

[@ishowspeed6462]

Yes your right so right

[@robynfortune1379]

This record arrived during COVID lock down and made me weep in my kitchen. So grateful I had time to stop and really listen to an exquisitely beautiful album.

[@naturegirl8248]

My ex husband introduced me to nick caves music and although some of his music brings back really sad times, his music and talent is unmatched.

[@IAmWithinEverything]

Thankful to the Peaky Blinders Series for my introduction to Nick Cave.❤

[@leastone9600]

Happiness as an act of defiance. What an extraordinary artist and man Nick Cave is. I could listen to him.all day. Great interview Kirsty :)

[@carolinebennis9632]

Gifted, talented and the greatest musician of our time .Nick Cave is unmatched .

[@doddsalfa]

Wrong but he’s good

[@estankona]

@@doddsalfa who's best for you..? Can you tell me some..? Name me 10, please.. thank you.

[@doddsalfa]

@@estankona Keith Jarrett Sonny Rollins Björk Nina Simone Gretchen Parlato Joni Mitchell Pat Metheny Miles davis Bob Dylan To name a few

[@estankona]

@@doddsalfa thank you

[@richiewilliams6875]

Yeah so so Right honey 🐝

[@void0094]

Saw him live in Cologne in the summer. It was my first concert. It was amazing.

[@stirlingattfield7678]

Wow, you've set the bar extremely high for yourself there man.

[@XRaySpex000]

that's a wonderful way to start! He is amazing as are all Bad Seeds past and present.

[@robaskham9145]

I love Ghosteen…..no idea how he can sing those words and hold himself together.

[@snoozyq9576]

He's one of my all time favorites. The darkness and the tenderness he can convey with that voice. Hope I can see him live one day.

[@shahzadajan9792]

Wow! What a fantastic interview. Nick Cave's humility and grace shine through this interview on what must be for him very painful subjects on grief and loss. It does. take immense courage and strength to remain 'happy' (perhaps joyful would be a better word as Christians understand it) in the face of all that life throws at you, and one can see that articulated through his music.

[@kingkoi6542]

The happiness of your life depends on the quality of your thoughts Marcus Aurelius

[@ewangent]

Crikey this is one the most thoughtful interviews I've ever heard.

[@noemicubranovic35]

I need to sa😢thank you for everything.... I love you. SP...

[@MrAhuapai]

One of Australia's beautiful treasures. Thanks for the music Nick

[@puncherry]

His shows are definitely a mass, you come out transformed in touch with all your feelings, loving everyone around you, such a gift of a human!

[@meagansmith8881]

Thank you for putting this into words. I've only seen him once before, and it absolutely was a mass. One of the most moving experiences I've ever had. I just bought tickets to his current solo tour. ❤

[@puncherry]

@Chris Janson hey chris its funny because I don’t consider myself a consistent fan at all and just saw him in Berlin once last year 💕 but I always knew I had to go it’s like an intuition of something that vibes inline with your soul. What about you? Whats your Cavexperience? :)

[@juliankenning]

I've liked his music for such a long time and absolutely love how this man has grown both as a writer/musician and as a human being over the decades. From The birthday party party to Ghosteen... quite a journey.

[@suzannethompson8376]

So interesting for Nick to say that he wasn’t a true person before the event. I am deeply moved by the new empathy. Here’s you you beloved Nick and all the true people out there. ❤

[@michaelgeorge4651]

Hi 👋 Suzanne

[@JoanneTelling1]

What a lovely bloke. Up there with Leonard.

[@janetrobertson9199]

Oh that was the best interview. Nick Cave managed to sum up so many things beautifully, especially around faith. I'm of similar age & of similar thoughts & played his music through the ages. There is something so peaceful watching a really smart human articulate so gently & simply the layers of grief & happiness that we all face. Thank you for this interview.

[@GoodMrDawes]

I love the person Nick is aging into

[@ethansaunders2199]

A wonderful, thoughtful, man.

[@sofarawayparis]

Nick Cave is so inspiring. Sincerity is the mark of true artists.

[@tonycairns6728]

It's quite refreshing to see someone who isn't afraid of being deemed 'insane' for suggesting that God might exist.

[@glynisansara]

Nick you will never be old. You are one of a kind and I love your music. The price of love is grief. Much love to both you and your wife.

[@marktamlyn7019]

We are all flawed and to handle great grief like nick has had to do has resonated with me because he is humble and puts our walk in life in perspective.

[@zazukaard1087]

His music saved my life. What a talented and gifted man Nick is. I have been to his concert twice and I will never forget those emotions till the end of the world. Thank you Nick.

[@robyourtime]

I listened to Ghosteen a lot in 2019, after my wonderful grandfather suffered a stroke in his late 80s. When he passed following another stroke 12 months later, I returned to Ghosteen for comfort. It is a wonderfully embracing album, sad but uplifting, and full of light. Bright Horses in particular brings me to tears every time. It's even more poignant when considering my grandad came from the same corner of the world as Nick Cave - those foggy rolling hills of Victoria, Australia

[@gandorwheeze2527]

Such an intelligent and spiritual guy…..also with humour on occasion! I saw the the birthday party live a few times in the mid 1980’s……..that was wild and so debauched (as I was back then)……..thank god we have the wisdom to change for the better as we get older……..most of us do anyway!

[@void0094]

The Birthday Party were great

[@jeffmcguffy8380]

That would have been awesome. I have their 80's concert Pleasure Heads Must Burn on VHS.

[@kattatonik2075]

Yes I saw him in 85 and missed this last tour due to covid

[@dirkbogarde44]

Brilliant, honest and raw interview. Totally fascinating.

[@Durdelly]

Great interview, with a genuinely lovely fella - all the very best to you, Mr. Cave.

[@62Cristoforo]

I didn’t realize he suffered such personal loss and grief. You haven’t lived or experienced life in its fullness until a piece of you is excised, as is with a great personal loss of a loved one

[@markslawinski6948]

I can't comprehend the strength it must take to talk so publicly and openly about this. Its testament to art as true therapy and affirmation.

[@brendonlake1522]

Amazing! I'm so glad society, especially one so secular as the UK has opened up enough for such a blatantly Christian conversation.

[@Rubylove48]

Been a long time since I’ve seen a good long form interview with a genuine artist. not a fan of nick cave’s music but I appreciated this interview coupled with the production values - lighting, camera, editing, and use of visuals - which were very well done.

[@Noneatall246]

There’s songwriting, and then there’s mastery, splendour and genius. Dear old Nick I salute you :)

[@jamieappleseed552]

Mr. Cave is such a beautiful man. Our common bond is that we are only here for a while.

[@michaelgeorge4651]

Hi 👋 Jamie

[@jonlilley9288]

Great interview. Kirsty got the best out of Nick.

[@karolspeight1968]

He’s a lovely man. Fantastic artist

[@stopbunsen]

I'm about to see him live in about 10 days. I cannot wait. He's my favourite live performer of all time. It's a spiritual experience

[@cmadelaide56]

Saw him last night in Adelaide. Absolutely captivating.

[@litalpeled2055]

Saw him this last august- my memory still goes back to the performance. What an amazing show he puts on! Truly, I was slightly a different person afterward You’re in for a treat

[@CJ-ft9yo]

I saw Nick last night at Hanging Rock, were you there ?? Brilliant eh

[@elmedia8692]

So much love for Nick Cave ❤so glad I can watch this on youtube not having a TV licence ;)

[@nickcave6645]

Thanks for all your wonderful comments and sweet words kindly send down your email for more and better conversation

[@Krinsta1]

About two weeks after my husband died, Nick Cave's album came out. My husband went to RMIT and went a local pub in Hawthorn, Melbourne, Australia, to listen to Nick Cave perform. Come Sail Your Ships around me was my husband's choice of song to be played while we signed our marriage certificate. The song at his funeral was Nick Cave and the bad Seeds version of The Carnival is Over. When the album, I don't know which one it was, came out after Leigh's death about ten years ago this wave of something, maybe reality, that this is music that my husband would never hear, my insides turned to Jelly, how could this be. I know this interview happened a long time ago. When my husband died I thought to myself, death is just another part of living that we all experience from every perspective. This interview was very good.

[@grasshopper6655]

Living legend!! Yes, another record with Kylie please!

[@evar1104]

This wonderful man and his band have given me solace so many times throughout my life. Guardian angels.

[@KordTaylor]

Thank you for this interview. It is very heartfelt. ❤️👏🏻🔥

[@michaelmueller8772]

Possibly the best interview with Cave I've ever seen. Thank you.

[@HawkesChris]

Such a good interview Kirsty. I've met Nick, he is an awesome artist and a wonderful person... I'm picking my way through the book. Its full of inspiration.

[@fernandoherranz4095]

Thank you for sharing this BBC and Nick Cave- it's refreshing to hear such a talented artist talk about life and it's complexities/joys/tragedies, and how these have formed us. There are often no easy answers and his music embodies this I think.

[@ManuelaHoferchannel]

Thank you. This was a great interview with a brilliant artist.

[@Buddythunder1]

What a wonderful, thoughtful and sympathetic interview.

[@veerchasm1]

A pastor once said to me that the opposite of faith is not doubt but unbelief. Faith and doubt are two sides of the same coin. Nick expresses his beliefs so eloquently

[@noemicubranovic35]

Thank you so much you have done to me. . Bless you.

[@Strickland_Propane23]

Nick is such a complex and mysterious individual, his music transcends time. Such a great interview!

[@sandraoreilly4527]

Really enjoyed this interview with nick !! Very raw and very honest ❤

[@LANDSEAAIRCANADA]

Truly moving this interview Thank you

[@SuperNova-Steve]

Great Interview- thank you you two. And the tech crew actually, the lighting and set, camera operating were all great. Sound was top notch too. Classic BBC

[@waynecristaudo7220]

I don’t listen to Nick a lot, but whenever I do I always know he is one of the greats - another Everest like figure in the world of song - unique, beautiful- there!

[@jotacalvo]

Nick Cave is one of very few people that I would actually be star struck were I to meet him. His music with Birthday Party and his early Bad Seeds albums were a huge part of my late teens-20’s. Absolutely no one like him. I loved the dark, creepy themes that weren’t overt. It took studying the lyrics to understand who or what he was talking about (such as Mercy and Knocking On Joe, two of my favorites). I am now equally intrigued by this and what he is doing now.

[@Australianzwayne]

What a National treasure. Awesome interview. Thank you

[@jeaninekolasa8113]

just wonderful. genuine and generous sharing. love this interview. Nick Cave, and his beautiful family, a brave artist and person! x

[@user-td6yv6lr7p]

The Red Hand files are definitely worth subscribing too

[@angelofmercy3893]

We lost our oldest son 10 years ago - sending love , respect and admiration to Mr. Cave .. ban assault weapons now !

[@roi.s]

Such a great man. So authentic. We are lucky .

[@annieschlater1534]

A very talented and interesting man. Loved to hear his views on Christ and religion.

[@millmoormichael6630]

I feel he’s like sort of dancing around hot porridge.. It’s the last days and God is calling.

[@thejoin4687]

@@millmoormichael6630 How long ago was the first of the last days?

[@michaelgeorge4651]

Hi 👋 Annie

[@nickcave6645]

Thanks for all your wonderful comments and sweet words kindly send down your email for more and better conversation.

[@markushill8639]

@@thejoin4687 We've been in the last days since Christ's Ascension.

[@zap...]

Just as there is no light without darkness, there is no faith without doubt.

[@MrZipdang]

Nick Cave is such a wonderful communicator, in real time, of the deepening of the artistic and personal human journey. He has always laid himself bare, and continues to do so. Such a wonderful voice in the world, we’re blessed to have him.

[@ruudvanelck7083]

If you think this was great, read the book (Faith, Hope and Carnage), it's magnificent!

[@sqrfoot6548]

I'm just so so sorry Nick I'm just so so sorry. Those beautiful most beautiful boys you had to let go. Love is the answer. Love transcends death

[@puppenbuhnebauchkribbeln1183]

Great interviewer - Nick 🖤👌🏼, as always

[@patrickmccabe3786]

Absolute genius and so modest❤

[@ethicalgovernor4474]

Love how when he smiles it completely transforms his face from the serious artist to a total goofball.

[@RMarshall57]

This is beautiful!

[@christye4246]

An extraordinary human on many levels.

[@ErnieK.]

What a great interview! Thanks to both participants!

[@millmoormichael6630]

Thank God I’m not a “happy” person. I think the idea is to not strive for success or happiness but to be more loving.

[@maryanneevans8812]

❤

[@krisscanlon4051]

Nostalgia...yes...well said...never washed it away...

[@hilarybee1797]

Good on you Nick you get better ie sound better with age. So sorry more tragedy than one should experience. Thank you fabulous hard working BBC xox

[@grantwallace1882]

What a great human being!

[@bleedingstar1011]

This was a lovely interview!!

[@Jabberwocky112]

This is going to sound weird but both skeleton tree and ghosteen did essentially the opposite for me. Last year of bachelors, applying for grad school, family with high expectations, adhd and probable undiagnosed autism. I was very close to killing myself. Already like Nick cave but something about both these albums became my comfort, my home. Thank you Mr Cave

[@schzti2455]

agreed, nick cave soothes my soul. when I listen to his music, even the darkest of songs, I feel a kindred spirit in the universe, that I am not alone, as there is another being/person that understands the intricacies of my aching soul...that i don not have to have fear of being misunderstood. If there is one person who understands then I can be at peace

[@judithhume9047]

Wow...a very intense and very illuminating interview

[@davidgladstone6588]

Probably the only musician I have even noticed in the last 20 years, his song from the Harry Potter movie still with me and he just seems someone I want to pay attention to.

[@lifeontheround]

Beautiful man, always

[@Ponkinette.Veronika66]

Beautiful. What a great man i love son much!❤

[@darylcumming7119]

Many thanks.

[@harriscouwenberg139]

man, I love this guy

[@0otee]

Good interview. Love seeing Nick laugh at moments. Great Musicman🌹❣️