Painting and Outfitting - Skin on Frame Kayak - E7

[@BalancedLugger]

I’m really looking forward to a kit for this!

[@alockyer100]

You and your videos are a joy to watch. I started following during the strip built petrol play and now I look forward to each new video; you've got me daydreaming at work about building my own soon. Not to be hyperbolic, but I think your work is spectacular, an example of the sort of knowledge-sharing and passion-sharing that the internet (at its best) can facilitate. This kind of content is why our parents bought modems. Thank you.

[@leosdebruyn]

I would love some full size plans for this boat, or a kit. I have built a skin on frame kayak before, and prefer them to wooden ones. The styling of this boat is just enchanting. Honestly, I would built a couple of them at least, so my guests can enjoy them when they come visit.

[@wadepatton2433]

I thought holy heck 14oz and latex! but then you said "polyester" and I realized I had nylon in mind. I'm still messing around about building my first boat and it's going to be a Cape Falcon, but I've your book and love strippers and wood. Perhaps this winter will be the one when I get my boat building space sorted and occupied with progress. Cheers to you Nick.

[@donrinearjr493]

I am a patient man and quite willing to wait for complete plans and instructions. A kit would be nice but not necessary. Looking forward to your next project!

[@ironbilly53]

Beautiful boat! Very intrigued by skin on frame boats their lightness and traditional looks. I'd be very interested in a kit when your ready. Always fun watching you build boats

[@dan-ih4jr]

Awesome build Nick! I will definitely build one or 2 of these when the plans and kits are available. I like the 3 week build over the 18 months I spent on my 1st Guillemot Double. I'm about a hundred hours into a canoe build now, hope to have it floating this Summer. I am trying to figure out a hybrid plywood/strip build stand-up paddle board that I want to get going this year as well. I used one of your Robo-Bevels for the canoe, It worked great. The new website looks great.

[@The_Cotswold_Engineer]

I'd be interested in the plans and instructions, and/ or kit. You work is brilliant and your videos are fascinating! Keep up the good work.

[@mnbrown25]

I really enjoy your content! Keep it coming, please. Cheers.

[@williamjarman7466]

As always love the videos keep up the good work.

[@robertpaterson7011]

I'm interested! I'm a new subscriber but long time small boat enthusiast. I would love to see a set of plans for this build, I hope you find the time. Thanks for a great set of videos!

[@terryholdredge6393]

First off, thank you for sharing your artisanal skills. I have watched your videos for years and search for a proper descriptor of who you are and what you do. To simply call you a boatbuilder is like referring to Michelangelo as a commercial painting contractor... it's missing something. Looking forward to more. Thank you again.

[@TheBoptillyoudrop]

3 weeks, that's impressive. The strip build Petrel was a clean looking Beaty, and a great build to follow. This build, I think, was maybe even more interesting, a great combination of simple materials and brilliant craftsmanship. Wonder if this could become a simple and easy solution, if you want to enter the world of diy kayaks? Or for educational projects? Hope you will consider further development, think it deserves it. I'm very curious on how it sits in the water, looks very lightweight. Looking forward to se you giving it a test ride. It is a great pleasure to follow your videos, while waiting for the brighter and warmer days to return!

[@NickSchade]

A simple entré into DIY boat building is exactly what I hope to make with the SOF. It is much less involved than strip or stitch and glue. It is not that everything is easier, but overall it is easier. I'm definitely going to continue development. First I need to build a kayak for a customer, which will be the next series here on my channel.

[@pennywilson7007]

Great series of videos. Thankyou. Are you still intending to have plans for sale?

[@brianna157]

Very interested!

[@bretsons1514]

In your previous video you mentioned that the cloth alone will leaks like a sieve. Is the paint the only thing that keeps the water out? does the boat take on water if you scratch the paint hard enough on a rock? Great video. Excited to see your next project.

[@NickSchade]

The paint ends up completely saturating the cloth. So, it isn't just a thin coating of paint on the surface, you need to cut through the cloth to cause it to leak. Since latex paint is a bit softer than some alternatives, it may wear down more quickly, but it should last a long time, and just wearing through the outer surface will not be enough to cause a leak.

[@qaannat]

the paint, or whatever coating you are using is what keeps the water out. It's impregnated and saturated in a woven matrix so its pretty solid. You might get seepage from a deep scratch, but not a stream pouring in. A hole would be different. But that is why we fit and inflate custom size float bags bow and stern, or other sufficient flotation. The cloth flexes, so impact resistance to puncture and scraping is pretty good. The only skin I have ever broken was a two-part urethane mixture over ballistic nylon, I hit a sharp part of a log at low water and rode over it. The focused point of wood "unzipped" about 7 inches of the skin coating, splitting it, and delaminating it from the fibers of the weave. Still, there was enough urethane embedded in the fiber that I noticed no change in the bilge water level on the hasty paddle home. This was in just-above-freezing temps, so that may have had some bearing. Every fabric/coating combo will act differently, but it is dependable. Personally, I would have coated my polyester skin with a spar varnish, tinted with artist oil paint, but latex will work and it's handy. It's not as durable as varnish tho. YMMV.

[@palmeraz73]

love the look of that kayak. would like to give it a go on building it. was interested on the choice of fabric cover (latex paint). Didn't know latex paint would be water proof or strong enough to last. Would like to hear more on the longevity of the water proof coating. Phil

[@NickSchade]

Latex house paint is designed keep water out of the siding of houses that are in the weather 24-7-365. Given the market size, it is probably the most highly engineered and test form of paint available. While it may not be the absolute best material for sealing a SOF kayak, it is the easiest to use, cheapest to buy, least toxic and readily available. Plus, it is really good stuff.

[@papalagidiver]

Just started watching your channel and love it. Are there plans for this version yet?

[@NickSchade]

Not yet, but still high on the priority list.

[@rogertaylor712]

Great series. Thanks for taking the time to make it. I’ve been thinking about a s&g boat and was going to make your original gulimont but sized up 6% to the xl version. I’m now swayed more to skin on frame. I’ve drawn out your templates in sketchup and adjusted them for skin on frame. Is there anything you’d recommend adapting to suit a skin on frame? Thanks

[@NickSchade]

It should be possible to adapt almost any design to SOF, but it may take some work. The most important thing to remember is the skin will flex and be pushed in between the stringers, so you want the frames reduced in size so they won't touch the skin when its pushed in. The first episode shows what I did to accomplish this, you can probably get some ideas from there.

[@kentblairl]

Nice build. Please save us from our plastic kayaks! We volunteer to be plans beta testers :)

[@NickSchade]

I am not against plastic kayaks. A plastic kayak is better than no kayak at all.

[@kentblairl]

@@NickSchade We have 2Pelican Premium Icons, 10 footers. They hold up the tree when not in use with no complaints. Turns out our son is a great paddler, we'd love to see him in something sleeker. And the Skipper is a seamstress, she has already told me she will be doing the stitching and ironing, but not with her good iron. She has probably already hidden her Ginghers. smallboatrestoration.blogspot.com/p/pelican-icon-lewis-and-clark.html

[@InspiredScience]

Hi Nick, these are a joy to watch, your approaches are so intelligent and well-thought. On that note, I'm curious on the reasoning for latex paint, versus something that would create a rigid structure (eg polyester or epoxy resin). In the video you mention Urethane as an alternative to latex paint. Being that you didn't mention polyester, I realized you must have some reason you prefer to stay away from enforcing the cloth with a rigid resin? Is the goal a more flexible skin or another reason entirely? Thanks again for the great series!

[@NickSchade]

The typical frame on a SOF boat is usually light weight and flexible. This allows it to be resilient when it hits something. I need the skin to work with the lightweight frame. A rigid, inflexible skin would cause hard spots where the boat would start to break. Epoxy or polyester resin tends to be hard and brittle and would not be a good match with the rest of the way the boat is built. Latex is flexible and designed to stretch and move on a wood house. The urethane I could use is also very rubbery and resilient.

[@HoangNguyen-hv1qy]

Are there other types of coating that can be used on skin on frame kayaks or canoes that do not yellow over time? I like the look of a white skin with the ribs showing through. Is white latex paint completely opaque?

[@shlederhosen9795]

This is a cool design, looks like an easier build than a strip, makes me think about building one but with out the CNC. What is traditionally used to waterproof the boat besides paint. Was the cloth a heavy weave canvas fabric?

[@NickSchade]

Definitely, quicker and easier than strip building. This took me 3 weeks, including design time where the Petrel Play was over 3 months. Traditionally oil-based paint has been used on fabric covered boats, but everything from roofing tar to varnish and concrete sealant have been used. Lots of boats have been made with cotton canvas as a skin. This synthetic is more durable and easier to work with. Of course the true traditional skin would have been seal skin, but I don't want to go around clubbing seals.

[@williamjarman7466]

I think having every option is great kit, plans, and instructions. I know you have the SketchUp model already if you have SketchUp Pro you can put it into layout and put in all of the measurements and make that available in PDF form on your patreon page right now and anyone who was willing to donate would be able to have access to that I think that's a great idea and it incentivizes people to go on to patreon and donate. just get the simple plans without the kit or instructions and let people figure it out for themselves. Later on when the instructions are available you can put that on your patreon as well and then develop the kit. No need to respond just a comment and suggestion.

[@NickSchade]

While I could very quickly and easily produce a set of plans, with drawings of all the parts, this would likely make a lot of people angry. Plans don't necessarily tell anyone how to put those parts together. Experienced builders can easily go from a set of plans and build the boat. What causes problems is when inexperienced builders try to work from just plans, is they just don't know how to start. Without good instructions, the novice builder blames the plans for being bad. It is like a set of house plans. If you aren't already a carpenter, you won't necessarily know you need to dig a hole for the foundation before you start nailing two-by-fours. My goal is to provide the necessary instructions that someone who doesn't already know how to build a kayak can successfully build the kayak. Unfortunately, this takes time.

[@williamjarman7466]

If I was at a point that I wanted to build one I would be happy with just the plans. I guess I kind of just want to figure things out on my own somewhat. it would be nice to have more detailed instructions because as soon as I got started I would figure out it was more work than I originally thought and detailed instructions reduce the amount of time and energy it takes. I'm not ready to jump into building and kayak right this minute I already have too many other Hobbies But I definitely enjoy watching your videos thank you.

[@РоманБорисов-п8т]

Can you tell me in what program you are designing boats? Thanks)

[@NickSchade]

I design in MaxSurf and do a bit more CAD work in Vectorworks.

[@РоманБорисов-п8т]

@@NickSchade спасибо большое

[@РоманБорисов-п8т]

@@NickSchade Thank you very much!

[@agualotus]

I’d love a kit! Will you offer the kit or will I need to order thru Chesapeake light craft? I live in northern Minnesota, I own a car, so a light weight kayak is ideal! Even if you can offer up instructions only; I can build this on my own, but a kit would be nice.

[@NickSchade]

I will let CLC produce the kit. I've already talked to John Harris about it. They are eager to do a kit, and that keeps me from becoming a manufacturer. Again, instructions will take time.

[@agualotus]

Nick Schade I highly anticipate the kit then!

[@ehb306]

I found an old skin on kayak in a cabin, thinking about restoring it... Where can I buy the fabric?

[@johnd5805]

Is this being given away to one of your lucky subscribers? Just asking right. Maybe the one with the craziest comment.

[@duendedude2345]

I'm guessing your skin is polyester. Would latex paint be suitable for a nylon skin.re adhesion etc. I guess it should have the required flexability. 2 pack poly is too expensive. I would value your advice.

[@NickSchade]

Nylon is more picky about what adheres to it. The 2-pack urethane is probably a better, tougher finish, but hard to apply and expensive.

[@duendedude2345]

@@NickSchade Thanks for the prompt reply. I have ordered nylon so must find suitable coating. 2 pack poly on ebay/amazon UK is floor paint. Don't know if this is OK. I have seen a post where someone has used yacht varnish but don't know how this worked. Wish I had selected polyester now so that I could use regular paints.Has anything other than 2 pack poly been seen to work?

[@khaderach19]

Any update on plans?

[@АлександрВаулин-ь5к]

beauty :-)

[@johngallagher912]

The elimination of the steam bending makes this building method a lot better. I understand that some people want to remain with the traditional methods, but computer generated forms in plywood with stringers on the outside, should require a lot less skill to build the kayak.

[@theonlyrobot]

You would think it's faster, but I'm not sure. I've done it both ways, quite a bit of time goes into lofting and prepping the forms by hand. Same for drafting and setup work for CNC. That Cape Falcon F1 goes together really, really fast. However, you're much more limited on what kind of boat you can build. I don't think this boat design could be done as well with traditional methodology.

[@johngallagher912]

@@theonlyrobot I was expecting someone like you to do all that lofting, drafting, and CNC work for us future builders.

[@subagon]

Weight?

[@NickSchade]

It came out at 36 lbs (16kg). It could be lighter, the fabric I used was fairly heavy at 14 ounce/sq yd and this absorbed almost 2 quarts of paint. A lighter cloth, with less paint on it would come out a bit lighter.

[@robertotto3983]

Save yourself future agony,Read Harvey Goldens books

[@NickSchade]

Harvey’s books are a world cultural treasure, but the “agony” is the whole point.