Nier Automata: The Illusion of Choice and the Origin of the Soul

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Twitter: / the_infranaut
Nier: Automata is a thoughtful and introspective game. It's a game that asks us to consider our roles as influencers and players, how much choice we really have in a pre-programmed world and ponders the origin of what we would call the soul.
It's also a game where you fight a big worm as an anime.
Thank you very much to SuperGreat Friend who allowed me to use his gameplay footage. Check his channel out here: / supergreatfriend

[@ericsiegel3458]

re: the robots being named after philosophers. I think Automata is somewhat scathing of these philosophers, a lot of the robots are somewhat humorously or ironically named. Like the robot "Marx" is a giant piece of industrial machinery located in a factory. Or Immanuel Kant, a philosopher whose legacy is often lauded as the synthesis of modern philosophy but also his infamy for being anti-social, having barely ever left his hometown as he never traveled, rarely ever partaking in alcohol, drugs or sex - essentially refusing life's indulgences. In this way its perfectly hilarious that Kant in Automota would be a baby that's worshiped as a king, completely lacking in ability to move from his post much as Kant never did. just my 2 cents.

[@mikeitkulof]

This video and your comment inspired me to take a look at the King-child relations, and also to google who the Forest king is. There are Ernst Bloch, studying utopias, and Ernst Cassier, a neo-Kantian. I've observed the latter since the child is Kant and I thought they are connected. So Ernst Cassier (the Forest king) is a neo-Kantian (the child) philosopher, so this rebirth is a reduction of ideas to their previous state, and making him into a child is a backward movement too. More than that, Cassier's known for marrying natural and cultural sciences together, what we see in FK having both mind and body. Child is stripped off his body, like the previous understanding of Kant is stripped of the symbiosis he invented. And the cultural part being his body makes sense (in opposition to mind, or more precise and less grounded natural sciences), since he was basically creating a human-like culture in his robo-tribe, what he can't do now. The least possible connection is his last work being a critique of a Nazi Germany he emigrated from, that "there was a return ... to the irrationality of myth, and in particular to a belief that there is such a thing as destiny. ... Cassirer says that in departing from Husserl's belief in an objective, logical basis for philosophy, Heidegger attenuated the ability of philosophy to oppose the resurgence of myth in German politics of the 1930s". I mean, the Forest King himself became a myth, a cult of memory, and that sounds fitting. I think there's a logic behind every name. But even if it's not, there is always a simple interpretation that it's a play on average games being called "deep". What's deeper than a game where half of a cast is called like that? :b

[@marcusmattern]

This is excellent, the best breakdown of Nier Automata’s philosophy I’ve found, I’m going to go watch all your videos now!

[@infranaut]

Thanks so much for saying so - I have some stiff competition. This game is ganna have a HUGE influence; mark my words.

[@John-uh1pb]

NB. You can also choose just to walk away from Pascal and leave them with their memories.

[@PrecookedEagle]

I'm happy someone shared this on Reddit, I might not have come across it otherwise. Thank you for making such a great video, especially for deciding to go for a longer format to go more in depth.

[@infranaut]

Thank you, I appreciate that. I was really unsure about whether I should split the video in two or drop some things. I ended up cutting some stuff (I went into more detail about why I thought the SMT games offered better choices than most) mostly because they were more supplementary points/issues rather than things that actually moved the discussion forward.

[@John-uh1pb]

Immanuel also means "God with us", making the child a christ-like figure for robots.

[@firedragonosis]

Man, you have to be one of the best video essayists on this site

[@infranaut]

Thanks, that's sweet of you to say. My personal favourite is Noah Caldwell Gervais.

[@neogohanamv]

Regarding Immanuel, while I do think it was a reference to Kant, I also interpreted a double-meaning. "Immanuel" means "God is with us" and was used in reference to the Biblical prophecy of the birth of a messiah which would be an incarnation of God (and a sign of his love). It seems to at least partially fit with the incarnation of this 'baby' machine from the remains of the beloved Forest King, and it ties into the idea of the machines creating their own religions since the machine is hallowed and protected. Then again, as you pointed out, this is a game with a giant worm named Hegel. So, the Immanuel double-meaning could just be coincidence and unintended.

[@saintyoo]

I've found good explanations for most boss namings outside of the forest king so thanks. As for Hegel, this video says "Self consciousness is dependent on the recognition of another consciousness". Although the boss itself doesn't have much to do with it, it seems pretty in line with the following scene with A2 and 2B. I think if you rewatch this video from 10:15 you can see a lot of ironic parallels to what is happening to A2 because of 2B. I really enjoyed the video but not understanding the reasoning doesn't necessarily mean it doesn't have reason so it came off as dismissive. With a little more digging names like Pascal have clear connections.

[@infranaut]

I'd heard that theory before. As much sense as it makes, I find it hard to give the game the benefit of the doubt on that front - more or less every single other major machine is named after a philosopher. That said, woe betide us if we attempt to dive into and understand Taro's rationale.

[@maduinargentus5878]

@@infranaut I think it could very much be both, I mean, the baby is called "Immanuel", and not "Kant", and I can't imagine this not being deliberate. Like, it was a random philospher namedrop (or not so random, I don't know) but also a religious reference that actually makes overt sense

[@agniratha7297]

This video was fantastic! I hadn't even thought about what the machine's relationships in Automata say about consciousness before. I also really enjoyed the stuff about Hegel as I knew nothing about him. The potential future influence of Automata is something that I'm really excited for.

[@htemenmada]

(Even though I had to watch it at 75% speed to comprehend everything in real time :D) Thank you very much for this video! I watch every videoessays I can find about Nier:Automata, because no game ever had such an impact on me. This video really hit close to home for me. It evoked those exact feelings I had when I was playing the game. This was the first video I saw on this channel and I instantly subbed of course. (But man, you talk fast :D)

[@TheMidas_Touch]

Great Video! It reminds me of the whole ludonarrative dissonance in video games, one for example was in the 2016 tomb raider and how she was afraid to kill someone in a cut scene but before that I was murdering everyone with shot gun. One thing, I can't remember if this was actually a thing but when Pascal ask you to wipe him or kill him I think you have another option to walk out the factory and do neither.

[@infranaut]

Yes! You can indeed simply leave the room. I considered talking about that but was worried the video was getting a bit overlong as it was. Basically, the way I see it is that the game doesn't tell you you can just leave - you actually have to press "back" to leave the text box asking you to delete Pascal's memories and then walk away rather than attack. Moreover, however, the game really rubs in your powerlessness with the trophy after killing/deleting Pascal, and doesn't so much make a deal out of sparing him. That said, it's maybe a bit cheeky I didn't talk about that at all.

[@TheMidas_Touch]

Infranaut I see what you mean! It almost felt like a Easter egg (probably not the best term) of sorts since it isn’t made clear that you have that option. However, this could also be confirming what you said and how we are so use to killing or destroying in games that some may never try to look for the passive route.

[@AldousShitbird]

I never caught that bit about the end credits directly fulfilling 2b's wishes. Great vid m8

[@Z10ZeeTen]

8:48 I love how the editing creates this implied narrative that Hegel killed Kant lol

[@fatalhitx]

I absolutely loved this deep dive into my GOTY from 2017. Nier Automata holds a special place in my heart and you've opened my eyes to an even deeper meaning within it. I can't wait to see what else you come out with!

[@infranaut]

Thank you kindly. I have had a doc on my laptop called "No More Heroes is the Smartest Videogame ever made" that is empty and may remain so until I die

[@xarezarcs4125]

There is also a third option for pascal where you can just walk out and refuse to take either choice.

[@DeadEndFrog]

because of the end of nier automata, one could say they solved the issue of 'replaying the game' for more content, atleast they gave it a try

[@phillipcontreras720]

Probably have heard this but there is a third option when Pascal wants A2 to kill him. You can just walk out of the hanger and leave him. good dialogue ensues.

[@syxx19]

Michael Saba just brought a video out explaining a bunch of the philosophers in the game, really worth checking out. They play to their names.

[@infranaut]

Thanks, I'll gitve it a watch. I'm not that educated in philosophy, but I DID know about Hegel and Descartes so when I got to that part of the game my proverbial ears pricked right up.

[@ninecoffees]

13:13 "Don't @ me" LUL

[@Dunoid]

This was excellent! You've got a new subscriber

[@infranaut]

I appreciate it, thanks!

[@Vodaklol]

Excellent video about my favourite game ever, well worth the watch and sub.

[@Reddebrek46]

If I had to guess I'd say Immanuel is a reference to Kant's extreme ethical stance and how if it were followed to the letter would result in a child like state. The robo baby never lies, cheat or behaves unethically it simply existed at the mercy of the world.

[@infranaut]

That makes a kind of sense - it could also be read as a quite blunt criticism of Kant.

[@barbaricwalruses2835]

Awesome video; really fresh perspective on a game that's been analyzed to death.

[@infranaut]

I think there's so much in the game that once every couple years from now on we'll get a length video essay about it. It's impact is ganna be pretty huge.

[@Nero_Aelous]

That was a great video, thanks!

[@mbe102]

5:24, holy crap, I played the entire game not knowing you could dodge the shots in the top-down-shooter mode, haha. Jeeze. Love the game though, and this video is fantastic!

[@infranaut]

Don't worry - that footage isn't mine. I didn't know until the last fifth of the game either, haha.

[@Viking102938]

Soul; an ancient Greek word synonymous with "psyche". To put it another way, a soul is "the nature of something" or its "essence". You don't have a thought, you are the thought; you don't have a feeling, you are the feeling. You don't make a choice, you are the thing that's happening. You aren't pushed about by fate, because fate is an abstract construct, one you've been taught; so is predetermination. You're just as much the thing doing the pushing as you are the thing being pushed. It's as if people brushed their finger along their arm and thought "I'm the hairs being brushed" rather than identifying as the sensation that comes as a result of the hairs being moved. The universe has a heartbeat; a pulse, and it's you

[@buffysnart]

such a good video on my favorite game :)

[@jangxx]

Great video! subbed!

[@SubwaytoSally111]

Very interesting video!

[@UrsulaDorada]

Great video!

[@reero.]

Really good video

[@royoconnor8646]

I really want to play this game simply because of that.

[@infranaut]

It's on sale every other month now! You should check it out

[@carpetlayenful]

Supreme video

[@JimPanzeeEsq]

I thought Shin Megami Tensei got round the problem you mention by having the best outcome only earned by working the hardest? So the worst ending, you give up partway through the game, the universe fades away. Easy path. Or you can side with either Law or Chaos, that faction wins, the cycle continues. Normal path. And the balanced route, side with no group, start your own. It's diificult o remian nuetral as all sorts of actions you take will tip you into either faction plus in IV, you are required to finish of multiple side quests that have you running all over Tokyo. when you reach the end you will have to face both factions. Hardest path.

[@Mid0z1]

Amazing dissection of the game, I will just leave one note as I once said to another person who made an also equally amazing analysis of the game for 3 hours, you need to play the game in japanese voice acting, the experience is completely different. here's my subscribe kind sir

[@TheWaagher]

Different but not necessarily better. Both original and English voice acting have their good moments and I think it's better to try both.

[@Mid0z1]

They do have their moments, but as an arabic native speaker, both japanese and english are foreign to me, and the impact of the voice acting of japanese speakers and japanese as a language adds a whole new layer to the events and the game as a whole. on the other hand, the english voice actors did a pretty good job but their performance lacks.. connection to the scene, if that makes any sense. anyway it is just my opinion, and it doesnt make it right or wrong, i just personally prefer the japanese version over the english one for a better experience

[@KoolBillDojo]

You can always leave Pascal... not kill him... not wipe his memories...

[@carson3370]

The game gave us the best waifu tho

[@jmlee337]

what do you think about the argument that a player always has the real choice to stop playing? The Stanley Parable explicitly tells the player to "open the menu and press quit".

[@infranaut]

It's an interesting idea that a lot of games toy with, but sadly it doesn't really make sense in Automata. If the player quits and the robots stop, that's not a decision that influences the story or is explored/supported via mechanics. I think "not playing" should only really be considered an option when it somehow actually ties into the game world. The best game(s) that incorporates this into the story is the Dark Souls trilogy. In it, the player no longer playing/getting bored/frustrated and quitting in-universe is seen as your character going "hollow". Going "hollow" in the world is what happens when a person loses their reason to live, and they become an empty shell. So in Dark Souls, if you stop, your character becomes a hollow, empty enemy in the world. In Automata, however, I don't see how this would work. You could maybe make the argument that the player quitting represents the Android's overcoming their programming and no longer being spurred on to fight - however there wouldn't really be a reason for this change to occur. I'm sure there's an argument in there somewhere that makes sense, but if I were a betting man I would say that isn't an option Taro and pals considered when making the game (despite the abundance of joke endings where your character just leaves)

[@jmlee337]

If I'm understanding correctly you are saying that in the case of this game (but maybe not some others), quitting isn't a meaningful choice *because* it's not an option the developer intended? this would imply the premise that meaningful choices in games can only be exist where the developer intends, which (in my opinion) is pretty indefensible. btw I'm truly impressed by how much you wrote in less than 10 minutes, clearly you've thought about this a lot, as you said.

[@infranaut]

Well, I think if the developer hasn't considered quitting as an option with ramifications themselves you're just assigning your own meaning to quitting. That's perfectly fine, mind you - it's just not what I'm most interested in talking about (especially in game like Automata which bother has LOADS going on in it and is already a video of 20+ minutes). A video on "endgames" is an interesting idea, though. For example - Animal Crossing has no "end" but DOES recognise and PUNISH you for not playing it (your house fills with roaches and your friends get sad and move away). That's actually pretty bleak, in-world, as no player goes back to that game every day for the rest of their lives.

[@jmlee337]

I think I can see where you're coming from. Thanks for the replies!

[@gtabro1337]

Well apparently they company that built the androids in Detroit Become Human did a better job

[@thorisalaptop]

Anyone know what the 16bit-y game shown in the first 20 seconds or so is?

[@thorisalaptop]

@@synapsii I should have been more exact with my timestamps, sorry. I recognized Undertale, it's the game after that from 0:20 to 0:29 that I can't place.

[@thorisalaptop]

@@synapsii Thanks!

[@infranaut]

My apologies, I should maybe list things like that in the credits. It's "Gods will be Watching" - the title is a direct reference to the player being a "judge" who watches and influences the characters of the game. It's a very hard game and quite talky (the writing is also not always on the ball), but overall I think a very unique and interesting experience.

[@sycastells1212]

I dunno. This is making me ask myself some really weird questions about reality and moral identity. And that's a bit annoying tbh.

[@infranaut]

If it's any consolation it's still a cool robot anime game

[@sycastells1212]

@@infranaut Yeah and now I guess I'll have to play it sometime.

[@ArcturusOTE]

@@infranaut A cool robot anime game with nice buttcheeks and, as these new kids say, pro gamer moments whenever you find them