Nightcrawler’s Religious History & Christianity in X-Men Comics | Krakin' Krakoa

[@claytonlaney]

I really love the fact of Nightcrawlers fate. He is a great example of what it truly means to be a Christian and I like the idea of a mutant theology but I hope he stays Christian because he is one of the few Christian characters in the comics

[@DarthPoyner]

He's Catholic. Not Christian.

[@Tyler_W]

@@DarthPoyner catholics had claim to the name of Christian before Protestants even existed. In many ways, many Protestants hold to fewer orthodox tenets than RCs do, and then there's the Eastern Orthodox, some of whom don't even consider RC's and especially Protestants not to be real Cbristians at all (that's not universally true, of course). We can argue all day and night about institutions and which core doctrines are essential to one's right to call himself a genuine follower if Christ (and yes, I have plenty of problems with the RCC as an organized political institution myself) but for all intents and purposes, yes, Roman Catholics sincere in their faith in Christ and the way in which they try to live their lives accordingly are just as Christian as any Protestant and Eastern Orthodox of like mind and spirit. I know I've come late to comment on this video, but this really isn't the place to be seriously arguing over us vs them while people are just talking about comic books and characters they love...

[@atdcaffeine]

@@DarthPoyner Same thing. Catholicism is just a branch of Christianity that existed way before any other branch existed.

[@reydelsol2753]

​@@DarthPoynerHe's Azure, not blue.

[@Melancholian]

​@@DarthPoyner catholics are way more Christian than Protestants

[@Tyler_W]

Nightcrawler is easily one of my favorite X-Men (he's up there with Wolverine, Cyclops, Jean Grey and Rogue for me). I appreciate him now more than ever. As someone who, at least in one way or another still considers himself a Christian in that I have faith and trust in Christ and desire to follow him in relationship with God (and all of the successes and failures that come with it along the way), I appreciate Nightcrawler because of his sincerity of faith, his willingness to ask serious and deeply personal questions in pursuit of truth, the humility with which he admits when he might not have all of the answers, amd his good example of character in the unwavering love and care he shows towards those around him, even toward those unlike himself (seeing the image of God in everyone, no matter how wounded or distorted). The fact he's an adventurous, life-affirming, fun-loving, down-to-earth and all around cool dude just rounds it all out. To some extent, I kinda see myself in the character, but he's even more an aspirational figure who, in many ways, represents what I would consider my ideal self, and I want to read every story I can find where he's a primary character. (Honestly, even though I love many comic book superheroes, the only other suoerheroes who elicit a really personal identification with are probably Spider-Man, Daredevil, Superman, Nightwing, and Invincible).

[@DarlingDreadful]

Hey from 3 years in the future friend. Going through some stuff rn and relate to everything you’ve said. Especially seeing Nightcrawler as “my ideal self.” Just wanted to let you know reading this made my night. It’s good to know there’s other people like me out there. Hope you’re doing well mate.

[@Niall001]

Revelations is part of Catholicism. The Rapture is not. It's actually a very American piece of evangelical theology. Austen, however, didn't bother his arse to actually research, well, anything.

[@Comicbookherald]

Thank you, yes, that's what I meant to get across.

[@slibertas1996]

The Rapture is part of Protestan theology

[@Niall001]

@@slibertas1996 Not most forms of Protestantism across the world.

[@maureenseel118]

@@slibertas1996 It's fearmongering.

[@Dracobyte]

Yup!

[@Eldagusto]

There was a comic where night crawler was a priest! I remember reading it, it might even have been a Nightcrawler limited run but it was sometime between 1999-2002.

[@Eldagusto]

Wait I think I misunderstood it was this neo storyline I think I was referring to.

[@coffeebreath5325]

Incredible commentary as usual. Your videos have literally become part of my NCBD routine.

[@davidmendez5933]

SAME! Comic Book Herald is a must!!

[@maryse8]

Paul Smith's art is divine. Loved the Brood Saga. Great review, Dave.

[@gnost3k144]

My fav time of the X-Men

[@ryann.6689]

Kurt is my favorite too! The conversation between him and Logan before they take out mother mold was one of my favorite moments in comics.

[@jedibattlemasterkos]

I'll never forget how Nightcrawler's faith drew me into Xmen comics as a kid.

[@LegacyFable]

It is very inspiring to see superheros to have real religions like this as a Christan I don't really see superheros go through the same things as I do not that it's important but it's really nice to see

[@pats646]

Did Kurt ever get his soul back? He lost it when he left heaven and it was brought up that he couldn't die in x-men gold because of his lack of soul. Then it's kinda never mentioned again and he is able to die by hickman's run? Did I miss something?

[@sammywilliam8156]

Absolutely love that they showed everybody's life not just the mutants and it shows that not all catholics and christians in the excellent universe are like the psychopathic Reverend that we all know in the x men universe a lot of them are upstanding citizens that don't really care who you are what you are as long as you're Your intentions are good and the character of your heart is pure and coming from somebody who is pegan it is extremely satisfying to have somebody like nightcrawler who is religious but he's not pretty nor is he pious😊

[@joegahan7055]

God loves man kills was a great book

[@BigBWolf90]

Nightcrawler looks like a demon but Kurt has the soul of an angel. Also his dad isn't really a demon, he's a demonic looking mutant

[@Otababallin]

God bless Kurt !

[@prometheuslens7825]

I’m so glad Nightcrawler is a big part of X-men ‘97, and they kept with Catholicism intact 😊

[@wayneashford5697]

Just read 'Amazing X-Men' featuring Nightcrawler's (brief) soljourn in Heaven after he died... found it interesting & actually ❣️❣️❣️❣️ it.

[@Prime6165]

I always assume that mutant religion would revolve around the Phoenix and how it would also come through for mutant kind. It’s that one being that saved them from extinction

[@Sequelaboy7]

In Moira's 9th life we get to see that both Cardinal and Percival are believers of the mutant religion. Though Percival seems to be brain-dead, repeating "There was a dream. Our dreams are the same. While you slept the world changed." I believe Krakoa (as a nation) is striving to become a pantheon on itself. Both the concepts of mutant magic and mutant technology go towards the synergy of five mutants telepathically connected, making "the X of creation" as En Sabah Nur called.

[@DarthPoyner]

The problem is that any powerful force in the Marvel Universe is only as powerful as the current writer wants for that story. Look at Galactus right now. He used to be this god level being that was a force of the universe. Un-killable and inevitable. Now he gets killed every other story. The phoenix would be a horrible god. Plus it is just the manifestation of life that got caught up in a powerful mind. And idiots will latch on to anything more powerful than themselves thinking it will save them. That's why some mutants used to worship Magneto as a god. Marvel is horrible when it comes to religion.

[@dlove3623]

Good research, thank you. It makes me wonder what a person (mutant) must feel when looking forward to going to Heaven after they die, only to be resurrected on Krakoa? Maybe it depends on on important they are to the mission, but do they have a choice & if not, would they resent Charles for taking them away from Heaven (if it exists for mutants?) All of that aside, there was another mutant who wrestled with religion, Nate Grey who many considered a 'Mutant Messiah' & even he had questions on what that meant.

[@DarthPoyner]

You cannot copy a soul. A soul is not just your memories and experiences (the Mind part of mind/will/emotions). So basically what you have is a mutant dying, their soul moving on, a new being created with new soul, then memories and experiences copied onto that new soul. Mostly academic except to the soul that moved on. There is some mention of one of the minor "guardians of the underworld" that they have not had any mutant souls since the change. But that doesn't mean anything. Another thing that marvel(AKA hickman) is getting wrong when they ASSUME that a soul is just the memories and experiences of a person. Previous stories talked about the difference between a mind and the soul. Even different mutant powers that would affect each.

[@nobodyexceptme7794]

Another amazing vid, will we get an x factor wrap up video?

[@davidmendez5933]

You know we will. It will be a huge issue as well as a sad goodbye.

[@alfieingrouille1528]

I love nightcrawler

[@timboslice980]

I’d love to see daredevil and nightcrawler have a team up to save the pope or something like that. Just give me one issue where the virgin mary saves them from certain doom in some non obvious way.

[@Dracobyte]

I am here after the Nightcrawler rage-bait drama!

[@kojimachado8376]

whoa, that mention of "the death of death", possible mistress death/cancerverse implications down the line...???

[@carlosfontanez6475]

Nightcrawler is roman Catholic

[@trealsteve]

Big Facts. Everyone is saying Christian, but there’s a stark difference between that and Roman Catholicism.

[@carlosfontanez6475]

@@trealsteve sorry but Christianity is off bash from Roman Catholicism. So let go with fact. In truth Roman emperor Constantine took a lot of the original text from the Jewish Bible. Look i don't want to have a argument the truth is. A lot of people these days don't know the actual facts. Since man use that book like a weapon. You know i speak the truth. I know we can agree on that

[@DarthPoyner]

@@carlosfontanez6475 Christianity is indeed an offshoot of Roman Catholicism. And Christianity is also apart from Catholicism. Much more than different denominations like Lutheran and Baptist. They are more like the difference between Christians and Mormons. They all claim to follow Christ's teachings but have wildly different beliefs in what that means. So tRealSteve is correct in making that distinction.

[@brittoncain5090]

Not sure exactly what all you guys are saying, but Catholicism is the original branch of Christianity, any other denomination broke away from the Catholic Church

[@georgefuentes4112]

Amen!

[@JR-ft3ed]

Anybody know what happened to electra?

[@Tyler_W]

Pretty sure she's masquerading as Daredevil right now while Matt is in prison.

[@slibertas1996]

Wolverine becomes a Christian. X-Men TAS and in the 616.

[@ddave7026]

Glory to God

[@DarthPoyner]

I like Kurt, but I wish marvel would leave Christianity alone. They never have the right information and rarely treat it with any respect. Just do what DnD did and make up your own. Notice they don't mess a whole lot with islam. They are afraid someone will blow up their HQ building.

[@BakumanLakuman]

I've actually never seen this perspective. In your opinion, are there any right examples in comics?

[@shawnboahene5231]

I like they attempt to try to tackle Christianity, however, you are right they get a lot wrong due to secular writer not knowing a thing about our faith

[@coldnova1037]

revilation is in the catholic cannon but look at it different the prodstent. but I dont think religions would change by mutants existing we have people with birth defects and abnormalities but that doesnt change anything so dont think mutants would need a new religion unless they found some other deity to believe

[@shawnboahene5231]

God is the same today, yesterday, and tomorrow. You’re right even if mutants existed it would change nothing. However, I was a bit offended by the idea of creating a new religion. As though what we Christians and other faiths for that matter just made something up and follow that. No! As a Christian we believe that Christianity is exclusive way to have fellowship with the LORD. It’s a truth claim not something we merely fancy.

[@jasper2572]

I've been trying to read the Claremont run when does the dialogue get less wooden I've read god loves and man kills and loved it

[@BlueMageWithSoulEdge]

I like what you are doing. I think you are still giving too much credit to Austin, likewise I think you are overly optimistic about current Marvel. If your sign off was about Stan/Kirby Marvel, I would agree with watching to see where it goes, but it seems like you've been left out the loop about current Marvel. Trying to develop commentary or delve any Christian meaning from current Marvel is pointless, because unlike Stan/Kirby Marvel, where faith was a tool for either fables or fairy tales, current Marvel made it clear they hate Christ. The progressive Marvel started with "Battle World", where at the end [the now atheist] Reed Richards remade all realities in his image. Current Marvel is literally founded on an atheist dream. That is not me reading into it; it's in the comic. When you looking into Marvel management, the three top women in charge of creatives are declared Marxist. Looking for Christ in current Marvel is a fruitless waste of time. Example: Kurt died and went to heaven. He didn't go to an alternate dimension like Scott, nor was he stuck in limbo like Logan-- he saw GOD. He experienced death. The afterlife wasn't some hellscape, nor was it a merging of different religions-- it was as Christ says. Even if he leaves, he KNOWS what is beyond. He received his rewards-- he knows without a doubt the truth. If Current Marvel was serious about the "Mutant religion", then it would be a more confident Christianity. There is a hell, as Christ says. There is a heaven, as Christ says. There is a mutant that can show and tell physical evidence for both sides-- there are no more excuses; there are no more arguments. Christ is GOD and his way is real. But current Marvel will ignore that 'cause that would be a very Christian message.

[@JMM777-td6nk]

I think from good belief and understanding that Christianity and Magic do not mix, some Christian heroes have been born superpowers but I don't think superpowers are magic. Shouldn't there be any Christian Superheroes that don't use Magic cause how could they know God but God doesn't know them if they live by magic?

[@EuropeanQoheleth]

14:14 Heh, you mean tenets?

[@terrorbilly3367]

revelations is part of catholicism , just not rapture

[@Frst2nxt]

Miss marvel practices taqqiah

[@Tyler_W]

Based. Seriously though, all joking aside, I don't much care for Kamala Kahn (mostly because I'm always automatically annoyed by blatantly obvious and unambiguous self-insert characters in fiction that aren't done for the purpose of satire or self-reflection), but I feel like Ms. Marvel has a ton of untapped potential if only she had a writer that would write the character honestly and take seriously all of the real cultural, social, political and religious questions and implications that come with the idea of a westernized, first-generation Pakastani girl from an allegedly traditional Muslim family as a main character. The problem is that she and her family are mostly treated like a sitcom parody version of a real family from that kind of background, so it often feels more like dishonest propaganda that isn't very true to life than motivated by genuine storytelling. She's one of those unique characters I don't like, but I still want to like anyway because I can see the potential in what she could be were she written believably and earnestly by a real storyteller rather than by ideologues and propagandists. It's frustrating becaise she very well could be the relatable and endearing character that Marvel insists she already is. Not that everything about her has to be those heavy things, no dofferent than how Kurt Wagner's faith isn't all there is to his character, but if her cultural and religious context was taken more seriously like it is for characters like Nightcrawler or Daredevil, it really could do wonders toward cultivating organic popularity for the character (as opposed to the mostly astroturfed popularity Marvel insists she has because they want to force people to like certain characters instead of elevating characters based on their organically earned popularity with the audience as a byproduct of focusing on good storytelling first and foremost).

[@smorillo8581]

Bring back Azazel, the Immortal Demon/Mutant leader of the Neyaphem and ruler of the Brimstone Dimension! There is so much potential Hickman can do with him!

[@Tyler_W]

I wouldn't be surprised if he comes up in his Inferno event.

[@ramalam5536]

Night crawler is Catholic, Catholicism is a denomination of Christianity.

[@reymafias6404]

Why does Krakoa need a religion? Is atheism such a horrifing option? Spurrier has already talked about how Way of X is about a much deeper philosophical quest, I don't get why everyone is trying to read it as the search for an alternate cult to follow.

[@spiderhamilton1]

If you read Nightcrawler's appearances in the Hickman era and expounded upon in the first issue if Way of X, it explains why he feels a religion for mutants is needed on Krakoa. Also I think you are looking at this from a purely western view of religion and the book is going to explore much more than that. The title alone gives many clues to the wide scope of religious and philosophical concepts it'll tackle. The Way of X, with way being the English word for Tao representing Taoism and X having a double meaning representing mutantdom but also traditionally seen as shorthand for Christianity. All religions aren't about the worship of gods or dogmatic rule following. As to whether or not Krakoa needs a religion, I think this title plans to explore that very question. Also, atheism is about not believing in the gods and the divine not religion. For many people, atheism is their religion.

[@Niall001]

Because most people did not come to Karkoa as atheists. Many came as theists. The idea that they'd all suddenly abandon religious beliefs is unrealistic.

[@steveqhanson6835]

I'm not a believer in any higher power but I can appreciate searching for meaning in our lives. Kurt has always been one of my favorite characters and it makes sense to me that he would pursue questions of purpose. I suspect you might find the writers address your concerns and discuss whether or not there is a need for religion in this new mutant society.

[@DarthPoyner]

@@steveqhanson6835 Also because he is seeing a rot set in with the younger mutants in the guise of their blaise treatment of death. And due to Kurt's faith, he seems to be searching for an answer that is deeper than just thinking. Whether you like it or not there is more to man than just mind and body. And you cannot feed that part of the man with what you feed the mind and body.

[@yokiryuchan7655]

So...Jesus could heal sick people by just touching them... Turn water into wine, walk on water, and come back from the dead. Sounds like a mutant to me...

[@coolest1seven814]

How can they do mutant religion and not talk about Apocalypse

[@spiderhamilton1]

1) Who say the won't at some point? 2) Why would they?

[@coolest1seven814]

@@spiderhamilton1 I mean his name is Apocalypse can't get more biblical then that guy was around before most religions were founded and was worship as a god himself

[@spiderhamilton1]

@@coolest1seven814 🤣🤣🤣🤙

[@hotpocketpete5256]

What if Legion is fractured because he is living all of Moira's lives or is retaining resonance from each...... and inevitable... destiny is inevitable....

[@mercuryman1250]

He's a demon he can't be redeemed.

[@alfieingrouille1528]

Wtf is wrong with you?

[@georgefuentes4112]

I’m assuming you are Protestant?

[@trealsteve]

Can’t wait for all of this to be over and the actual X-Men return. This is getting stupider and dumber by the day.

[@claytonlaney]

I think that if god exists in the comic universe, which it doesn’t really matter because it’s just some made up art and characters (still freakin amazing) he would have known that they would have been ressurected so he probably didn’t take them to heaven because he knew they would just be ressurected

[@DarthPoyner]

If God exists in the comic universe then the resurrections wouldn't change anything about going to heaven. The way they are copying the mind would not copy the soul or spirit. So the mutant souls are moving on to the afterlife and new souls are being imprinted with their memories and experiences. More academic to those not moving on though.

[@Tyler_W]

Lot of interesting philisophical, theological and metaphysical assumptions being made about the soul, the relationship of the soul to the body, the afterlife and what it actually means to die and "go to heaven."

[@h0lezee]

I think they pushed Kurt's Christianity too hard in the movie, and it was weird when he became a priest.

[@shawnboahene5231]

What do you mean they pushed it too hard. I could only remember a few scenes it was even mentioned

[@h0lezee]

@@shawnboahene5231 I think it was the religious symbols that he had carved into his skin that bothered me. That was an extreme that comic book Kurt wouldn't have gone to. The message seemed to be that people of faith are weirdly extreme. I don't really agree with that. Kurt's faith was always part of who he was and what guided him, not some form of masochistic symbolism with which he decorated himself.

[@kylvarvoglar]

I hope he doesn't create a religion based on Christianity or the Abrahamic God, a mutant religion should be based on creation/and the Phoenix.

[@shawnboahene5231]

Why would you when everyone remembers the dark phoenix and the phoenix 5? The phoenix always causes more problems than it solves

[@ImmortalHulk447]

Abrahamic religions are the most "wrong" in the marvel universe.

[@mostshenanigans]

Abrahmaic religion is no more wrong than any other types of religion, Marvel universe is big enough for every god ever conceived.

[@ImmortalHulk447]

@@mostshenanigans Read Howard the duck max.

[@generalzues]

Thank u for this breakdown. Nightcrawler used to be one of my favorite characters until they made him religious. Way of X #2 just came out. I'm loving it cause of Legion & the reveal of Onslaught.

[@crackedhammer4612]

Nothing wrong with some fictional characters being religious