Nihilism and Post-Modernism in Hollywood

[@DRush76]

I think the Disney suits, Rian Johnson or J.J. Abrams DO NOT understand what Lucas was trying to say in his six films. Not really.

[@michaelpalmer5351]

Ruin Johnson and Jar Jar Abrams? No way! :D

[@GuardianAngel871]

Yeah, I have been thinking on how everyone that worked on the current Star Wars films completely and utterly missed the point of the entire six film saga.

[@BlueChrome]

I'd say quite the opposite actually, they know exactly what George Lucas was trying to say within the original StarWars universe because he really did come out and say it publicly. The headache for Disney is how to cash in on the visual iconography of the existing films while gingerly skirting around the original works core messages. Given the rather poor reviews so far, I'm guessing they're really struggling to pull that contradictory trick off to anyone's great satisfaction.

[@PsychoticSmith]

What was he trying to say?

[@BlueChrome]

Casey Smith>- Same thing as everybody else in the sixties counter-culture movement that opposed the Vietnam war. Only as he found out the hard way, if you say it out loud movie goers will punish you dearly at the box office, so he codified everything behind traditional story archetypes when it was time to make StarWars 'long ago, in a galaxy far, far away' (WINK, WINK).

[@DerHammerSpricht]

Basically Star Wars and Hollywood have been taken over by Rick Sanchez "Oh yeaaaa Morty, you wanted to see Luke Skywalker do some cool shit, you like him, think he's a--he's your childhood hero Morty? You wanna see Luke Skywalker defeat Evil and save the day? Well guess what MORTY, good and evil are MEANINGLESS constructs, it's all a JOKE, Luke Skywalker is a joke Morty, just like Jesus and Buddha and Santa Claus and the notion of anything you do ever being right. This isn't special. Your love of Star Wars isn't special. There are infinite versions of this happening right now... blablabla I hate anything healthy that doesn't need my self-loathing overthinking to be ok with itself." Postmodernists in a nutshell

[@andmicbro1]

I think you could argue Rick Sanchez is a moral nihilist. The difference being that Rick and Morty kind of embraces that moral nihilism and emphasizes it. So it works for the kind of show it's trying to be and the kind of message it wants to send.

[@edwardblake8575]

Obviously he's a nihilist, he destryos entire worlds without giving a fuck. Some people argue he is not because ultimatly he cares about his family, but truth is everyone, even the most harrdcore nihilist will get attached to something, that's a human condition

[@edwardblake8575]

Yeah, but it's a really bad message. I don't say it's not funny, but it's kinda dangerous, especially when teenagers watch it

[@DerHammerSpricht]

+Treyson Funny, I love Rick and Morty, I actually think the show and its writers agree with me wholeheartedly about Rick. Especially lately, we see Morty stepping into his own skin more and it's clear Rick has just been standing on nothing the whole time, like of course he was terrifying and intimidating to an abused 14 year old virgin boy, but the boy now understands this and sees that the real joke is Rick.

[@MrLaggan]

That is the point of nihilism life is a joke we are the punch line I will not claim to ne correct it is just my point of view

[@suflanker45]

A ton of people today don't understand the concept of good and evil.

[@sethfarmer590]

Definitely not. So many people have said that Luke was made relatable by TLJ.

[@mhss1992]

They ruined Luke for me.

[@reservationsrentashare7102]

They dont want to make you think of good and evil. By design all the lines are blurred so they can appeal to as many different people as possible. The business model = Brand is so big everyone will watch it so dont try anything controversial.

[@Aivottaja]

Beyond the Star War movies, there are so many blurred lines of good and evil. The Jedi we're not sparkly good guys; there are numerous sins to their order. A jarring example would be the murder of their padawan because they were afraid of a prophecy. Their stagnant, dogmatic structure basically kept feeding the sith order and the dark side. Many wars, many conflicts, many casualties. Not because of the light or dark side, but because of what was build to use it and restrict its use. These were the themes and story decisions I made the mistake of expecting from The Last Jedi. And they hinted at this with trailers and preview materials. Luke knew the history of the Jedi. He knew of their failures. It started to seem he was in favor of going back to the ways of the Je'daii or adopting a Grey Jedi approach to the Force. There was so much speculation and potential for this. I was hesitant to bring up this example because Luke had the same idea as the ancient Jedi: to eliminate Ben to prevent his possible destructive efforts in the future. But the example still stands because the Last Jedi did not fail in this way because of this being contrary to how the Jedi are presented in the movies. It failed because it assassinated Luke's character. While the ancient Jedi or even the not-so-distant-ones might be guilty of such hypocrisy, Luke Skywalker would not. He was not like the Jedi before him. He was optimistic and true to the infinite compassion the Jedi preached. He would not plot to murder a sleeping kid - especially his nephew. The idea is absurd. These hints were made on pupose so they could wave it to your face, take it away and burn it all. Literally in the movie itself. The end result is a purposeful deconstruction of Star Wars. It's like using aggressive anti-chemotherapy. They want to specifically preserve the cancer cells and destroy the actual body.

[@transformersloverjon]

I'm asking you this legitimately: Can you please define the terms "good" and "evil?"

[@perpetualloading]

they killed Luke Skywalker and Yoda laughed at him in one scene and it broke my heart and it was just terrible. it was too loud and ruined the whole mythology.

[@Myth_or_Mystery76]

Seriously?? What the heck?

[@jeanstravinsky6579]

Jeezze... Really? I think I better skip this one... The TFA was absolute godawful in any case, probably one of the worst big budget movies ever made.

[@troyevitt2437]

it made NO SENSE that Luke dies if he was somehow astral-projecting the whole time.

[@FrancisXLord]

Yoda was misrepresented. It was based on how he acted when Luke first met him in TESB, not how he acted for the rest of the film and in ROTJ, TPM, AOTC or ROTS. So they took how he acted in two scenes in a one film, as a ruse to fool Luke, and ignored how Yoda acted in no less than five Star Wars films. I think Rian Johnson is bullshitting when he said he was a Star Wars fan for not knowing that.

[@sukathodos]

Except as you say, it was only two scenes in one film, so how would he even know about silly Yoda without also knowing about proper Yoda in every other scene? I think he knew exactly what Yoda's character was supposed to be, and exactly what he was doing by turning that inside out. It lines up perfectly with him having Bizarro Yoda torch that tree, and with all the rest of the deconstruction of Star Wars in the movie.

[@johndeer7716]

To clarify: Nietzsche didn't create nihilism, he warned against it.

[@DVSPress]

+John Deer correct.

[@FaithfulofUltramar]

John Deer he also argued against a lot of established dogma and power structures such as religious organizations? It's been a long time since I've read his works but I think he also argued against nihilism and early forms of whataboutisms

[@johndeer7716]

>he also argued against a lot of established dogma and power structures such as religious organizations? What he meant when he said "God is dead" was not that that was a good thing. It was a realization of the fact that religion in the West(Christianity) had lost its teeth and thus would fall out of favor with many. He also predicted that socialism would kill tens of millions in the 20th century. Prescient.

[@davidbastardo4154]

Philosophical nihilism already existed by the time Nietzsche published 'Also Sprach Zarathustra'. And where it was perhaps the most popular line of thought was in the Russian Empire.

[@92brunod]

@@johndeer7716 he did openly criticize Christian morality and the master-slave mindsef of it for example.

[@joescott7500]

"only a sith deals in absolutes" - Obi Wan Kenobi States an absolute

[@operatorenabla8398]

Now that I think of this, look at some extreme atheists in the world, they state: "Only religion states in absolutes, only religion is based on dogmas" but they actually do the same, by saying "Only science-based things are true", when science doesn't even work like that.

[@HolyknightVader999]

Science is practically a theory-based process. On can never disprove God with it because our level of science doesn't tell us everything. Maybe we can come up with a future base of science that can detect God.

[@1nuttattoo]

Do or do not

[@agent.-_-5846]

Exactly, everytime I hear this I simply bring up communism, aka Atheist-state.

[@heraldstephacont9656]

Flint McFreely ummm lol? And there have never been any wars caused by Christians or other religious groups? Right now your basically saying all atheists are nazis. Why the fuck did someone bring religion into a comment that had nothing to do with religion.

[@reptomicus]

Deconstruction works better from an unrelated space opera series commenting on Star Wars. Doing it from within Star Wars is like Cortez burning his ships while he's still at sea.

[@Aivottaja]

Unless you wanna hijack the ship/franchise. Which in many ways what they are doing is. Destroy the insides of the series and replace it with your own contents and keep using "Star Wars" as the label of that husk.

[@rollotwomassey]

At least Cortes won...

[@you3001]

Outstanding cultural analysis. Western Civilization is in serious trouble.

[@you3001]

man0z Yes, I agree. I've studied the Frankfurt School & critical theory a few years now. Glad to see this info is finally getting out. Cheers!

[@you3001]

man0z You've got to be kidding.

[@derpanzerkommandant4641]

man0z You nuts. Please go away to your cave.

[@WoWSchockadin]

If you think I should be ashamed of myself, that's the best compliment you could ever say to me. Ursula Haverbeck? Maybe the only 90+ person ever to get in jail because the denies simple facts. Have you even been to germany? Have you ever seen an Konzentrationcamp from the inside? You talk about thing you just do not understand. The Nazis were just the most evil ever in history. Even Lenin and Stalin were not as evil as Hitler was. But okay, keep demonstration how dumb you are. You make me really ashamed of humanity.

[@WoWSchockadin]

See, you clearly want a genocide but also think to be on the "right" side. You doom people just for being born by a jewish mother. Nothing else is needed for you to wish they get killed. If you can't see how wrong this mindset is, there is no hope for you. And please just stop spreading all these lies. Air raid shelters? That's the most cynical thing I've ever heard. As you are obviously not able to understand what happened 1933-1945 there is no more reason for me to talk to you. I have said, what have to be said: You are a Nazi and want Genocide. That's it.

[@drewmintz9012]

"That requires humanity" was savage. Great arguments and very well spoken. Sub-a-lubba-dub-dub

[@DR3ADER1]

Yeah, "Humanity". The same "Humanity" that still advocates stoning, the defence and immunity of intolerant cultures from criticism and genocides. Morality and Humanity are hypocritical by design, and as such, it is pointless to support, advocate and praise them.

[@lenircotia]

"And I think a lot of people still liked the movie because they don't have any values themselves." 8:51 min THANK YOU!!!!!! YOU MADE IT CLEAR!!!!! YOU SPOKE THE WORDS OF MY HEART!!! HONESTLY THANK YOU. THAT IS WHAT STAR WARS, WHAT GEORGE LUCAS TRIED TO CONVEY THORUGH ALL 6 STAR WARS MOVIES AND THAT IS VALUES!!!!!

[@DarthPreamp]

Yes! Thank you. It disturbed me greatly how nihilistic the new Star Wars movie was. Nihilism is incredibly dangerous and to have the cultural might of Star Wars associated with it terrifies me.

[@LightAndDarkMdness02]

Daniel Gil Star Wars is, and always has been nihilistic if you look close enough. Read my other comment as to why.

[@DarthPreamp]

LightAndDarkMdness02 I think you are actually correct

[@Heroics64]

I can't find your other comment but the idea of the force with a light and a dark side to me goes against nihilism. It's kind of like free masonry or Lucifer it's morally neutral knowledge it's self it only becomes "right" or "wrong" based on the individual users actions.

[@LightAndDarkMdness02]

NickGBeats Here you go dude. Star Wars has always been very nihilistic to those who pay attention to the lore, etc. Just as Lucas said, the Star Wars galaxy is stuck in a cycle of war that keeps repeating over and over due to the Force. The Force wills the Sith and Jedi to kill each other to create 'balance' which inadvertently plunges the galaxy into war. Star Wars is the story of a galaxy that never changes and is constantly at war. Let me break it down for you~ Okay, in summary the Sith are Apollonian and are supposed to represent Order and stability, and I know what you're going to say, "Then why do they constantly destroy each other?" This is because of the most important and driving factor of the Star Wars universe: The Force. When George Lucas made Star Wars he wanted to introduce the concept of God and noted that it could be reduced to a single chromatic concept- An unknowable entity that manipulates causality. The Force has a will that gives everyone a destiny and by that definition could be considered the Star Wars Galaxy's God. Yet no one refers or worships the Force as such. To be strong in the Force is similar to having province from God. Compared to other mythologies, the Force is unique in that it never communicates directly to anyone. There is no Flaming Bush or physical manifestation of The Force. Every person in the Star Wars universe by their own volition must accept their destiny, but interpret the consequences. Even Anakin, the literal embodiment of Jesus Christ in Star Wars must make his own choices. There are two ways the Force can be used as a magical power, by suppressing the ego and emotions to be in tune with the Force, and use it as an ally, or by enforcing the Ego and Emotions to draw out the Force and use it as a tool. The manner in which the Jedi and Sith use the Force is the key to the puzzle. Being Apollonian, the Sith are individualists meant to be rigid and emotionless like a rock, but by drawing power from the Force for selfish gains they become dionysian, mad with power and emotional. This is called using the Dark side of the Force, which has been misunderstood to be a side of the Force when it's actually a side EFFECT of using the Force selfishly. Similarly, being dionysian the Jedi are supposed to be collectivists meant to be fluid and emotional, like a river, but by suppressing their ego to be in tune with the Force they become rigid and unable to change. The Jedi and Sith literally flip places with what they would represent in real life and become hollow to obtain power. This is how the repetitive cycle of the Sith vs Jedi came to be. In our world, according to Nietzsche, all higher civilization arose from those who impose their will, desired power, and prayed on the weak. This is known as Master Morality. Then, those who were oppressed by those in power created their own system of morality in opposition to power, and saw themselves as superior by not desiring power. This is Slave Morality. In dialectic terms, Master Morality can be considered the original thesis for morality and Slave Morality was formed as a reaction forming an antithesis. What makes the Star Wars galaxy so unique though is that Master Morality and Slave Morality are reversed, with the Slave morality being the original thesis for the Jedi and Master Morality with the Sith being formed as a reaction or antithesis. Aka the One Hundred Years of Darkness in Star Wars lore in which there was a Civil War within the Jedi Order which gave birth to the Sith. This reversal presents the Master Morality of the Sith as evil, and the Slave Morality of the Jedi as good but only because there is NO alternative due to the existence of the Force. Either you forsake your humanity and teach the way of the Jedi or use the Light side (effect) of the Force, becoming selfless; or you become agents of Evil that bring ruin to the Galaxy by succumbing to the dark side of the Force. This is why the Jedi do what they do, this is why they indoctrinate Force users, this is why they cut off all ties with others, because there is literally no other option. If anyone were allowed to embrace their humanity, they would become greedy, and fear losing their loved ones like Anakin did, and from there, the Dark side is like a powerful drug which you can't get enough of. Furthermore, due to existence of midicholorians, there will ALWAYS be Force sensitives. Which means inevitably, due to the inherently selfish nature of life, there will always be Dark side users or Sith. That means the Force will always plunge the galaxy into war to eliminate the Sith and exterminate the corruption (the dark side). This is what Lucas meant by, "It's like lines of poetry, it rhymes."

[@miguelpereira9859]

LightAndDarkMdness02 Well that makes total sense but is also kind of depressing

[@OGStarwars]

Today’s modern society is a nihilistic one. Looking at the new sequel & wanting “grey Jedi” is proof. A grey is not anything - not good or bad. 🤔 They want to annihilate the Jedi order, ways and moral because they are extreme? What good, good morals, protect the galaxy, selfless? They want Jedi have no moral standards. Very interesting take.

[@Garry_Combine]

Alorha Baga you don't understand the grey Jedi do you? Every one that's read the Star Wars Expanded Universe, Star Wars Legends and Star Wars Knights of the Old Republic understands the bad. The middle of the force, the grey, is cowardice. It's having the power and knowledge to change things for the better or for the worst, but not doing anything. It's standing to the side and letting the universe burn, or prosper. It is a bad ideology, but you have to understand it before commenting on it. I say this Disney will water it down and most likely change how the grey Jedi ideology works and make it this relativism nonsense!

[@Aivottaja]

If the faults of the Jedi Order were lampshaded in the movies more effectively than just letting Anakin act as the light bulb of that idea, this "need" for the Grey Jedi might not even exist. I don't think this "need" reflects society getting "bored" with good triumphing evil. I think it reflects people having devoted much of their life to Star Wars fandom and coming to the conclusion that instead of the extremes of sith and jedi, the pragmatic, stable approach to further Force-related lore would be the unexplored middle ground. Luke - having studied the numerous failures born from the Jedi Order - beginning a new school of Jedi without their dogmatic and passive MO. The way TLJ reflects this valueless society is how the movie acts like a meta-commentary. The huge faults and anti-Star Wars elements of TLJ don't really have anything to do with the Grey Jedi. Did you not notice the hammy good and evil lines the movie drew; the virtuous, ever-succeeding women, the evil and stupid white men, the omnipotent and infinitely boring Mary Sue Rey offering Kylo to return to the light side, the sadistic and animal-abusing rich arms dealers etc.? BTW, the Grey Jedi do have moral standards. In effect, their view of the Force demands more discipline and self-contorl than either the jedi or the sith. They are not called grey JEDI for no reason.

[@chrissonofpear3657]

It's gotten very complicated. Was Qui Gon a Grey Jedi? Vergere? Jacen, before Troy Denning sabotaged him, implicitly taking Vergere down as well? What about Mortis and the Guides Yoda met in the Clone Wars?

[@OGStarwars]

Chris sonofPear I want to go find the exact quote and book (I believe its crucible) but basically Luke stated “there is only the force”. When he speaks of the light and dark side. The force isn’t grey nor is there a grey area. It’s how you use it good -light, bad-dark.

[@Poppadop1]

+Aivottaja _"Luke - having studied the numerous failures born from the Jedi Order - beginning a new school of Jedi without their dogmatic and passive MO."_ Define "grey." Neither Legends nor Disney Luke advocate using both light and dark, selfless and selfish. Both are firmly light and selfless. At best, Luke is "grey" because he changed some conventions from the Old Jedi Order, such as the restriction on marriage and children. +Alorha Baga _"The force isn’t grey nor is there a grey area. It’s how you use it good -light, bad-dark."_ Agreed. Light is being selfless, dark is being selfish, and grey will either become one of the previous two or remain in apathy. "Statement: Apathy is death." However, the will of the Force definitely sides selfless. Only "light siders" can make peaceful Force ghosts, "dark siders'" imitation ghosts are always in a tormented, undying death state, "dark siders" go to the Chaos or Hell region of the Netherworld of the Force, and the Force creates Anakin to destroy the Sith after Darth Plagueis uses Midi-Chlorian Manipulation. Disney Star Wars takes this one step further by totally removing Sith Force spirits; only Jedi can manifest after death now.

[@proud_proletarian8130]

Mr. Stewart, you have hit on something here. Progressive-Technocrats (the political philosophy of what we call "Progressives" in the West) is an "end's justifies the means" philosophical mindset. Therefore, a person like Kathleen Kennedy is going to want a movie that proselytizes her world view. Since her world view is essentially what George Lucas used as the template for the Sith, there is a problem. Kathleen Kennedy's Star Wars is--not intentionally--a propaganda piece for Progressivism (the political movement) and thus by its very nature is nihilistic. So the "good guys (or gals in this case)" are in fact using the ideology of the Sith (a Luciferian doctrine of "do your own thing/Do as thou wilt") and the bad guys represent Order (they're even called the First Order). This type of story-model being used is anathema to the established storyline/mythos of Star Wars which comes from the moral template of the Hero of a 1000-faces. That template is not a subjective one, it is a template that is supposed to instill morality and so people with no morality cannot craft a yarn from it and thus they fail as with all the Disney Star Wars movies.

[@transformersloverjon]

Proud_Proletarian Step 1: Redefine terms. Step 2: Misrepresent philosophy. Step 3: Aggrandize theology. Step 4: Conservative utopia.

[@transformersloverjon]

Do you know what existentialism is?

[@proud_proletarian8130]

Not sure what your steps are alluding to, but if you think my post is redefining Progressivism, you best think again. The history of the movement is crystal clear and it is a history of elitism, eugenics, racism, and Technocratic tyranny. It is illiberal by its very nature: press.princeton.edu/titles/10572.html I am fully aware of, and reject the concept of, existentialism, since--as Sartre once stated--it stems from the flawed idea that atheism is true. Nietzsche's contribution to the concept only added to the false idea that man creates his own morals from the power of the will. The Soviet Union, Nationalist Socialist Workers Party of Germany, Communist Chinese, and other humanist movements proved that to be false in the 20th century. Our moral laws do not come from the power of the will, they come from trial and error over a long history of societies that created them. The culmination of those laws is found in the Torah, which is why that book matters so much. It is the zenith of moral law that stems from the early Akkadian culture all the way though to the foundation of the Israelite Kingdom which became part of the foundation of Western society. The other half--which was also influenced by the moral laws of the cultures prior to it--is the Greco-Roman virtues and vices. The combination of the two came into being when the Roman Catholic church was formed and the virtues of Rome and the morals of Torah were combined. These morals can be traced back to the Code of Hammurabi, the Law of Eshunna, the Law of King Nammu of Ur, the Laws of Ma'at of Egypt, Sargon of Akkad (the real one), etc. The concept of "Do as thou wilt" is diametrically opposed to that moral law and the virtues of classical Western culture. It was Helena Blavatsky who popularized the concept of "do as thou wilt" in the 19th and early 20th centuries and the degradation of Western culture has been the result as the Disney Star Wars illustrates perfectly.

[@Kit5une131313]

Just for the record, Nietzsche concluded that, once we have found out that there is no God, and, as a corollary, no absolute morality, nihilism would follow. But he did not mean this as a triumph (hence his framing as "God his dead"), he was deeply disturbed by it. Since simply to pretend that there would be a God was out of the question for him, he plunged into complete atheism. Essentially his later works and philosophies were an attempt to find a way to live with it. However, this all seems not to have very much to do with Hollywood. After all, films of today, Star Wars included, seem not to lack morality, but are on the contrary loaded with it. It always against opression, against slavery, against racism, against misogyny, against exploitation of the poor, in other words, a leftist SJW kind of morality that keeeps on repeating itself endlessly, only getting more bitter and grim over time.

[@MeFlyingPenguin]

I think you've got it. I've said this exact same thing since I saw the movie last week. I detest the postmodernist ideology and I hate to see it creep into something as morally valuable as star wars. Thank you for putting this out there.

[@DR3ADER1]

Star Wars is just a shitty knock-off of Akira Kurosawa's works. It is NOT "morally valuable" in any capacity or strength of the word. It's just a film, like anything that the Film Industry makes.

[@DMIwriter]

13:05 Even when they say you shouldn't apply standards, in that very moment they are applying a standard as to what is appropriate behavior. The standard is to not apply standards. Once again, their logic eats itself.

[@tamerofhorses2200]

Nietzsche wasn't really a nihilist though, his was an advocation towards a personal formation of morals and an opposition to universality of moral systems. Not really an advocation of nihilism If you look at It closely.

[@DVSPress]

+Manguch Beg I didn't say he was

[@captaingrub2228]

I agree, but I gotta tell ya Nietzsche is indeed the patron saint of academic postmodernists. Still I get your point that forming a new ethic is hardly nihilistic. One person's rebellion is another person's new ethics. Funny how for all of our posturing and rebellion the same old bullshit prevails (to the extent that one can get behind Rey in Star Wars it's because she's so pretty - wow that's so iconoclastic). Try making her dumpy , that would actually be rebellious.

[@jarukgema6060]

"Morality is subjective" is, ironically, an objective statement, one that many people love to _preach_ and _convert_ people to.

[@tamerofhorses2200]

Why is it ironic ? The statement doesn't profess that objectivity in itself is wrong or false, but rather that morality is subjective.

[@jarukgema6060]

One could argue that "morality is subjective" is itself a moral statement in the same sense that "politics is useless" is a political statement, even though the statement is about politics itself. In that case, the statement, "morality is subjective" is self-contradicting and is merely a philosophical absurdity. But lets leave that aside for now. The main argument against religious claims is that they cannot be scientifically or empirically verified. Hence, religious people have no right to _preach_ their doctrines as being objectively true. But the statement "morality is subjective" also falls into this category. It cannot be scientifically or empirically verified. Yet, the people who believe it preach it as an objective reality.

[@OptimusNiaa]

I minored in philosophy in undergrad, took several philosophy classes in grad school, read philosophy on my own, and have taught philosophy classes (ethics in particular) at the undergrad level as an adjunct instructor for several years. I'm also a Star Wars fan, and enjoy the Prequels more than the OT (though the OT is what I grew up with) because, like you, I see them as having even more meaning than the OT. Here's the point: I believe you knocked it out of the park, sir. Excellent analysis. I mean, as you say, the specific idea that Hollywood stories are being impacted by writers being nihilists is just a theory. We don't have the information needed to prove it. But it does fit with the available facts. And man, it sure is nice to hear someone talk about deontology vs consequentialism in the context of Star Wars and correctly, I believe, noting how those approaches are exemplified by the Jedi and Sith. Liked and subscribed.

[@ultimabk]

There is less than 30 rebels left that made it to crait. More are dying while they make their last stand. The situation is dire, then the Millennium Falcon shows up and rey exclaims "Woohoo, i like this!"

[@HolyknightVader999]

My thoughts? It's clear that Disney doesn't give a fuck. I already sensed that with the Marvel movies being quite literally video game cutscenes, but I thought they were gonna handle Star Wars in similar fashion to the Original Trilogy with a feminist twist. I never expected them to go so far as to rape Luke Skywalker's character or make such a blatant Mary Sue. Nor did I expect them to kill their own main villain this early in the game. Such bad storytelling is so stunning it requires its own category of shame. Not even Jar Jar Binks can destroy the OT's legacy as fast as this film did. Well, any and all justifications the Disney fans had for smashing the old Star Wars Expanded Universe into pieces is now null and void. They complained that the EU undid the OT's ending, but the new canon did so as well. They complained that the old EU had Mary Sues up the wazoo, well, the new face of Disney Star Wars is a feminist Mary Sue with even less reasons for her overpowered abilities, because at least Revan was a former Sith Lord and Starkiller had to be trained by Darth Vader. The only difference, aside from good character development and NOT DESTROYING THE JEDI AGAIN, is that they undid the ending of the OT in style. I'd rather have Palpatine come back and chew the scenery or have a massive alien invasion rather than Luke betray everything he fought for and become a coward.

[@arichutfles]

PREACH!

[@bruno78392]

Don't talk shit about marvel movies, their level of story telling is levels above any new star wars movie

[@HolyknightVader999]

honkkong97 chen No they're not. They're the same slop.

[@Avarn388]

I cannot say I agree with you on the Marvel movies. For me, they are still very good movies, in spite of their flaws. But as for Star Wars, yes. And I say this as someone who liked TLJ, but knows it is a piss poor sequel to The Force Awakens and encompasses all the BS signaling LucasFIlm wants to put forward. The old EU had issues and I won't lie; post ROTJ I saw as a mixed bag. But upon rereading a lot of it, I found myself liking it more. Jania Solo is what Rey SHOULD have been. She was fleshed out and very much was her own character. And the Sword of the Jedi trilogy was awesome. The Last Jedi much as I like Rey and Kylo, they will never be as good as Jania and Jacen Solo. LucasFilm just hit the reset button for the ST for the sake of nostalgia and screwing over the OT. People tell me that this trilogy is about the new generation. And I can see that. But they assume that concept is mutually exclusive to the OT characters. When it isn't. You can have both. And really, given the lack of planning LF has showcased with these movies; I really have no interest in their NC or SWs films. I will always see them as an alternative timeline with Legends being how the way things turned out.

[@ChristianFrates1997]

You predicted The Rise of Skywalker.

[@seandetente1817]

Dude, you’re like a Stefan Molyneux without the rants and read-too-much-into-everything nonsense and the loner arrogance that comes with it. Guess I found a new channel to binge watch.

[@awkwardsaxon9418]

Sean Detente I love a lot of what stefan is doing but he takes himself so fucking seriously that it gets cringy sometimes lol

[@Tempusverum]

Same. The man is knowledgeable, but also a bit arrogant and occasionally condescending to his callers.

[@Julius064]

but he's the greatest philosopher since Plato ! /s

[@zeusssonfire]

Absolutely blown away. You've so eloquently developed some themes and ideas I've been struggling with over the last year. Looking forward to your follow up to this video and digging into your other content and writing. Keep up the great work!

[@whitewolf1298]

The Lost Jedi is like modern painting; it is a total declaration of war against God's creation. The first movie portrayed the Jedi as being pretty much like the knights of Christendom, a loosely organized band of warriors who went about rescuing damsels in distress and recovering stolen lunch money. In ESB, the Jedi are transformed into Zen Buddhists. In the Phantom Movie, the Jedi become essentially a bunch of bureaucrats running parallel to the government of the Republic. Then, in The Farce Awakens, the entire Jedi code is undermined. Now, in Lost Jedi, it is flipped on its head. It is like that kid on the beach who builds an amazing sand castle just so he can enjoy destroying it.

[@BeukendaalMason]

Well the Jedi follow the code of "There is no emotion, only peace. There is no ignorance, only knowledge. There is no passion, only serenity. There is no chaos, only harmony. There is no death, only the Force.". The best way to explain the Force, is that which flows through, guides, and affects all things. To control the Force is to be able to control everything...

[@Yusuf1187]

Even in A New Hope, the Jedi were conveyed as being a combination of a Christian knightly order and Buddhists. The emphasis on the universal life Force like chi, calming the mind as the central focus of progress and development, they have no central authority/leader/deity, etc are clearly and most directly Buddhist influences. ESB just emphasized all this even more. But the concept of them being an order of warriors who function in conjunction with governments to enforce their rules is definitely a historically Christian quality drawing from groups like the Templars and Teutonic order.

[@willnitschke]

Agree except for the bureaucrat part is rather harsh and over stated. Religions do come into interaction with politics. It would have been cartoonish not for the Jedi to intervene in trying to save the Republic, although they acted too late. (Which is also realistic.)

[@AnAngelineer]

Pretty brilliant post, I just think that the transition towards Buddhism isn't as abrupt as you say. Sure, Yoda definitely has Buddhist elements, but the christian myths of the brave knights who seek harmony with a greater power that has a will on its own remains fairly strong through the original trilogy, and there is even a little bit of that in the dreaded prequels. It's during the prequels that the Force started evolving towards only being a superpower for the heroes to wield, losing all meaning as a moral or spiritual guide. This transition is now fully finished in the newer films, removing all connections to morality or the idea of a conscious greater will which rules over it.

[@bearlyrandom4462]

Have to disagree with you, the jedi have always been space samurai.

[@atholkay4172]

I think when you spend 4 Billion dollars on a franchise, the "greater good" becomes finding a way to extract a minimum of 4 Billion dollars from movies, toys, books and theme parks in order to break even. Or if nothing else, it's a major influence on the process in the writing room.

[@HolyknightVader999]

That doesn't mean you take the characters and totally ruin them, only to replace them with Mary Sues. What was wrong with just having the OT cast gather together and shoot the shift and have some fun? If money was all they're after, they could have just not fucked over the main cast so you can make more money off of Mark Hamill over the span of six movies with him training new Jedi. Yoda had at least 5 movies where he was a main character or at least a side presence. Why not Luke, especially since Luke was the main character for the first three movies? Wouldn't it be nice for him to play a master role instead of a cranky old fart?

[@Yerflua]

Fair enough, Athol, but if marketing ultimately has the final say on what gets to the screen, then how the hell did Luke as nihilist make it to the screen? For example, if you think about it, making Luke an amnesiac at the start of Last Jedi would have achieved *precisely the same plot function* and would not have alienated a massive swathe of the intended audience, i.e. anyone who'd been watching the films since '77 and had been given a good idea of who Luke was and where he was going from the last movie?

[@HolyknightVader999]

+Yerflua Better yet, just have Luke be looking for a superweapon or an ancient Jedi artifact that could one-hit-kill Snoke. And then have Rey be trained by Luke from the start, which would explain her powers in EPVII. That way, we can explain his disappearance.

[@arichutfles]

Yes. The sequel trilogy should have been about rebuilding the Jedi order and stopping the first order from destroying it again. Not clumsily retreading the OT.

[@Aivottaja]

But somehow George Lucas managed to do both; get rich and still stay true to his own vision for six movies. Disney doesn't seem to be able to do this. Wonder why that is. They have many times over the resources Lucas had.

[@vladimirbraun4957]

Not supporting products you don't approve of looks like a proper way of going about it. Milton Friedman used to say that in the free market every cent is a vote, and consumers determine who is successful by buying from the best. For that reason I chose not to see this movie in theaters. As for the post-modernist/nihilist argument, I'd say it's fairly accurate, except that it stops at the accidental part of the phenomenon. If you look a bit deeper into the dynamics of the cold war, the developments in European academy in the last century (particularly concerning the school of Frankfurt and the french post-modernists) you'll find that there is a body of work dating almost a hundred years back, connected with even older literature, explicitly aimed at weaponizing culture for political goals. It spilled over to America during the 30s and is at the core of the current state of academia. As far as its nihilist influence went in the US, I'd recommend a read on the works of one Richard Rorty. At the heart of it all lies not only a denial of morality, but of reality itself, and a radical affirmation of subjectivity and voluntarism. Not all of it is a byproduct of societal changes, there's also lots of deliberate efforts factoring in to produce this result.

[@vladimirbraun4957]

If you take into consideration the fact that the intellectual figures developing these works for over a hundred years now share the distinction of supporting and being apologists for the socialist ideology and regimes that gave the world things like the gulag system, it's already happening. There's no way around it - you can play the David Irving card of denying the consequences of your ideology or play the Eric Hobsbawm card and admit that you are for mass murder in favor of "the revolution". The absolutism you are refering to didn't make the XX century the bloodiest in history. Socialist political persecution and mass killing did.

[@reservationsrentashare7102]

Same here

[@vagrantoner]

Is it the Jews? I bet it's the Jews.

[@vladimirbraun4957]

vagrantoner Last time I checked stupidity wasn't contained in a single population. It's a universal thing.

[@theawecabinet]

"..At the heart of it all lies not only a denial of morality, but of reality itself, and a radical affirmation of subjectivity and voluntarism....." What do you mean by voluntarism? Because the SJW/ PC/ feminist agenda seems to be all about coercion under the banner of 'social justice'. I agree that the 'it's pandering to the market' excuse does not really wash. Sure, it is a factor, but the messages being promoted in movies like SW or TC shows like doctor who are not pandering to anyone, they are deliberate culture creation (social engineering, predictive programming etc). It's been going on for 2000 years. Popular entertainments are used to 'update' the population and keep everyone on the same page as to what is PC and what is wrongthink. Ecample: Since the 2000's pop music aimed at girls started promoting militarism for women. Every pop idol was dressed in fatigues and holding machine guns and making military life look sexy and empowering. As the girls who grew up with this all came of age, suddenly the military started to accept women for front line roles. Millions of 18 year old women were already conveniently primed for just this career choice. ...... kind of like when the military scripted Top Gun (all admitted) and then put recruitment booths in the cinema foyers when it was first released. This boosted recruitment by about 600% after the Vietnam war made the military an unpopular career choice. It's all a puppet show. They show. We copy. The only worth in it now is analysing these shows and movies to see what is currently being promoted.

[@BigTArmada]

What are you talking about? Hypocrisy is a perfectly valid feminist value

[@177SCmaro]

BigTArmada True, feminism is born out of Marxism, which takes many of its moral cues from relativism and nihilism, hence the frequent hypocracy and internal conflicts/self-contradictioms of feminism. Ideologies like feminism, Marxism, nihilism, relativism, at the end of the day are not really sophistry, that's just how they are used, in the end they are anti-philosophy - they destroy man's capacity to use reason to defend himself by the setting of standards. Fundimentally, they merely tools that are used to extract resources by force from others, to live at the expense of another.

[@cypherpunk7675]

People also tend to confuse cynicism with nihilism. Case in point: Rick Sanchez from Rick and Morty, who is often called a nihilist, when really he's just an extreme cynic/pessimist. The only nihilist thing he ever says is when he talks about the size of the multiverse and how everything is insignificant compared to its vastness, but really that's just him pretending not to care because that's how he copes with his failed relationships, particularly the one with his family.

[@reybladen3068]

Star Wars has always been a good vs evil kind of story, deconstructing that is pretty inconsistent to me.

[@jssandler]

What's odd is that movie writing was by and large white good and original in the 80's and 90's. Virtually every movie was an original. Die Hard, Superman I and II, Star Wars, Terminator, Alien, etc, etc. Even the more B movies like Running Man, we're still "cool" for their sheer originality. I think what continues to drag 21st century movies into an abyss is that people are writing from a visual effects perspective. Dialogue and character development takes a back seat to rendering things on computers. Hero movies have become about the Hero's powers (electricity and flashes!) instead of about the human behind the hero. Superman I and II was a coming of age story about a human being who just so happened to be able to fly and was indestructible to boot. What happens if we give a human those powers? Well, he still calls in love and tries to be a good reporter. Oh yeah, and he also can pick up a helicopter with one hand. Anyhow... we're overly enamored by computer effects.

[@ryankomitor7391]

Vulpeculae I agree. To add to this, I think one of the problems is that Hollywood in part is scared of trying new things but in addition, audiences around 15 years ago (basically post 9/11) sought comfort. They sought the familiar, because now the world was so turned on its head from the idealism of the late 90's that they were unable to cope with intellectually challenging material because the "real world" was trouble enough. With that, one could argue that audiences became nihilistic because they simply ceased to care about whether the writing was strong or the characters were well conceived, just so long as they were given the familiar from a "better" time. And we've failed to move on from that.

[@nbgaf1040]

Thats why I like the original character of superman. He was just a man raised on earth with his friends and family that had incredible power. He could've been selfish, used it to take over the world- but he didn't. Not because he's intrinsicly good, but because the Kent's taught him right and wrong and he was not a psychopath.Sure he could do incredible things but the reason he even did them, was because he had enough love for his fellow man that he couldn't stand by and NOT do something. Some of the best superman stories are when they take his powers away. He will still jump in front of somebody and take a bullet for them even if it kills him.

[@-cosmicrogue-]

Vulpeculae 1000% agree.

[@gaslighthotel]

Thank you thank you thank you! I especially love this: "if you have a movie that requires an understanding of right and wrong, what you end up doing is imitating the moments you saw before thinking that whats communicating this right and wrong idea that you're incapable of understanding..." OH.MY.GOD. That is EXACTLY what I was experiencing when I left the theatre after watching "Into Darkness." I saw Wrath of Khan when it came out and remember being completely blown away by all the subtleties and morality implicit in the story, from the references to (one of my favorite books) A Tale of Two Cities to the dynamics of a deep friendship. To see Abrams take all of that, write it out on pieces of paper, shake them up in a mixer, and then pull out random elements that he then glue together by his own arrogance truly violated my sense of morality. Others were just disappointed, I felt as if Id been used. And it wasnt because I was being all "Fan Girl" about Star Trek, something in me KNEW that what Id seen was a mockery of something more than just my fandom. But I couldnt put my finger on it. You just helped! I went into TFA thinking "well, Abrams said he was a bigger fan of SW than ST so maybe I should hope that he understands the source material better and give us a good story." But nope...did the exact same thing with the SW universe. I think you are correct, people like Abrams are sociopathic, completely unable to empathize with the rest of humanity. They are incomplete people and it shows in their 'creations.' Why do nihilists even bother creating if creation is something that has no meaning?

[@alexandrumoraras]

I think you are right, and going back to what The Last Jedi; and by the way I went in to see it a second time, and for me the only way I could see this movie is by not caring about anything in the SW universe. I knew what to expect, so I shut myself from feeling anything while watching this movie and also ignore anything that came before it. And yes with that in mind I could see it. I could enjoy the beautiful scenery and action pieces and... that's about it, that's about all what the movie has to offer. Now I think back and I realize I wasted 2.5h of my life to see ''nothing''. I am a SW fan and we didn't need an experiment like this in the SW franchise.

[@reservationsrentashare7102]

Its not an experiment. Its here to stay. You watched it twice. That speaks for itself.

[@alexandrumoraras]

Reservations Rentashare Its a SW movie of course I will give it a second chance. That doesn't mean its good.

[@jackmayor3574]

"It's a SW movie of course I will give it a second chance" And this is why Disney can do literally anything with this franchise without any consequences.

[@alexandrumoraras]

jack mayor jack mayor first, they can still do whatever they want because it’s theirs and because It doesn’t have to make 2 billions to be successful. Second, If I gave it a second chance its because I liked TFA despite being Ep 4, rip off, and Rogue One. I, like many other people, wanted to see if I was really wrong about this movie, that’s why the second chance. If this was any other franchise I wouldn’t give a sh***.

[@sursurrus]

David - great summary of issues I've been thinking of for a long time. I think the forces of cultural Marxism have taken over Hollywood. Your mention of 'multiculturalism' was spot on, and the examples of both classroom instruction and the decline of parenting are part of the agenda to deprive us of any meaningful sense of identity. Using Disney Star Wars as an example, the writers and directors weren't picked for ability, but rather politics - specifically the embrace of woke SJW far left politics, which are one of the main pillars of cultural Marxism. You're onto something with the parallels between nihilists and sociopaths that clarified my own thoughts. Sociopaths exist outside the normal human experience - they have no innate sense for, eg, right and wrong, or why murder is bad. In my own experience, functional sociopaths spend a great deal of mental effort to 'fit in' - they memorize elaborate sets of rules for how to navigate daily life, but constantly run into problems when dealing with other people's emotions. In my opinion, woke SJW politics are merely a rule-set that nihilists like Rian Johnson and the Disney Star Wars writers have adopted in order to further their careers. They don't inherently believe in, eg, fighting injustice or turning away from evil to embrace good - because as you said, nihilists believe in nothing. This is exactly why their story writing is so weak. Great characters come from within the writer - an assimilation of beliefs and life experiences. All the Disney SW characters are weak shells, defined by their job or role and not by their moral compass or feelings. Everybody's talked Rey to death, but I like to use Finn as an example from The Force Awakens. They wrote him an outer shell of non-violence and 'good' - so shaken by seeing his fellow soldiers die and by being ordered to kill innocent people that he turns away from the Empire. Yet a few moments later he's gleefully blasting away at his former comrades with the TIE fighters' cannons. He slaughters dozens of Imperials throughout the trilogy without a second thought! THIS is how the nihilist phonies masquerading as screenwriters view people who've taken a stand for good - as mindless, robotic zealots who adopt a philosophy and flip their worldview on a moment's notice. This is why they don't understand the point of the original star wars! Even a weak writer who had some sort of moral compass could think of easy ways to make Finn more interesting... he could've frozen in combat while fleeing, or been physically sick afterwards. A good writer, of which Disney employs none, could've portrayed someone who wasn't interested in killing for either side, setting up scenes where he jeopardized the mission by refusing to kill stormtroopers and eventually left the Rebels due to his deep antipathy to violence.

[@traykunable]

13:06 "When you say you shouldn't judge other people, they're saying don't apply standards". Quote of the year. 👍👍

[@SeanPeterson7]

The Big Lebowski is a good example of postmodern movie, where the only real value is personal freedom (embodied in The Dude) and reflects the antithesis to absolute, universal frameworks of meanings, such as divine order/purpose (a pillar of monotheism) or destiny (i.e. taoism).

[@Rantsnrambles808]

I was actually about to ask you about the subjective art argument. Its always irritating because im like why are you even here on a review then? Is ketchup milk not gross because 1 guy out there likes it?

[@davidmacleod5753]

rants n' rambles hahaha ketchup milk, i love it. The last jedi is the ketchup milk of the star wars franchise

[@buu678]

ketchup milk from walrus tits lol.

[@Rantsnrambles808]

for real though...every review some dick head is in the comments like "thats your opinion" im just like no shit its his review!

[@Yusuf1187]

I think art can be distinguished this way: If it wasn't in an art gallery and it was just something you saw lying on the ground, would you consider it art or just think of it as garbage?

[@Mike739107]

Ur TheDuke The Power of the Crow!

[@Imlaor25]

I love how you went from a critique of TLJ, to a critique of Hollywood, and then todays society and named why our society is so nihilistic. You said so many things I have thought about all those issues.

[@mstash5]

I am new to your channel and am very impressed by this critique and cultural overview. In desperate need of more like you and the type of person who would subscribe to this channel. Your insight and wisdom is appreciated.

[@rnttnzr774]

Your overall awareness of the subversive nature of modern “pop”-thought is absolutely intriguing. Would that I had colleagues as informed.

[@Shroomzee]

I disagree that Nihilism is an "inability" to comprehend morality. The way you describe it kind of makes it sound like some genetic defect or like a physiological brain disorder. I'd say it is just a belief system, such as any other... people can get "trapped" in it, or grow from it. To me, bad Nihilism (what you refer to here i think) is the transitional stage from the belief that traditional moral values objectively come from God, and the realization that all value, and meaning, is functionally a creation of finite human brains. I think we still subconsciously operate in the world as if we have souls. If you are an eternal soul just passing through as John Smith for 90 years, and God doesn't give you morality, then really nothing is guiding your actions. You can do literally anything as if you're in a video game, and the consequences aren't there. There is no real intellectually viable afterlife theory, only hypotheses. A bad nihilist removes God from morality, but hasn't dealt with the concept of their soul or Self yet. A good nihilist is someone who doesn't stop at moral nihilism, but grows from that, applies that same principle of "God deletion" to every aspect of existence. Inevitably the final outcome is that you are the master of your own meaning, subjective meaning your brain creates IS objective meaning, and it is your responsibility to create it. Otherwise you stick yourself in a world with no meaning, and actually assert that it is your desire and your own will to deliberately exist in a purposeless kinda limbo.

[@FiddlerBoy83]

Traditional moral values come from tradition (family/religion/society). [Cue "Fiddler on the Roof" earworm] Religion, in that it is (even if Divine Revelation exists) apprehended, transmitted, and practiced by humans, is a function of human cognition. Human cognition is subjective. Subjective beings are (likely) incapable of comprehending objective Reality. Yet the validity of morality - and here i'm talking things like "don't steal, don't kill, don't commit false witness" - is borne out by our experience of moral consequence. It can exist independently of God-concept, and while not precisely objective, things on which collective subjectivity generally coincides can be more reliable than individual subjectivity. God has too often been used as a justification for stealing, killing, etc. Maybe it's a good thing if God is dead. Maybe we don't need an afterlife carrot/stick to motivate us to act morally. Maybe we could just start with "All things therefore whatsoever ye would that men should do unto you, even so do ye also unto them: for this is the law and the prophets." Slightly offtopic, but related: What if we were to, rather than thinking of the Three Wise Men (see Matthew's gospel) as literal visitors to an infant Christ, interpret them as avatars for three Asian wisdom traditions, all (thanks to trade routes between Rome and the far east) likely available in the Levant around "year zero." What if Jesus were, in addition to Judaic tradition, aware of Daoism and Buddhism as well? All that said, the socially constructed nature of language is a compelling argument for our *experiences* of Reality, which are mediated by language, being constructed.

[@chrissonofpear3657]

If the revelation method had been kept more consistent, or not guarded by ringfencing of ideas, stability might have lasted a bit longer. Saying Yes to the Abyss was a partial answer Nietzsche developed, of finding reason to go onward.

[@evilallensmithee]

The original Star Wars was the antidote to depressing amoral nihilist stories of the 70s

[@phantomluts]

Dude subbed - I LOVE your analysis. You're so spot on about the nihilism

[@transformersloverjon]

It's funny how you people watch one Jordan Peterson video and decide you're experts in philosophy. You know nothing about nihilism and neither does the guy in the video. "Argue semantics in the comments." That's just him attempting to discredit any criticisms of his misuse of these terms.

[@thesithempire1348]

What a breath of fresh air to hear such a well-thought out discussion of these subjects! Great job, David!

[@travislawrencemusic]

The 1st Order has the moral directive in their name "order", i.e. rule of law under a sanctioned leviathan to employ violence to outlaws. It is the rebellion that is fighting for nihilistic subjectivism in TLJ, and they repeatedly lose under their feminist leadership. I think Johnson may be promoting an anti-SJW message here, while also criticizing fascist ideology as well. Both are failed systems fighting each other, and it seems to me that the primary theme of TLJ is "learning through failure". And Johnson highlights the "true enemy" that always literally profits no matter which side wins or loses, hence he has an anti-elitist and anti-industrial-military-complex message that is very clearly stated. Also, I think Rey's "mirror" vision may be directing us to look to ourselves for the problem and likewise the solution. Be the change because the enemy is u!

[@otomicans6580]

I dunno Churn. I think it's something far more simple that Johnson is trying to say... Men who behave badly (Poe, Luke, Finn) should defer to the judgement of their benevolent female superiors (Holdo, Rey, Rose). Trust them more, argue with them less. Female authority of the Alliance good, white male authority of the First Order bad.

[@travislawrencemusic]

Otomic Ans: yeah, that theme seems fairly obvious, but look at the outcomes of those ideologies: failure. Maybe the lesson is balance. Let's not be fascist white men, but also let's not pretend female leadership solves everything. Also, if u want to go the race route, u could say it was mostly non-white men that was humbled by women, but it was white men on both side that humbled them all (Kylo/Luke), but success still was not an outcome for anyone (unless u count the escape of the few remianing rebels a success?). This film seems to address SJW Culture vs White Fascism and shows that both r failed systems and the only winners r the weapons dealers supplying them both (the rich as the real problem). I think this film was a mirror to our culture as it is, not really solving the problem for us but showing us that it is indeed a problem. At least, that's what I see as a subtext.

[@aleatoriac7356]

Churn Blanston You see what I see too. Well spotted.

[@fafikommander1903]

Nietzsche was an enemy against nihilism, he tried to avoid it. He was a big critic of the people, who are nowheredays called Post modernists

[@Fictitious199X]

Well said. I've been thinking the same thing recently about writing. Also it explains why writing I consider to be extremely bad can be viewed by others to be very good, as if we were watching two different things.

[@evilsdemise1287]

I loved this video. What you explained is something that I have felt for a long time now but was never able to explain to anyone. My vocabulary isn't as eloquent as yours. Thank you for putting into words what I've felt for years now. Its good to know that I'm not just imagining things. Always enjoy your videos. Always excellent quality.

[@NotOrdinaryInGames]

Joss Whedon used to be cool when he made Firefly. And Serenity had characters with strong beliefs who fought for them.

[@AugustoMazzoli]

Excellent video. It's good to see that I'm not the only one who came to the same or similar conclusions about the subject, while so many people just don't get it.

[@Jared_Wignall]

Star Wars has gone down the path of the Dark Side. Lucas should’ve made a clause that said he’d have input on the story as a consultant as well as being the story author. At least then we’d have something new and original instead of this soft reboot we have now. What made Star Wars, Star Wars is now gone. Star Wars is space opera. It doesn’t seem that people get that, though i believe this applies to those who make these new films at least. Aside from the space opera aspect, there are various Western Culture values in Star Wars as well as Eastern Culture, and the films would reflect a bit into what was happening in society, yet with Western Culture gone down the path it’s gone, so has Star Wars, but to the worst end of the culture. Good video David. Good points as always.

[@IsoSubject5]

Jared Wignall I don't think that George Lucas even cared when he sold it to them, he was just fed up with the prequel-hate-bandwagon. And now the people in charge are wearing "Force is female" shirts. What a time to be alive /s

[@NeonDarkShadow]

Could not have said this better, and I've been trying. Just the title of this video was enough for me to subscribe. Keep up the excellent work, brother!

[@wtk6069]

Deconstruction is overdone these days, but it can still be done well. The problem with Disney Star Wars is simple. They don't understand the thing they're deconstructing. That's an alarming and fatal flaw.

[@heathbar74]

Man, I really love your commentary. If anything good came out of this movie, it was me finding you, and you forcing me to a higher standard. Many thanks.

[@mittageisen211]

Great video. You basically articulated what i was trying to express to my friend the other day in regards to contemporary music. The main topic of the conversation was that music of today feels emotionless with little or no innovation in the medium. I think the people who create music now suffer from some level of nihilism, which is also tied to the post-modernist/ neo marxist culture we live in today.

[@michaelstrickland9736]

Thank you for spelling out the simple truth about nihilism, which leads to moral suicide, and in many cases, intellectual suicide as well.

[@austinmonteavaro1268]

Nietzsche wasn't a nihilist. The sooner this dies the sooner post modernism does.

[@chrissonofpear3657]

He tried to go beyond that.

[@bigben7943]

Brilliant commentary. Really wished I had found your channel years ago. You've earned a fan. Will be sharing much as I can.

[@andmicbro1]

This does make a lot of sense, I've been trying to figure out why Hollywood can fail so spectacularly with these major franchises that seem hard to get wrong. Like Star Wars, or Superman, Batman, and the Justice League, how do you mess those up? I mean you can make a kind of "meh" story, or have bad acting, or bad writing, but to fundamentally fail at delivering anything resembling the original characters at all, and subverting their moral values, while delivering a story that is confused, convoluted, and in the end has no message other that the one bashed over your head with some very obvious one liners. I was watching the Moviebob "Really that Bad" series on Batman v Superman, and at one point he makes the observation that Zach Snyder said: "I had a buddy who tried getting me into normal comic books, but I was all like, No one is having sex or killing each other. This isn't really doing it for me. I was a little broken, that way. So when Watchmen came along, I was, This is more my scene." And suddenly that big fat mess that was Man of Steel, and Batman v Superman, and by some extension Justice League, start to make sense. You have a guy who doesn't understand the characters writing about love, hope, truth, justice, and good old fashioned superheroes, but fundamentally doesn't get them. And instead he is idolizing a graphic novel that satirizes and parodies the very concept of super heroes to begin with. No wonder the DC movies are so bleak. I can't quite fully understand where Star Wars is coming from, other than it's coming from JJ Abrams, who I've decided should not direct any more franchises after ruing both Star Trek and Star Wars. And then the mind of Rian Johnson who decided to throw out everything JJ made and do his own movie. Whatever the case though, it's clear they are trying to deconstruct Star Wars, just like everybody in Hollywood likes to do these days. But that seems like the dumbest idea when you have the likes of WB and Disney who are banking on the fans showing to see a nostalgic reimagining of their favorite characters. But hey, I'm not the guy signing off on that, so you can thank the Hollywood execs for making those calls.

[@themiracleisnow748]

I studied Post Modernism in college and wrote my thesis on it....the current, 'Post Modernists,' simply do not understand or they deny the tenants of the philosophy. Read Baudrillard's Similacra and Simulation. No where does he say that an objective reality does not exist. His perspective on Post Modernism is simply that limited tools for perceiving this reality (we can only see so far and in one direction at a time...things like that) makes it so that the perception of reality is like a layer atop objective reality that is constantly being, 'error corrected,' in human consciousness through creative measures. We perceive parts of reality and fill in the holes so to speak.......somehow that was turned into, "There is not reality."

[@davidwilson6758]

Most interesting take on modern pop culture I've heard to date.

[@johnmckelly6263]

I love you man. You're the biggest gem I've found on youtube in years... please continue!

[@scottpoet]

Money is naturally nihilistic. The last jedi was written by money for money. So I'm not arguing, but I think most of your speculation is unnecessary. Obviously postmodernism and feminism contribute as well, I'm just say I think the nihilism comes from a bunch of Disney suits sitting in a dark room filling in a paint by the numbers script. I do hope no one thinks I'm harping on capitalism, which concerns itself with actual value and not just useless bank notes.

[@suflanker45]

The ironic part of it is the Finn Rose story arc rants about how money and being rich are bad but Disney is feeding the millennials that line to get their money.

[@paulbwill64]

Ultimately, nihilism is a philosophy of convenience.

[@zakuiizaki4938]

My comment on Multiculturalism when trying to not conflict one value system with another value system which results in promoting no value system at all, instead rather put forward universal values to meet one another. There are commonalities, a weaving thread, going across cultures, values that are universal, and rootedly human. Just like Star Wars. Star Wars sadly 'was' rather then 'is' a modern cultural phenomena, a modern mythology, through the ageless human tradition of story-telling, myth-telling weaved something that regardless of where you're coming from, race, culture, religion etc, you can sit, listen and watch and take something away from. You're probably right, then Nihilists took over, or small minded people self-satisfyingly stuck in their own elevated pettiness brought star wars down to their level and made everything an issue. Which is unfortunate. Being optimistic however, in the Nihilists glee in burning or subverting everything, because they are smarter, allows people now, in our innate human need for mythos, to explore further by traveling to the past, to the Odyssey, to the Ramayana, to eastern and western classics. Perhaps it is time for star wars to end. This is coming from a 30 years fan. Now is the time to explore. Not to pander to the Nihilists or petty people in charge of media these days. They cant even present a good story nowdays. The fundamental flaw of TLJ is it is bad story-wise. It is time to explore. Outside the enclosure of hollywood. Humanity is rich in its mythologies. Its just sad how the mythology of star wars went.

[@jb00705]

So true. Nihilists should write horror and that's it!

[@radix133]

I wish I could say "The Last Jedi" wasn't idiotic. I've never hated a Star Wars movie before. The cast and the special effects were great, but the story stinks and the characters stink. The story has plot holes and MacGuffins a plenty and as for characters, well, there are several "Jar-Jars" in this movie who just weigh it down, and other characters who are simply wasted. But the real issue is that we no longer live in a heroic age that appreciates real heroes fighting for freedom. In this post-modern, deconstructionist age we live in, we aren't taught or allowed to love freedom or freedom fighters because freedom implies control of our own destinies which means free will, free speech, and free markets. Of course that is all counter to any modern narratives that saturate our society today. The Star Wars that came out forty years ago was a movie bursting with vision and genius from a man who drank deeply from mythology and timeless heroic epics. The guy who wrote "The Last Jedi" has obviously never read from Joseph Campbell or Mircea Eliade, and knows nothing about storytelling except the spineless, postmodernist drivel that is foisted on western society where true heroic attributes are "adversarial" and the only good people are perpetual victims. Just like the Resistance.

[@arichutfles]

Thank you so much for this! I went into Last Jedi naively expecting a good movie. I exited somewhat in shock. It took me a couple of hours to process what had just happened. As I started to untangle the bad plot, bad character motivations, and cringe inducing "humor," the phrase "that was so nihilistic" kept running through my head. Thank you for helping me to further crystalize my opinion.

[@evillaser4889]

he calms my soul

[@Magicpoppy]

Wow. I just realize that I have been going back and forth between nihilism (there is no good and evil) but each time I "bounched" back to my norms and values thinking there was something wrong with me....Thank you for giving me insight behind the definition😊

[@Fangornmmc]

I'm not sure I wholly agree with your take on (moral) nihilism. I have yet to encounter a good argument that there is some kind of universal morality. To me, it seems that the universe is wholly indifferent to our actions. Of course I agree that murder is wrong, but if I dig deep and try to investigate why it's wrong, I can't seem to escape the conclusion that I mostly believe it to be wrong because I was taught so. Had I been born a few decades earlier, I might've believed murder to be wrong because the bible says so, or if I'd been born in some other culture, I might've subscribed to whatever the dominant religion/culture is there and would derive my morality from that culture. I'm not entirely sure if you were suggesting that there is some kind of universal morality, but it seemed that way to me. If so, I'd greatly appreciate your explanation as to why you'd believe this to be the case. Now I realize this makes me sound nihilistic, which maybe I am (I don't know, to be honest, haven't entertained the thought much). I don't agree with your equating of sociopathy with nihilism though because well, frankly, I don't think I am a sociopath (or wouldn't like to think of myself as such at least). I care about people, ideas, cultures, artistic expression, etc. Just because I don't detect any evidence for universal morality doesn't mean I operate on that logic in my daily interactions.

[@antonionotmyrealnamo6333]

There are objective truths and there are best practices. Higher level moral systems are best practices in that societies that embrace them outperform those that don't in most, if not all, measurable ways. Additionally you're misunderstanding sociopathy. David is using it as an extreme example of a lens through which to view the world, he's not literally saying that people who say they aren't Christian (even if they evince a handful of social traits that were only able to be conceived of under a Christian or similar society) are actually Sociopaths.

[@Yerflua]

You might consider the work of guys like Edward Wilson, who wrote the book Consilience, around the epigenetic rules that govern our behaviour. As a simple introduction, the Westermarck Effect, which appears to be a biological, scientifically observed effect which holds that -- in general -- you will have a major inhibition about having sex with someone that you grew up with, i.e. there is an epigenetic rule that pushes us biologically away from incest. This can be seen as a universal moral law of a kind. It's also amusing because the Effect, again one that has been observed scientifically, overturns more than a century of psychosexual theory on how, per Freud, we all have a desire to have sex with our mothers which we overcome early in our lives, or else develop an Oedipal Complex. The Westermarck Effect debunks that entirely. Wilson speculates that our sense of aesthetics - our care for people, ideas, cultures, artistic expression, etc - may also be an epigenetic rule particular to our species. All of which emerges in turn from the Patient Zero of this debate: a faction among anthropologists who took up the postmodernist flag and declared there is no such thing as a universal human nature. As with postmodernism, science appears to be slowly disproving this assertion: there do appear to be things that are common to us all, that human beings tend to flourish under certain societal conditions a majority if not all the time, and founder under others. This is the beginning of a scientific argument for a universal morality.

[@johndeer7716]

>The Westermarck Effect debunks that entirely. Lets not get carried away. Ive seen enough girls with major Daddy complexes to know that there is something to what Freud thought.

[@Fangornmmc]

I am not sure what your point is here. As far as I know human history is rife with excessive violence. What's the point you're trying to make?

[@Fangornmmc]

I would challenge the statement of there being objective truths, but that's a whole different can of worms. Again, I should emphasize that it's not a functionable way to live, to think that there is no real morality and no real truth. I assume, like everyone else, the sun will rise again tomorrow and that gravity will continue to function as expected. I also don't have any plans of harming anyone else in anyway. However, my point is that I don't really see any evidence for common morality, let alone universal morality, which I think David was implying. Point taken about sociopathy being used as an extreme example though.

[@concordetconstabulary219]

Sir I have watched many many videos here on KZbin regarding nihilism and it’s effects on society and I have to say your arguments were very well thought out and are the most compelling. I salute your work.

[@dudester873]

Wow Your review of Hollywood's lack of an absolute moral compass was deeper than any element depicted in the Last Jedi.

[@calimarine92]

Even George Lucas didn't understand normal morality. That's why he was so confused over the "Han shot first" controversy. He literally could not understand the idea that Han could have shot first and still be a decent person, so he redid the scene even though it made no sense that Greedo could miss from that distance.

[@Brandon3739]

Star Wars: Rise Of The Red Army and The Soviet (wo)Man

[@GK-zg7vq]

These views about story telling are exactly what I have been feeling after watching TLJ ....but I could not put into words. This is great. Thank you.

[@GioAtero]

You crafted a truly valuable analysis. Good job!

[@willerwin3201]

This is a fascinating hypothesis and paradigm; it makes me look at both the movie and its oddly mismatched reception in a new way. Thank you for putting this up.

[@atmanbrahman1872]

Very good analysis.

[@literaryartist1]

I truely enjoy your content. I'm especially astounded at your gift of analysis. The way your absorb information and articulate it. I hope, KZbin doesn't ban the channel and/or, that you keep it growing. The quality of insightful information pertaining to story and the arts are gems that need to be in the world. Two Thumbs up. Also you should think of starting a critique service. I would definitely pay you to critique my manuscript-as soon as I polish it up a bit. This breakdown on Nihilism as well as the whole Thanos overpopulation fallacy that you addressed is phenomenal work.

[@DVSPress]

I'm currently blacklisted/shadowbanned, so please consider subbing to my story writing channel kzbin.info/door/PI7b65Ll3zz3wGWp0zbP-g

[@LetsPlayPC]

This is a great video. The excessive Nihilism is why I can't get into The Witcher video game series and why I'm getting increasingly turned off by so many popular TV series.

[@johnmcternan4157]

I have the Sopranos and The Wire sitting at me waiting me to be watched, yet I know I'll just grow weary of feeling I have to symathize with morally dubious people. I like the idea of Witcher as well, but I grew depressed/weary playing it well as well. I could go outside these days in the northern hemisphere and see these vistas. You know what video games haa grabbea me despite I never owned Nintendo before. Zelda: Breath of the Wild! an adventure, a hero trying to save a land primary colours, but some sunshine and a little darkness and it's the only thing I can consistently play.

[@otomicans6580]

I'm not sure if the Witcher can be thought of as nihilism. If I can think of a theme it's that war is tragic and always leaves innocents dead. Another theme is, like Tolkien, the slow death of the vibrant, mystical old world in favor of the calculated, efficient and brutal new world. Geralt is ironic because while he frequently dislikes bringing about the destruction of the old world, it's also his profession and, frequently, he is forced to kill in order to protect lives. The Sopranos is in a lot of ways a condemnation of materialism. While the show wouldn't be worth watching if the Jersey mafia wasn't interesting and sympathetic, it should be very clear that these are awful people. They're monsters. I think the drug dealers on the Wire are far more sympathetic though. These people are portrayed more as being a product of their culture, trapped in a never-ending cycle of drugs, violence and hopelessness.

[@vilecrocodile9171]

Try elder scrolls online. There's more choice and you can make your own character.

[@bjf9304]

I enjoyed the Wire, not so much the Sopranos. In the Wire there is good and bad, but people's personal ambitions, a bloated bureaucracy, and corruption often gets in the way.

[@Max_Kraft]

Geralt of Riva (The Witcher) is a typical Antihero. Antiheros are very individualistic but not nihilist. They don't want or cant swim with the fishes and do have a personal moral code or only care about they loved ones but are not interested in the political or economic issues or their times.

[@BinkyTheElf1]

Subjectivism is ultimately self refuting. What “There is no absolute truth” actually claims is “It is absolutely true that there is no absolute truth.” It’s a hidden truth-claim, usually made to avoid sounding arrogant, or “always right”, and Post Modernism has one good point: why is someone saying what they say? Blind trust is as bad as stubborn cynicism and doubt. Keep up the good work, and I do think the latest Star Wars offerings are all about undermining the franchise, and the older ideas of truth, good & evil, decisions & consequences, selfishness vs. Self-sacrifice.

[@nowlwane9623]

Ren is a terrible leader

[@Eldritchfan]

NIhilists do have a value: power. Whoever has the power can determine good and evil are a result of who has power, so power must always be given to the 'oppressed'

[@LightAndDarkMdness02]

Star Wars has always been very nihilistic to those who pay attention to the lore, etc. Just as Lucas said, the Star Wars galaxy is stuck in a cycle of war that keeps repeating over and over due to the Force. The Force wills the Sith and Jedi to kill each other to create 'balance' which inadvertently plunges the galaxy into war. Star Wars is the story of a galaxy that never changes and is constantly at war. Let me break it down for you~ Okay, in summary the Sith are Apollonian and are supposed to represent Order and stability, and I know what you're going to say, "Then why do they constantly destroy each other?" This is because of the most important and driving factor of the Star Wars universe: The Force. When George Lucas made Star Wars he wanted to introduce the concept of God and noted that it could be reduced to a single chromatic concept- An unknowable entity that manipulates causality. The Force has a will that gives everyone a destiny and by that definition could be considered the Star Wars Galaxy's God. Yet no one refers or worships the Force as such. To be strong in the Force is similar to having province from God. Compared to other mythologies, the Force is unique in that it never communicates directly to anyone. There is no Flaming Bush or physical manifestation of The Force. Every person in the Star Wars universe by their own volition must accept their destiny, but interpret the consequences. Even Anakin, the literal embodiment of Jesus Christ in Star Wars must make his own choices. There are two ways the Force can be used as a magical power, by suppressing the ego and emotions to be in tune with the Force, and use it as an ally, or by enforcing the Ego and Emotions to draw out the Force and use it as a tool. The manner in which the Jedi and Sith use the Force is the key to the puzzle. Being Apollonian, the Sith are individualists meant to be rigid and emotionless like a rock, but by drawing power from the Force for selfish gains they become dionysian, mad with power and emotional. This is called using the Dark side of the Force, which has been misunderstood to be a side of the Force when it's actually a side EFFECT of using the Force selfishly. Similarly, being dionysian the Jedi are supposed to be collectivists meant to be fluid and emotional, like a river, but by suppressing their ego to be in tune with the Force they become rigid and unable to change. The Jedi and Sith literally flip places with what they would represent in real life and become hollow to obtain power. This is how the repetitive cycle of the Sith vs Jedi came to be. In our world, according to Nietzsche, all higher civilization arose from those who impose their will, desired power, and prayed on the weak. This is known as Master Morality. Then, those who were oppressed by those in power created their own system of morality in opposition to power, and saw themselves as superior by not desiring power. This is Slave Morality. In dialectic terms, Master Morality can be considered the original thesis for morality and Slave Morality was formed as a reaction forming an antithesis. What makes the Star Wars galaxy so unique though is that Master Morality and Slave Morality are reversed, with the Slave morality being the original thesis for the Jedi and Master Morality with the Sith being formed as a reaction or antithesis. Aka the One Hundred Years of Darkness in Star Wars lore in which there was a Civil War within the Jedi Order which gave birth to the Sith. This reversal presents the Master Morality of the Sith as evil, and the Slave Morality of the Jedi as good but only because there is NO alternative due to the existence of the Force. Either you forsake your humanity and teach the way of the Jedi or use the Light side (effect) of the Force, becoming selfless; or you become agents of Evil that bring ruin to the Galaxy by succumbing to the dark side of the Force. This is why the Jedi do what they do, this is why they indoctrinate Force users, this is why they cut off all ties with others, because there is literally no other option. If anyone were allowed to embrace their humanity, they would become greedy, and fear losing their loved ones like Anakin did, and from there, the Dark side is like a powerful drug which you can't get enough of. Furthermore, due to existence of midicholorians, there will ALWAYS be Force sensitives. Which means inevitably, due to the inherently selfish nature of life, there will always be Dark side users or Sith. That means the Force will always plunge the galaxy into war to eliminate the Sith and exterminate the corruption (the dark side). This is what Lucas meant by, "It's like lines of poetry, it rhymes."

[@ExtraordinaryJam]

can I ask when did George Lucas said this? Or are you defining this in your own terms? plus a regular movie goers wouldn't think this kind of shit, because of that, they can never truly understand what nihilism is like you do for the star wars universe, regular movie goers wouldn't care and midichlorians weren't that big of a deal until phantom menace, most of which regular star wars movie fan goers can't even remember, because the prequels are not that memorable, star wars weren't meant to tell a story about nihilism and how pointless all the things are, but to tell a classic story of good vs evil and that good will triumph over evil, that's what star wars story wanted to tell, not your twisted view of the star wars story should've been done. From the beginning of the original trilogy, the first movie which was called "star wars" was later called as "A New Hope" literally screams at you in the face that amidst all hopelessness and despair, there is a hope in the hero/ the protagonist that will save everyone. Not necessarily a tale of "its all pointless and fall into despair", that's not a star wars story, the main theme of a star wars story is the good guy will always defeat the bad guy, even though that takes struggles and many defeats, like Anakin falling into the dark side. That's the thing I don't like about fandoms and continouity in an otherwise completed story, people (fandoms) are bound to make up some delirious continuations of the story, when there is nothing left to tell, that's why I always hate expanded universe of a self-contained story, because you know what, it all becomes pointless in the end just like you said.

[@LightAndDarkMdness02]

Ide v Lucas built the story as he went along, by the time of ROTJ he originally had a much darker ending where Luke became the new Vader, the Rebellion fails, and Leia and Han are executed on Endor, and the movie ends showing that the Rebels weren't all that great. However, corporate got involved and thought such an ending would hurt toy sells. George gave in and that's where Luke's famous line to Harrison Ford regarding killing off Han Solo comes in, "Dead Han doesn't make a good action figure." Luke never set out to make a movie for the average movie-going audience. He wanted to make something profound, echoing the past of Sci-fi and turning it into a sort of Space Opera about dysfunctional family in a dysfunctional galaxy plagued by war. Also, take a look at the things that INSPIRED Lucas, and the Force itself. Nietzsche philosophy was a huge inspiration in Star Wars and the Sith and Jedi have an Apollonian/Dionysian dichotomy. The Force is Manichean in nature, meaning in a way you're correct. Star Wars is about good triumphing over evil, but the catch here is that when creating Star Wars Lucas wanted to introduce the concept of God and noticed it could be reduced to a single chromatic concept- an unknowable entity that manipulates causality. This made Lucas want to expand on his original foundation of Star Wars. Yes, the Jedi are "good" and the "Sith" are evil, but only because their is no alternative due to the existence of the Force- The real bad guy of Star Wars (Go Watch this awesome video called the Philosophy of Kreia, great deconstruction of Star Wars). Furthermore, George himself isn't a very happy guy, he suffers from depression and high stress ever since his Wife divorced him. Lucas laid the ground work for the nihilistic cycle of Star Wars, and after other authors came and contributed to the universe, by the time of the prequels Lucas decided to subtly introduce what had been hinted at in the EU by introducing the concept of "echoes" and "Poetry", directly telling his audience that events in the Star Wars universe have been repeating since before the OG trilogy, and even the Prequels. The "Star Wars" have been happening likely forever within the Star Wars universe, hence "Star Wars". Also, I just want to elaborate. Just because Star Wars is nihilistic doesn't mean it's bad. It's a beautifully tragic tale of war, a long time ago... In a galaxy far, far away.

[@ExtraordinaryJam]

LightAndDarkMdness02 where did you learn his biography from? How do you know he suffered from depression?

[@ExtraordinaryJam]

LightAndDarkMdness02 you didn't​'t answer my questions?

[@die1mayer]

Humans were also always at war with each other, that didn't require the force. Destruction and creation are natural and mythological concepts. Instead of ideologies, Star Wars gave us a timeless struggle between stoic guardians of justice and emotion-driven princes of terror.

[@aleatoriac7356]

One of the more interesting videos on this subject, thank you for making it. I think there is an important and often overlooked problem with nihilism. There are two kinds, it seems. Existential nihilism and moral nihilism. A lot of this is tied into Hume's fact/value dichotomy, later revisited of course by Nietzsche. I don't think moral nihilism is a coherent concept, and I don't think it follows logically that just because existential nihilism obtains, moral nihilism must follow. Perhaps all we need to do is imagine a Universe in which there is no conscious life. Totally azoic. It simply exists. It seems instantly clear that nothing matters there, there is no meaning there, no purpose, no sense that it is like anything to experience being. Facts could not exist, for it takes a conscious entity to parse them. Values could not exist likewise. But it isn't just that we are conscious - it's the _way_ in which we are conscious. It's just a moment, really. A "now." - A bundle of sensations. Everything else about the nature of those sensations it seems must be inferred, discovered. Seems to me that existential nihilism is inevitable, even if one posits some kind of _a priori_ creator god, because a god could not have antecedent causes, and could have no _reason_ - no rational _justification_ for anything it does. No purpose or plan. Anything it does would be arbitrary in the most exaggerated possible sense. But moral nihilism is not coherent because there is conscious life in our Universe. This life has the specific limitations we have in navigating and surviving our environment. Seems morality is the way we measure possible and optimal ways of navigating our environment toward greater states of consciousness and well-being. Well-being is simply the elimination of unnecessary harm and suffering, a minimizing of all suffering, and a maximizing of health and psychological non-pathology. I think hollywood may be making stories of late which exemplify this confusion. Enlightenment practices, reason, the scientific method; these are the ways out, but they are limited by the problem of induction. And yet the old models, the gods, the might-makes-right fallacies; these have failed us. So many people seem to not know how to "ground" their values in this confusion. But the answer has been unfolding before us, it's been with us all along.

[@chrissonofpear3657]

Interestingly stated...

[@TKnightcrawler]

This atheist agrees with you. :-P

[@007Spadge]

As a student in philosophy this video resonated a lot with me, I also reached the same conclusion than you did. The concepts of nihilism, post modernism and moral relativism were part of my vocabulary as I formulated my criticism for the movie. Furthermore, I like the way your mind works, we can see philosophy has a positive effect on your inner household and your language as a consequence. Very interesting video here, thank you for making this!

[@botero01]

just to explain a couple of things: "killing God" means destroying the sacred , that is, expanding skepticism and critical thinking to everything. This happened for many reasons, but one of them is just how available other points of view became as communication improved. Everyone knows they don´t have access to the ultimate truth. Adapting to everything being relative is HARD and postmodernism is just term that was created because naming our current age is no longer possible, since it´s very difficult to create a point of view that succesfully conquers all hearts and stablishes itself as the unquestioned truth. People now under the same roof often believe wildly different things, communicate and make friends with people all over the world, vote in opposite directions etc. Back to the future, Jurassic Park and other such films are 100% postmodern films. They deal with manipulating life, the meaning of history, the reality of everything being malleable to a large extent. Nietzsche despised nihilism, the issue is that avoiding it in an age where everything is relative (and it is, I mean, even scientists agree, look up the collapse of the wave function, or Eisntein´s theory of relativity) adapting to that without becoming depressed is pretty difficult. Current films try to play the market AND comment on the current condition. It was fascinating to me to see Luke dissapear as a consequence of becoming an incorporeal image withouth substance for example. Basically he doesn´t die, he just dissapears AS AN EMPTY IMAGE. The film is moronic, MORONIC, but it also has some strange depths that are very strange... Anyway, if you want to see good movies that tackle the postmodern condition, watch the new twin peaks...Or great anime, like evangelion...Or just read Dune, which is starwars for adults (I m sure you´ve read Dune).

[@stormhawk31]

Relativism is false, and adapting to it is hard because human beings naturally have a hard time accepting the unacceptable. If the truth is that there is no truth (relativism), then that statement is false, and therefore self-refuting. According to the basic laws of logic (with which most people are unfamiliar these days, thanks to our "education" system), any statement which is self-refuting is an absurdity and false. Embracing such statements is NOT a mark of wisdom and enlightenment, it's a mark of stupdity and insanity.

[@botero01]

it´s like the number pi, truth exists but is by definition unnatainable. Or a dictionary, defining words with words, all roads in thought point towards a blindspot at the heart of language: the void. When you go near it, language structures fall apart, the same way quantum fisics reveal even causality is not a real solid law of the universe (time and space are seemingly superficial fenomena also, not the "setting" of the world. If you read Nietzsche you may understand; you calling me read as marks of success, positive things. For monsters (like the addams family) being ugly is beautiful.

[@stormhawk31]

a a Incorrect. The fact that we cannot have COMPREHENSIVE knowledge of Truth does NOT mean that we cannot have ANY knowledge of Truth. That some things are true is simply self-evident, and EVERYONE acknowledges this - until they find it inconvenient to do so. Moral relativism isn't a truth, it's an excuse.

[@botero01]

The truth is not something external,dictated by the universe, specially when it comes to moral truth. "Evil" people often believe they are doing good, how do you know your truth is "the" truth?

[@botero01]

I think you have a very limited, incomplete view of what "postmodernism" is. Since it´s a big subject, I will not attempt to sum it up here. You can read about those films here: in the preview, it´s very interesting, I reccomend it to you. www.amazon.com/Cinema-Simulation-Hyperreal-Hollywood-1990s/dp/1501320033 (click "look inside and read what you can about those two)

[@vidiveniviciDCLXVI]

David have you seen his first film Brick, it screamed sociopath as I was watching it, no understanding of morale choices, love or death.

[@neosoontoretro]

Why do people who want to talk the most about post-modernism and nihilism either don't know anything about it or only have a sophomoric understanding of it? The problem with the critics of post-modernism is that they get mad at the messenger, it's not the post-modernists fault that world is more complicated, more ambiguous, and more confusing then we think it is. If you honestly believe that we're living in a post-modernist, nihilistic world (obviously we're not) then how about you offer a better alternative, so far I haven't heard anything other than the ignorant ramblings about the lack of moral simplicity in Hollywood movies.

[@Ianassa91]

Amazing commentary. Love the philosophic approach. Got yourself a new subscriber.

[@theharderkickz8934]

I was really hoping the last jedi touched the subject of grey jedi, it was kind of there but it lost its focus with other things like the casino thing...

[@primroan5354]

Grey Jedi as a concept is weak, imo. But regardless of what I think on the subject, it can't even work with the relativistic universe they're trying to create. To be Grey you need a well defined Light vs Dark dynamic. Seems to me they're doing everything they can to destroy those absolutes. How can you be grey when everything else is also grey?

[@timokohler6631]

Grey jedi are a stupid idea.

[@alexandrumoraras]

It didn't touch on grey jedi, but it was a grey movie.

[@Aivottaja]

You're not the only one who thought this. And the marketing material gave good reason to expect this. Which I suppose was the point; bait and switch to add insult to the injury. I don't know. This whole thing seems so counterproductive, but that's not the real adjective. Short-sighted, I suppose, is more fitting. I mean, if me or anyone else were given control over Star Wars, you'd be damn sure you wouldn't destroy what it was, because those are things that made it in the first place. All this just to pander to an audience with calculated political virtue-signalling. At the expense of story-telling and under-estimating your audience's intelligence.

[@NEUR0MANCER_]

Its a minority audience as well, hollywood's world engulfs them now, they surround themselves by like minded people and never know what people actually believe, they just see the trends and expect it to be universal with millennials but its so far from the truth. yea alot of my generation are morons who have no values, we dont cling to anyone thing because it makes us think that it will help us relate to each other and to every culture by not subscribe to one. But something gets lost along the way. We cant all be raised by parents with a good moral system, who tell us we dont have to be what we dont want to, but we can tell the difference between right and wrong and thats why Im on the outside of my generation, I made the switch to being a moderate because I learned there is right and wrong, Im not apathetic in that I care what happens to my fellow man, I care about people so it makes me understand the depth behind star wars and its meaning. And because I grew up with a military father who was obsessed with teaching me his knowledge to carry on. Honor, strength. Like a jedi Im a pacifist who will defend myself if I have to, but I wont actively hurt someone and I wont lean left or right because I believe in doing whats right for man, no matter what it is and to many of my generation, dont know the difference and dont care.

[@tl4340]

Great discussion, but you missed a particularly good example of nihilism in The Last Jedi. Rose Tico at one point proudly says "Now it is all worth it" after releasing the stable animals, while pointedly ignoring the facts that (1) they will likely immediately be recaptured, and (2) there were enslaved human children that she ignores altogether. The amoral obliviousness of these lines shocked me while watching that awful movie.

[@gallendugall8913]

More like a political moral system. These modern movies remind me of films from Soviet era Russia. A focus on pushing a political message undermines the story.

[@DVSPress]

At this point I agree. I can't see writing bad stories as good for the bottom line, but hollywood seems quite able to prove me wrong.

[@gallendugall8913]

TLJ is making money, but how much more could it have made if it was a good movie?

[@thedragondread9587]

TLJ is only a bit postmodern, nothing compared to things like Deadpool or Charlie Kaufman or others. But you can't watch Luke Skywalker doing the most Jedi thing ever and restoring hope in the galaxy and ending with the broom boy being fascinated by his legend and wanting to be a jedi, and say that this movie is nihilistic. I'd say in the scale of idealism vs cynicism, it starts pretty cynical but evolves into idealism. So no, not much nihilism here

[@kungfew8432]

First off, Lucas had to explain the force as metachlorians, big mistake! Can't anything remain a mystery? Nope, they are microscopic symbiotes that mess with the destiny of every thing! Funny how in the original trilogy Yoda, Obi Wan, never mention this important point to Luke! Guess they could not forsee Lucas's bad writing! Oh well I'm sure we will hear more about them in the current trilogy somewhere as long as they address white space man privilege.

[@awkwardsaxon9418]

kung Few lol I can remember the uproar in the sw community as that got introduced, at some point they wanted the scenes in the phantom menace reffering to midichlorians to be deleted and regarded as non canon. (as now there is a petition to make the last jedi non-canon btw lol)

[@xYSarenArteriusxY]

Every living organism in the Star Wars galaxy has midichlorians. Only a few of them can use them/manipulate them in order to use the Force. The Phantom Menace says that the midichlorians don't control people or their destiny

[@NameUserOf]

I can't believe people write something this stupid after watching a movie. 1. Midichlorians aren't the Force, they help communicate with it. 2. With technology that is available in SW universe and for Jedi cult being there for thousands of years its absolutely unrealistic to have this group of people and even outside of it, and have zero study for the Force. 3. What was important about midichlodians and how exactly would it help Luke? The only reason Qui-Gon even mentions them is because he was directly asked for it. And Obi-Wan already knew who was his father, so he knows what kind of potential Luke has, no point to build/steal the device and checking anything.

[@TheSuperQuail]

This is something I'd really like to see you return to, maybe with specific examples from films.

[@sergius8562]

you have a very simple way of seeing people

[@Masteroogway40]

David, you are always so eloquent you have an excellent ability to teach Concepts in a manner that are easy for others to understand. I have been thinking and telling people for some time now that Rian Johnson is most definitely a nihilist and it comes out in his movies. And you here say things in a way that I keep thinking "oh I should have put it that way" or "I should have said that." You have a talent for explaining things. What made me realize this most of all was seeing segments of Looper. I have not seen the entire film of Looper, because I don't like rated R movies so I haven't seen the whole thing but I have seen large segments of it. Enough to realize that the movie Looper is extremely nihilistic in tone. It is a post-apocalyptic world with no purpose, no reasons, no morals; really no good people at all. People who kill for a living, who just get a paycheck for it, or rather little silver bricks, who are even fine killing the future versions of themselves, and then they just blow their money on drugs and sex and do it all over again the next day waiting for their life to just end. And you have this creepy evil kid with unfathomable powers, an older version of Joe who wants to kill the younger kids and has no moral compunctions against doing so, and then young Joe who is purposeless and finally just takes his own life to end the whole thing. Then I realized that Rian Johnson essentially just remade Looper in the Star Wars universe. Luke is Old Joe, who just wants to die and wants to be left alone, Ray is the creepy kid with powerful unfathomable abilities and kylo ren is young Joe he wants to kill the past. Ryan Johnson literally just put Looper into Star Wars with all of its nihilistic tone and purposeless characters. Also you talk about the satanic and version of things and one thing that people don't realize in The Last Jedi is that Luke is actually in the dark side. People say oh no he's just grumpy and cantankerous. No it is made perfectly clear in the original trilogy is that fear is a part of the dark side, if you are exercising fear or running on fear you are in the dark side. And Luke throughout the movie constantly is afraid he even says it, as in when he says "I have only seen this kind of raw strength once before it didn't scare me enough then it does now." They successfully made the most optimistic hopeful hero into as you say, of worthless purposeless non Noble dark side failure.

[@DVSPress]

Thank you!

[@NotOrdinaryInGames]

You are so wrong and right at the same time. You are the impossible man.

[@mokenetgumshoe1064]

NotOrdinaryInGames Care to elaborate?

[@NotOrdinaryInGames]

Misunderstanding the SW movies in a couple of places, praising people who were wrong in history just because their beliefs were strong, and the biggest one of all, the belief that morality (as in truth about good and evil) comes from God enforcing it. And the WW2 generation was not the strongest, unless blind obedience and brute strength counts.

[@mokenetgumshoe1064]

NotOrdinaryInGames I don't think he said most of those things.

[@NotOrdinaryInGames]

I think he did.

[@mokenetgumshoe1064]

NotOrdinaryInGames It may also be that you've got a chip on your shoulder. No offense intended. You're using much stronger language than he did iirc. Take care.

[@jennahholo3027]

Absolutely masterful analysis! Praise Jesus, this was wonderful!