Nikon Z9 / D3s Tough Conditions | Real World | LET IT RAIN ☔️ | Matt Irwin

#NIKON #Z9 #D3s
Nikon Z9 and D3s both cameras legends in their own right, how do they compare with a 12 year age gap...
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[@clayknowles7382]

Actually prefer the D3 in two of the photos sets. Colors and blacks are more appealing even though the focus and sharpness aren't as good. The feel of the D3 is really great. The Z is more clinical and exact. Depends on what your preference is. Amazing how good the D3 is after all these years.

[@MrPressPhotographer4]

I had both and the D4. The D3s were the best in my opinion.

[@just_A_Hack]

I am impressed with how well the d3s holds up. There is definitely a difference, but still impressive.

[@MattIrwinPhotography]

Yeah I agree.

[@RandomVideos-hm3kg]

depends on the scenery- if you gonna print or not and your Audience, your 95% audience is on mobiles and cannot understand - read what our eyes are reading.

[@charlesdavis6371]

I really enjoyed this - but then again, I'm sitting in my warm dry home. It's amazing to me how well that D3s stands up even today. TY for this Matt.

[@martyjwalker]

This proves the point (to me at least) that newer isn't necessarily better, especially considering there's 15 years between the two cameras. Clinically sharp and characterless images seems to be the nature of the output of new cameras at the moment. I think we hit the limit of what is considered a good camera a while back. The rest is 'now it's got this feature" marketing and FOMO that drives camera sales.

[@AdamJonesPhoto]

100%

[@badger67]

I wholeheartedly agree with you Marty. I'm looking to upgrade from my D300s to the D3s eventually.

[@jaceksnaturblicke5278]

Yes and thats why i Order a d3s today 🙂

[@linjicakonikon7666]

"Art is in the edges. Technology polishes down those edges until the Art is gone"

[@MattIrwinPhotography]

Or not. It is a choice.

[@ianplattyt]

As I sit here may 8th 2023 on eBay D3S -£500 / z9 £4k.. I genuinely can’t see £3500 worth of difference 😮

[@2klember]

I’m not sure what’s your channel about but this is exactly why I have no desire to switch to mirrorless. Why I would like to have 2.8 lens if my bokeh will be less blurry and more sharp. Thats why I dont like mirrorless system because images looks just way to digital. D3s is one amazing camera. I still use this beautiful body for my wedding work even today! The output is just amazing. And I would like to say Im not using D3s just because I do not have other camera bodies available, but I do use D3s because is such a pleasure to shoot with this legend.

[@andredavy1806]

truly a remarkable camera I would never sell it.

[@ronboe6325]

To answer your question on the "out of focus" areas on the D3 with the F lens; you need to take that same lense and put it on the Z9. My hypothesis is that the lower resolution of the D3 has a great deal to do with it (but the lens also contributes some). But if you swap bodies you'll know how much the camera contributes to the "problem" vs just the lens. We're in a mega drought so watching the rain was really sweet. Thanks!

[@SarveshParakh]

Done with testing lenses on Z mount and F mount and I can assure you it is an issue with Z mount lenses. Has nothing to do with lower resolution. I tested on D750 and Z5, both exactly the same resolution. Still the same issue. But the f mount lenses work on mirrorless exactly like they do on dslr in this regard. So i guess it’s not a sensor issue. Its the lenses or maybe the post processing in camera when using modern z lenses (even RAW files have this same issue so what I mean is post processing at the RAW level).

[@ronboe6325]

@@SarveshParakh Thanks! I only use one or two F lenses on my Z6 and Z7 and they seem to work out OK (newest 70-300 and the 200-500 beast). Naturally, not very fast. A sigma 105mm f/1.2 does extremely well too.

[@jpdj2715]

Your proposal is fair at first face, but overlooks an important detail. When we look at our images, we look at raw files (sensor scans with monochrome 14 bits data elements) that have been converted into files of RGB data elements (pixels). This wild-assed guessing of missing colours in the raw file happens in camera to generate JPEGs, movies and the viewfinder or display image. And it happens in post in Lightroom Classic (LrC = Camera Raw (CR)). That is Task #1 of raw processing. Task #2 of raw processing is how to deal with the pixelation effect or aliasing. This can be helped in camera with a - my name for it - fuzzy filter and all Nikon DSLR below the D800E in resolution have that fuzzy filter (AKA Anti-Aliasing (AA) - I rate low pass filters as fuzzy as well). The D3 has a fuzzy filter, the Z 9 has not (Z 6(ii) has it, Z 7(ii) not. D500 with 20MP or so at APS-C does not have it (it has very high photosite density). The fuzzy filter makes Task #2 easier and helps a bit in the colour guessing and smoothness of the image, edges and gradation but it comes at the cost of reduced contour sharpness, colour space, dynamic range and low light sensitivity. And as the fuzzy filter adds to the filter stack over each photosite in the sensor (photosites are the actual sensors, analogue and colour-blind) that adds to the vignetting problem of digital cameras in general. You might say, but the fuzzy filter is in the camera and you would be right. Except in the wild-assed colour guessing that is raw processing the presence of the fuzzy filter is taken into account - to some extent and that may vary. Note here that several apps that can be used as plugin into LrC actually do their own raw processing (e.g. DxO and Topaz apps) and AFAIK only DxO now takes our corrections into account (at least when we use the .XML files to (also) store our raw processing decisions from LrC). When the raw processing is done, the next software hurdles are the video driver with your graphics card that also has ideas about dealing with AA (being a software fuzzy filter) and when we print this applies to printer driver and printer driver hard- and software in the printer too. When DxO Mark make us believe that a camera's quality depends on the sensor only then that is a load of [animal waste output] and that starts with the Bayer filter that the camera places over the sensor. It also overlooks that a camera manufacturer may actually specify the complete sensor design when the semiconductor company baking the sensor chip is only a "foundry". In the case of Nikon - they have had a leading position for a decade or more in design and production of machines that foundries use to produce chips and were involved in the early design of sensors, e.g. with Kodak. In a Windows (10) PC, in a default LrC setup, look in this folder and you see the raw processing profiles that LrC applies for your camera when you leave the raw processing profile choice at Adobe Standard: "C:\Program Files\Adobe\Adobe Lightroom Classic\Resources\CameraProfiles\Adobe Standard\Nikon Z 9 Adobe Standard.dcp". If you choose camera profile then LrC has its options in "C:\Program Files\Adobe\Adobe Lightroom Classic\Resources\CameraProfiles\Camera\Nikon Z 9\" for Z 9 and in "C:\Program Files\Adobe\Adobe Lightroom Classic\Resources\CameraProfiles\Camera\Nikon D3\" for the D3. LrC also has a bunch of camera+lens combination profiles for the D3 in "C:\Program Files\Adobe\Adobe Lightroom Classic\Resources\LensProfiles\1.0\Nikon\" but not for the Z 9 as the Z cameras cater for the lens profile in the raw shot's metadata. The Adobe Standard folder, today on my computer, has 987 different camera profiles that provide parameters for the raw processing algorithms. My experience with LrC and Z 7 is that LrC can give colour and luminance noise in broad midday midsummer daylight in certain surfaces when Nikon NX Studio does not (and neither did Topaz Gigapixel AI TGAI) - and some Nikonians feel that Nikon does too much softening/smoothing in NX's "Detail" powers (cf. LrC in Develop tab and "Detail" panel). TGAI did remarkable detail recovery without any of the noise becoming visible to me. As to putting F lenses on a Z camera, LrC does not have dedicated lens profile files for them and then the question is if the Z camera would also put an F lens profile in each shot's metadata. Or, you may be right without reservation, but so much is happening in software that that is unlikely, rather. Oh, Matt shot a D3S, not D3, well, mutatis mutandis the same story.

[@ronboe6325]

@@jpdj2715 Excellent points. Sidebar: Matt (and I) are processing in Capture One. I have no experience with the Adobe suite(s) so I can't speak to the differences between the two when it comes to handling RAW files. I suspect something very similar is happening. The AA filter was completely over looked on my part - my bad.

[@jpdj2715]

@@ronboe6325 - I tried C1. It opens in a more vivid rendition. When I create a colour profile for light+camera+lens with my X-rite tools, it's all similar. C1 has two problems for me. It is slow in supporting new gear and it doesn't correctly deal with white point and black point changes I make. When, say, your histogram indicates you have so few pixels in the top quarter that it seem there's nothing there, then you can lower the white point. That should be an absolute change relative to EV in your raw file. Make exposure changes in the regular place and your choice of white point must stay the same. Not in C1 and as I frequently use that, C1 is unworkable to me. Add bad Ts & C's. Maybe for tethering. No, as you can understand, I'm not a fanboy of the Mudbricks (*) who spend my money in mobile platforms doing similar things with newly written code, could do better in software engineering and innovation. I didn't buy Topaz until recently because their installation needed too many tries and was too expensive as a bundle. Bottom line, when you run your 24MP Nikon shot through TGAI, you'll be astonished. Why I migrated from D to Z? The lenses have silenced my recurring rant of the past 45 years with Nikon (I shot Hasselblad and LD too) that most of their lenses had too much chromatic aberration and tint differences between them. Not anymore and sharper.

[@badger67]

I think my next upgrade is going to be a D3s 👍

[@AdamJonesPhoto]

This video highlights one thing only. Just how bloody amazing the D3s is!! The Z9 has characterless flat images, too many pixels. I just won a major news agency competition with my D3s. Best Nikon ever made imho

[@jeffreyneville9769]

The only thing I can think of is it seems like the majority of Z mount lenses are sharp edge to edge wide open while "F" mount lenses tended to be soft in the corners unless you stopped down 1-2 stops, just my opinion. Thanks for this comparison Matt, my only Pro Body prior to my Z( and (D850?) was the D3 and I loved that camera.

[@roybixby6135]

The Z9 may be stopped down 1-2 stops...🦘

[@SwanSycorax]

love the rich colours you get with these night city street shots. Almost makes me want to go out and get wet in the rain!!!!

[@rick-ross]

Thanks for the great video, Matt! FYI, you stated that the Z 70-200 does not have lens VR, but it actually does (although there is no VR switch on the lens). It benefits from both lens VR and IBIS through the Z9.

[@MikeJamesMedia]

Fun to see this comparison. We've come a long way! :)

[@haroldbielstein3530]

Thanks for the comparison video! Quite informative! Would really like to see the same comparison between the D6 and z9.

[@ernie28ernie]

Hi Matt, so good to see you I liked to come along on your field trip very much! Awesome photos from both cameras! Your videos are always a highlight of the day. And the music hamronized with the look in this video just perfectly 👌 Cheers, Martin

[@MattIrwinPhotography]

Thanks sir. You made my day. Lovely to have you on the field trip. ☔️👍😀

[@dct124]

I think you're showing me the reason I sold my Z50. Even on that small APS-C everything was so sharp. I like sharpness but I'd take mood over clinical sharpness any day especially if I can get it straight out of camera. The Z9 definitely is a super sports and product camera. I even sold my DF and went back to a Nikon D200. I was never using more than 5mp for anything even paid work. None of my clients wanted big files, and I haven't made a print in 8yrs, maybe longer. Most images were used for badges and business cards. Probably used 1mp. I think I'll get another DF just for personal use, loved using that camera. Matt I'm to the point where I'm about to change my image size to S Jpg. Like no one I meet needs big files anymore.

[@guitaretc.485]

The dinosour nikon d3s is amazing. I like the output from it than the z9. Simply amazing, beautiful.

[@m40marine]

I got kind of a Bladerunner vibe from the rain video.

[@tomaszstramel3594]

My guess it's a combination of the low-pass filter on the D3s plus a larger area on the Z9 sensor that's benefiting from the "oversized" Z-mount design (the center part of the lens with the best optical characteristics has a longer radius on the Z9, with sensor size the same in both cameras).

[@Interbeing_CDN]

Makes me want to go out in the rain! Great video and comparison, thanks Matt!

[@MattIrwinPhotography]

I love shooting in these conditions, certainly you know your alive. 😀👍📷☔️

[@josephsworkshop75]

Magic shots Matt. Colours were great in a lot of the vid. Fantastic. Well done.

[@MattIrwinPhotography]

Thanks Joe, most of the video was flat profile, so I could have pumped it all up :)

[@josephsworkshop75]

@@MattIrwinPhotography Looks great on my laptop monitor.

[@jrarsenault1937]

Great video! Would love to see comparison between your Z6/Z7 and Z9 - how much better is new tech from original Z mount?

[@abmbarry]

Thanks again Matt. This shoot clearly took a lot of effort and skill sets to produce an understandable excellent result. I forwarded this link to some friends.

[@GoneToHelenBach]

Thanks for demonstrating what I already knew...that the very high megapixel sensors in many modern cameras are pretty much pointless.

[@davewalker5706]

That’s commitment Matt being out in those conditions. I see you have Specsavers too down there

[@duncanwallace7760]

I've heard people use the term 'edge to edge sharpness'. Maybe its not more depth of field, but rather that the older lenses lose sharpness as you move away from the center of the frame. You could do a test with a range of depth right in the middle of the frame to test it. Great shots. I love your enthusiasm for city-scrapes. I get excited in natural settings and wish I could be more motivated to take photos in cities!

[@TheRealLerad]

Uuuuh, that intro! Love it. Sadly I never had a D3, but I can't wait for my Z9 being delivered. As always a great Video and I would give a lot to have the "eye for good shots" you have. Portrait, landscape or city.... I just don't see the good interesting shots. Animals and wildlife? That's my turf.

[@LEXPIX]

A love a rainy night. That DOF difference is indeed interesting.

[@mcrazza]

I'd like to see a comparison of the 24-70 F-mount on the D3s and Z9 via FTZ to see whether it was indeed centre sharpness of the lens or if the Z9 is doing some additional computational processing to the image (i.e. sharpening) or if it's simply down the advantages of the Z-mount and its shorter flange distance when coupled with a Z lens.

[@kaminobatto]

Hey Matt, have you tried to look above and below the lens' centre plain of focus? Might be some field curvature there? If not, then it's almost guaranteed that the difference is due to the advancements in the optical formula of the Z lens.

[@elielkanabarus9248]

I’m still using D3S as my main camera & back up. Haven't thought about changing the camera yet.

[@bartg8172]

The F mount 24-70 lenses are known to have a curvature in the focal plane, try the F-mount on the Z9 to be sure there is no other processing going on.

[@marcusbraun8889]

Loved mt D3 but found the z7 sensor and its images a huge improvement. D3 often had this slight adjustments I needed to do, white/color balance, saturation, etc. Much less so with the Z, the NEF's are way more pleasant directly out of camera. The image with the wooden doors shows this (albeit one seems to have indoor lights on the other not, might have affected the outcome). In my eyes the image quality has vastly improved as well in terms of ISO - yes, the noise patterns are about the same...but then look at how much more detail in the z9 image is! Just look at those mosaic tiles, the stickers, all that crisp detail! I wonder what it would take for the z9 to create an image with the same low 12mp level of detail than the D3 at iso 800. Shoot at iso 1600/3200/6400/12800, throw on NR, downsize to 12mp...that sort of thing. Would be interesting to see how far you can go until the image matches the D3 in both, noise and detail. Great rain walk, love those nights (and the days) here in Bkk as well, rainy season is much more fun than boring blue skies! Nice journey back to the D3 as well, my prime camera until about 2.5yrs ago. Yours looks like mint, mine is totally banged up, but, surprisingly, everything still works. Good stuff! Markus

[@kylezeringue5673]

Looks like a challenging soaker. I am looking forward to high iso comparisons between the Z9 and (unfairly) a D5 to see how the Z9 compares to the D5 light bucket pixels. Another interesting comparison- thanks, Matt!

[@davekallaway7248]

That’s what I’d like to see! I have a Z9 on order..as does half the world! But I’m considering canceling the order to buy a D6..for low light, theater, and sports. What do you guys think?

[@kylezeringue5673]

@@davekallaway7248 Dave, I only took the Z9 out for a few minutes. I did shots at iso 64. 6400, 10 000, and 25600. At 10 000 one could use the images if you can stand a bit of residual noise. At 25600 the couple images I did were exposed for a distant ATM machine but the bulk of the image was far too underexposed to really judge it. So I will do a few more in a more evenly lit environment. Also need time to shoot more iso variations. For now I'd say 25600 is a last resort, but more (and more appropriate) tests to come. Cheers

[@Funktrainer]

@@davekallaway7248 The EVF is the main point for the Z. Once you have it you won’t want a digital camera without. Another point is that Nikon doesn’t really have a pro body other than the D3X for resolution.

[@charliewecker]

Watching from California. Man do I miss the rain. Looks so damn refreshing.

[@edaracedream1403]

i have the D3X and is still the best, really unique, more filmic look. i hate ultra sharpness

[@MattIrwinPhotography]

Hi Eda, D3x is a stunning camera and I agree there was something in the D3 series of cameras which was very filmic, why I still have mine today :)

[@artsilva]

That DoF at f2.8 on the Z9 setup is very peculiar. I was thinking it was a Mp resolution effect but that seems a bit of a stretch. There has to be something with the optics and in-camera processing that is doing this. It would be interesting to run the same test vs. a D850 setup and see if the F mount equivalent will have the same results. I bet it will have the same DoF look as the D3 result which means the Z9 is doing some kind of black magic.

[@snowmanphoto]

The new cameras are phenomenal. As I age, I appreciate the eye focus etc and especially the IBIS. i still enjoy taking out my D70 and D3s but they are harder to use well.

[@NikCan66]

another great vlog and honest opinions

[@JessDemant]

Hi Matt, for my work I am glad that today we do not have to choose a concrete block for camera, it makes one's work much easier! Cheers Jess

[@MattIrwinPhotography]

Hi Jess, when you say concrete block, you mean 500 gram difference? I am not aware of any concrete block that weighs only 500 grams. I am also glad there are lenses like the 800 PF, which show what high powered balance look like :)

[@JessDemant]

@@MattIrwinPhotography Hi Matt, I was thinking of the Nikon D3s :)

[@NikonD4]

Hi Matt, existing D4/D800/24-70 VR user here. I am interested in the VR department and would be grateful if you can test this out in the next video. Would Z9 + FTZ + F 24-70 2.8 VR yield better VR performance than Z9 + Z 24-70 2.8? Since the adapted combination would have VR in both body (3-axis) + lens, while the native combination would only have IBIS but in 5-axis. Have a great day and happy shooting! Thanks!

[@RaymondParkerPhoto]

Very interesting. Some great shots there. I'm guessing even with the rain it's not too cold. Here you'd be soaked AND hypothermic.

[@MattIrwinPhotography]

Yeah Ray, we are two weeks from winter and it is still far too warm here in Melbourne. We are having a very warm autumn. Cheers Matt

[@johnhjic2]

Hello Matt, I never had a D3, but I do have the D700, I am sure it uses the same sensor just a bit slower. It still give very pleasing results for a was it 15 years old you sad? I do believe you are so right about the EVF is far more usable in challenging conditions that the OVF's. But not having to turn on a camera to look though the OVF is the only benefit I have found. There is one thing I have found with the Z9 after updating to version 2 of the firmware when shooting with my 500mm pf some time I have found the EVF just have a bit more of a lag, but wether that was I was just very tiered or just a bad day. I do have one question for you are you using high efficiency or Lossless compression?

[@mika012300]

When i was finally looking to upgrade from my d3200 at the start of this year i rented a z6 and liked it wanted to buy a z5 but the pricing just put me off ended up buying a d3s from like 2013 and it's been great. For the money and how many lenses are available for it i think it's a great choice if you're just upgrading from entry level stuff.

[@GaleriaPuntoCiego]

FANTÁSTICO. GRACIAS MATT. BEST REGARDS FROM SPAIN. NANO.

[@ericerickson6537]

I have the Z7.2 and the D750 and find every time I use the 750 I ask why I gave it up for the Z7. It renders the images so well and sharp as does the 7 but there is a certain look to the 750 which is not in the Z7. Can’t explain it but I do love both and not planning on selling the 750 and may buy some used lenses to replace the ones I sold for the 750. For sure the 7 is smaller and lighter and that is a plus, but is it enough? Time will tell.

[@orlandocorry3369]

I guess I would ask the question Is sharpness the only reason to choose the Z9 because I feel sometimes sharpness takes away from the artful quality or rendering of a photo. Just my opinion. I loved my D3s and soon getting another.

[@malekzin4788]

it's crazy that a 13 year old DIGITAL camera still can compete with a brand new one. 1 year in digital camera is like 10 years in real world. so it's like comparing a 130 years oldcamera with a brand new one.

[@jean-claudemuller3199]

A lot of 24-70 AFS VR lenses from the first batches were slightly decentered, mine had to be realigned new as others I know. Also field curvature can play much for egdes focus position compared to center focus

[@Alex-B2357]

The 12mp sensor just doesn’t hold up to much cropping at all. But it beats what I could get with 35mm film.

[@kuaqimai]

Few year backs got a d3s and upgrade from my nikon d700 wanted to see how does the top camera line handling feel

[@jeffkernen1554]

You're right, that doesn't make sense that there would be all that depth of field at 2.8 on the Z9. I'd also be curious why this lens is doing this.

[@MattIrwinPhotography]

my current guess is centre sharpness combined with something else ... not sure what ... ? :)

[@tonytfuntek3262]

I wonder if the difference in DOF is due to the flange distance ?

[@63690lammeren]

I think that the difference of the depth of field is coming from de placement of the sensor , the are different ,the Z9 is closer to the lens than the D3

[@GordoFriman]

I've already noticed in many reviews how z lenses have bigger depth of field than F mount lenses. Also, i was able to test myself personally. the 50 afs 1.4g vs 50 1.8s and 24-70 f2.8g vs 24-70 f4s and 24mm 1.8s. My results: - The af-s 50mm 1.4g has always LESS depth of field (more blur) at equivalent aperture setting compared to the 50mm 1.8s. something like 1/4 of a stop. And luminosity was about the same. maybe F lenses a bit brighter... - The 24-70 f4s has more depth of field (less blur) than the 24-70 f2.8g at same aperture. (interestingly, VR version of this G lens has more depth of field than first non-vr version...) - The 24mm 1.8s has SAME depth of field than 24-70 f2.8 at the same focal lenght and aperture. i've also noticed that many z lenses are corrected for focus breathing with prevents zoom-in when focusing closer. Focus breathing helps giving the impresion than aperture is bigger, but its not. My conlusions: There is something not really "straight forward" or hidden on some Z lenses. The 50 1.8s and the 24 1.8s are more or less ok but the 24-70 f4s really gave me bad impression since day 1 (except of course for sharpness). it was really hard to separate subject from background. Im sure that theoretically all nikon claims are correct, but definitely the Z lenses dont render in the same way than older F lenses, and you can notice there is something different by looking at the "tube shape" of all z lenses, and their terrible cats eye/vignetting ratios compared to older f-mount lenses. (the same applies for other manufacturers). I'm happy with the z system, but its true that something was lost in the way to perfect sharpness.

[@j.m.gratton6000]

Would this serve as a solid example of the clinically perfect Z lenses vs the artsy feel of F-mount?

[@RandomVideos-hm3kg]

nice video- so you saying a d3s can go out in the rain and no issues ? I loved the shot on d3s better dont know why - obviously technology has advanced- i own a d700 love her

[@sb4photos]

Be curious to know how nx studio shows them. But yeh that 2.8 is like reverse what it really should be . I find z9 f5.6 can look like 2.8 on my d5

[@dct124]

This was a good one. Try comparing the D300s vs the Z50 or D200, D300. Love the colors from the D200.

[@sonica70]

Maybe the focus differential is related to fine tuning the focus with the F lens lens to the D3s body.?

[@1ThatChapCharlie]

Hi Matt, awesome video. What programme was you using in this video ? Many thanks.

[@MattIrwinPhotography]

Hi Charlie, thanks so much. Capture One. 😀👍

[@warlordpriest1]

Matt, Burning question for me throughout your brilliant nighttime videos: How do you get such wide and deep depth of field at those wide open aperture like f/2.8? Is it that you select the widest area possible in your focus type? Is it just that simple?

[@helthuismartin]

24mm has from nature already a lot of Depth of Field..Dont forget its only 24mm ,NOT 500 or 600mm..

[@justinmaccreery2490]

LOL, looking at the first comparison between the two camera's results, there's a graffiti crab-lizard that's in the D3's image. But in the Z9's image, it disappeared! Freaked me out until realizing the graffiti is on a door. And the door opened 😂 Love watching Matt's videos and his great photos he shares.

[@warlordpriest1]

I noticed that too, haha.

[@viewlesswind]

Did you shoot both on tripod? If not, that explains. IBIS makes the difference in sharpness.

[@whitewalker9622]

Could you do the same test between a z50 and a d5600 or so... Please...

[@thomaseriksson6256]

Just got a new D850 because I waited 2 years for a 55-60 Mpix Z8 and I'm not interested in a low Mpix Z8. I still have a D700 and D800E and I like the D800E. I use the D700 with a vertical grip. I also got the latest 24-70mmF2.8 E VR but that lens is only 4 of 5. Can you test the 70-200mmF2.8 E VR is a better lens?

[@pjimmbojimmbo1990]

Different Optical Formula in the Lenses. Put the F mount Lens on the Z9 and see if the soft edges come along.

[@andrewhowson33]

OK, so unless you need to shoot above 800 iso all the time, are worried about the position off the focus button in vertical position and are going to shoot in rain often, it looks like the twelve year old camera os worth considering taking into account its robustness and image quality. The only reason I upgraded to 24MPX was because for picture library sales and a minimum 8mp size at jpeg.

[@andreic5822]

The sharpness problem you are seeing on the D3s I think is related to a quality control issue of the lens. I am having the same issue but in my case on the same camera D810. My first 24-70 Nikon lens is perfectly sharp ascross the frame as the lens you have on the Z9 but my second identical 24-70 lens is not sharp just as your lens on the D3s.

[@lcador9]

Terrific outing. The z 24-70 is a vastly superior lens especially at the corners. Just because a lens is marked as 24-70 does not mean it shoots at 24-70 in the field.

[@GordonMoat]

A couple factors: Z-mount lenses better towards the edges, and in-body stabilization just works better at slow shutter speeds. What surprises me, especially since I was still using a D3 just three years ago, is that 12 MP from the D3S still looks quite good.

[@MattIrwinPhotography]

Yeah I think considering everything the D3s is doing really well. :)

[@RobertFalconer1967]

Not only that, but if you run your D3S files through Topaz Gigapixel AI they can look amazing. I've experimented with this myself and been blown away. The D3S sensor always had lovely tonal registration and basically no noise below ISO 6400, and the files respond extremely well to upscaling.

[@Jo-mm3vo]

@@MattIrwinPhotography what do you think about the D3X ? he would have done better against de Z9 ? great comparaison

[@MattIrwinPhotography]

@@Jo-mm3vo I have never used or owned a D3x, but I am sure it would do pretty well :)

[@jamesmichaels7821]

It’s not that it’s out of focus, it’s not getting as much data as the z9. The furthest parts of the image will always look better with a higher pixel count as it has more input data and won’t be as sparse due to pixels (kinda like oversampling when shooting in 4k then outputting to HD, will look sharper than just shooting HD from the get go). The problem that this brings up, is you have to make sure camera shake on these higher pixel cameras are handled well as when you can zoom in more, that 85mm lens is like a 135mm lens now.

[@chriswhitham9233]

I still have the D700 and D3s and Like them very much. But I decided to upgrade to A Z9 at its launch day. You have to keep up with Technology or fall behind

[@jaceksnaturblicke5278]

That softness gives so much more analog Feeling and the z9 Looks super clinical. But i Understand that people like it.

[@pcs9518]

The D3s reminds me of depth of focus with the old 35mm film cameras. I still shoot film and digital but I prefer film.

[@SarveshParakh]

First thing I noticed with my new Z5 after using a D750 for over 4 years was the exact same thing u noticed in the first test of shots with the pink board. After much trial and error with Z and F lenses, I’ve come to the conclusion that there is shallower dof in F lenses compared to the Z ones. And the effect can sometimes be worth over a full stop of dof. That’s insane. So essentially a Z mount lens is gathering in equal amount of light as it’s F mount version but has a very wide dof compared to it’s F mount version. Shooting with a 2.8 or 1.8 is not as creamy as with their F mount counterparts. Also about the cameras, the older DSLR may not be as great as the modern mirrorless in terms of high iso performance but their noise patter was ‘ART’. I could easily shoot 8000 iso on my d750 and deliver it to a client with the grain as it is but with my Z5, even though it is much cleaner than the d750 at higher ISO, it’s pattern is not as pleasing and hence needs NR after about iso 5000 to be able to deliver it. I hope Z9 has noise pattern at least as good as the D750. - This was actually the very first thing I noticed on the day of my very first wedding shoot with the new Z5, and then 10 minutes later, I noticed the dof issue.

[@bfs5113]

Images taken with my Nikon 24-70 f/2.8 G on the D3 will look sharper than using an older & cheaper Sigma 24-70 f/2.8 DG due to better micro-contrast (plus other properties). So my guess is that it is possible your images taken with the same F lens on the D750 & Z5 look the same, while a Z lens (with better micro-contrast) looks 'shaper' even on the out of focus area. Furthermore, Matt''s Z9 has 5-axis IBIS (VR) while his 24-70 f/2.8 VR lens only has 2-axis (?) stabilization. Thus a more stabilized image will look sharper as well, even if we discounted the increase MP will offer more details with improved micro-contrast to be considered as sharp. If Nikon produces a new 24-70 f/2.8 VR II that is equal to a Z lens optically then the difference may not be that apparent. Just a guess since I only have a Z6 with one Z lens that doesn't have a G lens counterpart to compare with. 🙂

[@SarveshParakh]

@@bfs5113 so in essence you are paying top dollar for a 2.8 to get a perceived dof of a f4 or even wider in many cases. I don't think that's fair. This is not due to contrast alone. Micro contrast, no matter how sharp the lens, does not render wider dof. If that were the case, people would just decrease micro contrast in post process to achieve a 2.8 look with a 5.6 lens. I'm afraid there is some issue with the newer lenses and it needs to be fixed. shallow dof is very crucial to my work (weddings) and I'm waiting for this to be fixed so I can actually jump into the Z lenses world with top dollar. Otherwise the FTZ is good enough to use almost all F lenses I have with very little difference in performance. By very little I mean completely acceptable in a real shoot. P.S. this is also perhaps why when we do video in weddings, the z lenses don't give us a pleasing look, not as pleasing as the f mount ones do. But I'm not sure if this alone is the cause of this pleasing phenomenon. Nevertheless, this is a real problem in many situations and a good thing in many other situations but I would like this to be fixed or give us an option to turn this on or off in camera. Whatever works.

[@bfs5113]

​@@SarveshParakh 👍Interesting info in regard to Z lenses from your experience and I'll definitely look into it when I add more to my collection. But that probably has to wait after Nikon finishes rehashing the same focal lengths in Z mount and comes up with something new, such as the Canon's RF 28-70 f/2. For now, I'm happy with my Z 50 f/1.2 S and adapted AF-S holy trinity & Canon EF 85 f/1.2 L II. But that may change once I get my Z9.

[@SarveshParakh]

@@bfs5113 congratulations on getting a Z9, in advance! Enjoy the beast!

[@lainesjuswin9481]

Die d3 macht einfach die schöneren Fotos... Nicht so digital, steril und perfekt, sondern einfach nur schön.

[@legacyfitness7469]

Have you tried to use the same lens in both? The differences may be lens regarded rather than just sensorwise

[@MattIrwinPhotography]

Great suggestion, I will follow up. :)

[@piterb.5444]

I saw a similar thing happening with the eos r and the 5d mk4 when they came out comparing the lenses, I think it may be related to the focal plane distance difference between the two systems, It may be possible that the design with the shorter focal plane have a deeper field of view at wider focal lengths, but that's just what I have observed with this systems, I'm not an expert at all.

[@torstenw5168]

It looks for me like the VR of the old lens is out of order and the reason for less detail. A broken VR does strange things. I had one.

[@Christographer_UK]

Hay Matt, why didn't you try the F-mount lens of the Z9 (with the FTZ adaptor)? That at least would help to figure out if it's the Z9 & the Z lens that fave greater Dof, or is it the Z body or Z lens, if that all makes sense?

[@MattIrwinPhotography]

Yep great idea, next vid, I did not notice this until I was back in capture one. The OVF was pretty dark, and I could not see much, a lot of the time through the D3 compared to the Z9 EVF :) coming soon :)

[@Christographer_UK]

@@MattIrwinPhotography Looking forward to seeing that video. 🙂

[@rickdeckard4434]

My guess is because the Z has a wider mount than the D and with lenses specificly made to get the best out of a wide Z mount, the light rays strike the sensor at the border of the sensor in a less steep angle. So the unsharpness in the D3 image borders isn't because the lens has less DOF but because of diffraction as the light rays hit the sensor at to steep of an angle. Anyway great test that convinced me to hold on a bit longer on my D3 and continue the Z adventure with my Z6.

[@linjicakonikon7666]

If everyone had kept their wonderful cameras from 10-12 years ago and donated the money they spent on all the "upgrades" and endless laptops, and DONATED to CHARITIES the world would be a better place. The good photographers would still be making good photographs, and the bad photographers would have moved on to video games.

[@djbelly4968]

nice video, if we can compare a d3s with z9 i will still buy a d3s in 2023.

[@lennutrajektoor]

The Low Pass filter on D3 is probably doing its job. What I have to say the way D3 competes against Z9 is astonishing. Considering the age of D3 it's clearly not behind or even on par "minus the low pass filter. The other explanation is also the Z-mount having shorter flange is making the Z-mount lenses look "in focus".

[@romiemiller7876]

A better comparison might be between the D800 and the Z9. That'd be interesting.

[@yashgupta8633]

I don’t know much about light physics but can someone confirm that flange distance doesn’t change depth of field at all?

[@dragonnyxx]

Flange distance does not affect depth of field at all. I can't think of anything that could cause this; all that comes to mind is that nominal focal length and aperture are both approximations and are only ever given for focus at infinity. Could be that one or both lenses are significantly off from their nominal apertures at this focus distance? I don't think that can be the whole story, or the exposures would differ significantly, but maybe it's part of it.

[@ron5935]

It is only partially Z9 or any Z lens I do not understand, some of my older lenses, Nikon F and Leica M, that were ok but not perfect turned out to be stellar on a Z camera. BTW Photoshop CC now has a function in camera raw where the image can be enhanced and / or made double length and width, ie 4 X original pixels.

[@MrModerate_kane]

But is it down to Calibration on F mount? Ie needs a fine tune etc. I still has a -2 and -1 on my F mount on my Z6II? Is it possible?

[@MattIrwinPhotography]

Great idea ... I have done this before, and you think even so some of the frame is in focus, other parts can be out due to this?

[@MrModerate_kane]

@@MattIrwinPhotography I do it for Z6II and D850 to all lens for that reason(i go to pro guys the does them all ).. Even the Z with F mount needed adjusting as he said he expected it as he got it on the BBC camera guys gear too with same lenses, what i love is now having adjustments at low end and the end, no long having to pick a mid point across both, as we only had 1 option. Just wish uk had Z9 stock(sigh), also would love to see an 850 image and Z9 to compare with. great vid as always though Matt.

[@markorchard2272]

In the UK today the Z9 is 10x the price of a used D3 and 15 years newer. I'd want see a bigger difference for £5000.

[@ytr8989]

At 2.8 you don’t want all the sharpness in your backgrounds. The D3 probably gets better bokeh. Also, did you notice the reds in the D3 really stand out. The red sign looks a little pinkish on the Z9.

[@MattIrwinPhotography]

It is hard to know what colour things are ... the lease sign was pink ... :)

[@dobbsgraphica4988]

I'm actually impressed with how similar they are! Look at how much phones have advanced in 14 years. For a third of the price I'll pick up a used D5. I'm sure the difference would be so small, the skills of the photographer could close that gap.

[@MattIrwinPhotography]

Ultimately a fabulous image will not even be inspected for grain, noise, even being a little soft of focus. The drama, mood and story will always trump all others aspects. :)

[@bobsardjono]

8.45μm pixel pitch.. 💙

[@jimmylovesbikes]

In your comparison images at f2.8, the extra depth of field in the Z9 shots is surprising and in many cases not wanted, would you agree? The background SHOULD be blurry.

[@cosmic_kid2868]

Colors are punchier in the D3. And sure when you zoom into the Z9 it’s amazing but that’s not what you do with an image. You shoot a composition for the composition not to pixel peep. I like the character of the F lenses and D3 combo. Too sharp just looks “too” real. I want some character. D3 all day for me, I don’t need to zoom in forever on my compositions

[@Elix17]

It's almost as if you had some focus stacking mode turned on on the Z9. Otherwise this DOF doesn't make sense. DOF on the D3S looks adequate for F2.8 on a full-frame camera.

[@MattIrwinPhotography]

Hi Elix17, no tricks here, this is just what the Z glass is like :). What are you shooting with these days? Cheers Matt

[@hishamosman4341]

When the D3 came out, it was more expensive when the Z9 came out.? All D series were excellent their own right, including the 800 series. Nikon had the liberty to study so many past bodies in order to perfect the Z series, more so from F to Z lens

[@1UAE]

hi🌺 I'm thinking to get z9 but can u help me, did u try sony lens's on Z9 with megadap ? please if u can try ill be happy to know

[@MattIrwinPhotography]

I have the new version from Megadap and will be trying soon.

[@1UAE]

@@MattIrwinPhotography thanks alot 🌺