Making Sense of CRYOGENICS: AMMONIA & LITHIUM | 24 | Factorio SPACE AGE

[@Khaim.m]

Nilaus put two recyclers feeding each other to destroy ice, said "does this work", looked at them and saw no ice, and concluded "no it doesn't work".

[@Dianbler]

I tried and it doesn't really work. But as you expand more and more, you actually end up using the ice

[@SoshJam]

@@DianblerIt totally works I used them all over the place

[@Dianbler]

@@SoshJam maybe I did it wrong. I had to put a million yellow chests hahaha. I'm thankful I didn't destroy it though, you use a lot of it once you reach science.

[@SoshJam]

@ i still have a huge excess even after science lol, to each their own i guess

[@Dianbler]

@SoshJam yeah, but it gets used. It's not being a bother anymore, so it's fine.

[@Slimefellaa]

having 2 recyclers feeding into eachother saved my ass so much in Aquilo, I just wish you could dump ice into the ocean like in vulcanus... i mean it makes sense right?

[@reuven2010]

Yeah seems kind of stupid that you can't dump it into the water ?

[@teridero1]

He almost put them against eachother, then he started assuming

[@TylerRayJohnson]

@@reuven2010it’s amonia, not water. The ice wouldn’t just disappear in an ammonia ocean

[@Ankh.of.Gaming]

@@TylerRayJohnson It's an "ammoniacal solution" and the first processing step is separating ice from ammonia, thus we can assume the ocean is literally an ammonia slushie. Dumping ice back in wouldn't make any difference. They made it impossible just to force us to import recyclers, it's a balancing decision, not a "scientific" one. (Whereas on Vulcanus the player might not have access to them yet, which is why we're allowed to throw stone back into... molten stone.)

[@SignificantOwl]

15:30 - With how much energy robots take on Aquilo, I highly recommend just feeding ice blocks into a pair of recyclers that recycle into each other, voiding it. Sure, it's 1 more recycler, but that's preferable, in my opinion, to making robots deal with enormous amounts of ice blocks on Aquilo. Maybe this is changed later in the video, though. 36:45 - Recyclers do recycle into each other. You do not need inserters or chests. :) Unless you for some reason want to have a buffer of ice.

[@PyroYeet]

idk if you noticed but aquilo rocks give premade lithium, this can just be smelted to make your first cryo plant, so no temporary setup was needed

[@nickevison391]

Yeah that's what he did in the Twitch stream. Not quite sure why he made a more permanent temporary build this time around

[@salemprompthous3820]

@@PyroYeet my guess is this yuotube series is orchestrated like a tutorial for those who haven't gotten to the planet yet, and if so, he probably wants to illustrate what most players might assume is the intended progression. Personally did the same, initially, then saw I had lithium and ice plates in my inventory after clearing out my initial island. Went to the next island and figured out why, then just set up a quick and dirty smelting rig and had enough lithium to make my first 5 cryogenic plants.

The first and simpler setup of the recycler destroyers works, you just didnt have any input.

[@HossainKhademian]

to have a better Heat storage , I think you can increase your power generators instead of edging near lowerband 450 C to edging near max temp 900 C in this way 1. you can have heat storage in case of emergancy or removing or stamping new builds 2. you can use longer heat pipe network since the heat lost (static cost) is covered by higher temp

[@wittyharp2869]

It’s better to just have a separate heat tower for heating the factory. Only need to keep it at like 100 degrees and no power fluctuations when you build something new. Idk why he’s connecting everything to the main power plant

[@alejandrovalerorios8194]

That would also have an increase in rocket fuel right?

[@submachinegun5737]

@@alejandrovalerorios8194Each building only consumes a fixed amount of energy and the pipes don’t lose heat, so the higher temp only acts like a larger buffer, consuming a bit more fuel on startup and then storing that energy

[@CoreyLandis222]

@@wittyharp2869 I have a tower per block and I've been keeping temps around 50 and it works fine. Some bigger builds go to 75.

[@Khaim.m]

30:10 Maybe it's worth having separate towers for power and heat? They're not terribly expensive, it's probably feasible to have them scattered around to provide heat. That would also avoid having long heat pipes everywhere.

[@matheusalvarenga7820]

the issue probably is feeding them, since bots don't work well on Aquilo and transporting things via belts needs a lot of heat pipes, so... If you're gonna use a lot of them, might as well expand from a single point or maybe two or 3 at most. centralizing a power plant might be a good plan.

[@maloo2brvo26]

Imagine underground heat pipes

[@wittyharp2869]

Makes so much more sense too.. somehow I’m supposed to believe the pipe sunk under the ice doesn’t freeze but a heating pipe can’t go down there.

[@mrShift_0044]

​@@wittyharp2869it would probably melt the damn foundation + essentially remove the whole challenge with ice planet... if you wanna, install some mods or somethin

[@wittyharp2869]

@@mrShift_0044 I mean, I get why, there would be no challenge with them if there were undergrounds, but it is kinda silly. though, the whole melt the foundations, yeah, that's reasonable. I'm just glad they let us use regular underground stuff, it makes no sense, but the whole planet would be a whole lot more complicated without them

[@simonnachreiner8380]

I'd love if that was a late aquilo tech somewhere after improved platforms. It would also make sense too. Are you telling me these things loose heat over distance yet the engineer never thought to y'know try burying the things for added insulation?

[@mrShift_0044]

@@simonnachreiner8380 I mean, improved foundations are made with materials that help resist all the elements of all the planets, including the cooling system, so it actually makes sence that those platforms would contain heating pipes INSIDE it, heating all buildings, and therefore removing all challenge of Aquillo, as long as you stamp a nuclear reactor or heating tower somewhere on it, but it's too easy. i would also probably make it that heat pipes and such heat devices lose heat from, well, heating everything,like a cost of x temp per one operation or just staying idle, that differs per machine and how active it is, so using bigger machines would drain more heat out of the system, as well as liquid pipes, because heating pipes with cold liquid is a hell that exists in real life :)

[@javierzurera986]

Finally caught up! I rewatched your base in a book recently, and I love how much joy you seem to have with this new series.

[@deredware9442]

I'm curious why you build iron copper and steel production on aquilo. Why not do the smelting up on the orbital platform and then send down the plates?

[@beric_ailey2330]

I think it's because you can't send fluids down and he wants to use the foundry's ability to cast anything from molten iron and copper on the planet.

[@willamyte]

You should name the Aquilo export ship “Canterbury” because it’s an ice hauler

[@AliceErishech]

You're saying it hauls ice? Sounds pretty cool.

[@indolentlayabout8285]

He already named his volcanos one that 😂

[@MrRedfalkon]

I'm also fell into a trap of producing rocket fuel with ammonia. With all the new cool recipes i completely forgot about usual oil processing, which is WAY easier without all this ice to deal with

[@Nilaus]

3 solid -> 1 rocket fuel with ammonia + 8 module slots. It is so much better to do that that old school rocket fuel.

[@simonnachreiner8380]

I'd actually say mixing the two isn't a bad idea. Cracking is actually fairly water intensive so sending the ice into a oil set up might be fun. Can't imagine heating it would be fun considering the standard pipe spaghetti for advanced oil processing.

[@tristen9736]

Undergrounds actually have insane heat cost compared to everything else. Underground pipes in particular take way more than anything else. Kind of makes sense since you are sinking an uninsulated pipe directly into ice.

This is accurate. If I interpret the data from the wiki correctly, heating 2 green underground requires 400 KW, while heating 10 green belts require 100 KW.

[@FumblerX]

Yes, it's just temporally build, just the starter base, 500h later ...... don't we all do that.

[@chimmy_jim]

Who knew that on an ice planet you'd have too much ice🤷‍♂. Great series, thanks!

[@lightlegion_]

You’re great! I love what you’re working on.

[@salemprompthous3820]

With the excess room in the Planetary HUB storage, why not just dump stuff down from the orbiting ship, send it back to the core planets, and pick up a resupply? From the time of landing, and till end of this episode, the ship could have been back twice with more of what Aquilo requires, like heat pipes. Could have offset the requirement of making them locally. Personally, I've got 4 of those "Destroyers" flying around to pick up designated supplies (one for concrete and other Vulcanus uniques, one that's filled with both Nuclear fuel from Nauvis and Rocket fuel from Gleba and so on), all of them converging on Aquilo to make sure my base doesn't freeze, and nothing stopping me from expanding at any given time. Even have a sub-block (2x2 Substations) just to rid me of ice: 12 recyclers in a square, all feeding into the next, and one requester always looking for a half-stack of Ice. Drains a bit of power, but well worth it, considering Ice blocks have a tendency to reliably block all throughput, one way or another. Thanks for all the happy times, great videos and, ofc, the blueprints, Nilaus. Keep up the good work ❤

[@starbreeze7249]

I think it's just a point of being self-sufficient, like many of the other planets are to cut down on the items required for importing. But if you wanted the lazy sort of self-sufficient, you could create a smart mall above the planet which would craft most of what he's crafting on the surface far easier

[@salemprompthous3820]

@starbreeze7249 orbital mall, I like that idea. Guess Aquilo's would be a big one, though, as it'd require missiles for defense, unlike the other planets where regular ammo is enough.

[@htpc002Weirdhouse]

I note that the power tower northwest of the rocket landing area is still one square north (as a result of a one-square move in the last video).

[@Duny645]

I assumed that heat pipes would gradually lose heat to the environment so I built tons of heating towers so I didn't have a bunch of long runs. Looks like that's not a thing and long runs are a much cleaner setup.

[@StewardsNotes]

Heads up, the heating cost of underground belts and pipes is astronomical.

[@quazzerain7165]

Why don't you set the temperature higher than 550 or 580 at the power plants so that they can lose more temperature when you expand your pipes without shutting the power off?

[@AliceErishech]

A better idea would be to create a separate power plant dedicated explicitly to power production like others have suggested. That way he doesn't run the risk of overloading his power grid's heat generation and causing power generation to halt.

[@TheQuinn50]

first thing I did on aquilo is setup like 100 foundation makers lmao.

[@alchemicalguns]

wonder which episode you realize that belt to ground tiles take more heat than regular belt tiles by a wide margin.

[@K-o-R]

I feel like the foundry shouldn't need external heating...

[@simonnachreiner8380]

+1 although I do think things like electric furnaces and foundries should consume double power on aquilo as they're fighting to heat their inputs against a MUCH lower ambient temperature.

[@JulzKowalski]

You dont need a recycler for each factory, just setup one in the middle connected to a roboport set to work when there is an excess in the network and then have the output go into active provider chest

[@dominikvonlavante6113]

Roboports are a bad idea on Aquilo

[@JulzKowalski]

@dominikvonlavante6113 having excess recyclers uses more power than just one, not saying it would use more power, but it would save space and time for like 500kw

[@wittyharp2869]

@@dominikvonlavante6113they’re perfectly fine if you use epic robots with epic roboports. 4x the battery and 4x the charging time, perfect match for the 4x bigger battery drain there

[@mrShift_0044]

​@@JulzKowalskijust belt the crap out of them ice cubes

[@JulzKowalski]

@mrShift_0044 yeah but belts from each factory means more spaghetti and more heatpipes n all that, it saves time n space

[@guru42101]

You shouldn't need the initial lithium setup. I had more than enough from just destroying the rocks on my islands. I smelted them up to make the disks and build my initial cryo plants to create the long term lithium setup. The double recyclers at the end did work, your cryo plant didn't need to make ammonium.

[@davidjesus1397]

Why use efficiency modules 2? Am I missing something?

[@septim08]

all excess ice went to ice platform production, underground belted

[@yamtarbabayigit3328]

37:00 it works actually

[@fnot804]

I wonder if Vulcanus was supposed to be after Aquilo, so you would have to cool down the industry with liquid coolant.

[@liamholznagel8726]

You just need to offset so each output feeds into itself for the recyclers if you just need them to get rid of excess

[@duncananderson1434]

When you beat the DLC and start adding to the Master class blueprints will you update the beginning ones on Navus? And will you be doing it with rares or epics Or higher (if there is a hirgher level than epic)?

[@Liwet.]

Legendary is above epic. He hasn't researched it yet.

[@duncananderson1434]

@@Liwet. Thanks for the info but that still doesn't answer what I asked. To be honest I cansee good reasoning for both not updating and for updating the Navus builds.

[@ThePopeOfAllDope]

Finally moved that substation 😊

[@KomithEr]

how about just setting the temp limit higher for your inserters before connecting a big a chunk?

[@SpasmAtaK]

Isn't nuclear an option on this planet?

[@Liwet.]

Are the lights purposely orange?

[@tegirvaru]

what would aquilo look like without logistic bots? would be neat to see as the maybe intended design challenge. all the belts and heat pipes.

[@mrShift_0044]

it is already heavily hinted by design, since robots cannot properly work in super cold low pressure atmosphere and take loads more power to stay working, but having something on request is just way too neat for Nillaus to skip...

[@harryc5595]

I think I missed an episode or something. When did nilaus suddenly get all these rare buildings?

[@Ankh.of.Gaming]

"Off-camera mining".

[@GRACKKO]

i like the freeze idea, i don't like how it was implemented.

[@K-o-R]

"The freeze animations are super cool." They are indeed.

[@Liwet.]

Why use belts instead of bots to move ice?

[@Ankh.of.Gaming]

Bots are heavily nerfed on Aquilo, needing like 5x power to function and need recharging too often to be useful for mass logistics. You only want them to haul low volume, high value items - part of the puzzle of the planet.

[@edgar9651]

Can't you just throw away the unwanted ice over the edge?

[@edgar9651]

Why don't set the reactor temperature to maybe 700 degrees? Then even if it goes down 100 degrees that is no problem.

[@Ankh.of.Gaming]

I didn't test yet if they made it this realistic, but the hotter something is, the more energy you need to spend to keep it at that temperature (heat loss is proportional to temperature difference). So in reality, you'd want to maintain a temperature just above what you need.

[@johnmulhern3464]

goes to comment section sees a million people already pointed out that recyclers can kiss

[@decxi]

Really hoping to see a ship/space platform be called Red Dwarf in this series (:

[@DemKartal]

nice!

[@Recette_LemonG]

Aquillo seems by far like the least fun planet of the bunch.

[@mrShift_0044]

what would you add then to make it cooler? ice rides?

[@AliceErishech]

Personally I think Gleba looks the least fun. The other three are various levels of interesting but Gleba looks like a total pain to try and deal with since so many things can cause your entire factory to grind to a halt.

[@mrShift_0044]

@@AliceErishech oh no, just.... build a waste outsort belt that goes into spoliage processing. it's literally endless. On the other hand, evrything that can spoil and NEEDS to be transported off planet *is* a pain, because you literally can't stockpile any crap, it *will* rot and oh noes, 23 rocket launches worth of goods go into the burner because you didn't consumed it all fast enough. bummer.

[@Ankh.of.Gaming]

It definitely has a depressing feel, especially when starting off and you're struggling to even get power started. It also has the least amount of "content" of all the new planets (it's just the final stepping stone to get railguns and "finish" the game) but the heating puzzle inherently causing a spaghetti in your base is definitely fun (if you count triggering your OCD as "fun").

[@Ankh.of.Gaming]

@@AliceErishech Pretty sure Gleba is a hate it or love it type of planet. You hate it until you crack the puzzle. Then you also appreciate that it's also the prettiest (IMO anyway).

[@autononima]

Couldn't you just smelt the iron and copper in space and just send it down??

[@mrShift_0044]

well try that yourself!

[@ІгорЛисенко-ж9н]

Whaaaat? Foundry need to be heated outside to work? To be heated? So molten metal could not heat foundry by itself. Totally "unplayable"....

[@arielapp9469]

for the ice destroyer, you can just feed them directly into each other.

[@xxxm981]

>Foundry neets heatpipes wtf that is dumb

[@tinman7856]

If you think about it, foundries are desgined primarily for Vulcanus. on Aquilo they just have trouble to even reach working temperature.

[@mrShift_0044]

"damn, diesel engines already work super hot, why can't you just start it in -32 C° that's dumb"

[@nguyendi92]

I wish chat stop telling to build flamethrower turret and actually build Crude oil Storage tank. Bitter dont need it roght now, and loght oil is more efficient for flamethrower.

[@absentmindedjwc]

So foundries - a building that would absolutely get super hot - require heating? Literally unplayable, lol.

[@hailstorm7868]

Also weird that cryo plants need heating. They are supposed to work in the cold, should be that they cannot work near heat pipes

[@mrShift_0044]

try starting a diesel engine in a snowstorm, then tell me how it went ... if you survive without initial heat that is :)

[@mrShift_0044]

​@@hailstorm7868dide it's like saying "why nuclear reactors need radiation sheilding, they work on radiation"

[@simonnachreiner8380]

@mrShift_0044 I feel dumb engaging with a pointless contrarian reply guy but your argument doesn't work as that engine is self heating once started. Electric smelters and foundries absolutely should be heat sources on aquilo however their power draw should be doubled as they're fighting a lower ambient temperature.

[@mrShift_0044]

@@simonnachreiner8380 well, kind of, but try to implement it into the game wholefully and perfectly without making it a lagfest.

[@matthiskalble3621]

Let's get normal comments above these bots

[@crightbrayons8416]

Yikes....I really don't understand the whole bot comment thing. Is it they need algorithm interactions to do stuff? Or just trying to get traffic to their website?

[@angch]

Yeah, use more belts.

[@rederdex]

​@@crightbrayons8416 they have these pics so you click on the channel. Then I assume they have some scam links "selling content" or something. I can't be bothered to check. But that's how it used to work a few months ago at least

[@constant7131]

no comments, 26 seconds wow