Nimravids: Cats Before Cats

[@samrizzardi2213]

I wonder what their vocalisations were like. I like to imagine them, despite looking like cats, cackling like hyenas or mongooses.

[@dr.polaris6423]

That's certainly a possibility! Not sure if they could roar, but somehow I doubt that they would have done.

[@Akaryusan]

would be interesting if they had more canine like vocal tracts

[@andrewgan557]

@@Akaryusan or they make fossa like vocalization

[@anonb4632]

I suspect they could growl or snarl. Many predators can do that including household dogs and cats.

[@anonb4632]

I've just been listening to fossa noises. They sound a bit like ducks!!!

[@robwalsh9843]

I came across a Nimravis skeleton in an open air fossil exhibit in Eastern Oregon. It was not that big, it's head was only about the size of a bobcat's head. But the legs were like a cheetah. I imagine such an animal could probably outpace a greyhound.

[@dan240393]

Modern canines and felines all have a digitigrade foot arrangement which leaves them less stable but is much more efficient for energy transfer at speed. Nimravids walked with a plantigrade foot arrangement, so they'd have been much more stable on their feet and capable of supporting greater body mass, but less efficient in motion. They'd probably have had excellent instant acceleration due to the ability to support greater muscle mass, but slower over long distances due to the inefficiency of their "flat footedness" compared to canines or felines. Probably pounce or drop hunters like Leopards, rather than chase hunters like Cheetahs or endurance runners like canines.

[@Adamant1993]

In a long distance run, humans outpace any and all other species of animal, even dogs. We can cool our bodies in motion, infact our cooling system works better in motion, so our endurance is essentially limitless. It's likely one of the things that motivated canine domestication, having similar hunting techniques made dogs good hunting partners.

[@davidrichard3582]

@@Adamant1993 "limitless" is a bit of a stretch, but yeah--humans are probably the utlimate "persistance hunters."

[@slappy8941]

@@dan240393 You know bears are plantigrade, and can run really fast, right?

[@dan240393]

@@slappy8941 Yes. Over very short distances.

[@veggieboyultimate]

I guess they were “copycats” Ok I’ll leave.

[@dr.polaris6423]

:)

[@andrewgan557]

or "pseudocats"

[@beastmaster0934]

Veggieboy Ultimate Technically, True Cats would be the copycats, since Nimravids came first.

[@andrewgan557]

@@beastmaster0934 the nimravids were the rough draft while the true cats were the finalized version.

[@beastmaster0934]

@@jamessmilus321 Huh, I stand corrected

[@markdebruyn1212]

You're right, altough i prefer the true cats, the Nimravids deserve just some more recognition

[@casandramedranobock8685]

Thanks you for covering these animals, i wish these groups of carnivores were mentioned more in media.

[@dr.polaris6423]

No problem! Extinct Cenozoic mammals are very underrated in my opinion.

[@andrewgan557]

@@dr.polaris6423 yeah. most people are familiar with dinos

[@UnwantedGhost1-anz25]

​@@dr.polaris6423 I hope Apple TV after Prehistoric Planet does essentially a reboot of "Walking with Beasts."

[@matthiasfloren2610]

they're so underrated. I"m so glad you covered them in this video

[@Robert399]

What does that even mean??

[@jaredwilliams4794]

“Nimravids” has a mystical and fantasy sound to it haha. I like it

[@thedarkmasterthedarkmaster]

The Nimravids were an intresting group. Shame about their final members being in a bad place to be. Will you be covering barbourofelids in a future video? Just curious

[@dr.polaris6423]

You can count on it! I plan on covering more Paleogene mammals in future as I feel they are poorly represented in general.

[@thedarkmasterthedarkmaster]

@@dr.polaris6423 You are doing a good video series on all these extinct creatures

[@arturosiew2043]

Andrewsarchus look like giant wolves but are more related to sheep, goats and pigs. Mind blowing. Thylacomimus are sabertooth marsupial related more to kangaroo and possum

[@mhdfrb9971]

Convergent evolution are so fascinating

[@asmodai2025]

Andrewsarchus was actually more closely related to hippos, whales, and entelodonts that they are to bovids and pigs. They would have actually looked more like an entelodont/slightly hippo like in life.

[@dtxspeaks268]

​@@asmodai2025 thank you. OP comment made me cringe at the outdated disinformation

[@theharris7207]

No idea why youtube recommended this to me, but I am glad it did. A new channel to binge.

[@dr.polaris6423]

Thanks, glad you liked it!

[@lunamaria1048]

I was randomly scrolling through my subscriptions out of boredom and seen your channel and was like "Oh yeah!" and eagerly clicked lol.. As usual i wasn't disappointed!.. Great video!

[@dr.polaris6423]

Glad I could help cure your boredom!

[@professorm4171]

Strange that they couldn't adapt to the grasslands. Cats lived in jungles and grasslands.

[@emperorofgondar]

They couldn't evolve digitigrade feet fast enough.

[@robwalsh9843]

Modern cats are much more agile compared to Nimravids. They were good for what they were, but their cat cousins took it to another level.

[@coopernoble6139]

I love the coloration of the nimravid in the thumbnail and at 3:30 very pretty Edit: the dinictus at 8:50 is also beautiful, like a clouded leopard

[@lilitheden748]

The art in the video is so beautiful. It’s easy to dream away while watching these pictures. Can you imagine how this ancient world must have been like? No humans... no noise.. no pollution ... filled with magnificent creatures and plants. Something we can only dream about.

[@dr.polaris6423]

What a brilliant description!

[@57strub]

Ya. And we were just lunch.

[@andrewgan557]

luckily you didn't include the barbourofelids since they are now classified as sister taxon to the felids.

[@dr.polaris6423]

Yeah that’s why I didn’t include them.

[@andrewgan557]

@@dr.polaris6423 along with the asian linsangs which turns out were the closet relatives of the cats and they were not related to the african linsang

[@markdebruyn1212]

@@dr.polaris6423 Why not doing a video about the barbourofelids, might be interesting

[@burnsfamily8864]

@@dr.polaris6423 Ah, I was wondering why barbourofelis didn't show up.

[@CoralReaper707]

Quite possibly some of the most underrated extinct animals I have ever witnessed, and they're definitely among some of my favorites

[@vickrykayser3129]

Thank you so much for posting this! I knew very little about the different species of nimravids. Being an ailurophile, I am fascinated by these cats that were not cats!!

[@dr.polaris6423]

Wonderful! Glad you enjoyed the video.

[@stevenseta5312]

You should probably also do some research on the Barbourofelids, another group of not a cat cats.

[@anonb4632]

These must have been impressive looking beasts.

[@dtxspeaks268]

I feel like the Paleocene and Eocene had the strangest and most impressive looking beasts, such as the nimravids, andrewsarchus, titanoboa, uinatherium, megacerops, gastornis, barylambda, coryphodon, mesonycids, giant lemurs, arsinoitheroum and land whales.

[@otherpatrickgill]

it's like a David Attenborogh documentary with paleo art instead of wildlife footage. I love watching Dr Polaris late at night while struggling with insomnia. I don't find him boring - quite the opposite in fact - I find him very relaxing

[@xgomenx]

I hear ya! I'm the same, eases the stress & anxiety of insomnia very well

[@eliletts1680]

It is wild how these animals that looked and acted so much like cats did not make it into the more recent eras cats did. Perhaps the small differences make all the difference after all!

[@ARonin523]

I wanted to thank you Dr Polaris. I have watched your episodes and they not only spurred my childhood passion of learning about dinosaurs and mammals, but helped me pursue my dream of becoming a paleontologist. I have a particular fascination when it comes to bats, and the evolution of feliforms.

[@bacleedon5670]

2:22 so they are could be call Bear Cat. Are these Nimravid were counter packed with Bear Dog -Amphicyon.?

[@SA-wv6tt]

My name is Nimra 🙈 It actually means Lion in Arabic. So when I came to know that they were actually cats named Nimravids, I wonder if there is an connection b/w them 🙆

[@Xaiff]

"Lion-like", perhaps?

[@robwalsh9843]

"Nimravid" is either Latin or Greek, so I wouldn't be surprised if there might be a connection to an Arabic name. Who knows?

[@8393Robertrex]

I was wondering if it had any connection to the name "nimrod" Yk, the "great hunter" lol Knowing it means lion now, im almost positive they are

[@karenlee3372]

My husband used to call me cat is there a translation.. of the word cat. In japanese it's neko..

[@impower3134]

In Arabic tiger is named Namir and lion is named Assad

[@jamesgordon364]

6:32 short face, large crushing teeth and graceful skeleton could suggest that it was a scent tracking scavenger who covered distance to find carcasses crushing small bones with its jaws

[@MultiTomcat67]

Thanks for covering ancient ancient biology I've never heard of before IN A CAT VIDEO😻😻😻

[@DarthCuddlefluff]

You say cats before cats, I say secrets too old for the sphinx to recall.

[@Grant_Scarboro]

When cats meet nimravids... "I found you, faker!"

[@Xaiff]

Yeah, cats are just fake nimravids :D

[@brunomattos1130]

Nimravids looking at cats: -Who are you?? -I am you, but stronger

[@brunomattos1130]

@@jamessmilus321 lol, imagine correcting jokes. I never said they were the same thing. Same bodyplan, cats more evolved and sucessful

[@Fireheart318]

I bet the prehistoric internet was obsessed with these things!

[@holdthetruthhostage]

Haha 😂

[@trvth1s]

Since the permian therapsid carnivores seem to have changed very little. We don't know what gorgonopsians truly looked like, but their fossil with their saber teeth and general body plan look very similar to the fossil of more recent extinct mammals and even current carnivorans. Even bear skeletal structure looks very similar.

[@dr.polaris6423]

That's a great observation. They evidently hit on a successful formula and stuck with it.

[@trvth1s]

@@dr.polaris6423 yes good point. Theropod apex predators fossils seem to have had a larger scope of morphology after the supercontinent split

[@blobbertmcblob4888]

Ah ye, my favorite weird extinct creature. The saber-toothed kinda but not really-cat-bear.

[@MRptwrench]

The Haplophoneus and Daphoenus at 9:39 remind me of the extant Fossa and Civets of Madagascar!

[@UnwantedGhost1-anz25]

What if this genus was still around? Would they still be out competed by the true cats & dogs?

[@erichtomanek4739]

I wonder if larger nimravids roared and if smaller ones purred?

[@dr.polaris6423]

I'm not sure, but considering they were only cousins of true cats it's possible that they vocalized in similar ways to the fossa or viverrids.

[@aaronweyl2272]

@@dr.polaris6423 Or possibly just some cat like vocal.

[@PurpleRhymesWithOrange]

Love paleo and just stumbled across your channel. Excellent work, great presentation. You win a new subscriber.

[@dr.polaris6423]

Thank you!

[@jensphiliphohmann1876]

10:02 _...supported by a downward turning flange at the lower jaw._ Why did Smilodon lack such flanges?

[@pyrobeast_jack]

6:00 that's a lion from the browser game Lioden with a special marking called... shockingly... nimravis

[@micah5962]

I was not expecting to see a Lioden (A browser game) lion included in your cat examples lmao

[@JurassicDaikaiju]

Dr. Polaris: Nimravids were plantigrade. Also Dr. Polaris: shows only a single image of 1 of them being plantigrade.

[@angolomat882]

So cats copied the homework and got the better grade.

[@damouno]

A classic example of 'Convergent Evolution. A Cat like Animal but not a True Cat. ! Simply Amazing ...

[@rocketlaunchershotgunguy425]

I haven't watched ur vid in like a year!

[@dr.polaris6423]

Welcome back!

[@RajPatel-ri4zn]

It's such a shame that not even a single lineage survived until the present. I love the paleoart, but I really wonder what it would be like to see a Nimravid interact with a modern feline.

[@connorflaherty175]

Hi there. I just came across your channel and I was wondering if you were planning on doing a video covering hyaenodon and its relatives.

[@mangalvnam2010]

What was that rhino-like two horned huge herbivorous animal that appears in 3:35?

[@gergopiroska5749]

Arsinoitherium

[@johncnorris]

I wonder if there were Crazy Nimravid Ladies back then?

[@apoena-allnitemusic7203]

If they vanish right arround the uprising of the "true cats" didn't some nimravids species simply evolved into those first cats?

[@dr.polaris6423]

Nope, Nimravids are actually rather morphologically different from true cats and can only be considered distant cousins.

[@apoena-allnitemusic7203]

@@dr.polaris6423 thanks a lot for the attention

[@apoena-allnitemusic7203]

​@@dr.polaris6423 so what mammal forms preceded the true cats? Just curious

[@BJETNT]

I had never heard of these before! Great video sir!

[@3308redar]

"The nimravids are generally considered to be the most basal members of the feliform carnivorans." Aren't the viverrids the most basal forms of feliformia?

[@dr.polaris6423]

Studies seem to suggest that the African Palm Civet is the most basal living Feliform, with the Nimravids being the most basal extinct members.

[@hugoclarke3284]

Garfield is the most basal form of feliformia

[@LifeOfADeadman92]

But do they sit in boxes?

[@jonksmodels]

They sound a bit like Fossa from Madagascar.

[@DerpRulesAll]

I'm very fascinated by these creatures.

[@holy_shiite]

0:56 I thought Barbourofelis is a Nimravid?

[@CoralReaper707]

Well nowadays Barbourofelids are considered to be the sister group to the true cats

[@chrisrus1965]

Excellent video. Thanks! Disappointed waiting to learn the reason felids proved superior to nimravids. Something to do with the ear structure? Felids have better balance?

[@emperorofgondar]

Simple: plantigrade feet made them less effective at running for moderate distances, wich was crucial in more open environments wich unfortunately for the Nimravids became extremelt common during the Miocene -Pliocene boundary.

[@chheinrich8486]

Nimravids and amphocyonids are very similar groups conceptual, they both branched of from their tree in feliform and caniform respectively early and developed many adaptations convergent with their younger cosins that still live today

[@khijir2]

out standing content sir

[@dr.polaris6423]

Thanks :)

[@canis2020]

Obligatory comment for the KZbin Algorithm gods

[@Mananaut]

Such an amazing discovery this channel is. For once, thanks youTube algorithm.

[@bensantos3882]

God bless you Dr. Polaris.

[@Liphted]

I love your avatar!!!

[@dr.polaris6423]

Thanks!

[@Pixel_Entriment24]

yeah yeah .... a cat like creature with bear like movement.

[@Solomon0424]

I hope scientists bring Nimravidae cats back to life.

[@dtxspeaks268]

Their DNA is long dead so that'd be impossible. Plus they'd get outcompeted by cats and hyenas. Even living primitive feliforms like fossas, biturongs, mongooses and civets are being outcompeted by cats and hyenas.

[@Pwnagotchi-0]

It has long been my belief that nimravids are the group that tie feline and vivarids together. As vivarids have partially retractable claws. I am also reminded of the fossa of Madagascar. It too has partially retractable claws.

[@robotboy719]

I haven't been able to find any good supporting material for the claim that Quercylurus major was the size of a brown bear. The only scholarly papers I've seen state that Quercylurus could grow as large as a lion. Which is still a big animal! However, recent studies support the idea that Barbourofelids were themselves Nimravids and the largest Barbourofelids are believed to have weighed as much as brown bears.

[@Dr.Ian-Plect]

'Size of a lion' is already within the size range of brown bears, your error is having a narrow idea about the size of brown bears.

[@spacerx]

Dude. You had an illustration of Miracinonyx during the Dinaelurus discussion. lolwut?

[@nikosrakos957]

Although, they weren't that closely related to true cats, however we know that they had some kind of relation with true cats, but they were closer to barboufelidae.. Ps. Thank you for this wonderful video keep the good work sir.

[@Dr.Ian-Plect]

On what basis do you state Nimravidae is closer to Barbourofelidae?

[@nikosrakos957]

@@Dr.Ian-Plect On the state that during a new project about those two groups recently was unearthed a new species of barboufelid and according to experts they found out it was closer to nimravids. You can also find for yourself as well

[@Dr.Ian-Plect]

@@nikosrakos957 That waffle is nonsense. Barbourofelidae is closer to Felidae than to Nimravidae.

[@nikosrakos957]

@@Dr.Ian-Plect At first I thought of that too but in any case you should read first for Oriensmilus first and it's characteristics and then you can compare.

[@Dr.Ian-Plect]

@@nikosrakos957 I already checked the phylogenies before making my first comment.

[@jald6277]

What a fascinating family of animals! I agree; they deserve more recognition.

[@andromeda6712]

Some of the art in this is from an online Lion simulator game I have played bevore, very cool to see it be in a prevalent video!

[@TheoEvian]

I would definately boop the snoot

[@vickrykayser3129]

And come away with fewer fingers, lol. 😹

[@isterphys]

was just admiring all the artwork and suddenly bam, lioden png. laughing my ass off

[@Im_TheLineage]

The Moral of the Story is just because something looks the same or similar as the other one doesn’t necessarily mean that they are related. Looks can be deceiving sometimes don’t get tricked by looks

[@Dr.Ian-Plect]

The point regards degrees of relatedness, not being related at all.

[@bettybunbun9664]

Of course a much more modern example of convergent evolution of catlike features would the marsupial lions, all the more interesting because they're so much more genetically distant.

[@LDrosophila]

I would still want cuddle one even though they would bite off my face.

[@ladykoiwolfe]

This was fascinating. I love learning about felines, but getting to learn about the creatures they came from is absolutely wonderful.

[@bettybunbun9664]

They didn't come from these creatures. Did you not understand the video?

[@ladykoiwolfe]

@@bettybunbun9664 I did in fact. These creatures were an earlier attempt to fill the same niche cats would fill later. Same role, different creature, very similar body plan. The fact that they are a distinct lineage honestly just makes the whole thing cooler.

[@alegnalowe3679]

Look up jagurundsa of south america.they look alot like wesels.

[@t0mn8r35]

Very interesting as I had never heard of Nimravis before.

[@Lunishta]

Oh hey lioden

[@peterpalughi4401]

Awesome video. Thanks.

[@benmcreynolds8581]

I really love the old cat types that are like sabertooths but with smaller saber teeth so they can use them better because saber teeth can get too big then I'd imagine it would be harder to bite and open your mouth wide enough to use your saber teeth really well. So I'd prefer the mid range saber teeth cats.

[@AnnaMarianne]

When cats eat often the food enters their mouth from the side, not from the front. So the saber teeth weren't in the way.

[@Adamant1993]

It's amazing how one of our oldest companions evolved. Cats are truly amazing

[@Popebug]

This isn't a cat though.

[@MiKeMiDNiTe-77]

Thylacosmilus was a very cool looking catlike creature...super cool

[@eTraxx]

Watching this I can't help but think that ..perhaps .. I should have been a paleontologist .. fascinating ..

[@BoaConstrictor126]

Plantigrade. So basically they were to cats 🐈‍⬛ what bears 🐻 are to dogs 🐕

[@beneficent2557]

Fossa?

[@veryunusual126]

awesome videos thank you a lot 👍👍👍👍👍

[@Pwnagotchi-0]

I can not find a single plantigrade prehistoric cat model on the market. So I’m making homotherium and eventually a nimravid. Ugh

[@hamzy1989]

These guys look similar too the Thylacsmilus especially with that lower jaw

[@al20o33]

did nimravids give rise to true saber tooth cats?

[@Popebug]

Try watching the video before you ask dumb questions.

[@al20o33]

@@Popebug You might try being nicer or you will never keep or get new subscribers.

[@herohunter5961]

They were rather close relatives

[@nathanielbables8652]

Convergent evolution is remarkable thing. Makes you wonder what creatures converge with use 🤔.

[@jayvanslayer2787]

nimravids look like a precurser to the saber tooth cat

[@MrBargill]

Ironically I only learned about Nimravids a year ago(i have watched and studied a lot of prehistoric creatures)/and I find them very fansinatiing...one of natures' templates...

[@lannyblue02]

I think you could improve your videos to a great degree with some background ambient music or sounds. The video is very good and informative though

[@sirmeowthelibrarycat]

🙀 No! Please do not add any background, ie foreground, noise. Too many videos become overwhelmed by the ‘music’, much to the detriment of the narration.

[@lannyblue02]

@@sirmeowthelibrarycat im not saying loud music or anything. Just a little background ambiance. And people can focus more with ambient noise too, so its better for people who are trying to learn

[@KLeo-ss1kn]

I think the people classifying these animals are Nimrod-vids.

[@Violet-Lily]

Just a (hopefully) constructive note, the subject is fascinating, but I'm having to quit less than halfway through due to the narration. The tone is a little flat and monotonous and the vocal fry is very grating. Sorry.

[@dr.polaris6423]

Sorry about that, I think I was ill when I recorded this video. I’ll keep that in mind for the future!

[@Violet-Lily]

@@dr.polaris6423 Thanks for a very gracious reply! If ill in the future, elderflower is great for the throat, lol.

[@lyria8469]

I have infinite respect for cats.

[@mikeyd946]

MEOW-felis?

[@dr.polaris6423]

Good one!

[@akiraasmr3002]

the sabertooth cats looked like Gorgonopsids too

[@megareavermickeybot7985]

anyone else hearing Jungle book esc music in the background

[@dr.polaris6423]

Yes it is somewhat similar to the Jungle Book Theme. Look up 'Hozen Theme' if you want a listen.

[@Zabi-S]

You are mispronouncing “Machairodontine”. Otherwise, great video.

[@mymom1462]

Great Video King!

[@marthanewsome6375]

Never knew polar bears could talk or wear clothes. Bit hard to take seriously.

[@dr.polaris6423]

Sorry about that, just my silly online avatar.