And can fossilized poo prove it?

[@arthurveitch8905]

Great video. Recent studies support your claim of smilodon superiority. One study showed arctodus simus living around smilodon fatalis had a far greater preference for vegetation than they did in other parts of their range. Further, the wear on teeth of panthera atrox show greater resemblance to African cheetah while smilodon resembled today's lion. It seems both bear and lion were reluctant to eat leisurely around smilodon.

[@RealPaleontology]

Thanks! I have a copy of the second paper you refer to, which is by DeSantis et al. I think. But not sure I’m familiar with the first. I’d much appreciate it if you could give me the details of that one so as I can chase it up. Cheers.

[@arthurveitch8905]

@RealPaleontology the study is entitled Dental caries in the fossil record: a window to the evolution of dietary plasticity in an extinct bear

[@RealPaleontology]

@@arthurveitch8905 great could you tell me what the paper was?

[@arthurveitch8905]

@RealPaleontology there is this one and I'm looking for the other Was the Giant Short-Faced Bear a Hyper-Scavenger? A New Approach to the Dietary Study of Ursids Using Dental Microwear Textures Shelly L Donohue 1, Larisa R G DeSantis 1,*, Blaine W Schubert 2, Peter S Ungar 3

[@tobilikebacon]

The more southern living specimens of arctodus did in fact eat more vegetation than their northern cousins, but i doubt this had anything to do with smilodon. In brown bears today, (which share the same range) more northern populations also consume a larger amount of meat. There is a study titled: "Carnivory is Positively Correlated with Latitude among Omnivorous Mammals: Evidence from Brown Bears, Badgers and Pine Martens". Which shows clear evidence of this trend within carnivora. Therefore i would assume that Arctodus simus just like many other mammalian predators, had a varying diet based on latitude and that Smilodon probably wasn't the cause for the change in their preferred foods. As for the case of Panthera atrox, though it avoided bones when eating its prey the american lion also has the highest percentage of canine breakage among all the large carnivores in its range, including smilodon. The same study that found that P. atrox avoided bones also hypothesize that the higher percentage of tooth breakage in P. atrox, was due to it hunting larger or more prey than both extant and contemporary predators. Quoting the study: "Increased canine tooth breakage in P. atrox and S. fatalis may therefore be indicative of the consumption of larger prey during the Pleistocene, with P. atrox potentially taking down larger prey or engaging in a higher frequency of prey captures (as compared to consuming prey that have already been killed) than S. fatalis." This data doesn't show smilodon superiority but rather that P. atrox either killed larger prey or more prey than S. fatalis and that smilodon more often had to rely on scavenging. This could also explain why smilodon is more abundant at La brea, due to Smilodon favoring kleptoparasitism more often than the American lion, although there are plenty of other hypotheses on why P. atrox is so much less common at La brea.

[@tengen2251]

What about other huge prehistoric mammal predators like Megistotherium, Osteothlastes, and Amphicyon ingens? Couldn't they compete for the title of ultimate mammal super predator?

[@RealPaleontology]

They are all contenders.

[@jacksonmoore4159]

5:45 not really prehistoric predators did a biomechanical test on this and the belly biting was deemed unlikely, the lower jaw got in the way

[@RealPaleontology]

@@jacksonmoore4159 what are you talking about Jackson. I was in that documentary.

[@jacksonmoore4159]

@@RealPaleontology i know and i watched it again and again and the crash test dummy they used couldnt make the bite cuz of the lower jaw. they did an experiment with a physical prop on like a cow corpse i think it was

[@jacksonmoore4159]

@@RealPaleontology kzbin.info/www/bejne/oaC3oXaNfbqrl5Y 39:00 and youll see what im talking about, they used a crash test smilodon skull replica on a cow carcass and it couldnt penetrate the belly, larry martin also had a good point that when you wrangle a cow you never do it from behind you go to the neck.

[@RealPaleontology]

Sure, I also think it's more likely that they went for the neck. The reenactment using a model on a species that did not exist in ice Age North America on a documentary does not disprove the belly bite hypothesis.

[@TalynElliott]

It is commonly believed that meganteron is the ancestor of smilodon. Meganteron had large chin flanges but smilodon doesn't. I think there must have been a good reason for the animal to loose these thru evolution. The sabers of smilodon look to stick out at least 3 inches below the chin and they were serated. I theorize that they may have used these teeth to deal damage with the mouth closed. While wrestling with my dogs and children (they loved it) i tried imagining what it would be like to have these knives hanging below the chin, and found that in certain holds they would be very effective at causing damage, especially at the neck and behind the ribs. This seemed even more usefull when ganging up on our "prey" ( my big pitbull terrier). I think that meganteron lost the chin flanges in order to utilize the sabers with its mouth closed. Both for fighting other smilodon, and taking down prey. This would make it less likely to break its jaw. Im curious what stress tests on the skull and sabers would yield when atracking with the mouth closed. I still think a final throat bite would have been utilized to finish large prey like bison.

[@RealPaleontology]

Good point. And yes there's been a fair bit of speculation on this. Smilodon does actually have flanges, but they greatly reduced. And you're right, it would be good to do the biomechanics on this.

[@francisweller839]

I love the artwork you chose to use for Smilodon. More than that, I love seeing such an iconic creature live up to its legacy. While the short-faced bear was no doubt an intimidating competitor and scavenger, I could also see a family unit of Smilodons driving one to sit at a distance while they feed. There have even been cases of modern day Eurasian brown bears and Amur tigers sharing kills, not out of any sense of companionship or camaraderie but simply has a tense way of avoiding direct confrontation.

[@RealPaleontology]

For sure it would be a numbers game there. But certainly one on one the sabre Cat would have to back off!

[@francisweller839]

Without a doubt!

[@garymatney9344]

Now that you mentioned it how about a video on the short faced bear! Thank you sir!

[@RealPaleontology]

Not a problem. In fact I already have. Take a look at it and let me know what you think!

[@tobilikebacon]

I would argue that Homotherium should get this title even though they were certainly smaller than smilodon. In the Friesenhahn cave in texas both Homotherium serum and over 400 juvenile columbian mammoths were found. Homotherium large had serrated triangular canines perfect for cutting through flesh, and they probably hunted in packs (prides?). If a pack of Smilodon was a big game hunter, Homotherium was a huge game hunter. i rest my case.

[@RealPaleontology]

Sure. I would point out that Smilodon populator is much larger and if it too was social then it certainly had the capacity to kill larger prey. But there is no absolute right a wrong here.

[@eliletts8149]

I always read that the very biggest species of Arctotherium had already went extinct by the time Smilodon populator was alive though.

[@RealPaleontology]

There were several species of Arctotherium. The largest was A. angustidens, at this point it looks like there was at least 10,000 years of overlap between it and S. populator. Successively smaller species of Arctotherium followed.

[@eliletts8149]

@@RealPaleontology oh, okay. Yeah, was under the impression that the largest Arctotherium species that Smilodon populator would have encountered was the one that would have been about the size of a brown bear that lived later in the Pleistocene epoch. Thanks for your feedback!

[@marknunya3107]

@@RealPaleontology”successively smaller species followed…” Well gee, I wonder why? 😂

[@integrativemedicinegroup4356]

I would be truly grateful if the esteemed Professor could create a video about Panthera fossilis spelaea, the largest cat to have ever walked the Earth.

[@DVOWRR]

I enjoy people like you, aspirations towards the past and genuine love and connection with it. Im not sure if you deserve it or not but I do appreciate you, thanks for the knowledge

[@RealPaleontology]

I'm going to take that as a compliment, so thank you!

[@RealPaleontology]

I'm going to take that as a compliment, so thank you!

[@GullibleTarget]

​@RealPaleontology 😂 im not sure either. Maybe you had to prove yourself more? I wonder if they are clear on whether you are deserving of their appreciation, yet. But you have mine. Unequivocally. Totally. Definitely and maybe...romantically. 😂 Don't mind me; I'm in an extremely silly mood.

[@8888Rik]

I met Akersten when I was visiting ISU in the 1980s to do some of my own research (I'm a now-retired evolutionary biologist and anatomist). He was a really nice fellow, and we talked about his research on Smilodon, since I had already read his mongraph.

[@RealPaleontology]

@@8888Rik yeah he's a really nice guy

[@8888Rik]

@@RealPaleontology At the time, I was deeply involved in functional anatomical research, and was enthralled by the elegance of the work by Farish Jenkins, whose publications I thought were the epitome of scientific beauty, and also (for some reason) enamored of multituberculates. Jenkins had published on them, and I told Akersten that his Smilodon monograph reminded me of Jenkins' style. He was of course very pleased by that, which made our interactions very positive.

[@RealPaleontology]

@8888Rik indeed Jenkins was a giant that would be a great compliment to anyone in this field!

[@samrizzardi2213]

I'd love to hear your takes on _Crocuta spelaea/ultra_ . There seems to be a lot of uncertainty over whether or not it is a unique species or a subspecies of spotted hyena

[@RealPaleontology]

I'll look into it

[@codiegames351]

Wow this was so insightful. I am a big fan of Professor Wroe's work!!!

[@RealPaleontology]

Glad you enjoyed it!

[@RealPaleontology]

Thank you very much! It is appreciated. Quite a lot of work goes into these so is good to know that people are getting something out of it.

[@Clearlight201]

Even human behaviour can give us a big hint towards the likely target of Smilodon's canines: In prison if they really want someone dead quickly using a shank they will target the neck. Without the benefit of scientific analysis it seems a no-brainer to an ignorant no brainer like me that those teeth are meant to stab into a neck and cause fatal injuries to arteries and airways. Much more chance of canines breaking or causing a non-fatal injury when used to attack the stomach of a struggling prey. I also think the group attack makes much more sense with large powerful prey: chances of injury or death are high, but if one Smilodon is killed while many others get a huge meal to eat it is still worth the risk for a social group. Thanks for the excellent presentation. Subscribed right away!

[@RealPaleontology]

Thanks and Glad you agree!

[@comfortablynumb9342]

@@Clearlight201 those teeth might have separated vertebrates in the spine too.

[@vladline1882]

There's a smilodon skull that got penetrated by another smilodon Sabre through the skull.

[@RealPaleontology]

Yes, actually there are two Smilodon populator skulls that appear to have been penetrated by the upper canine of another Smilodon, although it remains possible that these perforations in the skull were caused by giant ground sloths.

[@aamil93]

Were not there some nimravids or barbourifelids with the same kind of wounds?

[@kaz6916]

Isn't there also a homind skull of some sort with tooth marks from a sabertoothed cat? I'm thinking, if that is what the specimen shows, that the wounds might have been sustained in some sort of chaotic interspecies dispute (like over a carcass or something) vs skull biting being an actual method a sabertooth would habitually employ in dispatching prey. As far as the populator skulls....honestly the marks being the result of a Smilodon getting smacked upside the head by a giant sloth is almost *more* intriguing than the intraspecific combat possibility haha

[@RealPaleontology]

@@kaz6916 yes, it's a hominid skull from Dmanisi bitten by Megantereon. And yes, they wouldn't typically bite the skull of prey

[@RealPaleontology]

Yes, that’s right, it’s a hominid skull from Dmanisi. Bitten by a Megantereon. And I this totally agree it’s most unlikely that they would have regularly tried to bite the skull of their prey.

[@sinkhole777]

Excellent doco mate, fearsome beast. Could that be a good old Aussie drop bear I see on the wall behind you!😊

[@RealPaleontology]

Thanks! And yes that sure is a good old-fashioned Aussie drop bear.

[@Nigel_BC]

What about non-carnivoran mammalian hypercarnivores like megistotherium or any hyenadont.

[@RealPaleontology]

@@Nigel_BC yep, I've done at least three but I will be doing more stay tuned

[@thomaszaccone3960]

Neanderthal was the mammalian superpredator.

[@RealPaleontology]

They were certainly up there! We'll look at humans as super-predators in an upcoming video.

[@Tigerbearwolf8600]

Another great video, thank you. I can’t wait for bears, my favourite modern and prehistoric animals.

[@RealPaleontology]

Yup, we will definitely look at some bears.

[@vincentx2850]

I would like to see a video on the "other" sabertooth, the leggy Homotherium. It seems like a very different animal, and has a truly expansive fossil range both in terms of geography and in time.

[@RealPaleontology]

Hi, and yep, rest assured that the Homotherium is on the list. And you're right, it was definitely doing something different.

[@z1az285]

​​@@RealPaleontologywhile not directly related to your video, one species of homotherini (xenosmilus ) was more likely to employ a belly bite than smilodon because of the damage its battery of incisors could do. But considering it was most likely an ambush predator it would have targeted the neck firs. , since the primary objective of any predator would be to incapacitate its prey rapidly, so a neck bite would be preferred. unless there is evidence to the contrary

[@RealPaleontology]

@@z1az285 Yep, that’s a reasonable argument for Xenosmilus. Certainly I agree that it would be more likely to go for the belly than Smilodon, but I still think it’s a risky tactic for any big cat.

[@PastorDuncan-v1l]

What if they were actually a bit more like elephants, with them beim more like tusks? (I'm not high).

[@RealPaleontology]

I don't think so, they are a very different shape to the tusks of the authors

[@jabbarmuhammad]

One of my favorite prehistoric predators next to the Giants short faced bear

[@RealPaleontology]

Mine too!

[@maxamillion499]

Brilliant vid, we need more fossilized poo to point us in the right direction. If we had proof of what it mostly ate as a populous, then we can try and work out how it would kill such prey. I would love to see a model or a generated image of such a cat opening and closing its mouth! I cant get over it placing anything past or impaling those canine's into something!! They are so extra!!! LOL!! That jaw has to open past 90 degrees to allow the creature to bite? And why is the rib cage so short and the bones so thick? To anchor some serious muscles, I would guess. Keep up the good work, fascinating stuff.

[@RealPaleontology]

Thanks! And yes Smilodon could almost certainly open its mouth to 90° or more, Thylacosmilus had an even wider gape.

[@danghoang8457]

Hi professor, this is a bit tangental of a question but do you think Dromaeosaurid dinosaurs, especially large ones like Utahraptor, could’ve used their sickle claws in a similar manner to how dirk toothed sabertooths used their sabers? I.e. striking at vitals such as prey’s throat. In Utahraptor, the ungual is abt 20 cm long so maybe 26-30 cm with the keratin sheath which I believe exceeds S. populator’s canine crown height. Of course a keratin claw would be nowhere near as hard as enameled fangs but constant growth could help maintain an edge and the shear brute force of a theropod leg (ostriches and cassowaries for example) may well make the difference.

[@RealPaleontology]

It certainly has been argued that dromaeosaurids used this claw in such a way, but the consensus at the moment seems to be that they used it to secure prey and bold it while they tore at it with their teeth. It is thought that terror birds had similar behaviours. I cover this in my episode on terror birds.

[@danghoang8457]

⁠@@RealPaleontologythanks for the response! I am aware of the RPR hypothesis but I do have some personal reservations about it. For one, to use a topical comparison, unlike the canine shear bite morel, this model was suggested by Fowler et al. (2011) based on some fairly sound anatomical comparisons but not really supported by any major mechanical analyses that I can find except Bishop (2019) but the findings of that study also supports other models including stabbing. No FEA studies though that I can find and I think that could be quite revealing because, just superficially, Dromaeosaur second unguals are a lot flatter than raptor unguals and have less prominent flexor tubercles. So while maybe not as extreme, I feel like assuming a very similar function for their claws and bird of prey claws might be like assuming a similar function for the canines of sabertooth and conical tooth cats?

[@RealPaleontology]

You raise some interesting points and I have to say that I'm not especially wed to any hypothesis in particular on this question. There was FEA done in a 2009 paper I think on the claw in velociraptor. From memory it supported the climbing hypothesis. I'll chase it up tomorrow. But again I'm just reporting the published science here. Remain open to ideas on this one.

[@danghoang8457]

@@RealPaleontologyi would also have to check but off the top of my head I think that paper looked at a manus claw? Though the sickle claw and associated digit of Deinonychus has been compared to the claw and digit of trunk climbing birds, specifically woodpecker. I do think that a climbing function is mechanically more similar to a kicking/stabbing function than a grappling one (as most of the forces applied will be in the dorsiventral or longitudinal plane rather than the mediolateral one). Ig a caveat is that cats also have laterally compressed claws good for climbing and also for grasping but they’re also much much stouter than either the manual or pedal claws of Dromeosaurs.

[@RealPaleontology]

You’re right, it was on the manus. But as you probably know the same author (Manning) had previously assessed the function of the hypertrophied pedal claw using a robotic model and concluded that it was for climbing. Pretty neat study I must say. But as you say, it could be a dual purpose feature. Moreover, most predators, they probably had different attack modes for different prey. Again, as I’m sure you’re aware, the claw modelled was repeatedly stuck in the skin pig carcass, and basically bounced off crocodile hide. On the other hand, we know for sure that cassowary can kill a human with a well directed slashing kick….

[@johnypsilantis2442]

Incredible video. Thank you for sharing your knowledge professor. Speaking of giant killers, what are your thoughts on Homotherium being one? Especially the early Crenatidens subspecies that co-existed with some of the largest terrestrial mammals of all time. The multitude of young proboscidean skeletons in Texas suggest at least a localized preference for them and recent studies on its genome point towards a social endurance hunter.

[@RealPaleontology]

Hi, thanks heaps. Personally, I certainly think that it regularly took big prey, and was probably pretty social. But to be honest I think the authors of that paper stretch things way beyond their data to conclude that it was an endurance hunter.

[@johnypsilantis2442]

@RealPaleontology Thank you very much for responding, professor. I'm looking forward to your next videos.

[@RealPaleontology]

No worries. I just posted a new video an hour ago.

[@andyhatch5818]

Awesome video

[@RealPaleontology]

Thanks!

[@petrairene]

Great video!

[@RealPaleontology]

Thanks heaps!

[@bernardedwards8461]

Modern predators such as stoats, polecats, martens, falcons and some big cats go for the neck to finish off their prey, so you are probably right about the smilodon.The clouded leopard has exceptionally long canines among modern cats, but I am not sure what killing technique it uses. Being a rainforest predator spending most of its time in the tree tops it is a difficult animal to observe.

[@RealPaleontology]

Yep, Per Christiansen has published some interesting stuff on the clouded leopard. And yup, there's no real info on how it kills. But whatever it does kill, is not that big. When killing smallish prey, cats typically crush the back of the skull, or use their canines to separate neck vertebra. The Jaguar is most powerful bite for its size among cats, and will crush the base of the skull and even quite large animals such as tapirs.

[@bernardedwards8461]

@@RealPaleontology Clouded leopards do much of their hunting in ther trees and there are few large animals up there, so its mostly monkeys, sqirrels and that sort of thing, but I think they are capable of killing a medium sized deer as big or bigger than themselves.

[@MAGAman-uy7wh]

How sharp was the interior edge of the saber teeth? I can imagine the cat could sink the sabers into prey and use it's own weight and muscle to cut through enough tissue to cause a massive wound causing the prey animal to bleed out. A "belly bite" may have been the preferred technique

[@RealPaleontology]

They were pretty darn sharp! Certainly I don't rule a belly bite out. It may have used both techniques depending on the prey.

[@anditwasknownas]

Amazing video! Did their canids protude from the lips? Do we know that?

[@RealPaleontology]

Yes, they definitely would have.

[@erikringdal844]

I once read that statistics on american sabertooth breakage was around 20-30 percent, but worn edges, indicating survival in a pack. Always good with an extra soldier ! Personally I doubt that they preyed on elephants, except on occasion. The Elephant concept appear to be outgrowing predators, and as they breed slowly, they cannot bounce back their numbers quickly. Against this speak that a friend of mine pointed out that a group of smilodon had been identified as killers of elephants!! I am impressed that they could chew on giant sloth bones, whether they killed it or not, perhaps now have a plausible reason for sloth osteoderms. I had for 50 years a book: Animal mechanics, Gave it away 5 months ago, moving, have to scale down, regrets

[@RealPaleontology]

Hi Eric. Yup, I agree that whether or not they regularly preyed on proboscideans is an open question. But whether or not they were physically capable of it is beyond doubt, particularly Smilodon populator. If they were in fact social animals then even adult proboscideans would have been fair game. Certainly there is undisputed evidence that a few African lion prides have taken to regularly preying on elephants in Botswana. I've spoken with a game warden who has witnessed it on more than one occasion, and I've seen video of it. Have to say it's really awful to watch. I'm not trying to say that Smilodon did regularly kill such massive beasts, only that it was definitely physically capable of it. That book sounds really interesting, I might see if I can get a copy?

[@erikringdal844]

The first edition of the book was around 1960 , I had a newer edition, gave it to my vet, who a few days later insulted me!

[@erikringdal844]

Searched for animal mechanics book on the net, not my book, but a lot of good stuff out there, not expensive

[@gwynplane723]

The lion called, he would like to have a word with you about that super predator claim.... Lol, but, in all seriousness.....I think if there's ANY terrestrial predator that deserves the title of greatest super predator of all time, it's the lion..... The lion hunts and kills animals who reach sizes comparable to the largest Ice Age megafauna. I know a lot of people will say that it's because it hunts in groups, but lone lions regularly kill adult buffalo and even giraffe on a fairly regular basis with some exceptional instances of them taking down full grown hippo. The largest ground sloths were huge to be sure but they probably only got as big as a very large white rhinoceros (4 to 5 tons at most)........Besides, if ground sloths were in Africa they would be be mince meat for lions because they were too slow and cumbersome to survive the onslaught... Also, a lion would utterly destroy a sabretooth in a fight. It has greater agility, a thick mane to protect it from bites and scratches and a much greater bite force. Notice how the ancestors of Smilodon the Megantereon went extinct in Africa and later Eurasia when lions first appeared on the scene? Sabretooths persisted in America for so long because it took longer for lions to get there and it's very telling how the South American smilodon species was far larger than the North American variety due to the fact that NO lions were present. The lion is pretty much the sabretooth but better.

[@RealPaleontology]

Well I never argue with lions

[@flashgordon3715]

Liked and shared.

[@evilcow666]

Its nice to here about smilidon. I remember a paper suggesting smilidon ate deer and tapirs. I thought wouldnt smilodon be overkill to kill a deer? especially a group. Do we know approximately how much of it was made up of young elephants and the like?

[@RealPaleontology]

I do think they would have killed deer, but that larger game would have been preferred.

[@StephenSternforPresident]

Did you know the millennium falcon could outrun imperial Starfleet in 12 parsecs

[@RealPaleontology]

I did not know that.

[@kaz6916]

Naturally large prey would have been Smilodon's preferred targets but if forced by circumstances to subsist on small prey like rabbits or rodents etc I kind of wonder, if it could have captured such small animals, how Smilodon would have even dispatched them. Just driving the canines through the body wall? Or perhaps something less obvious like crushing the prey against the ground with the heavily muscled forelimbs...or perhaps in that case the prey would have simply been immobilized with the forelimbs and eaten alive, as with hawks or the hypothesis proposed for Dromaeosaurs ("Raptor Prey Restraint"). Modern big cats can administer a skull or nape bite on small prey to kill it quickly but Smilodon doesn't appear very well suited to that method.

[@RealPaleontology]

Yup. I agree that they would have tried to take prey as small as rabbits in desperation. But try is the operative word here. They were just too heavily built and bearlike to be any good at it.

[@johnscanlon8467]

Hi Steve, given that the bite was largely driven by neck muscles, has anyone considered the possibility the sabres were used for killing with the mouth closed? There are snakes that regularly use fangs that way (Atractaspis) so maybe it takes a herpetologist to think of it.

[@RealPaleontology]

Hi John, great to hear from you mate! And thanks for the info re Atractaspis. I didn't know that! The idea that Smilodon attacked with its mouth closed certainly isn't a silly one, but personally I wouldn't rated it. This is because with its mouth shut the canines length would have been substantially shorter than the canines of a similar sized conical toothed cat. Consequently, I really don't think they could have done much damage, as even the canines of a lion or tiger do little actual damage and often don't even pierce the skin of large prey. Cheers, Steve

[@erikklee743]

Is it possible the Smilodon used it canine to bite through the neck and cut the carotid artery. The massive shoulders and front feet could hold the prey, then the Smilodon could bite through the neck and cut the carotid. In cross section, the bite of the Smilodon appears to have a gap between the closing teeth that could surround and cut the carotid. Does this make sense?

[@RealPaleontology]

Yes, absolutely. Depending on precisely where it applied the bite it could have severed this as well as the windpipe. Killing the prey very quickly.

[@erikklee743]

@@RealPaleontology Exactly! Many thanks. BTW I am a zoologist, and very interested in paleontology.

[@paleo-zoo-keeper-association]

This is definitely fascinating, thank you for this video. It would definitely inspire research for future videos in my channel :) Also, where did you get that thylacoleo head on your wall?

[@RealPaleontology]

Thank you. A guy called Jeff Johnson made that and he did an excellent job! It was based on the cast of an actual skull that I sent to him, so you know that it's accurate.

[@paleo-zoo-keeper-association]

@@RealPaleontology You're welcome and good deal :)

[@villageidiot641]

suggestions: Simbakubwa kutokaafrika Hyaenodon gigas Andrewsarchus mongoliensis Purussaurus brasiliensis Amphicyon ingens Daeodon shoshonensis Barinasuchus arveloi Arctodus simus Jaekelopterus rhenaniae Mosasaurus beaugei Inostrancevia Pliosaurus

[@RealPaleontology]

Those are definitely on my to do list.

[@gerrimilner9448]

bone and bone marrow especially, are highly nutritious, containing trace elements, not all of the 'pride' would get to eat the offal, so eating bones for the extra nutrients. if the sample came from a pregnant female bones would be an essential food item, which many mammals eat while pregnant.

[@RealPaleontology]

Marrow is definitely highly nutritious. That Smilodon is not well adapted to crack big bones. It has been suggested that early humans accessed marrow from scavenged carcasses using stone tools, and that this may have been important in human evolution.

[@Davidj-r8l]

Steve I've seen videos and books with pictures of smilodon populater skulls and it looks different almost egg shaped like a bull terrier.anything on why there like this .I thought it might be something like I seen on the biggest lyger

[@RealPaleontology]

I'd look at reconstructions by Mauricio Anton.

[@RealPaleontology]

Mauricio is not just a great artist but a great anatomist too

[@Hopewell51]

Could the teeth have been in some sort of sheath so that the teeth were protected and stabilized?

[@RealPaleontology]

Certainly this is thought to be the case for a number of sabertooth species. But Smilodon lacks the mandibular flanges that would be necessary for this

[@areitikeyks]

It is possible they kept their mouth shut and slam their head on a vulnerable spot while pulling back? Provides stability to the teeth, instead of a crushing grip, more relying on its massive shoulder and forearms to grapple prey down, hold it, and the huge neck muscles swinging that head down like a hatchet? A group dynamic would make sense in that scenario as well ; many hold the prey while one comes to a vulnerable soft point to give it a good pop.

[@RealPaleontology]

Maybe? But for sure they had to make sure the prey was properly restrained before they sunk those canines in.

[@rubric-eo5yj]

hey man i only ran into your channel today,i just want to say that smilodon populator has some serious competition in size,we have the panthera leo fossilis,machirodus horribilis,machirodus lahayashipup,machirodus kabir .Also there is amphimachirodus giganteus which has the highest weight estimate of any cat at 480kg so i don't know.but i think that machirodontid cats in general would out weigh pantherine cats due to their much more robust body plan.So what's your opinion?.Also i would like to see a video on Homotherine sub family of sabre toothed cats as they were far more diverse than smilodontini

[@RealPaleontology]

Yo. Yup, these are all way big cats! Two things here though, it depends on whether you're looking at absolute maximum estimate sizes or averages. And some estimates are way more reliable than others. The best are estimates are derived from the minimum circumferences of the humerus and femur. These have been used for populator, but not the other species you mention. But certainly it's possible that any of these may have been larger on average. We'll need more data to be sure.

[@davidoldacre]

very good video , smilodon was a mean , and very strong predator . not the sort of thing you would want to meet on a dark night . the short faced bear was even worse .

[@RealPaleontology]

Thank you!

[@lostarrow861]

The Clouded leopard, while a very small cat is the only extant sabre tooth cat, having the longest canines in relation to skull / body size of any cat species. Could their prey killing technique be used as a scaled down example of how the extinct sabre toothed cats employed their fangs?

[@RealPaleontology]

They are very long canines! I have the cast of a clouded leopard skull on my desk. It would be very interesting to have some information on how they kill their prey, unfortunately the cat itself is rarely seen, and pretty much nothing is known of its predatory behaviour. Hopefully this will change!

[@8888Rik]

I was just about to mention Neofelis. I've seen one or two skulls, and those canines are quite impressive.

[@RealPaleontology]

@8888Rik they are indeed I've got a replica skull on my desk

[@pumaconcolor2855]

1:30 Aren't Ngandong tiger, Panthera fossilis and Machairodus horribilis in that same weight range?

[@RealPaleontology]

Hi, and yep, it’s possible that these three species overlapped with S. populator in weight. But none of them was clearly as well adapted to take relatively large prey. Machairodus horribilis is particularly interesting, Jack Tseng described a new complete skull in 2016. He came up with the body mass estimate of 405 kg. This is below the maximum suggested for S. populator. But again the main reason that I think populator deserves the ultimate super predator tag is that it is more clearly adapted to take relatively large prey. Jack concluded that Machairodus horribilis was less well adapted for this than most other sabertooths.

[@pumaconcolor2855]

@@RealPaleontology Oh I see, Thank you for your answer. By the way thank you for sharing your knowledge with us paleontology enthusiasts.

[@chancegivens9390]

First time on the channel, and I wanted to ask if you heard about S.populator hunting caiman.

[@RealPaleontology]

Hi, no, I'm not aware of any evidence that.

[@chancegivens9390]

I mean... it's surtainly possible. Smilodon had all the right equipment, though if they did hunt caiman, I'd imagine that'd be more of a fatalis thing, more meat for the smaller beast at all that.

[@chestfullosixes5808]

Hot take... The Smiladon isn't "biting" per se. Watch a modern lion on the back of a larger prey item it latches on and tries to "bite" yet no effective bites are delivered until the animal is exhausted. Now... Imagine a Smiladon latching on not biting yet driving its Saber teeth mouth closed using its muscular neck to assist in the latching motion ? Two large powerful arms and hooked in with mouth closed and crushing force ?

[@RealPaleontology]

Possibly. I suspect that it used more than one technique depending on the prey.

[@framerofworlds9984]

I wonder what the interaction between Felis Atrox and Smilodon was like.

[@RealPaleontology]

It certainly would have been interesting! Both species certainly interacted, are known from the la Brea Tar Pits. The lion definitely had a larger brain. It might also depend on which was the more social species. The jury is still out on this...

[@framerofworlds9984]

@@RealPaleontology Its would be interesting if Sabretooths were pack hunters to, it would mean that Dire wolves, American Lions and Sabretooths were a pack hunters. Perhaps out of a need to deal with the Short-faced bear.

[@RealPaleontology]

@@framerofworlds9984 it would be interesting. Although it is still not clear just how social dire wolves and the American lion were. The dire wolf isn't closely related to the gray wolf, and it had a relatively small brain.

[@matthewadams1674]

Slight correction, the American Lion was Panthera atrox, not Felis atrox

[@crocutus]

I noticed you don't include polar bears in your comparisons. Any reason for that?

[@RealPaleontology]

I include the polar bear in the episode on the giant shortface bear

[@paulcallicoat7597]

I see the most ultimate predator that ever lived and is still alive every time I look into a mirror. How much longer we continue to survive is questionable because most humans don't eat the food we evolved to eat: Proper Human Diet which is mostly made of red meat and more importantly the fat .When on a PHD the degenerative ailments such as diabetes,heart disease,mental illnesses,MS,cancers of every type are just not a problem. When humans started to eat more plants and less animals the body size degenerated but the numbers surviving into childhood did increase. We lost over 30% of our brain size and our mouths became pinched with crowded teeth and loss of teeth to decay caused by sugars. Many graves of humans from the early stage of the agriculture show the degeneration of human physiology within a thousand years.

[@RealPaleontology]

Yep, I don't think there's any doubt that prehistoric humans and even the few hunter gatherers still around, can be classified as super predators. I'll do a video on this later.

[@comfortablynumb9342]

It makes no sense to evolve big saber like teeth for a scavenger. Those teeth are for dispatching prey. I think the teeth were used to pierce necks or strangle prey. If you watch big cats taking animals now they tend to go for the neck or throat with the teeth and hold on with their claws. I don't see why ancient cats with big teeth would have been very different. They hunted bigger critters and had to be bigger but hunting is hunting.

[@RealPaleontology]

I agree!

[@mypetvelociraptor]

❤

[@RealPaleontology]

Thank you

[@yousafxai4429]

What if when the smilodon had short canons when active but when got old due to high ca in body these canons grow rapidly and died slowly due to Hugh body fats so fossilized for us to see today. If there are many fossils surely will have some smilodons with broken cannons otherwise the fossilized survived till old age or died young due to these teeth. Just a hypothesis. I am not a paleontologist and nephrologist. But that’s what came to my mind. The horns of dear some penetrate their skull and dies. Same maybe happened to them. They maybe had power to prey but within a short span. Then died miserably due to the the cyber tooths

[@RealPaleontology]

Yes, there are many Smilodon fossils with at least one broken canine. Some seem to survived for considerable period, despite this disability. It's another reason why some palaeontologists are convinced that Smilodon was a social animal.

[@timpenfield5]

The new science on this is the smile was weak, weak jaws, a scavenger basically. This is disappointing for me, and is it believable ??? Great vid, BUT, IF YOU WERE NOT THERE, CAN U REALLY KNOW? Could a smilee have a weak bite? and survive?

[@RealPaleontology]

Glad you like it! I think you might be getting Smilodon mixed up with Thylacosmilus, the South American marsupial sabertooth. Christine Janis, a friend of mine, wrote a paper not long ago arguing that Thylacosmilus was a scavenger. I disagree with her on that as do most other researchers. It definitely had a weak bite, I’ve published papers showing this. But like Smilodon it had a very powerful neck. So it could drive those big canines in using the neck muscles. That’s what I think, but you’re right, without a Time Machine we can never be hundred percent certain.

[@LuisAldamiz]

Who drew the thumbnail? I'll bet it was AI and definitely not any real paleontologist or biologist, because I'm pretty sure that such partial melanism, while looking very cool, is biologically unreal.

[@RealPaleontology]

Pretty sure it wasn't AI. The artist is in the credits somewhere. I know they use the term melanistic, and you're right such partial melanism may be unlikely. But such coloration could have arisen by other means. And actually reminds me of some darker clouded leopards I've seen.

[@LuisAldamiz]

@@RealPaleontology - OK, human artist then. Don't get me wrong: the beast is absolutely pretty... but totally unrealistic. Clouded leopards? OK, maybe has a ring to it. Did smilodon packs live in the jungle? Hmmm...

[@derekpierkowski7641]

👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻

[@RealPaleontology]

Thank you!

[@ericdubert5983]

Yes, the Sabre-toothed bearcat! We agree there. Now lemme help ya with the killing method. Write a paper. I just want to know I was right. ;) Much of what I know is based on what I hear from you all. They lived in prides and hunted collectively. Massive forearms and large highly leveraged anchor points in the hind limbs for jumping and bear large claws with feline sharpness. The teeth are also given to roles, perhaps in organized ambushes. Rear shearing teeth were for feeding. Front teeth, somewhat separated from the sabers, may have been for multiple purposes, but in hunting they would have likely been used for holding and pinning prey with the aid of claws and they're weight. They were wrestlers that overpowered their prey and held it still while the lead would insert the killing bite. The low bite pressure would not suffice for penetrating the thick skins of pachyderms and other supersized prey animals in the age of wool and thick coats and hides. They would in a fashion like a can opener, holding their prey still with claws fixed, set the sabers at the injection point, the lower jaw perhaps hooking into the animal to form an anchor and fulcrum and with its hind legs lifting transmitting the force through the massive neck muscles and upper skull to drive the canine teeth home in a killing bite. Specific placement may have varied species to species but the back of the neck with the sabers inserted into the side the way soldier train to insert knives into sentries from behind making primary use of the point rather than the cutting edge of the knife from the front. Loose skin of many lumbering prey animal would have likely protected the fronts of necks to such attacks, but the vertebral structure and neck muscles of would have negated the effect allowing for thousands of pounds of pressure to be applied to the injection site, severing the throat and jugular making it a race between blood loss and suffocation to determine the actual cause of death that wouldn't be too quick. Other injection sites might be through the eyes into the brain, lizard portion of the brain, spinal column consistent with some species today, anchoring along the spinal ridge with the bite delivered to the lung on the side. I lean toward soft tissue areas of the side of the neck as teeth-to-bone damage may likely be present and this mystery would be solved. I'd love to hear more on this. Great show!

[@RealPaleontology]

Awesome and thanks Eric! Great to see that this has really got you thinking! And very descriptive. There is definitely something there I can use!

[@RealPaleontology]

PS I'm just about to upload a video on the tyrant lizard King. Hope you like it.

[@Danny-mg1hu]

what about the Borneo Tiger! it could be the prehistoric largest cat. also the American Lion is not the largest no more. largest cat of all time is the Liger. so far no prehistoric cat grew larger than it.

[@RealPaleontology]

Yep, I agree that there may have been a bigger, but if so not much bigger, and definitely not as well armed.

[@freyala024]

The largest liger was around 415-420kg, that's still below the maximum weight estimates for both the American Lion and Smilodon Populator, also these ligers are only that heavy due to being overweight while the extinct cats were pure muscle.

[@gravitydefyingturtle]

While Smilodon and its relatives are certainly impressive, I think that calling them the greatest mammalian super-predator is ignoring A LOT of viable contenders. In terms of historical mammals, Smilodon may only win because we know so much more about them than other possibilities, such as the creodonts or mesonychids. Andrewsarchus may have fallen from its mighty pedestal of a few decades ago, but that doesn't mean I'd bet money against a Hyaenodon, if it was thrown into a ring with Smilodon. I also think you are ignoring marine mammals. If you really want to talk about the greatest mammalian superpredator, Livyatan is probably your man. A sperm whale that hunted other whales? Suddenly, Smilodon looks a lot less impressive. And modern orcas may have had something to do with Livyatan's extinction, so don't discount them either.

[@RealPaleontology]

Hi. And yep, I see your point re Hyaenodon. Weight estimates for this beast vary though. Most put it at less than S. populator. However, among creodonts, Megistotherium osteothlastes definitely was heavier than the big saber-cat. And it was definitely a true hyper-carnivore too, so it's certainly a contender. My rationale for rating S. populator higher than any hyaenodont is that in my view it is more clearly specialised to take down prey much larger than itself. As I'm sure you know, there were saber-toothed creodonts, but none were as large as populator, nor were they as derived, e.g., non-retractable claws, smaller 'sabers'. But of course, people weigh criteria differently. If body mass is your no. 1, then a beast like Megistotherium osteothlastes takes the cake. I'm not trying to argue that your wrong. Just that we're weighting our criteria differently. Similarly one could argue that a polar bear is the ultimate-super-predator among living terrestrial species. It's a hyper-carnivore and certainly it's the heaviest. But it's not clearly adapted to take prey bigger than itself, so by my criteria, the big cats win this one. I apply the same reasoning to marine macro-predators, Livyatan was a monster and definitely killing other whales, but not whales much larger than itself.

[@gravitydefyingturtle]

@@RealPaleontology Ah, now I better understand your selection criteria.

[@paolopasaol9700]

While I'm no expert paleontologist, I strongly believe that Smilodon canines were covered in some sort of reinforced mineral that made them less prone to breakage than what is believed. Kinda similar to the tusks of elephants and walruses but to a less potent degree. So much that decomposition had a hand in altering them.

[@RealPaleontology]

This may be true, I hope someone looks into it.

[@ltlwlwl5057]

❤️🤍💙

[@RealPaleontology]

Glad you like it!

[@RodisyourGodnow]

Can you make a video on dire wolves please

[@RealPaleontology]

Yep, I am to do this, but not sure when.

[@damongaudette5618]

...they are depicted to look like hyeanas.

[@RealPaleontology]

Similar colour in this reconstruction, but very different teeth!

[@douglasclerk2764]

Well spotted.

[@justinlowe5678]

He ain’t populating fortunately or unfortunately no more

[@RealPaleontology]

unfortunately......