Nintendo Gets Caught! GTA V May Save Palworld...Weird But True

[@echosx]

I would argue the trap from Ghostbusters would be another example of prior art

[@jgorres]

Not in 3D space, but should that really matter?

[@VideoGameEsoterica]

Similar idea just in 2D

[@VideoGameEsoterica]

It does in this instance

[@ShadyFurball1]

@@VideoGameEsoterica What about the Ghostbusters game that came out in 2009? en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghostbusters:_The_Video_Game

[@echosx]

There was quite a few ghostbuster video games as examples. Let’s help invalidate patents…

[@n64fan60]

"Throwing a ball into a 3D space that affects characters in that 3D space." Is this not also a description of what happened anytime I threw a frag grenade at enemies in the original Half-Life, back in 1998?

[@VideoGameEsoterica]

It’s a description of basically half of video games lol

[@ShardDeVir]

Even System Shock 2 fits description.

[@dizzyheads]

Time to sue dog owners too while at it

[@kiertopaz]

baseball games cause in same you can hit the player or hitting the ball a space is affected in any way

[@Kakarot64.]

​@@dizzyheads That's different with Dogs instead of throwing a ball to capture and tame them they train you to throw the ball for their amusement (especially Collies they're Canine mad scientists with mind control rays)

[@naberu]

"Throwing a ball and affecting the virtue field"...By that logic, these are also included: 1. Any baseball video game (this is especially effective, Japan is big on baseball) 2. Any FPS video game involving throwing a grenade 3. Any monster catching video game that involves you throwing bait to catch monsters

[@VideoGameEsoterica]

Haha exactly

[@TerraFuu]

Oh this is delicious. Gonna buy Palworld out of spite at this point.

[@VideoGameEsoterica]

Haha I did

[@AXL398]

I did too. I didn't realize that I would get so addicted. Now I see why everyone keeps saying that it scratches the itch that pokemon won't.

[@VideoGameEsoterica]

@AXL398 I need to play some more

[@Jeffmetal42]

I would bet that a large portion of Palworld's success is due to spite purchases. Nintendo is learning all about the "streisand effect". My sister in law spite purchased it and so did my brother, he doesn't even play games like that.

[@VideoGameEsoterica]

@Jeffmetal42 so did I. Support the cause

[@AlexPerez-bd9nc]

This is what happens when pokemon becomes stagnant, competition.

[@VideoGameEsoterica]

And Nintendo wants to sue competition away

[@VaporShiroVTuberCh]

@@VideoGameEsoterica Nintendo wants to be able to keep what they have without being competitive so that way they can keep serving slop because if they have to compete that means they can no longer keep pokemon within that MADE FOR CHILDREN category. If they ever had to step into more mature themes and adult targeted audiences for pokemon in order to compete against a competitor it would most likely destroy them. Because there is a reputation that Nintendo fears it will lose with its brand if they ever had to change the brand's identity and targeted audience. So in order to protect their brand's image as child friendly, they can not allow a competitor like Pal World with mature themes to exist. That is the only reason why I believe Nintendo does not want to compete against Pocket Pair. They do not want to appeal to an older demographic or be forced to be compelled to make a game for a mature audience just to stay relevant.

[@tiamatnotrealname3084]

@@VaporShiroVTuberCh i keep saying good way for pokemon to branch out is to make a subseries as action games. [like swap between control of player in field or pokemon in combat or when mounted. option to use quick attack as a dodge/dash > jump off a tree > flamethrower ring of fire around the target (ie: unevolved cyndaquil useful in endgame) > swap pokemon and start charging up a solarbeam.] pokemons downfall is the lack on innovation. [lets just make the same moves but bigger (z-moves, dynamax, ect.. (i hate that battle augment mechanic) or lets just make reskins to triple the number of pokemon with no functional difference between old and new] quote: "competition breed innovation" this is why i liked legends: arceus. its step in the right direction, just they made out of combat stunning and capturing to OP. then S/V came out and it was a backstep, that fell into a bug nest. (i cant even play Sw/Sh because the reflective lighting on EVERYTHING just gives me a headache after 40min of gameplay. so got no imput of mechanics, just fundamentally flawed artstyle) this is why liked monster sanctuary, sidescroller with team battle mechanics. this is why liked palworld, action/survival mechanics. monster catchers that innovate or branch out into other genres.

[@zappli45]

​@@VaporShiroVTuberCh Simply put not willing to innovate amd take risks. Seems like a skill issue.

[@bluenova123]

​@@VaporShiroVTuberCh Pokemon was originally made for everyone. The whole made exclusively for kids thing is relatively recent. It seems to have started after Black and White 2, but they really didn't go seriously in on it until Sword and Shield, with Legends Arceus being the last of the "made for everyone" Pokemon titles. However why put in as much effort like in Legends Arceus when you can rush out a questionable product, have it sell just as well, and get away with it by saying Pokemon is for kids? The answer is someone's own take on the monster catcher genre is going to get serious traction sooner or later. What Nintendo was famous for was being capable of making titles that are very enjoyable for all ages. Made for everyone doesn't mean make a Pokemon themed GTA, it means games like Legends Arceus. One of the reason there was so much hype for Scarlet and Violet was that people were hoping it would build on Legends Arceus foundation. For some reason they seem to have dropped that approach for Pokemon.

[@enjitanaka9020]

The idea for Pokemon is in fact an idea from another IP! Satoshi Tajiri, the creator of Pokemon, stated many times (interview linked on his Wiki page) that Pokemon was INSPIRED by his love of bug collecting and watching his favorite show ULTRAMAN. Which has the same capturing idea by capturing monsters and releasing them to fight with "Capsule Kaiju" in "Ultraman Ultraseven" in 1967-68, and "Kaiju Ball" in "Ultraman Leo" in 1974-75. Pokemon was originally going to be called "capsule monsters" aka "capsule kaiju" but do to COPYRIGHT, they changed it to "Pocket Monsters" or "Pokemon". So the absolute gall of Nintendo patenting these basic game mechanics of which the ENTIRE IDEA was taken from Ultraman to begin with, before Nintendo even started in the video game business in 1977.

[@VideoGameEsoterica]

That’s Nintendo for you. Once they steal it they think they own it

[@pakasack]

Hilarious and fascinating!

[@VideoGameEsoterica]

@pakasack my fav combo

[@samhein321]

They stole the idea of zelda dungeons from tower of Druaga, Where they said they got the idea originally, but later changed the story to "oh just walking in the forest and I came up with the idea" Same with Z-targeting for Ocarina, they said came from watching a stage play of samurais, when in reality that idea came from Virtual-on It's all just marketing lies and stealing without any original ideas ripping off others...

[@kosmosyche]

@@VideoGameEsoterica Well, to be fair, isn't this the main point of stealing? To own something that's not yours?

[@du9267]

Pokemon is the type of Monopoly that ruins the fun for others when competition is becoming a danger to the business. If only they put as much effort with the games instead of destroying competition with petty lawsuits.

[@VideoGameEsoterica]

Pokemon could use more effort lately

[@dizzyheads]

That's why they are the best because no one else is allowed to do better

[@VideoGameEsoterica]

Hahaha

[@NeithanDiniem]

Palworld's devs were using the throw-ball-to-capture-something in their previous game, before Pokemon issued their patent to begin with.

[@teamofone1219]

Yup Craftopia

[@scalliano]

...and then Nintendo will go and sue the GTA modder...

[@VideoGameEsoterica]

Haha it’s a possibility

[@aquapendulum]

Can't sue the innovator who made the innovation before the patent was filed.

[@VideoGameEsoterica]

@aquapendulum DMCA him for Pokemon. Bout it

[@nobodyimportant2470]

@@aquapendulum They couldn't sue the modder over the patent but they can over the copyright because they used Pokemon instead of making their own generic monsters.

[@Jason-b9t]

Using a mod that clearly infringes a trademark as your defense of not infringing a patent doesn't seem like a wise decision. The issue now is actually not patent coverage, but precision. Can Nintendo make a statement so that the patent covers the Palworld system but not other games? Will this precisely defined patent result in Palworld being unable to be circumvented through modifications? If the answer to both questions is "yes", it will be more difficult to claim that the patent is not unique, and it may be argued that the patent is not innovative.

[@bobbynick5358]

If Nintendo are trying to argue about riding/mounting a monster/fantasy creature in a game... *Insert any Final Fantasy Cocobo remix track* Or dragon rider games.

[@VideoGameEsoterica]

Bomberman Jetters too

[@Litegami]

Minecraft as well

[@TheRealAlpha2]

I would have said World of Warcraft probably predates both those if we're talking about rideable mounts, If not that but several other old MMOs.

[@hamidyacine-d3v]

ark survival

[@hamidyacine-d3v]

it is everything

[@raltusgaming]

PocketPair can reference their own game, Craftopia, which was out before the initial patent.

[@father_frost9791]

They don't even need to do that. Under both the US and Japanese patient law the mechanics pokemon is claiming are already public domain. All palworld has to do is find 3 games that use those mechanics that irrefutably show that pokemon has committed fraud

[@VideoGameEsoterica]

There probably dozens of good examples

[@father_frost9791]

@VideoGameEsoterica oh there definitely is. Pokemon and Nintendo fucked up bad with this one.

[@VideoGameEsoterica]

Well don’t forget it’s Japan. Diff there. So who knows how deferential the courts are to legacy companies

[@sevenember3332]

@@VideoGameEsoterica From what I understand, it’s an entirely separate process to be able to do discovery. As in, unless PocketPair applies to do this process, they will not really be permitted to submit adequate documentation for defense. Without it they are guilty as accused, no matter how ludicrous or illegal the claims are. There’s also no guarantee the three judges (no jury) will rule strictly from a legal perspective as Nintendo has intimate ties with their government

[@DYhalto250]

Optimality, Nintendo loses , gets punished by having to abandon those patens.. and prevented from registration of any patients for the next 1000 years.. to prevent more trolling

[@VideoGameEsoterica]

Haha doubtful but you never know

[@Aative]

How about Japan getting a fair use clause for their copyright laws. Make it so that Nintendo has to actually check before going after emulation content creators who use their own game backups.

[@Jeffmetal42]

Nintendo is the kind of company that would patent catching a cold.

[@VideoGameEsoterica]

And charge you for catching one 🤣

[@AlexPerez-bd9nc]

Nintendo patents swinging a sword

[@VideoGameEsoterica]

@AlexPerez-bd9nc 🤣

[@kathleendelcourt8136]

Those patents are absurd. Throwing a capture device in a video game is just a few lines of code for a program's behaviour, just like shooting a bullet that kills a character, or throwing a can of paint that coats a surface. Are we gonna patent throwing objects that interact with a 3D space now? (I wouldn't be surprized Nintendo patented something similar for Splatoon though...) It is a game behaviour, not an invention, it's not even a software technology. Nintendo hasn't invented a pokeball that works in the real world, which would be an actual valid application for a patent, pokeballs aren't catching anything it's just lines of code. And yet they produce "technical documents" to describe it as if it were an actual thing. It is all pretend, they're intentionally misrepresenting a simple gameplay element as something way more elaborate than it actually is, and it is a real shame that the office in charge of patents grants is validating that kind of gross intellectual deceit.

[@VideoGameEsoterica]

Yes it does not rise to the level of anything that should be able to obtain a patent

[@Zontar82]

indeed, what i always says, you can't patent that kind of thing, like capcom then should sue every company making a game where two people on the streets throw punches at each other, according to Dementendo

[@sevenember3332]

As far as I can tell, *none* of these patents should have been granted as there is prior art for each one. Japan also has the prior art thing as part of their patent registration, but I think it falls on the submitting party to provide the examples. Either way, someone didn’t do their job correctly

[@Charlie-Cat.]

Nintendo went mad with power VGE. They need a "100 MEGA SHOCK" from Neo-Geo to get back to normal. 8^)

[@VideoGameEsoterica]

Just let SNK take them over haha

[@Cookiedon15]

Minecraft also had Pokémon mods. I beleive they existed before GTA V (and posssibly before Pokemon XY releases)

[@VideoGameEsoterica]

I’ll look into it

[@syoxiss]

i was thinking the same, i just dont remember how long they were out for

[@SeyniFauconier]

@@VideoGameEsoterica it’s OK. I personally hate Nintendo.

[@Exis247]

Nintendo did actually sue over those mods. The modders had to change a lot of names and artwork to keep the mods going.

[@sevenember3332]

Unless there are videos showing the third-person view, it may not count since the art for the patent seems to specify it

[@Dolphinjpeg]

all of this sounds like its highly illegal on Nintendo's part

[@VideoGameEsoterica]

Not illegal, just shady

[@normanred9212]

​@@VideoGameEsotericanah this is extremely illegal but of course the US justice system has been corrupt for many many years. This is pure extortion by a larger entity on foreigners and smaller companies. Nintendo has never lost a dime because of mods, fan made content, or emulation, or even inspired by content. Idk who is speaking into their CEOs ear but they are acting like an oil company level of vile. Copyright has become a joke over the years, it is supposed to protect people who invented something so that they are known as it's creator not to attack anyone for using said invention i.e. I can't legally say I invented GTA and get all the royalties. I honestly hope everyone who Nintendo has harmed comes together and counter sues Nintendo for damages and extortion, they deserve to have to pay out a billion to others for their bad behavior

[@AmatsuDragneel]

if the judge finds that the lawsuit is malicious or is patent abuse, than yes it would be illegal

[@psoslash]

also... you know... craftopia exists, predates legends arceus and has the exact same mechanic

[@VideoGameEsoterica]

Which I’m sure their defense will bring up

[@babixillo]

thank you random gta modder 😂

[@VideoGameEsoterica]

Haha little did their know their tiny mod would have a huge future impact

[@f1ava1inda]

maybe nintendo should actually compete instead of throwing their money around to stop people being creative.

[@VideoGameEsoterica]

That’s the one thing they don’t seem to be interested in. Competing

[@f1ava1inda]

@@VideoGameEsoterica so basically they are cowards? got it 🤣 if they were as good as we all think they are they could do it.

[@Rienli]

Or making a switch that won't have a heart attack because I moved higher than 30 frames to turn it on.

[@magpief9691]

red dead undead nightmare has you capturing monster horses in a 3d space by throwing a laso if i rememver the past right. but every mmo breaks the mount patent. also pocket pairs earlier forgoten game craftopia existed before that and had the ball catching mechanic

[@VideoGameEsoterica]

Palworlds only sin was to become a success

[@koushikraj9815]

I want nintendo to loose all patent. This company gone too far.

[@VideoGameEsoterica]

If they aren’t novel and are proven to be so vague as to have dozens of prior art examples they can be invalidated

[@solitaregames]

I said it before everywhere and I'll say it again here. Nintendo has become the new Disney.

[@MouroboshiArchives]

So GTA, one of the biggest MMO open world shooters and gang crime simulators, is the ultimate savior of saving innocent games from being screwed over by nintendo's insane patent legal loopholes. this is something.

[@VideoGameEsoterica]

Haha could be. It’ll take years to find out

[@solitaregames]

Ironic given how greet Rockstar also is.

[@ALTRON3]

Nintendo are such huge villains. right up there with EA and ubisoft . creeps "All the other kids were playing Nintendo"

[@VideoGameEsoterica]

They are at the top of the list lately

[@SRC267]

Hope Sega takes over lol​@@VideoGameEsoterica

[@ColdHighway7]

The thought of Nintendo being possibly defeated by a random GTA 5 modder is absolutely hilarious

[@VideoGameEsoterica]

It’s a very funny situation

[@teamofone1219]

Are we all forgetting about Craftopia made by pocketpair which has the same mechanics that Palworld has and came out before Legends Arceus?

[@VideoGameEsoterica]

We aren’t haha. I’ll include it in a future vid

[@ceior3302]

even fan games got that mecanic long before these patents where made

[@VideoGameEsoterica]

So many games did

[@MadsterV]

Their now amended patents should be challenged because there was plenty of prior art. On another note, I wonder if in that mod, your location and all images are sent to the FIB.

[@VideoGameEsoterica]

Haha never know

[@LordRazer3]

There's also the ironic fact that pocketpair literally used the mechanic before pokemon did in a 3D environment...in craftopia that other game they made that has a capture mechanic that came out before Nintendo did any such thing so...they did it first. Also there are like 20 10+ year old mods for minecraft...that game is literally 3D no maker how you argue against it that also use a object thrown to capture a creature. Mounting...skyrim nightmare

[@VideoGameEsoterica]

Palworlds only crime was to become a huge success

[@blakegriplingph]

Bengoshitendo's vindictive IP enforcement is only going to make them a villain in the eyes of those who truly care.

[@VideoGameEsoterica]

Gotta love that a GTA V mod predates Nintendo’s own efforts and should most likely get that 1 patent invalidated based on prior art

[@blakegriplingph]

@@VideoGameEsoterica Software patents are a joke.

[@VideoGameEsoterica]

@blakegriplingph generally they can be

[@cliffordkun2844]

It's time for Digimon, Monster Rancher, Yu-Gi-Oh, Neopets, Yo-Kai Watch, Bakugan, Palworld, Monster Hunter, Monsuno, Moshi Monsters, Chaotic, Monster Crown, Cassette Beasts, Monster Sanctuary, TemTem, Nexomon, and other monster franchises especially potential new monster franchises to shine on the spotlight.

[@soundspark]

Did you really or did you just join a boycott brigade for Internet points?

[@Alte.Kameraden]

The fact ARK Survival Evolved so has similar mechanics from years before the Patents. 🎉

[@VideoGameEsoterica]

Dozens of games have these mechanics. Which is funny that Nintendo now thinks “we did it”

[@Jasmohan]

Let's Go, this is amazing! Innovation in games should not be stifled just because one company is lawsuit trigger-happy.

[@VideoGameEsoterica]

And that’s exactly what these things do. Stifle innovation

[@Ehurst01]

I'm obviously not a lawyer but I do know that in the board game world you cannot patent a game mechanism. A game publisher could release a carbon copy, theme and all, of a game and be safe. They just couldn't use trademarked terms or art assets. Are things different in video games?

[@VideoGameEsoterica]

If code is involved then things are diff yes

[@N-Xrd]

Here's something that invalidates all of Pokemon's patents. And it was done by pocket pair themselves. People forget PocketPair had a game prior to this called Craftopia. In that game, you could throw Pokeball-like objects to capture creatures in a 3D space and then ride them. Pocket pair did this prior to Pal World. The feature was liked so much that they started on the development of Pal World. I think the only thing that you couldn't do with the animals in craftopia was have them fight each other.

[@VideoGameEsoterica]

I’ll address this next vid

[@rorynorris4248]

"Throwing a ball and effecting the playing field", so... not only every sports game involving balls, but with a description that vague throwing a grenade in any military game could be claimed too? O_o;

[@VideoGameEsoterica]

Haha exactly. Wild right?

[@Zontar82]

or a tennis game? nintendo is just ridicolous, but more ridicolous are the people defending them

[@lunasakara7306]

And the irony is even under Japanese law a patent this vague shouldn't have ever been granted... so, really highlights the corruption between Nintendo and Japan's legal system.

[@Thomfamily5]

Snowballs

[@dragonenchantress6609]

Not to mention Pixelmon, I can't express how old that minecraft mod has been around and you literally throw pokeballs at pokemon in a 3D space.

[@VideoGameEsoterica]

This is true

[@ObiKKa]

HAHAHA. Gotcha! Finally something that we can thank a modder bigly for.

[@VideoGameEsoterica]

The hero we didn’t know we needed

[@pyiffer]

Throwing a ball into a playfield to affect the environment…Has Nintendo ever played Soccer(Football), Basketball, etc….Not capturing anything but throwing a ball in a 3D environment is the entire mechanic.

[@VideoGameEsoterica]

Exactly. Thats how vague their description is

[@jonathangodwin6512]

Nintendo just poisoned themselves by going after a loved game in a greasy way. It was already on the wire because of how bad some of their games quality was but now its starting to fray

[@VideoGameEsoterica]

It’s probably their worst look so far

[@METR0lD]

Dat thumbnail image! 🤣

[@VideoGameEsoterica]

As chaotic as Nintendo is

[@EhurtAfy]

I just wonder why the dozens of games with monster catching mechanics aren't being attacked by Nintendo, including PocketPair's other game Craftopia several years ago. Ark Survival Evolved has things like bolas for throwing and restraining dinosaurs and cryo pods for storing and releasing dinosaurs

[@VideoGameEsoterica]

Pocketpair just got too successful for Nintendo

[@v.m.9198]

Nintendos behavior straight up reminds me of this old lady I knew who sued everyone at the drop of a hat knowing companies would rather settle out of court or throw money at her and write it off as a loss than deal with her in court. As time went on and she got older, she wasn't able to purchase as many big ticket items or was too tired to kick up a fuss about things. She died once she wasn't able to do anymore lawsuits. It was like the fire went out of a dragon

[@VideoGameEsoterica]

Haha that’s one hell of a story

[@v.m.9198]

@VideoGameEsoterica she was one hell of an old lady. The weird thing is that aside from that, she was very nice? And she lived comfortably so its not like she needed the money or was giving it to her grandkids. All she did was make food for people and create frivolous lawsuits

[@VideoGameEsoterica]

@v.m.9198 just sounds like an “eccentric”…that weirdly charming and interesting level of slightly crazy

[@v.m.9198]

@VideoGameEsoterica or the true neutral alignment in action. I'll never know

[@sterbenmorteus9758]

Even a mod like pixelmon for Minecraft had these types of mechanics then you could also go about the roblox fan made Pokémon games with these mechanics even as early as 2008 or earlier.

[@ShadeOnTheUtube]

Other examples of throwing a ball into a 3d game field and affecting the game, would be pretty much any ball sports game where the rules allows holding or throwing the ball. Such as baseball or basketball, or even football(soccer) under certain circumstances.

[@ProjectionProjects2.7182]

It would be hilarious if Nintendo lost their case simply because of of GTA mod. 🤣

[@VideoGameEsoterica]

Well it’s only one of three counts. The other two patents can still be argued

[@electrobob992]

@@VideoGameEsoterica Well technically only one can still be argued, since the final one existed prior in other games. Skyrim, Minecraft, the list goes on. Plus pretty sure it would fall under the same category for Jumping, in that it's a mechanic that exists in real life. I think.

[@YuJay]

Digimon literally invented 3D environment creature capturing..

[@VideoGameEsoterica]

So many examples of someone doing it first

[@1palemedal]

I think it is funny they are going after palworld but not games like temtem which is a spitting image of pokemon with literally the same mechanics.

[@VideoGameEsoterica]

Just because it’s not succeeding the same way

[@electrobob992]

Or nexomon.. Which it's third game is going to be like Palworld but more child friendly. No joke, it's going 3D open world.

[@CircuitReborn]

Im going to laugh if they chase this emulation lawsuit...Nintendo has used Emulation in the past. Heck, the Nintendo Musuem currently uses emulation!!! So nintendo is actively breaking the law if they are claiming emulation is illegal.😂

[@VideoGameEsoterica]

Rules for thee, not for me

[@bob-k9x3s]

All I know is I'm glad I haven't used any Nintendo products in meny years and I hope this bs brings them to there knees

[@VideoGameEsoterica]

They don’t do much to make friends

[@KilterTalks]

Nintendo is trying to cast a wide net. They dont need every patent to hold up, just one. Having listened to a Japanese lawyer talk about it, it sounds like a respect thing. Palworld, taken as a whole, feels very much like a copy paste in almost a mocking way. But, if Nintendo addressed that point blank, the argument of parody could be used. To be fair, similar games to Pokemon have existed just fine for years; Digimon and Monster Rancher among many others. Nintendo isn't trying to force people to not make monster collecting games. Nor are they trying to literally own the right to make a game where something happens after you throw a ball. They are trying to punish someone for showing them dishonor, which matters more in Japan than America.

[@KilterTalks]

It sounds like I'm defending Nintendo, but I'm not. I don't think they have the right to retaliate due to hurt feelings lol

[@VideoGameEsoterica]

Oh it’s def hurt feelings. Someone outcompeted them and they don’t like it. Which is even worse

[@LisaSummers1988]

If you dont take good care of what you have then you cant complain when its being take from you.

[@sevenember3332]

Unfortunately, Japan has no laws to protect parody so it can’t be used as a defense. From what I’m seeing, they are absolutely upholding social conventions over the law. The senior was publicly disrespected by its junior so the senior used its influence to get legal documentation pushed through that by law it had no right to, then uses the documents to publicly force the junior into its proper respectful place or out entirely. There’s also the side issue of the deal with Sony Music Entertainment and Aniplex, but again, side issue. It’s more of a combination of PocketPair got Nintendo’s approval of the game and then got damaging combination of overwhelming success and their CEO running his mouth and publicly deriding Nintendo. Palworld likely wasn’t seen as a threat prior to release since no Pokemon “clone” had ever come close to making Pokemon levels of money. That and nearly every gaming streamer calling the Palworld creatures and spheres Pokemon terms didn’t help

[@kfcnyancat]

Pocketpair deserves to win, but I do fear this will cause more aggressive pursual of the fangame/mod scene. Maybe not even just by Nintendo.

[@VideoGameEsoterica]

Who knows what comes next. Wild West of weirdness lately

[@solitaregames]

Nintendo has become that spoiled rich kid that throws a tantrum when things doesnt get their way.

[@VideoGameEsoterica]

That’s the vibe lately

[@lazy_figetspinner_from2228]

It's so funny an shotty gta mod that could get easily taken down for using gamefreaks assets saved palworld against its board patient

[@VideoGameEsoterica]

The humor is the best part

[@noahheninger]

Nintendo is so flush with cash that all they can think to do with their money is spend it on lawsuits.

[@VideoGameEsoterica]

They always get like this when they are successful

[@FakeUser-df3mm]

in that case doesn't minecraft pixelmon do alot of that too. IDK but I consider minecfraft a 3d space...

[@VideoGameEsoterica]

So many games do. Hundreds. That’s the funny part

[@DragonMasterSubo]

just a reminder, that thumbnail bikini mario has chris pratt's voice.

[@VideoGameEsoterica]

🤣

[@ivanaul6064]

"It's a me, a-Mario"; Mario ask sexy

[@VideoGameEsoterica]

Lolol

[@Vigilanteblade]

Nintendo is the worst company in gaming when it comes to its general behaviour towards consummers, modders, fans, and the industry as a whole. As someone who worked on a fairly well-known mod, I don't get it. I made zero dollars from it, and still feel more gratitude for people wanting to try our game than Nintendo ever did to their fans, who let me remind people; finance their business and livelihood. Without their fans, without their peers in the industry, there would be no Nintendo. We keep them alive and get no thanks for it.

[@VideoGameEsoterica]

Not only do you get no thanks you actively get attacked

[@Vigilanteblade]

​@@VideoGameEsotericaYep... the thing that hurts me most is seeing Project M players just trying to play with their friends at venues, only for Nintendo to wait the day before and then send a cease and desist letter to cause as mich damage as possible, barring them from playing a modded smash game on original hardware with legitimate Brawl discs using a hackless method that doesn't perma-mod the system.

[@kiertopaz]

going by this logic barbie horse games, red dead etc for riding creatures could also help couldn't it? cause what is an animal? a monster in certain definitions.

[@VideoGameEsoterica]

All things that will probably be argued

[@AkerHasAwakenedOFFICIAL]

Minecraft is another example. Nintendo tried to go after Minecraft Pokemon mods and lost.

[@VideoGameEsoterica]

I didn’t hear that. I’ll have to look it up

[@JoachimVampire]

i sure hope nintendo doesn't try to take down that video from youtube..

[@VideoGameEsoterica]

It’ll never disappear entirely

[@circledude2362]

What about craftopia? Thats a pocket pair game using the same mechanics as palworld and was released prior for the 2021 patent at 2020

[@VideoGameEsoterica]

Also a good example I’m sure they will use

[@JuanCarlos4966]

Sounds to me like someone should send this news to Pocket Pairs staff

[@VideoGameEsoterica]

Oh I’m sure they know

[@iamdmc]

2 ESOs in 1 day? Is it Christmas already? Love the new release schedule

[@VideoGameEsoterica]

Haha been doing it for awhile now

[@Jay34k]

Hopefully this will hold up in Japanese court too. And although there's that mod as example, I'm sure that if you look long enough, you'll find plenty of other games with similar mechanics pre-Palworld. What a bunch of scumb.ags Nintendo.

[@VideoGameEsoterica]

Yes this example is just the “glowing example” because it’s literally Pokemon haha

[@Drunsyful]

Ghostbusters, any monster tamer, world of warcraft, almost all MMOs featuring pet capture, Azure Dreams (PSX), "card" captor games... Nintendo just angry players realized anyone else can make the game people been asking them to do

[@VideoGameEsoterica]

Dozens upon dozens of examples out there

[@gevura147]

Scumtendo needs to back off if they want to save what's left of their brands reputation

[@VideoGameEsoterica]

They probably won’t

[@mhzaneimpact1419]

Whats next, patent developing games?

[@VideoGameEsoterica]

Haha never know

[@tiamatnotrealname3084]

im more baffled by the patent on physics and creature anatomy. yes, many amphibians are faster in water then on land. yes, many birds fly, and faster flying then they are running. yes, falling can hurt. and "character" never limited it to living creatures either. "character" could just mean an eventID or objectID. after all, party pokemon are just objectIDs and field pokemon are just eventIDs. select objectID from a menu of selectable items and use it to create an eventID on the field. then interact with that eventID to board it and gain control of it's mobility features. ie: a ground and water boarding mount, like a hover craft or amphibious tank. one of a plurality of ridable characters, like pulling out a phone selecting a helicopter out of a list. (the game mercenaries comes to mind before i even think about gta)

[@tiamatnotrealname3084]

pokemon isnt trying to set a precedent. they are trying to make a monopoly on transportation concepts in a 3D-adventure environment. the creatures is just them narrowing their interpretation of the patent to the context related to monster catcher games. but that isnt what the patent actually says.

[@VideoGameEsoterica]

That’s the whole point. Be so vague as to be able to weaponize the patent when you want to. It can be molded to any argument. Downside is that the argument may not hold water

[@sevenember3332]

@@VideoGameEsoterica It’s also telling that America straight out rejected Nintendo’s attempts to file the same patents. It’s also been said Europe would reject them as well

[@lordbucket7755]

A "game mechanic where you throw a ball into a 3d space to capture opponents on the playing field?" So... dodgeball? Is Nintendo going to sue elementary schools now?

[@VideoGameEsoterica]

Sue them for all their lunch money!

[@Ashingda]

Modders are great, they bring more life to a game. Some of the most fun I had was due to mods. Even if you aren't interested and never plan to use it, you still feel enjoyment knowing they exist. Keep modding guys, you never know if you might end up saving the day against something like Nintendo.

[@VideoGameEsoterica]

And everyone welcomes mods except Nintendo

[@celiovicenteribeirofilho9740]

Imagine if someone wanted to make a game about Ghostbusters. Imagine if they couldn't because throwing the trap would be seen as throwing the pokeball. An entire franchise killed because of Nintendo's greed and laziness? I don't think so.

[@VideoGameEsoterica]

Exactly the point. Scary right?

[@leechamberland6773]

Good job keep the good work up

[@VideoGameEsoterica]

Thanks. I’ll def keep updating as news comes out

[@Helvetica_Scenario]

How the hell are they allowed to alter a patent after the fact? The party being sued already implemented the mechanic BEFORE the patent was changed. That is literally PRIOR art. Palworld already had the mechanic in the game. The alteration for their patent should be thrown out. This is open and shut. You can't turn an action into a crime AFTER the fact, for fuck's sake. As for riding animals, are you kidding me? everyone and their mother has games where characters have mounts.

[@sevenember3332]

Because they are adding on to an existing patent that was registered prior to the initial release of Palworld in accordance to Japanese law. Only the date initial patent registration counts for the “child” patents to be valid. Additionally, Japanese law holds the defendant as guilty until proven innocent and the process of gathering evidence has to be applied for making it hard to win as the defendant. There’s also the fact that the ruling judges tend to favor the big companies as they are the largest steady employers and contributors to the wealth of the nation. The whole thing is scuffed beyond belief as the parent patent likely shouldn’t have been granted in the first place based on PocketPair’s other game, Craftopia. It show the exact same mechanic later used in and patented for Legends: Arceus. The newer patents being granted is suspect as all get out as nothing in them is original to Nintendo regardless of wording. The mounts thing is all about the wording, by the way. It specifies jumping onto a mount to ride it, a change in performance based on the environment, seamless transitioning between mounts, and using different inputs to mount. Nearly all of which are done exactly by ArenaNet’s Guild Wars 2. There a bit of argument as to whether Nintendo specifies the mount needing to be summoned and mounted separately, but if that isn’t the case, well, ANet did that too

[@VideoGameEsoterica]

Just how it works in Japan. Plant your flag by X DATE and then you can add flags in the future

[@VideoGameEsoterica]

And therein lies the problem with this and why Nintendo is just suing in Japan. No other jurisdictions would even give them a shot at a win. Sadly the court system there leans heavily towards home grown legacy companies as well

[@electrobob992]

@@VideoGameEsoterica They did try to apply for the patents in other countries, got denied for being too broad. Probably needs to be EXACT the same.

[@ArcadeF0x]

But we also must be aware this is a mod made without Nintendo's permission, so the maker of the mod could be sued for copyright infringement.

[@VideoGameEsoterica]

Two sides of the same coin

[@AndrewAndersen-x2i]

It'd be funny if that GTA modder sued Nintendo for for infringement and won and forced Nintendo to lose control over one of its biggest franchises and lose billions of dollars because of it forcing, them to having to sell pokemon.

[@stephengrenleski1972]

Nintendo should lose this lawsuit because other games beyond Pokemon and Palworld were using these patents were created AFTER Palworld was created, not to mention that a ton of other games already had the "aim object at target and fire it" existed before Pokemon Arceus.

[@VideoGameEsoterica]

They may. But we won’t know for years

[@juggalo_gaming4523]

There's also the minecraft mod pixelmon which does the same thing plus if I remember correctly u could mount the mons and ride them to plus they had the pc storage as well and im positive that released in 2012 as well

[@VideoGameEsoterica]

Id have to look into it

[@teamofone1219]

Cobblemon as well which is a newer mod still being developed.

[@marcokrautwald1886]

they have 1000 pokemon. they themselfs cant come up with designs that look like animals anymore unless they recycle there own. at this point they are just slowing down the process for the industry and if nintendo wins. the progress in gaming will slow down as a whole. competition is always good for us

[@Zontar82]

they can't even put 1000 pokemon in one game like they did before, the bufoons, blaming it to "OnlinE CumEPtiEtive BAlAcning hurr DuRr"

[@VideoGameEsoterica]

And that’s what they want. Slow down competition

[@sevenember3332]

It’s this sort of thing that’s hurting Japan’s domestic gaming industry. As best as I can tell since I don’t play Nintendo games, they’ve had exactly the same genres for their main IP’s that were popular since I was a kid in the early to mid nineties. The only change made was adding survival crafting to Zelda and that was well after it became a thing. The companies keep producing safe bets and the domestic consumers keep buying because they’re safe bets. Except not because there’s been an influx of more attractive Korean and Chinese games. Additionally, consumers are waking up from their adherence to social conventions (trust the big companies) because they’re starting to realize the massive negative impact of the big business winning suits has

[@kampfer91]

Hence they came up with Region variant , why make a new pokemon if they can just stretch the old model here and there....

[@Ness_and_Sonic]

Hmm... Detecting an enemy behind an barrier by an outline. Was that like seeing the shadow behind the tree or was the shadow on the ground? The reason why I ask is Dead By Daylight is a little over 8 years old and the game featured aura reading since Leatherface was in game, and I believe he was the first licensed character in the game. His perk, BBQ and Chili lets you see the aura of other players for a bit if they're far enough away after you've hooked one of their teammates.

[@VideoGameEsoterica]

Good point. I’ll have to look into it

[@Ness_and_Sonic]

@@VideoGameEsoterica If it's a shadow on the Ground, that would be general Ray Tracing, so that might be another thing to look into. If that's the case, it would likely only leave one thing left. What was the last one again?

[@Redhotsmasher]

"Detecting an enemy behind a barrier by an outline" could (without knowing the details of the patent) concievably describe the outlines showing units behind buildings in Age of Empires II which was originally released in 1999.

[@Ness_and_Sonic]

@@Redhotsmasher That would leave one more patent to get rid of. Was it an animal amount? If so, I've to wonder if what games would feature this. I kind of feel like this might be a Golden Axe thing, but maybe there's other games that would have this covered. I know some Crash Bandicoot games also had you ride animals, so that might be worth thinking about.

[@sevenember3332]

@@Ness_and_Sonic Very specifically Guild Wars 2. They released a mount system in 2017’s “Path of Fire” that ticks every single stated box. Jumping onto the mount to ride, performing differently when it’s not in its specific environment e.g. slower on land than its intended water environment, and others I can’t remember off the top of my head. None of what they stated is original to them

[@Rolling-nachos40]

Sueing something thats more secessful proof of how low a company is getting considering we gotten the same crap by nintendo for 10 years and beyond like 80s and 2010s

[@VideoGameEsoterica]

Sue to outcompete

[@Rolling-nachos40]

Lol right it's so true

[@PopeTheRevXXVIII]

as Johnny Cash Sang You can run on for a long time......

[@VideoGameEsoterica]

lol didn’t expect a Johnny Cash comment today

[@Code7Unltd]

"I got it one piece at a time And it didn't cost me a dime" -Johnny Cash, 17 May, 1976

[@PopeTheRevXXVIII]

@Code7Unltd the Nintendo Ninjas caught up and he shot one in Reno just to watch him die

[@VaporShiroVTuberCh]

Pokemon Legends is turn based PalWorld is not. The mechanics are different enough to literally be their own thing even with these reworked patents. These two games are literally two different game genres. In Palworld you have to actually move around and dodge attacks while battling pals or human enemies Additionally human enemies in game do not use pals to battle you, they use guns and in fact you can actually capture humans in a pal ball. POKEBALLS CANT CAPTURE HUMANS NOT THE SAME

[@VideoGameEsoterica]

It’s all one massive mess

[@Freyafanboy90]

Well that's a nice catch. Could they use Temtem as well? Maybe Monster Rancher?

[@VideoGameEsoterica]

I’m sure all could at least be potentially relevant

[@wirlogx]

Throwing a ball into a 3D field? sounds like throwing a grenade in a war game...

[@VideoGameEsoterica]

Exactly

[@meyou-dz2kl]

I dont want to sound like a infint but haha this is so satifing o how the tabels turn

[@VideoGameEsoterica]

It’s pretty funny

[@KertaDrake]

With their wording, would grenades count?

[@VideoGameEsoterica]

Haha it could be argued it does

[@kazerk5475]

Not only that example in the gta V mod but also in a fangame called pokemon generations there is also a use of a throwing ball to capture in a 3d space!

[@VideoGameEsoterica]

So many good prior art references

[@nm3k511]

Guild Wars 2: Path of Fire (2017) can also be considered as prior art since the mount system is literally what Nintendo is trying to describe in their patent on their mount system.

[@VideoGameEsoterica]

Ooh I’ll look into it

[@nm3k511]

@VideoGameEsoterica I'll look into more games that are prior art. What was the third patent about again? I know the first one being the throw ball in 3D space to capture thing and the mount system, but what about the third patent?

[@nm3k511]

​@VideoGameEsoterica checked again, I know the Mount system patent was about summoning a creature to Mount right on the spot without transition. So Path of Fire does indeed cover that. In the instance that Nintendo tries to argue that it is captured creatures mounted... Then I am thinking literally any Western game (like RDR2) with horses or even possibly the Minecraft Pokémon mods.

[@VideoGameEsoterica]

@nm3k511 and Pocketpair’s team of researchers and lawyers will have a field day with all these great examples

[@HoushouRattengod]

World of Warcraft Pet Battle System

[@VideoGameEsoterica]

Also true

[@Totavier]

Only thing that I'm still wonder is why Nintendo targets only Palworld?, I mean there are many others Pokemon like games that uses the same mechanics like TemTem or Ni No Kuni (the first game) and even one of them has a similar like Nexomon. In any case I hope they lose, it wasn't enough that to this days they still renew the patent of the game Eternal Darkness just to keep the "Sanity's meter bar" mechanic idea to them and no one can use it (yeah that's the reason they renew the patent of the game, it's not for a sequel or make a HD version, it's just for keep that mechanic).

[@VideoGameEsoterica]

Because Palworld is too successful and Sony has gotten involved

[@sevenember3332]

To clarify, Sony Music Entertainment and one of its subsidiaries, Aniplex have made a deal with PocketPair and set up a company called PocketPair Entertainment. There are talks about making an anime and merchandising which puts them in direct competition against Nintendo, Game Freak and the Pokemon Company. All of the prior stand to make a lot of money based on initial and continued interest in Palworld and increasing dissatisfaction with the Pokemon franchise, especially in the wake of the announcement of the lawsuit

[@VideoGameEsoterica]

And Nintendo does NOT like that

[@SRC267]

Wild story and looking forward to how this pans out. Also lol at Mario in bikini

[@VideoGameEsoterica]

Haha the thumbnails are my fav part

[@EverScrolls]

People clearly didn’t do their research at all. Theres a pokemon clone game on the PSP where you throw balls to capture creatures lol

[@VideoGameEsoterica]

Nintendo certainly didn’t

[@electrobob992]

Yeah there were tons of these clones. Invizimals for example, came out in 2009 on the PSP, published by Sony. Wouldn't surprise me if there was a clone out there somewhere that added the very same mechanics Palworld has that predates Nintendo's claims. ESPECIALLY if it was published or involved Sony. I know I would laugh xD Since then.... Sony could possibly sue Nintendo

[@TheSensationalMr.Science]

anyone remember the Universal (King Kong) vs Nintendo (Donkey Kong) court case? hehehe! I do! seems Nintendo forgot that a bit... though it would probably make them even more rabid legally speaking. Hope you have a great day & Safe Travels!

[@VideoGameEsoterica]

Nintendo loves to do what they won’t let others do that’s for sure

[@ShardDeVir]

And how did that court end?

[@TheSensationalMr.Science]

@@ShardDeVir in the case it was in Nintendo's favor, but the reasoning was because King Kong became diluted as a brand {it became in public use for too long and not by universal} and thus couldn't be defended. I am saying that Nintendo seems to be on the taking it side now, rather than the getting. though the issue was that they were going through trademark with King Kong and not copyright or patents. though the point of the plot and characters being public domain was evidently the main winning part with that case. it was also how King Kong became public domain by universal having to remove it from their catalog as a copyrighted work. Hope you have a great day & Safe Travels!

[@TheSensationalMr.Science]

@@ShardDeVir you can also search it up on wikipedia or any other legal wiki as well by it's title: Universal City Studios, Inc. v. Nintendo Co., Ltd Hope you have a great day & Safe Travels!

[@ShardDeVir]

@TheSensationalMr.Science thank you for enlightenment. Have a nice day and be safe!

[@LightSilver7]

If this mod actually is the winning card for all patents, 😂 by their own game IP btw, then the new goal would be: Create all possible unpatented mods. But then again isn't this a double edge sword whereby the modders are able to patent all these ideas for themselves and do nothing with it? Basically gatekeeping these ideas from everyone? This would be so bad. I'm not familiar with patent laws, but surely not right? Aw man if anything what palworld has done should fall under a universal patent fair use or something, as long as it's not a 1:1.

[@VideoGameEsoterica]

The reality is this is why patent law is a mess

[@chroniconicles6295]

Has Ark even been brought up in this case yet? They’ve been using this mechanic for years, since the cryopod came out? What about the hundreds of Pokémon mods for that game? Surely Nintendo isn’t blind to Ark especially with its own legal issues that it’s had.

[@vampireraze]

The mount one should also be invalid because of a little game called monster hunter stories, you got your water mounts running on land and jumping in the water or if are on a different monster you can talk to the water and change into your water mounts and the flying monster can also run and just fly anywhere and you can just swap between the monsters you want to ride all of this is an a 3d space

[@VideoGameEsoterica]

I bet there’s dozens of examples of that too

[@vampireraze]

I know but it is the closest example I can think of to the legends Arceus mounting

[@VideoGameEsoterica]

@vampireraze it’s a quality example :)

[@celiovicenteribeirofilho9740]

Nintendo's complaints have always been ridiculous, so much so that there is no lawsuit for plagiarism but for patents that did not exist when Palworld was launched.

[@VideoGameEsoterica]

Using the Japanese legal system to their advantage

[@MegaManNeo]

I have to think of the The Great Giana Sisters case from way back then. It was few years before I came to life, yes, but most people know this story anyways. Back then, Nintendo succeeded to take down Giana Sisters as it seems because they wanted to patent how platformers work. Luckily the latter never happened but still... under their current leadership Nintendo's back to old "strength" it seems and I hate it.

[@VideoGameEsoterica]

Nintendo hates everything these days

[@threeforthsstudios]

What about Skyrim and Soultrap? You throw a purple orb to capture a creature, and can infuse it into weapons and armor and use them within the world. What about Ark and their pokeballs? I see so many games that use these vague mechanics, its unreal.

[@VideoGameEsoterica]

All great examples I’m sure could be used in the case

[@IamMarkSmith]

Thank you!

[@VideoGameEsoterica]

👍