No, Jesus doesn't want you to struggle with your sexuality. w/ Candace Simpson & Zora Hamsa

[@ForHarriet619]

Patrons and members saw this video two weeks ago! Join today! Patreon.com/ForHarriet

[@theodoraramsey1290]

I cried myself to sleep last night because I’m probably bi and felt like it was either my sexuality or my faith and my family. The road is still long and hard but I just want to say thank you.

[@brittdavis1]

You can have both, you dont have to choose. 💜

[@fletcheranaclara]

and know that you have community to travel this long road ahead. if not anywhere else, in me. this is a hard road but still beautiful and special & that you deserve to tread :)

[@FaiaHalo]

It's so disgusting what religion does to people as pure as you. It tears them apart. It did the same to me years ago. I've been nontheist (mainly the hegemonic abrahamic god) for two years now and I've never felt more freer and happier. A lot of people don't realize that you don't need a god that committs mass murder of innocents in the bible or a religion that has oppressed and k-lled people for centuries (still does) to be a humanistic person. Secular humanism and animal rights advocacy (as well) exists and puts NO shame on you or any of your loved ones and communities.

[@pretty-lb2qx]

@Broke Dawn You have have you own beliefs but just respect others. You don't have to believe in God but if others choose to just respect their choice even if you don't understand it.

[@pretty-lb2qx]

@@FaiaHalo Can i ask you a question? When did God commit a mass murder of innocent people in the bible?

[@arianna5270]

Folks love to do everything they think the Bible said but mind their business and treat people right.

[@Na2Ocean]

💯

[@_Spicymorenita]

That part 🎯

[@jermen5137]

Right!!! Ugh

[@Kyethecreator]

Say it louder for the folks who don’t want to hear it! 🙌🏾

[@reginaldfairfield]

This.

[@catalystcoversations5644]

Pain does not make us more worthy of God's love. Whew chile.

[@jaybrielz9244]

The whole idea of an "ex-homosexual" is so scary and disturbing

[@imanigordon6803]

jay how is it disturbing? you’d think that a partnership that god didn’t intend to be would be disturbing but 🤷🏾‍♂️

[@jaybrielz9244]

@@imanigordon6803 Life is too short to be living a lie. People shouldn't be told that their inherent being and pursuit of happiness is bad, especially since it negatively impacts no one. People shouldn't be pressured into relationships that have no genuine attraction or love just because they are perceived as "normal". Being preached that acting upon your your natural and harmless feelings is completely destructive to your psyche and self worth even if you eventually give into what has been told to you and become an "ex-homosexual". If one wants to become an "ex-homosexual", it should be entirely based upon what they alone want in life and not based on others' perception of them, or out of fear. I already know this won't change your opinion on the matter so this is all I will say.

[@imanigordon6803]

jay all I’m saying if Jackie wants to be an ex homosexual let her be that and also let anyone that does otherwise lives as well. I just refuse to allow people to misconstrue the Bible and gods words because they want their reality to be correct 🤷🏾‍♂️ god made eve to be the other half of Adam that’s the law of nature in every facet of life on this planet. If you wanna be homosexual be that! But if your intentions are to say that the law of nature and dawn of man isn’t correct because you wanna have sex with the same sex, so your willing to change anything to represent your reality that’s where I see you as a false prophet. I agree to disagree 👌🏾

[@natmarie4300]

Imani Gordon though female/male relationships are the norm in most animals (including humans), there are also instances of same sex couplings. Yes, the exception does not make the rule but this is not a moral argument. That is nature. www.bbc.com/earth/story/20150206-are-there-any-homosexual-animals

[@snuffulupagusprime]

There are several heterosexual partnerships that god didn’t intend to be so what’s your point.

[@brieoliver]

I absolutely love this conversation. It is not often we talk about Christianity from a Black, womanist perspective. They are absolutely right. As Black folks, our religious experience is often more expansive than just the Bible. I would love more discussions about this. And I'm glad to see this movement

[@SoulQueenWu]

FACTS!

[@prettytexastree]

"Our nation has not prepared critical thinkers" - Say it Again for the people in the back!

[@alenasmith2846]

Homosexuality does not actually appear in the Bible. It was changed with a mistranslation. The original wording actually means "boy molesters". It was condemning the practice of coupling men with young boys. This was later CHANGED to homosexual in the 1946 translation, but that was not the prior contextualization and had never been.

[@brieoliver]

@@bibaolaitan5189 Straight couples practice sodomy too, hun. A type of sexual act is not specific to any one coupling.

[@bluebird1694]

@@bibaolaitan5189 are you only reffering to qnal? Because oral technically counts as that too.

[@aamia3769]

Ok, if that was changed then what else was changed? And how do you decipher what to believe in the Bible and what was changed? This is a slippery slope.

[@SteppingOut957]

Reference? Never heard of this.

[@bluebird1694]

@@SteppingOut957 the bible was not originally in English hon. Certain things got edited or mistranslsted from the original texts. You can research this stuff yourself, it's all over the net.

[@emilygruber9421]

This video summed up so many ideas I've had regarding faith and sexuality. I have a friend who decided in January to repress her bisexuality as part of her returning to Christianity, and I think this video would be really useful to her. For anyone out there in a tough situation: you are loved, and if you feel you have to repress who you love in order for God to love you, you are mistaken.

[@syds8752]

Damnit this is beautiful

[@Awesomepossum233]

Amen.

[@queenmercy3135]

Unfortunately, there are people that look like you that don't have your best interest at ❤️. Your a demonic force for her. Stay AWAY.

[@talkswithali]

@@queenmercy3135 lmaooo, sush

[@eyecandymetirua5238]

@@queenmercy3135 You are the only demon here💯

[@serenity6831]

When Candace said black women have to stop making ourselves into Jr. Christ figures. SHEESH! 😭

[@seamstressdragon8707]

I am personally a non religious person but if Jesus say did come back, he wouldn't agree with or share the same values as the conservative, evangelical, prosperity gospel Christians.

[@abracadaverous]

Sometimes I wonder if he hasn't been back already, but nobody recognized him, because maybe he was born quietly into poverty instead of showing up with fanfare and parades and piles of money and superhero powers

[@godsuniqorn1043]

I agree

[@seamstressdragon8707]

@@abracadaverous There was a debate on Intelligence Squared where the topic was 'Is the Catholic Church a Force for Good?' Stephen Fry who was arguing against the question said 'Do you know who would be the last person to be accepted as a prince of the church? The Galilean carpenter, that Jew, they would kick him out before he tried to cross the threshold.'

[@amymarie9107]

As a *not straight* person that was raised in a fundamental Christian home this was truly a blessing to hear. I cried multiple times. Thank you for the interview and having those powerful, warm, intelligent humans speak light and hope into my heart🖤

[@samuri2011]

Same here 😭😭😭😭💕💕

[@Social_Pugatory]

Y’all took me to church today! Like this is the type of church I want to attend. Where we aren’t just reading off text in the context of the white supremacist systems that impose that text onto us but really getting down to the bare bones of community and love and the human experience improving the human condition like Christ did. Challenging empires and systemic structures. Radical love.

[@j.c.6573]

Great comment! I feel the same

[@niesta8843]

Ditto

[@michaelsnipper6336]

Ru crazy these chicks trying to redefine the Bible that they just zipped through. Do they know everyone in the Bible besides Esau is a person of color. The Bible is straight forward and women especially black women get into their feelings instead of fact bc the Bible condemns their lifestyle these women going to hell

[@laurenerias3025]

WOW - I'm not religious but I grew up in church and i find Candice's interpretation of sin SO REFRESHING

[@realSeyitan]

I like that you said "Candace interpretation".

[@tylerhackner9731]

A lot of people misrepresent what Jesus is truly about and believed, and focus on bigotry and telling people they’re “living in sin” for being gay, instead of gentrification, homelessness and material conditions not improving which is the real issue.

[@dariusd2003]

Speak on it. I've seen parents abandon their children and throw them out because of their "faith". I don't get it.

[@smilesandsg]

dariusd2003 it is not faith. People can’t see that no matter what faith they exist within, their politics (racism homophobia etc) determines the actions they take, but instead they wrongly hide behind the name of God in their hate.

[@blakea.e.1681]

Why wouldn't God fix all of these terrible things happening if he was actually good?

[@talkswithali]

@@blakea.e.1681 now... that's the question of the damn century

[@daseanclark5462]

Jesus focused on both, most of the miracles in the gospels He focused on their human needs first (feeding the 4k/5k, water to wine, calming the storm, etc.) then He addressed their spiritual needs. When addressing the woman caught in adultery, He told the men off, then once they walked away He told her to go and sin no more. Both social reform and freedom from sin are real issues, it's not one or the other. I think most christians will agree that, other than the unfairness of life, it's usually sin causing the social issues though.

[@BlairinBelgrade]

I would be interested to hear from non-Christian speakers, as not all Black Americans are Christians (many are Muslim). I'm not Christian, but it was interesting to hear that perspective 😊

[@sofiavillalba2404]

Yes, please, for ONCE

[@klzylcy]

This is my second time watching this video, and I deeply appreciate it. I teach freshman English, and I often urge my students to “read rhetorically”. When I heard Candace and Zora explain how we don’t read the Bible through a contextual lens, I was reminded of this. I was also thinking of this: a lot of times, we reduce the Bible to a discussion of sin without taking into account that love is the foundation of Christianity. The evangelical wing of our faith often conveniently ignores how focused Jesus was on love (I think of Matthew 22:37), and they ignore just how radical it was for Him to be focused in this way. Sin is that which separates us from God’s love, and, honestly, the Bible is consistent in asserting that. When we train our efforts on policing people’s actions, it allows us to ignore the work we have to do within ourselves to root out anything that is not aligned with love.

[@brieoliver]

THANK YOU! Love is such a central message in the Bible that it absolutely shocks me folks still can't get it together. Above all else, our job has always been to love one another. That's it. So much of our problems would be solved if we refocused on that key message.

[@jay_bee7681]

Jesus told the disciples that he leaves them (us) with the greatest commandment, that we love one another as he has loved us.

[@MostlyMoselei]

The replay value on this is just *chef’s kiss* 💕

[@tikkiturtlegal]

Good discussion, and much-needed! I think that when discussing "the word of God", we should be mindful of how the Bible has been re-written with certain sections added or adjusted over the centuries to suit narratives. Let's also not forget the many translations of the Bible, begining with ancient Greek...that's a lot of room for mistranslations. I'm very hesitant to say anything is the pure "word of God" , and that's before you add how the Bible has been used for colonialism/slavery/oppression in general.

[@bonnobalopi]

Kim, you have done beautifully with curating a space of knowledge, cos wow, these women inspired me to read more.

[@willnotez6976]

2 things..... and i say this with the upmost respect 1) I think that u should reevaluate the arguments that Jackie Hill Perry has said. She makes many of the same "communal" arguments that both ladies of the panel actually brought up in regards to "Sin". 2) in regards to sin, how do u rectify your understanding of Sin in the context of scripture?? I believe that it is important for Christians to craft our arguments WITHIN the biblical context. The entire point of the Gospel ( If this is The spiritual Worldview that you adhere to) is that Christ came to redeem Mankind from Sin. The problem of sin is a major aspect of our Doctrine. We can't ignore it, and trying to recontexualize it changes the Doctrine

[@VivianeBossina]

I absolutely agree. We cannot redefine what sin is because it makes us uncomfortable.

[@juicyparsons]

KevOnStage and his wife and his whole brand gave me faith in the black progressive Christian community again. I appreciate all y'all!

[@VirtuouSilhouette]

It's troubling that even from the beginning with the conversation about sin, that personal opinion takes precedence over what the Bible says in biblical context. If you don't agree with what the Bible says, changing the meanings of things to fit personal opinion just turn the conversation into a different conversation. Even though white evangelicals have perverted the Christian religion (which is wrong) to suit themselves, it's just as wrong to do the same as black people to fit our comfort. These things don't address biblical theology, because they are not based on the Bible, but they are spoken of as if they are under the umbrella of Christianity.

[@Fortheloveofcoils]

I agree said a similar thing earlier in the comments

[@nerdfantasyxox]

I’m not religious yet totally agree. You can’t just change context to fit your own comfort. This is why I’m not religious. I literally find the book contradicting and it continuously has proven to have racist, sexist and homophobic views contradicting it’s so called message of love. And it’s sold as fact without any proof of any legitimate evidence of any of the acts it speaks on vs scientific evidence of the world and its history. I know you are stating this comment as a religious person, but your statement is actually the very reason why non religious people like me exist to begin with...

[@VirtuouSilhouette]

@@nerdfantasyxox I hear you and yes, I am a devout Christian. If you are interested and have time there's a great documentary the I saw on Facebook called American Gospel: Christ alone. It talks about how Christianity was twisted to fit the agenda of people who used it the wrong ways in America. There is also the movie called Case for Christ where a journalist tried to disprove Jesus' existence and crucifixion, he couldn't and became a believer. I'm sharing that in the hope to mend some of the tension you have, not for conflict. I can understand how you have come to your conclusion and I hope to impress upon you that the harm done by the "religious people" doesn't actually reflect the message of Christ. It's hard to separate at times, but there is a difference. ❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️ Love to you. Stay safe.

[@nerdfantasyxox]

MrsCherrae I appreciate the offer, the thing is I really have looked into it, and my views have nothing to do with disproving the existence of god. It’s about proving his existence with actual evidence. It’s more about showing valid proof of the conception of the world and interactions of people as the Bible states it to be that there has yet to be any proof without contradictions evidence of other things that do exist that the Bible can’t seem to account for. Yes American Christians may have twisted it some, but inherently it’s original context is still flawed, I’m sorry but it just is... and even it’s original context is well... toxic. It’s inherently a non black religion introduced to west and East African sectors many many years ago that just stuck... not that African spirituality was any less toxic, but Christianity for black people specifically was inherently always meant to be racist and sexist. Either way, please continue to enjoy what makes you feel whole and safe the way you want to enjoy it.

[@Fortheloveofcoils]

meka sky I can see your point. Trust me I am in a Christian vs atheist discussion group and I encounter these things all the time and have pretty mean encounters with atheist even got called racist things and derogatory statements just for being a Christian and believing in the Bible. So it really goes both ways to be honest. You find good representatives in some and bad representatives in others that’s EVERYWHERE. That’s why I try not to stereotype a whole group of people regardless of anything cuz how bias works and how there is different perspectives in each group and not everyone is the same. So I don’t categorize all atheist even though majority of discussions where I was called all those things or treated that way was from atheist because I know they are not the representative. Also that’s your opinion on the Bible and you’re right to have that opinion for sure. I disagree of course cus I think the words you used often today are misused and often become broad statements. Like racism, Christians and Catholics in the past have used it to justify slavery of a certain people group. But they were racist not the Bible. Racism is a system and that system was the government. Next sexist, same point. People have used it by misinterpreting the text with already bias sexist views. But that again is false unless sexism is defined by your own standards and not the actual definition then one can’t argue that. Same with homophobic. There is no homophobic verses in the bible unless again you apply that to your own standards and what you view homophobic means. Cuz homophobic is a psychological fear of gay people. The Bible does not teach to fear sin or sinners. Look at Jesus and the prophets for example they were surrounded by them everyday. So that’s contrary. The Bible one could also say it’s sex-phobic cus of sec outside of marriage, animal sex-phobic, pedo-phobic, adultery-phobic, murder-phobic and one can go one... The Bible is giving us a knowledge of sin and the divine law of God NOT fear of sin or sinners. We are actually told not to fear. So none of those accusations are supported in the Bible if we are arguing Biblical doctrines and definitions.

[@Paxility]

Can we talk about how awesome it sounds to say "I have a master's in divinity"

[@basicswithb503]

“Black women don’t get to be women.” TEARS. Just, tears. Thank you for this.

[@mikegrady5420]

What who is stopping you. Stop that blood clot crying 😢 😢

[@rasdt2874]

@@mikegrady5420 nobody is literally stopping it but nobody is validating it and almost everybody is enabling it.

[@boysaiah3165]

I loved hearing Candance speak. The “he makes the good henny keep flowing” was such funny yet meaningful line.

[@myakay1]

They ate this topic UP! I love how they recognized octavia butler’s and toni morrison’s and other black authors’ works as sacred. Its like restoring power to these penetrative works. Ive never even thought of the power of these texts to that degree but when i reflect on reading them the emotions they evoke and the way they bring us together is sacred!

[@alayjahk2348]

Love this! Would love to see you talk to Candice Benbow also, she was on kev’s channel too talking about theology

[@iamlaurengill]

Chile the saints all but called Candice the devil

[@tamaracharese]

So many folks need to hear this. So so many. The interview disturbed my soul in ways I didn’t have the language for. Thank you for walking me thru my feelings. I turned off that video just feeling that the lord I serve does not want that limited existence for us. He wants us to live in the fullness of the Holy Spirit. Thank you for this.

[@queenmercy3135]

That wasn't the Lord. 👀

[@adwoamk8918]

@@queenmercy3135 Say it again, this is crazy.

[@vibe2248]

Yeah this whole conversation disturbed me. Trust me I definitely feel like the Holy Spirit is dealing with me & ummm I know for sure when I’m even just thinking about things of my flesh & of this world he lets me know that I shouldn’t b doing it if it’s not about the lord. So I’m thinking these ppl need to pray some more.

[@tamaracharese]

@@vibe2248 your God and my God are completely different obviously; bless your journey

[@tamaracharese]

@D for Daphne and I’m blessed. That is also apparent.

[@ManningInterpreter]

This discussion was absolutely beautiful and I enjoyed it so much. If I had heard their voices and perspectives when I came out, I may not have decided Church/Christianity wasn’t for me. I may not have so much church related trauma that the thought of even sitting in a church feels like one of the most unsafe places, and makes me want to run and hide. I loved listening and learning from this discussion. They give me hope. I would join any community that they are a part of.

[@kimmie__kim]

I'm Christian and in the LGBTQ+ community, but don't think Kev should have took the video down. I think we should hear both sides and go to the Bible first. And although I didn't necessarily agree with Perry's conclusion and all the opinions she holds, I still love listening to many different sides of a coin and there were things I did agree with. I just think we should be inclusive and understanding of everyone

[@Noloyiso_M]

People don't like hearing opposing views, it's wild I think, but i think it comes from an assumption that if our opinions differ, than we are a threat to each other. Which I don't believe is always true.

[@emilyonizuka4698]

I feel like I get a whole free university lecture every time I watch your videos.

[@ChurchOfCiiku]

Watching this after watching the Austin Channing Brown has made me realise that for us in Africa, our Christianity is modeled after the white evangelical due to missionaries and colonialism. Our Christian religious practices are individualistic and hateful. I am not religious but whew a realisation all the same.

[@unerevuese]

When Candace and Zora talked about how we are not taught to critically think about the scripture it reminded me of how adults shamed me for questioning the bible. I never had thoughtful conversations about christianity because it was sinful in the eyes of my church elders. I loved this conversation.

[@swiggs_7]

Why are y'all so threatened by ONE woman, JHP, sharing her testimony with Biblical framing? I have been following JHP for a while now and she is not on an anti gay crusade by any means, she preaches Jesus and the Gospel. If she has found happiness in Christ and is satisfied with her husband and raising two daughters (with one more on the way) than who is anyone to judge? If you are really familiar with her than you would know that she's not about condemining folks because that's not her place. Academia teaches you to read, research and study the topic matter at hand than give a critique. Did anyone actually read her book? Listen to her sermons? Also, her book was released in 2018 and was a best seller way before the Kevonstage interview.

[@Fortheloveofcoils]

Jackie hill Perry said nothing concerning but speak her truth and if others have the right to do so then so should she and there is no reason to take a video down but just to be worried about what people think more than hearing a different perspective which right now is silenced so much that people are forced to adopt bias views today because of the cancel culture and being afraid to say anything that may even cause an ounce of irking. She spoke what she believed from her experience NOT coming from a person who never had the experience but for someone who did. What she said was in perfect harmony with the Bible. She never condemned anyone and never does she gives the church different perspectives to how to minister to gay people and still be a bible believing Christian at the same tone which is valuable as back then there was no such perspectives given that made many of the churches very lacking and hypocritical in the church that pushed many away. A hypocritical Christian life will do more harm than a true living Christian lifestyle. That is what caused the to become what it is today. But instead of removing hypocrisy in the church, We instead have moved towards removing key doctrines in the Bible which is FAR more dangerous to the souls of many giving the enemy the upper hand. That is the issue. Jackie has brought a correct view from her own lessons in her life and brought news ways to have these conversations that can break barriers while still be sola Scriptura Christians. If that’s a problem today then that shows you where the times we are living in and a fulfillment of prophecy that many will have itching ears and turn to leaders and preaches that have soothing speech. Read and study the Bible the harmony of the Bible as there is no contradiction but only in ones mind as the spirit is willing but the FLESH is WEAK. Mainstream Christian church have no idea how far away they have moved from the word of God but there is still hope for all to come to the TRUE convicting power of the gospel that does not Condemn BUT does in fact CONVICT. And that is what happened to Jackie and a beautiful story. I don’t agree with all her theological views but she is heading on the right direction of her understanding of the scriptures that is in line with the Bible. Her and her husband do great work together and are very similar in their evangelism styles. So the people that claim to be free of judgement don’t even realize they do the exact same thing they want others not to do to them which is also hypocrisy in my humble opinion. No disrespect at all to anyone but I do notice quite a hypocrisy in the comments of Kev on Stage while the same people are arguing hypocrisy in the church so very strange indeed 🤔

[@Fortheloveofcoils]

Many people accuse others of picking and choosing in the Bible but do the exact picking and choosing themselves for what suits them and rip the pages that don’t. I literally saw a post one woman rip a page out of the book that talked about godly marriage and rolled it up and boasted on how she smoked that page. That is how people spiritually do with the word of a God today. They rip out the pages mentally in the word and only pick up the parts they like that make them FEEL good. Jesus didn’t come down making folks feel good and that’s why they followed him. Rather Jesus made MANY people angry cuz what he said was AGAINST the culture of that time in Jerusalem and the leaders themselves wanted to feel good about themselves and since he didn’t make them feel that wha they rejected him. That is exactly what the Christian church is doing today with Jesus in their mind. They say “if he doesn’t support my “feel good” I don’t want him” and they turn away just like his followers eventually did when they found out he wasn’t who they thought he was. It’s idolatry to put up a false image of God in your mind that suits you. Even if one claims it’s the biblical one. “In VAIN they worship me with their lips, teaching as doctrines the commandments of MEN.” Matt 15:9 This still applies today to the Christian church the new spiritual Israel. Elevating ManMade traditions and philosophies rather than the WORD Of God. That is history being repeated time and time again as the Christian church continued throughout the centuries. First with Catholicism, Now with Secularism and Greek inspired philosophy. Both commandments of men. Both contrary to the doctrines of Christ. Both needing to be left behind and following Christ. That is why israel was to be set apart from the heathen nations to not plague their own beliefs and intertwine. This is what has happened to the Christian church. In need now another spiritual reformation.

[@sayjones9100]

I completely agree that people are silenced if they don't say what is popular or if it does not fit the popular narrative. Jackie should be able to share her experience just like anyone else.

[@Fortheloveofcoils]

a Perigosa You’re welcome to that opinion but at the same time let that be a Quran and the reactions be somehow different and one called a islamaphobe that’s the hypocrisy I see. So one does that to the Bible then I will automatically call Christophobe since anything can be called that now when one disagrees. So folks should stay consistent

[@Fortheloveofcoils]

Briefly Trending SayJones Thank you. Media already doing enough censorship themselves as it is. Folks need to be consistent allow different perspectives. I don’t watch this show anymore but Eventually we gone turn into that Black Mirror episode where everyone was being fake to each other just so they can keep a good social credit score. If we keep this up. As long as we just keep things respectful and dialogue we come to far better solution in the world then the way things been going. That’s my observation tho

[@Fortheloveofcoils]

a Perigosa Christians been getting persecuted Look at the heightened persecution in China and in Africa for example where young Christians are literally been been beheaded in Africa or shot in the head with video recording and number are growing even more based on the recent conflict that’s been going on. The mainstream news just don’t care to report it to push further biases. So that’s incorrect. Plus folks have been losing their jobs if you have paid attention to what’s been going on lately. And even more to come and people faiths being compromised even more with censorship and the workplace. So you just made my exact point. Don’t be so focused on mainstream news and go along with the biases often pushed there cuz they don’t report on this stuff happening if you do your research you will see it’s been happening. They just came out with a report last year that Christians are being the most persecuted sect worldwide. So please don’t fall for that. And what privilege being a Christian? Again this is all depending on where you live. Plus I am also black Christian person so privilege where lol?

[@sayjones9100]

I was wondering if these women see themselves as Christians. Also I believe if you are then the bible is where you learn about Jesus/ God so I personally don't understand how someone can say " I believe sin is fill in the blank. When the bible is clear about what sin is. I do kind feel like they are trying to demonize Christianity

[@jermen5137]

She did mention that the Bible has a lot that is missing which many people of the faith believe as well. So everything isn’t as cut and dry as what is in it from their perspective.

[@jessekeiser100]

This wisdom has my heart pounding, such love in this conversation ❤️

[@LenaBOOMBeana]

These conversations are always valuable... we do need to hear from different brands of Christianity...& there are MANY... Jackie Hill Perry is NOT a universalist, like Candice... they see God different, they see scripture differently, they see sin differently... They are different types of Christians... it’s really simple! These women’s definitions of sin alone... are enough to understand that they are just a different type of Christian.... & in the words of Tabitha Brown... THAT IS THEY BUSINESS 🤷🏾‍♀️ Just like Jackie can follow Jesus in the ways she believes He has called her.... Jackie is not the only person who believes as she believes, she isn’t the only BLACK person who believes as she believes... It’s interesting to hear people basically say that there are certain things that they are unwilling to give up for a God who gave his LIFE to reconcile them to the Father God.... of you don’t believe in sin you don’t need Jesus and there is no point in being a Christian....Why would Jesus DIE on a cross if there is no such thing as SIN.... How in the world could we possible want Jesus to come into our lives to make a way on earth.. but not want access to a eternity in Heaven... this life is short compared to eternity... ain’t nothing I would not give up for God... and no one I wouldn’t give up for God And that’s coming from me, a person who lived very Queer, and then also performed unethical straightness too.. and decided to give all that up, for JESUS

[@LenaBOOMBeana]

@cuzIcan you would have to elaborate, I’m not sure I understand what you are saying….

[@blvckzulu9469]

Free yourself from the shackles of monotheistic religion if your truly want to be liberated mentally, spiritually, and sexually. African descendants should not be trying to use the language of the Bible, Quran, or Torah to derive direction or meaning in how they express their consciousness on this Earth. Connect to nature, ground yourself, and look within. You already have all the answers to attract the outcome in which you desire and to live in harmony with your brothers and sisters. Peace ✌🏿

[@blvckzulu9469]

Freckle doesnt matter where they originated or if the people in the stories are African. If you are bound by doctrine you are always going to be limited in your connection to higher consciousness or in the way you can express your own consciousness. They all are derivatives and dilutions of even older teachings and religion will always be a way to separate us regardless if many still find communion in their various religions. Find self and author your reality love 🙂

[@tmaposa]

Some African religions are monotheistic though. Also Christianity is not white. There are no white ppl in the bible. The location of the garden of Eden is described in the book of Genesis as being in a place called Cush.

[@blvckzulu9469]

T Maposa that’s fine but there’s a difference between subscribing to a doctrine that personifies an omnipotent and omniscient being as a singular entity that displays human characteristics and between believing in a universal presence that exists within everything and at the same time has individual expressions of itself. I understand where you’re coming from, but to address your comment. I singled out these religions specifically due to the widespread negative impact and implications these doctrines have had on African people historically and how they continue to hamper our societal development and spiritual ascension presently. You are correct when discussing the ethnicity of people’s mentioned in the stories of the Bible, but it doesn’t change the fact that the text itself is wholly derivative from previous spiritual beliefs and practices with influence from European society. The traditional African religions I’ve studied typically are what you call Monotheistic but they have other deities or spirits that embody specific aspects of the “monotheistic god” you reference but are recognized, revered, and worshipped in a specific and separate manner with respect to the original source. There’s a difference to be appreciated here family. Peace ✌🏿

[@CreativeReptiles]

My mom brought home that damn book and it almost drove me to suicide. I hate that ex gay "author" her book is as toxic as conversion therapy. I literally stopped talking to my mom for months and when i finally did i told her to never suggest any book like that to me ever again

[@jennyneutron6748]

The discussion of the dissociation of the flesh from the spirit is something that I have been thinking about for a while and it it so useful! 40:30. The bit ends at 49:20. I did not agree with every part, but I do feel that the metal detachment from our bodies as a part of our spiritually is both harmful to the psyche and contradictory to some of the teaching within Christianity. Case in point. The concept of Soul Ties.

[@mmekomabasi9777]

I really love and appreciate this platform and Kim’s voice in the Black community. However, I couldn’t really take this discussion seriously. I didn’t see them crack the Bible open once. (Maybe I missed it.)A lot of personal opinion took precedence over what the Bible ACTUALLY says. I also felt a lot of church hurt and misunderstanding seep through this discussion. I think it would be beneficial to bring JPH on. I don’t think this should be the last video on this topic.

[@KillDjay]

Because the discussion over a dispute of how we uphold sacred text and how we are taught to regurgitate it. By opening the book and reading it, as it’s translated by colonizers, they would be doing the exact thing they are discouraging, which perpetuated a sheeplike mentality amongst followers of organized religion which in and of itself is a flawed concept.

[@mmekomabasi9777]

This my point though. What kind of Christianity are you referring to? Everything you mentioned is NOT true Christianity. God never said to enslave or oppress Black people. That is man’s perverted interpretation. In order to understand the true essence of Christianity the Bible must be read and understood, not to affirm one’s own ideas/beliefs but to understand the true character of God the Father Son and Holy Spirit.

[@daseanclark5462]

agree with you 100%. i like hearing other perspectives, but it was a bit frustrating especially from Candance who I think mentioned she went to seminary, for them to not open the Bible once and clarify things. they just perpetuated stereotypes and doubts that most ppl have, based off halftruths or misinterpretations and misuses of the Bible.

[@AlwaysAmeera]

This conversation brought tears to my eyes it was so good!!! Ughhhhhhhhhhhh! ❤️❤️❤️

[@shiru400]

"Those categories don't serve us, including those genres (of the human) and gender categories". Zora Hamsa (Wynter and Spillers told us)

[@zenzibell]

Thanks for this episode. I know of a Black transwoman who has come to the conclusion that Black cis women treat her terribly, white women and men have been wonderful to her, so she's written off the sistas as trash. I hope she sees this video.

[@ricarsha64]

Ugh! I'm so glad you had this conversation. A few weeks ago, I was looking for discussions about the kevonstage video/affirming the LGBTQ+ community while serving God but all I found was "love the sinner, hate the sin" propaganda. Thanks, Kim

[@danisacademiccorner4493]

I think it would have been interesting to have someone who share the same thoughts as Jackie Hill Perry, or ven Jackie herself, to have been part of this discussion. Candace and Zora pretty much have the same views so it was really just one perspective we got to hear

[@ManningInterpreter]

It could have been interesting, yes. But, you can google any Christian video and find those thoughts and beliefs. Jackie’s perspective is the predominant view. Having two of these opposing voices on is huge, because you’ll rarely find individuals espousing their amazing views in any mainstream way, which is sad and so unfortunate. They are rare, but so important. Jackie is just the new face of the same view that has been predominate for years. Yes, she has some unique perspectives, but it’s mostly a new spokesperson for the same old stuff. I also just think that Jackie and these two individuals work from SUCH a different underlying premise that it wouldn’t be a super fruitful discussion.

[@shakeitlikeanaries128]

@@ManningInterpreter Yess, debate between opposing parties isn't always more insightful. After this deepdive that I haven't heard before as a listener you can reflect for yourself how it relates to other views that can easily be heard on other platforms. Practice the critical thinking that these two women preach.

[@jermen5137]

This conversation is something that I wish all religious people could sit and watch and truly consider. They seem to disregard so much or reality and nature, but live completely by unquestioned traditions and word of mouth teachings and that has been very harmful and dangerous. And I love that this conversation included the context of race within this country because we have a different experience with religion that seems to be paired with fear, survival, and suffering that has uniquely created way too many contradictions, and has allowed self hate, and outward violence to be so common thing within the Black American community.

[@CreoleKing1986]

Zora said"right" so many times. Lol I loved this talk, though.

[@KiaFlow]

I can't stop hearing it, but I also relate because I say "ummm" or "you know what I'm saying" a lot when I'm speaking off the dome! She lowkey preaching 🤣❤🖤

[@witch6977]

Rightttttt

[@JaylonBrooke]

Zora - we are not the congregation. You can talk regularly and the message will still be received.

[@gooonicorn]

I’m not ashamed to say that I consider myself gay, but most this conversation went over my head. Im glad though because I want to know more and explore much of what they were saying.

[@brittdavis1]

Lol i was just telling my wife (who is a very knowledgeable christian) this last night. I not bible familiar so yeah, the biblical part of it went over my head too. But it was a great educational convo 👌🏾🌈

[@parksmusings216]

they articulated things i didn’t have the language for but have always felt. i need to listen to this over and over

[@ferozalekota1722]

Drunk off all the times Zora mentioned the word 'right'

[@k.alvarado6237]

I listened to this and thought of “prosperity preaching” Trying to make everything sound good and easy. Jesus went through trials and tribulations. Jesus had to withstand temptation. Do y’all think that those of us who call ourselves Christians won’t have to do the same. Everybody has their “sin of choice” that’s hard to shake.

[@DeeDee-zu2pv]

One's identity is not a "sin of choice". Christians like you are the reason young black people are leaving the church in droves.

[@k.alvarado6237]

Dee Dee - If you identify with something God is against.... its a sin.

[@jermen5137]

A persons sexuality isn’t a “sin of choice” simply because it’s not a choice....so what you even talking about. Some of y’all need to think before you speak.

[@k.alvarado6237]

Jermen - acting on those feelings is a sin. What’s “natural” to you can be sinful. People are straight up pedophiles . I’m sure they would say they are born this way and it’s their sexuality. Still acting on it is wrong.

[@cher_melancholy]

K Aaron Why are you comparing pedophilia to grown people having attraction to other adults?

[@23ahndra]

To be fair, Kevonstage ALSO had Candice Benbow on. Her perspective is ALOT more akin to these ladies’. He was trying to get a lot of different perspectives.

[@GeeSmith333]

Yes! I loved her talk. I actually liked the series he was starting to do and I hate that he stalled it. It's interesting to see how different everyone's personal walk with God is.

[@swiggs_7]

True. But it was cowardly of him to remove JHP's interview.

[@23ahndra]

S W it was the opposite of cowardly. He took it down because he saw that it was causing literal HARM to people. He was trying to do the RIGHT thing.

[@swiggs_7]

@@23ahndra It was not causing harm. People could either watch it or not. People did not like it because they felt invalidated by another person who made the choice to not act out on same sex attraction. That's it. As a Black woman, there are is a ton of harmful content on this platform, I can either engage with it or not.

[@swiggs_7]

@@23ahndra Plus Candace Benbow is blasphemous and many of Kev's followers expressed dismay over the interview...but Kev kept it on his channel anyway.

[@dariusd2003]

I love the conversation but I'm struggling to understand the comment "what kind of God would" in reference to desires of the flesh and your state of happiness. If you're someone that enjoys gang bangs and drugs, using Candace's perspective, you could justify those behaviors and feel your God would be pleased. Am I off base here? 🤔

[@23ahndra]

I don’t think you are off base. I do, however, think it does come down to intent. Doing a brief bit of shadow work would likely uncover a desire to do self harm or escape in the person who “enjoys” those acts. It that right, those behaviors would probably not please God. JMO.

[@brieoliver]

@@23ahndra I was coming to say exactly this. Gang bangs and drug use actually runs counter to what Candance is saying. Individuals who are engaging in behaviors that degrade or harm others and themselves are doing so because they are broken. Also, these are not activities that bring you closer to God, which is the point of this conversation. God would never ask you to perpetuate harm and suffer to be close to Him.

[@ginahall5805]

It has to do with harming others or even yourself. These things should be avoided.

[@Lil08103]

@Fywp Fywp why are you so hostile when the person is clearly asking a question? and bc this "doctrine" above is more human-centered than God-centered, it is quite possible to deduce that they believe that "bc i feel it, and God loves me, it is if it hurts nobody".

[@durranofthetower7306]

@@ginahall5805 And what if the gang bangs are hurting no one? I don't know that much about Christianity but isn't the point of Christianity to deny oneself to please the Christian God? Didn't the bible say the pleasures of this life were fleeting and pointless and the one goal was to get to heaven? Cause ya'lls doctrine changes so regularly its hard to keep track.

[@bonnobalopi]

Man this has truly inspired me to go back to reading my bible. This conversation were thoughts and pondering I did not have the words for, thank you so much Kim, Candance and Zora. This is so important.

[@tcrump212IsLmbrJck_t]

Count how many times you hear 'right,' right? Take a shot every time. You'd be dead, right? Also, this conversation is, quintessentially, foundational as a turning point for holistic healing within our species. Y'all did that.

[@yvvngmlaba]

deadass x

[@harmony323]

Omg I noticed that too. Is this a new trend for academic types to constantly use the word “right”??

[@maryriver2311]

Omg it hurt my spirit to keep hearing her say right right RIGHT RIGHT. Kim may say it every once in a while but this lady overdid it, RIGHT?

[@tamerraj6381]

Sooo distracting

[@josryder7841]

I knew I couldn’t be the only one...and once you focus in on it you cant UNHEAR IT😩. Is this some new Black academic tic?

[@SmartArtzzz]

I sincerely wish I had more ministers like these women in my life.

[@frankh.5378]

Sin is not what you feel. Sin is doing anything against or disobeying the Word of God. This is why God says 'we (you and I) like sheeps have gone astray each of us turn to his/her own way, and God laid on Him (Jesus) the iniquities of us all.'

[@jusletursoulglobaby]

Zora says "right" wwwwaaaayyyyyy too much. it's soooooooooooo distracting. soooooooooooo distracting

[@__-nd5qi]

I love Kim but her framework for a lot of the discussions about religion and such just isn't my fave. There's a lense of how we are already accepting x y and z as truths, and not looking at a wider scale that only seems to happen in her discussions regarding anything religious. And so it skews what's being said to be open to real easy nitpicking that undermines a lot of truth in what's being said. For example: the theological basis isn't formed here in the beginning. The explanation and minor context about scripture vs tradition vs history isn't made clear so like , a criticism about defining sin outside of text is super easy to dismantle even though like , two sentences could have addressed that. Religion is personal. But it's political weight means you need to consider both inside and outside factors in just how to approach the discussion. Which I think Kim does well for like...anything else. But her religion videos are always her weakest ones imo because she doesn't question or expand nearly as much

[@SteppingOut957]

If this is an accurate reflection of prevalent thought within the American church, then it is in deep deep trouble.

[@ReinaElizondo]

Love the quote from Candace: I need to get out of here alive and well.

[@joeyjose727]

“Is Jesus hazing you?” Lmao

[@communismenjoyer1858]

i want to become financially stable and sub to her patron so badddddd

[@yvvngmlaba]

ugh, this was such a beautiful conversation. had to watch it twice and thrice just to make notes and digest everything that was said. thank you Candace, Zora and you too Kim x

[@mommslooney1731]

I'm 15 mins in but I have to say I'm concerned. My first red flag was the whole sin opener and literally no one quoted scripture. I also feel like their race and gender is also an idol. Dangerous. First of all, Jesus is very ethnically ambiguous it's great. We know he's brown, has eyes of ember I want to say and hair like a sheep's wool. And even then, I wonder if they're even referring to its color rather than just texture. So how contradictory would it be of God to be all "whites only saved" when Jesus was brown. Plus we were made as image barers of God. Clearly if he has created man in all hues his diversity is depicted a bit in us. And how much sense would that make if he gave is His word and said "I made black and brown people but I don't like y'all and y'all aint in the plan." And the meaning of "neither Jew nor gentile, slave or freed, male of female" galatians 3:28 was the whole repurposing of our identity. If we are in Christ, we are now Christian, meaning to be like Christ, meaning everything else becomes secondary and that's actually freeing. I don't have to worry about being the most culturally "gentile" or the most female female or whether or not I'm employed or the most economically liberated. (Because slavery was servitude, which was most likely what you were doing if you weren't working for your aunt or had your own business. I mean, it's modern day employment. American slavery however was totally not biblical. In exodus (I want to say) He even said it's bad (sin) to take people from their homeland amd that's exactly what the people did). And even when we are in this walk we are met with a lot of grace because he knows we can't be as perfect as Christ. We trust that His sacrifice on the cross is our way to the Father. And that's why the Gospel is so unique and central to our being. The Bible isn't some moralist text on all we have to do to be right with God. It's what God did so we could be with Him.

[@matkim5512]

This is not a religious conversation. For people who are supposed to be ministers, they're views are completely un-scriptural. What sin is, is completely defined in the Bible and does not need interpretation or to be guessed about. "That is why, just as through one man sin entered into the world and death through sin," (Romans 5:12). If you want to condone homosexuality, go right ahead, but don't do it on the basis of the Bible because its simply untrue. " Or do you not know that unrighteous people will not inherit God's Kingdom? Do not be misled. Those who are sexually immoral, idolaters, adulterers, men who submit to homosexual acts, men who practice homosexuality" (1 Corinthians 6:9) Its very simple.

[@lynn.1998]

The bible that is in its fiftyleventh translation... the bible that originally never said anything about homosexuality...

[@blubbydragon5381]

And in what edition was that revision made?

[@k.alvarado6237]

Lynn. - Can you point us to the original reference of the Bible that doesn’t say these things.

[@lynn.1998]

blubby dragon Practically of them starting with the KJV. The famous Romans verse about a man laying with man, originally spoke on pedophilia and not homosexuality. The word homosexual never showed up in the bible until 1946, with the RSV translation. In my eyes, every version out there now is translated to fit a specific agenda, since none of them reflect the original documents.

[@imanigordon6803]

Lynn. It’s seems people want to label it pedophilia to push there specific narrative 🤦🏾‍♂️ I can see the translation being misconstrued but I also see a lot of people trying to form a new narrative around the Bible which is very concerning to me as a Christian ✝️. If you want to say the Bible didn’t said anything against homosexuality then fine, but for me the Bible was straight forward within genesis that he made Eve the perfect half for Adam. This spawned humanity itself. God didn’t make this any other way 🤷🏾‍♂️ the sin passed down through generations spawned homosexuality and transgenderism. None were present at the dawn of man. I completely understand why these defects would be praised now in society because we as humans cling onto our pleasures now rather then the truth that’s been aligned for us since the start. Either way this is all leading to revelations in my opinion we’re all screwed we strayed to far from are paths and worship new idols of race, gender and sex , money, celebrates, status. We’re truly done for 😂

[@msjigglypuff91]

Can one truly be lgbt and christian? If you pick and choose what to follow in the religion, are you actually a Christian? And why would anyone want to be a part of something that denies and ridicules their existence?

[@holicaholicatrinity]

I think the point of the conversation is that communities have and always will pick and choose what parts of the religion suit them and their wellbeing. Black American civil rights movements are essentially an affront to a lot of messages in the bible, but we understand that the Black Christian community as a whole have chosen what way to interpret the text making it just as valid. White Americans have long overlooked the bibles stance on usury, running banks and lending money at interest but we understand the way groups of people change their interpretation of the text over time and their material conditions.

[@ericcartman1012]

kutie k There is no lgbt lifestyle (I personally believe) it’s just someone you want to date. That’s it. It’s not a personality trait. ^.^

[@maryriver2311]

Great convo! But please let Zora know she has to do away with the word “right”. It’s very distracting because my brain likes to find things like this and I can’t pay attention to the video. Right is the new um and equally annoying. It’s okay to let phrases breathe.

[@ceemariejaye5453]

Mary River i don’t know how this became so common these last few years. I hear it a lot, usually people attempting to sound profound

[@liteflightify]

Some people do experience things like fluidity, growing or lessening paraphiliacs, contradictions or confusions concerning where they are in the romantic, sexual, affection, emotional, relationship spectrum. That’s something we need to accept. But accepting that should not equate to promoting homophobia, internalized homophobia, hetero pressures, gay inferiority, etc. Religious and family pressure is one thing. But sex is so much of part of ego and can be a part of monetary gains. While identity is so political. Everything is so damn messy. Being real with each other and accepting one of another is what’s best. But of course, that’s better said than done.

[@imjustsayingthough2261]

First one to comment. Now I can watch and enjoy 😊

[@user-rm1lm3rt7e]

Are u a Leo?

[@imjustsayingthough2261]

anna Theamazing : yes, Why?

[@user-rm1lm3rt7e]

@@imjustsayingthough2261 because u wanted to make sure ur comment was first 😊✨

[@adriarchy]

Jesus is a social activist, a protestor. Like that's what I got out of this and so I have a feeling to read the bible for the first time lol

[@vanessatrotter69]

🙋🏾‍♀️👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾👑👑👑👑😭👑👑👑👑👑

[@MrPunchthru2dub]

Welcoming + Affirming have NEVER been words that describe Christianity. Divisive and Violent suits it much better.

[@raven3moon]

That's not completely true, though. The "never" part, I mean. It was very pluralistic and inclusive during the first two to two-and-a-half centuries. The biggest, most enduring, problem came after the First and Second Councils of Nicaea. There were plenty of sects/communities that were a lot more like egalitarian/hippie communes. Some didn't believe in marriage between people, because that reinforced feelings of ownership and jealousy. Children were raised by the community and not just the birth parents, a large portion of money made by the members would be shared among the community for the common good. Women could be priests, bishops and archbishops. And preaching to the church, leading rituals and ceremonies, baptisms, christenings, etc., were all rotated among the members of the community so that everyone had a turn. Plus, the Pterine and Paulian Churches, before they merged into one Catholic Church, had a habit of destroying the writings of sect they didn't agree with, so there may well have been texts elevating non-heterosexual love and relationships...texts certainly still exist praising the accepted homoeroticism of the ascetic desert monk's/nun's relationship to God/Jesus and Sophia/Mary, in mystical Christianity. TW: Leviticus 18:22 and 20:13 are mistranslations (whether deliberate or accidental). The correct translation is Lev 18:22 "You shall not lie with a BOY as with a woman; it is an abominaton." And Lev 20:13 "If a man lies with a BOY as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall be put to death; their blood is upon them." Generally, if an actual rule needs to be made, and repeated, it usually means it was a pretty big problem. Of course, it doesn't even address blaming the victim (usually a young boy captured after his family had been slaughtered in front of him.)

[@serazvi5387]

@@raven3moon wait wait wait back up. "They both shall be put to death"? As in, if an adult man takes advantage of a boy sexually, the boy gets executed too? I know that's a bit off topic from the point you're making but I felt the need to point that bit out....

[@imanigordon6803]

Nah you just hate Christianity just say how you feel dude

[@MrPunchthru2dub]

@@imanigordon6803 History is on my side fam! Christian's ability to actively dismiss the violence that Christianity has done to the world always baffles me. Cognitive dissonance at its finest. SMH yal are cray

[@imanigordon6803]

Lj there has been violence from every religion... why just call out Christianity I wonder 🤔🤔🤔😂👌🏾

[@capucinej9319]

I thiiiink the original title for this video was "Black Jesus doesn't want you..." and I get why you changed it, but I highkey loved it lol

[@samuri2011]

Wowowowowowow! I am blown away with this! Absolutely on point and so logical and intuitive. I love Black women 💙💙💙💙💙🙋🏾‍♀️🙋🏾‍♀️🙋🏾‍♀️ we're so amazing

[@vanessatrotter69]

YES👑👑👑👑👑👑👑👑

[@arincaveney5764]

Thank you Harriet for making these videos about Christianity. I've followed your channel for a little bit but it has been so cool to see you dive into discussing religion. (I also watched the video you did with Jemar Tisby which was super interesting and educational. I've been working my way through his book.) I've been a long journey to reconcile my desire to be a person of faith while also affirming LGBTQ+ folks. I grew up in an Evangelical household. My mom was very hostile and fearful towards gay people when I was growing up (and still is). She would give my elementary school principle literature about the threat of the "gay agenda." I used to get into arguments with my classmates about why is was wrong to be gay. It has been a long and painful process to unlearn these harmful lessons. I stopped going to church while I was in college. I started to attend a church after I graduated college a year ago. I wanted to reconnect with Christianity but it later became clear that this church and the friends I had made were not LGBTQ+ affirming. My one friend who had also became a sort of mentor had a conversation with me about why ultimately being gay does not align with "living holy" and she gave Jackie Hill Perry as evidence as to why gay people can "choose" to live a heterosexual/celibate life. I was so hurt and disturbed by this conversation, but I shouldn't have been surprised. I am looking for other churches and online communities. It is really painful to separate oneself from something that feels so familiar but is ultimately poisoning you and others. Watching these videos and finding other channels and podcasts that cover these topics has been super helpful and makes this whole process less isolating. Thank you for all that you do.

[@lovelydeath04]

This shirt and necklace gives me romantic celestial vibes. I love it!!!

[@daseanclark5462]

Zora says she wouldn't want to deny her desires or struggle daily, that it's toxic or violent to the body; that's her right to think of course, just wanna throw this out here> Galatians 5:13-26, Matthew 16:24-26, Romans 8:17. All Christians give up sins they love or enjoy when coming to Christ, due to the exclusive nature of Jesus' call to repentance and faith in Him. However, through His sacrifice we're cleansed & made free from sin, given new desires- the desire to follow Him & do His will. granted, that may take some time but we learn to appreciate His way, over our own. Jesus promises we'll struggle or face persecution in following Him- i can admit firsthand that really sucks & is inconvenient most times but it's okay bc He also promises we'll be rewarded for enduring, anddd as we overcome, we're a living testimony for others going through similar situations. Plus with the help of the Holy Spirit, Christians have a peace and joy in the midst of this struggle anyway; some days may be harder than others but as a whole, like any other loving relationship, the sacrifice is worth it for the One who, despite our sin against Him, first loved us. Point being: the sacrifice for God is much more, sure, but isn't any different than sacrifices we willingly endure on a daily, without hesitation sometimes, for other things we love and idolize, e.i, luxuries, healthy bodies, relationships, jobs, education, our kids etc. why think the Creator of the Universe, who knows better for our lives than we do, would ask for anything less?

[@MrMagikBananas]

I’m so glad that the Black community is progressing to the point where these conversations are being had. Thank you

[@guhsuckyamudda586]

5:28-5:52 Gentrification isn’t sin, and being born in sin isn’t a result of “systems that conspire against our flourishing.” The hell is this broad talking about? A sin is transgression of the law, pursuant to I John 3:4. What law does gentrification infract? Furthermore, if she’s unsure if engaging in homosexual (or non-heterosexual) acts with the same sex is a sin or not, then she should start with Leviticus 18:22. That should hopefully offer a cogent and concise answer to what’s stipulated constantly throughout the Bible pertaining to same-sex sexual/intimate intercourse.

[@samites690]

all of this is heresy or a gross misunderstanding of the Bible. First Jesus came in the flesh so that he could restore us to our original nature in the garden of Eden where our only affection was for God. THEN our flesh and spirit didn't war against each other because humans existed in obedience to God and in harmony with Him, enjoying all the pleasures he had given them in the garden. However, in this fallen world, the struggle is to deny our flesh SO that our spirits can be free to love God INSTEAD of the world. Jesus, tells us in Mathew 16:24, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me. Galatians 5:16 T his I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh. For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other. Additionally, Jesus came in the flesh and did none of the things of the flesh that humans are guilty of. That is why he is our savior. Galatians 5:19-21 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law. Finally, Galatians 5 calls all Christians to deny the flesh when Paul writes And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts. f we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit. More bible verses Romans 8:13 ESV For if you live according to the flesh you will die, but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. Romans 8:6 ESV For to set the mind on the flesh is death, but to set the mind on the Spirit is life and peace. 1 Peter 2:11 ESV Beloved, I urge you as sojourners and exiles to abstain from the passions of the flesh, which wage war against your soul. Romans 8:7 ESV For the mind that is set on the flesh is hostile to God, for it does not submit to God's law; indeed, it cannot. Romans 8:8 ESV / Those who are in the flesh cannot please God. Use these verses as an opportunity to examine your response to God's love. Jesus suffered for you and me so that we could escape the just punishment we deserved for our sins. How will you respond to his love?

[@taliquetaylor8039]

Christianity is the faith of the oppressed. Jesus Christ, God incarnate, came to liberate the oppressed. Womanism and Black liberation theology are life giving. I LOVED this talk

[@naomirichards5165]

What’s really interesting here is that Jackie is being misquoted, quite a few times and though Kimberly and the panelist’s, have done research on some aspects of what Jackie has said, they haven’t fully understood what Jackie has..been saying..across her full body of work. And then have also extrapolated a quote from an artistic expression (her poem) to her entire gender world view..which is poor..and contradictory to what Jackie has expounded upon in other videos and in her podcast. Making a judgement on one piece of someone’s work..is poor work..she has expounded upon many of the things you’re misquoting her on and therefore undone the assumptions you’ve made.This conversation is operating out of a different world view and that world view is not a Christian world view. Not understanding that in order to truly practice Bible believing Christianity - all the “white evangelical chat aside” which is false and dangerous in itself - you need to hold the Bible as the in-errant word of God. And all of the mis-understanding around sin and in fact defining sin- outside of the Bible- which demonstrates a lot. This panel clearly doesn’t believe that the Bible is the in-errant word of God and so this discussion can only go so far. You’re attempting to discredit Jackies work by coming from a different..non- Christian worldview...which is fine..critique is encouraged..however it’s like you’re playing different sports. You can’t disqualify what she’s saying with what you’re saying. It maketh no sense. Sometimes, some things are just not for you. In addition, Jackie has never spewed hate, preached for the denial of rights, preached for the disregarding of the community that is the LGBTQ community and so let’s not imply those things. And then finally!! Blaming Jackie and “people like her” for other people’s mid-understanding and wielding of Gods word as a weapon is so janky and so false.

[@stephaniecole4651]

This was an award-winning conversation. Chills, chills chills 🥶 I feel my super powers growing!

[@melaniebruton1831]

Ok I can track with Candice I don't agree with everything she says however she had some really great nuggets of wisdom. Zora on the other hand truthfully was frustrating for me to to listen to because she has so much fluff. Like saying big words slowly without making an actual point is frustrating for me. Like "black people arn't human"???? What!!!! I am not trying to be harsh but sis....C'mon

[@macummings7818]

This makes me sad as a believer and someone learning who Jesus/God really is This is obviously sensitive and erudite thinking 🏵️- but it ain't the gospel as per the Bible... And for those looking for that, you're leading people astray! 💔

[@DiamondStylz]

MY GIRL CANDACE....LOVE HER

[@candacesimpson4086]

Hey girl!!!!! 💋

[@jocelynharris3708]

“Well branded hatred” exactly!!!

[@AdeTelevised]

I am so thankful for this space you have created Kimberly. And I am thankful for Candace and Zora for their generosity. What this conversation does is beyond words and yet the words are right at my fingertips: present, embodied, and alive. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you!

[@gabriellucas5494]

Right off the bat you got sin wrong

[@gabriellucas5494]

and made it a race issue

[@adwoamk8918]

This is quite disturbing, several things that are said are the straight up opposite of what the bible says. Leading people astray, the comments proof that.

[@j.l.l.921]

Okay so when y’all doing the part two????

[@AJ-cq5pw]

I'm an atheist but absolutely loved this conversation. Makes me think differently about black Christianity

[@cosmicneuromelanatedgoddess]

This conversation was needed. The title didn't match, but whatever... Still I needed to see and hear this message, it makes you think!