No Oils, No Butters ???? | A Conversation between 2 Curly Stylists and a Cosmetic Chemist | Ep 2

Back in October 2023 Christin ( @CurlFactor ) shared a post on IG about coconut oils stirred a bit of controversy.
Black Girl Curls has been discussing oils and butters since 2016...it's actually the topic that many of you may know us for.
After a very lengthy discussion Christin and I thought it would be a great idea to have a conversation with respected expert in the cosmetic chemistry field. Someone who could add more context from their experience as a formulator.
We invited Javon Ford to join us to discuss coconut oil which turned into us chatting about oils, butters and even grease.
This conversation is long but it's full of gems!
"If not oils and butters, what do we do to moisturize our hair?"
All you need to do is cleanse, condition and style your hair. If you haven't clue of what to do, how to do it or even what to do it with we like to invite you to subscribe to our private SeeSomeCurls course community. SeeSomeCurls SeeSomeCurls is our digital course community that provides tailored guidance for how to properly care for your tight curly + natural hair.
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[@avery1716]

I love learning more and more about natural hair from you professionals. I listened to this whole episode while doing my wash day today. Great info!

[@BlackGirlCurls]

We love that this totally bingeable while shampooing your hair!!

[@hereforit2347]

I started pressing my hair myself in the mid 1970s when I was ten years old. I always used hair grease. When hair grease fell out of fashion in the late 70s, I stopped using it. I wasn’t able to retain as much length as a result and it was obvious. Oils and grease definitely made a difference. 100%.

[@brendawarner4854]

My God this was so good!!! Thanks!!!❤

[@ms.mitchell2799]

The braids pov is interesting bcuz all I wore in the 90’s was braids, they were everywhere esp on tv and never got that Afro centric label. In my city/bubble/environments at least. And I’m so embarrassed to say I did the bentonite clay treatment, rahssoul clay wash, the greenhouse method, coconut oil, diy aloe pre poo, kitchen made Shea butter mix, acv rinse, chebe powder treatment… my hair & scalp hated me!!! But now I’m going on 3 yrs (July) since I started following your advice and my hair is the best it’s ever been. I returned natural in 09, did my last big chop in 2020. My hair has reached more health and I’ve retained so much more length & density (that Idek I had 😅) in 3 yrs than I did in that 10 listening to YT University. It’s soft, consistently hydrated, flows. It’s like I have somebody else’s hair atp 😂 AND IVE SAVED SO MUCH MONEY not feeling the need to try products!!

[@sonjahanner5317]

This sounds exactly like my testimony, you're not alone. It's liberating 😊

[@BlackGirlCurls]

You know what let me say that my POV on the braids was based as someone living in Chicago. Chicago was not kind to braids in the 90s.

[@BlackGirlCurls]

And please don’t be embarrassed. You have pushed through and are on the other side of it now. I hope you’re at least chuckling at yourself.

[@hopeful9160]

Also hair is mostly genetics! I had long hair with Jerry curl,over processed perms,natural hair with hella oil and now,following the no oils and butters . My hair beautiful. I’m an inpatient Aries so I keep it corn rolled and use different styles of crotchet braids. Some of us will never had butt length hair!

[@Lisa_Flowers]

I have to say I feel so (lovingly) dragged by the earliest part of this video 😂 you really summarised everything I have genuinely thought about hair because of the natural hair community. I don't think I ever believed oil moisturised hair per se, but I definitely believed it sealed in moisturise. I'm trying to be open minded to the idea that might be wrong. I think a lot of naturals have been so burned by hair stylists who destroyed or talked down to our hair (many of whom probably weren't even licensed cosmetologists and just owned or worked in salons without qualifications). So there's a DIY attitude that also includes a lot of mistrust towards stylists. I don't think my mistrust is entirely gone, but i'm listening and trying new things. So far I have cut out oils and i'm focusing on cleansing, conditioning, and styling and want to see where it goes.

[@keina2121]

I can speak to the bentonite clay mask. I was listening to everyone saying co wash only, sleep in deep conditioner, oils, butters, etc. i did a clay mask once about 4 years ago and exactly what you said happened. It stripped my hair of EVERYTHING, and it was the first time i had ever seen my hair actually curl. I’ve never had to do it again. I stopped all of that other stuff and just began to shampoo and deep condition and ever since then my hair has flourished

[@BlackGirlCurls]

All you had to do is wash your hair…thank goodness, you’re on the other side of it all.

[@keina2121]

@@BlackGirlCurls that’s definitely an “if i knew then what i know now moment” lol i just didn’t know any better. That was just some context on why people are so into the clay masks, it’s literally just doing what a clarifying shampoo does…i was just throwing spaghetti at the wall to see what would stick lol

[@BlackGirlCurls]

@@keina2121 throwing spaghetti at the wall is literally some people’s approach to natural hair.

[@Lisa_Flowers]

​@BlackGirlCurls yet to listen to the whole conversation, so if this is addressed, ignore this question. If bentonite clay masks essentially do what a clarifying shampoo does, can I just use that as my clarifying shampoo, at least short term? Asking because I have the ingredients to make the mask but don't yet have a clarifying shampoo, and if they do similar things I'd like to at least use what I have before buying something new.

[@hereforit2347]

The only time I avoid or forego oils is when I want my hair to have bounce and body and move, flow, and blow in the wind. And that’s ONLY when my hair is straightened (flat ironed). Because heat really is bad for our hair, I don’t straighten mine often. But if I’m getting ready to flat iron my hair, it’s the only time I make sure my hair is “clarified”. Aside from that, hair needing to be “detoxed”, “clarified”, and stripped of oils (natural or otherwise) and product in order to be HEALTHY and able to absorb moisture is a complete *MYTH.*

[@disneytoysr4fun975]

Clearly you are using cheap trash products like eco styler because anyone who is using a quality botanical gel will tell you that there is no need for oils and butters! Either that or you aren’t washing your hair regularly, and if thats the case then dry hair should be the last thing on your mind because im questioning your bathing habits or lackerof🤢

[@hereforit2347]

@@disneytoysr4fun975: I didn’t even mention bathing so you made that up. Secondly, I CLEANSE my hair weekly. I question your reading and comprehension skills. And if my hair weren’t healthy, dense, and hip length I might not be laughing at your asinine comment. 😂

[@ossier2796]

I hated coconut oil, besides staining my car seat headrest it made my hair feel oily and dry at the same time. Riding myself of raw oils and butters is the best thing that happened to my hair. I hated that my hair had no movement when my grandma put grease and pressed it.

[@candi1904]

coconut oil pre-poo is the best thing ever for my hair, because it strenghtens my hair, No if i used this as an after wash day oil, it would have my hair feeling like straw

[@janestreet2634]

I like natural oils and butters. I've tried ommitting them, but without oils and butters my hair becomes super dry and brittle. My hair is still moisturized after my monthly shampoo and then styled in braids (no hair added) that were done with oils and it feels so smooth and silky and that was months ago. My hair is mid back length, by the way. It may work for some to remove them, but it does not work for me.

[@BlackGirlCurls]

We love that you’re doing what works for you. We will say that it isn’t just the removal of oils and butters that we introduced naturals to. We actually introduced naturals to creating routines that involved cleansing, conditioning and styling every 7-14 days. Regular cleansing is essential to moisture as we explained here in the video hydration/moisture comes from water and the hair can only absorb water when it’s free and clear of dirt, oil, buildup and environmental debris.

[@Lisa_Flowers]

Y'all that's EXACTLY what happened to me with bentonite clay, which I did only once to be fair. I have low porosity hair and low density hair and this was at a time when I was using shea butter and oils because that was the norm in the natural hair community. I was also slathering my hair with way too much product because that's what I saw everyone else doing. Add that onto co washing? Of course I had product build up to the gods!! I think the bentonite clay did exactly what you said, it sucked everything out and so I saw my hair texture for the first time. I'm wondering if you would entirely recommend against doing it even just once to properly clarify my hair of product buld up before just focusing on cleansing, conditioning, and styling? Or should I never touch it again and just use an actual clarifying shampoo lol (i asked a similar thing in another comment). I already have the clay, so if it's fine i'd like to use it before buying something new if it's fine to use just once or very rarely.

[@MoniMeka]

I used the Mousse Def once. I liked it for the lost part. The hold was too much, though. It's too expensive for me also. I use the Lottabody wrap foam now. I love It! It has coconut oil in it. It's like $3.98 at Wal-Mart.

[@BlackGirlCurls]

Happy to hear you found something that you like to use.

[@sweetpea3249]

Javon 😍❤

[@valand1205]

This was interesting! I wish Javon would have gotten the chance to talk more. I noticed Javon had a lot of opinions when asked direct questions, particularly towards the end.

[@michelleej]

Me too. I wish she would have prepared questions in advance for him. We didn't benefit from his expertise because of the questions asked.

[@cherylgalloway4511]

Big Beyonce fan here, and I do agree with Wonnie about the edges, because I was looking too. Beyoncé has Neil now,but she had Kim Kimble before him, and was her mother(a licensed cosmetologist) before that.

[@STLlove]

I am SO big into smells!! I returned AG Boost shampoo because of the smell. It was a NO for me... I check every oil before using-. If there is any 'tang', it goes right in the trash.

[@hereforit2347]

Just because some of us are focused on or committed to length retention doesn’t mean we’re “obsessed”. I take offense to that. In my mid 20s I cut my hair very short (it was healthy and not breaking off, thinning, or falling out). I deliberately wore my hair very short for the better part of ten years. I *loved* my short hair! Not only was it sexy and jazzy it was versatile. It was also great because I was a busy working mom. On top of that, I was able to play around with color because damage was much less of an issue because I was continually cutting my hair.

[@800mEric]

They're going to shame ya'll that want length because their whole entire cuting style isn't for length retention lol, it's only for style and that style they're going stops around the shoulders.

[@hereforit2347]

@@800mEric: What they’re doing and focusing on is all Kool and the Gang. But why come for everybody else? That’s just weird and unnecessary.

[@800mEric]

@@hereforit2347 because of money, they want money from everyone by making themselves the only game in town so to speak.

[@Chilair1]

Wow I felt my perspective change based on this convo. I met with a hairstylist in 2017 when I was two yrs into being natural who told me to stop using shea butter and that gel was enough. I listened to her and thankfully my hair isn’t too damaged. But it was always a little thin, and I’ve been dying it for years. Finally discovered color depositing conditioner and olaplex and K18 and I’m feeling a little better about it. I wonder how to stimulate more hair growth and protect what I have despite the fact that I dyew it every 2mo

[@BlackGirlCurls]

It sound to me that you still have yet to nail down a really solid hair care routine that’s delivering consistently…and tell us if we’re wrong about this?

[@josephinearmstrong8775]

I hear you i just don tknow what to do next to my twa salt pepper i clip i don t use oil or butter. . i never see great video s on this. My hair is always dry i wash weekly, i clarify ever6 weeks not less because of dryness, and it just don t feel good. videos i see are alwaays on great hair like yours

[@BlackGirlCurls]

It sounds like you need some additional guidance. We offer guidance to naturals looking to learn to take care of their hair via our private course community, SeeSomeCurls. You can use the link above to subscribe if you like us to help you troubleshoot.

[@tamera605]

What about using grease after a twisting product? I use the smallest bit of blue magic after a styler like african pride curl cream for my twist outs. I find that they last longer and aren't as dried out. I retwist into huge chunky twists at night because I sleep crazy by day 3 I wash. I usually shampoo around 3 times, then condition. btw I live in the Caribbean. Its very hot and humid.

[@BlackGirlCurls]

You could do that if you like. However s a Caribbean resident your hair should never be dry. You live in a climate that is constantly adding moisture to your hair. However you are adding grease and the grease is creating a barrier on your hair that keeps that moisture out of your hair. Which is why you’re experiencing dry hair. If I lived in the Caribbean I’m choosing a whole other hair style.

[@tamera605]

@@BlackGirlCurls thanks for that. I tried wash and gos but they dont work for me. I hate having a wet head (no hooded dryer) and I haven't found a gel that gives hold without being gunky after a while. I tried the camille rose gel once and it was poofy from application...dried with 0 hold and 0 definition. I'm also really enjoying the video, thanks for sharing this.

[@BlackGirlCurls]

@@tamera605 You tried them…but you haven’t yet learned or been taught how to execute a wash&go. Hair styling requires skill and guidance. In addition to that Camille Rose in your climate isn’t the most ideal for executing a wash&go. We would like to invite you to sign up to our email list, we have a wash&go tutorial that you can check out included in our free Wash Your Damn Hair Challenge digital download. The link to subscribe can be found in the bio.

[@tamera605]

@@BlackGirlCurls ok I will check it out

[@keina2121]

@@tamera605 i live in New Orleans which is basically a swamp so it’s always humid here. As long as i shampoo, deep condition, my hair is hydrated. I don’t even really need a leave in because my hair is hydrated through my wash process. With both braid outs and wash and go’s i use a mousse first, then an actual gel (small amount, i don’t slather it in gel) jellies don’t work (Camille rose, uncle funky’s daughter) in humid climates. You need an actual gel. Because I’m a definition girl, i have to wash my hair more often to restyle with hold (4-5 days) but if i didn’t mind frizz i could definitely make it a week. The key is shampooing to make sure the hair is actually clean (no co wash) and conditioning to secure moisture/hydration. My mom never used grease in our hair so it’s something i never got into

[@lorrainemoolchan5570]

I'm old enough to remember when our mothers used to grease our scalps because it was thought that the scalp would get dry, We didn't use it for styling just to moisturize the scalp.

[@BlackGirlCurls]

Same!

[@hereforit2347]

Not ALL professional stylists are proponents of shampoos. Anthony Dickey or HairRules promotes the use of conditioning cleansers (co-washes) as a viable alternative. I’ve been primarily using conditioning cleansers to wash my scalp and hair since 2017 with no problem. This was my own idea and before I even knew who Anthony Dickey was. Co-washes really help keep my hair feeling moisturized and definitely get my scalp clean. I use shampoos every blue moon and always before a silk press. But do I think shampoos are necessary to keep my hair and scalp clean and healthy? Absolutely not.