No One In The World Writes Like The Cultural Tutor

[@DavidPerellChannel]

Something strange has happened. Writing has homogenized, and nonfiction books recycle the same washed-up formulas. The name of the game is short words and short sentences. Minimalism rules the day, and the Internet has fueled this simple style. So, why did writing get sterile? Well, that’s the focus of this interview with The Cultural Tutor. Turns out, as I learned, the world of writing has always oscillated between minimalism and maximalism. People assume that the writing of old was always complex and convoluted, but that’s not true. Sure, the King James Bible may have a few archaisms, but it’s pretty darn readable. The Age of Minimalism that we’re swimming in today is downstream of Hemingway and World War I. Hemingway was famous for using simple words and sentence structures. He aimed for clarity, and that aim shook the world. A review in The Atlantic from 1927 said: “A writer named Hemingway has arisen, who writes as if he had never read anybody’s writing, as if he had fashioned the art of writing himself.” Hemingway’s style was once radical. Now, it’s the water we swim in. To be clear: the benefits of minimalism are many. It’s clear and efficient. Like a mother cutting up a slab of meat for their toddler, writers work to make their ideas hyper-digestible. And don’t get me wrong. This isn’t a screed against minimalism, which can be a joy to read. When it’s done well, it’s easy to read and understand. This is why you’d be insane to write a business memo in the style of James Joyce or David Foster Wallace. The cultural blast radius of World War I also ushered in the Age of Minimalism - not just in writing but many aspects of culture. The world of architecture saw the rise of the Bauhaus movement which celebrated straight lines, flat roofs, and plain ornamentation-free facades; and the world of painting shifted violently from the soft vibrancy of Impressionism to the rigid edges of Piet Mondrian. And don’t forget about design. Your grandma’s walls were probably covered in wallpaper, but these days, it seems like every new-build has the same flat, white, and texture-free walls. Even the logos of fashion houses like Burberry and Saint Laurent have lost their ornamentation. The same thing has happened to doorbells, phone booths, street poles, and bookshelves. Something clearly happened. Not just in writing, but culture writ large. The spectrum between minimalism and maximalism infuses every aspect of culture - and we are squarely in The Age of Minimalism. Once you see it, you can’t unsee it. People don’t question the guardrails that homogenize modern writing either. Hundreds of millions of people use the Microsoft Word spellchecker every day and Grammarly directs people towards a unified style. Both software platforms ridicule the writing of Shakespeare, who’s arguably the most prominent writer in the history of English. My goal isn’t to hate on Word and Grammarly. But they do have a way of watering down your voice (and sometimes, that’s a good thing). Lest you dismiss me as a hypocritical luddite, know that I accepted a Grammarly suggestion to write this tweet and think the advice to write with shorter words and sentences is useful for casual writers. For writers, this means that an edge exists for people who can write in a maximalist style. With vibe, voice, flair, variance, and personality as if you’re dialing up the saturation on your writing. That’s what this episode is all about.

[@DigitalNovelist]

I put a chapter of my novel into ClaudeAI and asked for improvements. It stuffed my story full of inert imagery. As AI is injected into more tools like Word, we'll see increased flattening of prose in literature. The only way to prevent it is to dare to be imperfect. Take the time to write human and discover how you think. It's slow. But good thinking (and writing) is the result of deliberate action.

[@RanmaSyaoranSaotome]

I thought this would happen years ago when Grammarly became popular.

[@_surreal99]

I created a folder labeled 'purple prose' and deliberately wrote exactly that. So much advice aimed at upcoming writers tries to skip over the crawling and get them to fly. Verbosity has so much richness, and if you only know simplicity, you won't even realize that your lack of vibrancy in your writing is a result of being a glass that can't hold any water. So the cycle of tutorial hell perpetuates itself. I say do everything that these bogus tutors say you should avoid like "tell don't show", "avoid excessive tags in your dialogue", and so on. You _have_ to go through these things and *then* you'll find yourself on the other side. Crawl, walk, run, and then fly.

[@IIlllllIIIllllIIIlIllI]

The issue with this is that a lot of time people don't know what their flaws are. Instead of saying "you have to go through this", or "you shouldn't", I think critical thinking should be encouraged and let people decide on their own whether to take a piece of advice or not. But if you don't seek out advice and remain in your own bubble, you are likely to walk, or even run, but will probably do it in such a way that is undesirable for others. And art is not a thing to be making for yourself only

[@iiling7]

Yay, Sheehan is back! He is a breath of fresh air and I couldn't agree more with his thoughts and insights on this matter. Thank you, David, for having him.

[@DavidPerellChannel]

He’s one-of-a-kind

[@marcokilby7875]

This is the best talk I've seen on KZbin in years!! I clicked on it having never heard of your guest (as others seem to) expecting from the title a quirky writing style that I would wait to hear maybe one or two examples of before clicking off to watch something else. I stayed to listen to the whole thing because not one minute is wasted. Everything said is either informative, insightful, or both. Hats off not only to your guest but to yourself for truly listening and engaging while also asking questions relevant to what is being spoken of so that the passion (the etymology of which I learned of here) never withers. To chip in on a point you made, David, about what we focus on in the Yin and Yang and how that pertains to writing: Murakami is one of my favourite authors but he writes in the sort of prose I usually detest. Very minimalist and very drawn out. I usually like Joyce and Proust---experimental sentences and throwing every part of your knowledge, wisdom, and personal experience into your style. But there are moments in which Murakami will explode with maximalism and hit you with the most beautiful metaphor or simile you've ever read to describe something mundane, and it really hits you because the rest has been so simple. That example illuminated for me my own love of that author's prose. Thank you for sitting down to make this!

[@producedbypodcast]

With the settings, production quality, preparation, etc. it feels almost like a cinema experience. 🍿Love the podcast and the guest was awesome!

[@DavidPerellChannel]

Love to hear it

[@industrialize]

Loved the first episode so glad to see him back. This guy is an absolute genius.

[@DavidPerellChannel]

Well-read and well-spoken

[@katalyze101]

This podcast series is genuinely so good, the only thing I wish I saw more of is Fictional authors! ❤

[@DavidPerellChannel]

I agree, and it'll happen. The challenge is that non-fiction writers are easier to connect with because they're more likely to keep their emails public, and I'm much more socially connected in the non-fiction space. I'm working on it though!

[@DigitalNovelist]

Same! Would love to hear from other novelists

[@drts6955]

Yeah I'd love to see an interview with Stephen Daedalus !

[@kintrap5376]

@@drts6955lol beat me to it

[@Tolstoy111]

Fictional authors don't exist. (sorry I know you meant authors that write fiction but I couldn't resist)

[@_ALinthecity_]

When I was young I was told I was a talented writer- and ever since I’ve hated it. Recently I got a job that would require me to write articles and I was only partially excited because of the expectations that come with being a “Good” writer (writing the way we are taught to in school) and this just changed my entire perspective on writing. I came into this curious and ended it with a rediscovered love for writing! To say the least I will be making sure my voice is in my art and not put so much pressure on myself to make it sound “acceptable“ thank you !!!!

[@DavidPerellChannel]

*Personal Takeaway from This Episode* We're reading and writing more than ever, but not as intently as we used to. The sheer number of words people read has gone up. People spend hours per week on activities like reading emails and scrolling Twitter. But this isn't the kind of reading that leads to clarity of thought. It's surface-level. There's no rereading. The same thing has happened with writing. People spend more time typing than before, but that's not what makes you a better writer. If it were, then the knowledge workers who fire off 100,000 emails in a career would write as well as Hemingway. So, what's the move? Years ago, the author Venkatesh Rao published a post about how to become a better writer. Here's the TLDR: It's not the amount you spend writing that makes you a better writer; it's the amount of time you spend rewriting. The speed of life has gotten so fast. People don't have the attention spans to grapple with books or revise and revise a draft until it's perfect, but those are the activities that improve your thinking. My point isn't that everybody should read and write intensely. That's unrealistic. But there's a level of seriousness that the most committed writers alive today don't bring to their craft. To be clear, I'm guilty as charged. I write this from the thick of the fight, not as somebody who's overcome it. And my report from the trenches of information warfare is this: When it comes to the intellectual life, we're at war with our media environment.

[@maver1cs384]

One of the best PodCasts to date and resonates so well. It was one of the reasons I published my Book Hammerhead, A collection of short stories where the stories are written in their current form. Still, each story contains another story within the story so they become allegorical and perhaps even esoterical. However, it all depends on the reader's frame of mind. I strongly believe that we should bring the beauty of maximalist writing into the minimalistic, convenient, and sterile writing we see so often today where we have become texters. Now, with A.I., I fear even more monotonous writing emerging.

[@frank327]

Absolutely superb. Inspirational and a nuanced and considered antidote to the type of absolutist writing advice too often issued as "rules" (e.g. Orwell). A vivifying and intelligent thought-provocation!

[@sultanalshirah]

It is about time you host him. His great story, you were part of it as well.

[@DavidPerellChannel]

Have you seen our previous conversation? kzbin.info/www/bejne/Z6GlqZyhfbd2jqs

[@sultanalshirah]

@@DavidPerellChannel I didn't. I will next car commute

[@jsong8282]

The King James Bible is an interesting example. It uses short, Saxon words as opposed to longer Latin ones in most cases, but the height and majesty that it attains is unparalleled. See Isaiah 40:28-31 for example.

[@ItsApesWorld]

Does it mean King James version has more majesty even though it’s more simple?

[@jsong8282]

@@ItsApesWorld yes, and some of that is the beauty in simplicity, and the translators last step was reading it aloud, so it has a musicality that the other versions do not

[@dennismorris7573]

Excellent discussion.

[@ComposerJan-PeterdeJager]

Even bodies are shaped according to minimalist design... Building muscles with very clear and precise lines... Faces... The healthy (?) minimalist body...

[@rene.rodriguez]

Excellent video and I’m really excited to learn more about Sheehan and his work. But I see he posts only on Twitter, which has become a cesspool of hate. Ask him to post on Threads!

[@iLoveWriting365]

EPIC!!!!! Loved the first interview you did with The Cultural Tutor! Can't wait to watch this one now!

[@DavidPerellChannel]

Hope you dig it

[@stercorarius]

Really enjoyed this one as well as the previous one. Thanks you two!

[@DavidPerellChannel]

Thank you, thank you

[@soundplume]

These episodes are really terrific and well done. 👍🏻

[@DavidPerellChannel]

Thanks for tuning in

[@karentaylorsmells]

Incredible guest 🎉 David please can you share how you guys mic up because we can’t see any mics at all

[@zaccrowlands]

Fantastic discussion. Between this podcast and the one with Mark Forsyth I believe I’m about to get lost in the rabbit hole of vocabulary. I’ve become insatiably curious about what’s waiting for me underneath the surface.

[@DavidPerellChannel]

Hah! Dig it. You might enjoy this site: www.thedictionaryofobscuresorrows.com/concepts

[@rabailv]

Love this episode for I always wonder about how writing has changed and become more minimal. In one of the conversations spiritualness of writing was mentioned. I do believe that sometimes writing can be a spiritual download and when someone wants to turn that into a book, because of the word processor life we live it deconstructs and rearranges words. therefore, its nothing like the downlaod you had from your higher power. Any thoughts on that?

[@mynameisYEMAN]

Great conversation - Sheehan is a great pick to be a reoccurring guest on the show. His perspective is a breath of fresh air and I genuinely appreciate the conviction he has in his takes. More, please! PS. The bit about "passion" reminds me of JFM... is he the next guest? :P

[@DavidPerellChannel]

Who's JFM?

[@mynameisYEMAN]

@@DavidPerellChannel Joshua Fields Milburn of The Minimalists.

[@greigdouglas]

Cool conversation. I don’t think Hemingway was a minimalist, though. What he left unsaid in his prose is open to endless - maximalist - interpretation. The part of the iceberg under water is rather larger than the bit exposed :)

[@DavidPerellChannel]

You might like this comment from a reader on LinkedIn named Paul Kix: "I understand the point you're trying to make but I have to respectfully disagree with your guest, David. Fiction has flattened itself, yes, but nonfiction? What about allll the essays of David Foster Wallace? The books of George Packer? Patricia Lockwood's memoir? I can keep going. Jia Tolentino's stuff in The New Yorker. Pretty much any essay from Zadie Smith. Beyonce wrote a freaking song based on an essay from Chimamanda Adichie. The surreal and completely true war reportage of Michael Herr in Vietnam (Dispatches) became the existential despair of Chris Hedges in the early 21st Century (War is a Force That Gives us Meaning) and both books have inspired, if I may be so bold, the book I'm writing now on the Afghan war. And none of it minimalist. My criticism here-again, respectfully-is in the broad claims your guest is making around the idea of minimalism. There have always been writers of minimalist style and maximalist style. I like someone as lean as Hemingway or Carver as much as I like the more robust writers of the last 50 years: Joan Didion, Tom Wolfe (THERE'S a guy who was a maximalist), Richard Ben Cramer, Tom Junod.

[@greigdouglas]

@@DavidPerellChannel Great comment. Very interesting stuff. Thanks!

[@giuoco]

That’s still minimalist writing. Often the point of minimalist writing is to interpret in endless ways.. same with abstractions and simplified imagery for metaphors - like the serpent in the garden of Eden

[@giuoco]

@@DavidPerellChannelDavid Foster Wallace wrote maximalist FICTION too. I don’t think the point being made is that maximalism is completely gone, but that it’s not what characterised the present era, especially due to the way we disseminate popular media (Twitter, tik tok etc). Also those essays listed aren’t really maximalist, he’s conflating deep/broad/rich with maximalism

[@vinnieandlauraaugustine8403]

I mourn the loss of maximalism. You can’t have complicated thoughts if all you have is simple language.

[@lighto76]

Honestly, I was rewatching the last episode when I saw this.

[@DavidPerellChannel]

The Mark Forsyth one?

[@dreamslayer2424]

The title of this video is misleading. In actuality, there are many people in the world that write like him; however, you may not know who they are because they are not given the same amount of attention, or, like so many, are simply ignored. As David said in the beginning - he is a patron of the guest.

[@jsong8282]

I work in tech and all I see bullet points and sentence fragments. Most of our communication is in chat. I have to read my KJV and some other serious books to cleanse my mind

[@ruddro29]

ahhhh his hair....hooks me everytime

[@busedemirdelen1792]

I hate Hemingways writing with a passion. The whole time I was reading the old man and the sea, I was thinking "what's the point?" and that book -contrary to minimalists notion of efficiency- felt like a waste of time. Why should I read it if I don't have some meat in writing to chew on? Some ideas that are brought to life only by bringing different words together coherently and Hemingway was like "screw that, I'm just describing what's there".... but not quite. It's still filter and the filter felt like someone with a brain impairment is viewing the world. Not my thing, nope.

[@liltick102]

Tell him to check out Elie Faure since he enjoys Ruskin.

[@Zuddama]

I just want to remind myself that is not confirmed the theory that the language we speak shapes the way we think.

[@Freethinker-vj6dp]

Well, the language we speak doesn't shape the way we think, it exposes it.

[@Zuddama]

@@Freethinker-vj6dp I think that out there there are genius people that are not able to express what is running in their heads. But I'm not an expert and mine is just a feeling, a conjecture.

[@SamGarcia]

1:07:11 okay, but fishing is a passion and suffering, because it takes forever

[@Pumpkinshire]

Minimalism and maximumism are two themes

[@rron5641]

Aesthetics do not determine society. Aesthetics are the outcome of cultural movements. If you don’t like culture make something better stop complaining about “muh minimalism”. I like minimalism and dislike the grotesque overly ornate Victorian interiors. But that is simply a matter of taste nothing more nothing less. Stop over complicating simple things to appear smart. This podcast is for the aesthetically uneducated.

[@jondaly4501]

McDonald's now looks like Starbucks on the outside. Is this connected to minimalism? Also car paint jobs seem to come from a more limited palette. It's not just the auto bodies that are homogenized m

[@angrymurloc7626]

No :) the phenomenon you are describing is globohomo, or in an alternate framing hararian instrumentality (which you will have trouble googling for, but it's in the 21 lessons book) Of this, minimalism is an instrument, but not the driving force

[@jsong8282]

I’m sure there’s a distinction as the previous commenter said, but the concepts seem very connected. Architecture in general is so flat and brutalist now. Plenty of twitter accounts have documented this and remind us what a civilization that believes in God and beauty can create

[@nicolasfl1864]

Request Harari

[@mjolninja9358]

I thought that account was an ai bot

[@guharup]

is he trying to look like Derek Parfeit?

[@sameersohail1659]

Funny I get a Grammarly ad right after he talks about the limitations of Word and Grammarly

[@DavidPerellChannel]

On the episode itself?!? Hilarious