No one wants Vintage Magic anymore.

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Rudy's Magic Store
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[@KnightInBlackSatin]

That Alpha Braingeyser says Beta on the grading sticker!

[@PhoenixTide69]

Anybody else notice how vintage prices dropped substantially?

[@bradb7010]

@@PhoenixTide69 It's all about nostalgia vs. playability. Unless you're like 30, these unplayable cards are just history and some value that really appreciate from our childhoods. All the stuff now is for people who want to play magic now. Apples to oranges.

[@Stevestevestevestevestevesteve]

Can't wait till the reasonably priced enough to actually own them and play them again​@@bradb7010

[@daveweeks4748]

@@PhoenixTide69 Agreed, especially Revised/3rd Edition after the brief interest in the set a couple of years ago.

[@finmat95]

If it says Beta then it's Beta, got it?

[@hammerhyena4207]

I want Vintage Magic. Just not at those prices.

[@Orinn000]

Pretty much. You can't grow a format when you can't grow the player base. If cards keep getting more expensive, the number of people who can afford to play dwindles. But speculators are making their money, so it's worth killing the entire format.

[@tragicslip]

@@Orinn000 this argument would be more convincing if mtgo didn't exist.

[@moriyamakyon1067]

@@tragicslip which one of? i have sealed disk of mtgo from 2002, is it still alive?

[@Whodatk1d]

@@tragicslipmtgo sucks tho so who cares

[@tyguy592]

I mean, yeah, I want an OG charizard card just not at the prices they are at either

[@KazeOo]

You know, Rudy... I'm not going to tell you that these will increase in value, or even hold their current value. But the truth is, you bought them because you like them. They have value to you. That's what matters.

[@aka_rook]

"As long as I have these cards, I am never alone!"

[@KushDragon420]

"Do you really have to go?"

[@nautilusshell940]

Thats just something he says to make his viewers feel good

[@torchaf]

Good investment when I win and it was fun anyways when I dont! Spoken like a true gambling addict

[@aqnguyen08]

So basically Rudy is the equivalent of Jerry

[@mikeutube011]

We want vintage, we just can’t justify vintage prices for cardboard we can proxy

[@entertainmentinc9735]

It’s not just cardboard

[@werst9]

​@@entertainmentinc9735yeah, its also ink

[@Hapkins-le6xf]

​@entertainmentinc9735 yeah, it really is just cardboard if your interest is in playing the game.

[@entertainmentinc9735]

@@Hapkins-le6xf If it’s cardboard why does it cost so much money? Obviously because it’s more than just cardboard. I can make this same argument with anything in the world. Clothes is cotton, Silver is a mineral, art is just paint on a canvas.

[@Hapkins-le6xf]

@@entertainmentinc9735 did you miss the "if your interest is in regards to playing"? Seems you did. As for cost, it's essentially multi level marketing at this point. Investor bros selling to investor bros praying not to be the guy left holding the heavy bag at the end. Organic interest in these cards still exists but is rapidly drying up.

[@ustrucx]

Vintage is great, me, my friends and my printer have a blast every other weekend.

[@Possu81]

gl

[@benc1927]

How do you print them ?

[@cyanidecologne9018]

Aye good card stock and a decent printer = power cube for days

[@nathantargaryenlauw7216]

​@@benc1927with a printer device.

[@NicholasOsella]

That's actually brilliant

[@killbotgamma]

"No OnE WanTs ViNtAgE MaGiC anYmOrE." More like no one can afford to buy vintage magic anymore because it was all bought up by a few guys who priced it to the sky to improve their investments on paper.

[@tingaling77]

Get this guy an economics degree

[@asonofliberty3662]

Smartest econ major

[@ifbfmto9338]

Also, counterfeits will (and nearly are already) going to be virtually indistinguishable from real cards Which in my opinion, is a good thing 🤷🏼‍♂️

[@encampedsoldier]

OK, I've also been playing magic since Alpha. Vintage isnt moving because WHO can afford it? For cards most likely you cannot play with your friends, in your commander deck, or basically anywhere outside of cube and legacy? Why? Who plays those formats? Like one percent of the magic community? Most of the action in magic these days is commander, and people who are under 25 weren't even born when vintage dropped and have no attachment to the old cards like I do. They want cards they recognize from things THEY know, video games, tv, movies and such. These old pieces are great, i have most of them. But like most people, time moves on the waits for nobody. The things that brought us to magic are not the things kids of today identify with. They might discover an old card because its on EDHREC and it has synergy with something they are doing, but other than that, nobody wants to shell out big money for something they cant play, that's not in foil, and that doesn't fit in a commander deck strategy. Just what it is, time has moved on. If im investing in magic, im not buying old cards, im buying newer cards that have room to grow honestly.

[@TehKorwinMikke]

>WHO can afford it maybe a Doctor could haha

[@kyanite2193]

Alpha Beta artwork is amazing! My beta raging river still sends tingles down my spine when i look at it.

[@nickfifteen]

I miss the variety of artists they had in vintage Magic... the Phil & Kaja Foglios, the Ian Millers, the Richard Kane Fergusons. I'm not claiming that modern MTG artists aren't masters of their craft, it's just that MTG's scope is so narrow. At least the Pokémon TCG keeps their variety (standard generic, realistic style, clay models, whatever style Sumiyoshi Kizuki and Tomokazu Komiya use, etc) and that why they remain so exciting. I wish MTG would go back to that range and variety of artwork they once had.

[@HummusPizza]

find a girl who looks at you like rudy looks at roller lines

[@GuillaumeBerclaz]

ahhha

[@troyrussell177]

Good luck with that, we’re playing magic the gathering 😂 There is no better coochie repellent than magic the gathering, sad to say

[@drowningin]

I don’t understand why MTG got rid of the classic borders. They make cards look better. The new borders look hideous. The no borders look hideous. They know this too because they make the classic border a rare chase

[@PhoenixTide69]

@@drowningin classic absolutely better.

[@anthonyswift5357]

Agreed

[@bastokrepublic]

Also, Old border foils look soooo good it kills me looking at modern foils.

[@braindead8899]

Id want vintage magic if i could afford it, but i have to be satisfied with a 250$ collector booster every now and then when my wifes boyfriend lets me

[@DeathmetalPersian]

not surprised you are leashed when you spend the only money you have on scam lottery tickets that nobody actually wants.

[@angelucili5007]

That's really sweet of Tyrone

[@neilsimon544]

grow a pair friendo

[@toddpacker1015]

You're welcomed

[@poultrylord7300]

Could buy a dual for $250

[@AngmarCosplay]

We want vintage. We can’t afford vintage and I don’t want to resort to proxying. The reserve list is killing old formats, alienates the newer players, and serves 0 practical purpose. Your collection will retain value. Get rid of the damn reserve list and release vintage packs so we can experience it

[@megahog2000]

I collect ABU and care! I also have the complete Legends, Antiquities and Arabian Nights sets. Vintage MTG all day man.

[@Koreryn]

Why though lol. You play with other vintage players?

[@megahog2000]

@@Koreryn No, I guess its like Rudy, its nostalgia and just the thrill of collecting!

[@Koreryn]

@megahog2000 I get a thrill from opening packs. Singles? Not so much. Not about to open an alpha booster.

[@thekween9037]

​@megahog2000 that's perfectly reasonable in my opinion. My brother and I started playing when tarkir block was releasing so it has a special place for us, it's a set we both love to collect to this day. It's just nostalgia

[@megahog2000]

@@thekween9037 Amen! Its definitely all about the nostalgia.

[@avatarofcloud]

"No one wants Vintage Magic anymore" Translation: Me and other collectors have managed to corner the market out of existence, and the prices are so ludicrously high now that no one is willing to pay. There isn't a shortage of these cards, there's a group of people hoarding them literally like diamonds, artificially keeping the prices far higher than they should be.

[@FunktapusGaming4Lyf]

So.. there's a shortage then

[@ammamar4269]

Kind of. There is definitely hoarding, and this definitely Rudy trying to see if he can spike interest in Vintage. He has been doing this kind of manipulation for a while. But lets be fair - MTG probably has 5 - 10 million players...not everyone can have Power 9 or Vintage. I don't see how prices would be low at all...to be honest the pricing would probably be the same.

[@ToddGrindle]

It's called an artificial shortage... And generally it's frowned upon in respect to economic activity.

[@anthonyswift5357]

Exactly on point my man

[@lightworker2956]

​@@FunktapusGaming4Lyf Suppose you have a town with ten people and ten bikes. The ten bikes are owned by two guys, who refuse to sell those bikes at prices that the other eight people are willing to pay. And there's a reserve list that says that no more bikes can be created. Hence, eight guys are bikeless. Is there a shortage of bikes? Well, in one sense, yes. But if you gave the town three additional bikes, the hoarders would buy those too, and the other eight guys still wouldn't have a bike.

[@MiataMoney]

Maybe it's not that we don't want it, it's that we can't afford it

[@relicdad88]

This is the comment hes talking bout buying cases of this or that its all I can do 2 save up for a single box of cards nowadays lol bills never stop n life happens unfortunately. In 93 when this game came out all I cared bout was power rangers I didn't even kno what trading cards were until Pokemon so like 98 99 round there ish. Always been poor dnt see dat changing anytime soon lol but got few cool cards from back in the days different card games.

[@tartuffethespry]

I love how Rudy uses "Rudy" as an adjective

[@D0wnshift]

Incorrect, people want vintage. I for one bought a full playset of Beta proxies (proxies, not counterfeit) for fraction of a penny on the dollar. My friends, and our kids can all play what ever we want on a hobos salary. Magic 30 taught us these type of cards are acceptable.

[@mattmorningstar7318]

Magic 30 is a joke, proxies sucks

[@npmeilleur]

What the heck is the difference lol

[@Gengar558]

proxies are counterfeit. Counterfeits made by magic themselves

[@lordofpigz]

What else can we do tho vintage cards are so expensive, my playgroup will happily proxy cards within reason (we write on basic land with Sharpie)​@@mattmorningstar7318

[@DeathmetalPersian]

@@mattmorningstar7318 when you aren't autistic you realize nobody cares if your piece of paper is real when you are playing on someones kitchen table surrounded by friends.

[@mtgtv1384]

The vintage market is on sale. It’s an accumulation phase.

[@aericconline3684]

You are the only MTG content I watch anymore. Everything is about the new flavor of the month and there is so much being churned out it doesn't even remotely resemble the game I fell in love with. Thanks for preserving the history of Magic. I hope that you see one hell of a return on investment in years to come.

[@DeadMasterMusic]

I want vintage. I just cant afford it lmao

[@rudytorres7348]

I think the problem is the fact that they banned the power 9 in commander. Obviously if they were made legal 99 percent of the power 9 would be proxies but incentive would be present for those can buy them would be more likely to buy them

[@lightworker2956]

Making the power 9 legal would be great for the very, very, very few guys who owned power nine. And it would imo be bad for everyone else. Commander is supposed to be a casual format.

[@youcanthandlethetruth6976]

Vintage magic is awesome. Everyone wants it, but who wants to pay thousands of dollars on cardboard.

[@midorimage]

One of the problems are the decks are becoming way too expensive. I sold most of my P9, Workshops and Bazaar playsets.. two years ago and don't miss them. Finding a secure place to play was getting harder and harder. Once you are at the tournament site, you have to watch your deck like a hawk to make sure it doesn't get stolen and worry about getting mugged once you leave. Not what I want to do when I relax on the weekend... For the money I could buy an RV..

[@midorimage]

@@lapsehc Google... William Joseph Cormier I have known people to get their Powered deck stolen at GenCon too.

[@Aventurier24]

I sold all my vintage magic to buy Metazoo... Look how that turned out. YOU OWE ME RUDY!

[@drokhalis3338]

Best he’s gonna be able to give you is an angry, no eye contact, handy J.

[@SilaYoga]

“Asset classes are very cyclical” metazoo will make a triumphant return

[@fernandoherrera7584]

Wrekt

[@Augrills]

I’ve never even heard of metazoo lol

[@Yostuba]

I would fucking die of laughter, if someone made a massive post/video of selling all their vintage magic(not even at the peak it will ever be). Showing all the proof how the sold everything for metapoo and how screwed they are with thousands of boxes not cases mind you of complete garbage. The worst part is you know there is at least a dozen mentally ill people who did something so moronic. They bought metapoo and did not sell it at its peak, they thought it would not become worthless within months. Because they are greedy and beyond stupid. Just the thought of selling vintage cards for metapoo man so god damn funny.

[@ZeroIsEven]

I’ve turned my collection into a double sleeved Vintage Cube - it’s is the best way to collect and play these, and I only need one of each card. I get to share the art and history with friends and get to enjoy the new sets as a way to scout potential cube cards. Really enjoyed assembling it and hunting for missing cards, going to enjoy maintaining it. Highly recommended as a hobby.

[@thedoctorbob7]

Vintage cube is the best way to play magic full stop

[@ZeroIsEven]

@@thedoctorbob7 Most people know that … but I am finding that it is also the best way to collect!

[@Barrager69]

Proxies vintage cube, same fun experience, 2-5% of the cost, no heart attack level stress about any damage happening to thousand+ dollar cards.

[@martincollins7847]

This is how I play now. Double sleeved Vintage full powered cube.

[@martincollins7847]

@@Barrager69 I think there are many folks out there that think this way. Look at my authentic Cube and just think I am insane.

[@yama_yama_yama]

These are my favorite videos, please don't stop posting videos like these!

[@aka_rook]

When I sell a car, I always make sure to hype up the rusting arches and faded paint as 'authentic' and 'a piece of history' 👍

[@callofdestiny5671]

piece of automotive history right here

[@DualBrainMTG]

Rudy I believe. And I buy what I can. It’s not like what you can… But we all do our part

[@gegachxiswulisso9758]

Interest is still out there. I don't have a lot of disposable income, but even I enjoy collecting RL cards. I have my favorites and my speculations that I add to my collection monthly. Like you, flipping through my binder of amazing artwork and memories makes young Gegachxis happy.

[@Niki99fun]

Vintage (the format) is awesome! but so expensive...

[@daftwulli6145]

Just play it online

[@Gamebuster]

remove the reserved list

[@shannongerbes]

​@@Gamebusterit's called the reserved list for a reason and it was done so in the 90s when words and actions ment something

[@Gamebuster]

@@shannongerbes Don't care

[@tombullard6167]

​@@Gamebusterobviously no strong male role model in life

[@Adamchevy]

I love these videos! I am currently acquiring Vintage magic as well. It's always smart to buy the collectibles that most people aren't focusing on. Great Video Rudy!

[@Brandon-pi4hg]

Rudy ive been watching you since 2017ish when I was graduating highschool. Man ive learned a lot, I could spill my story here but ill save it. Thanks for making these videos, you're a big part of the reason I am where I am in lofe right now.

[@Jchmcom]

"No one wants Vintage Magic anymore." Community correction " Dan Boch and Rudy keep buying all the power 9 and taking them out of circulation permanently so there's no more ability to play Vintage Magic anymore."

[@DevStarkiller]

I feel like (could be wrong) there is a ceiling on A/B/U, especially power 9, that as it is reached, the pool of people willing to buy and sell just disappears. That said, I love old Magic and I love buying tier 2 & 3 reserved list cards.

[@heresyhobbyist]

I absolutely love vintage magic. I love old borders, the old artwork, the jank of the game and everything. But as a uni student, I could not possibly justify spending tens of thousands for cardboard? I have some old cards that are cool to me but aren’t expensive. My favourite card ever is timewalk, but there is no universe where I afford one lol.😢 maybe some day….

[@thomashitz3040]

Please go on with such videos. The vintage community loves them and there are more people out there than you may think!

[@Dr3dlock11]

Wow Rudy not mentioning Mr P. or Metazoo for almost 18 minutes is a new record! Congrats again. Love the content, keep up the great work 😂

[@TheSushiandme]

Better to buy Stonks.

[@Reformed322]

correct? even rudy says that in almost every video.

[@Psychonaut165]

Stonks go up. 📈

[@user-pc5ww8fh6d]

I played Magic during the 94-97 time slot. I had 4 of each dual land card. It allowed me to play idiotic impossible deck combinations. But the gang stopped playing in 97-98 and that was that. I eventually sold my dual land collection for a crazy sum. I quit mainly because the trend to constantly boot out cards was clearly a cash cow move. I'm surprised the game is still alive.

[@PM-xc8oo]

So I've been playing Magic since 1994 and I really do love a lot of these old out of print, highly collectible cards such as the power 9. But at the same time as far as actually playing the game goes, they are essentially meaningless. The most expensive of the cards are totally unplayable from a legality standpoint in any real format (the sole exception being Time Twister in commander) and even if you could, would you? The last time I played in a CEDH event I decided it was my last. The deck I was playing had to be worth as much as a good used car and as I thought about it during and after the event, I decided it was just nuts carrying something worth that much around with me in a backpack (plus a couple of other decks that weren't cheap either). So outside of putting these things in a frame or in a vault, I just don't see the appeal of any of it. They are now at a point where it is just ridiculous to even think about bringing these to any sort of event/tournament/whatever so that has to affect the demand.

[@dustintrips3168]

It's ridiculous to have them period. The younger generations care zero about vintage or mtg for that matter. Prices will crash hard in the years to come.

[@thewizardmf175]

I'm a younger guy super into vintage hey man you ever wanna let those cards go lemme know 😅

[@dustintrips3168]

@@thewizardmf175 Of course there's people that are young that's into it. But not enough to keep the prices up, and most young people don't have the expendable income to Play vintage anyways.

[@Blacksunstoneful]

@@dustintrips3168 Because vintage doesn't get you RCQ invites or Pro-tour sponsorship, you'll never get in the hall of fame slamming moxen over Griefs and Nadus That's facts.

[@jiricihak4639]

@@dustintrips3168good I will start buying

[@wdeborde]

I started with Revised and there are so many cards that are worth pennies that just give me a certain feeling. So few new cards do that.

[@harold4thofhisname.499]

i love when rudy gets all enthusiastic about the pieces of history 🥰

[@playset-seho]

rudy: "young rudy is happy"

[@Koreryn]

People are too poor to pay that much for a piece of cardboard

[@lightworker2956]

Or too smart. I have enough money to buy a Black Lotus. But there's no way on Earth that I'm spending that much money on one piece of cardboard.

[@Koreryn]

@lightworker2956 It all depends on how much money you have. If I was rich I'd buy black lotus

[@CardboardTutor]

Still buying Unlimited, Four Horsemen and P3K cards for my set cubes on my channel! Beautiful pieces you got there! 🤩❤

[@ConcreteBombDeep]

My aunt has the complete collection of all Beta cards in a binder including Black Lotus. I played Magic in elementary and middle school in the early 2000's. She told me "when I die you can have my Magic collection". I knew the value of that collection and all throughout my life I told my friends/peers/coworkers about my Aunts collection. Literally told people about her collection whenever Magic would get brought up from elementary school, middle school, highschool, to even the places I worked as an adult. Now in the my 30's my half sister had kids that are now in elementary school and play Pokémon. They went to visit her a year ago and my aunt had promised my nephew that plays Pokemon her collection of magic cards even though she promised me them some 20-25 years prior when I was my nephews age. It's a weird and frustrating thing. Me being a nice introverted kid I had never brought up the cards to my aunt after she promised me them because it would seem rude. My nephew doesn't even know what Magic cards are and I can't be mad at him. A lifetime of bragging about a collection that was promised to me just to have her forget and promise them to someone else that doesn't even know their value or what a Black Lotus is.

[@hittingthewall]

RUDY! Pls never stop making vids about vintage Magic! We believe! We believe!

[@Otto-t2r]

Rudy, I wanted to say thank you for such an excellent video! I am new to your channel, and this was my introductory video. There were so many points of your conversation that spoke to me, but especially about buying a house and paying it off in order to move into investing in things that truly make you happy. my family and I have been working really hard to pay off our consumer debt by the middle of next year, which will allow us to chunk large portions of capital to our mortgage. I have often spent a lot of time, wondering what I would do if I had an extra couple brand laying around and everything in this video is exactly where my thoughts have been going to, specifically as it related to magic the gathering, thank you for sharing some things that have touched at least one person. I have subscribed to the channel and look forward to more Alpha investment material!

[@Chris-qj8ms]

It’s just like the classic car market. Everyone loves classic cars and would love to own one! But no one is paying some boomer 100k for a car they pid $2,500 for just cause they kept it clean.

[@toviszejo381]

Any chance you will make these as a podcast? Meaning sound only? On spotify or somewhere...

[@Jeremy1998999]

My fear is the fakes…Im in the market for basically any vintage power, but the very last vintage card I bought had a recolored back edge.

[@thedoctorbob7]

Its not that people dont want them. Its that theyre too expensive for the common man.

[@jStorm75307]

Well it's coming to the time where the RL is actually hurting value, since alot of new players wants to play with the vintage cards because of the price point. I am torn on wanting/not wanting to have the RL list removed, but I think it's time for it to die, but controlled. (Which lets face it Wotc can't do that) but if they did a nice well crafted set with throwing in just like "inventions" style power 9, RL cards.. just sprinkle them in to sets.. keep it very limited, but would spike the prices of older cards as there would be hype again... I mean the high prices magic card isn't on the RL list... :)

[@Orinn000]

I hate the RL, but I'd recommend adding "original artwork" to the list if they want to keep it. Let them print Black Lotus again, but never with the original Christopher Rush artwork. Make sure the originals with their iconic artwork maintain collectability, but increase the supply of non-collectable but playable variants. I'm sure that they could print a white-border, artless (white art box) version of the P9, and they would sell like crazy as long as they were actually legit, legal Magic cards.

[@jStorm75307]

@@Orinn000 Agreed, no original art ones.

[@nej2147]

@@Orinn000 Agree 100%, but personally I just want the OG duals at a reasonable price again, if it is with new or old art makes no real diff to me... edit: but NO white/gold/silver border or alternate back art.

[@Orinn000]

@@nej2147 Has to be legal cards, ones you could play in a tournament at your LGS, so no changing the back art. The point about white border is that there's a huge demand for these cards to play with, and if WotC was willing to meet the demand, they could sell us plain cardboard with the Magic back and typeset "Volcanic Island" or whatever, and if it was a legal card, we'd buy it. Even over counterfeits, if the price came down enough.

[@Badassest]

I'm tempted to just take screenshots of Rudy, print them out sleeve them up and collect binders full of them. If I sent one in to be graded it better come back as a 11

[@mikephatz]

Rudy I haven’t really been involved in magic or watching your videos in awhile but just listening to this I just want to tell you that your are 100% right please keep on making videos.

[@levigoldson]

The price wouldn't be so high if nobody wanted it. Literally people buy it and drive the price up. If people had more money, the price would be higher

[@hainesforohio7028]

When the older players like myself leave the game, the nostalgia for these cards leaves the game. I personally find these cards exciting as they were a part of my childhood. If new Commander players don't have that same nostalgia, that has to lower the value because it lowers the demand.

[@nickferry8909]

I agree that no one really wants vintage anymore. The main problem is and always has been liquidity. We need a better system to buy and sell these cards. Even if it's just digitally transferring ownership (I know some of the grading companies do this with Ebay). But I totally agree with you Rudy. I think the older sets (especially Unlimited) are pretty undervalued. I've been buying up Unlimited basic lands for $2-4 a pop. If NM Alphas are going for $100, then these cards should in theory be worth around $12-$15 in NM condition (there's about 7-9 basic Unlimited lands for every Alpha, depending which one you're looking at). The math is off, and I love the white bordered beauties. Keep preaching, bull markets happen fast in collectables.

[@TK_GX]

I'm new to actually playing this year, mainly EDH Commander at locals. I asked a private australia facebook mtg trading and sell group im in (like 50k members in australia, very active) that I was interested in buying White border lands from Chronicles or 4th and 5th edition and i wanted to pay cash / make a deal. An older gentleman messaged me literally 10 minutes later upset and said "i thought no one would ever want them, I threw like 2000+ of them away 3 days ago." Just very sad stuff. In australia, its harder to find vintage / old stuff pre 2000 in general.

[@leethax100]

Markets calcify, bears shit in the woods, and sometimes fish fly

[@laurens4102]

I love how Rudy has hundreds of expensive cards but still finds the new additions to his collection beautiful. Even if they are damaged. We need that kind of love.

[@Juzamdan55]

Why did they grade the Braingyser Beta when it’s Alpha

[@iceghost27]

I'm still picking up vintage in 2024 and love it! I'm very diversified with plenty of sealed product, assets from different collectibles, and traditional investments of course... but something about my vintage cards makes me happy when I look at them. It's special if it's your thing.

[@parkourguyyy]

I feel like it will continue to stagnate or even drop with the economy slowing down and unemployment looming

[@Peeweez0]

Did the economy really ever improve though? It just feels like things get more and more expensive and many people complaining about how impossible it is to get jobs

[@parkourguyyy]

@Peeweez0 nah, if you haven't noticed, prices for cards have been steadily declining for like 2 years now. Economy was doing okay with stimmy money despite the high inflation, but the economy has just started really being squeezed by high interest rates in recent months. People also started going back to normal life after all restrictions were lifted, which was also good for the economy, but now that "normal" is back to being normal, people are more conservative with funds

[@DocBB]

There's 3 people that use/have vintage cards: 1. Rich mtg players/collectors 2. Sponsored players who get the cards provided to them for use in vintage tournaments 3. People who grew up buying and opening packs in the 90s and happen to have a lot of pricey stuff Most of the rest of the mtg player base would love to play vintage, especially modern and legacy players, but even before this economic slump the only viable means of playing was with proxies or spending a paycheck on MTGO.

[@DotHacker99]

Those or the 4th category is inheriting from ones uncle or parents who use to collect 30 years ago. That kinda goes under the 3rd tho. Id love to play Vintage or even Legacy but I can only play if I proxy stuff.

[@kyleappleton9004]

the 5th category is irresponsible people who buy them even though they can't technically afford them and end up charging the card lmao. Because.... Addicted.

[@mishrazz]

6th category here. Buying loads of old cards between 2005 - 2010 when nobody wanted them and it was dirt cheap. Bought Tabernacle in 2007 for 100$

[@Just_Pele]

True. I admit that I'm hate-buying old Magic. I don't want it, but I keep buying it anyway for the lols. Someone please help me.

[@GuillaumeBerclaz]

Hi Rudy, just saying, me and some friends are still purchasing vintage stuff, it still gives us chills to get another dual in our collection !!!

[@Omnicloud7strife]

I have wanted to own a Black Lotus for over 20 years. The cost of the card went up too much over time for me to buy one. It makes me sad.

[@mishrazz]

I didn't buy one at 300$ ..then I didn't buy at 600$ ...when I didn't buy at 3000$.. the ship sailed and now it's out of reach

[@Stevestevestevestevestevesteve]

People would still want them if the prices were still $700 for a black lotus

[@Lomak76]

90s prices

[@dennisvogel5982]

i for the longest time as a player saw vintage as the pinnacle format. In the times where magic was often seen as a very competitive game i turned from standard to legacy just because i liked the higher power of the format and the comparativly low cost. Of course stuff like unlimited dual lands where not cheap but these where one time investment. I paid 50 dollar a piece for 4 jace tms in standard - then they got banned so i invested another like 200for a playset of tundras to have them playable again in legacy . then bought some FoW for around 100 and i got a more or less competitive legacy deck. Once you had the pieces for legacy the next step would have been upgrading to vintage where there is even less rotation and invests stay worthwhile a lot longer. That said, for me a card has no collectors value. the pricepoint is playability and demand. The uprising of commander and the more or less end of magic being a competitive game have stopped my desire to build legacy or vintage decks, because there is no one to play against. Also the prices are just insane. I get that the rarity makes it desireable as a collectors item, but for us players something like a black lotus has almost completly lost its value. There are no vintage tournaments. And even if there where, i would argue that using proxies is fine since money should never be a big factor in a competitive game. Magic is not about building the best decks anymore, that demand the usage of specific cards and therefore generating demand and value for these cards. Most of magic is a bunch of people building 50 commander decks with max power level of 7/10 so it stays "fun" and homeruling ban every card thats 5 dollar or more since that would make it too expensive. If the only reason you build decks is fun and you can more or less change the ruleset to only include specific card types, why would somebody jump through hoops buying something expensive? Collectors often forget that the easiest customer for cards are players. Because they often bought these cards since they have no other choice if they want to be competitive. Selling to other collectors is a whole different ballpark where everbody tries to get good deals, while a pro player at a vintage tournament HAS to have power 9 no matter the price. So with the competitive scene gone the only "investors" outside of collectors are people paying for that cool new artwork card with their favorite marvel superhero or stuff like that. Why would they bother paying for a card they cannot even play, and have no emotional connection to. So long term the refusal to reprint these cards will fade out the relevant formats that played them and in term will turn them from playing pieces to pure collectors items - so the only transactions that will take place is from collector to collector and there is a lot less demand. If there would be reprints and these formats would be saved, then classic versions of these cards would be more intereseting again for a broader audience.

[@michaelc6817]

RUDY!!!! Old School Magic is the best!! New Magic bites you know who CEO.

[@Blacksunstoneful]

The truth is no one wants to pay $80,000 for a deck to play once a year at Eternal Weekend just to go 1-3 and drop because you have no real reps with the deck, because there is no one to play with

[@PeterClausman]

Old school is a thing. With a vibrant community…

[@Blacksunstoneful]

@@PeterClausman no it's not lol I could drive throughout the entire Midwest and not find a single store hosting a old school event but I can find thousands of them hosting a modern event

[@Conflict_Boardgaming]

Card board burns very well in nuclear fire. But I don't play the magic card games, so... I just like listening to Rudy.

[@shadowrundas]

so neat to see how prominent roller lines are even on heavily played cards! feels kind of industrial being able to able to see artifacts of the the manufacturing process over the years

[@WeekdayWeekend]

Unfortunately, MTG has now become the equivalent of Funko Pops; they're wrapped up in so many brands and none of it is good. I got into MTG right after high school, and I play mostly kitchen table and Modern, and most of my Modern cards are circa 2015.

[@kurtbertling2511]

Love vintage. Reminds me of playing in High School. So much fun to rip packs back in the day also... starter decks for $6!!! I miss those days

[@MTGWithMike]

I think just about all newer players would enjoy vintage cards. Finding them takes time if you want un open packs and the price is a tad high. I've been enjoying Collecting cards online as it cost nothing just about.

[@MTGWithMike]

I just purchased two unopened packs of Fallen Empire. Stoked to start collecting cards I grew up collecting but no longer have.

[@jdelaney427]

Lots of us want a Timetwister for our Commander decks! No one wants to pay the price... so we move forward playing our favorite game twisterless. lol

[@jdelaney427]

@@lapsehc i want them all in my Xyris, Nekusar etc lol

[@MrTimmyGT]

I'm with you Rudy, they are beautiful and they make me happy and I would buy all of the ones I could afford to buy.

[@stevenkwarciany7776]

You love them…us older crowd loves them too…it’s why my Urza’s block items will never leave my control. I never knew what I was buying back in 1998 but I’m glad I did.

[@aaronloveday7610]

Maybe it's the end of magic. Hasbro only sees $$$

[@odonthc385]

Its funny you talk about the shift in the market. You saw a large increase in small caps after that CPI print. Now there talking 2 rate cuts this year. Everybody betting on cheaper debt coming soon. I think the stock market hitting ATH ever few days is forward thinking. When interest rates due come down, more money will flow into collectibles.

[@Capt_McNugget]

So people would rather drop 500 on a collector box that will drop in the first week than pick up a used RL staple?

[@niallbellabarba5533]

Hey Rudy, I liked this video and kind of agree with your "binary forecast" --> In the next video on this topic can you explain why this is not making some of the power9 prices go down? Because if no one is buying... well the prices should start to slip in time right?

[@sammyhaghour976]

Im 44, still love vintage MTG and still trying to collect and finish all my graded sets. I save up and buy 1 every few months. Also got a small group of cards headed to BGS soon. I sold my collection in 1996. I wont do that again. Ill go down with the ship if I have to and leave them to my son and daughter.

[@obiwan-hf1vp]

With the price of everything going through the roof, who has the money to spend on collectibles anymore.

[@Swellington_]

those roller lines on the Mox Sapphire gave Rudy a stiffy 😂 😂

[@butteryfriedwizard2219]

I preferred playing magic. You know, without having to put a mortgage on my house.

[@EdwintheMagicEngineer]

I am still buying, I have sold nothing (other then basically to trade that value into different old cards).

[@GotoTechReviewsChannel]

I've been trading in a lot of my spikey modern cards for vintage RL.

[@PaulGaither]

It is not the desire, it is the price. I would collect a play set or more of all that stuff if it were affordable. Since it isn't, I just buy the high quality proxies and play with that instead. Fake Mox Jet still taps for black at the kitchen table.

[@danielg5247]

When crypto goes up threw this new cycle, people will have a windfall of money ready to spend on vintage magic

[@gte539z]

You said it - interest is cyclical. It will take an exploitable mechanic or everyone making money and needing a flex.

[@bhoyt4530]

Actually Rudy the cycle is moving into small caps currently due to cooling inflation news and investors are anticipating loosening of interest rates soon.

[@tlwaterfield]

It’ll take off again. All the “who can afford it?” Comments don’t really address how the prices got to where they are now

[@packymancard]

The comments in here make this video way better. I see vintage as like a fine wine, scotch, or cigar in the future. Ripping a vintage pack is an experience. Everything digital in the future will make people crave physical items in my opinion.

[@mishrazz]

True

[@87plank]

Who watches the Timmy Talks channel ?? Old school magic for days.

[@GamingOC]

Yes you are the only one left :) Biggest company here in italy doesn't buy anything power nine or reserved list related cards like library ecc cause "they have no market e i can't even sell the ones that we have". For the vintage cube you just proxi them and gg :)

[@darrenengland6269]

Wow, some really nice cards there Rudy. I think when the current new influx of players mature, and once markets shift, the value on these older cards will increase again.

[@DanMProductionsBois]

I love the vintage stuff.

[@deevitalogy9350]

I'm getting old. I miss this cold and faded anchor. I'm a bit disgusted at the world and the direction we have led it in. Thanks for keeping this idea alive, dude. Please keep making cool vintage magic videos. Let us not forget momentary where it is we came from.