"No Sag Gate" FAIL - Pro Fence Builder Reacts

Today we're taking a look at a "no sag" fence gate. But is this gate really a "no sag" gate? Let's dig into it!
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[@vvhitevvabbit6479]

Last year I got to witness a very entertaining job being done for my neighbor. She hired 2 guys to build her a new fence gate. These guys put a a 4x4 in the ground about 2 ft, screwed some regular interior door hinges to it and mounted a prebuilt wooden fence panel to it. Done. If you know anything about gates, you know they have to be cross braced and the post needs to be properly fortified to support the weight. This thing sagged and scraped the ground like you wouldn't believe and it fell completely over 3 times. Each time if fell, these guys were called back to fix their work. In the end, they ended up strapping the post to the house with metal strapping, and they put a large caster wheel on the sagging end of the fence, so that it can roll along the ground instead of scraping. It's the saddest job I've ever seen and I can see it every time I look out my bedroom window.

[@C8mon]

I’m surprised they came back to fix it usually guys like that do the disappearing act so give them credit for that at least 😂. I feel bad for your neighbour.

[@keithcrowe1787]

I have 2 redwood 6' gates (12 ft') that are mounted to redwood posts that are 30" deep and 8" x 8". I like to build the frame with a simple diagonal cross brace (Post low side to latch high side). One trick I learned is before adding all the pickets (after mounting the frame to the post) is to have the frame start off with a slightly (up) bubble. Latch side higher than level by a half bubble. This way when you add all the weight of the wet redwood pickets the gate "levels" out when you are finished. I also build the fence as a board-on-board privacy fence so there is added weight to consider. If you start out with the frames mounted level THEN add all the extra weight it will sag big time. 3 years later I can easily open and close these gates with a simple effort and they have maintained a spot on level.

[@toddswenson]

If you're still answering questions about this post, If the unsupported post is his only choice in this setup what size should the post be and how should it be set so it doesn't bend, lean over time? Thanks

[@carlosm.8980]

I enjoyed your expert advice. Thank you.

[@JoeEverest]

Very welcome, always happy to help! Appreciate you watching!

[@maxslomoff]

You mention building the frame on its face might be better - What are the considerations for orienting the brace and frame on ends vs on face?

[@jasonscotthensley]

Great video as usual! Keep up the great content!!

[@JoeEverest]

You’ve got it! Thanks for watching!

[@kylephillips9073]

That's a good video. I might add a tight stringline from point A to point B is invaluable.

[@MontyBird45]

Well done, as usual. I agree with everything you said.

[@JoeEverest]

Thanks for the support!

[@rogerszmodis]

I built a really half assed gate for my back yard a few years ago but it’s still working fine. I made a 6 point brace for keeping it squared though so that’s probably helping. I didn’t bother making the top even. too much work for something I only need to keep my dog in the yard,

[@333cparker]

His fence was not bad - but as you said there are better ways. Love your Videos. As for me I am an avid DIY'er and yep I have made my share of mistakes and have learned from them. My first thoughts these days are find someone that knows and learn from them. I Live on a culdesac corner house and have 300 Feet of retaining wall with a 4 foot custom made picket fence. I cut each picket by hand with a band saw 300 liner feet worth with 4" wide pickets with 3/4 spacing between each. All cedar except one panel where I had to use pressure treated wood as I think I bought every 1 X 4 cedar plan in the region and I could not find anymore. Fast forward 20 years later and guess which section I have to replace this summer? To be honest laster longer than I thought but it was painted every 5 years or so an off white cream color. Since the fence is behind a retaining wall I made oversized forms for each post as safety was a concern with a 5-6 Ft drop off on the other side. NOW though it is time to put in a quality gate as the gate that is on the 4th side not facing the street was until now a wrought iron one that has finally rusted itself to the grave and pre-dated me at the house.

[@ticohilliard961]

Would there be an issue with cedar rails and treated pine pickets

[@brianbanks3044]

i wonder if a diagonal tensioner adjustable wire with turnbuckle would have helped with future sagging...besides the steel posts

[@JoeEverest]

Possibly!

[@GetRealBaby]

I'm about to build a welded wire fence with 8' treated posts and a 6' X 5' gate. The gate will only have 6' X 5' welded wire as an external "covering" across the gate from side to side. Because this will make the gate lighter, and because I'll use a cross brace from hinge Bottom to outside Top as you suggested, will I need more than 2' of the gate posts in concrete? Or should I brace one or both of the posts, each in 2' of concrete? Also, how far from post to post should I place my fence posts while using T-posts between them? This fence is meant to keep coyotes and other varmints out of my backyard. One more question: I have red brick veneer...is it still advisable NOT to attach a 6' 2X4 post to the brick as starting and ending points for this fence? Thanks in advance for any help! Great video!

[@sorellla]

silly question: if I use a bunch of undersized hinges instead of just two big ones, is it just as good or do you run into some other problems/risks?

[@davekushman2363]

We offer a lifetime workmanship warranty as well, we don’t advertise for fence building, we mainly are hardscape and deck focused but for clients who are already spending a large chunk of change with us we will do their fencing for them. The reason we don’t advertise or take solely fencing jobs is just too many headaches between neighbours with property line disputes even though we build off of the property survey measurements and only allow for tolerance onto our clients side so if we’re an inch off the property line it will be our client losing the inch but generally are spot on with the survey. We do everything with pride in our work, we’re a small company so we can assure everyone’s quality standards are as high as possible simply because once we wrap a job we don’t want to have to come back and fix things if it can be avoided. That being said we always make sure we overbuild our gates, knowing that they are the most common point of failure, I would rather spend a few more dollars up front during the build process to do it right than spend that money coming back to fix it and worrying I look bad to the client because of it.

[@juliemensching2365]

Hi Joe, I really love your videos. We are working on our fence, not perfect, but have learned a lot since watching your videos. You keep mentioning building the gate onsite since the post is already set. I can't seem to find a video with someone building a gate onsite of yours. We are going to use steel frame, do you have one? I hope you see this, and it doesn't go out into the abyss!

[@JoeEverest]

There are a couple, if you search the channel for ‘steel gate’ you should find them. Thanks for watching!

[@DigitaLinfamy]

Great vid. Question : what do you mean at 13:36 that the hinge post is unsupported. what would make it supported? Thank you.

[@JoeEverest]

The hinge post has no support to keep the top of the post from pulling over, since it’s on a corner.

[@DigitaLinfamy]

Thanks for response. So the concrete and 2ft depth of the hinge post is not enough? Can you elaborate what would need to be added to make it supported?

[@TheCelticHitman]

What would the recommendation be to support the corner post in this scenario? Metal post? Is there an alternative to that?

[@snorman1911]

@@DigitaLinfamy Just my $0.02 as am amateur. I just installed a gate for a fence around my chicken coop. I used 8' 4x4 posts set in concrete. Each post has metal wire fencing attached that runs to T posts around the perimeter, with a wooden gate in between. The tension of the fencing started pulling the 4x4 post on the latch side away from the gate. Every day I went out the gap was about 1/4" wider, until it started binding up and wouldn't latch. Luckily on that side was able to add a beam from the coop itself to the top of the 4x4 post to brace it in place. I think the other post is probably in equilibrium between the fence pulling on it and the gate pulling on the other side. But yeah, the amount of flex in the post really surprised me. With a little constant tension they will slowly bend in that direction with no other bracing.

[@sorellla]

How would you support the other post in this case?

[@berryginger1065]

I have pulled post out that had rocks in the bottom. I have douse the concrete is weak and very air filled 6-10 inches up. It looks like to concrete mix is separating and going into the rocks. Very odd looking. Idk if this was set a set dry, pre-mixed, mixed as they went. Would love for you guys to give it a text and see what you get.

[@chrisgrantham2341]

joe do you have a video that shows a double gate using your brackets listed on your website? I'm not finding anything. I'm ready to order, just need some clarification

[@JoeEverest]

So far just the single gate. The double gate latches work in the same way. With the exception of the actual latch being bolted to the gate from rather than the post.

[@noengerny]

You may consider advising folks against attaching a fence to their house. As a hurricane Michael survivor on Panama City, many of my friends were amazed to find out that their fence destruction would not be paid for because their exterior structure limit was used up by the shed damage, if the fence was attached to the house it would have been covered up to the total insurance limits.

[@ColonelSandersLite]

That's an interesting little legal/accounting quirk. It may or may not apply to the specific terms of a hypothetical DIY guy's insurance, so might be worth checking. I'm sure that what Mr Everest is saying is definitely the best practice from a purely construction POV though. That being said, I don't think you guys down in florida even get much in the way of freezes so I'm not really too sure there's actually much of a down side down there. In the midwest, winter is definitely a consideration that needs to be taken seriously. We may not have hurricanes, but we do have tornadoes capable of demolishing any fence. Winter is a certainty though and tornadoes are an edge case. I think that, for us, not attaching it to the house is probably the right call regardless of the possibility of having to make an insurance claim.

[@333cparker]

Note to us all that do not have a fence attached to the house. If a hurrican hits and your fence is destroyed run out and screew an old cedar board to the house and state that is where the fence wast attached....

[@Chris-717]

@@333cparker Just one screw brings the crew..

[@Mondo_0ne]

@8:41 that's what she said 😅

[@joshcowart2446]

I built a small gate to box an area in my house for trash cans. I ran into his issue as well. I have unsupported posts but the other side is the property line. Does anyone know a trick to reinforce that. My gate isn’t 5’. It’s more like 36”.

[@jasmineruiz2179]

Would love to see An outside view two or three days after the install

[@JoeEverest]

Agreed!

[@trevorlambert4226]

The guy thinks you can apply pressure treating yourself. 😆 It's called pressure treated because it's done under pressure, and it goes deep into the wood . He's probably getting confused with end-cut treatment, which is used on cut ends of pressure treated lumber. You can't use it to turn a regular piece of lumber into pressure treated lumber.

[@pbmartinfencing]

Wish these guys would do a “review” video of their work a year or so later

[@JoeEverest]

Oof, could you imagine?!?

[@333cparker]

@@JoeEverest If you don't have to go back that is a good thing and the reasoning behind using quality components and experienced workers.

[@ScreamingEagleFTW]

good vid

[@JoeEverest]

Thanks for watching and weighing in!

[@ScreamingEagleFTW]

where can I buy 12 ft 2.5" sched 40 pipes for 8 ft fence? Cant find anything at big box stores. @@JoeEverest

[@csvinylfence6958]

How can you be a fence builder or carpenter and not know how compression or tension braces work?

[@7628739]

Not everyone is there

[@Goinbig]

You don't have to know how they work if you never had to use them. 🧐

[@csvinylfence6958]

@Mike if you build gates, you should be using braces but nothing suprises me. I see junk work on the regular.

[@Taskarnin]

What did the host get wrong? Everything he said was right…

[@csvinylfence6958]

Look up the definition of compression brace and tension brace

[@AntEloftheHouseofEl]

Screw that for a game of soldiers. If I'm attaching gate's that size, I'm going for either a concrete post or a steel post. Although I hear that concrete posts are almost unheard of in the States?

[@JoeEverest]

Agreed, steel posts have become our standard in ver the years. Yes, while they’re somewhat available, concrete posts aren’t used much here in the States.

[@AntEloftheHouseofEl]

@@JoeEverest really odd that. I wonder why? A good quality, rebar reinforced concrete post is a beast of a thing. Dirt cheap too if you are competent enough to knock together a form and mix some concrete!

[@DerekTJ]

Don't forget, a lifetime warranty relates to the lifetime of the product and not the customer.

[@michaelamartocci]

Pressure treated post tweek like bannas terrible for fence post should be 42in deep. 2×4s are wrong way cross brace x pattern is to heavy on gate. 25year installer.

[@JoeEverest]

Great points!

[@scruffy4647]

Steel frames are the best.

[@JoeEverest]

Agreed!

[@leeknivek]

Why is there so much reverb lol

[@JoeEverest]

🤷‍♂️

[@joejones56]

I’ll never use wood again, just feel like it’s ultimately gonna need to be replaced.

[@JoeEverest]

Agreed! Appreciate you watching and weighing in!

[@joejones56]

@@JoeEverest absolutely.

[@caseyc4516]

This dude is more of a DIY guy with a camera..not gonna rag on him though..im sure there’s enough of that in the comments

[@mp-xt2rg]

Lifetime Workmanship warranty.... That's some marketing garbage if I've ever heard it. This is a great gate were not going to warentee the gate itself, but lifetime guaranteed that it was installed?

[@JoeEverest]

I’m sure it varies by company, in our case the workmanship warranty covers fitment adjustments to the gates.

[@visualadventures1998]

Butt joint is a terrible choice. Lap would be a much better choice.

[@JoeEverest]

I appreciate you sharing your experience!

[@deanle604]

Don’t need the pro fence

[@Ladosligese]

his wife prob told him she likes 12 inches more then 6 inches .. reason he went 12 ..

[@tracynevill8772]

Thanks for sharing sriff like this .... We thinking of doing this

[@JoeEverest]

Very welcome, always happy to help. Thanks for watching!

[@apollo8972]

Those hinges are way too small!

[@JoeEverest]

Agreed!