No, The Enclave Should NOT be Good - Fallout

The Enclave is not supposed to be a good faction, they exist to be assholes and look cool doing it.

[@teal_m_101]

My moral compass disappearing once the villains have a cool design aesthetic.

[@carbrand7527]

Enclave here

[@bigch33se11]

Warhammer

[@ineedapharmists]

This is true

[@Venator-Class_Star_Destroyer]

@@bigch33se11 the Imperium are the good guys, what ya talking about?

[@vincegalila7211]

I mean are you saying the Enclave is the only Fallout faction with a cool aesthetic?

[@vahlen5281]

The Enclave should simply be a "The end justifies the means" faction: Morally grey and heavily leaning towards black, but in a way that their harsh methods make sense in the post-nuclear hellhole of a country and ultimately are viable to achieve their goal.

[@alt1763]

That's pretty close to House's Ideology House is all about efficiency without caring about emotions and doesn't harm something he sees as a threat, similar to a "end justifies the means"

[@user-un5xj1wl6p]

@@alt1763 in my opinion house is more profit oriented, enclave should be more or less the described here...

[@plaguedoctorjamespainshe6009]

"of a country" That should be their goal Contrary to the rest of the world, the Enclave needs to feel that they are entitled to the United States territory, and their goal is to retake it (That's why in the end genocide is their "best" option)

[@lucasperuzzo7459]

Literally: Modern NCR, Caesar Legion, House and the families, East Coast BoS, Institute- Oh hey, we already have alot of "End justifies the means" just give us some evil factions that kills people for any reason, like idk Fo2 enclave or even Monolith

[@KinoTechUSA69]

@@lucasperuzzo7459 War never changes.

[@BlackSabbath628]

Wasn't there an Enclave scientist in 2 who was mortified to discover what the toxin actually does and helps the player sabotage it?

[@TheOmegaInitiative]

The guy in charge of creating the toxin can be pretty easily convinced that what he is doing is wrong.

[@DanielSilva-ks8th]

Well, he was the scientist that made it, so he totally knew what the toxin would do. He only helps the player if you can convince him that the Enclave's genocide of everyone expect them is ethically wrong.

[@BlackSabbath628]

@@DanielSilva-ks8th That must of have been it then. It's been a while since I played 2.

[@saintgogeto675]

@@TheOmegaInitiative which makes no real sense since he...created Frank Horrigan.

[@silent_stalker3687]

@@saintgogeto675 and he’s going to use it without giving the cure to other enclave bases… “Hello fellow countrymen.” - this guy wanting to chat to the dead corpses

[@user-rv4wn5qk7q]

They should be nuanced like any other complex faction in Fallout instead of being cartoonish villains. If Fallout 3 had developed better Colonel Autumn views and his goals, ideology, then it would have been amazing. This is what I am doing in Fallout: The Odyssey.

[@crusader2112]

I concur.

[@chaserseven2886]

This should be in fallout 5

[@authentic229.14]

Man, imagine if you could join Autumn in Fallout 3.

[@Subject_Keter]

You know how there is horny police? We need that but for people that simp for bad guys. Seriously the worst. Also for me atleast, I hate how SOO many Villians are ASHAMED they are dicks and want to be dickish. Oh i just want to help by dominating the whole world! What is wrong with a person wanting to dominate?! I swear villians cant villian anymore.

[@thatstrangeguy292]

Fallout : the Odyssey? What's that?

[@vincentnguyen1995]

I prefer the Enclave appearing as a “good” faction versus a more villainous faction in the region basically necessary evil. They should step away from compete genocide for the time being and go down Autumn’s direction where they want to restore and rule over America with the possibility of them continuing genocide in the future and secretly when they are more stable. However, I feel like Bethesda will keep using the Enclave as tougher endgame cannon fodder villains. I would like to be able to join the Enclave and start to think they’re not so bad and get attached to them then have a moral crisis on whether to keep helping them or not when their more insidious plans come to light.

[@noddy1973]

Sooooooo, basically Midwest BoS?

[@franciscoOrellana29]

don't think the enclave needs to be good what it needs is to be more human, the enclave is the faction itself but you can still make the people who work for it nice or charismatic

[@tranz2deep]

The Enclave is the faction that wants to restore the plutocratic version of America, the top-end fiction. Their vision of America is cynical and self-deluded, the epitome of "Same as it never was". The Brotherhood is ex-military seeking to prevent unethical and unchecked progress into disaster, and they've been growing more militant more or less since Day One, much to the chagrin of Lyon's Pride. The Children of Atom seek to spread the wrath of their deified atomic science and spur on a remnant of humanity that will thrive and not break the world a second time. The Institute wants to push humankind over the hump into a promised future even if it means leaving all before it behind. Several Vault leaderships are socially scarred by their time in there since the War, and that's before even going into Braun's experiments.

[@hungien5368]

@@franciscoOrellana29 they can just cut the enclave in halve one is what we experience and the other will be more open

[@BoneWalker]

@@franciscoOrellana29 Sgt. Arch Dornan

[@hiddendesire3076]

3:15 That was specifically the blundering of one Thomas Eckhart. Had he not sought power by delaying the emergency alert system, damaging the communication array, AND purging dissenters, the enclave would’ve instead launch their plans to rebuild post-war America using the White Spring bunker as its new seat of power, with Vault 79 as the new acting Treasury Department and the 76ers, among others, being the new work force and population as they try to rebuild.

[@marshallscot]

For the Enclave you could look at the laws the real life U.S. government has in place in order to ensure continuity of government. The Enclave might claim democratic values but in their eyes the U.S. would still be under martial law, and would remain that way until peace and order is restored.

[@opi2869]

Some people really be forgetting that the Enclave was supposted to be cartoonishly evil parody of the states lmao

[@ALLMINDmercenarysupportsystem]

I would say that that is okay in Fallout 2, as that was there first entry in the series. However, after that, they need to be properly written to not be just idiotic or satirical.

[@sergeantheavyass3471]

And thats why we love them

[@opi2869]

@@sergeantheavyass3471 Absolutely. Love em.

[@TheTinMan2077]

@@ALLMINDmercenarysupportsystem no you moron, because you don't like it it doesn't mean the devs went wrong with the Enclave, they're supposed to be an evil corporation, take your weird fantasies about the enclave elsewhere

[@Chris-es3wf]

Some people forget that this isn't an excuse to keep half-assing backstory for what is probably the most important faction in the series.

[@boomslick2436]

I really want to see a competently Emclave like you described, and I want to be able to join them for real because we haven't gotten to do that

[@boomslick2436]

I also agree the Enclave should dissapear for a bit. Heck maybe even spring up in a place like Texas and control a good bit, they need fleshed out really badly

[@mustheinsane166]

Yea, but unfortunately as long as Bethesda still makes fallout their shitty writing, and awful plots won’t allow that

[@tetraxis3011]

A good way to make overused factions disappear for a while would be a spin-off game in another country, for example: Fallout: China Fallout: México Fallout: Canada Just some suggestions.

[@neededaname4157]

@@mustheinsane166 Now that Microsoft owns them and obsidian we will see better writing like was seen in New Vegas.

[@TheOnlyPedroGameplays]

@@neededaname4157 except hardly anyone from the New Vegas team is still at Obsidian. It's not the same Obsidian as the 2010 Obsidian

[@swaggerdagger8976]

They shouldn’t be good or bad They should be NUANCED like factions in NV

[@vincegalila7211]

And how do you define nuanced? How do you write nuanced?

[@amanonplanetearth78]

The NV factions are poorly made caricatures

[@siraethelwulf8914]

@@amanonplanetearth78 Caesar exists to provide the narrative with a worse option that'll make the NCR's faults tolerable for the moment. They're however not caricatures.

[@theobell2002]

Imagine thinking the Legion is "nuanced". lol

[@swaggerdagger8976]

@@theobell2002 fair enough lmao

[@Spongebrain97]

Realistically I could see the Enclave being a stable authoritarian society that is more reactionary than the NCR. It wouldn't massacre random wastelanders anymore but wont asks permission to take what it wants nor make any treaties with any regional powers. I think a cool storyline could be something where it sets up a society that is inbetween the NCR and the Legion in terms of authoritarianism and ends up being economically successful. And the main plot being that it's in a small cold war with another strong faction over who will rebuild America first

[@axolotlvoidproductions]

You basically just described the midwestern brotherhood an Chicago enclave.

[@awesomedolphin9675]

Bethesda will never do that because they need to sell more games, if there is a faction that is actually rebuilding the country then there is no wasteland. Noe wasteland is no further games. The most realistic faction that is the best case for reuniting the US is the NCR, it is authoritarian to a degree but also has democratic elements and stabilized governmental powers

[@mikagrof9243]

@@awesomedolphin9675 I mean just cause there is a stable governement somewhere on the continent wont mean that it will conquor the whole continent and there wouldn't be any wasteland left to play in.

[@zwilder1]

@@axolotlvoidproductions There is literally no info on them besides that they exist.

[@Alex-yf4zi]

​@@axolotlvoidproductionsif they are even still operational

[@internetxxx_pl0r3r_xxx77]

I agree with you comparing them to the NCR. So I think having them as a joinable faction should be like the NCR experience but amped up. The pros are with all their technology they have the best chance of returning the wasteland to a pre-war standard of living. Even removing radiation from the land. The downsides being except for player intervention, anyone that gets deemed a roadblock is dead and gone without a second thought. Iron-handed Idealism.

[@citizenvulpes4562]

No treaties, no bureaucracy, just get rid of the problem ask questions later. Works for dealing with people like the legion, but, if faced against a settlement that refuses to aid them, whether it be for lack of resource or loyalties placed elsewhere, an iron fist will come down. Leading to a bunch of conflict between them and other factions. I can imagine a few faction quests where you help Enclave aligned settlements fend off raiders or retrieve supplies, help a few friendly NPCs with whatever they need help with and then when you start getting comfortable with them you start seeing a darker side where if they go to a place that refuses to supply them, they take what they need by force, by any means necessary. If that means killing a few civilians to get a point across, so be it. That's where you can decide to be a good soldier that follows orders or to turn your back on them. They get shit done, but, do the ends truly justify the means? I just really like the idea of the Enclave looking down on the legion for keeping slaves, and then have the Enclave force ghouls to live in slums, have the ghouls work in horrid conditions, to make the Enclave one step away from being hypocrites, as in, the ghouls aren't full blown slaves but they are systemically discriminated against. Then just have them straight up kill super mutants on sight cause they're "abominations".

[@MR.LMR1996]

@@citizenvulpes4562 Or weaponize Super Mutants as mind-controlled canon fodder like the FO3 Enclave division were doing with Deathclaws. In their eyes doing this to Super Mutants wouldn't be slavery. But the Enclave merely making use of the Super Mutants they create or brainwash for their intended purpose: As weapons of war.

[@harveybayliss3578]

I feel like with good writing you could make a morally gray enclave, something like the BoS from fallout 4, but still keeping the core elements of the enclave

[@mustheinsane166]

Maxson’s bos was different as that was just completely changed to make pretty much like the enclave. A new enclave would be more better than even that.

[@xtron1234]

I think the idea of a “good” Enclave is incredibly vague in the first place. There’s so many ways you could take the idea of a splinter group of the Enclave that’s decided to be more humane. From an authoritative military government to an attempt to resurrect a civilian government. I think it’s an interesting idea in theory but honestly I don’t ever trust Bethesda’s writers to ever take the idea of a “good” Enclave and do something good with it. Frankly they’d probably just make them the NCR with power armor as said.

[@Cappuccino_Rabbit]

This is why i miss the enclave We don't have many factions that are pure evil and not just neutral or "evil neutral". Let alone joinable. Making the enclave "good" would be basically mixing the NCR or Minutemen ideologies with the BoS technology. And this is something i feel bethesda would do if they ever revive the enclave for the sake of fanservice and not for storytelling purposes

[@spiffygonzales5899]

In fallout 3 you could join most of the evil factions... ....just not the enclave :(

[@archdornan5311]

@@spiffygonzales5899 you're born a enclave, can't just join

[@Subject_Keter]

@@spiffygonzales5899 Slavers need a person ready to do bad acts. Enclave need pure breed and you aint one, you should be lucky they didnt jusy gun you down in Ravenrock and throw slaves till they got it to work.

[@brianstabile165]

If you want a good enclave get a minutemen power armor or ncr MORE POWER ARMOR mod

[@ericpaunovic3579]

Enclave is as morally grey as NCR or even Legion, to have faction being 100% being evil is just childish

[@aat5739]

The enclave can always just rebrand themselves as the USA and not the "enclave" i say before the enclave should be erased it should be given some depth instead of being a basic villain.

[@Subject_Keter]

They would still be massively evil once the truth of WHO made up their members, all the people who could of did something but hang back and feast off a Dying America. A good game would reveal this to you like halfway and let you decide how to handle them but their literal presence is evil. Also namimg your the USA and "trying to rebuild" dont help, you had a thing called America and they let it die... cant even be bothered to kill a small tribe of raiders.. should be lucky no one remembers the Truth and hangs them off streetlights.

[@samiamtheman7379]

They often refer to themselves as both. Like with how Frank Horrigan refers to himself as United States Secret Service, as well as other examples.

[@shadowmasterking6542]

tell that to the Bethesda writer's

[@Thagomizer]

But pre-war USA was an awful fascistic uber-violent society. The opening cinematic of Fallout 1 shows us that much. This is the society that the Enclave holds nostalgia for. No thanks.

[@aat5739]

@@Thagomizer who says they can't reform, the enclave had numerous people who weren't that extreme but still loved their country

[@THEBLACKRIGHTWINGER]

GOD BLESS THE ENCLAVE

[@thekingtragic6593]

I just want to play as the enclave

[@thekietnguyen2673]

The enclave (for me) is similar to Armstrong from mrg, he have good intention but the method he use is outright evil

[@Thagomizer]

There was no good intention behind the Enclave. The America they wanted to rebuild was fascistic ultra-violent society that knowingly subjected its own citizens to the Vault-Tech experiments. No thanks. It was a pleasure to blow up the oil rig.

[@redline841]

A good inversion is how NCR starts devolving and acts like the America just before the Great War, and become closer and closer to the Enclave. Something, Something "standing here"

[@Lazyguy22]

Armstrong had terrible intentions. A libertarian nightmare.

[@theobell2002]

You think Armstrong had good intentions?! Brother, that's a self-report.

[@smegleymunroe863]

That thing is, after the events of Fallout 3, I don’t believe that the enclave has any capacity to take over anything. The point of the NCR-Brotherhood was was that new organisations with viable economies and large work/fighting forces are ultimately more powerful than powerful technology. I do think that the enclave could have some sort of advanced settlement, like Vault City, but with the attitude of Broken Hills or Jacobstown. They failed, and just have to accept that, and get by as best as they can.

[@plaguedoctorjamespainshe6009]

Set the game in a different place and before fallout 3 or just fo full on "Bethesda is one timeline and Interplay/Obsidian is another"

[@qwertyholistic3602]

There is still enclave high command, which is shrouded in mystery. It is also highly likely that they have a base in Chicago.

[@theazureknight9399]

Brotherhood isn't trying to govern anything though. Not even the east coast Brotherhood chapters. All the Brotherhood wants in 3 is to protect roads, traders and wipe out the Enclave. In 4 all they want is to wipe out Synths and the institute. They're essentially a private army. Sure, the NCR is expanding out west but it still has to contend with the Legion and are already overextending themselves. No way they're getting to the east coast anytime soon.

[@TheOnlyBloke]

the Total Reform path (true democracy, accept ghouls+super mutants, reveal the truth about the Enclave's past) in the Enclave Reborn Redux mod for HOI4 has some of the most stellar writing in events and flavour text I've ever seen, and it touches on a lot of the points you make in this video. would love to hear your thoughts about it, if you ever get the chance to play through it

[@EcclesiastesLiker-py5ts]

The enclave, like any faction, must have reasonable goals from their own perspective. Cartoonish evil is completely unfitting in what should be a much more nuanced world, which is what fallout, especially NV, has shown us fallout can be in a modern context.

[@vincegalila7211]

I mean cartoonish evil can very easily be justified from certain perspectives.

[@Thagomizer]

People have dedicated, and even sacrificed themselves to causes that were just as absurd and evil in our own history. I don't think it's that far fetched given the Enclave's isolationism in Fallout 2.

[@eyozz1305]

If you want to explore "good" side of Enclave, going for personal stories of people who are in Enclave is best choice in my opinion, like remnants in New Vegas. After all, Enclave is supposed to be "evil" since they are in universe where US government is not the best and kindest to anyone outside of, well, government

[@jeremyrossi2716]

I agree. It would be a nice spin on the usual Fallout story to be an Enclave soldier raised by their ranks and then released on the outside world and slowly realize the lies they’ve been told about the outside world and mutants. They could try to convert anyone in the Enclave to the truth, much to the chagrin of the higher ups who engineer ways to get you killed to stop it. A great place for such a game would be the Southern US which while not densely populated, would be very polite and ease the player through coming to terms with the lies of the Enclave.

[@cyantile5490]

Best boi Arcade has Enclave roots

[@yourethatmantis5178]

TBH no faction in Fallout should ever be "good". Factions should be morally gray at best. You can agree with a faction, like the NCR, but that doesn't mean they're "good"

[@xx_amongus_xx6987]

Hard disagree, many factions in Fallout 1 & 2 and arguably 1 or 2 factions in Fallout NV are good, not morally gray at best. I'd argue that NCR is a good faction. A faction being good doesn't mean I agree with them, and it also doesn't mean they're spotless. We're talking about factions in the context of a nuclear wasteland, NCR is pretty good all things considered. Same thing goes for the real world. No nation is perfect, but some are very clearly good and better when compared to others.

[@randomstuff9005]

@@xx_amongus_xx6987 NCR, as said in some NV video, while they claim to be restoring "Democracy" They're rampant militarists and expansionists, who bring taxes, and nothing else, spread too thin due to the corruption at the highest level. While also NOT helping the other factions, initially wanting to kill the BoS, and other factions, if the player doesn't intervene they don't help the followers, without the player. They have to be CONVIENCED to help. They're out there for their own interests. They killed the dream of Hopevile in the Divide, as they cling to the old world republic, without trying to make something new.

[@xx_amongus_xx6987]

@@randomstuff9005 Militarists in the apocalypse is kind of forgivable. They bring good values and protection to as many as they can. "Out there for their own interests", what do you think the wasteland is? This is why I was specific in my original comment where I said you have to keep context in mind. You also say they cling to the old world republic without trying to make something new but new does not always mean better. Also who did do something new in the wasteland? Mr House, The Brotherhood, The Enclave, Caeser's Legion, and the NCR, are all things from the past. None of them do anything new. Again, this is why you have to keep everything in mind. Yes, NCR has flaws, it is not perfect, and if we compare it to the real world- no shit it isn't an appealing faction. But when you compare the NCR against every other faction, suddenly they start looking pretty good to the vast majority of people. Also when you look at the NCR's ending/s, they seem to, predictably, turn out to be good for the wasteland.

[@theobell2002]

Fallout can have good factions but the morally good factions shouldn't be powerhouses like Caesar's Legion, Brotherhood of Steel, NCR, etc. That would just be unrealistic. The Followers of the Apocalypse is a good faction. They're a humanitarian organization but they are pacifists. They have no interest in seizing power.

[@AmandaFessler]

Agree with this 100%. The Enclave represents Pre-War America in its last days, twisted by the need for survival into an authoritarian regime unrecognizable to her founders. Enduring for generations in fortified bunkers and vaults will push this even further. Removing the genocide angle while retaining the need for ensuring the survival of America gives us not the "good" choice, but the "survival" choice. Or as you say it, the "necessary" choice. Perhaps to make them more sympathetic, you'd contrast them with something worse, like the Legion, or some new extreme faction. They would be "bad", but understandably so, and compared to worse groups, they would actually be preferable, even if not "saints". If only Beth had writers skilled enough to handle such an intricacy.

[@Thagomizer]

I hate the Legion, but at least they want to integrate all the people they conquer. The Enclave want to kill absolutely everyone who isn't them. So no, I consider them worse than the Legion, and the most unambiguously evil group in the entire series.

[@MrChickennugget360]

@@Thagomizer the Legion is one of the most interesting factions in Fallout.

[@evildude2135]

I think they should stay more evil than the legion, in my opinion they're supposed to be completely fanatical and willing to destroy everything just for the idea of rebuilding their nation. The best case scenario for me if Bethesda included them in Fallout 5 would be obviously letting us join but also perhaps allowing us to choose between a more reformed enclave and a completely purist fanatical enclave. Maybe there would be certain leaders we can choose to support or fight against, and possibly even a schism with other soldiers picking sides and splitting. Or even we could choose to overthrow a leader and take their place, becoming president or something.

[@Blox117]

the enclave represents modern america as it is right now, just more open about their agenda

[@ravenwhiteduck6460]

@@Blox117 and what is it the NWO

[@theguybehindyou4762]

A “good” Enclave is what the America Rising mod is for. It even has the Enclave rebuilt and led by pre-war personnel who woke up from cryo-freeze.

[@theseus0467]

I think that the only way the Enclave could become the "good guys" would be if they actually managed to retake America and reestablish the civilian government. This, imo, would be the most realistic way for them to become actual good guys. Maybe if they managed to just get a fuck ton of territory and have enough to actually consider establishing a civilian government. Also, are we getting "If the Appalachian Enclave won?" at all?

[@TheOmegaInitiative]

Yes, eventually

[@deflydefly5276]

@@TheOmegaInitiativeWoohoo another video

[@danielleighton4161]

How would that make them "good"? The enclave were written to be a criticism of the United States so I don't see why they would ever do some dumb 180 and a t like America being recreated would be a good thing. They're responsible for pretty much everything that goes wrong in the series.

[@Butter_Warrior99]

Well yeah, they’re Zealous Americans. What I think should be good, is a new but similar faction. So lets set up this senerio in the Commonwealth of Texas, why Texas? It’ll make sense. So the player is within the Capital of Texas, Austin. But eventually it’s revealed that the revived Republic of Texas is not a continuation of the decade year old country turned state, then commonwealth. It’s actually from a splinter faction of the Texas Enclave. And the player character is supposed to cope with this realization. Because the same Enclave has declared their home, Texas as a rebellious Commonwealth. And the Enclave will do anything to reclaim Texas. And thus is my possible senerio, do of it what you will.

[@user-ue8il6jx3b]

Are you by chance from Texas? Idk why but something gave me that feeling lol

[@CrazyAlaskanCoDShot]

I like this lol

[@The_Chillton]

You'll never see this argument be made for the NCR, House, BoS, Institute, or the Legion lmao

[@chaserseven2886]

Would it be fine if a rogue enclave group went good like maybe autumn survived 3 and is forming his own group of enclave

[@Subject_Keter]

Would be but as they deal with the wasteland threats, I see a high chance they slowly morph into Bad Guys who are trying for "something" that most people frankly dont even want or will hurt them. Like "We are trying to help you people!" "What did YOUR kind do when we needed it? You hid in the shadows and waited till no one could oppose you! If you love America so much ... Why didnt you save America when you had the Chance!?"

[@mustheinsane166]

Doubtful as you kill autumn no matter what

[@sopadumacacoumadelicia5]

@@mustheinsane166 you don't, you can talk him down

[@woofyou1186]

@@mustheinsane166 you can pass speech checks to convince him at the last encounter with him

[@Constantine_TTV]

Fallout 4 has a mod called America Rising, the best depiction of the Enclave.. and a must have mod for me since discovered

[@baileywooof493]

during the early years of the war the Enclave did sign an agreement with the Responders to let them use whitesprings resort as a refuge

[@Texan8505]

If the Enclave were good guys then they wouldn't be a good faction

[@michaelbraun74]

When the next fallout game comes out and if the enclave is back I hope they have the option we can actually officially join them like how you can join the Institute in fallout 4.

[@Alex_FRD]

Me and the boys on our way to casually saturate the atmosphere with FEV Kane 9B.

[@retropirate1]

The enclave did nothing wrong The wasteland must be dealt with

[@Subject_Keter]

The enclave cant even clear out a group of Raiders, checkmate. They have to prove they can their mojo. Not just whine at us.

[@zzurge1173]

@@Subject_Keter the writers of fallout two handicapped the enclave so some tribal could casually drive a boat up to the president and kill him. Literally written with intent to lose,which is just boring considering a faction brandishing the might and firepower of the United States in setting would be much more powerful

[@omgiTzkitteh]

cringe

[@Subject_Keter]

@@zzurge1173 Cringe Opinion The Enclave couldnt even think that the Chosen One COULD get to NCR and they are dumbasses who barely took out Tribals. Also did you forget that the Enclave in the Fallout 2 do rock their equipment advantage and still get creamed cus smart people get the Gauss guns.

[@zzurge1173]

@@omgiTzkitteh cry about it i guess

[@A_Smart_Donkey]

They fail to realize the Enclave were always the good guys

[@filthygaijin6566]

Even so, it would be nice to start new Fallout game as a Enclave soldier. It would definitely be more interesting than being a vault-dweller again.

[@DuneRunnerEnterprises]

And just think about it!!! As in Fallout 4,you an ex US army,and,by logic,if you see some authority,claiming ,that they ARE the US of A ??? What chance ,that you would not want to join then - "the good old USA" ???

[@hiddendesire3076]

11:06 Also in regards to Appalachia, Modus seems to have no qualms with Grahm, and even sells us serums for concentrated mutations. Even the FEV researchers discuss using the Enclave’s lab and serum research to perfect the FEV or to isolate preferable genes from it. Now granted the fate of the scientists is up to the player and thus we will never see a Super Mutant player mutation sadly.

[@kellerweskier7214]

The enclave, as we have one known to be in Chicago, should act just like how the MW BoS did, ruthless, locked down, but thats just to keep down the raiders and gangs. But they still accept outside recruitment.

[@Roozhy]

I think that whatever iteration of the Enclave comes next should be one that learned from their mistakes. Such as the legendary storyline of Joshua Graham from Honest Hearts. The Enclave, or at least a part of it, deserve the chance of redemption.

[@AbstractTraitorHero]

Can I ask WHY? You feel it deserves redemption?

[@Roozhy]

@@AbstractTraitorHero Because real people and organizations aren't static. They change over time and evolve based on events that impact them.

[@AbstractTraitorHero]

@@Roozhy Well yes this is true, I don't understand why you think a faction founded on horrid ideals and living up to them the entire time will suddendly pivot or find redemption. Furthermore? I feel thematically a good america of any kind just goes against reality, common sense & is vapid with little to say beyond pandering to American's.

[@Roozhy]

@@AbstractTraitorHero They wouldn't "suddenly pivot or find redemption." They have been beaten over and over again. Defectors are a real thing, new organizations form from the collapses of others. I also didn't say all of the enclave, just what's left or parts of it. Your stance aginst America is completely moot since all factions, good and bad, in the wasteland so far are Americans, even if they don't know it. The super mutants where the most evil faction to date and even they have fairly peaceful settlements not hell bent on eating people. Are you really suggesting that the Human Enclave is more monstrous than literal Mutants?

[@AbstractTraitorHero]

@@Roozhy 1. I just find it very overall unlikely we would call or recognize this faction as anything even resembling the old enclave. As well as the Enclave largely being indoctrinated people who heavily believe in the cause. I think New Vegas handled it best. 2. Not at all, the Enclave specifically remember America and WANT to restore it to how it was. They are the old world and our world manifest. 3. If we are talking fallout 3 muties yeah, but otherwise Enclave has always read as the most long term evil with the most horrid long term goals. Nothing even truly noble behind it like the Master. But I would say the Enclave in some ways were worse than the masters army.

[@venom0825]

I like this idea, one of the things that I enjoyed about the enclave, is that they seem to be the only faction with atleast a semblance of a grander plan. Where every other faction is just kinda winging it, or completely incompetent. Even the institute for as much potential they have, just seem to be a bunch of yolo scientists d*cking around with no real aim.

[@BearCavalryWasTaken]

I just want to see the Shi again, I think there is a lot more that can be done with them and I'd really like to see a monarchal like faction in Fallout that isn't as extream as the Legion as a main faction in a game.

[@commscan314]

The Legion isn't a monarchy, it's a dictatorship, essentially fascist Italy reborn. (Although fascist Italy was a monarchy, the King was powerless and Mussolini held all the cards.)

[@Inquisitor_Redacted]

I could see a Enclave splinter group becoming a "good" faction. I could see a faction led by a corps of ex military and various politicians. They could set up a sort of neo-feudal system with nearby settlements. The settlements pay a tithe and in exchange the enclave uses their superior technology military expertise to protect the settlement.

[@plaguedoctorjamespainshe6009]

The og enclave should call them communists or something That they are destroying American values

[@Subject_Keter]

You know they will get uppity eventually.

[@Burningsteel]

Who cares if the Enclave is good or not? Long live the Enclave and god bless America!

[@Subject_Keter]

"If you love America so much, why didnt you Save it?" *Enclave Trooper recieved 999 mortal damage

[@elecman748]

Because if they are good there might be a liiiiitle chance to join the Enclave

[@atomic_bomba]

@@elecman748 You should always be allowed to join a faction irregardless of weather you view them as "good" or not. The Legion was a good example of this.

[@elecman748]

@@atomic_bomba how many times we have been allowed to join the Enclave? (76 doesn't count, we are talking about real games, not cashbrab glitchfest)

[@theobell2002]

Average conservative.

[@storm-trooper-jj1873]

I really hope one day they make a Fallout where you’re originally apart of the Enclave but eventually you have the option to desert and join someone else (that’s the only way I could see them letting us play along side the Enclave without braking the lore)

[@Melkerliden]

Could you do a what if the enclave was in fallout 4. How whould they interact with factions and how would the the player be treated.

[@Red0543]

May I offer you the “America Rising” mod for Fallout 4? It’s an extremely high quality mod that adds the Enclave to Fallout 4 with their own (fully voiced!) quest line, equipment, characters and so on and so forth. Check it out! :)

[@Melkerliden]

@@Red0543 I have played it already. Its great.

[@TheOmegaInitiative]

I'm not touching that game with 10ft pole

[@sidonay2735]

@@TheOmegaInitiative please do, even tho fallout 4 is really shitty in terms of storywriting, the fact that the maxson bos, the institute and the minutemen have goals that are similar to some of the enclave goals could make it quite interesting

[@wolfkanji]

@@Melkerliden It got a part 2 called "Rise of the enclave" and the mod author is currently working on part 3.

[@tetraxis3011]

Non feral ghouls have a lot of value, as they have pre war knowledge, even if they aren’t engineers soldiers etc, they can still serve as historians, since they have lived through the ENTIRE wasteland period and some of the pre war period.

[@Subject_Keter]

Beside the whole ticking biological clock issue, they should try and teach the wastelanders anything useful.

[@dustiespring6591]

I mean… the remnants are kinda “good guy enclave”… basically a group that’s just trying to keep their heads down and out of trouble… could possibly have it where a small enclave settlement is trying to just… be, and you as the player can choose to help them out, or wipe them from the face of the earth.

[@Emperormonkeman]

If autumn took control and destroyed Eden maybe the enclave would be better as he only wanted the people of the capital wasteland to have purified water to gain support for the enclave he didn’t know that the FEV would be laced in the water supply

[@IiImonix3]

This is almost what the enclave in fallout 3 was. Autumn wasn't a cartoon villain who wanted genocide, but he did want to take control over all facilities and use the purifier to gain control over the capital waste by distributing water. However its all thrown in the garbage with the way how they shoot you on sight, kill pretty much every npc in the game they run across, and even kill Amata after she gives them what they want. It makes no fucking sense and I hate that its done this way cause it just goes back to making them look like cartoonish villains.

[@ericcopeland3434]

I disagree with the idea that the NCR was unfitting to the wasteland because it was never really a democracy. It's a oligarchy controlled by ranchers and water barons, not much different to Iron Age democratic/republican societies like the Romans or a lot of the Greeks. Even before the ranchers expanded their power Tandi had no opposition and was basically a dictator

[@citizenvulpes4562]

The Enclave should be a dark mirror of the NCR.

[@afro_souledits2382]

When I think of the enclave I think of the strict war hammer space marines chapters while the brotherhood are a mix of tech priest and less strict space marine chapters

[@mercury5003]

I actually never wanted the enclave to come back until seeing this video realizing the unexplored narrative potential.

[@glassofmilk3474]

I always saw the Enclave as the post Endor imperial remnant, powerful, evil and very damn resilient.

[@Alan-wj5zc]

When was it established that antagonists all have to be morally ambiguous. An antagonist can be wholly evil and still elevate a story to new levels. Micah from RDR2. Lich from Adventure Time. Dr. Facilier from Princess and the Frog, Palpatine from Star Wars. You just have to make them committed, logically sound, or overtly cool.

[@My10thAccount]

I thought of an interesting plot line for the NCR and Enclave after watching this. A big theme of the NCR is that they’re walking the path of America before the bombs fell. A path that ended with the Enclave. What if someone from the Enclave noticed that trend and just worked to socially engineer the NCR into that outcome? That would be awesome as a plot point in a future fallout game and you could easily use that as a route to make the Enclave playable. As you discover their influence the player character could make the choice to either expose the Enclave plants within the NCR’s government and halt the conversion or choose to instead work with the Enclave and accelerate their plan which would inevitably result in the NCR being effectively annexed by the Enclave.

[@hiddendesire3076]

3:31 At least what was mentioned in the PTS, Orlando is the go between for the new Appalachian Enclave chapter headed by our friendly, yet disgruntled AI Modus. I do not see any real conflict coming from this. While yes, we have been arming Modus with the Bot-Stops, I feel he is sooner to have conflict with the foreign neighbors positioned under the green on the golf course, given we hear an entourage of Chinese agents do regular check ups on that facility.

[@Beingboredbeingstill]

Nice to see I managed to influence this video a bit through my comment on the Fallout's Enclave Problem.

[@enclaveboogalo3775]

I was thinking of an enclave who's at a morally grey position, which is not necessarily good nor bad. Like they're trying to be genuinely good but situation puts them always in an aggressive and oppressive sort. Sort of like how Autumn handled the enclave. I'm currently writing and and will be illustrating a comic that includes the enclave as a major faction, still struggling on how to put the enclave on the moral grey of the spectrum in a story which revolves around colonialism and governance. But that if I don't get silenced by the irl government in my country atm. This video helped me more understand the enclave's standpoint. I like your quote at "the enclave should never be the best choice, they will always be the necessary choice". Love your content always man.

[@gnomeknight2311]

I also like the idea that they play the with some ideas from starship troopers, the books that is, where in order to be able to participate in the democratic process you have to “prove your worth” with service. It could be military or unpaid labor or something like that since there’s a lot of good things and bad things that could happen in such a system.

[@xSavLandx]

I have a great Idea for the Enclave for my own Fallout Project and have been paying a lot of attention to your lore and videos about them. Thanks mate! and I'll let you have read through when I'm done.

[@deimos5412]

I was also thinking a "good" enclave would just be the NCR

[@BevvRatBites]

Enclave remnants and sympathizers should politick their way to the top of the NCR and take it over, rebranding and remaking it into something more in tune with the enclave's messed up ideals, enstating martial law over a population and becoming a mix of the two most pined over fallout factions that exist, imagine the enclave with a large population under their boot. It would show the democracy's faults and be one of the coolest and most morally taxing spectacles imaginable with the current setup of the fallout universe. The setup for a great multiple ending story!

[@colemclean1676]

They may not be the heroes we want but they are the heroes we need.

[@Palpatine248]

Evil or not they still got some fine drip and that makes me want to join them

[@gabrielaldworth7476]

God bless the Enclave

[@user-lk7xb5ll9e]

Everyone has Blood on their Hands wheather its Reallife or A Game Series everyone should have their Good and Bad Moments.

[@candymanva9629]

No one should be purely good. But no one should be purely bad. Except the fiends

[@ALLMINDmercenarysupportsystem]

I would say that, morally, the Enclave should be like NV's depiction of the NCR (or maybe more like the Legion if they got more of the planned content that got cut).

[@johnfkennedyinanopentopcar8976]

The legion support slavery the enclave don't 13th amendment and all that

[@ALLMINDmercenarysupportsystem]

@@johnfkennedyinanopentopcar8976 I meant morally. Also, we know that the Enclave has used slave labour to get the FEV from Mariposa Military base prior to Fallout 2.

[@Econ1991]

I would be interested if the next game the protagonist is the offspring of an Enclave remnant. Someone who escaped West coast or Adams Airforce base and laid low after New Vegas showed this can happen and means they could have to where circumstances bring you to an abandoned Enclave re supply bunker for you to decide how to go, not making the Enclave 'good' but giving the player choice on what they could accomplish with a fraction of their tech and power.

[@heavenderhause]

Although it's not cannon, the Old world blues with Enclave reborn mods for Hearts of Iron 4 allows the player to simulate what a good Enclave would look like if they were able to reunite the United States, if you choose that path, however it's more of fan game/mod scenario, but it's still pretty cool if you ask me.

[@lavetic2099]

What if the guests at the Sierra Madre Casino were not killed by malfunctioning security holograms?

[@LordGingivitus66]

My guess is that they would then surely be killed by the toxic gas or the myriad of other "tests" the Think Tank and Sinclair decided to run at the resort.

[@mattheModest]

Should any faction really just be "the bad guys"? It seems to be that it would be ideal for every faction to have a gray morality to them, so that there is no real correct answer on who is good and who is bad but rather a point of discussion. I feel like that is what makes many of the factions in New Vegas so good, as opposed to how they've done in in Fallout 3, for instance.

[@olmeno]

Legion is still a bad guy in new vegas just a rational bad guy and Enclave in fallout 3 wasn't genocidal perhaps they would be more humane under Col. Autumn then legion could ever be it's just that fallout 3 brotherhood though a bit mutant phobic was so charitable and morally good that it was obvious who's the good and who's the bad guy.

[@xx_amongus_xx6987]

There should be bad guy factions (still with proper rational or intelligent writing). Sometimes players want to just be the bad guys with little redeeming qualities. Caesar's Legion fits this well imo

[@T3nMiDGET5711]

I think the main reason people want a morally good Enclave, is because of the absolute nightmare that was Fallout: The Frontier. And it completely changed the way people see the Fallout Universe. Also should probably mention that the Enclave have cool armour and a cool flag.

[@tadghoconnor6806]

God save the enclave

[@seanvigil2899]

Excellent take on the Enclave! Followers of the Apocalypse take the good side of them. In a perfect world I could see a cross faction quest with and without the two. Enclave with two leaders that have similar, but different lengths they would go. One could be the slow and steady take over with wanting to take over with technological might. The other is an expansionist that doesn't mind the conscription of the locals. You the player tips the scale one way or the other. Followers could overlap and disrupt or join the Enclave.

[@oththakom9327]

And now I want a scenario of two "Enclave" groups in a civil war styled after the American Civil War. Except the Confederates are historical revisionists. Or since remembering the whole thing with Bethesda's "historical parallel" thing. Scrap it and instead it's the southeastern equivalent to the NCR that calls themselves the Confederate States of America and they have their own interesting history with the local Enclave chapter.

[@robertcross9863]

I just want to play as enclave soldier or have the ability to at least join the enclave or an offshoot faction of them

[@hazardousgamer9824]

The enclave: good intentions but bad ways to achieve their goals

[@Charliemunk8704]

I was wondering what if Vault tech had survived the bombs falling? What if more vaults had been built than the 122 vaults actually built? What if there were more vaults that were used as they were meant to be used for? In my opinion perhaps this would be an interesting idea for a vid.

[@garrett.9494]

Honestly, I really appreciate this idea of them being a well-written balance between morality and what’s necessary I hope they use a very similar concept like this when the enclave returns

[@shuntzilla1596]

From my experience the people that hate the enclave believe the institute is whats best for humans and having creatures as neighbors is ok

[@stealthSGMB]

FIRST. I LOVE YOU! But not in a gay way.

[@copycat6300]

Didn"t needed you to clarifie, now that's suspect, don't try to clarifie things that didn't needed clarifying; or you risk to sound very "i'm gay but I don't assume it to myself", and also, I'm not here to talk of politics-social, but in case you have nothing against homosexuality, note that's it's kind of harmful to that in a way to make it sound like it's something you want to absolutely clarifie you're not, not being attached in anyway in almost a fear of seemingly being ashamed of it .>. (also we wouldn't even know your gender if you hadn't added this comment Anon)

[@crusader2112]

@@copycat6300 Why the long paragraph ranting about it, I mean, you’re sperging out. No offense, but you’re the one projecting.

[@copycat6300]

@@crusader2112 I get it, sorry, didn't wanted to sound preachy or annoying, just wanted to give a bit of outsider insight on a possible toxic comment (for the one that wrote it himself) ^^"

[@crusader2112]

@@copycat6300 That’s alright man. Take care and Peace ✌🏻

[@stealthSGMB]

@@copycat6300 I had no idea gay people were so fragile that a throw away humorous comment would cause triggering, thank you for defending their honor

[@xxCrapNamexx]

You know what would be a fun enclave story? Them going full xfiles and teaming up with the zetans and selling out the wasteland so they can achieve their goals of space colonisation.

[@_1_05_]

Keep the good content up

[@NuclearMolotov]

THANK YOU for remembering Curling-13 kills pure un-inoculated humans too. The original goal of the Enclave was to cleanse the world so that the Enclave could rebuild in it's own image. Though, it's important to remember that they weren't *just* the government. Whereever you hear of Poseidon Energy, the Enclave usually has it's fingers dug into it. The Enclave was also the military industrial complex and the corps responsible for providing energy to fuel that war machine. The Enclave, in my interpretation, is the very heart of pre-war corporate America whose exploitation of the world's dwindling natural resources including nuclear energy and oil was the catalyst for war with China and ultimately responsible for the apocalypse that followed, possibly also intentionally sabotaging their own anti-nuclear defense by investing into Vault-Tec which was also under the Enclave's control instead of defense systems like Mr. House possessed. The business leaders of those companies and political leaders under their sway became the civilian wing of the Enclave, while the black ops units, special forces, and secret service became their military wing. Led by people so drunk with power and greed that controlling the narrative in the post apocalyptic world far outstripped any actual notions of preserving pure humanity. It was always about maintaining a pure ideology and retaining absolute control, especially after all the rioting and communist sympathy pre-war, hence why the Curling-13 kills anyone not inoculated against it. It was always intentional and necessary so that only the Enclave's vision could dictate the future. NCR on the other hand is at least able to be reformed because of it's democracy. It's biggest weakness is it's greatest strength. It's incredibly flawed, sure, but a society whose most crucial tenets are equality under the law and the right to make choices that affect the government through voting can always change and become better, whereas factions like the Enclave and Brotherhood are doomed to stagnate if they continue to refuse to change and keep living in the past.

[@discxple]

" Who doesn't want to be the bad guy " - Blackbird

[@JadeoftheGlade]

If the enclave were to appear in fallout 5, it would only make sense for them to be primarily altruistic, focused on restoring America not at the expense of the wastelanders, but with their help and for their benefit. The events of fallout 2 and 3 provide more than enough precedent for the Enclave adopting a worldview which incorporates the mutated. Additionally, with the BoS's recent turn toward anti-mutant and anti synth fanaticism, a resurgent, softer, more tempered enclave, perhaps in conjunction with certain super mutant and or synth prodigies as founding members, has a fertile ground in which to grow.

[@ziggydo]

The way you described them would be perfect, post oil rig, desperately needs soldiers but are still skeptic against mutants and ghouls

[@morbnerd3980]

I think it would be nice to make an alternate timeline video about the institute, enclave, and perhaps even mr house just for the sole fact that they have a lot of tech and could feasibly take over the wasteland.

[@NCR_trooper-69]

The enclave should be flawed, but have an actual goal.

[@Follower_of_Yeshua]

The Enclave Shouldnt be Good but Be Joinble Faction like Caesars Legion.

[@st.dennie1149]

I just wish Bethesda could do them justice instead of making them a lame punching bag.

[@fuzzyslippahs8905]

There was a new vegas mod that adds in the enclave as more of a "good" faction im not sure about the enclave as a whole but i could see there being less villainous factions within the enclave. Still my favorite faction ive never gotten to play!

[@FIENDXIX]

I agree that making the Enclave the ‘Good Guys’ would be a mistake but I always remember the writing tip to make sure someone could comprehend ‘how’s a bad guy or evil faction came to a decision So for a Fallout 5 E campaign I have been running I have a plot point that the Enclave have changed tactics to trying to reinstate themselves as the ‘Federal Government’ by having competent agents going out and founding / reforming / or infiltrating smaller groups across the wasteland that align with what the enclave perceive as the ‘Plebeian States’ since they would still regard their untainted selves as being superior to wastelanders. The overarching plot they have is to dig their claws into Therese groups to assure they have ample manpower and resources and use their tech to begin to heighten natural disasters to try and purge the communities that don’t align with them while using their technology to shield and ingratiate their new ‘states’ so that the enclave look like ‘saviors’ to them

[@Jamief1585]

I think Bethesda should look to the Vietnam war to model the next Enclave on. The soldiers during that time would ruthlessly kill civilians that were unarmed and they were generally unhinged, however they also had a brotherhood on another level with one another, were fighting to ensure the survival and prosperity of their country, and had to watch their own brothers from their platoon die from vicious Viet Kong assaults. The Enclave’s heart needs to be in the right place, but they’re going about it wrong.

[@Randomusername56782]

Oh don’t worry, that sounds just a very pissed off Douglas granite in the back ground.

[@BDHLoneWolf]

Fallout 5 should have colonel autumn with him being exiled in fallout 3 as canon. It should be about building the enclave in his vision if you wish or joining other factions such as BoS, New Factions etc