NO you don't have mud on your shoe - proper pedaling technique analysis with Pogacar and Vingegaard

[@pgbus1]

Thanks Todd, helpful video. I met THAT GUY on a group ride in Naples a couple of winters ago. He gets around!

[@attybong]

toe down on flats, heel down on climbs .. that way you are not using only one but two muscle groups in your entire ride ..

[@toddn.kenyon6900]

Watch the top pros climb. They do not pedal heel down on climbs.

[@michael1]

You're measuring the angle the foot makes with the ground, but whether your toes are pointed down, or your foot is flat or dorsiflexed has to be measured against the leg not the ground (unless your leg is vertical - which it never is on a bike because there's always a bend in your leg even at the bottom of the stroke). E.g at the back of the stroke when you're saying his foot is nearly vertical, toes down, look where the shin is. His foot may be slightly toes down but certainly not a significant amount and there are points in this video where the toes are dorsiflexed , but again, not by a significant amount. The end result is that ankling is involved in these guys pedal stroke but only a relatively small angle and the foot is mostly flat. Your 'nearly vertical foot' stuff missed where the leg was - they aren't pointing their toes down like a ballerina they are moving their lower leg at an angle to the floor. Now, of course if someone is telling you not to point your toes down they don't mean your foot is level with the ground around the whole pedal stroke - there's your misunderstanding. Similarly if someone watches pogacar here and sees his foot looks vertical he'd be making a similar mistake if he thought he had to point his toes down to an extreme degree as his foot moves backwards - your leg moving up and the angle your shin at will make your foot vertical when it's close to being at 90 degrees to your leg - i.e what would be flat if you were stood up.

[@ttbikefitdotcom]

@@michael1 this is correct. There is never a large amount of plantar or dorsiflexion relative to the shin, other than perhaps a small amount of dorsi during max power phase and in some cases a small amount of plantar toward bottom of stroke. I focused on foot attitude because the incorrect advice many riders receive refers to that and it is easier to visualize. You are also correct that there shouldn’t be significant plantar flexion as this can lead to a variety of problems (calf, Achilles) and too much dorsi flexion will as well, and likely results in power loss.

[@toddkruger6849]

Do you think they are too far forward?

[@edsassler]

Has anyone ever created a good cyclist from a new rider by watching how the pros do it?

[@speedbird4576]

One thing you forgot is that the angle of the depends on the saddle height, you get that angle of foot with a higher saddle height and a flatter foot angle with a slighy lower saddle height

[@toddn.kenyon6900]

Only at the extremes of saddle range. Most riders tend to conserve their preferred foot angle through a range of reasonable saddle heights, and many will even with very low/high saddles. But yes at some point (very high saddle) the toe is forced down.

[@Alfi-rp6il]

The only thing you should think about when pedaling is that you should not think about pedaling when pedaling.

[@ttbikefitdotcom]

I would generally agree. Most folks, especially those with plenty of miles will pedal just fine. But visualization can always be helpful, because I still feel that I can slip into “pedaling squares” on a bad day. It’s subtle and everyone needs to find their own method.

[@robertog3875]

I think it was Greg LeMond who advocated for the "scraping mud off your cleats" pedal stroke technique... but as I remember it was more of a technique to use while climbing. I'll have to watch Pogi on the climbs more closely to see if he modifies his technique while on the climbs

[@ttbikefitdotcom]

Could have been - I was shocked to see some 80s Lemond footage - they really grinded the big gears up the hills back in those days (likely because they didn't have nearly the gearing range they do today). Pogi will climb with same technique you see in that video unless he's forced to drop cadence way down, and even then he may not change much.

[@robertog3875]

​@@ttbikefitdotcomand another topic would be cleat position.. in line with ball of foot or do they line it up behind ball of foot line

[@escamunicha4276]

If pogi and jv were to assume a beginner position /more upright then their foot would be comsidered flat. They only look like they toe down because their whole body is fully rotated forward. The term they use is cycle like your anklea are on a cast meaning your leg amd foot are always at an L position

[@MazingerZX]

This.

[@_nico3320]

Another good example would be Van der Poel. His pedal stroke is so toe down I almost want to lower his saddle

[@ttbikefitdotcom]

@@_nico3320 almost all of them use the same technique. My experience thru thousands of bike fits is that the foot angle will not change much until the saddle is very high or very low. The rider will try to maintain their preferred angles.

[@Shadowboost]

​@@ttbikefitdotcom my foot angle will change depending on what bike I'm riding and its geometry/crank length

[@ttbikefitdotcom]

@@Shadowboost yes foot angle will generally be steeper on a tri bike as everything is effectively rotated forward. So this might translate to road bikes with slack vs steep effective seat angles. The degree of change will mirror the approx change in effective seat angle.

[@DavidLipscombcisthesystem]

Spot on

[@johntaylor6305]

Eddy Merck was heal down this debate of toe down heal down pedaling has been going on forever. The science speaks different. They have not come up with a conclusion on whether toe down or heal down is better. They say it’s up to the rider.

[@teddorosheff1929]

First issue i have with this analysis is that we're looking at a point in the race where Vingegaard is keeping himself in a position where he can quickly respond to a hard attack from Pogacar. From this position, all Vingegaard needs to do is standup on his pedals to quickly close down the attack that he knows is coming. I would argue that that is not going to be an efficient pedaling position. In this position, he is very quad dominant and probably wouldn't be his ideal position for a lower intensity longer effort, where "proper pedaling technique" for the purpose of prolonging the onset of fatigue, would matter most. I would also say that not thinking about the way you pedal, and letting it come naturally, isn't always the right choice. Sometimes you need to consciously adjust what muscles you are driving the pedals with, if only to give other muscle groups a bit of a break. Consciously adjusting your position on the saddle, for example switching from mostly on the nose to more on the middle or back, is going to force you to use more of your glutes and give those overworked quads a rest. And moving on the saddle isn't the only way to achieve this. Those visualizations (ie scraping mud off the shoe, which i'm actually not a fan of) can be very powerful queues in adjusting the way you pedal.

[@stevenking9283]

they have more than one leg

[@frondantrieb]

Do you know THAT GUY who makes videos on youtube telling you what to do? Don't be THAT GUY. Just live your life and do what and how you wanna do it.