How much speed can you buy? Tarmac SL7 S-Works vs SL6 Sport

[@raphaeltiziani7476]

7% faster but 600% more expensive :D

[@undentifiedkc]

if it help u win the race and get the prize, the 600% increase in pricing actually bringing in profit for us average joe, any bikes is good enough

[@jasonjohnson9072]

Law of diminishing returns

[@mrmrmaples]

@@jasonjohnson9072 law of increasing profits

[@jasonjohnson9072]

@@mrmrmaples not necisarily. It takes more research and higher costs to make smaller gains the further you get down the line of technological advancement. The same is true for any area of research. Bikes are no different and of course companies do’n’t do it out of the kindness of their hearts, they want to profit and why shouldn’t they? The bike manufacturing industry is flooded with great bikes, manufacturers are under constant pressure to make each model better than the last. I’d bet anything that if you put all the costs together for R&D and manufacturing that margins today are a fraction of what they were 20 or 30 years ago.

[@joaoletelier8735]

@@mrmrmaples if you are fast enough to race for any significant amount of money*

[@ChrisSollieClimbAndStuff]

How lovely is this setting. I love the change you throw in every now and then. You really are improving our viewing experience besides the fact that you feed us with new information. Thanks again for the videos!

[@NorCalCycling]

Thank you so much!

[@ChrisRiekert99]

Thank you!

[@frozenbean]

Jeff absolutely nailing the "Saturday Dad" look.

[@NorCalCycling]

👌

[@rubendeklerkdeklerkperform5501]

Wow this is so much better than all the mainstream media bike 'tests'

[@ChrisRiekert99]

🙌🏻thanks!

[@derekeggiman3751]

I really liked this video and concept and look forward to your further tests! When considering a $2500 bike to a $12k bike the next question, what can you do to close that gap with some thoughtful and deliberate upgrades is a really interesting one. Wheels, Carbon aero handlebars, lighter seat; all could be easily added making a ~$4500 sl6 vs a 12k sl7. For those of us spending our own money on bikes, that price difference is still enormous!

[@weaselfever]

excellent vid. seems like a ton of work was put into it and it shows

[@ChrisRiekert99]

Thank you!

[@alextasch8114]

I remember watching this video when it first came out and I really enjoyed it. I just watched it again and want to tell you guys you did a really great job. I quit racing and riding at the end of the 2016 season. I started riding again Jan 2020, bought a 2020 Venge Jan 21. I have a 39.5 mile KOM from 2015 when I was super fit. I just rode the Segment on my Venge and was within 5 minutes of my PR with 50 watts less for the 2 hour average. I am confident that if i go hard on the Venge i will best my old PR. Thanks again the video was amazing.

[@joakim0005]

during the video i was wondering "what if they have the same wheels?" . Hurry this test! And thank you !

[@MrMaxlo1]

Yes! The wheels should be responsible for a larger difference than the frame.

[@toxicexplorer1382]

But after that its the difference also in cockpit, seat post, innertubes etc. If you just want to compare the frames, you might as well take it from the manufacturer's info graphs.

[@flynando]

I guess it would't be more than 2 minutes.

[@derekeggiman3751]

@@toxicexplorer1382 Yes and no. Keep in mind, real world, they are still comparing a ~$2500 to a $12000 base bike. It will be interesting to see if they can get an sl6 sport close with a bit of selective upgrade!

[@ChrisRiekert99]

😈🥳

[@thecyclingfactor8055]

Got to nearly the end and was confident much of the difference was due to the wheels. Specialized specs really heavy wheels on their lower end bikes, looking forward to the next video!

[@TheRimBrakeGuy]

When you realize that a 12k priced bike is just fluff, you will go and find real bargains in the market that are the same speed as this one.

[@rserton]

Having watched NorCal Cycling videos for so long with just Jeff's voiceover, it feels really weird to see his voice coming out of a person on screen.

[@ThePixelize]

Awesome! Pretty astounded by the difference. That 'cheap' Tarmac is no slouch, either. Should've used the same power meter (pedals) though, ideally. If one's reading 2% high and the other one 2% low (all within spec) you already have more than half the difference accounted for. Starting with the wheels, swap component-by component to close in on where that time's lost.

[@ChrisRiekert99]

We called that out... The SL7 was SRAM and the SL6 was Shimano... we had to make the call to just send it knowing that it could be a factor. Likewise... we did test multiple days and saw similar results. AND HR run to run was the same.

[@joshuasmith4315]

Yeahhh different power meters is a deal breaker

[@ChrisRiekert99]

@@joshuasmith4315 Yea, these guys suck. They didn't even consider that!

[@MrBJPitt]

Assioma duos ftw, perfect for this situation.

[@ThePixelize]

@@MrBJPitt exactly, or even the Garmin Vectors.

[@samdahrooge5847]

I know you guys said it's a crushing victory for the SL7 but for a casual rider like myself. Whether I finish my ride in 2 hours or 2 hours and 10 mins it doesn't bother me. These videos really help me not get caught up in the marketing bs. Can't wait for the next one.

[@dpw420]

Great video! I have an sl6 sport with zipp 404 and I love it.. wheels make a huge diff, can’t wait for the next one!

[@bookingstation]

The dork disk on the SL6 is probably causing most of the difference.

[@pedromarques7341]

And the tires... How scientific is that?...

[@matthewk3233]

@@pedromarques7341 Yah my guess is the tires have the biggest impact, than wheel, than frame. Kinda look like slow good puncture proof tires on them.

[@bike6747]

Mike wouldn't let them cut it off.

[@luukrutten1295]

On the SL6: Turbo Pro, 60 TPI, folding bead, BlackBelt protection, 700x26mm. Easy 10w a tire to gain ( combined with latex innertubes )

[@NGRVRRaimondi]

I came here to make this exact comment. :-)

[@ericmagee9054]

Switching the wheels!! Yes!! Great idea. Can’t wait for the next video to see how it play out. This was very informative, you guys rock. Also great outro music 👍🏻

[@simfly11]

Love it Jeff! The relaxed patio chat theme is awesome, more of this please!

[@nicklove4771]

Sweet video Jeff. Entertaining, interesting, and that cinematography is epic

[@mathewemden2068]

what a teaser at the end. YOU GUYS!!

[@stalepigeon]

*While I'm watching* "Ye but what about if you change dem rims bru"... Then the ending 😱😲. Love the sit down style filming too, looking forward to part 2!

[@justinwbohner]

Change wheels: 1 min gain Change tires: 1 min gain Change whole wheelset: equality.

[@DCRUZ547]

Love your kits!! I have a SL7 (profile pic) and I am seriously loving it. No complaints at all.

[@whatwelearned]

Man, you 've added chapters, some transitions and drone footage. More kudos on the improving production, old bean

[@leonardogoncalves7]

loved the video. the most serious comparison i’ve seen so far. definitely subscribed to the channel. but really guys? 2lb difference is MUCH lighter in your opinion? a 2.03lb with such a humongous price range is a MUCH lighter bike? c’mon guys! that’s less than a kilo!

[@NorCalCycling]

ya it does seem ridiculous, but some people are chasing marginal gains and it makes sense for them. I did a video about weight if you want to see more, cheers.

[@jn01996]

I assume you don't have a lot of knowledge about semiprofessional or professional cycling but basically once that you have trainned for let's say 5 years it's much harder to increase your average power on a cycle. That's when lighter, more aerodynamic cycles come and help you make your faster :)

[@Scanlonc3]

It’s basically an 11% reduction in weight. Which is yuge

[@Sweatallover]

Such a great attention to consistency and detail across the test, and great b roll shots, can't wait for part B.

[@hedleykerr3564]

Having raced for 38 years I can say as you get older comfort becomes your #1 priority!

[@JohnFoxBass]

I agree. I am happy to report that the SL7 absorbs road irregularities substantially better than the SL6. It is downright comfortable. And I am using an SMP Full Carbon saddle with zero padding on the SL7. I have a Selle Italia Flite on the SL6, which has some padding, but the SL7 frame is more compliant.

[@hedleykerr3564]

@@JohnFoxBass Funny, I use that same exact saddle! Cheers!(Selle Italia Flite)

[@cyclingnerddelux698]

Thank you for helping me rationalize my purchase!

[@jiwangl434]

Great video guys! Your test was definitely much more accurate and applicable to the real world compared to others I've seen.

[@TheCbodis]

That green is the most beautiful green I've ever seen on a bike frame honestly.

[@christophersnow7703]

Jeff your videos kick ass, I always look forward to seeing a new one! I like Chris too, the both of you play off each other well, keep up the good work :)

[@seahorserider33]

Great vid guys thanks for that!

[@iMerkCODM]

I live in Morgan Hill & it’s cool to see you guys riding in my local area!

[@jevgeniardassov]

Yes, but the wheels from SL7 will cost as much as a whole SL6... Right? 😏

[@DSPotapov]

waited for it! great review! respect!

[@_Suzuka_Joe]

I bought a SL7 comp and then added force 1x cranks, force 10-36t cassette, zipp 303s wheels and zipp aero bars and a power mirror seat I feel that its been greatly improved and still way more bike than I need.

[@4headgaming448]

Great content; was really excited for this video since you announced it. Looking forward to the next one!

[@CBMaster2]

The wheels probably helped a ton too

[@ChrisRiekert99]

did you watch till the end?

[@dhess34]

Just found your channel, and love it! I’ve already watched a dozen of your videos!

[@scully2671]

I love your channel so much, watching your vids has inspired me to race crits here in Belgium and to start our own race with friends. Keep up the good content, I'll always be there watching it. PS : great soundtrack

[@marekzmazur2077]

Great video. Thanks for doing this boys.

[@096017hss]

This is a great video, Im a Legion and NorCal cycling guy ;). More importantly I had a Specialized Allez Comp and sold it, now determined to grab a better Specialized. This video surely helps!

[@benjaminbenjamin7388]

Great video love your channel

[@liefyergensen9575]

Thanks! This really helps with my 2010 tarmac.... 😂 but really, I love all this content keep it up 👍

[@Sir-Prizse]

I built myself a budget race bike for under $1000, a cheap alloy rim brake frame with carbon fork and 8-speed Claris R2000 for $600, has a tapered headtube, internal cabling, aero tubing and viper green paint (Merida Scultura)... plus 42 mm mid-deep section alloy rims (1,85 kg) and Conti GP 5000 tires... System weight with pedals is 9.5 kg... not light, but I ride only in the flat and I want to upgrade to 105 R7000 next year and save an additional 600 g (The Claris groupset are then fitted to my winter bike). You don't have to spend a lot of money to have a modern and fast racing machine.

[@ChrisRiekert99]

nice!

[@bottomowashington]

great video thanks guys. keep them coming

[@CycoWarriorx]

I’ve been waiting for a review like this... 🙌🏽... I’m sure some are checking their credit card balances right about now... lol

[@kissCharles]

the chapter timestamp is amazing, thank you for added that for us

[@jonyamasaki6725]

WOW, this is fantastic video guys!!! IMO, it’s what really matters most in trying to decide. I’ll be buying a bike in the next year and this data really helps my decision making process. Well done.

[@pescadoquemado]

Excited for the next test

[@mansson111]

Are we fast because of our kit? You can just hear them credit cards start to sweat.

[@dougnutter4372]

Pretty stoked about the experimental design.

[@OrianIglesias]

Really great production on this one boys! The quality keeps getting better and the content is top-notch!

[@robertchung4914]

Nice test. There are things you could do to make the test faster and easier to do but it probably wouldn't change the results so if you guys are happy doing the test this way, go for it.

[@JackRay]

Those golden wheels look 🔥

[@ericrobison8591]

I'll be damned. That is a surprising result. I did not expect that much of a difference! Maybe you could do just one more test, brand new tarmac SL7 vs early 00's steel allez. (that was a joke)

[@ChrisRiekert99]

we didn't either!

[@mincehogan9508]

i am new to youre channel, but boy you sure do have some real good content , thank you..............

[@paulysci925]

Best comparison the data and methods of testing are good enough for me😊👍

[@robdon7422]

holy jesus I love the new setting

[@Turbo329]

Superb! Superb! Superb! Loved it. The deep section wheels should close the gap by about 30-45 seconds but that's pretty much it. Can you guys do a comparison with the SL7 and the Allez Sprint kitted with deep section wheels and a decent groupset (Maybe one of your racer buddies could lend you one)? This would be a good comparo for the racer on a budget who's looking to get the best racing bang for the buck. I've been trying to convince my buddies on how good the Allez Sprint is and any data you guys produce would be most welcome. Keep up the great content. Oh, btw, Jeff, if you're still Zwifting, the new Kickr comes with Axis feet that gives some half-decent lateral movement. This should help you out with the Zwift sprints which you hate. I picked one up last month and it's great.

[@citicyclekidd858]

I own 2 sprints both dics and both 2020 comp pack and 2021. They are fast

[@stephenshepherd5068]

Tire rolling resistance probably accounted for a chunk of that time. It makes a huge difference. Maybe 5 watts per tire?

[@norcalchrismeister]

Nice vid. Looking forward to the next one!

[@JayTheDriver3]

Great video! Love this type of podcast format!!!

[@bikotic]

Cool video - surprised by the result

[@HaveAGoodHeart]

wow! looking forward to the same wheel test!

[@6SpeedTA95]

Love vids like this, real world differences. I bet half of those differences, maybe more were wheels? Time to watch part two. Just discovered this channel and I'm loving it.

[@wattspeakers]

That was an excellent comparison! I've always wondered what the difference would be. I'm more of a Trek bike fan, but the test concept is perfect... And yes, I wonder about the next test with better wheels on the underdog!

[@stafgruglnioe5122]

Chris looks younger in videos than on pictures kinda and Jeff looks so much different on a bike than I have always imagined it:D I think it's the beard:D

[@ChrisRiekert99]

Handsome in our own ways.. 🤣

[@MorganBrown]

One test I’ve never seen (maybe impossible) is sprint testing. In other words, try to quantify how efficient a given frame is at translating pedal force to sprint speed. That would have been more important for Jeff at Snelling rr. I “feel” that my Canyon Ultimate is less efficient in a sprint than my old Tarmac Pro, but have never tried to quantify

[@NorCalCycling]

I'd love to find a way to quantify this beyond the aero testing i've done on this channel, or marketing claims by manufacturers.

[@duketran6093]

Good point. Would be challenging to prove but, considering the value of the frame it would be interesting to hear their thoughts on this

[@MorganBrown]

@@NorCalCycling I guess you could just do sprint repeats, alternating between bikes, and time them. But I would imagine that timing measurement errors could be significant on a 20-30 second sprint unless you got a chip timer or something. And assume you would do it from a rolling start, which is another source of error. Not an easy test. Probably makes most sense to do it on a track...too bad they only allow fixies.

[@turnerdrywallrestoration8077]

Very cool video! I just personally went from a SL5 Tarmac Pro to a SL7 Pro and it feels like a completely different bike. Worlds apart!

[@ml48963]

Awesome comparison video, thanks! As much as we like to cheer for the underdog, it's a bit of hope for those of us with more affordable bikes to quantify potentially how much faster we could be riding given our existing fitness levels.

[@bmmaia81]

great stuff guys.. Thanks

[@easyeric961]

Great video ! Very well executed !

[@EstebanLeGruyerier]

Really nice video, thank you !

[@M.E.Cyclist]

Awesome test, love this stuff! I'm on the verge of getting a new bike and this helps reinforce the decision to get an 'aero' bike. Thanks! 👍

[@Penalist]

I cannot wait for the next vid! :D And, I'd really like to know a bit more about the difference in feel; if only at least in key words, like 'smoother,' 'faster', and what not. Seriously.

[@adamrvick]

I have been riding the SL3 for about 7 years. Now I have irrefutable evidence that I am not getting slower with age. It is all the bike!

[@mschmhegrt]

LOL loved the cliffhanger! can't wait

[@jdokk9]

Jeff and Chris, nice job. It must be noted that the setup of the experiment actually seems fair. It does make your result more reliable, which is always nice. The fact that the methodology is the largest part of the video is good, and the result therefore more objective perhaps. I mean, I haven't seen a youtube video about bike comparison with higher validity and the reliability than this so far. Edit: Secretly did hope there would be less of a difference.

[@NorCalCycling]

ya same here lol. thanks for the kind words!

[@ChrisRiekert99]

thats great, thank you!

[@simon.voggeneder]

I love your videos on bikes. You always cover the important issues and never waste our time. Your thought on how much of the difference is down to the wheels was like reading my mind.

[@andrewspalding6909]

I have to say it's really cool to see the difference in the "real world," you guys did a great job at allowing us to see through all of the marketing speak. I would love to see this same test with a slightly modded sl6 (which you are planning on doing), and I would also love to see this same test done between Specialized's two big dogs; the sl7 and the aethos... Given they are approx. the same price it would be interesting to see if the aethos' weight savings can chip away or dare I say BEAT the aero/weight blended approach of the sl7. Since we're on the topic you might as well throw a venge in there as well ;) Cheers guys, super cool vid!

[@jason200912]

The venge vias aero empathis will defeat both the weight savings pinarello dogma and weight savings aero hybrid of the tarmac tok

[@robthompson6674]

As the owner of a rim brake SL6 "expert" with ENVE 5.6 tubeless wheels and the Aerofly 2 handlebar, I can tell you it's fast as Hell. I have a bike that's within 1% of an S-Works that cost 2-3 times as much. The trickle down effect is a wonderful thing (so was having ENVE wheels to swap from my old bike to this one).

[@BostonPolts]

I agree, this was a great video. The big question I kept asking was to what degree is the delta a result of the frames vs. all the other components (e.g. groupset, seat post, etc.)

[@ShadowzKiller]

The thing is that races are done with groups. You go faster and save energy drafting regardless what kind of bike you have. If anything, the tires and rolling resistance make a big difference assuming your position is good. Only in time trials does the equipment and position become more important than actual wattage.

[@pedrotrevisan9693]

For me does not matter what bike, both are a dream

[@jds6206]

I have a $2500 carbon bike and a $9500 carbon bike....the differences in performance are, as you would expect, profound. Love 'em both, but holy shit the Trek is a rocket.

[@diamondsrubies9423]

this is such a well-written prac report

[@lauig]

Very Interesting, I like that format discussing it all with Chris as well. Now, there's one comment you made Jeff when comparing performances in cross/headwinds and attributing those differences to marginal gains from the integrated seatpost and cockpit for which i slightly disagree. These gains add up of course but they cannot amount to the main gain that must come from the big difference in the wheels (the section and aero profile of them mainly, + a slight difference in friction at the hubs) And that something i wish you could've tested as well as most frames can be bought without wheels and that's a common upgrade. I see many people buying a decent bike, then upgrading the wheelset (or some less significant part) not too long after this initial purhase and only changing the frame or the full bike a couple years later. So many of those riders do already have a super good pair of 50mm section wheels they wanna keep.

[@NorCalCycling]

You didn't watch the whole video did you? 🤣 Stay tuned, I'll be posting the follow up video in the coming days

[@lauig]

@@NorCalCycling Ahahah Dang ! I genuinely thought i had, sorry. Shows you one should never wander on youtube in between work assignments ahah. Well anyway, definitely not disappointed a follow up is coming soon can't wait to see the results. Always a pleasure watching your content, always entertaining and very educating. This one kinda reminded me of the one you did with the different helmets.

[@AllanPhillips]

Great video - fascinating stuff.

[@Ben-sx5xb]

Just to put it out there, you guys make better videos then GCN. You guys are a lot more natural when it comes to reviewing.

[@freebird61885]

Great, great video. I think another super helpful video would be comparing the Pro and S Works models to see what the difference is there

[@ben4373]

Great video thank you, throughout I was thinking ‘yeah, but you’ve got to try swapping the wheels around’ so super pleased that this will be your next video! Hope you ride the S-Works with the SL6 wheels and tires as well as the SL6 with the wheels and tires from the S-Works; me thinks the SL6 with the S-Works wheels and tires will be faster than the S-Works with the wheels and tires from the SL6...

[@gladyshughes8497]

Set up in my garage. Sure comes in handy. Works great

[@charlespackwood9219]

You should try the test again but with the same tyres and rims on the sl6

[@TurneyUK]

You nailed it. I’m thinking wheels wheels wheels, next video should be a lot closer. Obviously the SL7 will still come out on top but this should narrow the gap.

[@JamesBriano]

California is gorgeous. The circuit featured here is in San Martin, just over an hour south of San Francisco. Exquisite Northern California cycling is most certainly not confined to Marin County.

[@picturetoreality9877]

I was already thinking how I should say that the test is not fair. Hehehe We need to see the carbon wheels to have an accurate test. Good job. nice and exciting video!!

[@onilovni1234]

I used to say that Shimano 105 and a carbon frame were the only things I needed to have fun in cycling. But then, I got some paychecks and I sorted out my priorities in life; I have 2 Specialized Venge now and I don't care if you believe it's stupid to be 5-10% faster for 10 times the price!

[@davidreitan3609]

Are we gonna talk about the fact that Chris Riekert did a Cat 5 salute @1:30?

[@gio957]

Good thing it didn't end up in cat5strohy.

[@uk74racing]

Love your vids guys! 👍

[@tuscanturtle2846]

Awesome content!!

[@MrMixlist]

Awesome video! Now I have a scientif way to justify my lack of wins, thank you guys! hahaha

[@grego1355]

This video kicks ass!