NOT A GREAT PLAN

[@robertluna5737]

What's really sad is that there were so many cool ways they could have used these characters. If they actually entrusted them to competent writers and directors who cared about the source material. They could have easily used Wandavision to set her up as the big bad for an entire phase and used that opportunity to introduce the X-Men, but pissing off the fans was more important.

[@danjager6200]

@@robertluna5737 And here is the tricky part. They thought they were giving the fans what they wanted. They took poor demographic data and interpreted it badly. They then made decisions based on this data. Compare Deadpool and Wolverine to She Hulk Both use CG extensively. Both were expensive to make. Both had comic book characters. Both had 4th wall breaks. Both tied into D+ shows. Both engaged with the fans. Only one had a female lead. If measured like this, they are pretty much the same thing and the reason She Hulk failed was because the fans are sexist, but that's not the full story by a long stretch.

[@kbg12ila]

That's exactly what I thought would happen too and nothing that should've happened happened. Multiverse of madness should've slowly turned Wanda into even more of a villain, instead of having her being a straight up villain redeemed by the end. It should've carried on and then have Doctor Strange maybe be locked away by the end of MoM. Then Wanda's multiverse issues cause problems that are hinted in the other movies. The doctor strange breaks free in an avengers movie where he gets the heroes from the MCU and the Multiverse heroes to stop Wanda. It would've been emotional and high stakes.

[@xgray2012]

What a shame.

[@NerdChamps]

WandaVision made Agatha the villain. Almost all of the blame for her actions was placed on Agatha manipulating her. It would've been fine if the plan wasn't for her to be a mustache twirling vilian the next time we saw her. Multiverse of Madness is where we realized no one was minding the store when it came to continuity any more.

[@anubusx]

A Captain America film without Captain America.

[@Wolffman109]

Should've been Bucky Barnes.

[@anubusx]

@Wolffman109 Definetly.

[@juanporras4936]

??

[@NerdChamps]

@@anubusx They figure people already showed up for the Black Panther film without Black Panther.

[@guiwars2]

@@anubusxNo because Sam was chosen!

[@theanimeunderworld8338]

Marvel needed a break after Endgame take a 3 year break with small, noncanon shows while figuring out a PROPER plan

[@gabbodelaparrawrites]

Dang. I was coming to write this same thing 🤪 My break was two years, though with zero presence; let people miss them for a minute. I think 3 year makes more sense, but I still think there should have been radio silence with it. ✌

[@kbg12ila]

They should've included Guardians 3 and maybe No Way Home as epilogues of sorts and then left it.

[@stellviahohenheim]

no the problem is they weren't following the comics anymore who knew that the marvel committee was what made the mcu good

[@LTJfan]

That would be an excellent idea, but knowing Disney, they're not gonna stop

[@gabbodelaparrawrites]

@@kbg12ila This could have worked too.

[@migueldiaz7939]

Disney knows what their mistakes are but it's just cheaper to blame us and hire shity writers 🤷

[@danjager6200]

I'm not sure. What indicates any degree of competence? I mean I could be wrong, but if they knew what they were screwing up, wouldn't it be easier to fix their issues and just make money moving forward?

[@anubusx]

Secret Invasion was bad.

[@danjager6200]

@@anubusx And even if it was good, the show was too expensive. Spending money to get good will is one thing. Spending money and actually losing viewers is something else entirely.

[@talisavy1561]

“Secret Invasion” is not canon. Also, I thought that we all silently that we weren’t going to talk about the aforementioned show.

[@danjager6200]

@@talisavy1561 Secret Invasion should be launched from a canon, does that count?

[@famohsen]

It wasn’t bad it was an abomination

[@Matt_Mosley1983]

Jesus, I competely forgot that one.

[@InvinciDon]

I feel like She-Hulk would have honestly benefited from first appearing in a Hulk movie, and then you spin that off into a show of her own. The only Marvel show on Disney Plus that I’d say is perfect is LOKI, I just love it, hands down the best thing I’ve seen in a long time.

[@anubusx]

Doom and The Fantastic Four should've been the focus of Phase 4 setting them up. And being from the same universe.

[@BrandonDudley-pr6cv]

2016 FF Movie made 130 million worldwide lol Kang and Antman made 500 million

[@Matt_Mosley1983]

@@BrandonDudley-pr6cv truly sad

[@anubusx]

Kang was done wrong.

[@danjager6200]

I agree. A time traveler with access to all of the best devices and artifacts could be terrifying. Check out how he was done in Avengers EMH.

[@sprinkle61]

@@danjager6200 Kang could also have been done in a more modern, IDGAF Rick Sanchez style, where he just appears in the right place and time, takes whatever he wants, and gets away with it, and doesn't even see the prime timeline worth his trouble to deal with yet. This could have been done over various unrelated shows, like Thanos's dumb throne scene, but with more consequences, where characters lose some of their iconic equipment, and can't explain why it happened. They did something similar in Justice League animated, where some random dork loser gets a time machine, and uses it to steal relics and gear all across time and space. Its not that great an episode, but it does hint at how insane an evil time traveler could be, and what consequences it might cause, it was also a great chance to sub in alternate versions of characters, which this JL episode also teased, by bringing back Hal Jordan for a cameo as a timeline alteration.

[@danjager6200]

@sprinkle61 I did really love that story. Most Justice League episodes were amazing. It could certainly work for Kang the Conquerer.

[@Matt_Mosley1983]

they screwed themselves over by allowing a contract that stated ONLY he could play Kang...so no re-cast 😞 (they won't do that again)

[@darrekworkman5595]

7:07 What they really messed up on in Falcon and the Winter soldier is that they treated Bucky and Steve Rogers like they were somehow who they were because they followed the higher ups. Steve Rogers handing the shield to Sam and then Sam trying to tell Bucky that he didn't get it totally undermines Steve Rogers and Bucky's origins. Steve saved Bucky by disobeying direct orders. It would have been so much better if Bucky turned around and told Sam that he probably isn't fit to carry Steve's shield, not because the Powers that Be weren't 'ready' for a black captain America, but because he gave an F what they thought. There isn't a single Captain America movie where he didn't disobey orders from so called higher ups. He even disobeyed Nick Fury on several occasions. That Sam gave an F about the corporate and political BS is WHY he was unworthy to carry Steve's shield, not because Steve or Bucky didn't understand the problems of Black Americans. If Either Steve rogers or Bucky Barnes were in their right minds during the black super soldier experiments, they wouldn't have stood ideally by and let them PWB deal with him like that, but Steve was on Ice and Bucky's mind was being truly F'ed up by Hydra at the time.

[@vernonhampton5863]

Agatha was still trash. This is my hill, I live here.

[@shurenraorao4850]

Can I be your neighbor? 😂

[@vernonhampton5863]

@shurenraorao4850 as an 80s kid, I read that in Mr. Roger's voice.

[@iphonecloud1]

Crazy how the MCU did Ms. Marvel and She Hulk first and not do the X-Men and Fantastic Four right away.

[@cliffordterrell5524]

Maybe I am wrong about this but since the death of Stan Lee marvel hasn't been the same. Here is my 2 cents stop hiring people who don't know the source material. And the audience that watches superhero movies and TV shows don't watch it for a lot of emotional dribble. When you sacrifice common sense and intelligence for emotional drama it never works

[@helpmeiaminhell]

Also I'm not one of the "Chris Hemsworth is the only Thor" person. I wish they would have used a live action What If... show to use others actors to play these characters. Could have easily used that to branch out other actors into these roles. People age. You can't have only one person play Iron Man forever.

[@buccaneercat]

To me, Moon Knight was one of the best series to come from the D+ era of Marvel Studios. That’s doesn’t mean it wasn’t plagued by that era’s horribly cringeworthy writers/directors. It felt fresh, and offered a new perspective to the universe that I wish they’d explore more. But sadly since a lot of the writing/directing dragged it down, I think Marvel sees Moon Knight as an utter failure, and isn’t ever going to bring him back. To me Moon Knight’s biggest “No-no’s” we’re making his alternate personality Steven Grant a silly “adorkable” British gent, and shifting the focus in the final episode into introducing a new female superhero just to say “guys look, she’s a female Egyptian superhero. It’s not just about Moon Knight anymore. Aren’t we great??”. I didn’t mind that they made his alternate personality pseudo-British, they just went overboard on his hippy-dippy peace and love schtick. They focused way too much on trying to make Steven relatable that it hurt the vibe and pacing often. At least to me… I still wish they’d give Moon Knight another crack under more serious writers/directors. Smartly placed comedy is always appreciated, but Moon Knight has a lot of darkness to him that should be explored. They did a great job showing some of that in the series. Also, he’s got one of the most elite costumes in the entire MCU. I’ll die on that hill.

[@helpmeiaminhell]

We could have had an entire Fantastic Four universe by now leading up to The X-Men. Ghost Rider, Cloak & Dagger, Blade, Moon Knight, the Netflix characters and on and on could be street level shows that intertwine with the films leading to feature films. But no let's burn money instead. The whole "superhero fatigue" crap is complete nonsense. I could watch a new Marvel film daily if it was made well.

[@danjager6200]

@@helpmeiaminhell Cost per episode is killing them. For 20M they can make an episode on Max, 80% of a D+ episode, a bit more than 4 high end network Scifi episodes, a bit more than 6 tightly run SF episodes, 10 to 20 Hallmark films, 80 episodes of anime or foreign dramas, or 200 episode length indi films. If they had made shows with lower budgets and longer runs, they could have made the shows stretch over multiple months and thereby increased network retention and lowered churn.

[@accidentalmadness1708]

“My ego can’t handle that” Jeph Loeb

[@drunkdealer583]

Agatha viewership are: 1) Soccer moms 2) Wine Aunts 3) CAT Ladies

[@danjager6200]

Yeah, pretty much, but they budgeted with that audience in mind. That audience liked what they were given and they didn't insult that audience. Now all they need is to learn to do that with other audiences.

[@NerdChamps]

@@drunkdealer583 I'm none of those and I thought it was a passable show.

[@danjager6200]

@@NerdChamps And being a passable show on a reasonable budget was all it needed to be in order to be roughly successful.

[@alexandelsosa7718]

Also something no one ever mentions is the lack of rewatchibility literally all of these shows only need to and can only truly be enjoyed and watched once. Besides Loki really no other show can be rewatched because the MCU has narratively moved on and breaks the importance of each show on their own especially when one fails and the MCU responds in kind by making that series irrelevant to the main story. Now that wanda is dead and strange is training America Wandavision feels unnecessary or like only watching the first half of the first season of breaking bad cuz you already know whats gonna happen.

[@NerdChamps]

I still contend Disney + could've been nothing but Disney's back catalog without a single original project to be found. They could've put all of their new movies there after their normal runs. The only expenses would've been server space and a little marketing. They could've charged $4 or $5 a month and printed money.

[@vincentbrown4926]

Intriguing analysis. I bailed on Disney when I saw how boring Asoka was but also because I objected to the fact that my $ was fungible and was being used to make objectionable content like She Hulk.(I wish there was a way to track subscriptions canceled for such reasons).I need a parallel universe where Disney didn't try and make expensive shows for streaming and so their movies had to stand alone (no homework) and see if the movies were better and how the stock would look having not spent $1.7 billion on streaming content. But, I too hate the multiverse so we'll never know.

[@danjager6200]

@@vincentbrown4926 you can get an estimate by tracking the number canceled after something airs and subtract the average monthly cancellations. Unfortunately, those numbers aren't public.

[@mikewright8304]

Count me as one who cancelled Disney plus SPECIFICALLY for She Hulk

[@davidobrien9362]

Why is Downey coming back as Dr Doom seen as a wow move ? Just silly.

[@sonicdash9652]

Probably nostalgia bias

[@avengersassemble887]

Hawkeye, Ms. Marvel and Echo were all disappointing, I didn't bother watching Agatha.

[@DarthTagnan69]

Thanks gentlemen. Dan! Thank you for explaining the numbers and including graphs.

[@danjager6200]

Awesome, glad you liked it.

[@danjager6200]

@@DarthTagnan69 Out of curiosity, what other numbers might you be interested in. I'm researching Paramount and Sony streaming numbers, but they are so hard to track down so I might be at it for a while.

[@40preethammothikar55]

Don't worry. Most of them are already forgotten

[@aaronrod_1022]

It’s fun to think about what was or could’ve been but marvel is too far gone now but maybe more importantly does anyone care anymore?

[@danjager6200]

Actually, marvel might be on life support, but you should see the Star Wars numbers.

[@migueldiaz7939]

It's called bad WRITING 😢🤷

[@JammaLamma]

Hey Bridger love the numbers guy he was cool learned a bit good vid cheerio mate o7

[@danjager6200]

Thanks. Are there some numbers that you would be interested in seeing?

[@JammaLamma]

@danjager6200 hey! 🤣 Idk man but having a grip on what they spent vs the viewers they need vs the viewers they got is pretty cool thanks. I'm open I trust you bro 🤙

[@jethrosuhardja]

Surprised that you didn't mentioned "What If..." 🤣

[@chimpzchimpington2006]

1:48 Tell me you meant Thor: Love and Thunder

[@Bonebridger]

I did! Glad you caught that I can edit it.

[@alexandelsosa7718]

Yes I was listening only and I was soooo confused when I heard that until I went back and saw Love and Thunder scenes and breathed a sigh of relief

[@Jeradox]

Easy list, let me save you time: Everything after End Game.

[@germanxmascookie]

Loki... *sigh* I have friends who loved it, but if you ask me, both seasons were unwatchable with two cool season finales.

[@ShockwaveFPSStudios]

I know What If should be forgotten

[@NerdChamps]

19:18 unless you're @Bonebridger watching Agatha. Then you start on episode 7 and you only ever watch episode 7.

[@Bonebridger]

haha I might be the only person who did that!

[@NerdChamps]

@@Bonebridger If we keep spreading the word it might catch on! Just jump right into the middle of a series and decide if it's interesting.

[@Fhhddthbbchjkkog]

Very good analysis by the second guy ... 👍

[@danjager6200]

I'm glad you liked it. If I do more of these, what numbers and analytics are you interested in? -The Second Guy

[@hbsupreme1499]

Majors got screwed over he was running away

[@TimeVextorX]

Yeah he was running away from Toxic Feminity hired by Marvel to destroy him.

[@E_X_H_U_M_E_D_06]

​@@TimeVextorX😂 yappy yap yap

[@guiwars2]

The only shows that should be forgotten is She-Hulk and Miss Marvel! The rest of shows I loved

[@danjager6200]

Love what you love. Even the worst of the bunch got millions of viewers. The problem is that they weren't budgeting for the audience. Imagine if instead of getting a short season of Loki, they had four longer runs of less expensive shows. Even if half was bad, there would be more to love and they would get a larger fanbase and better customer retention.

[@kylebicker4853]

She Hulk and Secret Invasion are both bad.

[@itsnotme987]

I have to ask how many movies and t v shows are actually doing the multiverse thing? It seemed like after the first Avengers. More movies were ripping off the portal or beam going into the sky. Type thing

[@bizbaby]

Ms. Marvel SUCKS… they ruined one of my favorite characters. I don’t see this light skin, chubby, always 😮😮😮 like this is not the Ms. Marvel from the comments: I’ll never understand what people see in that girl being Ms. Marvel

[@Amin-j1d7h]

The leader of the flag smashers is like diet tinkerer And tinkerer wasnt even that great

[@anubusx]

Bringing Loki back was a mistake.

[@gabbodelaparrawrites]

heh heh. I read "Breaking Loki's back was a mistake." 😅

[@dannypalin9583]

It reminds me of James Gunn. When Yondu died at the end of Guardians 2, Gunn was asked when Yondu was returning. He more or less said “No. Yondu is dead. He's not coming back. The only way he can is in flashbacks or alternate realities. Resurrecting him undos his sacrifice”. Gunn was also against Thanos returning, his reasoning being the same. He wanted Marvel to move on to another villain. Bringing back Steve Rogers proves him right.

[@NerdChamps]

@@anubusx I loved Infinity War, but fridging him for shock value in the opening minutes may have been the mistake.

[@anubusx]

@NerdChamps I did not like Endgame.

[@NerdChamps]

@@anubusx It was a huge let down from Infinity War and most of the plot is transparently there for real world reasons, not in universe reasons. Iron Man dies because RDJ is done. Cap goes back and time and gets old/quits because Evans is done, etc.

[@DdHenley307]

I only watched Falcon and Loki season 1. The scene in Loki where they dismissed the infinity stones as paperweights clicked something in my head and I think I lost all interest in that moment. They were playing it for laughs but it just made 10 years a joke. I was never a comic fan so the movies are the only thing I know about the characters and it was all a joke. Canceled Disney+ after Loki and Obi Wan. Can't really even find interest in the good phases anymore either. Good luck to fans. Hope they get something good but I won't be waiting for anything from the MCU

[@hbks5299]

I don’t think the excessive show count is the problem, i think the problem is the bad quality. If we look at the marvel netflix shows, they were for the most part self contained and are still revered in comparison to the disney marvel shows. The shows feel so minuscule because they feel like building parts for movies instead of just being their own story and just working on that character.

[@theanimeunderworld8338]

I'm not sure Miss Marvel will get another show for a variety of issues

[@kingofthemanties]

This was great!

[@Bonebridger]

Thank you!!

[@jimh472]

This list was...inevitable.

[@JaeTheGent]

A whole steak? How were you going to eat that?

[@aaronwidjaja9227]

Hands😂

[@Matt_Mosley1983]

Excuse me, *MS. MARVEL* was _AMAZING!_ ... and she NEEDS to be hooked up with Peter Parker. That would be one kooky couple 🙂 (SHE-HULK was a waste of money AND my time and FALCON AND THE WINTER SOLDIER was a massive let down...especially coming from the writer of JOHN WICK) EDIT: I completely forgot that SECRET INVASION even happened 🤣

[@rishi.s3772]

honestly moon knight wasnt bad by any chance , and while the girlboss argument works for she hulk . there is no way it works for moon knight , as laila is a complex character . like steven/marc saves here several times . and she even cries . so i dont think she is a girl boss . also the jake lockley thing was firee . u gotta admit that . also in the end , it wasnt laila who defeats the villain its jake lockley . so i think u got ur stuff wrong there . honestly moon knight was a really good show , and im really hoping for either a season 2 , or perhaps even a movie with ghost rider and blade

[@germanxmascookie]

Bonebridger, your scripted content is fantastic.

[@Bonebridger]

@germanxmascookie thank you! Means a ton!

[@zyond3055]

Loki season let me down so hard also Loki is not Loki in his show he’s not cunning or anything like that I get he redeeming himself but like dude this Loki was the one from the first avengers it’s a huge personality switch

[@ciscoperez6879]

More 20mins - 1hr vids plz

[@zyond3055]

It’s crazy with each show u name it jus gets worse n worse

[@TheKillaMethod]

No more Jon automates?

[@Bonebridger]

Jon still on every live stream with me

[@danjager6200]

Jon's way more charismatic than me. There's no way BB would get rid of him.

[@hbks5299]

Honestly there have been shows that are enjoyable but ones like Secret Invasion and She-Hulk were pretty bad. I don’t see anyone actually saying Secret Invasion good at all. She-Hulk on the other hand, i seriously don’t understand who or what the main villain was, i understand it gets hate because of “feminism” but i have no problem with that, i have issues when the show itself doesn’t seem to have any real storyline or drive to it. I did like MK cause it’s a small character that tried to present a vigilante who suffers from mental illness. I think the mcu shows suffer from themselves holding back from trying to be all out and then suffer from being lackluster and subpar.

[@gabbodelaparrawrites]

Yay! Dan!

[@danjager6200]

Glad you liked it.

[@kaior1]

who even saw ms marvel

[@Nevertoberecorded]

Pidgey-man

[@oldi3Games]

The ms.marvel show was alr

[@marcacosta7594]

Wasome!

[@garrettprince9343]

The worst was loki, it broke the entire universe

[@hbks5299]

i honestly really enjoyed TFATWS due to it being grounded and not trying to stray from the established characters. It just sucks it came out during the start of the pandemic so the whole virus storyline involving the flagsmashers had to get removed because of its similarities to the covid pandemic and left a key storyline missing

[@gridlo]

FATWS had one clunky speech in the last episodes and everyone dismisses the whole series. It was great for the most part.

[@Darth_Lex]

You forgot about Sam and his sister using racism for the reason they didn't get a loan.... And, the old black man storyline.

[@gridlo]

@Darth_Lex I liked the Isah Bradley storyline a lot. John Walker was perfect too.

[@NerdChamps]

It was 100% garbage 100% of the run time.