"Not a Real Zelda Game"

[@davismorgan99]

The Future of Zelda Dungeon Design: kzbin.info/www/bejne/bGrPhKCebdh4nLs

[@lLIBER4TORl]

I like both formulas and I think there is a place for both.

[@austinwilson5341]

My issue Is it makes botw pointless to play. Totk is not different enough to feel like a brand new experience. The underground felt very boring imo. I loved the sky but i couldn't find enough new things underground. I also wish we had new towns, lots of new music and i wish we could swim again. I don't need the traditional 8 dungeons but i do want to feel like im finding new things every 5 seconds like in botw.

[@GUKingOfHeart]

BOTW has better pacing. So I don't see it as pointless!

[@mattttam2009]

While i like botw and totk, enjoyed both and put in over 100+ hours into each game, the reality is that shrines are all basically filler content, you're in and out in the vast majority in 2-3 mins (obviously intentional as its a switch game you can jump on do a shrine for 2-3 mins on a bus ride or whatever and jump off). If shrines are the futures for upgrading your health rather than the traditional heart pieces then fine. But i would much rather have 50-75% less shrines, them taking longer to complete or part of quests to unlock than just randomly being dotted around the world. Botw /totk dungeons were a huge disappointment for me mainly as they were just so short, taking twice as much time to get access to the dungeon than it takes to do it, granted some older games do this, the avg Zelda dungeon in the older games is more or less a linear experience which you could boil down to get new item, use new item/gimmick which is either used contantly (i.e. bow/hookshot) or never again which TP is quite for, ball and chain, the spinner etc. But the experience of these dungeons for the first time is 10x anything botw/totk provided for the most part. I'm not sure i honestly would pickup botw or totk again to play, it's for me a 1 time experience. Meanwhile i've played Windwaker, OOT, MM, TP multiple times over. The time it takes to get to the 'good' part is a little to long in the new games.

[@hododod246]

Yeah. You summarised perfectly. Typical Zelda cycle. Hate newest games until the new game come. Then new newest game will be hated and old newest game will be beloved. Honestly core Zelda fans don't realize how good they are eating. In every single Zelda game Nintendo is pushing the boundaries and fans are like "Meh. Why every single npc in totk doesn't make clear that they know Link from previous game? This is actually how people interact. When I talk to a person I know in real world, we talk about our history at least 2 hours. And why there is no connection between botw and totk? Ohh there is Link statue in the middle of Zora domain since he saved village from destruction in first game? Oh there is a full quest line that Link teaches events of botw to kids in school. I guess I completely ignore that. 0/10. Unplayable." And this is just only core Zelda fans. Tens of millions of people who got the game first time with botw are fine with these games.

[@SD-Reunion]

I've never seen a game cause so many mystery videos, theories, or symbolism explanations like TotK. Part of why I love the lore in TotK is the way it sets up more questions with each answer. Being able to explore those mysteries while playing and not playing is one of the best Zelda experiences I've had and am still having today.

[@56ty_]

It’s so funny to me we have to act like totk being a masterpiece is a hot take because “traditional Zelda” fans have taken everybody else on KZbin as hostages while pointing an imaginary gun to nobody asking to go back to ocarina of time lmao they’re so toxic, but they’re the usual vocal minority

[@Halo3ninja28]

The vocal minority accusation is a classic coping mechanism for casual simps of any controversial piece of fiction. You're not cool or better because you're a casual or new fan. You're just a useful idiot to whatever creator is having his creation properly critiqued. Take for example micro transactions in gaming. Almost universally hated, but people still purchase them anyway. The useful idiots defending the practice keep the rest of us locked in a miserable sad state. And those same people would accuse others of being the vocal minority all the way up until the very franchises using the hated mtx practice finally crash and burn and up until the reputation of the franchise is irrevocably damaged. Heck, look at Halo! Copium huffing morons denied reality up until it we got ten years into 343 and now the series is dead! Should the Zelda series creators see the useful idiots agreeing with them, they may stay the course and waste ten years before realizing, oops, we damaged the fan base for a generation and now Zelda is on life support. Never listen to casuals.

[@SkywalkerFoe]

Totk isn't a masterpiece. It's a dlc that took 6 years to release

[@56ty_]

@@SkywalkerFoe lmao

[@SkywalkerFoe]

@@56ty_ :)

[@austinwilson5341]

​@@56ty_ngl I loved totk but there was so much wrong with it. It makes botw pointless to play because it improves too much without making enough changes. The towns are mostly the same. And the underground areas weren't that great imo. I was probably more hyped than most for Totk and played hundreds of hours. The gameplay is perfect and story very fun and emotional (to me). The underground needed more life,we needed more towns and environments, I feel like it couldve also used more to differentiate itself from botw

[@xxglitchygamesxx1038]

I wonder what these people would think of Super Mario 64, which plays absolutely nothing whatsoever like its predecessors. Seriously, the structure is completely different from the linear platformers of games like Super Mario Bros, Bros 3, or World. Mario actually has a radical transformation since his inception, going from Donkey Kong (linear vertical platformer), Mario Bros '83 (score attack arcade game), Super Mario Bros (linear side scrolling platformer), Super Mario 64 (3D non-linear "collect-a-thon" action platformer), etc. This doesn't even count games like Super Mario RPG, Super Mario World 2: Yoshi's Island, Wario Land: Super Mario Land 3, etc. What's the most "true" Mario game? Really just seems like people were disappointed with the new direction of Zelda and are making up some arbitrary "reason" why they don't like it, rather than just saying "it wasn't for me".

[@Draezeth]

I find Mario 64 to be a natural progression from 2d to 3d, like OoT was. You still jump on enemies, hop from platform to platform, play as Mario, fight Bowser at the end, the works. The problem with BotW is that, from the get-go, they said they're throwing everything out the window. Link himself is unrecognizable (no cap, uses spears and axes as much as swords, right-handed), Link doesn't gradually unlock an arsenal like in *every* other game, the Triforce isn't mentioned in BotW, and basically gets replaced in TotK with secret stones. Mario 64 isn't a Mario game because Mario is its protagonist, it's a Mario game because it's clearly recognizable as one on *every* level. If you swapped out the character names and models, people would still be saying "oh, so this is like Mario but in 3D, cool!" If you swapped the names of every character, place, race in BotW, and renamed the Master Sword, it just straight-up wouldn't be recognizable. Nobody would be saying "so this is like Zelda but open-world", they would be saying "this feels like an indie open-world game, kind of like Skyrim but more free."

[@xxglitchygamesxx1038]

@@Draezeth I find it very disingenuous to say Mario is "you jump on enemies, hop from platform to platform, play as Mario, fight Bowser at the end, the works" because I could then say Zelda is "you swing your sword, traverse Hyrule, play as Link, fight Ganon at the end, the works" in which case BotW checks all those markers. The Triforce isn't mentioned? Well I guess the Four Swords Trilogy, Link's Awakening, Majora's Mask, Phantom Hourglass, Spirit Tracks, and Twilight Princess aren't Zelda games because the Triforce isn't mentioned in those games. Link is right handed? I guess the Wii version of Twilight Princess and Skyward Sword aren't Zelda games. Doesn't gradually upgrade his arsenal? That's untrue, there's literally quests to upgrade the Sheikah Slate and then there's other things like getting the Zora armor which unlocks swimming up waterfalls, but beyond that not every Zelda game had this, the Four Swords games for example. 64 does not play anything like it's predecessors. In Super Mario Bros 3 for example, you had to play each level in linear progression, start at the beginning and reach the end. 64 presents multiple ways to "beat" a level, all you need is to collect enough stars to unlock the rest of the worlds, you can replay a single level many times and find new stars. This is absolutely not an adaptation of 2D Mario into 3D. You want to see an actual adaptation of 2D Mario? Look to 3D Land and 3D World. They follow the same formula of start at beginning and reach the end in linear progression, a far cry from 64's non-linear progression. The only reason you associate 64 with "being like Mario" is because you accept that Mario can come out in that form, it's been a staple for 20+ years, but when it first came out it was nothing like its predecessors.

[@ikeblueflames3902]

​@@DraezethLink is unrecognizable? What are you talking about?? First off, Link doesn't always start games with the green tunic and cap (i.e. Wind Waker, Twilight Princess, Skyward Sword, Minish Cap, Triforce Heroes), but regardless, in BotW you still get the green tunic (a new one, not just the ones from previous games). This is like saying Samus is unrecognizable in Metroid Dread because her suit is blue instead of orange. Link uses other weapons aside from a sword? Let's look at Ocarina of time, you use: Sword Biggoron Sword (Two handed sword) Megaton Hammer Deku Stick Deku Nut Boomerang Hookshot Bomb/Bombchu Slingshot Bow Magic Other games add weapons as well, like: Ball and Chain Deku Leaf Gust Bellows Whips Various Magic Rods Etc Plus, Wind Waker Link can pick up various enemy weapons: Spears Two handed swords Boko Sticks Machetes Clubs BotW is just an expansion on this, with mostly weapon types from previous games, such as: Swords Two handed swords Sticks Clubs Hammers Boomerangs Magic Rods Deku Leaf Spears Bows Bombs Also, I suppose Echoes of Wisdom isn't a Zelda game either?

[@Draezeth]

@@ikeblueflames3902 Finding temporary examples of other things Link uses misses the point. Yes, Link *temporarily* wore other clothing and used other items in games, but look at the promotional art and trailers. Those other outfits have only ever been bits of lore, fluff, bonuses, or game mechanics. Look at BotW and TotK's promotional art. That could be any blond elf, because the default green tunic and cap were a part of the Link identity. Same with him being a left-handed swordsman, except for motion controls.

[@ikeblueflames3902]

​@@Draezeth It doesn't miss the point, because your point is arbitrary and avoids everything that's inconvenient to try and make it valid. BotW Link looks like Link, sounds like Link, acts like Link. He isn't some "blonde elf" because he doesn't have the same color tunic. He has the boots, pants, belt, pouches, arm bracers, hair style, eye color, ear rings, body size, height, even the Master Sword. Everything about him is Link, and the game rewards you with his green tunic. It's absolutely ridiculous to suggest he isn't Link because of color. Again, what about Samus? Is she no longer Samus because color? All of the promotional material for Dread has her in her blue/white suit. You miss the point. You assume color or costume defines a character, or even defines an entire franchise. It doesn't. Zelda is so much more than the box you try to put it in. Zelda II, Four Swords, Four Swords Adventures, Triforce Heroes, and now Echoes of Wisdom all navigate outside of the "box" that you want to hold Zelda inside. In fact, games like Majora's Mask take the series and modify it. It removes Hyrule, Ganon, Zelda, The Master Sword, The Triforce, and even the structure of the game and makes something new with it. BotW takes aspects of many previous games and expands upon them, plus adds it's own thing. This doesn't mean it isn't Zelda.

[@adamkahmann2937]

I think my opinion of TotK would be much higher if I didn't have to wait so long for it. Like I'm okay if we revisit the same Hyrule... but does it have to take 6 years?? I assume most of the dev time was allocated to getting Zonai parts to work... but was it worth it? I mean it is cool, but I don't come to Zelda to play Gary's Mod / Minecraft. I had fun with the Zonai parts, but it isn't something I'll be coming back for. I know other people loved it, but for me it was not worth the 6 year wait. I look forward to the next Zelda game but I will admit my faith is shaken a bit. I'm okay waiting another 6 years, but the Zelda team just has to understand that the longer I wait the higher my expectations will be.

[@davismorgan99]

I think the two year long pandemic in the middle of development probably had something to do with the wait. Also there was DLC for BOTW so the development timeline is shorter than most people think.

[@adamkahmann2937]

@@davismorgan99 I'm 99% positive it is the Zonai parts. I know this a different studio, but Eldon Ring started development around 2017 and came out in 2022. So 5 years (and it also went through the pandemic) means it has about the same dev time as TotK. However, Elden Ring has way more to show for it since TotK used 80% of the same map. Even the depths are huge I think they shared in an interview that they tacked in on really quick and it was easy to implement. The only thing that makes sense for the long dev time are the Zonai parts because they are very, very impressive from a technical stand point. Lastly, BotW's DLC still isn't a suitable excuse. Besides, even if it was I'm sure they were already working on aspects of TotK while building the DLC since TotK was going to be DLC anyway. Anyway, I don't say all of this because I enjoy trashing TotK, I'm just expressing my opinions that maybe the dev team should re-think their priorities when making a Zelda game. I'm okay with them coming up with a crazy gimmick for one game, but I definitely don't want it to be a pattern for them to spend an extra year or two (or three) spending time on a gimmick that is cool, but isn't what the average Zelda fan cares about

[@SooJoon17]

I'll try my best to explain and summarize my experience with TOTK/BOTW here because I'm not English speaker. So for any grammar mistskes I apologize. I'm not sure where to begin exactly but for context: I got my Nintendo Switch exactly One Year Ago. I know the console is now 'old' but I couldn't afford it before due money problems, the pandemic, etc. However I was able to FINALLY get it and now I'm the happiest gamer ever. That been said I obviously bought Botw along with Mario Odyssey, a must have. Totk was a gift from my boyfriend for my birthday. I have played before some Zelda titles on pc's emulators but always on a friend's house so I've never finish them properly. Time passed and I never got into it either. (I know the video talks about TOTK but since it's the sequel to Botw. I played the titles immediately one after the other.) When I started Botw I fell in love instantly: with the lore, the caracters, the world, the art. I don't need to explain it further because y'all know what I'm talking about. I made two runs of +450 hs. I remember being emotional about it and I thought to myself: "I can't believe I have ignore this world for so long but you know what? it's a good thing! Because I was able to enjoy the fullest it with no influence. I entered blind and I'm grateful for it" (God fucking damn it I'm getting emotional all over again while I'm wrting this😂) Anyways. After BOTW I jumped to TOTK and the tale repeated itself(this time with +700hs and two runs as well). My mind blowed away with the new mecanics and the extension of the map, needless to say the new lore with the dragon's tears. NGL i'm thinking on doing a Third run! I just love it so much. Thanks to these games I’m now trying to keep up to day with the franchise starting with the very first ones. I enjoy 8bit games as well. Here is the part when the road of my experience with the franchise and it's community became kind of strange somehow. Every time I tell/told people about how I lived those two titles their first reactions are: "oh, what a shame those games were you first", "you should check on OoT it has a deeper lore", "if you play SS you would see Link and Zelda have a better characterization" just to name some. OF COURSE NOT ALL ZELDA PLAYERS. I've crossed lovely people asking me what I liked and being glad I've joined the community but going back to the others I can't help but feel those comments are kind of malicious. They went from:a truly improvent and a very praised series, but now suddenly and out of nowhere IS BAD. It feels like they trying to sabotage just to be mad at something. I Don't get it I do understand some flaws like you David have mentioned. like the recycled map or how the change of direction while developing can be kind of abrupte. However it’s healthy for a long franchise to do it. Some bets are necessary. Back then when Totk trailer dropped the whole world went crazy and overjoyed. Many had a TON of fun with Ultrahand or Combination. Nintendo has basically exploited everything they could inside Hyrule’s Open world. The story is good written. They have put new fundations to the industry. So what happen then? I don't understand why these so called veterans are trying so hard to flip over the table and convince all internet with such obnoxious arguments that the games are bad. Try to convince ME these games are bad. I mean I do understand that if you go way to far from the original formula the result can lead to disaster. After all the bases were not respected. But I firmly believe this is not the case… Let just say these might be Bad Zelda games, but there is no way in hell they as a whole are bad. No way. Then again what happen the last seven years that the fandom have started this personal vendetta I wonder? Am I actually blinded because this are My first Zeldas Games or is the other way around? They are so blinded by their nostalgia that they can’t go foward with new experiments new machanics and extended Lore? How come they have got into over 300 of gameplay just to ended with a bad note? And most importantly: why the fuck do you feel like you need to invalidate the opinions from those who enjoyed the last games? Shouldn't you be happy that people has discovered the franchise because of them? That being said. I do hope your video goes viral. You have summarized all my thoughts pretty well. The long you are on internet the more learn to not engage with the fandom.

[@davismorgan99]

Amazing write up here! I don’t think they are bad first Zelda games at all. I have tons of friends whose first experience playing the series was BOTW and another friend who started with TOTK. I think a lot of the “not a real Zelda game” discourse comes from people who cannot let the old formula go, which I understand. I love the old formula, but Zelda is about pushing the formula forward and I think they’ve done that wonderfully. Fantastic English by the way. I speak Spanish as a second language and can’t write nearly as well as you can write English.

[@56ty_]

@@SooJoon17 you put it perfectly: people are just looking for things to be mad at sadly. The series is currently at its best

[@GamesareJoy]

I think it really comes down to nuiance, opinions, and personal prefrence. I have played every zelda and enjoyed most of them, BOTW & TOTK are my favorite after playing zelda all my life. It makes me feel happy knowing BOTW and TOTK inspired you to play other zelda games! Thats awesome and id love to hear what your favorite title from before BOTW is!

[@negentropy9560]

It's not nostalgia. I played The Minish Cap after TotK and I liked it more... I just feel like there was quality in it... now they prefer quantity.

[@Mister_MB]

FOR THE FANS WHO HATE TOTK: Some fans that I know said that "TOTK is a piece of shit! It's too bad: the story isn't clear, OOT is better". The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time has long been hailed as the pinnacle of gaming, a title that defined an era and set the standard for 3D adventure games. However, as much as Ocarina of Time was revolutionary in its time, it’s important to recognize that the Zelda series has continued to evolve, producing games that, in my view, surpass it in many ways. One of the latest entries, Tears of the Kingdom, is a perfect example of this, yet it seems to be facing an oddly familiar backlash, much like several of its predecessors did upon release. When Breath of the Wild came out, it was rightfully praised for reinventing the series with its open-world design, emphasis on exploration, and player freedom. Many now look back on it as a modern masterpiece, but I find it strange that Tears of the Kingdom, which builds on and enhances nearly every aspect of Breath of the Wild, is receiving criticism from the same community that once adored its predecessor. This pattern isn’t new-The Wind Waker, Twilight Princess, and Skyward Sword all faced similar resistance when they were released, only to be re-evaluated and appreciated more over time. The Wind Waker was initially criticized for its cartoony art style, yet today it's celebrated for its bold aesthetic and expansive ocean exploration. Twilight Princess was dismissed by some as too dark or too similar to Ocarina of Time, but it’s now seen as a mature and deeply engaging entry in the series. Skyward Sword faced backlash over its motion controls, but it offered one of the most narrative-driven experiences in the series. Now, Tears of the Kingdom is under fire, with some fans arguing that it doesn’t quite live up to the heights of Breath of the Wild. But these critiques feel premature and somewhat disingenuous. Let’s consider the facts: Tears of the Kingdom sold over 20 million copies in its first year alone, a staggering achievement when you compare it to Breath of the Wild, which sold around 33 million copies over the span of seven years. This incredible success isn’t just a fluke-it reflects the game’s ability to captivate and engage players on a massive scale. Tears of the Kingdom expanded upon Breath of the Wild's already groundbreaking mechanics, introducing new layers of complexity, creativity, and depth that offer endless possibilities for exploration and experimentation. So why the sudden cool reception? It seems to be a mix of inflated expectations and the cyclical nature of fan opinion. Whenever a new Zelda game is released, there’s often an initial wave of backlash, followed by a gradual shift in appreciation as players begin to understand and embrace what makes the game unique. Tears of the Kingdom is no different-it dares to build on a beloved formula, taking risks and pushing the boundaries of what a Zelda game can be. In many ways, Tears of the Kingdom is the natural successor to Ocarina of Time, continuing the legacy of innovation and excellence that has defined the series for decades. Yet, just as Ocarina of Time itself was eventually surpassed by the games that followed, Tears of the Kingdom has evolved beyond what Breath of the Wild offered, even if some fans aren’t ready to admit it yet. In conclusion, while Ocarina of Time will always hold a special place in gaming history, the time has come to recognize that the Zelda series-and particularly Tears of the Kingdom-has moved far beyond its shadow. Tears of the Kingdom deserves to be celebrated, not just for what it achieves on its own terms, but for how it continues to push the boundaries of what the Zelda series can offer. Just as we’ve seen with other entries in the series, I believe that over time, its true brilliance will be fully appreciated.

[@sixft_under]

They could take the totk type of large map setting, put a bit more story emphasis, and maybe make at least major dungeons a bit more linear and expansive. I think that'd be a universal dub

[@Zacian2.0]

Pretty sure a massive majority of the 'hate' came from xbox losers and sony fanboys. Anyone who likes LoZ games, even if they are more fond of older titles, will at the very least like TotK. Though I will say that anyone who abused duping bugs on their first run prob got the experience messed up, I had to restart because it was too easy when you had infinite of any item you ever get one of.

[@chrisb5000]

BOTW & TOTK actually took back the game to what the Legend of Zelda 1 was, which was a 2D top down open world game. Even the promotion art from ZELDA 1 looks similar to how BOTW & TOTK locations look like. Link to the past and Ocarina of time took the Zelda franchise away from its more fully open world roots.

[@lonecom685]

I've been saying this for months now: this "war" berween tradicional Zelda fans and newer fans is lame and exaggerated. Breath of the Wild was one heck of a game and was pretty much the most Zelda game since The Legend of Zelda on the NES, of that's even possible. It totally feels like a Zelda game, but with some new ideas. I can't believe these people would rather just want to play the same kind of game again and again forever. I mean, we had at least 5 major releases that were pretty much different takes on the same gane at heart and things were really starting to get stale around Skyward Sword's release. I don't know how people forget that.

[@2010RSHACKS]

BOTW was a tech demo they never finished. I really thought they’d finish it with TOTK. The games are so dead and lifeless and repetitive. There’s literally no point to explore. No point to find chests. There’s nothing to unlock. No reason to come back to a map after unlocking a new item that expands what you can do there. As someone with ADHD, I just can’t enjoy them. This is coming from someone who exclusively plays Zelda games and bought a switch for the sole purpose of buying Zelda games. Zelda was never a grind fest. It was an exploration into the unknown. It was braving dungeons and facing scary bosses to unlock rewards that made the game map more explorable. It was the wonder of seeing a chest up high on a ledge and then finally being able to reach it after finding the hook shot or other item. Finding treasure charts, playing mini games to unlock hearts and cool new items and weapons upgrades. Now it’s just finding weapons that break. Why even bother opening a chest in BOTW/TOTK?

[@lonecom685]

@@2010RSHACKS I totally disagree. Breath of the Wild is the game I played the most in my life. It took me 3 years to finish everything. And I had fun through the whole thing. The game has tons of content and a great battle system, plus the exploration and puzzle elements. The side quests alone gave me hundreads of hours of play time (not even counting the shrines, towers, story, etc). Sometimes I would open the game and see where it takes me. I would live the adventure itself. That's why I opened the chests. I tale that over another boring slog like Twilight Princess and Skyward Sword at any day of the week. And I even like some elements of those games too.

[@ridori7376]

It's not a war. We just want better dungeons, a proper story and more variety in the stuff you find in the world. That's IT. That's all we expected of Tears of The Kingdom, to improve on the aspects where BotW was lacking. But it didn't. It doubled down on all the issues of its predecessor, added even more fluff and Ultrahand which (while cool) is something literally noone asked for. That's why people are frustrated about it. It's that simple.

[@infinite1up389]

BOTW/TOTK are S-tier games. They shouldn't get rid of this open-air/open world design. All they have to do for future Zelda games is focus on making beefier temples and stories that the linear design of past Zelda games made it easier for them to do.

[@7F0X7]

Game sucks. The "water temple" was the straw that broke the camel's back for me. It was somehow *worse* than Vah Ruta from BOTW. Perhaps a really good, thought out Master Mode could make the game worth playing as it actually kept BOTW somewhat challenging throughout if you didn't abuse food/drink/potions. If they implemented a Master Mode specifically designed around TOTK and just limited health restoring consumables that could be used while in a continuous battle then that would fix at least my biggest complaint with it. There's no way in a cold hell we're not getting a Switch 2 port of TOTK, and they may as well go all in on additional DLC to justify double dipping.

[@chooongusbug724]

BotW Master Mode is easier than normal BotW and vanilla TotK lol. The game throws plus 30 attack up weapons at you lol. If you found the game challenging? Skill issue

[@SarahsSpareCorner]

I hope you go viral, you deserve it. Some thoughts if you are considering doing more videos like this. Obviously, some is pending on the time you have and money of course haha. You made a great thumbnail, you are working well with your script overall and keeping the audience entertained. For me, and it might be my speakers but the audio is a little grainy. It would also be interesting to see some video overlay from the actual game, like you playing the games you're talking about. To maintain interest in the topic on criticism, it would be satisfying to see some pictures of this criticisms as you're talking about them. All of this is nitpicky though, and I throughly enjoyed this video. Good job and good luck!

[@davismorgan99]

Thank you so much. The mic I use isn’t great and I should probably be buying a new one soon haha. As for the game footage, I actually just ordered a capture card so I can do this going forward. Thanks for your input!

[@SarahsSpareCorner]

@@davismorgan99 great can't wait to see what you come up with next! Are you planning on making more videos like this one?

[@davismorgan99]

@@SarahsSpareCorner I definitely want to do more Zelda stuff since it’s probably my favorite game series. I’ve actually started on a script comparing the first dungeons of each of the 3D Zelda games. My content is kind of all over the place though haha

[@SarahsSpareCorner]

@@davismorgan99 I feel that, I make varied types of videos myself. Just keep in mind if people subscribe to you because of certain video, at least for the next little bit, they want to see more similar videos like that one.

[@davismorgan99]

@@SarahsSpareCorner I have such a hard time sticking to a topic haha. I’ve got major ADHD and it makes me impulsively write my scripts when the idea comes instead of planning my content in advance.

[@Gabriel-Tár]

I just think that the internet is just a hatedom at this point. I would rename it the Hatenet.

[@UnvarnishedTarnished]

Not a true sequel, it's BOTW with DLC & Mods. Imagine if Majora's Mask was the same map as oot but slightly changed + having a few new things you can do?

[@ericsilva6787]

TOTK added an incredible amount of content, more content than a los of games have on their own. And it has a way more involved and interesting story than BOTW. It feels really shortsighted to me to call it a DLC just because it uses the same map and and engine

[@chooongusbug724]

BotW was a 60 dollar beta that needed a sequel to make it's empty world feel fleshed out 🤷‍♀️

[@jec15]

Hahahaha excellent, excellent points! Those saying it's flawed, saying it's bad, saying it's disappointing, saying it's unnecessary, saying it's worse than BOTW, saying it's scum, saying "Nah, it's unlovable," saying it ruins the lore, saying it's overrated, all out in social media - just like the attention and the likes I guess, or probably haven't tried game design, worse, are using one stepping stone to judge the next as a skipping stone and cancel it. Whatever happened to their gaming hearts? Much subjective criticism lowkey kills the hearts of men. Its contagious aspect is not a joke. "Not a Zelda game?" No one's even asking them to play it, hell even like it. Why do they get to pass judgement? Just because they played other Zelda games? Hyah. Nyah. HYAHHHGHH. (Link Hyahlian sounds intensify)

[@MindJunkPictures]

Botw and Totk are simple lazy products with pure mass except of class. The quality of the gamedesign suffers of pure repetition

[@sophitiaofhyrule]

Hum... People are allowed to criticize it if they want to. It doesn't mean they "don't have a heart". Are we not allowed to be disappointed if that's how we feel? I agree that some of the dogpiling is a bit excessive, but people not liking TotK doesn't say anything about them as a person. They just don't like a game that you like.

[@hihowareyou232]

​@@MindJunkPicturesif BotW and TotK are lazy products, so is Twilight Princess for being a carbon copy of OoT and ALBW is a lazy product due to it basically being a remake of ALttP with a wall painting mechanic

[@zachtwilightwindwaker596]

Zelda 2 is too damn hard to be enjoyable. Alttp is still harder than most Zelda games but it's not unreasonably difficult. Zoras and Gorons are in Wind Waker. There are the Goron merchants and Laruto. I'm glad you didn't call Fi Fee like so many people do. We see the Triforce in BOTW. Zelda apparently has it. Wait you forgot to mention the handheld Zelda games.

[@DrKillerLetsPlay]

Completelly agree, the ORIGINAL Zelda was born as an "Open World" in a time where counting Zelda there where like 3 of those, and if I remember corecttly only 2 where worth to mention, every Zelda that came after that was the realization of this "Open World" thing was way to hard to pull with the "current" technology, so several years passed and in 2017 we finally got a REAL Zelda Game XD (also Kidding, if Ao Numa and Nintendo decides that the next game in the series is gonna be a Zelda Horror game well guess what, that is a Zelda game because they freaking make it and they are the ones to say if it is or not a freaking Zelda game, not a bunch of NERDs on the internet XD)

[@Luxembourgish]

It's not that Zelda can't change by adding new things, it's that it needs to keep constant staples to stay in order to be Zelda. I'd say staples such as tunics, tights, swords, shields, magic, enchanted forests, mythical creatures, and a medieval or medieval-adjacent atmosphere. If Zelda has no identity, why can't the next Zelda be drugdealer Link selling prostitutes in Liberty City?

[@davismorgan99]

Yeah but the new games have all of those things and they are still considered “not real Zelda games” by a lot of people.

[@FlorianCorby]

I've been playing TLoZ series ever since I am 5 and I didn't like neither BOTW nor TOTK. The new formula means the end of the series for me. In my opinion they aren't bad zelda games. They are plain and simply boring games. Everything feels copy-pasted and repeated (enemy variety, bosses, temples' challenges, rewards, etc.). It killed the exploration for me. The enemies are bullet sponges. The small puzzles don't leave enough room for intertwined riddles like dungeons used to do. You spend way too much time in the inventory or in your quick access bar. Most innovations were borrowed from other games and didn't feel fresh if you played other series (far cry towers, skyrim open world issues, fortnite small crafting system, etc.). Please stop saying that the people who disliked BOTW and TOTK are obnoxious or unable to see the greatness of your beloved game. We're just not looking for the same experience from a video game. Maybe you like sandboxes with some walking simulator and adventure twists. I want good puzzles and interesting enemies/combats. Today I am playing Dark Souls for the interesting fights and games like Outer Wilds, Kerbal Space Program or the old Zelda games for the puzzles. BOTW and TOTK graphics were nice though.

[@FlorianCorby]

I want to complete my first message with something else. I am also disappointed with the new formula because I feel like it unnecessarily removed elements from the old formula that we loved. I was also waiting for a more open world zelda and less on rail as Skyward Sword was. But I didn't understand what prevented them from adding local dungeons? For each region in Breath of Wild they could have added an optional dungeon with an associated side quest that would tell how life went on after the catastrophe. Or we could have found Link's memories in these dungeons. Just a missed opportunity to add more stories...

[@davismorgan99]

Sorry you feel that way about the series. I also started playing them when I was about 5 and was really disappointed with Skyward Sword. I replayed every 3D game in preparation for TOTK and concluded that BOTW was my favorite Zelda game. Then TOTK came out and blew it out of the water. I think for me, a big issue that I have when going to replay a Zelda game is having to play through the intros. It makes going back to Twilight Princess and Skyward Sword unbearable for me. I never meant to say that critiquing the new games is a bad thing, only that saying they aren’t “real Zelda games” isn’t valid criticism when the series has been changing since it stated.

[@lonecom685]

I won't waste my time arguing with you and how exaggerated you sound, but I find it very interesting how you called him out for supposedly saying that people who complain about Breath of the Wild are "obnoxious" and right after that you pretty much did the same, dismissing the people who liked it by saying they like a "walking simulation" (what a bad take btw). Yes, people like different things. I agree with you. But not only what you like is good. You're coming across as really biased.

[@FlorianCorby]

@@davismorgan99 I apologize for the critiquing part of my comment. I was targeting other people from the comment section. I should have clarified this point. Anyway your video is good. You explain your points very well and I enjoyed watching it.

[@FlorianCorby]

@@lonecom685 I didn't know that the walking simulators category was an insult. I literally understood that after years of trying to understand what BOTW fans loved so much through hundreds of comments. People like the landscapes, they like the atmosphere, they like the meditative and quiet experience. When they talk about the monsters they don't talk about their lack of variety, they talk about how creatively they beat them. So I concluded with this take : adventure sandbox with a walking simulator twist. I honestly don't like this genre. But you can't say that this is exaggerated. On the enemies, removing the ice/fire/electric and difficulty variations there are about 16 unique enemies in BOTW. This number slightly went up with TOTK I think it's about 25 unique enemies. This is still way less than OoT which has roughly 40 unique enemies. Furthermore, in older Zelda games these enemies were also unique to their environment. Deku scrubs in marshes, dodongos (I don't know their name in English) on death mountain, skeletons at night, etc. I could go on with my other points but I need to go. If you want to argue I would love to see your points instead of another angry reply. Peace to you !

[@sophitiaofhyrule]

I was disappointed with TotK for story and writing reasons (NPCs not remembering Link, no one being suspicious of the clearly evil fake Zelda, how Ganondorf can see the secret stones when he's so far away in the Modulga memory, Sonia's death being downright pathetic, the NPCs being much more lifeless than they were in BotW (Sidon and Riju no longer have routines, they'll just sit here and tell you they're ready to fight the demon king)). While TotK had more stuff and was more fun to play, the world and it's characters didn't feel real like they did in BotW. Also as someone who spent A LOT of time thinking about BotW's story I feel like whoever wrote for TotK just straight up forgot what happened in that game. It doesn't feel like a sequel at all. Everything looks like the same yet they want to ignore the previous game. That being said I will NEVER call TotK a "fake Zelda game". Arguing what is and isn't a "real" Zelda game is pointless and I hate gatekeeping in most of it's forms. It's just needlessly harmful. Even worse are people accusing BotW and TotK fans of being "fake Zelda fans". This kind of behavior has to stop, we don't need to make the internet even more toxic than it already is.

[@abbeyfuad3028]

You should watch a video from solidarf about the totk npcs, maybe it'll help with you feeling the world wasn't as alive. It's 6 months old. To be fair of the evil Zelda thing, everyone felt something was off but since they never got to ask and they had all the faith in the world it was fair to listen to her. Paya noted how Zelda didn't feel like herself. Him seeing the secret stone was just game stuff and he might have seen the glowing rock on his wrist after blowing up molduga. Sonia's death was the result of Rauru's arrogance toward Ganondorf and how he didn't keep a closer eye on him. Smilies peace and blessings.

[@Rizzinfallen1VODs]

can we stop telling the CREATORS of things... that THEIR game or story or movie.. is not really true to itself? internet has let people go too far...

[@Luxembourgish]

The CREATORS, Shigeru Miyamoto and Takashi Tezuka, no longer work on the Zelda series games.

[@randysalsman6992]

The new Zelda games suck, they don't feel like what all Zelda games (mostly) before these felt like to play. This was very disapointing to me because "The Legend of Zelda" is my favorite game series of all time just before the "Final Fantasy" game series. I also hate the newer games in the "Final Fantasy" series besides "Final Fantasy VII" remake 1&2, they're so good, only made better if they were made turn-based.

[@davismorgan99]

I mean that’s just your opinion. A lot of people think they newer games are better than the old ones. There are also a lot of people who wished the series stayed top-down instead of 3D and think Ocarina of Time killed the franchise

[@King_Luigi]

@@davismorgan99 A lot of people also never played the older games, and started with BotW. At least back then there were still handheld games that had a top-down view and/or were 2D. Ever since BotW and the Switch came around we've never had a new _original_ Zelda game in those styles. Last time that happened was almost 11 years ago (9 if you wanna be generous). Some people also think the newer games are "better" simply based on the fact that they are "open world". Going so far as to say that "linearity is _outdated game design"_ (actual comment I saw on 1 of these videos). People have this bizarre _obsession_ with things being "open world" this past decade that continues to baffle me.

[@Bojangles657]

​@@King_LuigiThe old Zeldas were nothing more than, "collect 3 mythical items, pick up Master Sword, do a few more dungeons, fight Ganon" in a set order with no deviation. Zelda got stale because of that but if you like having your handheld by an imp or an auto tuned robot, do you

[@hihowareyou232]

What even is this take?

[@King_Luigi]

@@Bojangles657 You have no idea what you're talking about. You can count on 1 hand the amount of games that followed that specific set of events.

[@Zacian2.0]

Is it just me or did BotW end up having the same effect on gaming that OoT had. Also. RPG elements, open world, unique targeting combat... was I talking about BotW or OoT just there?

[@rockowlgamer631]

It is a terrible Sequel, the story is repeated closely from OoT, the overworld was barely changed enough to FEEL different from BotW, the sky islands are copy pasted with little variety, the depths is one big biome with only the lava area where the fire temple resides, barely any new enemies, while the bosses were now new the dungeons were just divine beasts since you had to go active five switches still. This game is over glorified DLC.

[@davismorgan99]

I too remember in OOT when Zelda and Ganon turned into dragons.

[@GamesareJoy]

What funny is skyward sword was my favorite zelda because the story it tells is my favorite- I get people not liking the motion but i loved it and others not liking it didnt hamper my own enjoyment, I am guilty of buying the hd remake and I was SO SAD on Wii U when we got WW and TP HD and not SSHD But TOTK is my favorite GAME of all time. My favorite game ive ever *Played* Wind waker was my favorite before that and Majaoras Mask before that. I never enjoyed TPs unique mechanics but It's absolutley a zelda game... Yeah I have seen people acting lile the world is over because BOTW and TOTK are different. And all I do is remember that the internet likes to polarize the negative, and refrain from the positive. 🤷‍♀️

[@davismorgan99]

Yeah the Zelda community especially focuses on the negative. It happens with every game. I actually like Skyward Sword and enjoyed the HD remake, but TOTK is just on a completely different level. Thanks for sharing!

[@austinwilson5341]

Echoes of wisdom has me very hype. Totk was Good but its just botw with Better gameplay so i feel like there is almost no point to ever playing botw again

[@davismorgan99]

Yeah my biggest issue with TOTK is how it kind of invalidates BOTW. I’m super hyped for EoW as well.

[@Giggles_iJest]

TotK's story is bad, Fs with pre-established key lore aspects, absolutely shatters all the Master Sword's reputation, unga bunga buff Dorf with little to no ambition other than "me strongest there is" uninteresting, nearly everyone forgot who you were despite this game taking place a mere 4-6 years after Wild, Rauru existing is an insult, no Fi, no breaking of the Demise curse despite it being falsely hinted being the case what with all the Skyward Sword PR this game got (I distinctly remember Skyward Sword being advertised as heavily linked to TotK somehow which, again, is misleading as on Nintendo's part), no dog petting, no hookshot spiderman swinging with the physics being suuuuch a driving factor in these newer Zelda games, no underwater exploration instead a damp dark smelly overgrown cave can't see jack, COLLOSAL missed opportunity to hitch the princess with her handsome knight in shining armor, no stakes since Zelda's sacrifice was reversed giving the story little to no agency or consequence, Link as a protagonist felt nonexistent feels like everyone else was the star of the show not the guy who's saving all their 🫏s, no Link backstory before any of this went down aka no Arryl 2 or Granny 2 aka NOT WIND WAKER, didn't make me cry like Twilight Princess, dungeons are STILL NOT dungeons (pulling a couple levers to open a door and then be treated with literally the same copy-paste cutscene at the very end with each champion? Yeah naw), sky islands hardly anything worth noting although they are pretty asf to look at, I was expecting a totally NEW revamped endgame super Saiyan master sword golden tier 4 legendary new hilt new everything but naw same design with a booboo scar and hilariously less powerful... hoverbike autobuild pales in comparison to THE Master Cycle As a game, sure, it's leagues above BotW but BotW will never be topped as a one-in-a-lifetime *experience* TotK was an overblown $70 DLC and I'm tired of pretending it's not. Mid.

[@davismorgan99]

This sounds like you spent a long time watching theories about what TOTK would be and then we’re upset when it wasn’t what you wanted. The game was never “closely tied to skyward sword”. You just made that up.

[@Giggles_iJest]

@@davismorgan99 I've been following the games' stories for well over two decades. If anything, I had my *own* expectations for TOTK and was disappointed with the result which was a radical, furry(zonai)-infused change to the pre-established lore. It's a if-it-ain't-broke situation, and TOTK fixed jack s%&t. As for Skyward Sword, I swear to you I distinctly remember NIntendo had some PR stunt for TOTK, releasing a trailer of sorts depicting SS's connection to TOTK, hinting at a conclusion to the Demise's curse ordeal, which as we all know wasn't even remotely touched upon in TOTK. If you really wanna press this, I'll gladly sit down and look for it.

[@captainwo]

Dungeons and permanent power-ups that you use to traverse them It's not hard

[@davismorgan99]

Working on a new video right now about how the games can reconcile traditional dungeons with the open air style of the new games. I think the swing out to total freedom was necessary, but it could stand to swing back.

[@captainwo]

@@davismorgan99 I'd be all for it. I'm pretty confident most of the "not a real zelda game" comes from not feeling that sense of progression associated to the series. It definitely is for me and it's definitely what makes a "zelda-like" to me

[@billylin8800]

i'm certain BOTW (haven't played tears) could've felt significantly more tradtionally zelda if it had just held off on giving you the four plateau runes immediately, start the game exactly the same only the four shrines are just bog-standard puzzles, you leave the plateau with your new heart/stamina container and paraglider and then put one of the four major runes in each of the four divine beasts, you walk into vah ruta and you get the map and cryonis at the first terminal and it functionally serves as your dungeon item for the elephant and feels like an actual power-up that improves your arsenal.

[@brandoncasas9261]

lol loved that ending... can't wait for the new not a real Zelda game!

[@Guts-blood]

The game is good but is not a master piece that basically it. I don't want another open world Zelda it's just so tiresome. They should limit the scope of the game if they make another open world game. Tears of the kingdom felt grindy and like you were working it was not rewarding.

[@somaricraftbros6283]

Because it's a link game

[@Truvix-zx4pw]

It's funny that this is actually correct now

[@PopPunkApologist]

MOBO forever. Also Zelda forever

[@davismorgan99]

MOBO MOBO MOBO

[@pastor8647]

"Ocarina of Time is a masterpiece".. do you want people to take you seriously? Like most things, it's a product of its time, and nostalgia. Compared to something like Bloodborne, it falls WAY too short nowadays. I wouldn't call a game that introduce a terrible combat system that consists solely on WAITING.. perfect, either. Nor does it introduce anything special that wasn't used before it (the Ocarina songs, maybe). A Link to the Past already had the idea of the "two worlds" interaction system for exploration.. Ocarina just made a different implementation of it. And the same goes for almost anything in it that is not directly affected by technology. I'm sorry, I find all your franchise comparisons to the first to be too childish to take seriously. Saying "Zelda is about 2D games" or a lack of "story" and so on is just you being ret*rded, obtuse and pedantic for no reason. Anyone with a brain knows that BotW deviated TOO MUCH from the formula. Acknowledged in TotK with "better dungeons", which were such a monumental failure that puts into question their capacity to discern what is actually good or not! And to take their comments of BotW being the closest to what they wanted it to be at face value.. really? Miyamoto has made TERRIBLE choices throughout the years (the latest Star Fox, anyone?) but he is a saint and a genius no matter what! Aonuma is an idiot, and he wasn't even involved in the release of the first Zelda anyway.. Also, it's not like theu haven't aged, lost bits of themselves throughout the years, nor had changes in their opinions or perceptions with new technological advancements and capabilities that weren't there before and are only available now! As soon as real 3D technology is accessible, you'll hear the same dumb song and dance then.. Breath of the Wild IS a good game. It is just NOT a good Zelda. Anyone with a smidge of decency and self respect would admit that it simply has the franchise IP slapped onto it for it to sell more. It's hilarious how much it tries to resemble other popular products on the market. And it is not secret that Nintendo of late only wants to make dumbed-down products to appeal to the masses for profit. ... Why do these younglings with no opinions think they have something useful to say every time they open their mouths, and even disgrace the internet by uploading "content" with garbage audio quality of their nonsense?

[@davismorgan99]

Sorry I offended you. Maybe try watching a video where you won’t get your feelings hurt? Thanks for literally proving my point and completely misunderstanding the video. Maybe before you comment next time you should check to make sure you don’t sound exactly like the imitation of the idiot gamer that I was doing.

[@jamespuso1627]

I agree with some of what you say but like...why compare Ocarina of Time to Bloodbourne? I guess in a broad sense Soulslikes are dungeon crawlers but they're a drastically different kind of dungeon crawler from OoT. Dungeons in OoT are about puzzle solving primarily, dungeons in Souls games are about fighting your way through them. Very different things. That's almost like trying to compare Devil May Cry and Bloodbourne because they're both hack and slash, still doesn't make a whole lot of sense to compare them because they're just too different in their approach. When you compare OoT to other 3D puzzle based dungeon crawlers it's still one of the best out there. Maybe that's partly because there aren't really any of them being made now and the only games Zelda ever really shared the pond with I know of were OG God of War and Darksiders and I don't think either ever really did it better than OoT. Twilight Princess did for sure but that was the only 3D Zelda game that undisputedly did really.

[@chooongusbug724]

​@@davismorgan99how did OP not realize you were being sarcastic? That's wild lol. Good video, you hit the nail on the head

[@cole_man.exe_2002]

Zelda fans suck.

[@hihowareyou232]

Ain't this the truth though?

[@BeatButler]

boo booooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

[@davismorgan99]

@@BeatButler spookiest comment I ever read

[@brittneyrussell8158]

Don't use clickbait titles

[@davismorgan99]

@@brittneyrussell8158 the entirety of this video is me discussing the “not a real Zelda game” argument. I use that phrase like 30 times. I don’t know how that makes the title clickbait.

[@SD-Reunion]

The title is in quotes for a reason.