Not Doing This Again

[@vinofarm]

I have heard the suggestion to open feed 100 yards, 200 yards 100 feet, etc. away from the bee yard to prevent robbing. I get it. However, that was not the issue. The problem I had was the feeders were not flowing. The buckets seemed to be working as planned when I tipped them over. The syrup seeped out, filled each little reservoir and stopped just below the rim. No drips, no leaks. The bees started feeding, emptied each reservoir and nothing else was coming out after that initial fill up. It appeared that the bees crowded the little channels and prevented the syrup from flowing out of the holes. The fighting was centered around the buckets. Lack of flow from the buckets seemed to cause traffic jams and bee frustration. That's why I switched to the tub feeders the second day. The bees were not fighting in the tubs, but they were getting sticky and having a hard time flying back to their hives. I understand that the old timer wisdom is to open feed a great distance from the yard, but I have recently watched multiple respected beekeepers on youtube open feeding their bees right next to their hives. One even suggesting to keep open buckets INSIDE the electric fence to prevent bear encounters. (This is one reason I did it this way.) The proximity of my feeders to the hives is not what was causing them not to flow. I guess I just tried to feed too thick syrup on a too cool day. Again... lessons learned.

[@privatebubba8876]

Put aquarium gravel into the bucket trough so the bees can't get into the troughs.

[@vinofarm]

Interesting. Is that a thing?

[@krispapas9834]

That's weird with home Depot buckets mine goes down.

[@krispapas9834]

I open feed in fall exclusively. I use 1/16th bit and buckets with the diamond shaped channels.

[@pmac5621]

Had the exact same experience as you did with the dead bees. October is so tricky to feed or not to feed! Ugh

[@normjacques6853]

An honest attempt to do something beneficial, implemented with the best of intentions...and a lesson learned. Sad to have lost some bees. Unfortunately, sometimes that's the cost of knowledge. I appreciate your honesty, and sharing failure along with success. You've saved many of us the personal experience, Jim. Thank you.

[@julieenslow5915]

Norm Jacques Very well said, and totally on point.

[@drrota]

Hats off to him - he should start a learning channel.

[@julieenslow5915]

He did. Its called Vino Farm.

[@Gord1812]

Thank you for doing these videos. And thank you for using both Fahrenheit and Celsius. A lot of people forget we in the north all don't understand both Fahrenheit and Celsius. I was in school when Canada switched to metric so I get both, but not all Canadians know Fahrenheit.

[@benjaminkoplan3228]

Certain feeders make more or less sense depending on the season. In Spring/Summer, the bees are all super busy and there's lots of native nectar, so raiding is very low. In Fall to Winter the opposite is true (no native nectar = lots of competition/raiding). I've tried everything from internal feeders, to boardman feeders, to top feeders. Here's my assessment/experience: The internal feeders (one gallon/single frame) seem to work best (lowest bee mortality) because they have built in ladders and there's no competition with rival hives, but it takes the place of a frame (that's a ten percent frame reduction the deep). I also don't like the fact that I have to crack open the hive right above the deep to get to the top of the feeder to refill. In Spring/Summer, the boardman feeders are a quick option and easy to refill, you can also see how much syrup remains in the jar. They are especially helpful with Nucs as there's no feeder/frame displacement, so you are able to use max capacity of frames within the Nuc. That said, boardman feeders are not at all well suited in Fall/Winter as they invite massive raiding, and being smaller colonies, certainly NOT a good idea to use Boardmans with Nucs in the Fall/Winter. Overall, I believe I prefer the internal top feeders. Because they are only accessible from within the hive, they prevent external raiding. You can access them from the top and therefore no disruption by getting into the hive. They can accommodate up to three gallons of syrup (but be careful you don't overfeed and make the hive honey-bound). And with each colony having its own feeder, you can match the amount of syrup as based on that particular colony's needs. In warmer climates the syrup can crystalize, and there is a bit more maintenance and care. As we get into winter, I take them off and move to dry feed (fondant and/or candy boards). Enjoy the vids, Jim, you're the best! --Ben

[@Digger927]

You did several things wrong Jim. 1. If you're going to try to feed in cool weather, hive top feeders are the best way to deliver the feed to the colony. It stays warm longer and they have the shortest distance to travel possible. It's in the top of their hive... 2. If you want to open feed, do it earlier in the season in warmer weather and do it further away from the apiary. 3. You had flow problems due to cold, thick syrup. That bucket design works fine in warmer weather and they only need very small holes in them. You may have also mixed the syrup too thick but it looked like a cool air problem to me. 4. If bees are over crowding too bad you need more feeders. 5. Liquid feed should really be done by the time it gets that cold. The water content gets hard for them to evaporate and cure down this late in sub 50/30F temps. If you don't want to mess with buckets and extra boxes as covers, there are nice hive top feeders at Kelleys that are short and drown proof. They are hard to beat.

[@vinofarm]

Like I've typed a dozen times in the comments (!), this was a last ditch effort (experiment) to inject as much syrup into the hives as fast as possible in a 48 hour window of temps in the 50s. I knew temps would plummet after these two days, so I gave it all I had. I have been feeding for the past month with my internal pail feeders that work perfectly. I love them. I chose to take them OFF that weekend so the bees could have full ventilation for two warm days. (The pails block that inner cover hole.) So I knew I wanted them to be able to ventilate and I kept reading and hearing that open feeding was a fast, efficient way to quickly stuff the hives. So I gave it a shot. Looking back, It would have been better to just leave my pail feeders on and top them off and let them suck it down that way for those last two days. I learned my lesson. Maybe I'll try again in warmer weather. For now, we're dropping into the 20s at night this week. No more liquid food this year. Hives have dry sugar on and are wrapped. I'll check in on a warm day in November to see the stores and drop in some holiday fondant treats.

[@Digger927]

@@vinofarm Lol, yeah I have not read all of the comments or your responses to them but I had seen your pinned comment. You didn't need to reiterate it again here, you don't need to defend your actions to me or anyone else, I was just giving you my thoughts on the problems you had in the video. You're right, open feeding can give a quick flow resource to the bees and there's nothing wrong with that...just avoid doing it in cold weather. ;) Hope they do well over the coming months and you have a big start early next season. Cheers.

[@stephersays]

Well, that's a bummer. Thanks for sharing your experience to help the rest of us learn. It's much appreciated.

[@michellestephens9635]

I'm late and haven't watched newer videos yet but we inadvertently found something that feeds in our front yard while trying to make a hummingbird feeder. We used a sugar syrup in a big Skye bottle that we had attached a cleaned plastic seasoning jar to the neck. We left the lid on a d had drilled small holes in it. While it was hanging in our tree we had more bees than we did anything else.

[@mikegoodwin5584]

the open feeding may work well for you with a few small adjustments. I had good success this month... fed 28 4gal buckets to 16 hives in 8 days. Basically doing an open feed with straw a sticks. A few critical things I've found over the years. Maintain a good distance from the hives placing feeders at least 200 feet or so out. Keep the straw loose and airry in the feeder. Tight clumps prevent access and trap bees. Place a few sticks from the bottom of each bucket to the top at an angle. The bees will walk up these and prepare for flight. These few things made a huge difference for me. I tried the drilled buckets as well, but found them too slow as well. I enjoy your videos, and appreciate the time work involved. Thanks! Best of luck through the winter

[@vinofarm]

Thanks for the helpful tips!

[@natserog]

you are a great teacher....cant wait to see you in 10 years after working bees. Keep up the great work! your videos are top notch

[@drrota]

One of your commenters (William Smith) had a good point that might help - he talked about bees drinking from drawn fames. If you had a bunch of drawn frames and laid them flat - you could pour a few gallons into them, The bees would be able to cope with pulling syrup oou of frames. Though it would be just as much a PITA to lay out all the frames and fill them. - Better to do in-hive feeding. - and dry feeding now with the cold weather. I've even heard that TBH beekeepers press fondant into empty drawn frames to fill a partially empty hive. options, options.

[@hyfy-tr2jy]

Just talked about open feeding at our local bee club meeting tonight. 100 yards was what all the old timers said was the minimum distance they felt safe open feeding from the closest hive.

[@vinofarm]

I've seen pros with drums of syrup 20' away from bee yards. I doubt there was too much damage done here. In my case, I had a 48 hour window of suitable weather and the thought of making each bee travel 100 yards each way for a mouthful of syrup seemed mean. I wanted them to turbo feed. This was supposed to be an IV injection, not a leisurely forage.

[@PRINCESSDREAMYLYN]

What do the Old timers know? why would anyone listen to them? After All they haven't kept up with the new kids on the block. Sickens me that someone will make a mistake and instead of owning up to it makes every excuse in the book and demands his way was the right way even after it failed. Not worth the excuses with that many bee's dead.

[@vinofarm]

Sorry to sicken you. Did you actually watch the video? I'm not making excuses. I understand that placing feed a great distance from the hives would reduce robbing. However, that was not the issue. The proximity to the hives was not the problem. The feeders were not flowing. If I had placed the same feeders 100 yards from the hive, the bees would have had the same problem... They would have piled up at the feeder, not gotten any syrup and begun fighting. Placing the feeders 100 yards away would not have made them flow better. I have received dozens of comments from people on this video saying the same thing. They hear "Open feeding. Fighting bees." and they immediately jump to the standard line: "Feeders must be 100 yards away form the hives to prevent robbing." and hardly anyone here has addressed the actual issue I had in the video: My feeders were not working. I admitted in the video that I messed it up. I said it was my error. No excuses. I was looking for feedback on THAT problem. I had tubs of open syrup with straw sitting right next to the bucket feeders, 5 feet from the hives. There was no fighting in the tubs. The fighting was on the non-flowing buckets. If you have an opinion on that issue, I'd love to hear about it.

[@susanmitchell1117]

I also tried open feeding with a bucket and straw, but couldn't stand the number of dead bees. Now I just do 7kg pails on top of the hive. When it gets too cold, I use the mountain camp method to feed and absorb moisture when they're all wrapped up in the winter.

[@cornbreadbees5385]

The bucket feeder doesn't flow through the holes once it air locks the bees pull the syrup through the holes. It took 5 hives about a week to take a whole bucket down. Thanks for the video

[@mikeb062]

I tried open feeding earlier this spring, I put out a work table and set a miller top hive feeder with floaters on about 25 feet away from both my hives, this seemed to work well for me.

[@philjanikjr9805]

I'm a firm believer in 5 gallon bucket feeding. I drill an 1/8 hole in EVERY resevor not the handle slots, 2/1 not an issue. I also advise gently flipping those buckets, one day that lid will come off. I use this rule of thumb for us in rural setting and no neighboring issues, feed out of site of the hives. Don't give up on it, try it again, it is another learning experience. Good luck! HBM

[@timk571]

Begin sooner with the feeding. By now ( looking at your tempratures) the hive have to be ready for winter. 14 degrees is for me a temperature that bees will maybe fly. You getting them out of the hive with 13 degrees. To cold for them when they have to go in cold syrup and fly back. You should have started 3 weeks early and you should be done till February. Love the mistakes and lessons you give us. :p the comment is not an attack just the way I do it.

[@timk571]

The only open feeding that i do is let them clean the honey frames after honeyharvest.. The rest just inside of the hive so you have a good overview from whats going on in the hive.

[@vinofarm]

I've been feeding heavily for a month. But when I looked into most of the hives, they were still light. This was a last attempt to fill them up.

[@timk571]

Ok. Thats dissapointing.

[@johnn1a2]

This yr I did open feeding with totes like your big open feeder. But I put Wooden slats in about 2" wide enough slats so you about about half inch between each. Very little straw on top just enough so boards stay apart. Also I put holes in side of tote and have lid on. Very few casualties.

[@dareth7527]

In UK we have feeders you sit on hive but have a lid on top you can remove and see bees feeding and top up without removing feeder. Much easier and avoids all the problems you are having

[@stevehappe8583]

Sorry to see this happen. I've seen people do this with success though. I don't know what makes it work for some, but not others. It's frustrating. And I can understand why you tried this. It must be a real pain in the neck to supply each hive individually. Looking at your yard now and seeing how it has really grown, I must congratulate you. You have done well. Thanks again for sharing all of your efforts with us.

[@thecolburnfarm7613]

I'm in NH and its been cold here also but I bought some of barnyard bees top feeders and love them, the only thing is that the bees have got under the cap inside and then bees are where they are not suppose to be, because of that I had to pull one till they got back in the hive and dropped the clear cap and got 20 acres and my dad ran it over with the back hoe, so I hade to build one out of a can, ya it works, but they only hold a half gallon and the bees been drinking that in a day, I may try a gallon pail in each hive, but I only have 4 hives, great video thanks for sharing

[@kevimc]

I am no fan of open feeding; yet to find a way of o/f that does not kill piles of bees and you end up feeding yellow jackets and bald faced wasps; what a mess; I go through the work of feeding each hive and know that the bees in that hive have received the proper amount of syrup they need for winter; thanks for sharing; been there done that and experienced your heartache

[@CuriousCreature]

Had my own fail with a big tank top feeder (nothing wrong with it) but left the top ajar slightly by mistake. Created a robbing problem that was solved by moving the tank away and open feeding to draw them away and reducing the entrance dramatically. My open feeding has now been moved to 100 yards away which makes a big difference. Now I do 1 gallon buckets on top as well as topping off with open feeding. That's the system Ian (a Canadian Beekeepers Blog-1500 hives) uses. I have read that Michael Palmer uses paint cans on top of the hives as his system. Feeding is an art. I'm finding that hives are different in what they like. We're all finding our way here. I appreciate you keeping it real Jim. It's hard sometimes.

[@TheSoilandGreen]

I’ve been putting fondant in my hives, you can make pollen patty taffy for them. Half fondant half pollen.

[@johnn1a2]

OH I also used totes that I could put 2" holes down each side about 5 a side. Put lid on went one step further put cover on lid as not all rain falls straight down. About 1 tote every 10 hives, but if you upped the ratio there would be less crowding and fighting and thus less drowning. Plus when they consume syrup don't just add syrup in tote , there will be many bees under straw and they will drown. Empty all straw shake bees out refill and add wooden slats and minute amount of straw.

[@WisconsinPrepper_H2O]

I tried feeding this fall because my hives had no decent honey stores to make it through the winter...did the internal one gallon ones but that was a pain and triggered robbing....in the future I would try a square bucket like you had, but was thinking of using big car wash sponges tucked in. No one can drown and not as messy as straw, maybe?

[@simoprdev3517]

Sir! you are my favorite KZbin personality ! You have a good heart.

[@vinofarm]

New favorite commenter right here!

[@andrewc7369]

Thanks for showing the failures and successes. I like ian from Canadian bee keepers blog pail feeders. Sit ontop of the lid, small plugable hole for access. Quick and easy to fill without disturbing bees. Best regards

[@vinofarm]

Yes, I use pail feeders exclusively. But I stated in the video that I took them off so there would be plenty of ventilation at the top of the hives that weekend to evaporate all the syrup I've been feeding this month. The open feed was to give them whatever they could take before the frost arrived. I needed the hives to be well vented on the last semi-warm days of the season and the pail feeders block that ventilation.

[@chucknSC]

I use a modified chicken waterer. Put fine screen on the syrup channel to keep anything out of the jug. Put quarter inch screen donut in the trough to give em something to climb on. I use 2 pounds of sugar per gallon of water. Not two to one, too sticky.

[@anthonyappleyard5688]

Bees are designed to suck sugary liquid from small nectaries. Houseflies are more careful when sucking from large open liquid.

[@mikeries8549]

This winter is coming on quickly. AC one day furnace the next. It was 86 and then dropped by 30 degrees on the highs and lows over night. Do not forget about using shims and zip lock freezer bags. Gallon size. You can put two bags on a hive, slice the tops, and the syrup is gone in two maybe three days tops. Bore hole in shim for vent and leave them all winter. In spring put pollen patties on and wait for them to make burr comb in shim. That's your signal to super up.

[@vinofarm]

We have nights in the 20s this week. They've totally stopped taking liquid feed. October was kind of a bummer this year. No foliage, rain, wind, zero forage... Felt more like November.

[@xistsixt]

Finally! I thought too that open feeding leads to several problems. First the fighting seen very nicely in the video. Fighting stresses those tiny bodies very strong and life expectation is decreasing. Even from the surviving population. Second attacks from wasps... Same issue. Then third: other hives will find the sugar too. Infection risks of different diseases are growing imo. Then the other problems you clearly show. I find it best to use the plastic top feeders wich are made in the same size as the hives. Just put them between the roof and the uppest box. They are hygienic, fast installed, safe from robbing, drowning safe, fast refilled and controllable, no contaminants from other hives and dirty materials like straw and last but not least only the young hive bees are busy transporting it in the comb. Leaving the collecting bees the time to do their own job. 😉 Greetings from Switzerland 🇨🇭

[@stormingalaska3110]

Hey Jim, I raise bees (2nd year beekeeper) & chickens here in Alaska. I decided to convert my 1 gallon chicken waters into open bee feeders (the kind you screw on and flip over). To prevent the bees from going up into the container holding the syrup, I hot glued screen door material over the entrance, folded the extra tab over the edge then screwed the container on, flipped it over, added rocks to the tray and gave it a gentle squeeze to load it up. This was my first time doing this with great success. I could not believe how fast the bees sucked down the 2 to 1 syrup, about 2 gallons a day between 2 hives. I also fed near my hives for the same reasons you mentions on another comment and did not have any robbing issues. Very easy clean up! I started feeding right after I pulled the honey supers (Aug 10thish in AK) for 2-4 weeks, this allows for the syrup to cure proper. Last hive check a week ago confirmed it’s all capped. Now I have my winter feeding boxes on with fondant (thanks to you again) and dry pollen sub on top, a little bee cake :) By the way, I appreciate your channel and the honest presentation of your bee journey, just got my queen marking supplies from amazon thanks to you.

[@vinofarm]

Sounds great! I've been feeding for a month. This was a last effort to get them whatever syrup they could grab and store. I probably would have had better results if the temperature had been a little higher.

[@stormingalaska3110]

I hear what you’re saying, if only the weather cooperated more. I totally understand the temperature struggles, taking advantage of every good day possible. Sometimes it pays off and sometimes it’s a flop, but it’s always a learning experience.

[@rahn45]

Sounds like you could design like a feeder kinda box that you could easily refill to give them syrup but without the hassle of taking the tops off each hive.

[@j.d.8075]

Beekeeping is a never-ending learning experience. Not all the experiences shall be good but you shall still learn from them.

[@danielowens1513]

I use a chicken waterer to outside feed. I put a screen in front of the outlet hole and put rocks in the dish for the bees to land on. My one hive empties 5 quarts in about a day.

[@RobertSchwartzLive]

My 2 cents - First you get credit for trying this method but never had a good result. SOOO I mason jar their feedings lets me know if they need it by how fast they take it in - in each hive. Also stops (or at least slows Varroa spread. - ya never lose a bee to mason hive feeding - I use try sugar. (or fondant) - - Also use 1 to 1. sugar let work for them to get rid of excess water. Awesome work - Mason jars are easiest for me.. (aslo the cluster keeps the sugar warm) One FINAL thing I use burlap bags (small ones) to put in the empty top box for water absorption... ( I fill them wtih pine chips as to keep the top well insulated but not a mess of chips..

[@TheSoilandGreen]

I fill a 5 gallon bucket up then put straw in, just make sure there is no puddles or open areas. Not much loss at the end of the day. Just do 1-1 or even just water. They are thirsty

[@rustyshackleford5762]

Open feeding sucks in my experience, and having seen others do it. It causes a ruckus. Bees fight, and rough each other up. This leads to reduced longevity of the bees involved. Their hair gets knocked off. The last thing you want in the fall is for the crucial winter bees to injure each other. I agree with your assessment.

[@davidw4346]

Drill 3/32 holes one hole per section.I mix 16 lbs of sugar to 1 1/2 gals of hot water, flows good out of the holes. Make sure your buckets are level.

[@aakesson1]

I use top feeders. With my boxes I can pour all the syrup in at once and leave it for a week. I use 60% sugar syrup...

[@vinofarm]

Yes, I use pail feeders normally. I explain why I didn't use them in this situation. That would have been a better solution.

[@hootervillehoneybees8664]

Top feed with bucket feeders... drill a hole thru the top cover so the sun warms the feed and the cluster heats the feeder from the bottom.... put out some dry ultra bee they take better than syrup

[@ZopcsakFeri]

Similarly to Norway, open feeding is also prohibited in Hungary, as it's a very good method to spread disease, including AM/EU foulbrood, and Varroa mites... Nevertheless, I loved your analysis - and insightful video!

[@theantithesis1]

Is it possible to use your usual system of inverted buckets with the mesh hole on a 5 gallon bucket as an open feeding option?

[@shadwells460]

I like the 2 gallon frame feeder. I put wood shims at top of ladder to make sure the ladder does not allow bees to get into main reservoir. Very minimal bee kills. Not that hard to just pour syrup into them when needed. WITHOUT WOOD SHIM AT TOP OF BOTH LADDERS = Significant bees in reservoir.

[@claire2430]

Shad Wells yes, I’ve had the same experience. I haven’t used them since but was thinking of leaving the lids off, taking the ladders out and just adding some floating material.

[@mtnmyke]

What a mess! And a lot of work! The only way I can feed during our dearth (right now) is to open feed. If I try to feed on a hive the weaker ones get targeted and robbed out. I have tried everything you have done and more. Best way I have found is also the most simple: One Gallon Ziploc Bags! I fill them up about half way and lay them out away from the hives. I then use a small nail to poke about 12 tiny evenly spaced holes. I'll lay about 6 of them out which is 3 gallons total. Because there are so many, and the feed is spread out, they can easily take it down in a day! I refill them each morning before too many bees are flying and can refill the bags without spilling more than a few drops. I'll bring out a 3 gallon bucket of feed and pour that into a smaller pitcher to fill up the bags. This takes about 5 minutes a day to make the feed and fill up the bags. EASY! I can also reuse each bag for about 2 weeks before exposure to the sun seems to make them leak. The brand name "freezer" ones, with the zipper tops, seem to last a bit longer and are easier to close when you're trying to keep bees out. We've had some tough summers out here in CA and this is the method that has really saved me, and the bees!

[@vinofarm]

I hear you. However, this was the LAST window I had for any sort of liquid feed for the year. (Unless we get a heatwave.) I had 48 hours and I wanted to offer them as much syrup as possible. I was up against the clock. It's now in the low 30s at night and barely 50 during the day. No more syrup.

[@mtnmyke]

Sounds like you're ready for your quilt boxes and some fondant/sugar. I'm always jealous of everyone in the summer with their blooms and here in CA we hit our hardest times with the drought and the nectar dearth. It's time to turn the tides as winter is our time, and Eucalyptus is about to bloom! I added pollen patties a couple weeks ago and the girls are building up strong! Hopefully we get some rain this year as on a good year my hives can fill a medium with nectar in a week! The world record for one hive to produce the most amount of honey was actually done a few miles from where I'm at. Get those girls set for Winter and pray they make it through to spring!

[@joseph310]

You are the king of don't do this lesson vids. Keep up the follies.

[@gapey]

oh man what a mess. I've never tried open feeding with exception of to clean out a frame or two or clean out extracting equipment. Good to experiment though and see what works for you.

[@scotthoneyfarms5459]

chicken waterer and marbles in the tray. weve been feeding this way for years and it works perfect

[@T289c]

I did both today. Open and with internal feeders in each of the hives as well. Like you I am limited with space. I have hives on an urban roof. I reduced all my entrances to the smallest opening. What happens to me is I get lots of bees getting into my house down the vents in the roof. I think the Rainy September we had really ruined the fall nectar. These bees need to put on weight quick. Looks like I will be checking them every other week in the winter for weight and stores.

[@vinofarm]

We're officially too cold for syrup now. I left a gallon (internally) on three of my really light hives about 5 days ago and they had hardly touched it as of today. They weren't even huddled on it when I opened the hives. I put a bunch of dry sugar in today and wrapped them all up. We're going to have nights in the 20s this week!

[@T289c]

Down here in Brooklyn it was 65 degrees today so I think it was the last hurrah. I will make fondant around Thanksgiving and keep checking weight throughout the winter. We are still above freezing, tomato plants still fine.

[@vinofarm]

Wow. Tomatoes... I remember the first year here in 2007 picking tomatoes outdoors on Halloween. (They weren't great, but they were edible.) Since then we've been growing in the hoophouse and regularly pick until the end of October. This year they were all turning brown at the end of September (in the protected hoophouse). Very strange year for us. We're also at 1200', so that also changes things. There are still flowering plants in Boston, due east 60 miles, but we haven't had any flowers for two weeks.

[@ronaldstilwell3464]

I have had some success with open feeding---but do it VERY sparingly. Like once, maybe twice in the Fall. Let them chug it down and be done with it. Otherwise your drawing in bees from other hives (and all the problems that come with them) and yellow jackets and possible robbing.

[@skywave12]

I only use top or frame feeders. When I got my first 2 nucs I watched them both take down 1 and half gallons of 1 to 1 in 3 hours from a open top feeder with 1/8 in floating screen setup, they were 3 weeks established. I thought there must be local Bee's invading. But nope. Like any animal, they can have hay chewing in their mouth and bawl at you for more, all while being overweight. Hope your Winter is well for your Bee's. Some hives here in central cali are still laying like its Spring. In my case I have to get ready for Swarms in Feb.

[@pattycastle7863]

Hello Veno Farms, just watched your “Never doing this again” video. We bought top feeders that have a plastic basin with lid. Works great and easy to add syrup, easy to switch over to fondant. This is so sad. Who in the world suggested this (blood)syrup bath!?!?

[@vinofarm]

This system is demonstrated all over beekeeping youtube. Theoretically it should work and many others seem to have success with it. Not me. From now on, I'll stick to what I know works for me... internal pail feeders. The goal here was to get as much food as possible into the hives as quickly as possible because we had a 2 day window of warmish weather and the forecast was a steep drop to cold after that. Lessons learned.

[@hamlakehoneybees2693]

I found the hay to be obstructing for the bees to get to the syrup. I than used thin layer of wood chips and it worked way better with no dead bees.

[@williamadams9318]

Yes, I live in Florida now. But I don't keep bees anymore. When I was a kid in southern Illinois, I not only kept mine, but everyone I knew wanted me to keep their hives. So, I did. Until farm chemicals came up everywhere. Eventually, the chemicals got me too! But it was the way of the world. Verroa destructor were just getting going when I stopped. We bought everything from sears back then. It was ideal, and cheap. But that was what made everything easy, simplicity. Re queen ING was just call in it. They would have it on the counter the next day. We try too hard, and pass up the "gift" of the now.

[@bluzervic]

I find the best way was internal feeding. It sure is a lot different dealing with 12 hives than with 3. You have come a long way.

[@whosaidyoucandance]

A few hundred dead bees maybe, in an apiary with several hundred thousand bees in it. How many bees do you guess you lose each day with a hive top feeder? How many bees die each day from age related causes? It's interesting to work out the numbers for your apiary.

[@vinofarm]

I know that there are daily losses and a lot of these foragers will be dead soon anyway. It's just disheartening to know that with my normal method (Internal inverted pail feeders) there would have been zero casualties. I don't feed with open hive top feeders. Every death in this video was preventable. Beekeeper error.

[@jerrydegroot1573]

Possibly have used 1 -1 ratio. I have had these type and they haul off 100 lbs of sugar (and 100 lbs of water) in a good warm day!

[@amandasuedmeyer1796]

Aww man, I feel for you, and the bees... sorry this didn’t work out for you 🙁. Still, thanks for sharing because not only will you have learned from this, also your audience will too! 😊 try not to bee too hard on yourself 🐝

[@cluelessbeekeeping1322]

If you put out a tiny tiny feeder in one location the bees will know about the 'regular' feeding station. After the bees know about that spot (you can place your open feeders there). My bees can take hours beefore they find the feeders. Once they find it, it's 'game on' and it fills quickly with bees.

[@rodbeckstedt8588]

It does not go down fast. It's meant for long term feeding. I can have a bucket last 4 days.

[@michaelgilbert7851]

I tried the bucket method back in mid summer dirth I ended up killing alot of bees! So I just used the holes in the jar lid method I put out 4 jars and it works fine no dead bees lots of ants but I can live with that! !Nice video!

[@theantithesis1]

Is there a reason to not use fondant if the weather is too cold to use syrup?

[@gregwaskom552]

We use the gal buckets like you have. Just put 5 of them out. But needs to be furthrr from your hives

[@myname5713]

I just feed from an open bucket with a bunch of leaves and sticks in it No top, just an open bucket with stuff for the bees to land on so they don't drown

[@Les0613]

Not a fan of open feeding. It is kind of late to be giving them syrup, they won’t be able to dry it down before they start to cluster. Beekeeping is a continuous learning experience and a challenge.

[@RoughAndWretchedRAW]

Check out the Canadian beekeepers blog. See how he open feeds. I do the same. Works great.

[@PilotMcbride]

2 feeding ideas, but only 1 solution. **Not a bee keeper** but...... Your internal feeding worked a treat and your 1st iteration of open feeding scared the begeezus out of you. So, a possible solution could be to mount your internal feeders, inverted, on open stands away from your hives. It may happen that you will still have to fill the (smaller) feeder buckets every day but they will be away from the hives and the hives will have adequate ventilation to remove the moisture from the hive. Having say 10 mounted feeders away from the hives, encircling your bee yard, possibly 10 - 20 (maybe up to 50) metres should ease congestion at the feeding points. Wishing you success my friend. Cheers from down under 🇦🇺 🍺🍺 🐝🐝

[@vinofarm]

You're a genius! (I had the same idea. Ha ha!)

[@PilotMcbride]

Hmmmmm....... Just wondering which saying to use........ It has to be either one of these 2.... 1. "Great minds think alike"...... or 2. "Fools never differ"........😉 I'm going for option 1, lmao!!! Cheers mate. 🍺🍺

[@MeditationMusic11]

Put lemongrass oil about 15 drops 5 gallons and make your holes 11:30 seconds no bigger

[@timtrotman6779]

Not a beekeeper, but with those green buckets the bees seem to prefer to cling to the edges and i didn't see as many struggling bees there (that might be due to the amount of the bees, not sure though). Maybe (if you are going to try this again) maybe do buckets which have a higher edge to open area ratio? they seem to slip off a lot less when they have a solid wall to grasp as oppose to hay. Not a beekeeper though, so take my words with maybe a pinch of salt

[@OkieRob]

Probably simplify things to just put a gallon bucket right on the inner cover , pull the bucket at the end of the day and slap the telescoping top back on. Just close off any notches on the rim of the inner cover with screen or a piece of tape to prevent any intruders. Takes extra labor but less dead bees. Maybe something to think about for future feedings. This would also be less stressful for the bees.

[@vinofarm]

That is how I've been doing it since day one. This experiment was an attempt to inject as much feed as possible into the hives during a short weather window. (Everyone tells me open feeding is fastest.) But also, I don't want feeders on the hives now because I want that inner cover hole open for evaporation. The buckets on top seal that opening. Pail feeders are my preferred method. It's just that this two day window was all I had and now we have freezing nights. I need the hives to evaporate moisture full time during the days now.

[@devonharrison9220]

i think your problem was that you were creating a vacume within the bucket. try drilling another hole at the top and install some sort of one way valve so that the air can get in to the bucket better and the syrup can flow easier

[@wadebarnes6720]

I just started watching this but I will say I tried it one time it's one of them things once you start you can't stop because if you do in the other beehive can smell it in the other beehive they will try to take it

[@td4190]

Thanks for the lesson and what not to do on that one brother. Glad u did it and not me

[@vinofarm]

I do what I can to help.

[@timothyodonnell8591]

I snuck a peek at your Instagram pictures. What is the difference in the R-value between the tar paper you used last year and what you will use this year? Or does the R-value not matter because the first layer is to keep the wind out and not for insulation?

[@vinofarm]

Correct. The sleeves/tar paper are not for insulation. However, the way I'm installing the sleeves, most air breaks are going to be sealed (except for the entrances and top vivaldi board holes. The tar paper can't come close to sealing gaps like these sleeves. So they will hold SOME heat in and definitely seal out almost all wind.

[@denaer]

Use chicken waterers with pebbles or marbles in the deep parts. The only issue is that you have to catch it before it’s empty or the bees try to go inside.

[@colbyjones9217]

Put a large rock over the hole or a small piece of screen this is what I do and I haven't had any bees get inside.

[@RozeArabians]

This is what I've been doing and it's worked really well, I have three hives and they pulled out 3 1/2 c of 2:1 in about 2 hours today, I'll put out more tomorrow. Very few dead bees.

[@drrota]

ya - agreed - bad time to give liquid food - they can't dry it out in the hive, nor cap it over It will turn into a moisture liability. On top of that you get a lot of wasp predators, and its just a grave yard the next day. - I tried this in 5 small 4"x4"x1" plastic trays (with grass) . The next day each plastic tray had about 60 bees chopped in half - yellow jackets no doubt. I'm feeding dry food inside all my hives now. - not the best, but it beats dead wet bees, and especially bees that have been chopped up. My neighbor in Leominster had a bear topple his hives last night - yes, - watch out for them. - another reason not to do open feeding - he was using boardman feeders.

[@UrbanHomesteader101]

maybe you can show us your method of feeding on top of hives I am in CA so my temps days are higher than your year round but we do have to feed too!

[@vinofarm]

This is how I've fed my bees since day one... 1 gallon pail feeders: kzbin.info/www/bejne/onakgn-GnLx6nac

[@sunshaker01]

Would a different syrup concentration result in less sticky bees?

[@vinofarm]

Possibly, but you can't put 1:1 or light syrup into the hives this late. It would take too long for them to evaporate it.

[@johnabbottphotography]

This really is like watching a master class on beekeeping.

[@vinofarm]

Ha ha... That's a nice compliment... But not an accurate one!

[@georgegoertzen4723]

Ya, a lot of sticky bees in there, but you poured a lot of sticky bees into the open feeder when you dumped the bucket, and likely splashed a lot more into the syrup as you poured it, so you can't count all those losses to the feeder. If you set it out, already to go before the bees found it, you may have a lot fewer dead bees. Just a different point of view to consider.

[@RichBlueWaterHunter]

Thank you for trying

[@Seraphiram]

Use paper towel it absorbs the liquid but doesn't sink and bees can stand on the towel drinking from it.

[@mdem5059]

Oof, that cliff hanger, you're killing us!

[@alfadrone]

What I've learned after 9 years of bee keeping... shouldn't have to feed if you didn't take too much honey. Bees will die when open feeding. Do not open feed that close to your hives. Every method, (except Mason jars) of top feeding I've tried drowns bees, so I only use Mason jars to top feed when needed. If you do have to feed due to a dearth, or a build up, get them to draw wax, etc. Top feed that hive, with Mason jars with 5 little pin holes in the lid that's what works best for me. Put that jar in the top of the hive with a hole in the inner cover for the jar. A spare box around it. I use all 8 frame mediums. I would never feed liquid syrup this late, (October 20th) will be too much moisture in the hive, would only feed fondant/candy only if they absolutely needed it to keep them from starving. I do make hard bee candy to give a hive but only when absolutely necessary, and then it is usually only needed in December or January, when they may be running out of food and clustered at the top of the hive. I make 2 lb. tubs of hard candy in old lunch meat containers put the lids on and store them. I follow the candy recipes that call for a little lemon juice, or vinegar, to speed up the conversion of sucrose into glucose and fructose. If a hive needs it I take the lid off the candy tub, open the hive and put the tub upside down over the inner cover hole. The hard candy also absorbs moisture in the hive. Currently 16 hives, bears, (electric fence), varroa mites,(oxalic acid), wax moth (strong hives), small hive beetles, (beetle traps)... yup this bee keeping keeps you on your toes. kzbin.info/www/bejne/aarcpJVtfNWlb9E Good luck with your bees!

[@cluelessbeekeeping1322]

I have 2 'regular' hives and 6 small nucs. Yesterday I gave them 2 gallons and they sucked it down in 2 hours. Today I gave them 4 gallons and they sucked it down in 3 hours (they knew the location). My mixture was closer to 50:50, maybe 60:40 I always do the 'floaty' bit and they suck it down much faster than the hole-in-bucket-method. Sugar is so cheap, and giving them open feeding fills up their hives so fast that I don't mind feeding some neighborhood bees while feeding my bees. You've got much cooler temps, though (here it's like 67). I also put out some UltraBee and they were attacking that as well. Open feeding works so well! The hives fill up their comb much faster than adding internal feeders...I don't know why, perhaps it's some sort of frantic competition...but it sure is efficient! The only downside is you get some deaths. Having enough floaties helps.

[@vinofarm]

Explain "floaties"? I was hoping for the result you're describing. That's what I keep hearing about open feeding... rapid consumption and hive storage. Not what I experienced!

[@cluelessbeekeeping1322]

I use those thin(er) pool noodles, slice them up into 1/4" slices with a bread knife and throw them into the floating syrup. I've used straw too. I always get deaths, though. The best, by far, floaties I've used (floaties = anything which floats in my vocab) are corks which I sliced up about 1/8" thick on a band saw...it gives them less room to drown. Damn bees love to drown. I've heard it's cause they push each other down trying to get to the syrup (kind of like a concert mob crowd, but with bees and sugar instead of music). I posted a vid--sheck it out.

[@beezerk4623]

Hiya, I can understand the awkwardness of the 12 bucket feeders. I've found that the open top feeders are so much easier as you never actually open the hive, just lift the lid and pour in the syrup, sugar, or fondant. Never seen a bee killed either. Check out the model available from ceracell in NZ, not sure if you have a US manufacturer doing an 8 frame. I use a Hive Doctor one piece, but I run 10 frame boxes. www.ceracell.co.nz/blue-top-feeder-7-5l-for-8-frame-langstroth/

[@MrBaltdave]

My neighbor uses those chicken watering things...I have seen the gravel done in a few youtube videos though.

[@a_watsonnl494]

That was heartbreaking. Im so sorry that it didn't work amd you lost as many bees as you did. Do you think it was a heavy loss?

[@Anonymous-mb9kc]

Way to leave it with a cliff hanger. Keep up the great content even when its a catastrophe.

[@heathersfeatherfarm3245]

Funny enough I had a customer come In today at tsc he brought the huge plastic easy fill chicken waterer he told me he was buying it for his bees since he doesnt like bucket feeding. Maybe it might help?

[@davidsachs4883]

If humidity from the syrup is a problem, couldn’t the syrup be made thicker. 5:2 or even 3:1?

[@VenomTheCat]

He was referring that 2:1 is too thick making it thicker would have caused way more issues. He should have made it regular 1:1 so it flowed more like water especially in the cold.

[@raerohan4241]

Maybe just use fondant? And if you feed syrup now, won't it still be too much moisture going in even if it's 2:1 syrup?

[@vinofarm]

It's on the edge of being late. It was the final feed of the year. Fondant will come later.

[@JustMe-cr1dr]

Did you drill a vent hole in the top of the upside-down bucket? Just plug it up with (hahaha) duct tape till you get it outside and into position, then take the tape off and things should work fine. (....something about pressure between the syrup inside the bucket vs the pressure outside the bucket......)

[@hyfy-tr2jy]

Have you actually tried this before? If you drill a hole in the top the syrup will just continually run out and make a giant mess.

[@thadewman112]

I'm not a beekeeper, but i've watched you and a few others for a couple of years now, but i've got an idea? couldn't you just take an empy(assumingly spare) drawn frame, lay it horizonally(and level) and pour syrup into the open comb, so long as the opposing side is blocked in some way?..this would give the bees the surface area needed to avoid crowding and a familiar surface area to walk on for gathering syrup. i could be wrong, and it may be a catastrophically bad idea for reasons unknown, but if im right, i think it'd give you about 20 times the surface area for syrup collection. you could do it with 3-4 frames surrounding the perimiter of the bee yard and im sure all 4 frames would be empty within a couple hours. doesn't each frame hold about 3 quart of honey? so you'd have 12 quarts of collection every hour or two...just an idea

[@vinofarm]

This is something that has crossed my mind. However, I was trying to feed 12 gallons of syrup. That would have been a gigantic array of sticky frames laying about. Bees also tend to wreck valuable comb when they are robbing it out like that. It may have been a similar mess. I have thought about just filling drawn comb with syrup and putting the frames into the hives.I don't know if that would work.

[@sophialarson1578]

@@vinofarm sorry- you can't use that method - it just makes too much sense

[@Psyche8D]

William Smith Putting syrup in drawn comb is a last ditch method for feeding a starving colony. The risk is opening a weak hive in the cold. By putting the syrup frame next to the brood ball the bees can get the food without traveling far. Colonies can have lots of honey stored or syrup on top, but they won’t find it if it’s too cold and the store are far away from the cluster.

[@cluelessbeekeeping1322]

I've added syrup to an empty frame (empty wax comb)to weak colonies a few times. Each and every time it turned to absolute super robbing. I lost about 2/4 nucs when I added syrup straight to the comb. My 'clever' idea was a super disaster. I don't know how many dead bees you have, but, fyi, if you use open feeding, you get 'lots' of dead bees, I get maybe 1 or 2 cups per 5 gallon bucket. In the grand scheme of things, those numbers are negligible. Now, I'm used to it, but it's hard to get there. Hey---I still will make a trip outside if a bee catches a ride into the house with me...so, I do still care about individual bees...but if I can avoid deaths, I will. I feel badly you have such cold weather so soon. We're (in Austin, TX) still getting warm weather, today I gave them 6 gallons. Yesterday I noticed a couple of nucs were 95% dry (honey). I don't know what they did with all their syrup from last week! They're also going insane over open feeding of pollen (Ultra Bee Dry...good stuff!) I'm not sure on this, but---it's a guess, I think if you're open feeding a weaker mixture of syrup and they take it into their hive, it's better than them taking virtually no thick syrup. Bees prefer nectar to honey if they have a choice. One thing which I don't understand, though, if you were feeding them internally for 2 weeks, why would you worry about feeding them more quickly?? (I've never fed a hive so long internally) Did the bees not fill the hives up with syrup during this time? Dang bees...we try, but they just do as they do...

[@cutterleaf576]

I hate to say this, but I could not stop laughing after 6:30.

[@davidwilliams4615]

small air hole in the top to let the pressure out

[@nicholascosta6170]

I have bought foam board to make a shell around my 10 frame deep Double brood box hive because of the cold living in upstate New York. I have looked at the old videos posted on how you constructed them, but I can’t figure out the dimensions used. Does anyone know the dimensions for both the brood box, and the top cover?

[@vinofarm]

Nicholas Costa Just go measure your equipment and add an inch! Then build your covers to fit.

[@johntripp2028]

what size hole did you drill and where in the reservoir did you drill.

[@vinofarm]

I drilled the holes just about in the middle of each reservoir. Started with 1/8" bit and the next day enlarged to just under 1/4".

[@MrSenset]

I think you might have used too much straw in the bucket?

[@vinofarm]

Perhaps... this was my first try. However, where the straw was "thinner" on the surface, there were a lot more drowned bees. I'm not sure.

[@MrSenset]

Vino Farm I’m just guessing by the way. I have no actual experience bee keeping so I’m just trying to throw ides out there. I very much do not want to come off like I’m trying to sound like an expert or anything thing. I’m just rooting for you and want to see you succeed in your bee keeping.

[@wadebarnes6720]

I will tell you a mason jar on the very top of the hive it will not freeze unless it gets really cold cuz we had a warm up and one of my beehive was light and I put a half a gallon mason jar on top of the hive checked on it two days and it was about half gone then honestly I forgot about it and it was in the 30s for the next three days I looked at it pretty much gone but was not froze

[@vinofarm]

I have not had that experience. That might be true with 1:1, but 2:1 syrup tends to crystalize on me if the temps drop to the 40s.

[@wadebarnes6720]

@@vinofarm the way I figured out it would work I was feeding them late summer early winter nights was getting in the 30s the days were still in the 60s and I bought I think called Clair seals feeders and I made up some two to one and feel the feeders up and it take them long to take them down so I just filled them up again life got busy and I said to myself I need to go out there and go ahead and remove the feeders that way maybe they won't get extra ventilation to them and the bees was still feeding and they wasn't froze so one of them I just left it on and it's still on there and the bees are f****** massive more bees than I ever thought would fit in a box so if the population is big enough to generate the heat keep it warm it'll work

[@Sqeptick]

I open feed with good results, but that pale of straw made my stomach turn when you pulled it out. I know you've got to worry about bears, but you should only open feed away from your hives; one of the benefits of open feeding is it cuts down on robbing, but you may actually increase robbing by putting the syrup right in your bee yard.

[@vinofarm]

It was for a single day. It was meant to reduce the travel time for the bees. That night, temps went down into the low 30s F and the bees stopped flying. Robbing was the least of my concerns on this day. It was all about getting food into the hives as fast as possible.

[@Sqeptick]

@@vinofarm Understand... also it looks like 1000 people commented similarly, which must be annoying. Keep making great videos.