Len McCluskey: The Moment I Knew Corbyn was Doomed

Len McCluskey on how Labour lost so emphatically in 2019.
Watch the full episode here: • Something Sinister is ...
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[@paulharris8983]

Heartbreaking. Truly, heartbreaking. What a missed opportunity to fundamentally change British society for the better.

[@stephensmith2601]

Exactly right.The Tories didn't beat Jeremy Corbyn, Labour did.

[@thetruth-loveitorhateit7999]

Correct - destroyed from within.

[@baronmeduse]

@@iangascoigne8231 You're being silly. It was always clear -and is in the video - that Corbyn wanted to unite both wings. It was a fault, but to conclude from this that Labour's defeat was merely Corbyn's failure is ignorant. He was popular precisely because he had a Brexit position and the only thing driving people away to vote for the Tories, the red wall voters, was Starmer and his 2nd vote nonsense and the whipped-up anti-Semitism nonsense. There is no 'St Jeremy', but you using it tells me you're a closet centrist.

[@LKeet6]

@@iangascoigne8231 what do you mean "always?" This was one situation... why was he "crap?"

[@jimcrelm9478]

@@iangascoigne8231 Corbyn was a weak leader in some ways - McClusky says this himself in the interview - he failed to silence his critics once they showed themselves to be so unprincipled and so willing to harm the party with their factionalism, and to present a clear, winning Brexit option to the public. But it remains true that sections of the PLP and the party bureaucracy were ideologically committed to sabotaging any socialist leader, while even Corbyn's base had been infected with the same arrogant, entitled, opportunist, antidemocratic mindset, and similar comfortable filter bubbles, that affect the Labour right and most political journalists. The fact that they chose a second referendum over loyalty to Corbyn's soft Euroscepticism and any chance of victory demonstrates that they were not blind followers of a personality cult. The fact that Corbyn has become a byword for a principled, democratic and pro-worker Labour Party is a reflection of the disgusting and anti-Labour attacks to which he was subjected almost constantly by the failed New Labour self-hating (at best, opportunist at worst) right. Dare criticise Blair for his disastrous political legacy that underlies so many of the festering political problems that harm Labour to this day, and you will learn who the real cultists are.

[@chrism3701]

Wrong. The electorate beat Corbyn by voting for the the scum party. Better get your idealistic heads around the fact that Joe public didn't trust him or vote for him. Given his latest interview in relation to NATO, I think they were right not to trust him. Before you go off on one, I a subs paying Labour supporter of many years.

[@FelonyBellend]

I remember having disagreements with so many socialists about the Brexit issue and how it is showing the seeds for Corbyn's downfall. Labour should have stuck to the acceptance narrative in Brexit, even though I voted to remain.

[@julianshepherd2038]

What? You don't think overthrowing democracy was worth it? I'm totally with you. There would have been ultra nationalist violence and a total loss in faith in our, admittedly poor, democratic system. Result would be strong man rule.

[@lauramartin5579]

Exactly. I know many members were remainders but they were also democratic and understood we had to respect the result. We could have had a very different brexit and a very different country by now.

[@LKeet6]

I'm in the same camp as you. Essentially, brexit was an extremely complex debate/issue, and the Tories absolutely profited from the chaos and split opinion, despite being FAR worse than labour on it. I didn't agree with quite a few things McCluskey said about Corbyn in this interview. I felt Corbyn was held to an unrealstic expectation and standard, especially compared to the conservatives! But he made some really interesting points on brexit. What he, and Bastani, said about "why didn't labour support brexit?" definitely influenced my thoughts.

[@chestikov2011]

Many so called socialists were for Brexit. Skinner was one he got ousted. Galloway socialist/libertarian populist pandering to the muslim vote. Wiberal Swinton scweeemed and scweemed. " Brexit no way we will not have it " So these examples show how screwed up it was. De Pfeffel Johnson stabbed ex Etonians up so he was seen as the person to deliver Brexit after May was bounced out. So within those parameters and the fact snide Labour had stitched JC up he stood 0 chance in 2019. 2015, 2017 more lunacy. Democracy has had it's day. Bourgeois democracy is kidology. We need a Castro not a NATO arse kissing Tory rabble.

[@LKeet6]

@@chestikov2011 why are they "so called" socialists? What the fuck is a "socialist/libertarian"? How is he "pandering" to Muslims? (I hate Galloway, to be clear.) So much to unlock with your post. Fascinating.

[@suchisthismystery2814]

Listening to this is massively frustrating, infuriating and utterly heartbreaking.

[@zippymufo9765]

The Left can be always guaranteed to self destruct

[@Adamb87]

I was blaming Starmer for the defeat in 2019 before it happened, after it happened and ever since . The day he became leader I walked away from Labour .

[@thetruth-loveitorhateit7999]

Yes.

[@pemberton6974]

Lier ADAM B is out spreading bullshit 😒

[@cerberus7849]

Me to

[@ghengis430]

And me.

[@patrickmccutcheon9361]

Why blame Starmer for the result in 2019? He was not the leader. Now he is leader he makes a good job of skewering the PM in the HoC. Not sure what he would actually do as PM.

[@AlJalandhari]

So fucking sad. And there are still a lot of PMC types who say we lost because we weren’t pro remain enough

[@cerberus7849]

Someone said the person who doesn't want to rule is the one we must have has our ruler That's why I voted for Corbyn a thoroughly decent and honest man

[@uhtredragnorson9930]

Yeah and he’d be a good one to remove your appendix too. Who needs experience or expertise.

[@fredatlas4396]

Totally agree with you, and I think none of the tories are decent and honest. We are really screwed now, the tories are destroying our country

[@suchisthismystery2814]

R.I.P. In Loving Memory of the Labour Party 1900 - 2019

[@johnhodkinson2063]

Jeremy Corbyn was too nice to lead the Party. He needed to stamp down hard on those in the PLP that were campaigning against him and the membership

[@SlowhandGreg]

He was just not a leader and most of us older voters saw him as a throwback to the 70's / 80's and a completely inferior version of Foot in every way. Foot lost by a landslide as well

[@starnostras]

@@SlowhandGreg We got the throwback to the 70's then. That being the older voters fucking over the youth they're meant to look out for. Give the generations since Thatcher an opportunity to build a decent life, for goodness sake.

[@stevenpaulgoulding]

More like an inferior Tony Benn. Michael Foot tried to distance the Labour Party from the left.

[@bothi00]

​@@starnostras Thatcher won the youth vote

[@gpan62]

Respecting the result of a vague referendum that had questionable funding? Why? Take a look at how the Swiss (the experts in referendums) run referendums. If lies are spread during a referendum a judge can throw out the results.

[@for111]

A Party Political Broadcast on Behalf of the Conservative Party

[@richardmargerison1744]

You can't change the rules after you lose.

[@gyorkshire257]

What are you talking about, have you ever seen an election in which no lies were told? A second referendum was totally idiotic, a betrayal of democracy. We were told that the referendum was final, no do-overs. I took a week of work to canvas a marginal seat, doing two days a week before that. Every single person who was switching tory mentioned Brexit. We made a promise in 2017 and we didn't keep it. And the chiefs of People's Vote knew that no party proposing a second referendum could win, they had no interest in getting the vote, they just wanted to stop socialism.

[@chrisbirmingham5132]

@@cujimmi Everything was vague about the referendum. There was no requirement for anyone advocating Leave to present any sort of binding plan or manifesto. And what wasn't vague was ridiculously skewed (not least by 30+ years of fact-free tabloid journalism and all the political parties conveniently ascribing all their more unpopular, but necessary decisions to the EU). Those who argued for Brexit were permitted to make any argument that entered their heads, however fantastical: some advocated being out of the EU but in the single market and the customs union, others out of the EU but in the single market, others out of the EU but in the customs union. There was going to be a Norway-style Brexit, a Swiss-style Brexit, a Canada-style Brexit (more or less the Outer Mongolian option), a hard Brexit, a soft Brexit and any other Brexit you fancied. There were 57 varieties of Brexit and they all translated into a Leave vote, while no one advocating them had any responsibility for implementing them or paying the costs. On the other side, all votes to stay inside the world's largest common market could be characterized as votes for small c conservatism and against any kind of change. In televised debates, the pro-Leave speakers appeared behind a Union flag while Remain speakers appeared behind the EU flag, suggesting not only that the two were somehow antithetical, but making Leave voters look more "patriotic" (in the tabloid newspaper sense). Similarly, the national broadcaster had to give equal time to sensible people and to those who believe Patrick Minford and friends have some kind of grasp on reality. If any other "democratic" exercise had been conducted along these lines, every country in the world with a functioning democracy would have denounced it.

[@socialistquickfix]

You’re analysing the referendum using the same bourgeois legalistic logic that lost Labour the election in 2019. The referendum wasn’t important or binding legalistically, it was significant as a genuine democratic outpouring with a clear class character. The workers voted out. In a sense your logic was indulged in the 2019 campaign, the referendum was institutionally discredited by the Labour Party and what was the result? Labour went to the country and had their arse handed to them. You don’t build politics from an idealised legal standpoint - you build politics from the ground up, by going to the level of the masses and by standing up for the working class.

[@dr_jamie_ranger]

Oliver Eagleton's latest book "The Starmer Project: A Journal to the Right" has an excellent section that goes into brilliant detail about how the Labour Right used the People's Vote campaign to destroy Corbynism.

[@zippymufo9765]

What's pathetic is the inability of the Corbynites to counter that even though they saw it coming. An aggressive case for "Lexit" or "soft Brexit" might have neutralized those people and prevented so many of these Labour people from mindlessly embracing Remain and forcing Corbyn into a position guaranteed to split the vote.

[@sueq6]

What a good bloke, and spot on

[@maheshunlimited]

basically if Cameron had not done a referendum, we would probably still be in the reign of Corbyn.

[@julielevinge266]

No I don’t agree, this is just one aspect but the establishment would never allow Corbyn to continue after the 2017 result.

[@zippymufo9765]

@@julielevinge266 The 2017 result where Labour were still 60 seats away from a majority? 😂

[@shuddafukkup]

That’s a scary thought 😮

[@stevenpaulgoulding]

@@zippymufo9765 That is like a football team is two nil down but score a late consolation goal would’ve won, if the match went on for another 20 minutes after the full time whistle.

[@zippymufo9765]

@@stevenpaulgoulding Pretty much. They did better than expected but still lost by a huge margin and they've created this entire fiction that they almost won. It's nonsense, they would have needed another 750,000 votes spread across 60+ seats to win.

[@gyorkshire257]

What Aaron says at 12 minutes is spot on, how did we look at Farage winning the Euros and think "ah, the people want to stay in the EU!'

[@Sakkir_Stahma]

Because he didn't "win the Euros". It's not a FPTP situation. More voters supported parties that favoured Remaining in the EU or proposing a new referendum.

[@alfsmith4936]

Not many voted in E.U elections.. He was just good at riling up a small number of pensioners, who had time to piss everyone else off for a laugh.

[@zippymufo9765]

@@Sakkir_Stahma That isn't relevant to the Labour voter base, where they were going to be punished no matter where they stood. Hence the convoluted Brexit policy, which was a desperate attempt to placate both sides.

[@davidmcculloch8490]

Ultimately, I believe Len to be correct. In hindsight, the worst mistake from Labour was to respect the referendum vote unconditionally: there should have been a proviso ... on the condition that no electoral rules were broken. Having made their decision, Labour turning back made them appear untrustworthy. The campaign should have been on continued trading cooperation with the EU and the stupidity of a hard brexit.

[@SlowhandGreg]

They could have campaigned for a full Norway still in the single market but out of the EU

[@davidmcculloch8490]

@@SlowhandGreg agreed.

[@zippymufo9765]

@@SlowhandGreg The problem was that Brexit was so toxified by people like Farage that there was no political space to make the case for a "soft Brexit" or a "Lexit", even though that was the preference of the top Corbyn people.

[@aljackson8870]

This is absolutely spot on. Our view organising in Leeds as the LP and Momentum, was exactly this - the LP in London had bottled it and gone for remain, and we were losing people across our regions.

[@denisalderson3749]

Worst year's of our life's the 70s loads of work, no food banks, the working man had power, look at us now, pathetic

[@jonsmith5058]

Its amazing how revisionist history is portrayed now by so many. Putting Corbyn down as a radical no-one liked and ‘unelectable’, the lie was repeated so often it was made into truth, and now with Starmer behaving so disrespectfully as he does anything to grab power. Corbyn absolutely made mistakes regarding Brexit, but he was in a lose lose situation. I despise Starmer and resent that I still need him to win, I hope Corbyn still wins as an independent, just to show Starmer he won’t disappear quietly as he hopes.

[@fuckbankers]

Labour Party leader Jeremy Corbyn says his passion for remaining in the EU rates at about "seven, or seven and a half" out of 10. That's honesty for you.

[@StuartQuinn]

That was the point where we were doomed. A leader campaigning for a position he clearly didn't believe in was never going to work.

[@philmartin5689]

excellent analysis.

[@daviddevoy5966]

It seems obvious to me that Len thinks leaving the EU is an absolutely fantasic idea. Maybe he could explain why he thinks that. It seems like an absolutel train crash so far on so many fronts.

[@lucapresents4790]

I agree broadly with the leadership critique, Corbyn lacked it one way or the other regarding Brexit, also, why’s it’s a given that a 2nd referendum would have been a guaranteed win for remain

[@playcloudpluspc]

That would only be the case (guaranteed is a bit strong though) if Remain were better than the reality of Brexit (which it was of course). The thing about a referendum on a set in stone deal that is written in clear terms is that people couldn't invent a pack of lies to promise everything to everyone and hence those who advocated a hard Brexit while promising it was easy and wonderful would be held to account.

[@lucapresents4790]

@@playcloudpluspc I think labour perhaps should have not opted a 2nd ref option in 2019 and just conceded the remain cause to the lib dems and keep the 'heartlands', at least at that point perhaps the tories wouldn't have their current majority

[@Martooo251]

It wouldn’t have been a guaranteed win at all in 2019. In fact I’d argue the opposite however if one was called now I’d say it would be a guaranteed win. Labour played the 2nd referendum card far too early. It’s sad to say but the disaster that brexit is had to play out to change the minds of many.

[@jmasl7]

@@Martooo251 how late were they supposed to play it?

[@alfsmith4936]

@@lucapresents4790 Nah. Everyone I know thought he was a Communist, IRA, Hamas, anti English, blah, blah. Going along with the lie wouldn't have helped him at all.

[@Retog]

But Brexit wasn’t important. People should have just voted Labour and not cared about this nonsense. Socialism is what is important.

[@Retog]

@Nick Thorn I’m just talking about how people vote. They should look at the other policies and ignore Brexit when choosing between Labour and the tories

[@Retog]

@@cujimmi that’s some low quality bait if ever I saw it

[@socialistquickfix]

You don’t decide what is and isn’t important - the people do.

[@socialistquickfix]

@Nick Thorn yep

[@Retog]

@@socialistquickfix Well it was the media and Farage that decided to make Brexit an important issue. The people get angry about what the media tells them to

[@daviddevoy5966]

I firmly believe leaving the EU is an absolutly stupid idea but I agree with Len, trying to overturn the referendum result probably sank Labour. However even now I cannot see how the referendum result could be implemented without multiple issues with UK unity and trade with he EU.

[@bothi00]

Perhaps UK unity should be abandoned then?

[@delphineblackburn3944]

I’m from Southampton, I live in a Council Estate and believe me there are more poor people than rich! Get your facts right!!!!

[@kevingrant7098]

I voted for labour in the last election I want them to win in the next election one thing I know they should definitely do is improve their KZbin channel there is hardly any content you don’t get a reply to things you send. Social media is a way to get through to people I can’t believe the Labour Party have such a shoddy KZbin channel sort this out

[@almafrith778]

I agree. They need a KZbin channel to reach people.

[@fuckbankers]

They can't take criticism

[@ince55ant]

i love a good counter-factual and theres just so many ways the uk could have went when corybn was elected labor leader...

[@alangriffey8947]

Sounds like Len was/is a strong advocate of Leave. So he's happy about us joining up with the U.S.A.?

[@kevycanavan]

Alternate history with Len McCluskey. How can you know Labour would lose an election there wasn’t supposed to happen? 2019 was a snap election the government couldn’t call without Labour’s blessing. It was an own goal.

[@timelwell7002]

I think McCluskey was referring to the 2017 General Election, not the 2019 Election. Perhaps Labour should have said they would implement Brexit - but a 'soft' Brexit where the UK remained in the Customs' Union and the Single Market. But even then, Corbyn was demonized in the media. The policies were popular, but the leader wasn't - at least, not in the country as a whole.

[@SlowhandGreg]

Corbyn by 2019 was a dead weight he managed to pull a decent amount of seats in 2017 because of Tory unpopularity with a shift of leader who admittedly lied his arse off and an unpopular left wing candidate with a manifesto that would take 2 decades to implement if at all there was no path for labour

[@hamilcarluxemburg5266]

How can an opposition party oppose a chance to get in? Are you really suggesting labour should have voted against an election?

[@kevycanavan]

@@hamilcarluxemburg5266 definitely. If they should have at least rode the thing out to the spring. The Tories were completely on the ropes - couldn’t buy a vote and we’re looking pathetic. They gave the Tories a snap election in December when the weather is bad, which suppresses the vote - all on the governments own terms and the worst of it is, they were warned and did it anyway.

[@zippymufo9765]

@@kevycanavan Labour couldn't say no to an election after they'd been calling for one for years, since May ran into trouble with her Brexit deal. Also, the Lib Dems and SNP refused to wait. And the timing of the election had nothing to do with their failure, it was their imbecilic Brexit policy that lost them the Northern Labour voters. "We'll negotiate a Labour Brexit deal and put it to a vote, but we'll also campaign against the deal we negotiated". What a juvenile approach.

[@julianshepherd2038]

I'm not saying the SNP haven't flipped on major issues such as going pro NATO membership or dumping neoliberalism but people can follow a flip. They struggle to keep up with Labour and now we have Sir Keir Vaguely so I've lost touch altogether. The man talks in riddles.

[@zam1007]

An example please, if you will, of this riddle talk. Let's see if we can have a look at that for you.

[@lewa3910]

This just hurts

[@Kavafy]

But this ignores half of the picture. A lot of the youth vote went to Labour in 2017 because people hoped Labour would find a way out of Brexit. It was a promise they could never deliver on. But McCluskey's prescription would never have worked either.

[@SlowhandGreg]

Youth don't vote in enough numbers if you want to win elections you get the 50+ vote because they always turn up

[@andrewwelsh131]

Labour party did not give an honest chance to this man that the people wanted Brexit indecisions nobody knew what the party stood for and we remember sir plastic tory and the back. Stabbers

[@stan4723]

Shadow Brexit secretary had red lines which he refused to cross in regards of Theresa May's 'deal'.

[@abigailcharles5522]

Well said! Our country would have been in safe hands with JC. Lives would have been saved when COVID arrived. A safe pair of hands, certainly.

[@neilcolley25]

good show

[@profc9916]

It's fun watching literally everyone in the political establishment visit fantasy worlds where there was a Brexit that could have worked hahahaha.

[@theveganape]

So sad. If we hadn't have had the issue of Brexit come up to derail it, we might have had a Corbyn government. Just absolute tragic missed opportunity.

[@patrickmccutcheon9361]

Brexit would not have been a issue if the referendum had the gone the other way. Cameron would have remained PM and win the 2020 election.unfortunately thanks to the apeman and the spiv the English electorate voted overwhelmingly for it and the weight of the numbers overwhelmed the vote to remain of NI. Scotland and the native Welsh.

[@anthonydecastro6938]

Corbyn himself was rather wishy washy re Brexit. He did not like the European Union.

[@chrisvallely4050]

Give the working people a pay rise

[@juliangiulio3147]

Yes, I hear this a lot on the other side -who were very angry at him for not being more pro-second referendum! Jeremy is not able to lie. This is rare for a politician, but it is a sign of personal evolution inside! He was 50-50 over it and that's what it was for him!

[@sjewitt22]

Remember the media, haf was calling him a leaver other half calling him a remainer, know matter what position.

[@vijendrapatricknaryan2637]

Labour is so divided that they may never hold office for a long time. In general the union’s are a good for society, but if you start interfering with the government and the policy’s it becomes very difficult. Memories of the 70s come to mind. Now the union’s have little influence in the work place.

[@kevingrant7098]

I forgot immigration And that is number one

[@stan4723]

London-centric back to Peterloo

[@nakhan4132]

division within LAB led to downfall of JC. he should have made his position clear. JC is great guy, still support him

[@manufacturingdissent666]

when the Jew Card was played, thats the moment

[@libanmohamed5503]

What I thought 💭

[@AmsterdamHeavy]

LOL! I think the phrase is "shit kicked in". Thats what happened to Labour.

[@forestpump]

The Labour party could have split tbh

[@alankirkby465]

Do Labour Party, somehow don't really want power but really want be a party of Opposition ( just asking) British politics to me seems sort of a game ( just saying) Peace to all!!

[@daviddevoy5966]

It seems to me when Len talks about the British people he means English. He seems to have completely lost interest in getting any traction in Scotland.

[@zippymufo9765]

"They never talk about 2017". You mean that election where Labour was still 60 seats away from a majority? 😂 Depriving the Tories of their majority was a victory but it wasn't any grand endorsement of Corbyn.

[@DaraM73]

“Clever and educated people” [behind remain] is the working class against education or something?

[@AaronOgbuehi]

Remainers are more educated and intelligent

[@playcloudpluspc]

@Dnpe and much more corrupt and dishonest.

[@playcloudpluspc]

@Dnpe Brexit isn't even fully phased in yet (import checks are likely being delayed for the fourth time, hugely time consuming biometric checks haven't come in yet) and it's already caused huge disruption to our trade, greatly increased costs and created massive queues of lorries and put many small businesses which couldn't afford the necessary relocation to the EU/extra office in the EU + employing experts in managing the new regulations out of business, as well as created a huge labour shortage and greatly exacerbated existing shortages in the NHS and care sector and in menial jobs that many British people don't want to do but that are vital to our society and for our economy to function well. It is forecast by the OBR to cut our economic growth by 4% (double the economic impact of the pandemic), not to mention the permanent inflationary impacts on prices due to messing up our supply chains. It sounds pretty bad to me, at least the Tory hard Brexit version does. A Labour Brexit would have been much more sensible and much less damaging (even though I wanted to remain) and I wish they had won. Guess what this all means, more austerity and cuts to public services particularly with the Conservatives in charge.

[@playcloudpluspc]

@Dnpe You are the one in denial. The effects are very bad with lorry drivers often having to wait days instead of minutes in lorry parks (just ask the residents of Kent how they feel about their new lorry parks), there are no proper facilities and drivers are forced to relieve themselves by the side of the road. The satellite imagery and the work by people on the ground who are interested in the truth rather than hiding it shows the reality. Huge numbers of crops are rotting in the fields due to the massive labour shortage. The rest of the developed world have higher trade volumes than before the pandemic whereas we have lower (UK goods exports) and NI is doing much better than GB because they have much better access to the single market. The initial predictions from Osborne were based on immediately triggering Article 50 and taking no actions to cushion the blow and imposing an emergency budget on the country (instead Cameron and Osborne quit and the Bank of England took drastic action to prop up the economy; that Mark Carney who all the Brexiteers seem to hate saved your backsides, as well as Cameron's cowardice). The end of the transition period predictions were based on Brexit being immediately implemented all at once and not being phased in over time and the pandemic was used deliberately by this government to mask a number of the effects which is why they timed it as they did and then blamed any disruption and damage on the pandemic (Brexiteers are the ones moving the goalposts, they have the power to do so as they are running the country). You are lucky that you have a government and many in the media covering for you and trying to hide the huge damage of a hard Brexit from people because otherwise it would be dead in the water.

[@playcloudpluspc]

@Dnpe I don't know why your comments keep disappearing. Anyway, we disagree on this issue and I believe the evidence is clear. Things are not going well if you'd only just scratch the surface and look.

[@FFM0594]

As an uninvolved foreigner living abroad, it seemed as if Corbyn was not a leader.

[@abigailcharles5522]

Why?

[@FFM0594]

@@abigailcharles5522 1) He is a career politician 2) He wanted to leave the EU 3) His own party was very divided over him 4) He let the media steamroll him every day (See Mick Lynch for a lesson on how not to lose the initiative).

[@abigailcharles5522]

Please reply with facts. Career politicians are the likes of Cameron, Johnson. They only stay for as long as they can line their own pockets. Yes Labour was divided and has been since the Blair era. Blair's hero was Maggie Thatcher, day no more.

[@elliotlanceley7745]

Haha listen I loved JC and voted for him every time and in every leadership election, but when Aaron Bastani asked Len 'When did you realise JZ wouldnt be PM?' It does show a level of naivety on the left as honestly JC was never once close to even beginning to garner enough support to be PM, and it pains me to say that

[@MJ-qc2zh]

Weak spineless leadership!

[@BRM101]

Jeremy is a good man but he unfortunately was not a good leader.

[@brachiator1]

Interesting discussion. BREXIT was a bad idea and is killing the UK economy, but the Conservatives gained an advantage by pushing for it. Let's ignore Remainers for a moment. Corbyn danced around the issue of BREXIT and could never convince voters that he could implement it better than the Tories. Meanwhile Boris Johnson kept proclaiming that he could magically get BREXIT done. Corbyn is a good man, but a poor tactical politician.

[@brachiator1]

@Dnpe I am just an observer. I have no investment in BREXIT. To claim that BREXIT was some mystical expression of democracy misses the point. The Conservatives lied about the benefits of BREXIT. People got played for fools. Now they have to live with the consequences.

[@brachiator1]

@Dnpe OH, stop it. If the news and government reports are all propaganda, how do you know that BREXIT has succeeded? What's your source of information?

[@dondoodat]

Tories always put party before country, Labour country before party. Tories have a hierarchy, Labour is a democracy.

[@abigailcharles5522]

Sadly :was a democracy

[@dondoodat]

@@abigailcharles5522 Still is, if you're a member.

[@andybray9791]

Gisela Stuart would have been better

[@zippymufo9765]

At least he admits Corbyn was a weak indecisive leader.

[@zippymufo9765]

@@DaVane The problem is that Corbyn and all of his inner circle were Leavers and thought that socialism would have a better chance outside of the EU, but they could never make that argument to the wonderful new membership who were almost all Remainers. They tried to create a policy that would please both sides, it didn't work, and the Labour vote was split and let the Tories walk right in with a massive win.

[@zippymufo9765]

@@DaVane As one Corbynite disdainfully put it: "The membership thought the EU was the highest level of social development you could achieve".

[@jmasl7]

the "people's vote" (bad name for a good idea) was the only realistic way of overturning the decision to leave the EU

[@Erika-sp9gr]

😮tpy

[@garymellor7997]

Delusional

[@briangray966]

The only people Mccluskey and Corbyn listen to are McCLUSKEY and CORBYN

[@ih1825]

Prefer Corbyn to Starmer, however Corbyns ideals are unrealistic! Starmer no! I will make a prediction that Starmer will never be prime minister! Just like West Ham won't win the Premier league, bit random but guess you get it!

[@michaelmonaghan8026]

I hope Lens enjoying his retirement..... Another waste of space, job for life etc etc etc.... I'd be struggling to survive on his retirement pay

[@cyrneco]

Ok, what I'm understanding from that is that the only possible socialism in England is national socialism. Well then, from my point of view of European lefty (of the international kind) I'm now starting to think it was a good thing that corbyn and his wing lost.

[@fuckbankers]

Corbyn is a known internationalist.

[@cyrneco]

@@fuckbankers the man himself yes, but not his wing of the party if the man interviewed is right.

[@cyrneco]

@Immortal Science of Hauntology yep, definitely glad .

[@paulbangash4317]

💩

[@deadfish3789]

National socialism isn't even socialism, so this comment seems slightly nonsensical. Leaving the EU doesn't force you into nationalism. In some ways it allows you to extend your internationalism further with respect to non-EU countries.

[@soton5teve]

Er because we voted for brexit duh

[@abigailcharles5522]

Just. Certainly wasn't a landslide and the people weren't given the facts

[@kevycanavan]

If you think 2017 is impressive wait until you hear about 1997

[@duncanwalker1347]

Most of us sane people knew he would never be UK PM the day he was elected the Labour leader LOL

[@paulfitzpatrick3090]

There was no way JC would have be elected PM.

[@baronmeduse]

Not with a right-wing party machine undermining him, or a stupid electorate willing to believe smears and falsehoods about national bankruptcy.

[@gyorkshire257]

Not in 2019. He was a few thousand votes away from being PM 2017.

[@keithhallam1155]

@@gyorkshire257 If the Labour party had gained 30 more in the House of Commons in 2017 the careerist expense account junkies in the Parliamentary Labour Party would still have prevented Corbyn from becoming Prime Minister. These people would NOT support Corbyn; the Monarch has no obligation to "send for" anyone. Even a Corbyn led Labour Party with a clear majority after a General Election would not have resulted in Corbyn being PM.

[@philipjones9793]

very delusional from Mccluskey right from the start.

[@baronmeduse]

Give us your analysis then.

[@stevenpaulgoulding]

The moment I knew Labour was doomed was when Corbyn was elected leader in 2015.

[@ferguszade5594]

McCluskey - The Tories best weapon

[@Andyreally]

I’m interested, why do you think this?

[@ethelthecat1]

Says a Tory Tool. Out of the 54 seats Labour lost in 2019, 52 were Leave voting seats. Leave won 66% of constituencies. It was stupid Centrists who thought they could turn the 2019 General Election as a 2nd referendum under First Past The Post, even though that gave leave an advantage. Remaniacs split the vote by forming Change UK and causing the creation of the Brexit Party which only stood in Labour seats.

[@M2Mil7er]

@@Andyreally don't expect them to quantify that. It's just an empty soundbite.

[@Andyreally]

@@M2Mil7er I’m with you, but I do love to ask the question.

[@davidmcculloch8490]

Mindless trolling - McCluskey's worst enemy.