The Case for Preferments | Preferments vs. Long Fermentation

[@henrikhvass5595]

This is the most accurate and studied resume of the bread making process. In my professional experiece using exactly to the point everything that is explained by evidence , I must say that this is an extraordinary and precise resume. Thanks for your incredibly dedication and efforts.

[@NovitaListyani]

Thanks for sharing!

[@matthewrogers237]

This was incredible. I’ve been a pretty obsessed sourdough enthusiast for the last year. And I had heard some of this science but this was by far the most comprehensive explanation I’ve come across.

[@NovitaListyani]

Glad you enjoyed it!

[@rebeccapurvis4481]

I just discovered your videos last night and have been blown away by your incredibly detailed and informative discussions. The section on the dangers cross-contaminatiom by no knead dough is something should be heard/read by every bread baker. I'm primarily a sourdough baker and haven't made no knead bread since I first started baking, but in all the years I've made bread, I've never heard anything about this. I truly can't believe that this isn't commonly known information. Thank you so much for sharing your knowledge with us. I really, REALLY appreciate it!

[@NovitaListyani]

Thank you for your kind comment, and I'm happy to hear that the information was useful to you! Indeed, the dangers of contamination can be quite serious and should be known by more people. I've read enough about unfortunate outbreaks to be worried 😨

[@jameswalsh1941]

Hello I have just discovered this channel and i am already a fan. I am a professional baker with over 40 years experience and i find your mix of science and practically so refreshing, I am always on the lookout for new ideas and knowledge and here I believe I can find something new, The methods you are demonstrating are not new to me but the explanations are giving me a lot of new ideas, there is nothing in the world more satisfying to me than the sight of a perfect bread coming out of the oven and I believe you may be able to help me do my job better. Thank you

[@NovitaListyani]

Thank you! Glad to hear from a seasoned baker with such a long experience. A better insight can indeed bring out many untapped wonders of bread making.

[@markf3494]

I have been making sourdough bread for about 15 years and only this year started using a preferment. It took my 2 day bread making to 3 days but the flavor is worth it. I only knew a little of the science behind it but got most of my information from reading professional baking books and adapting it to my starter. You have greatly increased my knowledge of the science behind the art of breadmaking. I don't use commercial yeast, but all of the information you provided was useful. Thank you!

[@NovitaListyani]

Thank you too! Glad to read your comment.

[@rustic35]

Be careful with books these days because many amateur youtube cooks also write baking books filled with bad information.

[@AiPlus13]

Wow. What a presentation I really learned a lot. I've been watching a lot of baking vid lately and I'm so happy to discover this channel. This is on the university lectures level. I watched a lot of it during the lockdown just for a change and been a fan of Joanne Chang since then. You are now part of that list. Thank you for sharing. I'll definitely binge-watch in this channel.❤ Kudos😊

[@NovitaListyani]

Thanks

[@stealthbomba]

very underrated channel. what's not to like? beautiful ppl talking complex science terms making good looking bread.

[@RonMarotte]

Wow! Wow! Wow! This is a master's class for all bread makers. And outstanding presentation of the various components that interplay in bread making. Just sensational.

[@NovitaListyani]

Glad you enjoyed it!

[@MarissaT27]

Brava!!! I had been searching KZbin for precisely this type of information that no cookbook on baking provides. Thank you! ❤

[@xpahos]

"Handbook on Sourdough Biotechnology" by Marco Gobbetti, Michael Ganzle

[@AlkonKomm]

there is also just a very simple, pragmatic reason for using them: I can let my preferment pretty much sit around for ages until it develops a nice, boozy aroma and even if the gluten is completely gone by the time I end up using it, I will still make good bread, because only a small fraction of the flour is used for the preferment. If I cold ferment the whole thing for a long time (especially rye or anything with a high enzyme activity) you can absolutely fuck up and overdo it and by the time you want to bake your bread it is already overfermented. so I would argue preferments just give you more control over the process.

[@SanctuaryGardenLiving]

Can the missing gluten then just be replaced by swapping in a little gluten flour?

[@benjamindejonge3624]

The only logical explanation I’ve ever heard in this most frustrating and complicated matter

[@ronaldo5276]

Excellent review as always. Worth emphasizing that a huge benefit of preferments is when it comes to enriched doughs. A long fermentation will end up with a very different, less desirable chemical profile and lack any control.

[@NovitaListyani]

Indeed, having too many aroma compounds isn't necessarily a good thing.

[@leonkrug4841]

Thank you for the video! It was really informative. I always love to find people on the Internet that are intensely passionate about a topic. Don't let the negativity get to you!

[@NovitaListyani]

Thank you for your kind comment!

[@chenichi99]

Wow, these information are so comprehensive and scientific especailly presented by a young lady in 34 minutes. You really spend quite time to dig out so much information and thanks for sharing these on the KZbin channel. God bless you !

[@jackskalski3699]

Great video as usual. To be honest the levain aspect of bread baking was my Eureka moment 1 month ago. No one really spelled it out to me exactly and I was in the mindset, that well yeah there are these vague benefits but people claim they have great bread without them so in my mind it was just a recipe thing. Than I realised that this is the essence of taste and structure and all of these aromas. Than I realised there are recipes that have multi stage levains with specific tempartures in different stages just to get the right balance of microorganisms and compounds mix. Than YT notified me about your video just adding the science behind it :) Awesome and keep it up. Love your channel and also the "no BS baking" channel :)

[@jackskalski3699]

It's worth mentioning that as home bakers we are not that much confined by the economy of baking so we can have a wider playing field by experimenting with combining sourdough starter derived levains with yeasted preferments in a single recipe. Food for thought :D

[@NovitaListyani]

Thank you for sharing!

[@sergeanthorvath]

Wow, such a thorough approach to your topics. I love it. Plus I was introduced by you to something I have never heard of before, namely Yudane in bread baking. I am learning so much. Keep it up girl!

[@NovitaListyani]

Thanks!

[@Donkeyiser]

The most comprehensive video out of hundreds I've seen on this topic. I understood around 70% of it. I'd love if you could do a deep dive into what you said about flour to water ratios in levain - how can I vary those ratios to get my desired characteristics?

[@NovitaListyani]

We actually have an old video on sourdough and levain, maybe you want to check it out: kzbin.info/www/bejne/Y4XCkHd8rJKUras

[@Donkeyiser]

@@NovitaListyani Amazing! Thanks

[@TheoboldJamzen]

wow! especially thanks for the glutathione info ... been doing 100% biga-no-stress (18C 18hours) with 'poor' flour in tropics, 90F 90%Humidity ... recently tried some glutathione, not understanding it would make the poor flour weaker for pizza, and overferement fast/fall down ... now using a pinch of vitamin C powder/ascorbic acid with some better results on increasing dough strength and dough ballls for pizza ... its about balance sometimes .... expereince. thanks for sharing ur work ... Good Stuff!

[@NovitaListyani]

Glad it was helpful!

[@Osama_Abbas]

This is an underrated channel with great content. Please Novita and Seraphine, use ads to grow your channel. It really worth a try at least.

[@NovitaListyani]

Thanks for the suggestion!

[@williamfotiou7577]

Please list who underrated it. Thank you.

[@1stSchoolofLife]

KZbin's algorithm. I have been looking for a channel like this and only just discovered it.​@williamfotiou7577

[@coridaw715]

​@@williamfotiou7577I think they are saying it doesn't get the attention it deserves.

[@williamfotiou7577]

@coridaw715 attention and being underrated have 2 different connotations. But......I'm old enough to understand that. When you say " this is underrated " it's actually an insult or backhanded compliment. Can you please comment back after your 16th birthday. Thank you

[@hgwellsmin]

You compressed a week length lecture to a 30 min video. lol. I also watched those videos that claimed using preferment is not necessary for home bakers. I thought it was pretty interesting perspective, but now you convinced me that's not a good idea. Thanks for the detailed information. I'm gonna watch this video again to swallow. I'm gonna use poolish again.

[@NovitaListyani]

Glad it was helpful!

[@alexaguillon7904]

I’ve just began my pizza dough journey and I have been racking this question in my head for months now. I’m so happy I stumbled upon this video

[@Lallatwittle]

This video is how I discovered your channel and you made me an instant fan. I'm a fan of preferments, and more so always trying to learn and talk about food chemistry and food science. Next time I deal with someone on preferments, I can just link your video rather than type a wall of text! Thank you for making this video!!!!!!

[@NovitaListyani]

Thank you too!

[@Lallatwittle]

@@NovitaListyani You're welcome! You did an amazing job on this video!

[@melissamonroe561]

I'm fairly new with sourdough although I did, as a child, make yeast bread with mom. I have checked out so many channels trying 2 learn the secrets of sourdough bcuz I like the flavor & I love the idea of being that 'Baking Grandma,' lol! U have given me so much 2 think about & it may take awhile 2 sort thru things in my head but I know I'm going 2 watch more of ur channel! Thank u 4 ur research, love of baking & education of ur fellow man! U did it with dignity & class! Bravo!

[@NovitaListyani]

Thanks for sharing!!

[@brendans5567]

Quite amazing . I can only imagine how much time was involved in this presentation. Makes me feel happy I always stick with using a preferment !

[@kbrdft]

Love the content. I feel like professional bakers lack resources like this to help them hone in on their craft. There are rules of thumb and learning by experience, and countless baker influencers, but this video provides the knowledge for a baker to begin crafting their own path in a purposeful, scientific way. Much much love. No Ads please: sell me your cookbooks, online courses, and such.

[@nouvarae]

As a long time baker, I still learn so much from you! Thank you for your wonderful channel!!

[@NovitaListyani]

Thank you for your kind words!

[@equaleyez]

Thank you so much for the research and time you put in these videos. This is the best content a geeky home baker like me can wish for!

[@NovitaListyani]

Our pleasure!

[@shmulik152]

I can listen to your lectures for hours!! I make challa every friday and it comes out so good after learning so much from you.

[@NovitaListyani]

Wonderful!

[@shmulik152]

I dont use Poolish yet but i use the Yudane method and my challa comes out nice and fluffy. I will give a Poolish a try. @@NovitaListyani

[@shmulik152]

I and i am sure a lot of your viewers and fans would love to see a video of you baking a traditional Challa. Please do!! @@NovitaListyani

[@nutechservices5352]

Loving the science and logic of the process you describe in such exquisite detail! Thank you!!!

[@NovitaListyani]

Glad you liked it!

[@donforbus2826]

I’ve watched some of your videos and love the science in understanding what is happening when I make poolish, pre-forment. This video was a little over my head but I’m understanding a lot more. Thank you for sharing this wealth of information. 🌹

[@maxfigueras752]

I am fascinated by your channel, I have only seen two videos now, but each look like a project for a college thesis! I love how you make the scientific terms more approachable but not infantilize us, as if the common public wasn't able to understand 'big words', or make a google search for definitions. It's so sad that the Internet mixes people with so much talent and who make great efforts to produce quality content, and people who will not finish watching your video before spilling their thoughts mindlessly. It's something that we have to endure when we let everyone talk in any conditions 😂 Thank you very much for your educative videos, it's been an instant follow!

[@NovitaListyani]

Thank you and welcome 😊

[@sheilahtaylor3005]

I've done both! Prefermintes and overnight. PREFERMINTES MUCH BETTER!!! Such a beautiful flavor boost,simular to sour dough❤❤❤ Thanks for your expertise

[@rustic35]

One thing I've noticed while learning how to make sourdough is that most youtubers are total beginners making out to be experts. The reality is, they're just repeating the and bad information and their viewers are constantly disappointed with failure. Temperature, flour type, flour country, temperature and altitude all affect the ratios used in the dough. Just because youtube jacks flour can handle 80% hydration, your flour might only work with 73% hydration. Following jacks recipe without knowing your flours hydration limits will only result in failure. My suggestion is to avoid all the channels that hype up their baking skills and find channels that are actual bakers with years of knowledge and experience. You'll have far more success. I like this channel for the in-depth information and science behind what's going on. Without knowing the whys and how's, you're always behind the ball. Same with fermentation time. Most youtubers are telling you to wait for your sourdough to double in size. This is just wrong. In a country with a warmer climate you may only let it rise to 30%. Any more than that and you're running into over fermentation problems. In a cooler climate you may go to 50% or 60% rise. Rarely do you need to wait for a double rise in your sourdough.

[@randycummings9033]

You are my new hero. Thank you for the education!

[@randycummings9033]

To elaborate on my admiration: I bake part time for a nonprofit where the bread I bake ends up at the local Food Bank feeding seniors. I want to “meddle” with the recipe I have to bake just a bit. So I understand….I can take 25% of the total flour and water, Scald it, leave it in the fridge overnight then assemble the bread in the morning. Is this the general idea? There is also an autolyse component where I hydrate the remaining flour for an hour and a half. I think I can figure this out. If you don’t mind, I will let you know the results. (I’ve baked over 300 loaves of this recipe in the past 6 months) PS: For my on-going education, I will consume the rest of your training videos. I will be adding knowledge to knowledge to knowledge making me a better baker.

[@kayemoore]

This explains so wonderfully and thoroughly what I didn’t know I knew lol. THANK YOU for this deep dive!

[@blondeenotsomuch]

Wow. This is incredible. I wish i was more of an audible learner. I need flow charts, graphs, and ...maybe i need a book with lots of pictures because flavorful bread is a goal worth pursuing.

[@longline]

10 minutes in I am loving this, so much. Salty academic mic drop. And I'm learning nuance. I'm very happy.

[@NovitaListyani]

Great to hear!

[@Platypi007]

Just got suggested this video and you have earned a new subscriber. Bread baking and peer reviewed science and food safety and preferments? You're speaking my language!

[@lisarct1012]

Thank you! I appreciate you sharing your obviously vast knowledge and understanding. You have answered a question I had been pondering for a while.

[@NovitaListyani]

You are so welcome!

[@maxbandelli4046]

Excellent video very educational Definitely done all your research well presented Very clear precise and definition of baking is a science ,we've been doing for a long long time .compliments on your video👍

[@NovitaListyani]

Thanks for watching!

[@barrychambers4047]

Really interesting Seraphine! Thank you! Going to have to watch this one again!

[@NovitaListyani]

Glad you enjoyed it!

[@sdvcv]

I agree with your main points. Just ignore the ignorant people and let them continue with their subpar ways.

[@bcubed72]

I came to baking with a history in brewing/distilling, where it's understood you give the yeast a "head start" before adding to your wort, so that they can better out-compete any undesired yeasts or fungi. It never even occurred to me NOT to preferment!

[@NovitaListyani]

Indeed, giving the yeast a head start is crucial. Thank you very much for sharing.

[@asard4827]

Wow amazing, detailed, and very informative. Can't wait for new videos!

[@WATCHDAWG1947]

I started baking bout a month ago. I watched and listened to all this lady had to say..I didn't understand hardly any of it. I read the comments and people say wow this is just what I've been looking for..Bravo...now I get it.. I'm going to forget I even saw this and push on ward with learning the art of bread making.

[@cvan1075]

Yes begin and inch by inch your hands will teach your head what you want to know next. Bread-making is an international craft. I just wish that despite war and famine and poverty, everyone can access the flour and internet to master it.

[@anuragparcha4483]

I now feel like I have a Phd in bread baking. Wow, this video was awesome. Great work! Instantly subscribing!

[@kennethsimon960]

Thanks for your great informative video. I use preferments often and it's great to understand the science better thanks to you.

[@micheljodoin531]

Just amazing ! This is a really valuable video ! Thank you !

[@NovitaListyani]

Glad it was helpful!

[@davidclark9086]

I watched this and found it not just very well made but well documented as well and super informative. I have one question concerning moving from a quick system to using a poolish. I recently started baking 100% spelt bread but it requires 7g or 21 grams of fresh yeast which speeds the whole process up significantly. I normally finish getting it to the oven in just about 2 hours and it turns out wonderful but I want to reduce the amount of yeast using a poolish. Do you have any recommendations or suggestions on how to make the transition from lots of yeast to a little? Thanks in advance.

[@NovitaListyani]

Thank you for your comment. We haven't done that many experiments with spelt bread yet, so sorry for not to be able to help.

[@HopeLaFleur1975]

I am an avid pizza maker due to family members that do not want the commercial pizza. So this information is extremely important for me. As some of my dough never gets the results I want. I used to use poolish. Will go back💜🌹🏆🏆🏆

[@tonylamartina6729]

Wow. That was way over my head but really enjoyed it. She is obviously a science lover. 😊 Great video. Look forward to many more as a fairly new bread baker.

[@chordol]

Thanks!

[@NovitaListyani]

Thank you

[@cQ2]

Awesome, love all the explanation, lot of information is just a few minutes

[@NovitaListyani]

Glad you enjoyed it!

[@multi_misa72]

Thanks a bunch for this clear and interesting explanation. Yup, i want to re- try the poolish use but youre way.❤

[@YouTube_can_ESAD]

First time watching your channel but this episode is outstanding, thank you for your work!

[@NovitaListyani]

Glad you enjoy it!

[@dejakju]

This is such a great info on this topic, thanks for the work and sharing. Greetings.

[@EspenAndreassen77]

Awesome video as usual 🎉 Thank you for sharing your knowledge. It has to be a lot of research and work behind this… and it looks like it’s all one long take.? Very good 😊

[@NovitaListyani]

My pleasure!

[@craiglandes754]

I think a case can also be made for having a bit of OCD. 🙂I love these videos because the level of detail, research backing and factual analysis are just superb! I also happen to have this obsessive-compulsive need to understand everything, and so for me, these videos are perfect. Plus, the end results can be easily incorporated into whatever I'm making. My current learning project is all about tangzhong, which I learned all about in one of your other videos. Thank you very much for all your work!

[@NovitaListyani]

Thanks!

[@cvan1075]

Oh ! Just read the term tangzhong in Cook’s Country and now have to learn-if that is what a preferment is. I thought pre-ferment was prefer-ment

[@craiglandes754]

@@cvan1075 I, too, read it as "preferment," meaning some sort of legal issue like an access easement. LOL! And no, the tangzhong isn't the same as pre-fermenting.

[@rodneyferris4089]

This is so essential to anyone wanting to bake at home or professionally. I think that today we've even dumbed down home baking by either insisting on using commercial yeast, loading sugar to "prove" yeast that was recently purchased, or these huge videos about the making of sourdough that sounds more like a massive chemical experiment, than thinking it out by remembering the cooks of the early days of our continent and on the settling of the Plains and the West Coast who had to make their own Barm! and they didn't want to make bread that was full of holes and was so sour and "stinky" so that the kids wouldn't eat it. Your presentation make so much sense ! I've been baking for 40 years for my family and friends and I have always sought to bake the most naturally as possible. I've always had the best success by pre-fermenting my starter. I've also learned that sourdough starter is almost indestructible unless you burn it as we do in the oven... or so I thought and I've found that it doesn't really all die and there is a fermentation that keeps on going after a bread is baked. Well constructed and naturally fermented dough either with wild yeast or commercial yeast is always delicious, healthy and is almost close to hypoallergenic !

[@NovitaListyani]

Thanks for sharing. Really really appreciate your comment.

[@timtomlinson3182]

Love the detailed scientific information. Amazing job.

[@Moneyalmenial]

Casual baker here, loved the video. Praise be to the algorithm for bringing me here.

[@jzagaja]

Very high quality material, amazing author. At minute 12 we see why western style of bread is to ferment in a fridge. Despite the flavour I think fermentation is mainly to reduce phytic acid in pH around 4.5 so that we can get any good from grains. Here in Poland we are more focused on rye and ancient rye than wheat. I would go further - took grain and ferment/sprout a whole then blend (possibly in vacuum). Buckwheat sprouts very fast and it easy to blend, rye is not. Then we must add proteins and a bit dry flour to hold shape so trial and error needed. We are concerned about chemicals added to bread but wait - natural enzymes added reduces during baking to amino acids right?

[@rpeet2000]

Wow! I just found your channel- Fantastic work. I am hooked ❤

[@mosiah9205]

This is the first video I’ve seen of this channel, immediate sub. She came out SWINGING!

[@isbeb507]

wow its incredible how knowledgeable you are

[@sethyo66]

Omg, what she said😂 feel like I now have a doctorate in yeast. Very very thorough, thank you.

[@diegocampista3126]

Seraphine, is it possible we could get an explanation of the differences between wheat flours? And the ones we should avoid, if there are any. Thanks!

[@NovitaListyani]

Have you watched this video: kzbin.info/www/bejne/q3_SqXxnYs90bpo ?

[@diegocampista3126]

I have not, thank you!@@NovitaListyani

[@londobali]

Widih.. detail banget researchnya.. mantaaaappp.. following.

[@JOHNCHENSJCA]

❤ the science. Now I know why my beginner’s sourdough is not rising enough. Gotta watch this vid again. Thank you, Seraphine!

[@stauffap]

Do you have a video where you taste the different methods side by side? If not, i would obviously be very interesting in such a video. All this science is of course nice, but in the end we have to eat the products and the question arises how much of a difference it makes and if it's worth the effort. Great video! I'm very impressed that you even had the idea to look at the scientific litearature. Most people never go there.

[@dopapier]

A very intelligent and clear presentation. Thank you.

[@NovitaListyani]

Glad you enjoyed it!

[@pizzamadesimple]

RESPECT! Your assertions are correct about preferments. If you've done the work and made many mistakes, you know that it takes days to reach the same level of flavor using cold fermentation in a refrigerator as a simple overnight preferment, much less a mother dough. At our restaurant, we have the room necessary to store 5 days worth of dough during the off-season. During high season, we use a poolish mixed the night before. We only have 2-3 days worth of storage during summer and there's no way to use our off-season method.

[@NovitaListyani]

Thank you for your feedback, it's nice to have your input.

[@katielady873]

Awesome video. I definitely had to slow the playback speed because of the sheer amount of information that I need to process.

[@nicksutton6373]

Only one thing to say... Very well done and thanks!

[@whiteshadowfare]

Thank you for the wonderful information! Would love to know the benefits of a preferment along with whole wheat/grains

[@NovitaListyani]

At 11:06, and also 30:34, we discussed two papers that support our argument. From the first paper we learned that raising the fresh yeast concentration to 6% and, at the same time, lowering the temperature for the dough to ferment at 5°C would give us more aroma and flavor in the crumb, this is also supported by the study done in the second paper, but the second paper informed us that, for the crust, it was not the low temperature, it was the high temperature (32°C) paired with a high fresh yeast concentration that brings us a more pleasant flavor in the crust. The experiment in the second paper was based on whole wheat flour. So, by using a ripened preferment that has been fermented slowly at low temperatures, then incorporating it into the final dough and letting the dough ferment at 32°C, by logical speculation, this could give us both benefits. Benefiting the crumb, producing more aroma through a cold long fermentation, and also improving the crust, through the Maillard Reaction of a final dough fermented at higher temperature. Long cold fermentation does not allow the baker to do both of these techniques together.

[@danielsalcedo6373]

"Just one word: EXEMPLARY EXPERTISE. Kudos to you for providing the most instructive explanation of the processes I've come across."

[@Laurenski67]

I only clicked on this video bc I was wondering what preferments were, and they're not applicable to me as I'm not planning on baking any bread. (I thought it was about fermenting veggies like kimchi.) Wow, Novita doesn't mess around; you better know what you're talking about if you're going to challenge her 😏

[@wengkinlau9580]

Very well presented and explains a lot about bread making.

[@NovitaListyani]

Thanks for watching

[@wallstreetcrash1]

Excellent binary explanation of breadmaking . I almost feel I understand the creation of the universe lol. Thanks for posting 🙂🇬🇧👍

[@lesbutler273]

Cannot over estimate how much I love this channel. Meaning I really really love this channel. ...An average room temperature of 27-29 C? Mine is 17-19 C. So there is significant variable.

[@NovitaListyani]

thanks! Yes, indeed, the temperature here can be "very ideal" for fermentation :)

[@louiscohen]

Thanks for the great explanations. Previously, I had thought that preferments vs Long Fermentation just developed different distributions of microorganisms, but I didn't know about the room temp pathogens. I started baking with Hamelman's "Bread" and quickly found the most success with an overnight room temperature poolish for high whole grain breads. BTW, French bakers would have said "Polonaise" for Polish so the origin of "poolish" is mysterious. I resisted sourdough because it seemed too complicated. Finally, during COVID, I bought "Bittman Bread" which preaches Mark Bittman's sourdough technique. All I ever got were some very tasty frisbees. But I really wanted to use the sourdough rye chapter in "Bread"; I finally got a nice rye culture going and I make Hamelman's 100% Workday whole wheat and various ryes from "Bread" and "The Rye Baker". Nearly all of these use a levain which ferments from 12-16 hrs at room temp.

[@NovitaListyani]

From Page 42 of "Taste of Bread" by Prof. Raymond Calvel, I quote here "The poolish is a relatively liquid fermented culture, leavened with baker's yeast in advance of dough mixing and prepared with only part of the flour and water. When the dough is made, the rest of the flour, water, yeast, and salt are added, and an appropriate production schedule is then followed until the baking of the bread is completed. This method of breadmaking was first developed in Poland during the 1840s, from whence its name. It was then used in Vienna by Viennese bakers, and it was during this same period that it became known in France." The renowned Professor Raymond Calvel (1913 - 30 August 2005) was a bread expert and professor of baking at ENSMIC in Paris, France. (source: Wikipedia)

[@louiscohen]

@@NovitaListyani From en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pre-ferment "The common, but undocumented, origin given for the term poolish is that it was first used by Polish bakers around 1840, hence its name, and as a method was brought to France in the beginning of the 1920s. "Poolish" however is an old English version of "Polish", whereas the term seems to be most used in France (where "polonais" is the word for "Polish"). Some nineteenth-century sources use the homophone "pouliche", a French word that typically means a filly.[15] With either spelling, the term only appears in French sources towards the last part of the nineteenth century. There is not currently any credible explanation for the origin of the term." The origin of the term "poolish" is unknown but the attribution to Polish bakers is a widely spread invented etymology. I used an overnight poolish for yeasted breads for years before I finally got my rye sourdough culture going, and got a B & T proofer.

[@NovitaListyani]

Hmm, I remember reading that Wikipedia article, and then later on, I was somehow convinced by "Taste of Bread" by Prof. Calvel and didn't give it a much consideration, now, come to think of it, it's kind of unusual. Thank you so much for raising this issue.

[@AJBTemplar]

And this was an incredibly informative and erudite lesson. Thank you.

[@NovitaListyani]

Glad you enjoyed it!

[@fajzulin]

Wow. Amazing. Instant subscription. Thank you.

[@CherylBradley-v9d]

Awesome video! Now I know why my non sourdough bread turned out better with a poolish. I wasn’t going to have time to bake sourdough loaf , but I didn’t want to throw out half of my sourdough starter so I just used less yeast, the starter in my regular dough. I had a pleasant mistake.

[@NovitaListyani]

Wonderful!

[@patw2841]

This is awesome. ❤ smart young folks. Well done and thanks.

[@MoonFlower-won]

Wow! You earned my respect. I can't say that I retained any of that info but I'm subscribing.....and nobody ought to ever 'dis' you again!!! :)

[@NovitaListyani]

Thanks!

[@jamesgarner2103]

is there any specific changes or adjustments i would need to make when using freshly milled flour?

[@randrescastaneda]

OMG. What a fantastic explanation. Thank you so much

[@NovitaListyani]

You're very welcome!

[@canakaoglu7158]

Great, helpful content, thanks for your investigations!

[@phillipbastow8743]

I have found a person who knows what she is talking about and can help people like me to improve my bread making.

[@ryanoconnor8207]

You're amazing!!!! ❤❤❤

[@Someone-21-y]

Hi Novita, I found one of the bakers in Italy, making the whole dough ONLY by mixing 2 types of preferment, biga, and poolish (the total dough was 10Kg of flour) so, he used 3 Kg in the poolish and 7 kg of the Biga ...after pre-fermented them he just mixed them and added salt ..and that's it? what do you think about this approach, and can use it to make soft bread? may be with some Yudane as well?

[@lindaleroux4218]

I love what you do for everyone...thankyou

[@a.zavala2355]

I think this is a scientific touche'.....Well done!😊 Thank you for the lesson. I bake bread but never knew the exacting science-based data. You sure do.👍

[@NovitaListyani]

Thanks for watching!

[@vispinet]

I have a question: if I feed my sourdough starter (i feed mine with a 1:2:2 ratio) and, once it's peaked, I use it to make bread, is this considered a preferement with regard to all the benefits you say preferments have? I don't necessarily consider a starter one of the classic preferments. However, I don't understand that chemically it would be any different from a poolish. If I understood what you said, the only advantage of a levain over directly using a starter is having freedom to decide the flour type and water ratios, thus having more control over the final product...

[@NovitaListyani]

If you use part of the starter as soon as it peaks, then that is basically a levain, but if you let it sit in the fridge, for example, over night, and use it the next day, then that is clearly using it as a sourdough starter. The key difference between a levain (the equivalent of a poolish preferment when we are talking about sourdough) and a starter, as explained here at 3:45 , is that, with a levain, you are basically altering the flavor and scaling up the microorganisms, as well as ensuring that the microorganisms are in optimum condition. You may ask why we would want to do this, and the answer is: First, our starter could be too acidic, making it into levain can be an alternative approach to alter the acidity of our sourdough starter. It could also be too weak, in that case, scaling it up would make it stronger because of more active microorganisms. If you were to use the starter straight away, like using one that has sat in the fridge overnight as I mentioned before, you would have no other choice than to use your starter in whatever state it is in, and the microorganisms in the sourdough might have ended their growth phase, entering a non-active lag or even death phase, resulting in the dough taking much longer to ferment or in the worst case, resulting in extreme proteolysis. There's another issue, we don't usually keep a very large amount of starter due to the requirement of regular backsloppings, disregarding whether or not we throw away the discard, this may still result in a considerable waste of flour.

[@vispinet]

@@NovitaListyani very clear. Thank you!

[@Clewis333]

Great content. Lines up with my experience petty well. Been trying to get the taste of a 2-3 day preferment that still has good gluten structure. The struggle continues

[@garylester8621]

Holy cow, my slow brain hurts. I agree with Novita, pre ferments are much better. I have a 12 year old starter (it might be much older) It's so strong that it's scary. I'm a lucky man. Baking bread is very satisfying. 77 year old Texan here.

[@NovitaListyani]

Thanks for sharing!

[@thentil]

This was fantastic. Thank you!

[@NovitaListyani]

You're so welcome!

[@kflindahl123]

Great information and presented well indeed:) Ive been a hobby baker for some time and now im on the quest to create a bread with a thin and crispy crust. If you have any tips/ideas pls let me know. Again, great videos and pls keep making them:)

[@MLCS239]

no holds barred! preach it! this is amazing and I love it!