BMW E92 M3 - Is It Really The Last True M3?

Today we look at the E92 M3, talk about the good, the bad, Including reliability issues.. and how it compares to it's competitors in terms of price.
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[@richardw1992]

To me the E92 M3 is possibly the best looking BMW of the last 20 years, close with the Z4m coupé.

[@jonas9883]

It was peak BMW

[@AntoniusTyas]

2007 to 2011 really was the best time for sports saloon enthusiasts. At the lower-end of the market you got V8-powered E9x M3, C63 with its nuclear bomb of an engine and RS4 and RS5 with that R8 V8 engine. On the mid market we got V10 M5 E60 (with whatever nuclear problems it had but let's pretend it's not a problem), E63 with its 6.2 V8 and later the bombastic 5.5 V8 biturbo, and V10 biturbo RS6 plus the VXR8 Bathurst S. And let's not forget the S63 and S65 basically sharing the big supersaloon throne only with the Bentley Continental Flying Spur Speed. It was a great time.

[@550r]

Great time for hot hatches too, just the sheer variety of engine and driveline combinations, Golf GTi, Golf R32, BMW 130i, Audi S3, Audi A3 3.2 Quattro, Mazda 3 MPS, Alfa Romeo 147 GTA, Honda Civic Type R FN2, Astra VXR, Focus ST and RS, Volvo C30 T5, Subaru WRX STi hatch and there's probably more I'm forgetting too.

[@N54B30BMW]

I would say the 2000s were peak auto. The cars looked great, had great handling, great engines and still a lot of manual gearboxes. After that cars surely became faster but not necessarily with more feel or character.

[@obi9065]

What were your favorites from USA, UK, Italy and Japan during that period, if any?

[@AntoniusTyas]

@@obi9065 Corvette C6 ZR1, Focus RS Mk.2, Alfa 8C, Maserati Quattroporte GT S (the one James of JayEmm on Cars used to own), Aston DBS and V8 Vantage S, 430 Scuderia, 599 GTO, Panda 100HP, all Fiat 500 variants, Gallardo 570SL, Murcielago LP640 and SV, McLaren 12C, Lexus LFA and IS F, FD2-gen Civic Type R, R35 GT-R VSpec... yeah those are great times. Not to mention Mercedes-AMG SLS, Audi R8 V10 and R8 GT, and both Porsche 997.2 GT3 RS and Cayman R.

[@s.m.whiteII]

You are carrying the passion, while aimed slightly different, of the late Alain de Cadenet. R.I.P. 1945-2022

[@duck748r]

The E92 M3 and the E36 M3 IMHO are both future classics and two of the best models in the M3’s history. The E30 and E46 round out the other 2 “real” M3’s for me.

[@SupraTompan]

The only sad thing about E36, is that it is the only M3 not having wider arches compared to non-M models of E36. I'm genuinely curious why that happened.

[@duck748r]

@@SupraTompan Agreed. It was a cost cutting move based on the low sales of the E30 M3. But if you have the opportunity to drive one you’ll see why it’s now coming into its own and becoming a collector.

[@SupraTompan]

@@duck748r I had one in 2006, 3.0 -94. Awesome car.

[@simonhanlon7518]

I have the E90 and it's awesome, the best car for the money, the perfect family car. Never had an issue with mine and it's done 120,000 miles.

[@garethjones2746]

I think the E92's shape is just perfect.

[@artfazil5355]

be it in video games or real life, the exhaust note of this thing is unmistakable

[@3UZFE]

Doesn't matter if you have the fastest 335i in the world, the M3 4.0 V8 in manual or DCT is truly special and is a perfect example of everything enjoyable about a driving.

[@tonymoreton7166]

Great review Jack. I've daily driven a manual E92 Monte Carlo M3 for 13 years and 125k miles and it's a keeper. Especially in the new techno mad, hybrid EV future.

[@chiganuggoo9929]

For those saying the 'reverse lights are coming on when braking - @ 1:46 ' ...they are not - As an E92 M3 owner for 11 years now, - that's supposed to happen - part of the BFD (Brake Force Display function when braking very heavily. Watch the brake lights on the rear quarters activate first, then those activate under very heavy braking. It's in the owners manual, but plenty of questions about it on the net and owners forums.

[@TheHitmann069]

Love my E92. Yes, it's a pain in the ass sometimes, idiosyncratic and not great for the wallet, but the chassis and steering is absolutely nailed on and nothing drives or sounds like it.

[@robertbcope]

I do love my E92 M3. Fantastic motor and really quite a usable car.

[@nickH-worth1984]

A naturally aspirated V8 with a manual gearbox, so the answer is YES!

[@ralfhtg1056]

So cool to see that back then this car was still available with a manual. Nowadays the top engine variants always come with a bloody automatic transmission.

[@SicSemperBeats]

Yep and the take rate for the manual was actually high asf too. It’s very easy to find a manual e92

[@littleroller]

Yet another reivew praising this amazing car! Prices in the USA are increasing on manual E92 M3's and the driving enthusiasts are taking notice of this front V8 engine RWD timepiece. Another car we adore today that will simply be a - "I told myself I should have bought it when they were less than $50K USD."

[@SteeeveO]

59mph never sounded so good!

[@paulcruse]

Nor took so long and so many gears to get to.. 😇

[@SteeeveO]

@@paulcruse I used to have the same problem with my old 996, 4th gear, 6k rpm just to listen to the sound, but I could never get it to 60.......

[@paulcruse]

@@SteeeveO 😂 but you must never give up trying 😅

[@SteeeveO]

@@paulcruse sadly I did. Now have a Citroen that very quietly gets to 61mph.😄

[@paulcruse]

@@SteeeveO 😢

[@matthewnicholas6365]

People wrongly claimed the S54 in the E46 wasn't as high as 340hp What actually happens is that people put 95ron fuel in them, the ECU retards timing as it's crap, then eventually holds the settings regardless as to what fuel you put in. Reset the adaptations and ONLY run it on super. I bet they'll happily make the standard HP then

[@bekabeka71]

Running on super if the car is not made for it will damage the engine

[@matthewnicholas6365]

@bekabeka71 of course it ****ing won't. Who on earth told you that? And trust me, high performance cars for decades have been set up to only ever make their peak HP on the highest grade pump fuel you can use.

[@allanprits3484]

​@@matthewnicholas6365 Elvis told him while remapping his n/a Corsa

[@gianniarduini3644]

In my s54 I’m tuned for 94 octane if I put anything less than that trust me I feel it

[@matthewnicholas6365]

@@gianniarduini3644 I had a 90s MR2 turbo. Japanese fuel is all good. When they came to the UK, if you didn't put super in, they used to knock so hard it would break the knock sensors 🤣

[@simonhodgetts6530]

I had the ‘cooking’ 320 version of the E92 coupe - it was a lovely, lovely car. Graphite grey with a coral red leather interior. I really liked this era of BMWs - just before they got ugly and over complicated. The build quality was utterly superb.

[@IOSALive]

Number 27, I loved this video so much, I had to hit the like button!

[@mulletmanpete]

I've had a 2013 E92 for 5 years now. One of the very last ones produced, one previous owner who ticked pretty much every option. I originally wanted a manual but ended up with DCT and haven't regretted it for a single second. Before that I was in a B7 RS4 for 8 years and absolutely loved it. Just the perfect blend of practicality and performance for our Cornish roads. But eventually I had to scratch the M3 itch! Fortunately for me, neither car has so far suffered any of the common problems you read and hear about. They are very different animals for obvious reasons but I'd love to be able to afford to run one of each.

[@simonh870]

Proper car, gorgeous engine and none of that Auto/DCT/SMG gearbox nonsense.

[@madhunter6420]

the auto of e92 is a dct lmao

[@StephenBaysted]

Great review as always. It certainly didn’t sound like that when I recorded one for a video game in Munich back in 2007.

[@dadcars]

You captured the sound of this perfectly at the start 👌😮‍💨 I’ve always lusted over one of these

[@geoffclarke3796]

Great review Jack. I also own a 57 plate manual E92 M3 with EDC. Have had it 9 months and love it, especially that mega V8. I did consider a C63 AMG which is a real muscle car but felt the E92 M3 was more of a drivers car and the RS4 is certainly desirable but all the weight up the front tends to mean too much understeer.

[@karlfontanari2169]

Great review, and had one in black and manual in 2008 to 2010, only reason sold it was putting 30K miles a year on it sound great and went really well.

[@ryanmccormick2150]

I always yearned for an M3.... just fantastic cars, cracking stuff as always jack buddy 👏

[@alaricbragg7843]

Thank you for this video! Very interesting car and history.

[@freerkderuiter8822]

Lovely. I have been daily driving an E92 for the last twelve years and hope to keep it for a good while to come.

[@ca9968]

I got to drive a few of these when I used to sell cars in Johannesburg, I found the DCT gearbox the better one to use, that engine and gearbox were such a perfect pairing!

[@simonhjc]

Great review as always. You mentioned the bearings etc. the merc amg63s we get through the auction room at about 100,000km the camshafts wear and in some cases the lobes are round. Again its spot on re warming up before giving them a squirt

[@johnosullivan2017]

Especially important for a direct injection V8!

[@costelloandsilke7321]

As a former owner, Jack - well summed up. Their fuel consumption is absolutely ruinous if you drive them in their power band. And if you don't they really have a bit of that Honda S2000 no torque sensation. They are heavy, the steering is a bit dead and the brakes are rubbish. Oh, and the gearchange is ponderous. On the right day on the right road they are brilliant but most days...

[@2702simmo]

Had mine 15 weeks and spent 13 of those trying to sell it. Just wasn’t for me

[@incognito96]

Thank you I had one, the balance brilliant, other than that an overrated money pit that drinks fuel and gearbox can't be rushed , it was rubbish.

[@Kekoki143]

The tired narrative of them being heavy was valid when they came out but reciting now is laughable. They weigh less than the new M2 for god sake. 🤣

[@ameerbava3170]

Agreed … had a e90 expenses were ridiculous.. but the sound was well worth it

[@user-hg5qv8xs4s]

That was me struggling uphill on the bicycle ! I do follow your reviews (& like that road), especially when there's an Alfa

[@NeoNeko99]

I love mine - I've had it for coming up to 6 years, and - all being well - never plan on selling it. Supercharging it made it even more special 😄

[@WFOSA67]

Love these still! Had one when they were current with the extortionate M-Performance exhaust that sounded absolutely fantastic🎉

[@mib1031]

I have the e93 with some light mods (KW springs, engine and dct tune) and yes the engine is sublime (cat delete too). With the roof coming down it does add 200kg!!! But I consider it a GT, so I’m fine with that

[@gazcolman9184]

01:46 The reverse lights are coming on with the brake lights. Best let the owner know Jack.

[@chiganuggoo9929]

As an E92 M3 owner for 11 years now, I hate to correct you when you're trying to help - but that's supposed to happen - part of the BFD (Brake Force Display function when braking very heavily. Watch the brake lights on the rear quarters activate first, then those activate under very heavy braking.

[@gazcolman9184]

@chiganuggoo9929 Yeah, I've seen BMWs have that, didn't know it was called bfd. Reading up on it now, it shouldn't light up reverse lights, only secondary brake lights or fog lights, depending on model. Sometimes the lights can pulse too. I'm wondering if he has a bad earth or wrong bulbs in, double filament where it should be single and its gone a bit wonky. I guess it could also be light bleed into the reverse light cavity?

[@chiganuggoo9929]

@@gazcolman9184 the video makes it look white but it's actually red in real life... these are pre LCI lights as well.

[@dantheman7357]

Thanks Jack for the great review. It reminded me so much of my beloved 2005 330i-MSport 6-speed. I didn't have the same power but the driving experience was very similar if you drove it assertively. I miss the car so much and I should never have sold it. Car guys just have to move on to the next one I guess [like you] .

[@wiggi1968]

Wow, that sound brings a tear to my eyes 😊

[@adrianmonk4440]

I was at Nick's Pizzeria in West Houston. I met this Major Dude with an M5 V-10, with a freaking Heads Up projection display on the Windshield. He invites me in, & fires HIS BEAST UP. We both are talking enthusiastically about his wonder of automotive technocracy. I HAD TO ASK, "What is the Miles Per Gallon ?" He says, "11mpg, and yeah, you can actually see the needle move." 😮 Seriously, I am happy for guys like him and guys that own AMG, V-8, Bi-Turbos. But DEFINITELY too rich for me. I also enjoy the rarefied presentations of Iain Tyrrell on YT. WOW !

[@Fastmatt613]

I have a supercharged E90 M3 and the supercharger really gives it what it was missing. Still feels stock down low in the rpm range but gets going when you want it to. Great car for sure

[@antecalic8881]

My favourite M3 probably. Melbourne red E90 with black interior, flat dashboard and a sunroof. Who are they kidding with a carbon fibre roof on a 1.7 ton car. It’s all about induction noise, and working the engine with the 6 speed. Great review!

[@GRfourfun]

You mention the Lexus IS-F, I’ve had two and considered the M3 before buying my first. The video on YT of an M3 blowing up racing a white IS-F sealed the deal for me. The M3 is the better drivers car but the IS-F will do 200k to 300k with no issues without opening up the engine.

[@dinkyduffy4458]

Excellent review

[@alexwalsh31]

Absolute cracking review mate, always a bit dubios watching these, as it's one car im truly obsessed with! I tend to get annoyed when people talk c@#p or mis-quote information. But a bloody cracking review.

[@josephkelly4893]

Absolutely love the e92. Have an e92 335i myself, it’s a forever car, would love to compliment it with a M3 one day

[@michaelmccann4706]

Nice one. Thank you No.27

[@D4Z3Dii]

Identical to mine :). The manuals are a bit lighter than the DSG's also, 1580kg, no lightweight but not especially heavy either, especially compared to modern cars.

[@m3ooyay]

Jack great video, let me know if you want a drive in my E46 M3 - Anytime Sir!

[@Anders_HeymSR30]

Best sounding M3 for sure, even better with the 2 pipe modification or in this case the aftermarket back boxes. Miss mine, E92 M3 with Competition package in Ruby black and individual full rust brown leather

[@2702simmo]

Standard they sound boring and quiet , inductions good but the exhaust isn’t . They need modifying to release the noise

[@James-ld2jc]

Enjoyed that. Nice looking car...

[@williamegler8771]

Since the original M3 was powered by a 4cyl with a manual transmission exclusively and had minimal creature comforts isn't it the last true M3?

[@matthewnicholas6365]

The E30 was a homologation car too. Nome of the rest have been actual race cars. Or at least, built to go racing.

[@simplevoicereviewssvr6418]

​@@matthewnicholas6365 E46 was

[@elliottharley1386]

Arguably the E30 is the oddity in the line up. Of its time and a shame they're so stupidly over priced today

[@steventurner-zc7ts]

No mate

[@876yuugt]

100%. It's the only sports car. The rest are GTs. It also had the stiffest unibody chassis until this E92.

[@Peter-MH]

Great looking cars! I had an E92 330d back in the day, but had to replace 6 wheels in less than 3 years due to cracks and buckles from potholes & the rears were £550 each! Not sure if the M3 wheels are as easily damaged, but avoid potholes!

[@redsidebiker]

M spec Beemers have always been top end power in my experience Jack. I've wanted almost every non turbo version (and got scammed on an E92 a couple of years ago). Look at Becky Evans' channel for more on one of these, she's got one. DCT is a set price swap out (done on telly). These cars were built to expensively fail. We've had 3 BMWs, no issues (ABS pump aside on our X5), but the way that I use cars, never another BMW again. A good one is great, poor ones make some of your projects look affordable!?). Alfa vs BMW? Alf and recovery for me please (I've had a couple 20+ years ago). Good work Jack.

[@gregs8685]

I had one and wish I kept it. It was an amazing car. Best M3 for me, hands down.

[@squidbilly9359]

I sold my E92 M3 after 5 years of ownership last November and replaced the car with a 20 Reg M2 Comp. Absolutely thrilled to bits with the M2 but I'm not going to lie Jack, your video made me miss that S65 so much! 🥲

[@RickCT2000]

Maybe your best review - technically and emotionally ❤️

[@johncreedon7847]

Had 2 over 8 years. Amazing cars, drive a giulia quadrifoglio now and despite being a quicker car I will always miss the screaming NA S65 V8 at 8300 rpm..nice road BTW. Harrys old haunt !

[@JohnChester-lk4ly]

Great review, if you like the E92 M3 V8 but don’t like the cars weight you should try my 1M V8 it’s around 100kg lighter than the E92 M3 and with the shorter chassis it’s just a match made in heaven..

[@jbu999]

That sound ❤

[@BorehammerDrive]

One of the key benefits of M3, compared to working class models, is the limited-slip-differential. I have an E90 325i and you have to absolutely flick it in to corner to have some rotation despite it would got enough power.

[@eric-wb7gj]

TY Jack! 🙏🙏

[@thomasbell6655]

Sounds amazing

[@romainm8749]

Once again, the conception of the air intake and the fact that it's a NA engine makes that the real power produced in real conditions (meaning with a massive 200+kph air flow) is in fact about 420hp.

[@andrewhenderson5645]

Had a DCT one for 2 years. I’m a manual man but the DCT suits this engine better no doubt. Fuel costs were pretty horrific - a gentle motorway run would see 26MPG. 14 - 18MPG is the norm. Absolutely loved it and will probably have another once I have got an M2 Comp out of my system.

[@petyrkowalski9887]

I owned the 335ci version and it was amazing… more torquey and useable than the M3 version and pretty much as fast.

[@kofnc]

M3 was not meant to fight against the IS-F as the IS-F was never planned when the 07 Lexus IS was on the drawing board. The IS-F exist because engineers worked in the back and after they got the green light for production.

[@GRfourfun]

Spot on.

[@GenosisDX]

Oh I love this car!! I was a die hard fan of BMW!

[@markflyer]

I had an E92 M3, sold it to fund my youngest’s karting habit. Brilliant cars,I’ll have another at some point. Mine was a high mile daily and I loved it to bits, felt special every time you got in it it also showed 428hp with induction and exhaust mods on the dyno (all dynos are different I know) even with 165k on it. Much as the C63 is a nice car with a great engine it’s nowhere near as special. To address the rod bearing stuff,I had the originals changed at 160k ish and they didn’t need doing. A well looked after car rather than a low mileage thrashed one is the one to buy.

[@deol1]

what year was your M3?

[@markflyer]

@@deol1 2007 dealer launch car

[@Wargasm54]

I’m an AMG guy. But I’ve been known to have a wandering eye. The M3, especially the E46, has always had the potential to be the other woman. Just brilliant cars. They appeal to my adventurous spirit. But the AMG has always satisfied my caveman brain and my American need for a big motor and crazy power. I may buy an M3 one day. Just a great looking car. 👍🏻

[@johnosullivan2017]

With ya; love the burble and torque from yank and merc v8s...

[@737Adventures]

And I think the lack of torque is a good thing along with the linear power delivery, makes it very controllable

[@Jim-hm7fb]

1:40 - Bullet Mustang soundtrack.

[@mkadair]

Sounds great!

[@macstar8317]

Nice review. For me the E46 is the best M3 overall closely followed by the E92. Still, i wouldn't swap my tuned S5 for either!

[@Birmingham_racing]

Never used to like this at the start but Chris Harris changed my mind

[@georgebettiol8338]

I like the E92 M3, although my preference is for the older E46 M3. However, my bug bare is the the very poor quality BMW plastics and rubber components - which has also afflicted VW/AUDI and Mercedes of the same era. What a shame.

[@2702simmo]

I went from E46 m3 to the E90 and regretted it and pretty much hated it for the 15 weeks I owned it I think I’d like it more now that I’ve had a break

[@exgtt2061]

This and the RS4 v8’s are marvels, give me a big ole yank/Merc V8 for the road however.

[@rolfsvensson5777]

No insult but you looked scared there on the twisted road! Too much of a car Nice pull! Hey you had fun there! Me to! Love your videos!

[@737Adventures]

Everyone dissing the dct, but the dct is just superior and is a match for the engine.

[@dan3092]

Noughties M Power / M Sport models manual Blue Chip Buys

[@andrewellis5092]

I’ve always thought that this looks like a properly designed coupe, unlike predecessors that looked like modded 2 door saloons. Personal taste thing I guess.

[@TassieLorenzo]

Could some of the engine failures be attributed to people replacing rod bearings "one size fits all" without measuring the journals and, often, using ARP rod studs instead of OEM bolts without accounting for how studs ovalise the big ends unless it's line honed? Would these engines survive just fine if they didn't do anything to them? But then the engine from M539 Restorations failed with the factory OE parts in it IIRC, so I dunno.

[@jimamizzi1]

My brother has a 2016 M4 competition, this thing is a rocket, any you guys been in one ? Of memory it has a 3.0L twin turbo 6

[@samcourt6228]

The S65 is an incredible engine, yes it has its issues but my god the noise is incredible. Biggest issue with the E92 is the seating position which is just too high. It drove me up the wall in mine. Personally I think the E90 is way cooler and has much better rear arches. Don’t forget the Lexus IS-F as a competitor as well.

[@AREA_RC-51]

2:20... makes me nostalgic for a time when the automakers INCREASED engine size and added cylinders to compete... now everyone just has to shut up and accept a POS 1 liter turbo grenade.... SMH.

[@steliosdesypris661]

Are you testing in Harry's Metcalf bit of roads?

[@ravss4594]

I daily drive my F82 M4 Comp. Leave it on Sport Plus all the time. A bit too powerful for public roads

[@dano_8250]

Would have an ISF over one of these, any day of the week

[@sputumtube]

I'd love to see a review of the comparable Audi RS4....

[@JamesGadbury]

So would I. I understand that the B7 RS4 is one of Audi's best.

[@danbrown4517]

Sorry Jack, did you mean the issues with throttle actuators or VANOS VVT actuators on this engine?

[@Number27]

throttle actuators...

[@GetUpFalcon]

According to Ben Collins, its also the first!

[@CherylCold]

Love manual cars

[@gianniarduini3644]

15-25 lol In Canada they go for 35k beat up and 50k good shape

[@christophejergales7852]

It's the only M3 I'd buy.

[@herme99]

Competition White owner here 😎

[@In_memory_of_Dad]

You do like to kill that 2nd gear Jack!!! 😂

[@1240enzo]

For me, as I am no fan of V8s, the perfect M3 is in fact the E46, be it the standard or alternatively the CSL version. Alas my budget doesn’t remotely extend to such cars and my bog standard E90 323i sedan will have to suffice. A E46 330 CI coupe or convertible would be nice if I could afford one. In terms of a modern equivalent to these, I am partial to a 428-435 coupe but they too remain totally out of reach. Oh well that’s life.

[@MrCarrera28]

I reflect that with the extra weight, particularly in the four door version, the E92 made the transition to a "Sporting Saloon" rather then the "Sports Saloon" that the original was. In terms of wheelbase, exterior dimensions and weight this is closer to an E34 M5. This is by no means a criticism, simply an observation that it had matured and become a little less focused and more refined without sacrificing all of its character. Where previously many cross shopped an M3 with a 911, and recognised the value in the Bavarian, this generation was bought by many who already had a 911 (often air cooled) and who bought the M3 as a daily/family car that was not boring but also not as tiring in traffic as a more focused sports car.

[@SicSemperBeats]

The sedan was actually a bit lighter than the e92 coupe

[@MrCarrera28]

@@SicSemperBeats Are you sure? I thought the official weights for the manual European version were 1,580kg for the Coupe and 1,605kg for the Sedan. Either way its weight and size is closer to a E34 M5 than the original M3 and the M3 which started out as lighter than a 964 was now considerably heavier than a 997.

[@SicSemperBeats]

@@MrCarrera28 Yea im 100%. The sedan os lighter by like 35-40lbs in every equipment spec ceteris paribus

[@MrCarrera28]

@@SicSemperBeats The original 2007 M3 Sedan was lighter than the 2007 M3 Coupe (1,605kg v. 1,655kg) however the updated 2010 version was heavier (1,680 v. 1,655kg). The CRT sedan had the same weight as the coupe but was limited edition and more expensive. Reading BMW forums the consensus amongst owners is that the Coupe had better weight distribution.

[@MariuszCzerniewicz]

I have 911 997 and M3 e92 is a keeper. Just sayin.

[@johnosullivan2017]

Is the E92 V8 flat or cross plane? Sounds like an Italian flat plane to me. Flat plane would explain the lack of torque. Yes, Merc's M156 6.2 is torquier, but you still need 4K revs for peak torque to arrive. Direct injection TTV8s deliver peak torque much earlier eg I get 800nm at 2K revs from my M278 TTV8 with stage 1 map.

[@rgm33]

It's a crossplane crankshaft

[@DaleSteel]

Nobody prefers the standard suspension. The fact that EDC cars go for considerably more money should tell you all you need to know regards suspension

[@lauriebrooking2429]

For the money buy an f80/F82. At 15-20k I think these are expensive. I have had an e46, e92 and now a manual F82. The F82 is winning on every level for me, except maybe steering feel and noise which aren't always as important as is made out.