Lab Notes - Fundamental Mechanistic Insight and New Catalysts for Making Sodium - Nov 30th 2018

[@Eric_Pham]

Your sodium production videos are some of the greatest science videos I've ever scene

[@zachheilman784]

Thanks for the look into the less flashy but IMO more awesome side of doing chemistry!

[@hikingpete]

This series has been going for what? A year? Somehow these videos keep getting more and more exciting. I never would have imagined I'd find Sodium so interesting. Congratulations once again on your continuing triumph.

[@PyroDesu]

We're getting to watch scientific discovery in action. It's incredible, and naturally getting more exciting as he progresses.

[@NurdRage]

I'm a moron :) anyway, major apologies for taking so long, but at 33 minutes you can see where the extra work went.

[@gabewrsewell]

mate, no need for apologies, lots of us love these massive videos. it's approaching podcast territory now :)

[@askquestionstrythings]

I wish I had your command of chemical processes. The more you talk about it, the slightly closer I get to knowing something more than 2000 level undergrad chemistry. I truly appreciate that. It also helps me understand some of the processes in developing a working hypothesis of how a chemistry processes actually happens.

[@ProfaneGod]

no need to apologise for anything n remember nothing ever goes according to plan how else would we discover things

[@temptorsent]

Huh, I guess that makes me a moron too! After your previous video, I took a look at the structure of camphor and borneol and started to reply it might be worth trying, then thought to myself 'nah, it couldn't be that simple...' and hit the cancel button. *facepalm*

[@ergohack]

I think I prefer watching these labnotes videos to the finished product.

[@roquri]

Don't apologize for a video series being long. It's rather fascinating to me. Chemistry was not my field of study, though with the bit I've been learning, I kind of wish it would have been.

[@user-ko7lz3kr1d]

You can always learn about it in your free time. Look at how much NurdRage did at home; if you study online for long enough you may be able to do the same.

[@Cotonou1331]

This is the best chemistry channel on KZbin by a substantial margin.

[@Gameboygenius]

Pewdiepie is now a meme channel and NurdRage is now a sodium production channel. What a time to be a live.

[@seanwalton6208]

Absolutely brilliant. Some may ask why spend so much time on a single topic. Unlike someone's piranha solution experiments, this was not a frivolous toy but real research. Nurdrage, I am impressed.

[@ScrapScience]

I'd be perfectly happy to watch 100 more of these lab notes videos before the final tutorial. This whole series is absolutely captivating.

[@Woloszow]

This series has great value, not just because new discoveries. It has value of showing how proper research looks like. I would strongly recommend to anyone to wants to do science. You try existing solutions, you try to understand how they work, then after literature research you have new hypothesis, which you test in actual experiment, having results of experiment you exclude bad ideas, you rethink everything again, then you test new hypothesis and so on, great work.

[@sting2071232]

God, do not apologize for further refining your process. It is fascinating to see your experiments. I would say this is the most actual science that I have actually seen. It is exciting.

[@HgEuAaVrEdN]

Awesome I'm no chemist but the problem solving aspect of your lab notes series is amazing and inspiring. Good job and good luck!

[@moogyboy6]

You know, there is something rather amazing about watching true science unfolding before my eyes. This series is undoubtedly your best ever, Nurdrage's second symphony as it were (pyramethamine synthesis being the first).

[@KeithYipKW]

4:50 There was still a possibility that the bug catalyzed the reaction. The reaction went through a different path.

[@edgeeffect]

@@JackHudler He does have a terrible problem with lab bugs.

[@Killercreek]

It's a spider

[@drrrrockzo]

Maybe the elves put it there

[@austin503]

So his reaction was bugged

[@bangbangliu2146]

@@edgeeffect gARY whY

[@wyattbrooks9933]

This sodium series is the lesson in research and experimentation my teachers thought they were giving but never stuck with anyone. I honestly appreciate this look into the actual process of a seasoned scientist testing theories and making progress. Thanks NR for all the hard work :)

[@costa_marco]

Don't ask for forgiveness, just seeing your thought process is worth all the time. I thank you for this amazing series of videos.

[@draenthor]

This is without a doubt my favorite series on KZbin, don't feel rushed into making a final tutorial video. I'm sure many people would much rather wait to see if the process could be further improved.

[@sonicthehedshot9789]

New discoveries are fun to watch. It's like a let's play but with chemistry. The rollercoaster fails and successes is something I don't thing any other chemistry youtuber as shown. This is real science. Not the let's make this thing that I know works and is cool. This series is true science. Keep it going.

[@matthewdockter2424]

I don't care if you delay other things, as long as you have stuff happening. I haven't found anything you've done uninteresting...really I'm just living vicariously through your videos. Keep any of them coming!

[@MoleculedMan]

I love the more theoretic approach to solving the catalyst problem. Borneol giving 87% yield in ~10 hours is absolutely stunning and actually made me “wow” out loud. Great work Nurdrage.

[@gjg3783]

I let out an audible "gasp" when you got ~90% yield with friggin secondary alcohols! Great work!!!

[@edgeeffect]

Especially as it was something as easy to get as Menthol... I'VE even got a bag of that kicking around somewhere.

[@oscill8ocelot]

This is probably my favorite video of yours, because it goes so deep into the mind of an active working chemist. Thank you for sharing your brain with us!

[@nrobertoperez]

Hey, don't apologize for doing science, man. Yes, a final video would be nice, but honestly, the breakthroughs and new discoveries are much more interesting! And I can tell you really geek out about it, too, which is exciting to watch since it comes across in your videos. This whole project has been fascinating to watch and it makes my patreon contribution very worth it.

[@utsuhoreiuji6155]

Commin at the third minute! Edit: this is purely brilliant as watching the process step by step over 7 month, showing how complicate and how much was actually involved in designing a new pathway. Cheer for the success!

[@Nerdule]

Oh man, that's pretty fantastic - it's awesome that something as cheap and accessible as _menthol_ works so well (and leaves my sodium minty fresh!) I've been utterly fascinated by this whole video series, right from the start when you showed the making of sodium with the flaming-tin-can approach. But watching the process of real science going on, documented in a way that makes it accessible to a non-chemist like myself, has been especially wonderful to watch. Honestly, this is just making me try and come up with some reason to need sodium just so I have an excuse to try this out. Maybe I'll decide to start an element collection. ; )

[@alexpotts6520]

The thing is, if you just need sodium it can be bought directly, much more easily than most of these niche alcohol catalysts. Still, making your own is very cool, and it's great to see that it has finally been brought into the range of the amateur.

[@thanasispapoutsidakis9950]

I'll probably use it to make a huge load of concentrated hydrogen peroxide which is difficult to get in my area.

[@Eric_Pham]

How much sodium do you have after all this experimentation?

[@PerspectiveEngineer]

Pay attention, watch the other videos. Do not try at home. Obviously

[@custos3249]

You'd think he'd eventually say, but Na.

[@edgeeffect]

Must be getting to be quite a pile by now,

[@shutereye2634]

he should toss it into water for new years

[@texasdeeslinglead2401]

It's a bit over a little and a little under alot, so a wee more than a little pinch over a dab.

[@edgeeffect]

This series is one of the best things I've seen on KZbin. A lot of the organic stuff is over my understanding-horizon but enough of it is within my sight to get a view of how chemistry research works.

[@-vermin-]

This series continues to be an amazing journey of reasoning, measurement and discovery. Well done.

[@bkboggy]

I am not a Chemist, I haven't done Chemistry for almost 20 years, I have no interest in doing Chemistry... and yet I am addicted to your videos. I'm really fascinated with your work -- keep it up!

[@Gh0stwheel84]

Please publish this when you've worked out the alcohol catalyst method! Dude, you're showing that it's possible to contribute to brand new understandings of chemical processes using household chemicals and (relatively) simple equipment. Who knows how this might inspire some future material scientist, maybe defining this process leads to a breakthrough moment for some different project.

[@TrabberShir]

Lab notes has taken your channel from a great KZbin channel, to one of my favorite KZbin channels.

[@atonyb2575]

It worked very well with Menthol. Thank you very much for your work and videos!!!

[@icondonnied]

I'm not even an amateur chemist and I find these videos interesting. The best part is that I sort of understand the process and the mechanisms involved now. I really enjoyed this video because it's about solving the problem, and the steps you take to do so. Will I ever have a collection of glassware and a hotplate? No. But I will thoroughly enjoy watching Dr. Nurd-NSM (not somuch moron) solve the next problem or test the next theory. And hopefully I will understand it a little bit at the end..... Thanks for doing what you are doing!

[@kevinmartin7760]

You might be able to test the MgO residue for trapped catalyst.

[@T3sl4]

Right, should be easy enough with a thorough washing, then calcining (destructive / dry distillation) to see what comes off. Would also be interested to know sodium and hydroxyl content, or crystallography, or particle size, or something. Send a sample out for xray diffraction and fluorescence analyses?

[@mikeguitar9769]

MgO + 2 HCl → MgCl2 + H2O

[@PCSoftware]

Underrated comment.

[@kevinmartin7760]

@@mikeguitar9769 That's more what I had in mind than calcining, where I suspect the heat would transform the distillate beyond recognition. The acid might react with the alcohol that you suspect is trapped in the MgO, but that would yield a predictable product.

[@mikeguitar9769]

@@kevinmartin7760 That's exactly what I was thinking too.

[@T.Transmutations]

Excellent video! Just a B.Sc chem here and this is some of the best science I've ever seen come off KZbin.

[@pseudomemes5267]

Wow, I wonder if the "Due to potentially dangerous misuse of this ingredient" part was referring to your video in a tongue and cheek way. Edit: They must have seen an unusual uptick in sales for that one product and googled it to find your video

[@ayrendraganas8686]

I believe it was some concerned idiot who thought "oh noooo! the terrorists could build bombs with this" not knowing that things like fertilizer are a thing.

[@CatboyChemicalSociety]

@@ayrendraganas8686 if I wanted to make bombs i can go to any supermarket buy some hexamine and start from there!! if som1 wants to blow things up they can literally start from anything!

[@MandrakeFernflower]

It's also possible peope were adding it to there hash oil

[@pseudomemes5267]

@@MandrakeFernflower For what purpose?

[@JuryDutySummons]

@@CatboyChemicalSociety This is the FBI, stay right where you are!

[@SuperKillerkarnickel]

Some compounds can be bought in the artist and painters supply shops. Terpineol is used in a pure form for thickfilm technology to set thixotropy and is also used for paints. Thymol, TMDD (tenside) and Texanol are also alcohols. The price can be low but those compounds are not that wide spread. However, artist supply shops might have them.

[@lexer_]

This is so awesome. This payoff after all this time is so impressive it's probably hard to find a better example of how incredibly powerful a scientific mindset and strong persistence can be. I love the research progress itself in your videos the most. If one really wanted to it wouldn't be hard to puzzle out the process from the lab notes anyway.

[@AguaFluorida]

Menthol works! MENTHOL WORKS!! What would a mixture of borneol and menthol do in terms of yield and reaction time? Cyclohexanol was among my thoughts on this matter as well.

[@Nerdule]

Seriously, *menthol.* After all the exotic alcohols being tried, you get 90% yield from something you can buy off Amazon in kilogram quantities.

[@rougenaxela]

Wow! Thanks for your work on this. It's kind of inspiring to see how gaining a better understanding of the reaction mechanisms can lead to overturning some past assumptions about the catalyst criteria

[@3er24t4g1]

NurdRage will not be sent to gulag. He is the peoples chemist

[@ElementalMaker]

Absolutely beautifully done Nurdrage!

[@ericmueller6836]

So glad I was part of the FOMO crowd at PA. The borneol will hit their restricted list next. I better start stocking up on Vicks.

[@rylangel]

I hope you DO find other discoveries! It makes the entire process just that much more interesting

[@StreuB1]

It's not time to release "The Final Video" until all the research is complete OR until you are prepared to say "This is as good as we're going to get and I'm tired/bored." This was one of the most epic videos I have watched. While it's far beyond my basic understanding of chemistry, I felt like I was part of the discovery the way you produced these videos and continuously included all of us as if we were part of it. I have become a Patron now for your channel (I am only a Patron to Big Clive before this) because I now see how fundamentally important your work is and how beneficial it is for people out here watching it. Through your video's, it is not impossible to believe that you have steered others down the pathway of science which is something the world needs far more of. We need more thinkers AND doers out there and we are lacking in those areas. I would encourage all of my peers here to dig deep and even if only for a limited time, at least donate $1 to NurdRage. It is honestly an investment in the future, I really honestly believe it is. Thank you NurdRage, you are doing important work here.

[@codycall6513]

One of the best videos yet. By far the best chem channel out there.

[@garrettlines6628]

I remember when I saw the first of your lab note videos. I said then that it was my favourite type video. In my opinion, this video, as I post this comment, is so far, the best KZbinr original video, of that type I have ever seen!

[@SarafanUnin]

Your two T-rex analogy is the single best explanation of steric effects I've ever heard.

[@5h4yn3]

Btw that linalool is not available because that is one of the many terpenes people are adding to those THC vape cartridges for flavor.

[@MCPicoli]

Best half hour spent watching KZbin in many years.

[@andrewred323]

It would be cool for you to make your months of hard work into something worthy of being published. This is a great series!!!!! Take your time, we'll all wait patiently for content if it's as great as the stuff you put out.

[@frollard]

Phenomenal as always. Dunning Kruger wouldn't work if we all knew everything. Awesome progress/process.

[@andrewhawkins6754]

With all the alcohols he's been looking at, it should be phemonenol :D

[@frollard]

@@andrewhawkins6754 I was trying to think how to make that joke. Well done

[@AguaFluorida]

@@frollard phenomenol is presumably the enol form of phenomanal. Let's not go there.

[@xdoods]

This episode was fantastic. I love how technical, yet approachable, it was, and it truly felt like an achievement.

[@bormisha]

Your chemistry videos are really, really wonderful! It's so amazing to observe the real science being made on the screen! Thanks for making it and spending your precious time and all the best with your research!

[@JR737400]

I've watched your videos for years, and I think this is the best I've seen. Awesome job!

[@Revlemmon]

New discoveries are what makes science interesting.

[@haydenmcalister3092]

Absolutely brilliant series, some of the best science I've seen. Completely in awe with your efforts

[@Inuyasha10121]

This video series has been, hands down, one of the most informative and interesting chemistry video sets I've seen on the internet. Its incredible to see someone with such a passion for chemistry work so fervently on improving something for the citizen scientist, logging all the "grunt work" to show what it takes to be a chemist, and then delving into the depths of mechanistic analysis to talk about "this is how we know what is going on," something that I'm currently taking a graduate class and that is "normally off limits" to even undergraduate chemists. The demonstration of the utility of a developed mechanism to design high-impact experiments is also a wonderful example of "strong inference" problem solving, designing the simplest experiment to blow as many mechanisms as you can out of the water, something that is sorely lacking in even the professional scientific field. You should seriously consider a publication from this, perhaps even a J. Chem. Ed. publication to demonstrate in a student lab setting how you can apply these sorts of thinking, though I recognize the arena of publication is usually a walled garden exclusive to academic institutions. Seriously, kudos. As an aside, I see a few sources of Cyclohexanol and Inositol on eBay (though I'm in the states). Perhaps you could source it there to round out the publication?

[@david2ljdavid2lj56]

Dont be sorry, I appreciate all the work you are putting into this and really enjoy the videos.

[@drrrrockzo]

This series has been absolutely incredible...im so glad a stumbled across it. If you do decide to write a paper and submit it for peer review, please publish a copy somewhere without a paywall so everyone can learn from your experience.

[@pamersiel]

Incredible! Every turn of this rabbit hole opens more and more fantastic worlds. And proper using of own limitations is definitely a hearth of any science, engineering and art.

[@wolvenar]

Hey, if this is your idea of annoying.. I'm more than happy to deal with "annoying"!

[@randomng2588]

I think alcohol acidity might also play a role deciding a good catalyst, since it's well known tertiary alcohols are generally less acid than secondary alcohols. If the alcohol is more acid, the Na-O bond will form faster on the first step, but it'll require more energy to break up in the second step. If the alcohol is less acid, the Na-O bond forms slower but it'll require less energy in the second step. If this hypothesis is correct: 1. Using alcohols with lower pKa makes the first step faster, but the second step slower. 2. Currently the step limiting the reaction speed is the second, so higher pKa = better. 3. If you add more energy to the system the reaction will go faster due to the second step, so non-optimal catalysts become more viable under higher temperatures.

[@JohnLeePettimoreIII]

I have REALLY enjoyed watching this process unfolding before me. It amazes me.

[@kenoplaines]

You are the best KZbinr and inspired me to start studying science:)

[@NurdRage]

why thank you!

[@GermansEagle]

keep pushing it back, I want it to be as detailed as possible, there must be no questions left behind(or at least mostly)

[@codycall6513]

One of the best videos yet. Must be loaded up with sodium metal by now!!

[@scabbarae]

So fascinating and really impressive. I'm an analytical chemist so I don't get to do anything like this, but watching your channel is the next best thing.

[@kdawg3484]

Incredible video. Incredible work getting here. So proud to be a patron. I think you've done more than anyone could have possibly imagined on this subject. I think you can call this one good and move on to another awesome project. I can't wait to see what problems you solve with the next one.

[@NicholasA231]

Goddamn. I can only vaguely follow the more technical details of this presentation, but this really seems like a new level of groundbreaking discovery in amateur chem. Congratulations! Oh, and not publishing may not diminish the accomplishment, but you totally deserve the professional acknowledgement. Plus, amateur produced, high quality research is a huge validation for the community. In a field that has to deal with idiotic prejudices more than other sciences we need visibility from people like you.

[@steves1015]

What an amazing bit of research! It is truly inspiring what you have managed to have achieve so far and what you continue to do, especially outside of the facilities of a major lab (but without their constraints too). Others can see what is possible to accomplish. I really hope you manage to gather together this work and get it published.

[@pappaflammyboi5799]

This video is so good you should publish. Thank you for your tremendous insight and effort.

[@takingthescenicroute1610]

32:41 I actually hope you do find some new discoveries since that's what makes the science behind it so awesome!

[@zbeekerm]

Phenomenal vid. Take your time with the final one, your discoveries are super interesting.

[@andywells8125]

WOW!!!!! Best KZbin channel ever! This is absolutely amazing & a great way to interest my students in chemistry. I’m going to post it to my class webpage if that’s ok.

[@NurdRage]

go for it :)

[@sinecurve9999]

0:50 they heard about you and they shut you down. Notorious NurdRage. Watch out!

[@ChrisZahrte]

I find myself unconcerned with the extra time and wish upon you more "annoying rashes of new discoveries" 😆

[@takingthescenicroute1610]

I like the extensive amount of original science that's been performed here just for something that would seem simple such as "getting sodium metal."

[@Metalhammer1993]

Holy cow menthol works?! Great work mate now we have a simple catalyst even if its slower. Cause menthol can be literally obtained everywhere. You could just go in your local pharmacy. But if you get borneol that's great too. Nice work, narrowing down the mechanism and the side reactions!

[@dylazo8459]

Been sometime since the "tin can" prep of Na, awesome work! Your series defines how rudimentary research should work, problem solving at it's best!

[@Frostlander]

Menthol? Menthol? Menthol?! Menthol! Bro you are the boss KZbin chemist.

[@adamradulovich7757]

Dude you are awesome. Love your videos. Quite a bit of the chemistry is above my head, due to my lack of formal education on the subject, but I have learned so much watching your videos. Thank you.

[@nicolashaller5863]

Great Video! And your explanations are amazing. Take your time with the final video, if by being patient we get more such amazing videos, I think all of us hare happy to wait.

[@uspockdad6429]

Amazing work! I have been watching this series on Sodium since the beginning, and seeing your failures along with your successes is awesome. I am looking forward to your final video on this process. And i really do hope you can get your hands on some cyclohexanol and write this up. You should be commended for your work on this subject, and given proper credit from the science community. NurdRage Rocks!

[@rambythezombie]

This video was amazing, a nice long video that can hold my attention is a wonderful thing. And I learned some more things about chemistry. Amazing win. Also, congratulations on your work thus far.

[@icebluscorpion]

@NerdRage Can you make cyclohexanol? And I have a question... If cyclohexanol works, Could cyclohexane- 1,3,5 triol work faster than cyclohexanol?

[@Ironclad17]

Great video! Really ties together how theory and experimentation work together.

[@mikeguitar9769]

I hope you keep working with sodium, this is great!

[@kcsj9000]

Assuming primary alcohol fails due to the alcohol/Mg release step on step 3 failed to proceed, can we use equimolar of alcohol to just provide sufficient alcohol for step 1 and 2 without completing the catalytic cycle?

[@T3sl4]

Question: is it possible to reuse the goo multiple times? Straining out sodium, filtering or settling MgO, and adding new NaOH and Mg? How fast does it degrade (due to catalyst loss or degradation, solvent degradation, accumulation of inhibiting impurities, etc.)? That could also save a user some reagents, merely at the cost of more run time.

[@KowboyUSA]

So they will still sell to perfumers. Why not explore some of the science involved in perfume making?

[@T3sl4]

Gosh, would camphor reduce naturally to the alcohol under the reaction conditions? What would a ketone do here? Aldol type reactions come to mind of course, but these conditions are rather more aggressive, and dry, than the conditions usually used for those reactions.

[@hamp9061]

This is the chemistry I hope to be doing some day! Great work!

[@pharmdiesel]

This is good work man. Nice on the mechanism. If you are teaching somewhere I would definitely write this up for publication. It is certainly relevant to citizen scientists, but it is also worthy of scholarly publication.

[@outofturn1920]

The important of the series is as much on how to do research chemistry as it is in make sodium, thank you.

[@me3333]

It's nice to see true unbiased science that isn't aimed at profiting someone. Good on ya NurdRage!!!

[@homosapiensqp3225]

Is steric hindrance a word so rarely used in chemistry that you haven't used it even once? Or maybe it is something different than steric bulk?

[@killerdustbunnies]

I am really enjoying these lab notes videos! I'm ok with the "standard" video being postponed, as long as you keep us up to date with interesting things like this. :) Keep up the good work!!

[@marsegan8788]

I'm curious if there isn't some menthol-based ointment that could provide both the alcohol and the solvent with the added benefit of being readily available in stores.

[@harshrajkamal3943]

That's fine NurdRage, I am sure some of the guys watching the video are professionals and will actually go through the pain of testing of cyclohexanol as a viable catalyst. Also, congrats on your discoveries.