Nvidia GeForce RTX 4070 Super Review: A Step In The Right Direction

[@lharsay]

What I find really funny is that it's almost the same card they tried to sell a year ago for $900 as a 4080 12GB.

[@DBTHEPLUG]

That's why you wait before purchasing something. If you want a new product the moment it launches, be prepared to pay up and realize that you were able to get a better card for a better price if you decided to hold off for a sec.

[@clansome]

@@DBTHEPLUG Unless it's a 4090. That costs even more now (approx 25%), albeit external factors apply there tbh.

[@born2serve92]

the 4070ti is the exact same as the 4080 12 gig ironically.

[@fabrb26]

This should be pinned because it's nothing but help for people not to copium relapse

[@DBTHEPLUG]

Who cares? The people wanting to buy this card don't own a 4080 anyways.@@fabrb26

[@leonthesleepy]

I miss the days when $500 was a premium GPU...

[@Luke973T]

I miss the days when gas was still under 2 dollars.

[@ThomasVvV]

PS5 is $500

[@pvcordeiro]

Does the word "inflation" rings any bell?

[@grimdicer152]

@@pvcordeiro Inflation you say? A word most people simply cannot comprehend.

[@leonro]

​@@pvcordeirothis goes way above inflation

[@retrosean199]

I like the idea of the KZbin review being a companion piece to the written benchmarks. The 'what can you actually do with this thing?' theme is interesting.

[@oneandonlyjark]

It's too bad the staff over at IGN, Gamespot, etc., even other KZbinrs, don't understand that. Their written work serves merely as scripts for the videos, and it's often not even the same people writing essay scripts versus starring in the videos.

[@iurigrang]

That’s why I love DF. It isn’t just a numbers game, it’s a “what is the actual experience?” thing. Why waste time on a video showing us 30 bar charts when 5 (specifically chosen to be representative of the global, of course) are enough and you can spend the rest of the time explaining how the actual experience of actually owning the card pans out?

[@chrisc_1012]

​@@iurigrangThis x 💯

[@1KayBilly]

We are at that uncomfortable time again where it would make sense to just wait for next gen cards, but you also expect next gen cards to be ridiculously overpriced for a year, so it does not make sense.

[@sinenomine4540]

prices fall when people stop buying overpriced crap like this.

[@StrazdasLT]

@@sinenomine4540 Why would they stop buying such good value for money?

[@formulaic78]

Yeah, I'm tempted by the 4080 super at MSRP simply because I reckon it could take two years until the 5080 super is available at that price.

[@zerocal76]

​@@StrazdasLTu can't troll very well my friend

[@StrazdasLT]

@@zerocal76 No trolling needed to get buyers remorse coping from AMD fans.

[@RobIn-ky4uz]

5:43 "I could go on...and to be honest I will. Lets face facts..." Richard L.

[@kaiserfakinaway5909]

the GOAT

[@gavinderulo12]

Those ps5 settings comparisons are awesome and something you won't find in any other review.

[@JoeStuffzAlt]

Agreed. With the GPU prices increasing, it's good to let us know what we'll be getting vs buying the console. Still, there's the mouse and keyboard factor for FPS games.

[@Leeki85]

@@JoeStuffzAlt You'll also get both Xbox and Playstation games on PC and no paid subscription to play on-line. PC has also great backwards compatibility. Most PS4/XO era games have ultra settings on PC that are far beyond what is available on current consoles via backwards compatibility.

[@JoeStuffzAlt]

@@Leeki85 100% agreed. Backwards compatibility has been awesome. I have Xbox 360 and PS4-era games, and 0 problems playing them. There's also the factor of "okay, it sucks on my PC now, but how will it run on the PC I'll have 5 years from now?"

[@Battleneter]

@@JoeStuffzAlt A PC is not "just" a toy like a console, many PC gamers also use their PC for productivity types tasks as well like work from home etc. Comparing the price is a bit like comparing a cheap screw driver to an Swiss army knife that does everything, but of course you can just use it as a screw driver :P

[@i3l4ckskillzz79]

My 4090 pc is definitely a toy

[@mechanicalmonk2020]

I absolutely love love love the new "real world use cases" benchmarks. Keep that up!

[@ClarkWasHere1]

4070super is more than double the performance of the 2070super, but sadly doesn't have the 2x vram that would let the card age gracefully during the rest of the gen.

[@ArcanePath360]

Indeed. At this price point it should be 16GB RAM at least. I thought my 3070 would be fine at 8GB but just a year later and I'm having to turn settings down. My card can easily handle the processing but lacks the memory.

[@DragonOfTheMortalKombat]

@@ArcanePath360 true, more vram is absolutely necessary.

[@IncredibleLyrics]

@@DragonOfTheMortalKombat Dont think its really necessary at all?

[@Sam_Saraguy]

@@IncredibleLyrics It is necessary for 2 or 3 years of future proofing. And with the price of graphics cards, you need that.

[@ziggyvertang3257]

I'm running a 2070s so thinking about upgrading but even the performance increase this card just seems a daft way to spend some cash

[@ehcor]

Richard Leadbetter VS. Peter Griffin @ 16:09 . Kidding aside, taking console equivalent settings with DLSS/FSR for benchmarking should be standard. Great review.

[@GriffinCorpOne]

I'm so happy I ordered the 4070 Super. I just built my new gaming PC and I'm just waiting for the Super and the Alienware 32" QD-OLED to arrive!

[@chrisc_1012]

I love your reviews Rich, there's just so much nuance and detail Makes me wish you'd review games too, and not just technically

[@Amanojaku8]

He used to, for Mean Machines magazine in the '90s I think?

[@k.23_02]

This is not a step in the right and doesn't fix most people's issues with the 70 cards. Nvidia have completely ignored the main issues that people had with the 4070 which was the fact we was paying $550 - $600 for a GPU with only 12GB of Vram. It's good they've added 16GB to the 4070 Ti Super but the 4070 Super should of got 16GB too.

[@shiba7651]

They can't easily add more vram to that gpu without changing the whole memory layout to accommodate a wider bit bus, that's why most cards with different amounts of vram cut the memory bandwidth or just use half as much capacity for the lower end models

[@TheUruse]

You're watching Nvidia biased channel after all.

[@joeykeilholz925]

More performance at same cost is undeniably the right direction. You wanted less?

[@nicane-9966]

​@@joeykeilholz925it still didnt fix the elephant im the room wich is what needed to be fixed the most and price but you cant see it.

[@k.23_02]

@@shiba7651 They could have just did what they did with the 4070 Ti Super which is put it on the 4080 die but just massively cut it so it's not too close to a 4070 Ti Super in performance because obviously they still need to sell 4070 Ti Supers

[@oli6108]

Great review. I personally find this style so much more useful showing actual use case and describing how games feel to play rather than endless benchmarks and barcharts that dont really convey the experience, just a snapshot of data. Keep it up!

[@c0d3_m0nk3y]

Only 12 GB of VRAM for a $600 card is a real bummer, though. Recommending the 4070 Super despite of that is like saying AMD cards are great if you ignore raytracing, upscaling, frame generation, denoising and AI.

[@Argedis]

Don't forget power usage

[@totalprocall6894]

@@Argedis Don't forget undervolting.

[@Argedis]

@@totalprocall6894 You can undervolt any card, the fact is the AMD cards still use way more power. No one wants a space heater in the summer

[@DeadNoob451]

@@Argedis Except for anyone who bought a 3080 or above last gen. Or a 4090 lol.

[@StrazdasLT]

The thing is theres no game out there that uses more VRAM. For a gaming card 12 GB is enough.

[@telsan4291]

Best thing about the 4070 super is how they crashed the 4070 pricing, I’ve managed to get a 4070 on eBay UK for £400 and for that price I’m chuffed with the price to performance. Only catch is the VRAM being a little low at 12GB so not sure about how futureproof it is

[@Wobbothe3rd]

12gb is fine for the next 5 years.

[@arbernuka3679]

sure bro like 8-10 gbs cards were fine back than, do you realise 3070ti went to trash tier 1.5years after its release just cause of vram.

[@03chrisv]

​@@arbernuka3679 Most devs target consoles, 12GB will be fine until the PS6 launches since PS5 and Series X games don't use more than 12GB of memory.

[@Phil_529]

@@Wobbothe3rd 12GB chokes on Cyberpunk pathtracing at 4K already.

[@mikem9536]

So the 4070 is almost worth the price now?

[@K3Techs]

What's up with people completely misrepresenting inflation in this thread? $500 premium GPUs should be like $700 now at equal manufacturing costs. If it was inflation Nvidia's margins wouldn't have exploded 🤦🏻‍♂️

[@pcgamingftw5694]

People have to cope with their purchasing decisions, i.e. being ripped off by Nvidia...

[@Wobbothe3rd]

Inflation over just the past 5 years has been dramatic. And the cards offeruch more performance. People are buying rtx40 cards for a reason, regardless of what channels like this think.

[@Phil_529]

NVIDIA is definitely pushing their profits first. The 4080S is only 379 mm² whereas the 1080 TI was 471 mm² for $700 MSRP. That $700 would be $880 accounting for inflation. Yet we are expected to pay $999 for the 4080S even though it's vastly cutdown. Remember when the 70 series launched at $329? Pepperidge Farm remembers. Also they ripped people off on VRAM back then too -- 3.5GB belongs in infamy.

[@SimonBuchanNz]

Nvidia gets their margins from the $10,000+ AI cards AFAICT, don't think the GPU market is really their focus at the CEO level. Inflation might be crazy, but the sticker shock was the 20 to the 30 series cards, which was blamed on COVID shortages and crypto mining - then they didn't drop off after (but then, why would Nvidia when AMD are still behind enough on features?)

[@Phil_529]

@@SimonBuchanNz Turing was expensive so they could clear Pascal stock. The 3080 at $700 was them going back to sane pricing. We have since dealt with another crypto boom and crash and now NVIDIAs greed is at an all time high.

[@bragr9139]

I love these videos, but i think a lot of us are sitting on our 30 series, and would prefer more comparisons to the 3080,70 and 90. I have a 3090, while it might be more energy efficient, i can't see if these cards are really better or worth upgrading to yet.

[@Cam_Wight]

Bro I’m on a 1070, no one includes even the 2070 anymore

[@hacob2004]

The card needs 16gb of ram. If they dropped the original 4070 to $450 I bet this card wouldn't sell well at all.

[@Wobbothe3rd]

The 4070 sold extremely well at the original MSRP.

[@hacob2004]

@@Wobbothe3rd That’s because it was the most affordable 40 series card that wasn’t flat out bad.

[@harrygeoffrion4520]

Id cop a 4070 at 450$ in a heartbeat

[@selohcin]

Right, but that will never happen, so...

[@FSAPOJake]

$600 or more for a GPU with 12GB VRAM. That's going to be a hard sell in 2024, so I expect this to drop in price over time just like the 4070 and 4070ti did.

[@RealMTBAddict]

Wahhhh

[@fabrb26]

@@RealMTBAddict it start at 700€ here and electricity bill around x3,5 compared to highest US. So yeah 6600/6650xt , 3050/4060 is about the range of what you can do under 500€ for GPU and one year of electricity worth

[@RealMTBAddict]

@@fabrb26 Electricity bill? Not sure what VRAM has to do with your energy bill lol.

[@nicane-9966]

​@@RealMTBAddict12gb is a mockery of a card. If u are into 12gb at 600 good for you enjoy lowering settings by the end of the year on your newest purchase (disgrace of a card)

[@mikem9536]

@@nicane-9966For anyone with a decent GPU already, this card is another Dud.

[@ReachTea]

12GB VRAM is still so unbelievably low and makes it hard to do RT at 1440p, should be minimum 16GB

[@DeadPiixxel]

I don't use RT so 12GB is fine for me but not at that price

[@jmcfizzle29]

What games is it hard to do that with?

[@IHeart16Bit]

And yet the video clearly shows otherwise , so that was a dumb take. Although, it should be a 16gb card for the price, no arguments there.

[@drunkhusband6257]

12gb of vram is more than enough for 1440p and will be for quite a while.

[@ronniekregar3482]

​@@drunkhusband6257true.... people make wayyyy too big a deal over Vram..

[@robertlawrence9000]

When a RTX 3080 beats a RTX 4070, something is wrong. The 4000 series cards should not have launched this way. Now we are seeing these new cards more comparable how the next gen tier should be more like, even though having to name them in weird ways because of the original names taken. Of course the prices are still not favorable to where they should be and hopefully their 5000 series will show better increases to performance compared to previous gen class groups.

[@wiLdchiLd2k]

its not wrong... its a xx80 vs a xx70 the 80 should perform better even a gen before... with rt dlss fg the 3080 wont beat any 40 series.

[@TTOOS]

@@wiLdchiLd2k Spoken like a true consumer!!! 🙈😂😂😂😂

[@MrBrax]

​@@wiLdchiLd2kprevious 70 gens beat the new 80 gens

[@Arcona]

@@wiLdchiLd2k FG and power efficiency is all is has going for it. FG is only in some games, and sucks in a lot of them. DLSS is the same, and RT perf of the 3080 is similar to the 4070, and better than the 4060Ti, and massively better than the 4060. And it is wrong. 4070 being a bit slower than a 3080 in raster is poor. A 3070 is faster than a 2080 Ti. A 3060Ti is faster than a 2080. A 2070 is faster than a 1080. A 1070 is faster than a 980Ti 4070 is dropping the trend.

[@vinyfiny]

@@wiLdchiLd2k The 3060 ti matched the 2080 and the 2070 mostly beat the 1080 so I'm not sure what you're talking about.

[@telefonbarmann4514]

I think the approach of testing with console settings is great. I also think it's great that you still additionally use bar graphs and comparable settings to get a sense of where the cards rank relative to the others. All of this really gives a better picture for the end user and what can and can't be played in the end. I think with that, you are making a valuable addition to the review community.

[@HypnoticSuggestion]

It was the 4070 Ti and up which had the dual AV1 encoders I think? So I'm curious if the 4070 Super now has that.

[@Xarrant]

4070 Super does not have dual encoders. Still only the 4070 Ti up only including the Ti Super.

[@farazsiddiqui1312]

What does the dual AV1 encoders do?

[@randomguydoes2901]

@@farazsiddiqui1312 they can encode modern video at a decent render speed. To efficiently store on a drive or to stream to some device (with AV1 decode)

[@sdtunstall]

Need to reject this at this price with just 12GB of VRAM. We're being herded toward premature obsolescence when AW2 and the Avatar already smash up against 12GB's when you have 1440p or 4k at higher details, and that's before RT being turned on.

[@soraaoixxthebluesky]

Why is it so hard for them to make 16GB of VRAM as a standard?

[@lharsay]

Because despite it being a new product the 4070Super is using a chip which was designed years ago, Nvidia either hoped that we would have more dense memory chips on the market by now or simply didn't think this card needed more. There is a possibility that they could give it 24GB but that would be expensive and kinda overkill.

[@Mopantsu]

The architecture was decided upon over a year in advance of the 4070 Non-Super launch. Nvidia fucked up on die and memory bus bandwidth not predicting how much VRAM would be needed on modern titles. Plus they always try to skimp on memory to improve their margins and make sure the upgrade cycle continues on a two yearly basis. There will never be another 1080 Ti moment.

[@Phil_529]

They want to upsell you. I bet it's working.

[@TheLastTater]

I’ve watched all of the 4070 super reviews. There are plenty of great ones out there but I have got to say DF reviews are always my favorite. The tests and data are always concise and meaningful. I always love the perspective you guys offer with the tests

[@JizzSock_]

You have something brown on your nose.

[@TheLastTater]

@@JizzSock_ lol I thought this was a good place to show my appreciation for how DF does their reviews… I’m sorry that bothers you 😉

[@subjectivereviews]

Gamers Nexus is also good

[@TheLastTater]

@@subjectivereviews yeah they are great too. 👍🏼

[@subjectivereviews]

@@TheLastTater 👌

[@JebesNikove]

When I hear midrange card for a almost 700 eur product it hurts my soul :D

[@DanKeatis]

Control is one of the few games where GPU glitches (I had an issue with HD textures taking forever to load) actually enhance the game with its ever-present sense of weirdness.

[@Vextime77]

12gb $600, step backwards.

[@Maxoverpower]

With 30 series you'd be getting 8 GB for that price. It's not backwards, just not moving in the same direction as AMD.

[@4doorsmorewhors]

Exactly, the ONLY thing that is important in a GPU is how much VRAM you have. It's that simple.

[@justmatt2655]

​@@4doorsmorewhorsyeah I'd rather have 5 cuda cores and 16gb than 5000 cuda cores and 8gb 😂

[@4doorsmorewhors]

@@justmatt2655 simple logic

[@AdrienPierret]

Great review! I'd love to see some VR benchmarks too!

[@mikepawlikguitar]

Edit* DLSS isn't just a crutch, it brings actual, visible graphical enhancements to the table including anti-aliasing. SS is super-sampling, which in and of itself means improved image quality. So, you're getting improved image quality AND more frames per second -- and in my view, this is a win-win. Aside from that, it's certainly not a mid-range card in terms of price, but it certainly is in terms of GIMPED MEMORY. VRAM for Nvidia cards should be: - 4060-series: 12G - 4070-series: 16G - 4080-series: 20G - 4090: 24G

[@StrazdasLT]

You say Gimped, but thats only true if you run AI models on it. For gaming, theres nothing out there right now that could use all 12 GB.

[@phyxirian]

On 1440p last of us part 1, Forspoken, Dead space remake used at release more then 12GB.

[@mikepawlikguitar]

@@phyxirian Yeah exactly, that's why people need to check their expectations. RTX 4070 for 1440p, easily, with 16G of RAM. None of the "lower-tier" Nvidia cards have enough VRAM, which is exactly my point!

[@mikepawlikguitar]

@@StrazdasLT I'm not sure why you would say this as there's very clear, cut & dry evidence indicating the exact opposite lol.

[@mikem2253]

These should have been called "The 4070 'What It Should Have Been' Edition."

[@RealMTBAddict]

So start your own damn company

[@BleedForTheWorld]

@@RealMTBAddict just wave a magic wand, woosh

[@RealMTBAddict]

@@BleedForTheWorld Do something besides complaining

[@starfighter7293]

@@RealMTBAddict sure just let me build a GPU Company to match NVIDIA and AMD real quick...

[@AdaaDK]

still overpriced and underpreforming, a 70class with a 192bus is a scandal, and considering it has a launch price more than 100% higher than the 970 cards less than a decade ago, Ngreedia has fooled u all.

[@eliack95]

This is definitely what the 40 series should have been at launch. I'm happy with my 4070 Ti but now I wonder how viable it would be for me to trade in at Microcenter for a 4070 Ti Super or 4080 Super

[@RealMTBAddict]

Don't trade in, you'll get a hundred bucks more selling it on eBay.

[@GarrettTobyC13]

I just wonder what the second hand market will be willing to pay for mine. I barely used the thing it’s in great condition. Is 600 too optimistic?

[@RealMTBAddict]

@@GarrettTobyC13 Just look at existing listings to get an idea.

[@plasticelephant1969]

never upgrade in the same gen my guy, wait for 50 series, get a 5080 when it comes

[@AbrahamZX1]

​@@GarrettTobyC13 I think $600-650 is fair, it still beats the 4070 Super by about 8-10%.

[@detonator620]

And I remember good old times when you just launch 3DMark 2001 and compare the results. How the tech have evolved.

[@doodleEeto]

Nvidia on 4070 Super: *adds 1000 or so cuda cores* Media: "LEAP FORWARD!"

[@paulustrucenus]

1000 is à lot of cuda cores

[@AdaaDK]

and if you look at it like the core has its maxed cuda near the 4070TI, its still not a high % of increse of its total cudacore count, and people forget about diminishing returns + the impact of the gimped mem bus on the 70 series.

[@Wobbothe3rd]

The performance speaks for itself. The 4070 Super beats a 3090 in the toughest cases.

[@LtSokol]

Its still too high at the price point it offers especially for mid range card. I have a feeling we will never see a proper price model we use to get before the whole ridiculous prices hit the GPU market few years back...

[@paul1979uk2000]

Yep, I consider mid-range to be anywhere from £300-£500 depending on the card. This card is supposed to be a mid-range gpu, but it's priced more like a high-end card, and even thought it's better than what we had before it, it's still crazy high of a price point for that class of card and the conclusion for me is that the last gen gpu's are a better deal then this gen whiles still being powerful enough for the latest gaming, whereas this gen has been way too expensive across the range of AMD and Nvidia gpu's. I also find it amusing how some think this gpu is a good price or even a steal, seriously, what planet are these people on? lol, yes it's better than what we've just had but gpu's have been way over inflated the last 2 or so years.

[@RealMTBAddict]

So start your own company genius

[@schabigerlump]

The only luck is that with 10 percent tdp increase it runs at old 4070Ti performance for 200 eurodebts less. Not great, not terrible card.

[@Wobbothe3rd]

It's a great value.

[@DeadNoob451]

@@RealMTBAddict So if i dont want BP to spill oil in the ocean i should just go and get my own offshore oil platform ? Not sure how that would help buddy.

[@TheDuzx]

I think there is a real possibility that Nvidia just took their margin back to where they were at launch. They probably have better yealds so they can give more cores to the "casual" option. It's literally the same size chip so the BOM should be about the same.

[@DeadNoob451]

Yeah it seems like a reset to MSRP after the normal 4070 was dropping in price.1

[@dreammfyre]

Ridiculous prices. Way smarter to stick to discounted cards at this point or even second hand ones if they’re like 150-200 bucks Still tho, with DLSS, this is basically like 3x the performance vs the PS5, and like 2x without.

[@Wobbothe3rd]

It's beating the 3090, which cost 3x as much at launch.

[@PancakeInu]

GTX 970 for $330 USD. Still rocking one like it's 2014.

[@Parmetheus]

Same here and my CPU is also from that era lol 🥲

[@raresmacovei8382]

To be fair, 970 was like a GTX 780 with a newer uArch and more VRAM. But wasn't a speed boost.

[@krisw4846]

Lmao...Same 😅

[@Pytony_98]

@@raresmacovei8382 was (slightly) more powerful, and with more vram than the 780ti, that was the top of the line at the time

[@RealMTBAddict]

Why?

[@quickcinemarecap]

00:04 Nvidia aims to address the RTX 3080 situation with the 4070 super refresh. 02:42 Nvidia GeForce RTX 4070 Super is a winner with excellent energy efficiency and performance. 05:02 Nvidia GeForce RTX 4070 Super outperforms AMD and Nvidia hardware with significant lead 07:21 Nvidia GeForce RTX 4070 Super beats RX 7800 XT by 4 percentage points 09:44 Nvidia GeForce RTX 4070 Super offers substantial performance gains over console gaming. 12:01 RTX 4070 Super offers over twice the performance of PS5 in some games 14:23 Nvidia GeForce RTX 4070 Super delivers exceptional 4K performance with DLSS 16:41 Performance boost with dlss and frame gen 18:40 Nvidia GeForce RTX 4070 Super provides increased value and performance 20:38 Support for digital Foundry is crucial

[@vanceg4901]

4070 TI Super on 01/24/24 will be interesting reviews.

[@Phil_529]

Finally a "budget" 4K NVIDIA card. What a joke this pricing has become.

[@MrBrax]

Still too expensive

[@kaiserfakinaway5909]

Yeah and so is AMD's card, I really hope this pushes AMD to price their card 100-200 USD cheaper which would in turn force NVIDIA to make their cards a bit cheaper as well, these two greedy bozos have played with our wallets for too long. I had to pay 1k USD for an RX 6700 XT (even more overpriced in my country), the 3060 Ti was 50 USD more and the 3070 was 1400 USD, I wanted to get the 3070 but that was just way too much. The rest of my PC cost 1000 USD like bruh. If the RTX 4070 Super costed 500 USD (which it should imo) then it'd be a great deal and I think at that point PC gaming would be booming even more. The 70 series cards have always been the sweet spot. No one NEEDS anything more, these cards leave you with enough in your pocket to upgrade again later on but not take away so much that you can't play anything. They strike a nice balance. I think budget cards should be better too, the RX 7600 should be called the RX 7500 and be priced like that and so on. Oh well a man can dream.

[@commandertoothpick8284]

Looks good for a $400 card. Its $400 right? Right?!

[@4doorsmorewhors]

Nope, you're just poor.

[@UberFren]

its not 2017 anymore sadly

[@commandertoothpick8284]

@@4doorsmorewhors ohh woe is me. im so poor tell me more bro

[@-INFERNUS-]

I just ordered the PNY 4070 Super Overclocked from Amazon, it's been available since Jan. 17 no issues at all with stock. Now I have to put my EVGA 3070 on my shelf, I'm not selling that one. RIP EVGA 😭

[@sneakysnake3344]

659€ (included Tax) which is 715somewhat Us$ yeah they can fucking keep it

[@DeadNoob451]

But you dont understand. It consumes so little power that in just 50 years you will have made up the money it costs.

[@Umbralaniidae]

"Mid range card". I'm sorry. But I can't get over it. It's not a mid range card, it's 600$. The fact nVidia shaved off 200 bucks off 4080 shows there's still margins to dig into here. I can get a PS5 and a dubious Series S for the price of this card and still have some spare change. Maybe performance wise this is close to "what should have been". But price wise it's so far from it. This is an enthusiast card with nVidia playing fast and loose with the naming scheme. I fully expect 5080 launch at 1000$ and 5070 for 600$. It's not even Turing 2.0. Turing at least indicated a shift in tech.

[@rafinery576]

You can get a full PC that would match PS5 for under $1k. This video literally shows that we're looking at hardware that's 2x+ the performance.

[@milandalosur1850]

@@rafinery576doubling performance of a 2020 console with double the money isn’t a big dub

[@arthurlongshanks]

@@milandalosur1850 it is a dub - consoles are remarkably good value for money, because they're sold at a loss as the vendor recuperates (and profits) off the subscription fees (i.e. Xbox Game Pass/Playstation Plus, etc)

[@Bry.89]

@@milandalosur1850 it is if you want better than console performance.. if I want console performance, I'd get a console.

[@GameslordXY]

​@rafinery576 You can get a PC that matches PS5 for approximately 750$ or less...IF you know what you are doing. 900 or less with OS, keyboard and mouse.

[@letterman4290]

I better stay with my 3080 for another year

[@XiaOmegaX]

Or longer. Just keep an eye on vram usage. 10/12gb isn't enough these days.

[@willwunsche6940]

Same I am so glad I got it around MSRP close to launch. Gonna cross gen upgrade

[@Wobbothe3rd]

Duh. Nobody upgrades every cycle. If you have a 3080 you don't even need to consider rtx40, silly to even mention that.

[@letterman4290]

@@Wobbothe3rd Totally agree, only 4090 is a step forward in that generation.

[@Phil_529]

@@Wobbothe3rd Went from 3080 to 4090. Worth every penny.

[@will891410]

GPU makers should add some space on the board for upgrading the ammount of memory in it, like it comes with 16GB but some slots for you to buy memory and add it later.

[@leonro]

there's no such high speed & low latency standard connector, you also need to cool the ram and will lose on bandwidth with the standard sku

[@will891410]

@@leonro 🤔

[@KrakenGameReviews]

Gpu memory runs at such high speeds you need to design traces on the board specifically to ensure you're utilising that GDDRX ram effectively. The amount of engineering, resources and price increases needed for a feature that only a subset of users would take advantage of seems a waste. You "can" get a professional to desolder the existing vram and upgrade it, and you'd need someone to edit a bios to detect more vram.

[@RealMTBAddict]

VRAM over 12gb isn't needed. Calm down child

[@will891410]

@@RealMTBAddict 8 GB is too low, 12 GB is better and 16 GB is the best option. The best bet is 24 GB to play games abou 250 FPS.

[@someusername1872]

Wow, this is embarrassing. I kind of feel better about buying a 3080 now.

[@cube2fox]

How do they compare in terms of price?

[@joeykeilholz925]

​@@cube2fox$700 msrp Sept. 2020 release date on the 3080. Jan. 2024 we have a card releasing at $600 that performs worse than the 3080 at times. Considering the time that's passed and how much more vram is needed these days, it's unacceptable. The 4070 super should be $450-$500.

[@someusername1872]

@@joeykeilholz925paid 700 for a used EVGA 3080 on eBay. Kind of paid way too much but it's an EVGA card so I don't think it's gonna croak any time soon

[@benito9017]

​@@joeykeilholz925 i didnt seen one benchmark where the 4070s performance is worse then vanilla 3080 but ok

[@Rexxark1ng]

“I could go on, and to be honest I will” Such a rich humour 😄

[@wile123456]

Sure, taking a step is progress. However when there is 10 kilometers to the destination, a single step ain't doing much. As is painfully clear now, this card is currently selling terribly. Nvidia offered less supply of it than the 4070 non super, yet it's not sold out, and can still be got at MSRP. There is very little hype for this. Many retailers state their only other worst selling card is the 4080. A 16 GB ram version of the 4070 for 500 dollars was the winning move, instead Nvidia has greeded up the midrange. 12 GB in 2024 is not worth it for a 600 dollar gpu.

[@BleedForTheWorld]

Correct on all points

[@pcgamingftw5694]

Well said, there are no excuses for this...

[@IncredibleLyrics]

4070S is simply supposed to replace 4070 which it does.. its not a new generation why would they change vram that majority really dont care about.

[@chrisvig123]

Poor sales in Canada…I think most gamers are holding out for the 4070 super ti or 4080 super…12gb just seems really dated at this price point 😯

[@Woodzta]

We've been conditioned. This is really a 4060 Ti that's $100-$150 more than it should be. It is a step in the right direction, but not a particularly exciting one. Holding onto my 3070 for now and go for a 16GB card down the line.

[@Eric-ct2ri]

its not a 4060 ti its the normal 4060... you been conditioned if you think its 4060ti... its specs match the 3060 12gb... 192bit bus where as the 3060ti was a cut down 3070 with 256bit bus

[@IncredibleLyrics]

I had a 3070 but thought getting a 4070S is most likely worth it , can sell my 3070 for probs 300 but will lose value by the time 5000 series comes out.

[@randomguydoes2901]

@@Eric-ct2ri can't just look at the bus width for these things. Lovelace has gigantic l2 cache and isn't directly comparable at all. There is a lot of bullshit everywhere else on these cards and it should have a wider bus and more VRAM than it does, and/or cost much less. but there is no way I'd expect this card to be a 4060. It being a 4060ti or 4070 would be fair enough.

[@Eric-ct2ri]

@@randomguydoes2901 indeed you can look at the chip size also which is 20mm² bigger than the 3060 ie same tier chip. x70 gpus are typically around 400mm² chips this is a 294 mm² which is the size x60 gpus usually are... and i seriously doupt the 4070/super cost 300$ more to make than the 3060 12gb did making the price differrence possibly entirely profit.

[@clockworklegionaire2135]

@@Eric-ct2ri You have been conditioned yourself kid, if the 4070 super is a 4060 then the 7800 xt is a 4050

[@Pruflas-Watts]

A step in the right direction would have been launching this card at $450. A $600 MSRP and 12GB of VRAM is 3 steps in the wrong direction. Consoomers are gonna consoooom though.

[@mikem9536]

Kinda happy I can wait another year or 2 before I upgrade gpu's.

[@Pruflas-Watts]

@mikem9536 Seriously. I had a RX 580 before getting a RX 7600 at $280, getting disappointed by its price to performance and VRAM stutters and returning it for a $300 power color fighter RX 6700 XT. I'll stick to traditional rasterization until ray tracing starts delivering acceptable performance and resolution at a $300 range, which may very well be never, but I will never buy any of these GPUs at their proposed MSRPs.

[@Shantara11]

DF tries really hard to avoid direct comparison with AMD GPUs as much as possible 😂 I am not sure, what’s the practical reason for so many PS5 comparisons. I don’t think there are many people who are choosing between buying one or another. Not to mention the GPU alone costs more than the console

[@mikem9536]

Yeah because compared to AMD 12GB VRAM for $600 is simply pathetic.

[@StrazdasLT]

most of the comparison graphs were with an AMD GPU, what are you talking about?

[@jcmclint]

+2 for Spinal Tap reference.

[@kaisersolo76]

Its not enough. NV Users that are still using expensive (at the time) rtx 200/rtx 3000 with the pityful 8gb/10gb vram have seen how their cards are fairing in new games at the resolution they play at or want to play at. for $/£600 they demand 16gb with a bigger bus width or face another short life card. nvidia are experts at under delivering so you buy again.

[@mikem9536]

Yep, this is just another bad 4070.

[@StrazdasLT]

Considering that there is 2 games out there that can even use more than 10 GB of VRAM, id say they are doing just fine.

[@papalazarou7880]

I bought my son the Asus TUF Gaming 4070 OC the within the first few weeks of the 4070’s release. Gutted, 9 months later you can get a faster card for the same price! They could have left it for a year at least surely? I’ve bought the GeForce 2 MX 400, GeForce 2 GTS, GeForce 3 Ti 200, GeForce 4 Ti 4200, (Radeon 9800 Pro), GeForce 6600 GTS (Big Console playing gap) GeForce 1070, 1080, 3060 12GB, 3070 and 4070 but for me I won’t be buying Nvidia again after this. The 1080 and 1080 Ti are the last great cards they made. The 3070 should have had 10GB and the 3080 12GB from the start. The 4070 Ti should have been the 4070 but also needed 16GB VRAM. They’ve well and truly done us over since the 1000 Series. 2060 6GB?!… My daughter has the 3070 but will be upgrading her to an AMD card next 100%. My son will stay on the 4070 for another 2 years then he’s going AMD and I currently have the 7900XTX so I’m ok for the next 3-4 years.

[@mikem9536]

No they couldn't wait any longer, they want to ditch the 12GB VRAM models before they are garbage.

[@miguelroman4294]

Rich thanks for your breakdown of the RTX4070S and the comparison between the other cards as well.

[@wesbaugher]

I’ve been rocking my Rtx 2070 super for a bit now. I have been wanting to upgrade, but to be honest with dlss on most modern games, I still seem to be beating out my ps5 is terms of performance. So I’ve been dragging my feet. The rtx 480 super might be the upgrade. Waiting for that review

[@shiba7651]

At this point you could just skip this whole generation, as most graphically demanding games are quite bad nowadays

[@SimonBuchanNz]

I'm on the same and this release finally pushed me over the line, mostly because I want to check out ray reconstruction and frame generation. Getting back into high frame rate territory with less aggressive DLSS and a little less VRAM pressure are nice, but I agree not really generally worth the price.

[@mikem9536]

@@shiba7651Yeah, only reason to chase new hardware for a game is if you're a Baldur's Gate 3 fanatic.

[@shiba7651]

@@mikem9536 And not even, I can run bg3 at 4k ultra with a 6700xt

[@pkaulf]

I'm the same as you, I have my eye on the 4070 ti Super. 16GB should really be the bare minimum for new GPUs today.

[@pedrovieira8602]

At 600usd for just the gpu, being waay above console performance is the absolute minimum. You can buy a ps5 for 350 usd without having to provide cpu, ram, mobo, ssd, psu, case. AAA PC gaming nowadays is a bit prohibitive, and very hard to justify if you don't use the computer to make money.

[@yellowblanka6058]

Where are you finding a new PS5 for $350? Last I checked they're around/north of $500.

[@Zombie101]

16gb is bare minimum for a +500 dollar card in 2024

[@RealMTBAddict]

😂😂😂

[@Zombie101]

@@RealMTBAddict fr though.

[@RealMTBAddict]

@@Zombie101 not agreeing with you 😂😂

[@Zombie101]

@RealMTBAddict then you need a dose of reality. AMD achieved it. Nvidia being greedy.

[@walter_the_wobot2349]

Thanks to DLSS 2 MY 3080 Ti is coping quite admirably. When FSR3 starts popping up in more games it should carry my card into the PS6 generation.

[@jonny-b4954]

My 2070 Super is showing its age at 1080p ultra settings with the lowest ray tracing options. With DLSS

[@mint3]

vram will be a limiting factor, especially at 4k.

[@walter_the_wobot2349]

@@mint3 Not really. I’m getting 50-60fps in Jedi Survivor at 4K epic settings with Ray tracing .🙂

[@Wobbothe3rd]

FSR3 FG sucks, it's not nearly as useful as DLSS3 FG.

[@justitgstuff5284]

@@mint3 Only game that I've hit my vram cap in was TLOU at 4k, and that was from a bug that they patched out since it works fine now. I've been playing a lot of CP2077, Control, Metro Exodus, etc. and they all run nicely at 4k with DLSS and the limiting factor is GPU performance. Even Fortnite is still mostly CPU limited despite being on UE5 now, no vram problems there.

[@87crimson]

220 USD card from 2016 RX 480 had 8GB. I won't upgrade until 24 GB cards are entry level.

[@RealMTBAddict]

😂😂😂

[@Obie327]

The RTX 4070 Super might be the next "Peoples Champion" for Nvidia going forward!? I just bought an Asus Dual OC RTX 4070 Super! Thanks for the detailed informative analysis Digital Foundry!

[@zdspider6778]

What "step"? Bruh. 🤨 *It's still 12GB, still 192-bit.* There is no "step". The thermals increased by around 10 deg Celsius, the power draw increased. It's still the same chip (AD104), which is a 60-class chip.

[@mateusbarao1761]

Excellent review as always! Have you ever considered adding the director's cut mod for Control? I'm interested in how well it runs on those cards considering how much better the RT is with the mod.

[@defaltpearce3187]

A step forward and two step backward

[@angelost1467]

Honestly I would have preferred that they just drop RTX4070 to ~$450. Not sure that we need another 12GB card at 600$.

[@JamesThomasJeans]

I play at 1440p, and need to upgrade from the 2070 Super. This card seems ideal.

[@GaminylGames]

Same boat. It's still hella expensive but this is most likely the route I'm going when i can afford it!

[@CharcharoExplorer]

The Joules per frame metric is good but it isnt perfect. Since Nvidia GPUs have a somewhat higher CPU cycle penalty due to their drivers, this means that a part of what the competing Intel or AMd GPU is doing by itself is offset onto the CPU with an Nvidia GPU. Ada would STILL overall win, make no mistake. But I want this to be taken into account somehow since it isnt quite the same test.

[@NegerKim]

That would show up in the total system wattage, which I'm guessing they have cross-referenced anyway. It's kind of a moot point.

[@CharcharoExplorer]

It would but I dont see total system power usage in the video. So I dont think its a moot point. @@NegerKim

[@navpreetsingh8156]

Basically using more power you get more frames, Nvidia need to go the Apple route I know some fans won't like it but they need to shift resources onto power saving which will soon become far more important

[@Vladislav888]

>power saving which will soon become far more important Why? Do you expect energy prices go up drastically in a near future?

[@navpreetsingh8156]

@Vladislav888 Yes energy prices have gone up 100% in about 6 years and they will continue to go up but the bigger reason is mobile gaming, laptops batteries can't support high end graphics or editing because you have to plug them in, Apple M1 uses around 65w of power and in CPU terms its on par with a 200w intel chip, if Intel and Nvidia are to co exist in the future power reduction is the way forward

[@KrakenGameReviews]

​@@navpreetsingh8156 Apples M series chips are designed in house for the specific purpose they need it for and utilise ARM architecture which is generally just more efficient. Apples GPU cores suck by comparison to even budget AMD and Nvidia GPUs that use 70w or less.

[@Vladislav888]

@@navpreetsingh8156 > energy prices have gone up 100% in about 6 years and they will continue to go up It's still pennies, though. >but the bigger reason is mobile gaming I do not see why this is relevant. Nvidia already creates mobile GPUs with much lower power target and it's been doing that for decades. >Apple M1 uses around 65w of power and in CPU terms its on par with a 200w intel chip Citation needed. In which task? Compilation? Archiving? And full disclosure: I'm typing this message on an M1 machine. >if Intel and Nvidia are to co exist in the future power reduction is the way forward For the mobile GPUs? Sure. Always been. I still don't see how is it relevant for the desktop GPUs, though

[@mikem9536]

Apple is doing the same thing, adding more power for a tiny upgrade in performance.

[@Boss_Fight_Index_muki]

You know Nvidia has lost its mind when a $999 gpu is consider "reasonable"

[@shiba7651]

Not nvidia, the tech community lost it, we are nowadays considering reasonable buying $1000 gpus and smartphones, having cpus so freakishly over tuned that they need watercooling to run stock, buying early access games just to ignore them when they actually come out, if they ever do. It's getting a bit out of control

[@darkkingastos4369]

It's these KZbin cheerleaders who get free hardware from the companies and push these insane prices.

[@Viarurla]

Definitely feel as though VRAM just needs to be higher, would rather not get burned again like I was with the 3070. I feel as though even if you personally think 12gb is enough for you, you should still expect a better product considering how relatively cheap VRAM actually is

[@zerocal76]

Name of the game is planned obsolescence. Just like how phone manufacturers don't usually give u micro sd support and limit internal storage to like 256 maybe 512gbs

[@cyberrb25]

Still think that Nvidia needs a new "bang value" lineup. Especially an entry point card. Even if the finances of it (refuse to call that economics - such a high standard is not met 90% of the time) don't support it nearly as much, having some card that has the tech you want developers to exploit for the next half decade is important if you want that tech to become ubiquitous. It's hard to sell DLSS if there's still a decent amount of old cards (mine included - a 1650) that do not have the things that should be standard in games. Though I guess Nvidia would be doing that with Nintendo's new console...

[@radu19d]

Come one… 12gb vram in 2024? On 7800XT Resident Evil4 remake eats 13.4GB on 2K+RTX for settings that run the game in 60fps and 12.3GB for settings that run the game in 120-140fps… what nvidia did is a joke.

[@Nucleosynthese]

For many people that shop in this price segment the 7800XT is not an option. At these prices you want to be able to use all the bells and whistles. Sadly, the 7800XT is not capable enough for ray tracing.

[@steel5897]

Got an Asus Dual OC one for $580, pretty good deal, finally upgrading from my 3060 ti. The fact that it performs like a 3090 except drawing much less power and costing less, while having DLSS3 tech, that's good enough for me. I feel like these Super models are what the originals should have been, a 70 class GPU touching the last gen 90 (or 80 in the past) class is what I expect.

[@totalprocall6894]

It's a step in the wrong direction more like. More cores and performance isn't what was lacking. 16GB VRAM at £600+ would have been the right step. nothing above the 4060ti should be anything less than 16GB in 2024. They can also shove that 12 pin power connector where the sun don't shine!

[@4doorsmorewhors]

Of course!!! The power connector!!! How dare they!!!!

[@damientech88]

The beauty of inflation is that soon I'll be able to drive a $200,000 car and live in a $1,000,000 house.

[@BleedForTheWorld]

KZbin reviewers continuing to manufacture consent by claiming that it's "a step in the right direction". You can't be saying that a 4060 is not enough and then go on and say that the card refresh is a good thing because this is what a 4070 non-Super should have been from the start.

[@dannykim1462]

Remember when mobo was 200-300 for high end, cpu was 200-250 for high end and GPU was 600-700 for the highest trims :(

[@jawknee4088]

It’s honestly tragic dude. $1k used to be enough for an absolute beast of a PC build, but nowadays at that price point you can barely scrape the mid-range. Cost of living gets higher and higher yet these greedy scumbags just keep pushing these outrageous prices. PC hardware market is a shell of what it once was. I used to be so passionate about PC hardware, but the moment the prices went haywire I lost most interest because I simply couldn’t afford to participate anymore.

[@KrakenGameReviews]

Crazy that we're 3 generations into ray tracing and we still can't run games at 1440p max ray tracing and get framerates above 60.

[@drunkhusband6257]

A 4060ti or 4070 can easily get over 60fps 1440p max ray tracing with DLSS quality and frame generation.

[@KrakenGameReviews]

​@@drunkhusband6257 I was moreso talking about the 4070 ti, an $800 card. Look at 5:09 or 6:21. The 1070 ti would crush games at 1080p back in the day, and even 1440p was fine back then. Now these cards can easily get over 60fps 1440p max ray tracing by running at a lower internal resolution and framerate and using processing to upscale both.... So, they can't do either natively. Nvidia has pushed ray tracing way way before the tech was really ready and are using clever tech to obscure the shortcomings. I love DLSS. It's amazing technology, but it does detract from the "feats" of these cards when ray tracing.

[@drunkhusband6257]

Native actually looks worse than dlss quality, because we have to use crappy anti aliasing techniques. I'll use whatever gives me framerate without sacrificing quality.@@KrakenGameReviews

[@jesseslack2089]

Rofl with "I could go on and to be honest I will" Just the way Rich says it makes laugh!

[@pkaulf]

I'm looking to upgrade from the 2070 Super. The performance of the 4070 Super is ideal, but ideally I want a card that's going to last me 5 years again, and I know that 12GB VRAM is not going to cut it, having made that mistake with the 8GB on the 2070S. Looks like I'm saving up for a 4070 Ti Super then.

[@deuswulf6193]

You could also get a used 3090, I have seen them go for pretty cheap, though it takes a bit of hunting. Should last you awhile until Blackwell comes out, and at that point Nvidia will have no option to but to jack up vram sizes. Alternatively Intel's battlemage will be coming out sometime towards the end of this year, and the AMD options are not too shabby on the high end, assuming you don't need the nvidia specific benefits. That said the 4070 ti and 4080 are solid bets.

[@alansilva4211]

@DF Clips @Digital Foundry where can I find those settings at 17:24? Can you guys share please 😂

[@theandroids]

A 12GB mid tier, yet HIGH END priced card in 2024 is a step in the right direction?! I don't think people that actually buy their gpu's feel the same.

[@purebaldness]

Curiously, Richard's accent sounds English but the way he says certain words sounds American. I'd be curious to see an explanation for this.

[@pablo3558]

600€ for 12gb vram is not a step in the right direction, for next aaa games you can only run low textures

[@IncredibleLyrics]

Thats simply not true?

[@TheFMCFG]

I really liked the PS5 comparison, but what about an older high-end card like the 2080 Ti for example?

[@dieard1]

Just fitted my msi 4070 super to my virtual pinball cabinet. Cracking card!

[@kordman916]

Weird flex but okay

[@dieard1]

@@kordman916 “it’s a cracking card” how’s that flexing? Theres allot of people out there that build virtual pinball machines and GPU’s are a major factor.

[@Lorenzo_That_Vegan_Dad]

Imagine spending thousands of dollars on a PC just for your games to run like shit.

[@Dynasty1818]

Imagine spending the same money on a "next gen" console that can't do over 30 FPS in fidelity modes, so everyone plays on performance.

[@thanos2715]

Exactly, and its not as if you will have a worse experience on a console/lowest recommended specs. Sure extra performance is nice, but it doesnt matter if you are running it on lower end hardware because you will get used to the worse perfomance and will have a great time playing the exact same game anyway. An easy analogy is audiophiles for example. Sure they have the best of the best headphones/lossless music, but does it correlate to enjoying music more than the average music listener? No it does not

[@awsomeboy360]

@@Dynasty1818 lolol that is not remotely true. Current gen consoles cost less than 500 dollars.

[@J00001]

🤓

[@Mussi93]

​@@Dynasty1818But a console doesn't cost over a thousand dollars.

[@RomanSpinella]

No, it's not a step in the right direction. Is less bullshit than the awful 4070? Kinda. I have an 3080 since october 2020, the 4070s launched almost 3 and a half years later with almost the same performance and costing 100 usd less. The OG 4070 should have cost 500 usd with this kind of performance and 16gb of vram.

[@TTOOS]

Pricing still awful!!!

[@ArthurM1863]

Remember everyone: the more you buy the more you save!

[@ReachTea]

Does Ultra Ray Tracing in Cyberpunk mean Path tracing?

[@sodapopinksi667]

No, it's the 2nd highest 'regular' RT setting, below 'Psycho'

[@hatserl]

The review in simple words is 8-10 Fps increase compared to RTX 4070

[@omgitsbees]

For cyberpunk, if you use DLSS, you'll get into the 100+ FPS range for the RTX 4070ti.

[@zergilli9719]

Just ordered the white Asus Dual 4070 Super OC. It came out to $687 with taxes and shipping included. A heavy price to pay but I think it will pair really well with my i5 13600kf and 5600 DDR5 ram.

[@nicknickname353]

you got the perfect machine for 1440p gaming enjoy it man

[@totalprocall6894]

Yikes! 12gb for that money in 2024 would have me waking up in cold sweats. But enjoy man!

[@zergilli9719]

@@totalprocall6894 I figure the card will last me 3-4 years and I can upgrade again then when things are different. Right now, the 4070 runs every game well in 1440p which is what I needed.

[@mrpositronia]

Why does Digital Foundry, a UK-based channel, mention prices in dollars?

[@Safetytrousers]

Because they also speak English in the USA, and there are 5 times more people there.

[@mrpositronia]

@@Safetytrousers Pfft. Favouritism.

[@Safetytrousers]

It makes sense to use the currency of the majority of their viewers.@@mrpositronia

[@BlindBison]

> Still only 12 Gigs of VRAM in 2024 for $600 Yeah, that’s gonna be a pass for me dog