Should I Wear a Rescue PFD With a Rescue Harness?

[@richardweiss6181]

Great information, as always. Regarding floatation, I feel it’s important to practice self-rescue using the whatever boat and PFD you plan to take down the river to be sure you are able to do it. Strength/fitness, tube size, and floatation are all factors. If you are using a boat with larger-diameter tubes, you’ll likely find that you need more floatation to help you reach whatever you have rigged in your boat to help you get yourself in.

[@GearGarageTV]

Yes I think active self-rescue and physical fitness are crucial to boaters

[@roddymacisaac5571]

I just find that having the extra floatation is a added bonus also being able to keep the jacket more secure.

[@allenyip9199]

Thanks for putting good content on the internet. You are doing a great job. Rescue vest IMO are built tougher and straps generally perform better in pull test. I am specifically targeting the shoulder straps, some pfd are better than others. Keep up the good content. I look forward to seeing more.

[@nickminor5594]

I believe it’s better to have it and not need it then need it and not have it. I carry lots of equipment I have trained with and fortunately not needed to use. Examples being my rescue pfd, cpr breathing barrier, tourniquet, quick clot and the list goes on. Maybe it’s just the old Eagle Scout in me but I like to be prepared for fun and be prepared when things go south.

[@GearGarageTV]

Even if you’ve never trained with it?

[@Smarticus13745]

Curious to know what you carry in your pfd. Want to add some things

[@shawnphillipsyoga]

@@GearGarageTV quick clot and tourniquet, yes absolutely. do try elevating and pressure first, but if you can't stop bleeding in the field, that's life-threatening. quick clot and clotting gauze require no training, and modern tourniquets are straightforward (and you can practice on a rolled up towel). modern 1st aid protocol suggests a tourniquet can be applied for 6 hours without causing permanent damage.

[@dgiroday1]

Hi Zach, I agree with your points. I recognize that a rescue PFD has a purpose. ex. live bait rescue. I think that many inexperienced boaters who lack formal training, wear them as river jewelry. In general the harness is to improve the safety of the other boaters not the person wearing it. The user is lured into performing more advanced and riskier rescues and equipment retrieval, because they have this tool. Examples are live bait rescue and towing a boat (instead of bulldozing). In general, it isn't about getting themselves out of trouble. Yes there are exceptions! If you have a rescue PFD you need to get the proper training and then practice, practice, practice. In general, hands on skills diminish a lot faster than knowledge. I mainly paddle (packraft) up to max class 3- and intentionally do not use a rescue PFD because it is more weight which makes a swim worse. I also don't want extra things making re-entry into the packraft difficult. Maximizing my ability of getting back into my boat is orders of magnitude more important that being able to perform a live bait rescue. Basically, I prioritize my safety above all else. I also acknowledge that some rescue PFDs are better designed to minimize having the harness components on the front of the PFD. If I was a kayaking trip leader, guide, experienced paddler, etc., I would probably wear one.

[@GearGarageTV]

The rescue harness has been used as an attachment point to save several people pinned hardshell kayakers. I'd say it can be useful for the person wearing it and to help others.

[@JustinBaker2567]

At a SWR course, my instructor talked about a stand up paddle board using his rescue PFD to lease to his paddleboard who drowned because he the webbing had too much tension and would not release properly.

[@GearGarageTV]

Thanks for sharing

[@joshkelly3743]

I realy like the feel of that strap. It just feels.safe .

[@Burritosarebetterthantacos]

Im a firefighter in a kayaking town and I can tell you unequivocally that the majority of the “rescue” guys arent whitewater guys or climbers. Many of the unspoken safety rules we have on the river dont crossover well. The majority of tactics are based on reducing liability and less on efficiency. My personal setup for river running and climbing is so much better than our municipal technical rescue kits. I was a raft guide for a season in NC and my kit was a minimal vest and chacos! Biggest issue I see is new boaters buy a rescue vest without understanding its actual purpose, and a big ass knife lashed next to their jugular. Ive had a greenjacket for years but I will admit I usually want more flotation.

[@sgolsen]

I'm primarily a kayaker but will be doing some rafting and I'm looking to replace my old MTI PFD. I've also got the dad-bod you mentioned in the video so the low floatation of the Green/Blue Jacket are not what I'm looking for. The Hiko Guardian 3D has increased floatation (19.1 lbs for L/XL and 20.23 lbs for XXL) but is a rescue vest. It's also about the price of the Blue Jacket. Is there a reason that it would be a bad idea for someone without training to use a rescue vest like that for the increased floatation and just remove the rescue belt until they've received training?

[@GearGarageTV]

You could probably remove the rescue harness

[@theeoarsman921]

I use my Kokatat Rescue Guide Vest while paddle boarding should I need to release my leash.

[@robinlevick7246]

The palm doesn't have a belt at the bottom to cinch below ribs and keep it from riding up. I was told in sweetwater training that is an essential feature. What's your perspective on that? I'm trying to decide between the kokotat maximus centurion and the stolquist descent and the HustleR

[@GearGarageTV]

The palm does have a belt below the ribs

[@danrichmond7611]

Zach, I always appreciate your insights, attention to details, and discussion around the nuance of these topics. These types of discussions only make our community better. You’re not an idiot.

[@GearGarageTV]

Thanks!

[@timstone3585]

green jacket has 16.4 blue jacket has 15.8 pounds of float mate!

[@dolanpatj]

I'm glad you did this video. I'll be in my Astral Greenjacket for the first time in about a month on the Deschutes floating and fly fishing with a new pair of packrafts. I debated myself whether I really needed it - I think it added 2 pounds to my pack load over the non-harness option - so I'm eager to find out for myself if it was worth the bother. If it's a warm day, i'll probably check the buoyancy at the lower end of Whitehorse 🚣‍♀️ 🏊‍♂️🥶

[@ryanhenderson8503]

It was my understanding that "huskier" people could use the same amount of floatation because fat was less dense than muscle and bone? Have i been mislead

[@GearGarageTV]

That sounds like fake news to me. I'm sure fat floats a little better but not an amount to justify having less flotation in your PFD.

[@ryanhenderson8503]

@@GearGarageTV yeah i didn't mean " less" floatation, i can't figure out how to word it haha

[@franzellers8966]

As someone who has grown in the past few years, I did some "research" on this. What I took away was that fat is (very) roughly equal to .9 specific gravity so every ten pounds of fat would give the equivalent of 1lb of float. So, carrying around 30lbs of fat would equal 3lbs of float. That being said, I think in a river environment with moving currents the extra surface area and likelihood of being "out of shape" while carrying that weight would lead to a negligible difference in float and a negative difference in performance.

[@ryanhenderson8503]

I guess my point is an average whitewater PFD has about 15 to 18 lbs of floatation when when the bones of an average human weigh about 15 lbs if your only 100 lbs now your body is also about 60 to 70 percent water depending on what statistics you go by but your bones alone only leave with about 2 lbs. Of floatation if your only 100 lbs so guy over 200 lbs is already screwed unless hes got a PFD with 30 lbs of floatation

[@andrewr8042]

Bringing in a little anecdotal evidence from the SCUBA world where buoyancy (and exactly the right amount of it) are important, I can tell you that a "huskier" person, all other things equal, does require additional weight to both sink and maintain control while under water. Every circumstance is different, but there ARE way to dial this in if you have a standard clothing situation that you wear on the river. As someone who has also spent around 70 seconds underwater during a nasty Skull Rapid swim, I will also tell you that we aren't SCUBA diving here and agree with Zach that I would have liked more than my little Lotus with 16 lbs. that day.

[@andrewbrown6522]

Im nowhere near qualified to do a water rescue but knowing my luck ill need it with the amount of time ive been spending on the water lately. I agree on land or water - not a fan of tethers although i use them more as i age for gear. I should probably invest in a better vest this year, whatever i decide on. Im always solo so more float is better imo even though i hate bulk.

[@brianfrykman7454]

Hi! Great channel! Do you have any opinion on the Czech made Hiko Guardian 3.D pfd with a 19.3 lb floatation rescue rig for a size L/XL. They are being so,d in the USA already.

[@GearGarageTV]

The look awesome but since they are not Coast Guard approved it's hard to recommend them.

[@peterbenedict6363]

I think about it like a throw rope. I don't use it often but when you need it you need it. People need to practice with them to be safe. Finally, ,in general, people want to complicate rescues by introducing ropes or clipping into a boat when it is not necessary, therefore making it more dangerous.

[@GearGarageTV]

Do you train with yours often?

[@RobertDuggins-rs2oc]

You should send one of these rescue pfds to the “hownot2” guy. Maybe he’ll test it for us

[@GearGarageTV]

I've reached out to them and they are too busy to take on new projecs

[@shawnphillipsyoga]

the rescue webbing and steel ring should only be used for being the live bait (or, towing a boat or unconscious swimmer) ... either way, it's always on the rescuer's side of things. please don't clip a carabiner into the ring of a victim's PFD, unless there is no way for a rescuer to get hands-on (and the victim clips themselves in). if you don't ever plan to be the live bait yourself, the webbing and ring are extraneous even for a certified swiftwater tech participating in a rescue. if you only need the increased floatation of a rescue pfd ... GREAT ... you can always pull the webbing and ring off.

[@human.rationally]

Any recommendations on a pfd with a decent amount of room for gear with good flotation?

[@GearGarageTV]

Nope. The PFD you’re asking about doesn’t exist.

[@Smarticus13745]

Astral blue jacket

[@cjwaasdorp2478]

@@GearGarageTV assuming we're talking type v... You don't think your mustang survival has room for gear and good floatation? That thing is a beast! 25lbs of buoyancy and those radio pockets... Plus MOLLE for days. Not saying you should attach lots of stuff to it but on that vest you can

[@cjwaasdorp2478]

Rafting in the NRG we needed the tether to rescue two boaters who's raft went into/under an undercut rock in double z. We could only get so close with boats. It can be beneficial while rafting. It's absolutely imperitive though, that you only wear one after you've taken SWR L4 and have practiced. If you haven't trained with it, don't use it. And only thread it as per the manufacturer. Don't listen to the "rescue professional" that does it differently.

[@GearGarageTV]

Did you use it to save people or to save equipment?

[@cjwaasdorp2478]

@@GearGarageTV boaters, not boats. (2 people, not equipment). We also had to get the boat afterward but that did not require a person on tether.

[@JpWi]

Nice information, but I feel your views on buoyancy ratings are a bit flawed. While extra floatation is nice for when the water is less buoyant (due to aeration), the body is more or less neutrally buoyant. The point of the PFD is to keep you properly oriented and to float your head which weights approximately 10 pounds, so add a few pounds for a safety factor and you get to 15.5 pounds, which is the USCG spec for type III PFDs. Type I PFDs have 22 pounds of buoyancy because they are designed for deep water with large waves, a higher risk of becoming incapacitated, and longer rescue times. More floatation is nice, but too much floatation is too hot and cumbersome.

[@GearGarageTV]

You "feel" my views are a bit flawed? Feel? I "feel" your comment is spreading misinformation . Type III PFD are not intended to keep your properly oriented and float your head. They are designed in a way to allow you to actively swim (self rescue) on your stomach. A Type I PFD is designed to turn an unconscious swimmer on their back as you mentioned. Type I PFDs are not appropriate for whitewater paddlers. Yes too much flotation can be cumbersome. And too little flotation may not be enough to properly keep your head above the water's surface. There is a sweet spot above the minimum that allows people to actively self rescue AND keep their head above water.

[@JpWi]

@@GearGarageTV a type III PFD is intended to hold a conscious person in an upright position where breathing is unimpeded, which would be their head out of the water. Trying to properly freestyle in one is difficult precisely because it’s trying to put you vertical in the water. As far as the coasties are concerned, rescuing is their job or that of a local rescue squad. They just want the PFD to hold you in a stable position until help arrives. If you can safely self rescue due to the PFDs aid, that’s great. I will also concede that the standard is more so written for calm/flat water where if you fall out in the middle of a lake, rescuers have all the time in the world to get to you. That’s less practical in a whitewater sense.

[@GearGarageTV]

@@JpWi You are speaking like you know what you're talking about but you have made several comments that are wrong? Do you really know what you're talking about or is this how you "feel?"

[@GearGarageTV]

@@JpWi Here is the location of facts about PFDs: uscgboating.org/recreational-boaters/life-jacket-wear-wearing-your-life-jacket.php

[@JpWi]

@@GearGarageTV my apologies, I’m on the East coast. Your own source answers your questions. Consider the performance types and design sections as my sources.

[@weirdbeard1980]

Unrelated but definitely a topic that would be a great to delve into. Gear theft. Last night someone tried to steal my boat right off my trailer which is now the second time someone has tried to do that. I had it locked so they weren't able to get it but a guy down the street from me had his boat stolen right out of his garage. And another buddy of mine had his stolen from the put in when we were doing our car ferry.

[@GearGarageTV]

I have never had this problem and I leave my stuff unattended all the time. Where to do you live?

[@weirdbeard1980]

@@GearGarageTV I live in Truckee. I'm kind of surprised that you've never encountered this. Different areas I guess but I grew up not far from the Skykomish and I know that theft is a problem at the parking areas for put in and pull out there.

[@mark.mahorney]

Hide an air tag on your boat, put in in a ziplock and duct tape it under your seat or frame somewhere

[@robgrey6183]

"A man's gotta know his limitations...."

[@Inspectorjb]

Furthest from being an idiot! Just your thoughts which are very valuable and appreciated in my opinion. Thanks Zach! Missed you at OWA water safety this last weekend! Best regards!