One of the Most Admired and Crafted Motorcoach Designs of all Time! [UK Bus History]

[@henryjohnfacey8213]

Beautiful design. Drove a few of these at one time or another. Thanks for a very well researched. Thank you.

[@JeffreyOrnstein]

Hello! I'm really glad you liked this video!! Must have been great to drive! Thanks for watching!

[@duncan649]

Thanks Jeffrey for another interesting video. As a child I remember the Cavaliers lined up at Victoria coach station, London in the early seventies. We were travelling to Colchester in Essex. They were operated by Grey Green a now defunct inter city coach service. The thing I remember vividly as a child was the unique 'smiley' moulding on the front. I also remember the revving and diesel fumes. Marvellous!

[@JeffreyOrnstein]

Hello! I'm really glad you liked the video!! And thanks for the memories of the Cavaliers!! Thanks for watching!

[@billmmckelvie5188]

I recall the day when a National Railway strike was on. My dad a Railway man had booked his holiday well before the strike. We went by bus excursion coach to Blackpool and I could not believe the number of coaches. Now the British Coaches had 2 different type of operators. There was the Service bus operator and the other was private. The coach depot in Blackpool muat have had 250 coaches in the Coach park. To help you remember you had Coaches marked A,B,and C all from the same departure point run by the same coach/bus compny. Fortunately for me our Bus Coach operator service was a small one so we would get just a coach A & B. You would all these luxurious coaches from Plaxtins, Duple and Harrinton all with panoramic windows and all bejewlled with chrome chrome work, squeezed into the coach park.

[@JeffreyOrnstein]

Hello! Wow, thanks for all those coaching memories! Must have been an awesome sight!!! Thanks for watching!

[@northstar1950]

Thomas Harrington was owned by the Rootes group when it closed. Very good coverage, one way to identify them is by the top of the windscreens. The cavalier screen in lower and the roof dips slightly whereas the Grenadier has a more peaked roofline and a taller screen.

[@JeffreyOrnstein]

Hello! Yes, that's a good way to tell the difference between the two models! Thanks for watching!

[@StephenAllcroft]

However the first ten Grenadiers for Barton Transport had Cavalier windscreens to enable a destination screen and triple route number blind box to be fitted above it. For every rule about these two coaches there's an exception.

[@bingbong7316]

Ah, maybe Rootes ownership explains the rather sudden closure - it's rather sad and does look like one of those myopic beancounter moves to which Boeing are accustomed.. whoops!

[@StephenAllcroft]

@@bingbong7316 Rootes ownership is often alleged but this is not quite correct, The owner of Thomas Harrington Ltd when the Sackville works was closed was Robins and Day Ltd. They were a car dealership chain owned by the Rootes family, independent of The Rootes Group. In 1968 they started to import Peugeot into the UK.

[@petersmith4455]

Southdown Motors had the cavalier coaches on Leyland chassis with 4 spoke steering wheel, i remember them as a child, lovely coaches, as i lived in sussex,

[@JeffreyOrnstein]

Thanks for the Southdown Cavalier memories!! Thanks for watching!

[@stevedickson5853]

Sculptured beautys on wheels.

[@johncourtneidge]

Yes!

[@JeffreyOrnstein]

Yes, they certainly were!! Thanks for watching!

[@derekantill3721]

I travelled hundreds of miles on Leyland Harrington Cavaliers of Grey Green coaches in the 1950’s/60’s a very good coach at the time.

[@JeffreyOrnstein]

Hello! Thanks for you memories of the Cavaliers! Thank you for watching!!

[@StephenAllcroft]

Thanks for the video. As the creator of the Wikipedia article you've cited I can only see one omission. There were six Cavalier bodies that weren't on AEC or Leyland, these were Albion Aberdonians supplied to Charlie's Cars of Bournemouth. Charles Pounder only bought two coaches that weren't Harrington bodied Albions in his lifetime. Although the company was based in Bournemouth it's registered office was at Mr Pounder's accountant in Brighton, so the six were registered there, 1175-80CD and delivered in June 1960

[@JeffreyOrnstein]

Hello! Thanks for the additional info. I took the production info from another site, so I'm not sure why they didn't have it, as it is a site dedicated to Harrington. Great wikipedia article! Thanks so much for watching!

[@EdsWorld56]

Excellent informative video. Sadly I never got to travel in one

[@JeffreyOrnstein]

Hello! Really glad you liked the video!!! I never rode one, either, LOL! Thank you very much for watching!!!

[@ergotot45]

An interesting and informative video....well done! I have owned 4 Grenadiers in my lifetime. I think one of them MMY991C still survives in 2024

[@JeffreyOrnstein]

Hello! I'm really happy you liked the video!! Wow, owned 4 Grenadiers?? That must be awesome!! Thanks so much for watching!!

[@jeffclark2725]

Thumbs up, great video, if they did not make coaches anymore, then would have been insparation for the next company in line to take over

[@JeffreyOrnstein]

Really glad you liked the video!! These coaches must have been the inspiration for something later on!! Thanks for watching!

[@autumnmatthews3179]

Thanks again for an interesting video, and your focus on the UK bus history. It's fascinating to see the buses we used to have here, especially with them all looking a bit dull in comparison today

[@JeffreyOrnstein]

Hello! Yes, buses today look all the same....sort of! Thanks for watching!

[@GibbonsChannel]

Wonderful - I went to grammar school in Hove, which was the home of Harrington, and frequently saw Harrington-bodied Southdown coaches on the seafront at Brighton

[@JeffreyOrnstein]

Hello! I'm really glad you liked the video!! Thanks for watching!

[@timbounds7190]

Strange story, really. The company had produced the Cavalier/Grenadier which were very widely liked and sold well, and the Legionnaire which was quite ground breaking and sold decent numbers - and yet they shut up shop! And it was in the 60s when the general economy and coach market were doing pretty well, not in the 70s when problems began. Well, they say 'leave them wanting more' !! Thanks

[@JeffreyOrnstein]

Hello! Yes, it was odd....even though they had lots of continual sales, they had no money to create a successor model! Thanks for watching!

[@StephenAllcroft]

The parent company of Harrington at the time the coachbuilders were closed was car dealership Robins and Day Ltd, the Old Shoreham Road site was cramped and inconvenient for 36' coaches, so the decision was taken to cease coachbuilding and carry on as a car dealership.

[@jamesfrench7299]

@@StephenAllcroft it must have been deemed not profitable enough for all the trouble of running a bus building business. Crazy decision all the same.

[@StephenAllcroft]

@@jamesfrench7299 You think that's crazy, consider Saunders-Roe. Their only profitable business was coachbuilding and they closed the factory to concentrate on jet and turboprop flying boats, helicopters rocket planes and hovercraft. They must have considered buses beneath their dignity or something.

[@jamesfrench7299]

@@StephenAllcroft English can be an odd bunch.

[@MelanieRuck-dq5uo]

Yet another great video from Geoffrey.

[@JeffreyOrnstein]

Thank you, Melanie! I'm really glad you liked it! Thanks for watching!

[@paulbennell3313]

Such good looking coaches.

[@JeffreyOrnstein]

Yes they were!! Thanks for watching!

[@davidjones332]

Thomas Harrington was the Rootes Group agent in Hove before being taken over by Rootes themselves, and built more than coaches, they also produced a fastback conversion of the Sunbeam Alpine sports car, now very rare and much sought-after. I still remember a family holiday in Newquay which included a trip on the immaculate Hawkey's AEC, now thankfully in preservation.

[@JeffreyOrnstein]

Thank you for the additional information! And thanks for watching!

[@gar6446]

My Dad worked there. He also helped maintain some historic vehicles they had, including Montys staff car he told me. Plus the bosses speed boat which had an inboard V-8.

[@davidjones332]

@@gar6446 Montgomery used two Humber Super Snipes during the war. "Old Faithful" M239459 he used in North Africa and Italy, which was the car the Rootes Group kept. His second car, M239485, was used from D-Day to the end of the war and was dubbed "The Victory Car". Both are now preserved.

[@johnstacey3814]

Thanks for another great video featuring a very nice coach body, have you considered featuring the rare Duple Continental another quality coach built at Blackpool in the Burlingam factory

[@JeffreyOrnstein]

Hello! I'm really glad you liked the video! The Duple Continental looks quite interesting, I will look into it!! Thanks for watching!

[@chaam4736]

Excellent job Jeffrey. Well done.

[@JeffreyOrnstein]

Hello!! I'm really glad you liked the video!!! Thanks for watching!

[@1701_FyldeFlyer]

Ribble and Abbott's coaches, local to me, had a number of Cavaliers. They were nice coaches and had the opportunity to ride on them a number of times. I think Abbott's had the AEC engined version while Ribble had the Leyland engines.

[@JeffreyOrnstein]

Thanks for the Cavalier memories!! Thanks for watching!

[@jamesfrench7299]

Another bus I would not normally delve into on first sight you made into interesting viewing - yet again. Great job considering your limited sources. I've never seen a factory with an ornate office block frontage emanating a factory section behind it. They shut up shop just when modernising designs was about to ramp up. Love that so many were built on AEC chassis with the kidney dashboard visible on the outside. Interesting to see the London Transport style rear wheel cover used on these coaches.

[@JeffreyOrnstein]

Hello, I'm glad you liked the video!! And again, thanks so much for watching!!

[@crabbymilton390]

Yes its fun to play the what if game. Certainly an elegant coach. Too bad they couldn’t find a buyer. Regardless another interesting and informative video Jeffery.

[@JeffreyOrnstein]

Hello! I'm glad you liked the video!! And thanks again for watching!!

[@thestocktonflyer4059]

Great video Jeff 😊 these coaches are truly art on wheels 👌

[@JeffreyOrnstein]

Thank you, I'm really glad you liked it!! Thanks for watching!

[@jadeboswell-rz2ly]

Hi Jeffrey, you may take a look at Carry on abroad film, which shows a Harrington and is amusing. There's lots of interior shoots.Enjoyed your video. Thank you.

[@JeffreyOrnstein]

Hello! I'm really glad you liked the video!! Thanks for watching!

[@Stemax1960]

The Cavalier that I travelled to school on was 1632 NO. This was new to Frank Harris of Grays in 1958 with a Duple Britannia C41C body. It was rebodied in 1963 with a Harrington Cavalier C43F body.

[@JeffreyOrnstein]

Thanks for the Cavalier memories! Thanks for watching!

[@stanleybest8833]

Aside from the irreplaceable windows, these Harrington's were easy on the eyes. One Alfred Hitchcock movie shows a lot of busses. Sabotage, recommended by the Humanities Film Forum.

[@JeffreyOrnstein]

Hello! Oh, have to try to check out that film, thanks for that info! Thanks for watching!

[@stevenmacdonald9619]

I believe the Greater Manchester Museum of Transport (Queen St.) has a perfect operating Harrington Cavalier, which is still used for running days.

[@JeffreyOrnstein]

That's awesome that they have one restored!!! Thanks for watching!

[@stevenmacdonald9619]

@@JeffreyOrnstein kzbin.info/www/bejne/mILZaYOebJmnaZosi=IO3gzSXpEaF8IH0M I've just watched the video again. On second look (thanks to your fine description of their rear light clusters), they have one of each model.

[@TheAllMightyGodofCod]

Any one of your viewers, anyone of your viewers, Jeffrey! 😉 Nice video! Keep them coming!

[@JeffreyOrnstein]

I'm really happy you liked the video!! Thank you for watching!!!

[@tango22ah]

Where are you finding all these brilliant classic coaches? Absolutely love your videos Jeffrey

[@JeffreyOrnstein]

Thank you!! I'm really glad you like my videos!! Thanks for watching!

[@bobanob1967]

In my eyes any coach beauty contest is easily won by a Cavalier, even better in Southdown livery.

[@JeffreyOrnstein]

Oh yes, that Southdown green is beautiful! Thanks for watching!

[@ROCKINGMAN]

Nice little documentary on this bus type. Always thought they were very stylish and the AEC version were great since AEC's are a favorite of mine. Wondered where the name came from as they were both are soldiers. The lines of these vehicles are very classic and stylish.

[@StephenAllcroft]

@@ROCKINGMAN They also produced a Crusader and a Legionnaire at the time.

[@JeffreyOrnstein]

Glad you liked the video! And thank you for watching again!!

[@northernblue1093]

Another excellent video, especially so since it was produced so far away from the subject matter.

[@JeffreyOrnstein]

Thank you, I appreciate your comment and thanks for watching again!

[@helenlloyd6564]

I remember as a child a company named N & C coaches. Neath and Cardiff, operated out from a depot in Britton Ferry. The buses were called the brown bombers, their livery was chocolate brown and red. The design of the coaches can only be described as beautiful. However the colour brown and red didn't do the caches justice. They had the Harrington Cavaliers in their fleet. I bought a V.H.S. video about the company N & C. If anyone is interested in acquiring this video free of charge please leave a message on here.

[@JeffreyOrnstein]

Oh yes, N&C coaches were beautiful in those colors! Thanks for watching!

[@NickRatnieks]

I suppose as Harrington was based in Hove, it was inevitable that Southdown would use the coachworks just down the road. As a kid in Southsea I saw plenty of Southdown buses and coaches- many being bodied by Harrington.

[@JeffreyOrnstein]

Thanks for the memories of Southdown - looks like it was a great system! Thanks for watching!

[@glenjones6980]

The Cavalier front panel moulding line at 12:15 is not unlike the front of the Hillman Imp with the brows over the lights apparent on both vehicles. As both were owned by the Rootes Group it's perhaps not surprising but production periods didn't overlap and obviously they are completely different classes of vehicle.

[@JeffreyOrnstein]

Hello! Yes, you are right...very similar moldings!! Maybe they had the same designer. Thanks for watching!

[@StephenAllcroft]

A slight but common misconception. Harrington sold Rootes Group cars, and worked with Rootes on the Alpine coupe and the PSV minibus version of the FC van but were not directly owned by the Rootes group. After passing out of Harrington family control they were purchased by Robins and Day Ltd who were owned by the Rootes family but a separate business from Rootes group.

[@robredz]

Superb series on UK coaches Jeffrey one question what was the usual specification for the USA Greyhound long distance buses were any on Flxable chassis and what was the cruising speed? Why not look up the Midland Red coaches designed for 100 mph cruise on the newly opened M1 for the Llandudno to London service?

[@JeffreyOrnstein]

Hello! I'm really glad you like my videos!! The long-distance Greyhound buses were mainly built entirely by MCI (Motorcoach Industries). I believe I do know the Midland Red bus you are describing, maybe it can be a subject of a future video. Thanks for watching!!

[@robredz]

@@JeffreyOrnstein I knew a bus driver who retired to North Wales from the West Midlands who actually drove those express buses, he is sadly mo longer with us but John also did a trip to Cardiff from North Wales to celebrate the introduction of free bus travel in Wales for Pensioners I have a copy of the news report video can't seem to find it online. to give a link What was the maximum and cruising speed of the Greyhounds Jeffrey? Likely they had more power than the UK 100mph buses.

[@dminalba]

The 1964 Bedford VAL14 Harrington Legionnaire was famously used in the 1969 comedy caper The Italian Job starring Michael Caine, also co-starring Noel Coward in his last acting role and Benny Hill. At that time Bedford was GM’s British bus & truck division which used the Vauxhall logo, Vauxhall was GM’s British division from 1925 until 2017 and Opel was GM’s division in Germany from 1929, PSA (Citroen & Peugeot) purchased Vauxhall & Opel in 2017 and merged with Fiat/Chrysler to become the Stellantis group in 2021, before the late 1970s Vauxhall & Opel had different vehicles from each other and by 1980 all Vauxhalls & Opels were all the same designs, Bedford ended production in 1986 and the truck division became AWD after new owners continued production of Bedford’s heavy trucks, the bus division wasn’t continued, light trucks were continued under the Bedford brand until 1990. The last new models were the Bedford Midi (a rebadged Isuzu Fargo) and the Bedford Rascal (rebadged Suzuki Carry)

[@JeffreyOrnstein]

Hello! Thanks for all of the corporate info!! Could get confusing, LOL. Thanks for watching!

[@johncourtneidge]

Thank-you! Beautiful! A point on pronunciation. Here in the UK, we pronounce 'chassis' as 'shash-ee'. Among my favourite Caveliers were those of Maidstone and District and Southdown. But they *all* looked superb, what-ever the livery: a credit to the design. Again, thank-you. Ps do I recall correctly that 7' 6"-wide models were made for Grey Cars for us on nartow Devon and Dartmoor lanes. Models also?

[@JeffreyOrnstein]

Hello! I'm really happy you liked the video!! You are right about the narrow-width coaches for Grey Cars - looking back, maybe I should have mentioned it! As for the pronunciation, it's hard to break the New York way of saying things. Thanks for watching!

[@philhealey4443]

Remembering Grey Cars depot near Walkhampton as a sub ten year old around 1970, their possibly older fleet then seemed a bit more exotic and curvaceous than the possibly newer and more angular Wallace Arnold rival machines ?

[@ian_b]

I've often wondered how (motor) coaches and buses got to be distinct things. Both are passenger vehicles with many seats. Both can be used for a single journey or regular route. Is there a textbook distinction?🤔

[@icenijohn2]

Buses: short-distance (e.g. city or shorter rural) journeys, mostly used for timetabled services, high-density seating and/or standee space, power-operated door, route number and destination signs, lower comfort level, lower geared (slower). Coaches: longer-distance journeys, often used for ad-hoc charters, comfortable seating with more legroom, sometimes a manually-operated door, room for luggage, higher geared, etc etc. The word "coach" is used in USA, but not necessarily for long-distance commercial buses; it's often used for private motorhomes (RVs) and bus conversions.

[@johncourtneidge]

@@icenijohn2 and the influence of tax advantages on coaches that could be used on Stage Carriage (bus routes). The identifier was usually a folding door, driver operated.

[@JeffreyOrnstein]

Good question....and there's good answers!! Thanks for watching!

[@declan1962]

i had no interest in coaches until I came across your channel. Now I want to own one!!- and an american has caused this...amazing!!👍🤣🤣

[@JeffreyOrnstein]

Hello! I'm really happy you liked my video and thanks so much for watching!

[@JTA1961]

Interesting that in South America repainted "school busses" are used by cities for public transportation... sometimes when I'm driving my blue & white bluebird in Tucson (on the wrong side of the tracks) groups will stand up & become upset when I go past.

[@JeffreyOrnstein]

LOL, that's pretty funny. Maybe you start your own bus service, although I'm sure the authorities will not be so approving... Thanks for watching!

[@kbtred51]

Better than AI but reading Wiki? "The Grenadier was the last coach built by Harrington before they closed their Sackville factory in North London in 1966." Several coach builders in West London so do not know what you are conflating there. Harrington were based at their HQ and factory in Hove. In 1930 a purpose-built factory known as Sackville Works was constructed at Old Shoreham Road. (The south coast of England next to Brighton in Sussex.)

[@JeffreyOrnstein]

Sorry you didn't like my video, but thanks for watching, anyway.

I much prefer the Wayfarer.

[@JeffreyOrnstein]

Yes, the Wayfarer had more variations to it. Maybe a future video! Thanks for watching!

[@nameless5413]

Going out with a big show-piece is always a satisfying thing for legendary companies, like i much rather the company tried their damndest and failed after they presented something memorable and incredible than just peeter out trying to make boring boxes without personality (okay its more of a car manufacturer reference to several once respectable carmakers who completly lost their way but it has happened in busses too i am sure). i do not know what their scale (certainly quite a bit was expended on development and tooling so minimum sales might have been some hundered or so busses but both passee that mark) was for sales projected but it looks like both models were successful enough so they did not bankrupt right? it was merely a choice of moving away from bus building for whatever reason the management chose. Pretty busses both of them, tho i am sucker fro older dessignes with more bulbous aesthetics i can see appeal of both.

[@JeffreyOrnstein]

Hello! Yes, at least Harrington went out with a bang and not a whimper! And a memorable bus at that! Thanks for watching!!