How Air-Conditioning Conquered America

[@ronm9428]

Houston here. We lost power due to Hurricane Beryl and by the 4th day I was ready to sleep in my car (running the AC). It was simply unbearable. Thank god it came back on.

[@immigrationisgood]

Hi Houston - you are correct that the summers in Houston are brutally hot and humid and A/C is essential. However your power companies do not invest enough in putting power cables underground so that everytime there is a hurricane the wooden poles that carry telecom wires and electrical wires keep on getting knocked down. Raise rates and invest more. But that is too simple I suppose. Easier to have to deal with no power everytime the weather gets nasty which is more and more common.

[@summertime69]

Telling Americans to be slightly less comfortable in order to help with electricity usage is, I think, a major reason why Carter was a 1-term president.

[@direwolf6234]

especially with an aging population that can't deal with heat ...

[@immigrationisgood]

We don't have to tell Americans anything - we just need to pay the same cost for energy that Europeans and rich Asians pay and we will magically see the thermostat set slightly higher and voila problem solved.

[@chasdawes7541]

Yep. Even when the solution was simply putting on a sweater in winter, it is too much to ask for USians.

[@lawrencetchen]

A tragedy. He was a good man who served at the wrong time. Glad he's been able to continue his work with Habit for Humanity for so many decades since his term 🥰

[@Pafemanti]

Make it normal to go to the office in light clothing in summer! Set thermostats at 77ºF/25ºC and stop requiring people to wear long pants and long-sleeve shirts. I have heard of places that do this. It would help a lot with this problem of lack of outdoor weather perception. Plus, people would spend less time changing in and out of clothes, and less time laundering all that extra material necessary to do that changing of clothes.

[@ericcampbell503]

Employers would never risk a reduction in efficiency with workers working slower because of heat.

[@Wiserick]

As an HVAC mechanic, 72-74 degrees fahrenheit is not an arbitrary number. Our body processes produce heat, and it needs to remove that body heat-much like what your air conditioning system does for your home. I think HVAC literacy is in also important to tackling the issue of energy over consumption. But, the woman guest was also speaking on comfort cooling. What about process cooling? Hospitals, laboratories, manufacturing, museums, market refrigeration, etc.? Not arguing necessarily for or against. I'm just saying HVAC is a large and varied industry that includes more than comfort cooling.

[@gracelloyd3758]

Yea I work in a lab. We have giant -80C freezers and machines that have to be cooled constantly. There’s thousands of labs and hospitals all over the country. What do we do about those!?

[@ShankarSivarajan]

@@gracelloyd3758 Leave them be. Causing discomfort is the point of this proposal.

[@summertime69]

It's almost as if there is cooling for necessity, which is, you know, necessary, but also cooling for comfort which is not necessary. And if we can reduce the unnecessary use, then the necessary uses can continue on. She doesn't talk about process cooling because it's necessary.

[@direwolf6234]

6 miilion live in the desert .. too much heat too little water ...

[@AsifKhan-hf9zy]

@@summertime69 cooling for comfort........... than same can be said about driving cars......... driving for pleasure...... wasting gas........ i bet FIFTY PERCENT of driving in north america is just waste of gas, given half of it is just not needed and half of it can be accomplished with a 30 minute round trip walk or bike........ but we choose to drive instead

[@kendelmcnew]

Buckle up. First off, buildings look different between different geographical locations and throughout the years because any given jurisdiction’s building code changes and there are different building materials available, not just because of climate adaptability. More specific gripe: Homes in the south are not built off the ground because “they keep the ground heat off them” the ground is VERY temperature stable. That’s why hobbit homes require minimal AC. They are build off the ground because the soil is less stable, so a pier and beam foundation is a more economical way to get to bedrock and create a more permanent foundation. It’s also cheaper and easier to do plumbing and electrical maintenance on a house with a crawl space as opposed to a slab on grade construction. Importantly, houses with crawl spaces are actually less thermally efficient than their slab on grade and basement alternatives because you have an active air exchange underneath them instead of insulating soil. With that out of the way… AC is a great expense for everyone, which indicates there is a STRONG. motivation to keep it. People pay hundreds of dollars a year for it, so why would they give it up just for the environment? Very few people actually make decisions based on the environment. AC keeps homes cool, dry, and clean, which helps reduce the effects of weather on humans, technology, paper, furniture, and so on, and hugely helps with mold and mildew prevention. This makes homes more robust to damage and decay, as well as more comforts able and livable. Modern building codes are not focused on telling consumers no to AC: they are focused on reducing the thermal transfer of walled structures with better insulation and, just as importantly, creating air and vapor barriers. Even small leaks in insulation and barriers have huge impacts on efficiency. Just think: on a 100 degree and 0 degree day, it requires FAR less energy to keep a polystyrene foam cooler cold or warm than a wooden crate with no air and vapor barrier. Focusing on insulation and barriers helps reduce power consumption not only during the warm months but ALSO the COLD months, which were not addressed in this report but are equally if not more important. The types of buildings you are suggesting would be garbage during the winter months. You are suggesting a regression in technology both in environmentalism and energy overall annual energy consumption I’ll propose an alternative agenda for concerned people to pursue. You can absolutely advocate and make the argument to reduce the size of buildings’ volume so that we build and use only the space needed. How much wasted space do commercial buildings have? How many people reading this have a living room they never use? How many people have simple fixes that could add to their home’s thermal efficiency like closing off that air leaky door jamb that a can of spray foam could fix easily. Focus on making insulation more affordable so people are more incentivized to increase their home’s R-value (thermal efficiency rating) both during and after construction. Insulation is expensive! Focus on pursuing renewable energies, like solar! And not only are these more reasonable solutions functionally, but they are much easier to market to a bipartisan population because they promote a year round financial incentive to consume less electricity and spend less money. (Personal solar IS USUALLY cheaper in the long run, but has a steep upfront cost.) Then we don’t have to regret the crappy decision to say, “eff it, guess I’ll just turn my AC off and sweat and suffer and let my TV corrode out and my books to ruin and my bathroom to get moldy and my allergies to rage and the city smog to ruin my lungs and enjoy the views of the slum I live in and reduce my home’s safety capacity because I can’t keep my windows and doors locked overnight so that I can cool my house and….” You get the point. As progressives, promote technological progression, not regression. This line of thinking when followed to its logical conclusions will put us back in the Stone Age.

[@stephenc9999]

Well said. Are there really people out there listening to the daily that will listen to this episode and be like….. “I’m getting rid of my A/C unit!”?

[@VirginiaBronson]

I wanted to scream at this lady. Thank you for your rational comment that saved me from screaming internally at her lol

[@conrusselrad]

I was in northern Michigan this summer from nyc. Mind you when I got off the plane I literally was cold. I went to lunch with someone and the restaurant was literally running their air conditioner when it was 67°F outside. It’s almost like for them it’s their *~summer~* and their chance to run it. Honestly ludicrous and brainwashed.

[@WomensTop20]

It's 2:45 pm in Alabama, 81 degrees F in my house, and I am perfectly comfortable. You just acclimate.

[@jonathanhardy8683]

Sleep with an open window? Sit on a porch? Emily, are you assuming that everyone's going to be living in a nice single family home in the suburbs? What about those who will be living in the sealed pods of the high density future?

[@ericcampbell503]

We need to reduce crime so it's safe to sleep with an open window and add balconies onto apartments. Do you think apartments just didn't exist before AC?

[@bb1111116]

Listening to Emily Badger, she discusses more than air conditioning. She is talking about where people live and how to do without the use of air conditioning by over 100 million people. Badger identified several parts of the US which depend on air conditioning. These include many parts of the South and the deserts in the Southwest. As she states, several cities before air conditioning were very small such as Las Vegas, Dallas, and several in Florida. What to do? Move north to places which can do without air conditioning? A few people might do that. But 100 million people in the US are not going to do it. Air conditioning will remain because the cities in the hot parts of the US are not going to be evacuated.

[@gracelloyd3758]

I like a nice 83 degrees. I hate that AC is always everywhere

[@bessycorrales2259]

83 is my number as well. I find it perfectly comfortable, not cool, but not hot. I don't like the inside temperature to feel like it's fall when it's 95+ degrees outside.

[@ScottStentenFilms]

great episode!!!

[@rhine2y6y]

What an interesting episode

[@MorganGale]

This is the first summer I've been fully without A/C in a long time - my 1960s house was not designed to stay cool without it, and the humidity has been miserable. And I'm not even in a "hot" area, I live in Michigan. 😭 But at the same time, I've become more in touch with the environment outside and more appreciative of natural shade (even though I really love having sunlight in the house). I'll be grateful to have A/C again when I have money to fix it - our sleep has been poor without it, even with a bunch of fans - but it's been an interesting experience.

[@avoiceinthechoir5791]

I never use air conditioning even though I live in California where it's often over 100 degrees in summer. The body can thermoregulate if you give it a chance.

[@Ryanrobi]

Yeah through doing fewer physical activities eating less and sweating a whole lot but you would still need fans to make the sweat cool you down.

[@phototristan]

I got a really nice Vornado fan and haven't had to use my A/C yet this year :) I only have to use the A/C here in California during heatwaves. The cost of PG&E electricity is getting really high so I'm saving money not running the A/C.

[@Sokrabiades]

I live in Taiwan. At home, we battle over whether the temperature should be 78 or 80 degrees in the bedrooms. None of the other rooms have AC. 72 is freezing.

[@KevinKeo]

I watched several of my son's high school football practice and conditioning this summer where the temp was always above 100, and several at or around 110. It's just a part of playing sports here in Central California and also in the Inland Empire region of Southern California where I grew up. The heat never bothered me, it was the profuse sweating that did. Proper hydration breaks were key to staying healthy.

[@jaymacpherson8167]

“…energy was cheap. The idea you are designing a building that demands a lot of energy…” reminds me of ‘60s and ‘70s houses built in the US Northwest, when electricity costs were very low due to relatively new hydropower plants, and a popular heating approach was to put heating coils in the ceilings. Not the floors (since heat rises), but the freaking ceilings. Many still exist today. Past 20:55 regarding thinking anew, “…Are we willing to be uncomfortable some of the time…Am I willing to turn [A/C] off at night…” also requires thinking anew. For instance, I don’t cool the house during the daytime, unless temperatures become mid 80s inside. I cool the house during the night when sleep is easier in a cooler environment, and the efficiency of cooling is greater (thus lower energy cost) because the outside air temperature is lower than during middle of day. This is to thermal load at higher efficiency.

[@DerMannDerSeineMutterwar]

European here. My perspective on AC is honestly that they are very uncomfortable. I really hate it to constantly adjust to changing outside temperatures walking from building to building while shoping etc.. Why cool inside temperatures to a level that I need to take allways a hoodie with me to take them on inside buildings and to put it in a bag as soon as i leave them.

[@immigrationisgood]

I am American (from Miami) but I live in Italy and used to live in Switzerland and Germany. I think it is ridiculous that when I am in Miami and it is 35c outside and very humid I still have to bring a sweater with me if I intend to go to a mall, restaurant or cinema because the temperatire indoors is ridiculously low and uncomfortable. On the other hand I find the German and Swiss perspectives do not take into account that US weather patterns are completely different from Europe's and the key is the low humidity in Europe vs the US. One can almost get by with little A/C in Europe vs the US. On the other hand the temperature here in Italy has not only climbed by a few degrees in the past 20 years it has become much more humid and Italians of all stripes are scrambling to add A/C units to dwellings that were not built for this new heat.

[@jonathanhardy8683]

It's such a pain when you wear glasses. They always fog up when you leave an A/C building into the humidity.

[@Ryanrobi]

It is actually a biological fact that the low 70s is the ideal temperature for humans to regulate body temp.

[@ericcampbell503]

And it's a bioarchaeological fact that humans evolved to live in a variety of temperatures. We aren't robots that require perfect conditions to function.

[@bernardzsikla5640]

I'm into this podcast 20+ minutes and there is no mention of a medical study 10 years back, that found people without A/C were on average, healthier than A/C users. I live on Long Island, NY and I pride myself on the fact I don't use A/C, only fans, and then only when the humidity goes way up.

[@connect2437]

How about the one that shows that your IQ drops substantially in the heat and studies showing that violent crime increases on hot days or that children score substantially worse without AC? We need to switch our power generation to green energy not abandon AC.

[@kendelmcnew]

Do you think there could be a survivorship bias in the data? (Healthier people may be more likely to opt for less climate control for any number reasons)

[@bernardzsikla5640]

@@kendelmcnew That is a good point! The study I mentioned suggested that since our bodies need to adapt to a greater temperature range, that meant that additional physical stress was healthier for humans. I would also think that poorer people couldn't afford the additional expense of A/C and I have seen studies that poor people have worst general health than wealthier people which would argue against your point, but I imagine there could be many possible reasons for the difference.

[@Ryanrobi]

What is the r squared? Sounds like correlation to me. I definitely know fatter less healthy people definitely prefer air conditioning over people who are in shape in like to be outdoors more. It's very hard to find with all the variables what is causal in the study like that.

[@jennifersmart1550]

Each summer, hundreds of elderly die of heat stroke -- too poor to purchase air conditioning.

[@katinkagoncalves913]

I’m always surprised to hear 72 as a comfortable temp. I’m lucky to live in SoCal so rarely need heat and for a fair amount of summer have reasonable nighttime temps, but if my thermostat goes over 66 I’m very uncomfortable to the point of feeling sick and could never sleep in anything over 62

[@tristan7216]

1990: "Solar and wind energy will be cheaper than anything else, and completely clean." 2024: "Energy is more expensive than ever, even near peak solar productivity times when AC is typically used. You little people will just have to do without, to save energy. Really it's good for you, you shouldn't be living in the only affordable areas of the country anyway. You're too comfortable for your own good. The AC will always be on at the NYT offices though."

[@mariamathews5312]

The lady who is speaking should go to the nyc subway platform and wait for 45 minutes when she is 50 years old. Then we can discuss

[@benvoncamp]

So.... refrigerate subterranean NYC?

[@rapauli]

Prologue to a more serious discussion

[@annewilliams8221]

there's actually plenty of science around ideal sleep temperatures, sooo....

[@arthurflax1505]

No Emily, I am not willing to turn my a/c down (except for a lower temperature.) I enjoy being comfortable. This is the same nonsense that President Jimmy Carter pushed - sort of - he said you should turn the heat down and be cold. Fact is, there is plenty of energy and plenty of air conditioning. Other parts of the world could benefit from more a/c! Never in my 66 years have I been without a/c and I'm not about to stop. I'm not a climate change denier. I drive an electric car. I designed and patented an energy efficient a/c system. Besides that, Humans are in control of their environment. It's what we do. We build dams, knock down and drill through mountains and change the courses of rivers. Not to mention fly through the air and roll over the land. We ought to be working on ways to control the climate outside of buildings - geo-engineering. Of course, every time someone (like Harvard for example) tries geo-engineering, they get all sorts of heat from so called environmentalists (like Greta Thunberg and the indigenous people of Norway. Look it up!). You will have to pry air conditioning from my cold dead hands!

[@charleselmore4707]

I will ride the AC hamster wheel until it stops spinning.

[@pascalpichon5507]

When I read some of the comments, there's no doubt that many Americans are unable to understand the meaning of the subject or don't accept the idea that their comfort is non-negotiable, althought the consequences are unbearable and catastrophic for the majority of humans. Having to wear a jacket or sweater in buildings when it's 100°F outside because the air conditioning is at 65°F is no problem for some. Deplorable. If your GP tells you to eat healthily and lose weight if you want to avoid diabetes and obesity, do you respond that your confort is non-negociable?

[@seriousbees]

8 bit guy did an interesting test of going off grid in both hot and cold Texas days. Even with a rather advanced battery and solar system he couldnt quite make it comfortably. Goes to show how much energy we need with these things

[@julianholman7379]

'the Real Solutions' would come from *everyone* if energy was significantly more expensive - as it Has To become anyway (peak oil, and no (imaginary) 'green transition') - but that will be too late, which is why we have to be glad for each rise in energy price caused by wars and other catastrophes (because we are too stupid collectively to raise energy prices through policy)

[@direwolf6234]

there's another effect with political impacts .. the connection between AC use & southern conservatism .. before AC indoor manufacturing was located in the northern tier as it was too oppressive to be in the south without it .. owners profited from the southern re-location as there were no unions & cheaper workers .. and those workers had mostly rural conservative values .. and as more people moved south the politics shifted right ..

[@benvoncamp]

Just made the same observation (albeit without your excellent context)

[@TravisNOLA1]

The picture painted of growing up without window units in a typical, sorry, “classic” Chicago building with cross breezes is a life that can only be had in a high rise building; especially amongst other high rise buildings, shading each other. Living in a high rise, supplementing vitamin D, is a life roughly twice as old as the ubiquitous southern 72° thermostat. Chicago’s “classic” architecture isn’t terribly older than the “entitled” window unit. Our buildings contribute about 30% of our greenhouse gas output, this is true but it’s misleading to only speak of cooling buildings in the summer when heating is also Air Conditioning included in the 30%, lighting is too but I digress. Heating buildings predates cooling them by alot, making colder climates more habitable but this doesn’t mean the south is “uninhabitable”, it’s a slap in the face to anyone living near the equator. This also makes the Northern cities greater contributors to global warming. I’m riding this A/C hamster wheel to my grave. This winter, please turn down your entitled heat.

[@VirginiaBronson]

I want to high five you! I second your comment. This lady was something else..

[@JeanneFerrariamas-sr5ml]

I agree with everything she said-air conditioning is an American excess

[@mediocrehat]

This was mostly just dumb. Household energy use in A/C dominated states is significantly lower than in heating dominated states. Instead of good info, NYT opted for a moralizing tale about the evils of air conditioning. So let's get into this with a few numbers. I'm in Phoenix this week for work and it is horrific. I definitely never want to live here, BUT, houses here have a far smaller overall climate impact than the Northeast. Specifically, let's compare New York (since it's the NYT). To AZ. Households in AZ use in total just under 28MMBtu per year on heating and cooling on average. Households in New York average over 47MMBtu per year, or nearly 70% more energy (and that number is even worse in the upper Midwest and Rockies). A/C is far more efficient than heat from common sources, and the temperature differential between indoors and outdoors is smaller (even if every time I go outside it feels like I'm literally in hell). Worse still, Northeast heating is dominated by gas and oil, which are carbon intensive and hard to replace. A/C is electrical, and thus far easier to convert to low carbon sources. The fact that A/C has allowed large numbers of people to move from cold places to hot ones has generally REDUCED energy use. Yes there are risks from outages during heat waves, but welcome to global climate change. Risks from severe weather are going to rise EVERYWHERE (remember when people were drowning in their homes in NYC?). Now sure, if everyone were to live in a place that was just comfortable all the time, that would really minimize household energy use, but, at last check, coastal California real estate was far out of reach for the average American. The A/C problem is one of the easiest challenges of climate change. Solar generation pairs extremely well with A/C as peak production tends to align with peak use. While warmer winters will reduce heating use in cold states, it will remain a major issue and a far harder one to solve. Telling people to be uncomfortable will create opposition to meaningful action on the climate and, realistically, wouldn't create major reductions in energy use even if you somehow succeeded. People moving en masse from NYC to Phoenix and all running their A/C at 72F 24/7 would save far more energy than people in Phoenix choosing to sweat it out all the time. Install more solar, keep pushing more efficient A/C development, and this one probably won't kill us. Now let's talk about what we're gonna do about heating homes, because that's a hard one to solve and all the good solutions are pretty pricey at present.

[@krisolof7998]

Should probably have a conversation with anyone with a basic understanding of physics and thermodynamics before saying something as blatantly erroneous as relying on AC is unsustainable. Heat pumps are twice as efficient as space heaters in winter and are the key to sustainable heating

[@lawrencetchen]

Just looking at the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics puts the inescapable nature of this problem into context. Using an inherently inefficient machine to pipe heat from one place to another must create more entropy in the outside environment than it is removing from the inside environment. We're accelerating climate change by burning non-renewables to try and stay cool from the warming the burning of the hydrocarbons have caused. Individuals have no incentive to change because the economics of the decision do not push them to. This is where governments should be moving to place positive and negative incentives to protect us from a future that the Earth will survive, but humanity may not.

[@willsbrooks4328]

I think ac might also be contributing to the obesity epidemic in america. Sweating is good for the metabolism and the body burns more calories when it is hot.

[@immigrationisgood]

Sorry - what contributes to the obesity epidemic in America is simply highly processed food which we eat in vast amounts. And even if you are partly correct stating it won't change anything - sadly.

[@gnash.s]

Abolish ICE just got a whole new meaning 😂

[@mazariamonti]

MMMM

[@brimstonebull]

I work in hot kitchens. I appreciate AC but It’s only in my house that I ever get to feel it. I feel lucky that I’m not inside AC all the time. It’s gotta be bad right?

[@ShankarSivarajan]

No, it's great.

[@jonkerwin]

Love the podcast, but this was the most useless episode yet. AC is bad and good? We knew. The solution seems to be to just open a window or have a porch and time to sit there. Ok cool.

[@Zellis666]

If ac is limited, I don't want to live. May as well be a zombie apocalypse.

[@gnash.s]

Nationalize housing and make the necessary changes so we can survive and thrive 🎉

[@chesterfinecat7588]

Build government controlled "affordable housing" to keep employees in line. Pay them little and kick them out of their home if they quit. Plus all the good PR from fighting for the "locals" while you import people to replace them.

[@direwolf6234]

will your house be first ??

[@gnash.s]

@@direwolf6234 that's between the government and my landlord

[@mmagaa91]

Episodes like these really show you how out of touch Media and liberals are. You cant leave a wibdow open when homeless are breaking into homes and apartments in CA & NY

[@direwolf6234]

now that sounds like an exaggeration .. you got some facts ??

[@immigrationisgood]

Really - I thought there were more windows in America than homeless people - I guess I was wrong. Perhaps if we solve the problem of homeless Americans by re-zoning vast areas of America to allow social and multi-family housing then we can open windows and voila', we will not have a climate change problem anymore - but just climate change deniers.

[@dr.kraemer]

I kept thinking "72˚, that's chilly." Then it turned into "68˚ to 72˚." ❄🥶🧊

[@conrusselrad]

I was in northern Michigan this summer from nyc. Mind you when I got off the plane I literally was cold. I went to lunch with someone and the restaurant was literally running their air conditioner when it was 67°F outside. It’s almost like for them it’s their *~summer~* and their chance to run it. Honestly ludicrous and brainwashed.

[@immigrationisgood]

Sadly you are correct - we set the A/C too low and it is strange to hear American tourists complain that European establishments are not cold enough!!! As an American who lives in Europe I find it much more comfortable here - in the US I have to drag around a sweater in Miami when the temp is 30c->40c - how ridiculous!

[@Ryanrobi]

It can be 60° but if it's sunny and you have a lot of windows open it's still going to get hotter in your building. But I would agree the more reasonable thing would probably be to just open some windows if it's only 67 out