Obscure Transit: SacRT Light Rail

[@climateandtransit]

Hey everyone! quick clarification pointed out to me by @thatrandomguy8124 but the green line does not run on weekends or holidays.

[@thatrandomguy8124]

It also has less service hours then the other lines, 6am to 8:30pm while gold and blue can be up to 4am to 1am on weekdays

[@chadnewton5721]

Seriously, with such poor service, the FTA should demand back any money they gave, and not give this agency another dime unless it comes with minimum service guarantees.

[@sacramentohistorian]

@@chadnewton5721 How exactly would a local transit agency guarantee minimum levels of ridership? Part of the issue, as the video mentions, is that the Green Line is supposed to run all the way to the airport--this is just 20% of a light rail line, and until very recently, there wasn't much in the way of commuter employment or housing in the River District where the Green Line ends. Also, due to its lousy hours and low frequency, the Green Line is difficult to use even for people who do live and work there. All that has to do with the fact that Sacramento RT is hilariously under-funded compared to every other major city in California, except for Fresno, which doesn't even have one light rail line. Poor funding means low frequency and lousy hours, which is a recipe for poor ridership. The only way to solve that problem is by increasing transit funding, so riders can ride as the area around the current end of the Green Line gets more built out with housing and offices.

[@silvercrystal13]

Wow the first ever urbanist coverage of RT!

[@toadscoper4575]

Wow… those headways are ridiculous. No wonder this is a forgotten system.

[@ScoobyDooIsDead]

In the outlying areas like Folsom it’s honestly more like an interurban than LRT system. Though it’ll be getting 15 minute headways soon rather than 30.

[@benfleishman2944]

Honestly, once Folsom gets 15-min service it’ll be okay. Nobody takes the Green Line, it has only one unique station

[@brianna_lynch]

Most of the light rail is every 15 minutes. It’s just a small portion of the gold line that runs every 30 minutes. The green line also has 30 minute frequency but it has pretty low ridership. Gold line and blue line have way higher ridership.

[@GirtonOramsay]

​@@ScoobyDooIsDeadsame feeling for the end of the Green/Orange MTS lines in east San Diego County. I'm pretty happy with 15 min frequencies most of the time, except Sundays on the green line.

[@mmrw]

I mean every 15 minutes is kinda the bare minimum for rapid transit but it is passable enough, and similar to a lot of other light rail system headways. Every 30 should be unacceptable though

[@heyharlan]

Use to have 4-car trains during peak hours pre-pandemic and they were packed. I miss those days

[@solaryellowis3007]

as a kid I used to ride rt from Meadowview to watts i80 to visit my aunt. man, that ride was always wild. One time a biker got ran over by the train as it was entering downtown. another time a few dudes started fighting and damn near stabbed each other. after that my aunt started picking me up. I hadn't ridden it until recently when my friend moved to Sacramento. I would catch California corridor from oakland to downtown then again to watts (ironic right). The thing I like is the old rolling stock. I wish they keep a few when the new cars come in. going through downtown is also a treat with many shops and old Sacramento nearby. the thing I hate the most is even in downtown I saw a lot of troubling homeless people that actually made me walk to another train station to catch the train I needed. with the headways so long, I actually didn't miss my trains by doing this. Another thing is the Stations further away from downtown. especially going towards watts. I get the reasoning behind placing the rails next to freight but the line running through here is so sketch getting off. I always chose to carry something to protect myself. Nonetheless with how crippling the system is I love how they are continuing to upgrade to overcome their shortcomings. even with an underutilized system.

[@ScramJett]

I don’t. I brought my bike with me, it was impossible getting it on the light rail so packed in. A few times I just gave up and rode my bike all the way home…a 45 minute bike ride! The packed trains breaking down all the time (and sometimes catching fire) was the reason why I bought my first e-bike and switched exclusively to e-bike commuting.

[@ScoobyDooIsDead]

One of the biggest issues with SacRT is the fact that it turns into a streetcar downtown. If it turned into a subway downtown like MUNI Metro or Link Light Rail I feel like way more people would use it. Also, it was too many stops on the Gold Line that are severely underutilized or surrounded by terrible land use. Pretty much every station in Folsom and Rancho is surrounded by parking lots and high speed roads (like Folsom-Auburn road.)

[@notthemama9986]

My pipe dream project is to put the RT lines underground in the central city and utilize the surface tracks for a streetcar system. And there really are a lot of underutilized stops on the Gold Line!

[@LukeCunningham]

I’m sure there are many issues with the water table

[@ScoobyDooIsDead]

@@LukeCunningham They built I-5 in a trench by the river with no issue

[@thatrandomguy8124]

Ok but where tf is funding for a tunnel lol. Sacermento citizens voted against giving sacrt money for capital projects such as that because a stupid freeway was bundled so at the moment anything more then super cheap is at a standstill

[@iantreat3745]

That’s exactly right. It’s often a 15 minute ride from Sac Valley to 29th St where it finally picks up speed. I commuted to Rancho from Midtown for years, and pretty much every station from 65th to Mather Field was crickets.

[@luke-tp3nu]

the ann phong add really adds to the video! a california treasure

[@emceevideography]

That and Shen Yun lmao

[@bryanCJC2105]

Value engineered light rail, while reducing upfront costs, often hobbles a light rail line by placing stations where few people and not near where they want to go and forcing unnecessary bus transfers because of that. Saving money by locating a station 1/2 mile away from a major destination such as Cal State Sacramento or the large UC Davis Medical Center District (which is served by the city's busiest bus line) has a high cost in reduced ridership potential. This is why the University light rail station, serving a school with 31,000 students, only sees 900 boardings a day in 2024. This station is the system's 3rd busiest station! The city's Oak Park neighborhood has the top 3 busiest bus lines running through it, yet the Blue Line runs 1.5 miles, and on the other side of the freeway, west of the neighborhood. Sacramento does have a commuter transit culture with the Amtrak Capitols line between Sacto and the Bay Area, w 900,000 annual riders, being among the nation's top 5 busiest Amtrak lines and is the 2nd busiest Amtrak rail station in CA w 450,000 annual riders. Commuter rail and local rail go hand in hand. The Sacramento Amtrak station should be one of the light rail systems busiest stations but isn't one of the top 4, which means it gets fewer than 870 riders/day. The main advantages of light rail, capacity, speed/lower commute time, and lower operating costs per passenger are totally lost with "value engineering". These lines are placed where they "can" put it rather than where they "should" put it. To it's credit, Sacto light rail deviated the Blue Line from the ROW the 2.5 miles to get to Cosumnes Comm College, yet still misses two major medical center complexes by 3/4 mile. The deviation should have been made on Mack Rd rather than Cosumnes River Blvd. to serve both medical districts, several apt and condo complexes, and the college. We have seen this "value engineering" all over the place resulting in forcing riders to decide whether the one or two seat bus ride, which may be 15-20 minutes longer, is better than the two to three seat bus/light rail ride. Because these light rail lines aren't typically going through dense neighborhoods, a bus is often required to get to/from the rail station. Each transfer risks the waiting time which can be substantial and seriously adds time to the entire commute, negating the whole proposition. Sacramento's intense summer heat is also a factor. The fewer transfers the better. Transit agencies don't seem to understand the calculus of riding transit, because most of the employees of these transit agencies outside of NYC, Chicago, DC, Boston, and SF, never use the systems they're working for. Because these are mostly freight rail lines, these ROW's are typically located in industrial corridors rarely going through dense neighborhoods or directly into busy business/retail districts. Some segments of these old ROW's may be still good ones, but a transit agency needs to understand that it may need to sometimes deviate from the ROW to serve high demand corridors and activity centers. Value engineering can be good as long as it doesn't override good transit planning.

[@thatrandomguy8124]

While I understand what you are trying to say, it is good to keep in mind at no point has SacRT ever gotten a reasonable amount of state and federal support. The engineers really had no choice other then to design the system to be as cheap as possible (due to the fact in order to get federal funding SacRT has to put some money on the table - money they did not have and still do not have) Several old documents point out that the choice of the blue line through south sac was due to an abandoned highway project so the amount of money saved was quite alot, if they bulit a ROW or even in median along a more preferred route it is unlikely it would of been completed

[@bryanCJC2105]

​@@thatrandomguy8124 I get your point and lots of cities find themselves in that situation. I think the big flaw often made in these fiscal situations is that they ask themselves "how can we get the most rail coverage with these funds?" instead of asking "how well can we service our highest opportunity corridor with these funds?" Most of the Blue Line has little opportunity for transit oriented development outside of downtown, except for the short section on Del Paso Blvd, in Dos Rios, and at SCC and Cosumnes CC because few people want to live near an active freight line far away from activity centers. It might have been better to run the Blue Line from downtown and along Stockton Blvd and that's it. That corridor is the city's busiest, includes major destinations and activity centers, and has ample TOD opportunities. That would have saved the money the city is now considering spending on BRT for the Stockton Blvd corridor. A BRT line would mean that the city's busiest corridor with high TOD opportunity would get much smaller capacity BRT and the freight corridor with few TOD options would have much higher capacity LRT. The initial error creates compound errors at additional cost. So, yes you bring up a very valid point. I say that should force smarter choices.

[@thatrandomguy8124]

@@bryanCJC2105 I actually never thought of an alternative being a super short in median along stockton blvd that would of been easier to advocate expanding slowly, if only people like you were in charge in the 80s things would of been so much better! only minor issue is harder to connect sac city, and slightly difficult to connect crc

[@Geotpf]

Some times the choice is build it in the "wrong" place or don't build anything at all.

[@bryanCJC2105]

​@@thatrandomguy8124 Thank you. I appreciate the compliment. I enjoy discussing transit issues with people like you who are interested. It's easier to expand a successful line with higher support from residents once they see a successful one. Many transit planners fail to design and advocate a master plan rail system, even if it takes 30 years to complete. A master plan once agreed to and legislated makes it harder for Nimby's to fight later on. It also allows developers to know where the lines will be and build accordingly. The city can acquire land, zone, and tie up loose ends accordingly over time as well. Systems like BART and the DC Metro had master plans and built to that plan. At the outset, places like San Jose, Marin Co, San Mateo along with Georgetown in DC opted out. So they were out for 50 years until the rest of the plan was completed. Now, they want in, which is great, but they weren't allowed to derail the original master plan. CRC could be part of the initial line connected from Stockton to Mack to Bruceville to CRC. That way it would connect Kaiser and Methodist Hospitals on the way to CRC. If not part of the initial line if funding didn't allow it, then as an extension. SCC could be connected later on and with greater ease after the success of the first line perhaps as a line along Freeport along Florin to SCC then along Sutterville to the freight ROW to connect with the first line in Midtown. Freight ROWs are judiciously used when they allow a line to skirt difficult and low density sections as the area along Freeport north of SCC would be. The northern section of the Blue Line could then have been built from downtown along Arden to Watt then Auburn to Greenback and Sunrise Mall (which will be redeveloped into a high density residential/ office/ shopping district).

[@patrickking5883]

Cool video! I was in Sacramento in October of ‘22 and was staying near the golden1 center with all the pedestrian centered development, which has a couple convenient SACRT stops. I took it to a few places and found that while it’s pretty awesome in downtown Sacramento for getting a few stops over, I wouldn’t want to make my daily commute on it. It reminds me a lot of Denver’s system and the critiques I have with that. But if they can make more areas like the area around Golden1, I think it’s going to be great. I loved sacramento and I’d love to come back!

[@brianna_lynch]

I live in Sacramento and I use the light rail a lot. I love it.

[@Cals-enthusiast]

I really liked and enjoyed this video. As a resident of Sacramento, I think the new Siemens S700 will be a game changer and a better light rail system for SacRT in the future.

[@SpaceboyYT]

I’ve been to Sacramento before! I first took the 42A YoloBus to J St & 4th St (I think), walked to Sacramento Valley Station, took the Gold Line a few stops, and then back on the 42A to Davis to see my Great Grandma.

[@MikeThePianoPlayer]

The 15 minute frequencies on the Gold Line is currently between Downtown and Sunrise station, and then reduces to every 30 between there and Folsom because that section is single-tracked. They’re adding a passing loop to enable 15 minute frequencies on the whole line as part of LRT modernization, but even then it’ll still have this arrangement on weekends. As this is my nearest LRT system, there are some really odd quirks with it (such as the MASSIVE park and ride facilities between Roseville Road and Watt/I-80 on the Blue Line, the dated rolling stock means the bells echo a lot through Downtown, and of course the Green Line’s nearly decade-long status of being a weird little spur since Railyards development only recently picked up steam). Though some projects are at least being talked about (Blue Line extension to the Roseville city limits, Green Line extension to Natomas and the Airport, and another Blue Line extension further into Elk Grove), but they’ve been in discussions for about as long as ever, so I don’t know how viable/soon/serious they are these days.

[@christophermclean]

I'm really looking forward to riding the new rolling stock this summer (hopefully) and the double tracking from Sunrise to Folsom, but those improvements seem to be the only tangible ones in years. I live blocks from one of the major stops and want to use it more, but it just is not as convenient as hopping on my bike. Some of the densest parts of the city aren't even served by any of the lines. I could complain about it endlessly, but on the positive side, I like the American River crossing portion on the blue line. Nice view of the river!

[@corvetteskickass]

I remember riding the blue line from florin station to downtown, transferring to the gold line to ride to Mather field/mills and catch bus 72 to go to high school. 1 hour 30 minute commute. Driving the same distance was 20-25 minutes lol. Riding RT buses or light rail during my high school and community college years really made every day commuting super inconvenient. Students and state workers were the people who benefited from this setup, no one else did.

[@RipCityBassWorks]

SacRT has some weird ROW choices: parking right up against the rail tracks really isn't a good idea. The land use of around stations on the gold line is also abysmal.

[@thesuavesultan9586]

Former Sacramento resident here. In addition to land use issues, the gold line is severely hampered by the right of way they chose. It runs south of the American River through communities like Rancho Cordova, while the vast majority of people in the metro area live north of the river in communities like Arden-Arcade, Carmichael, Fair Oaks, etc. so essentially, these people are cut off from the rail network and have to rely on the bus system which isn’t very frequent or reliable, so most people drive and clog up the roads. SacRT has been looking at at several potential BRT corridors along some of the major east-west arterials like Arden Way or El Camino Ave which would then interface with the northern part of the blue line, but I haven’t been able to figure out if these are going to be real BRT with dedicated lanes or just “BRT lite.”

[@ScoobyDooIsDead]

It also parallels Highway 50 for a good portion of the gold line. It also has way too many stops in Folsom and Rancho that get hardly any riders.

[@RipCityBassWorks]

@@thesuavesultan9586 I visited Sac recently. I took the gold line to Rancho Cordova to check out Burning Barrel brewery and that station and surrounding area is so hostile to pedestrians. Big Ol' mostly empty park and ride though....

[@wta1518]

@@thesuavesultan9586 What they really should do is extend the Green Line east along those corridors, and obviously extend it North to the Airport.

[@QuarioQuario54321]

How is it supposed to be changed?

[@william2william]

The SacRT Gold Line uses the right-of-way of California's fist railroad (Sacramento Valley Railroad) which later became the beginning segment of the Transcontinental Railroad.

[@simonsv9449]

I feel like the Sacramento Light Rail is underrated. Their frequency may not be the best and land use is bad around most stations as well. There are some nice high-density buildings right next to some stations like Sunrise, University/65th, Royal Oaks and City College, even if they aren’t many. But the great thing about the system is how great the bus connections to the stations are. Lots of feeder routes that bring passengers to the light rail and allow it to cover a lot of the city even if the rail itself only covers smaller areas. Not to mention the amount of important places the light rail goes to. All lines serve the downtown area and have stations within walking distance of the Golden 1 Center, the Downtown Commons Mall. The Blue Line serves not just one, but 2 colleges. It’s within walking distance of the Sacramento Job Corps Center as well. The Gold Line has a station a 15 minute walk from the UC Davis Medical Center and if you don’t want to walk, 2 bus routes go from the station to the hospital. There are bus connections from the Blue Line Watt/I-80 to the American River College and from Cosumnes River College to 2 hospitals. The Gold Line to the University of California Sacramento. They are also building new high density development along the Green Line between Township 9 and 7th & I County so there they have the possibility to add infill stations on the Green Line. Sacramento’s transit may not be perfect, but they’re certainly getting there.

[@ayeeeeeeee6240]

station spacing is really weird on the gold line in certain places too. sometimes there will be two stations directly next to one another for no reason, and then there will be miles without any

[@weirdfish1216]

even as a california resident, i’ve only been to sacramento about three times in my life and i’ve never ridden the light rail. although, i wasn’t really visiting with the purpose of going around the city, so that’s probably why. i would love to ride sac rt at some point though. maybe once the new rolling stock is in service. my plan is the use the gold line to visit folsom prison (as a casual johnny cash fan) and the actual town of folsom is one of the few stations outside of downtown sac that has a nice little main street nearby.

[@hellocopter108]

Quick heads up for pronunciation: Mather = MAYther Consumnes River = conSOOMNEZ River

[@goldenstatedepartures]

I think it would help if the editor watched a system ride along video to hear the stop names being pronounced by the automated system

[@gregford5971]

Also got Zinfandel (zin-fuhn-del) wrong.

[@sacamigo1]

oh I love hearing it wrong. it feels like someone is trying to gaslight me that I've been saying it wrong my whole life.

[@chuckblammo6171]

If you're going to correct pronunciation, start with correct spelling: It's Cosumnes. It's not C-O-N. It's pronounced Co-SOOM-ness.

[@hellocopter108]

@@chuckblammo6171mb bro I didn’t even realize

[@pacificostudios]

When I last rode SacRT in 2017, I was surprised that westbound service from Folsom ended early in the evening. Fortunately, I checked before going there, because I needed to catch the Surfliner to Portland that night.

[@thatrandomguy8124]

Their hours have extended quite a bit, 11pm is the latest train from folsom to downtown but you have to walk several blocks, latest train that actually stops at amtrak is at 9:30. If its Sunday then its 9pm to walk a few blocks or 7pm for actually stopping at amtrak

[@mattrancho]

My hometown! Sac RT (light rail) is decent for the city & region size.

[@Waponzi]

Sactown mentioned !!! I’ve never been on the sacrt:( but now I wanna visit sac just to ride it

[@thephantomlio]

Sacramento would become a premiere city if we get our act together and build the rest of the Green Line all the way to the airport.

[@LukeCunningham]

2030 currently

[@thatrandomguy8124]

First we need to present a measure to give SacRT alot more capital and some more operating money with sales tax or somthing and NOT bundle a stupid highway with it. Then SacRT can actually do things and not just be stuck like right now

[@ScramJett]

@@LukeCunningham I wouldn’t bank on it. The bridge over the American River is the biggest hurdle. It’ll probably take 20 years just to get through “planning” and “environmental” for that bridge. I expect that the Green Line extension to the airport will be completed in 2050…and that’s a generous guess…it’ll probably be longer. Maybe 2100.

[@ScramJett]

@@thatrandomguy8124 Good luck. You need a countywide measure and the county residents won’t go for it. It would only pass in the city of Sacramento, but you can’t use city specific funding on projects that impact the county. And most in the county think the only solution to traffic is to make I5, 99, 50 and I80 into 20 - 30 lane freeways. They’ll never vote for transit funding. That’s why the system is the way it is today. You should expect that it will stay the way it is today for decades.

[@denshidirect3182]

Sac RT needs to absolutely start with upgrading the rolling stock as it's an eyesore. Additionally the right of way needs to have improved markings, barriers, and signaling to reduce the number of drivers who stop on the tracks at intersections.

[@stevenkeller3047]

Good video. SacRT was pretty sad years ago when I rode it. The rolling stock felt third-world even back then. So, it's good to hear that they are getting new equipment. Extending the green line to the airport and doing more TOD along all the lines would vastly improve and help support the system.

[@ttopero]

I find your style of sharing a system easier to understand than RMTransit-Thank you!

[@expletivedeleted7853]

Yes! I couldn’t quite put my finger on what it was, but it’s that exactly!

[@sallywilson398]

Despite living only less than a half-a-block from one of the stations int was not until about 2016 when I first rode the lines. From 2016 through 2020 my elderly father -- who was in his 90s -- and I would take it to Sacramento Kings games, when the new Downtown Golden 1 Center was finished. He has since passed away, and I still take it to games. In the past people were not riding the trains at night, but the arena has changed that. They are always filled before and after games -- or events.

[@ChasMusic]

I've taken it, but I live in SF. The last time I was in Sacramento, the cars made a horrid sound when you push the door open button as well as when the doors close. It certainly would have discouraged me from riding regularly if I lived there.

[@sgtdebones]

SacRT needs to get a loan for the Airport extension and open it with U2As sandwiched between S700s until they get more like San Diego used to do with their SD100s. That should be the priority.

[@RcSammy]

missed opportunity to name it the SacraMetro

[@PlayaPotna1984]

Sac Metro, Golden Metro maybe?

[@solidcoldtwo]

Why didn't they name it that haha

[@pauljansson2691]

My issue with sacRT light rail is I work at sac valley Amtrak, and live in the south, I’d have to take 2 trains with a transfer to travel a whopping 10 miles, all it would take is to bend a power switch and make blue line trains connect to Capitol Corridor and Amtrak trains at Sacramento valley Amtrak but they insist on making a transfer that makes the light rail completely unpredictable A 10 mile trip end to end would take close to 45 mins to an hour on a good day.

[@expletivedeleted7853]

It gets close enough that you could just walk the couple of blocks, or even grab a bike share bike.

[@CamdenBloke]

I moved to Sacramento about 5 years ago, and I've only taken the light rail once - to try it out and pretend I was in continental Europe. The nearest station is probably about a mile away. There's a bus station right outside of my apartment. I tried using it a couple of times, but it was *way* more of an ordeal than driving. I didn't know where to go so I just tried Arden Fair Mall and back, which I have walked to, but it's an ordeal, and I've also driven to, but there's usually annoying traffic, especially near the mall itself. I got there, and back, but driving was just easier. I feel like I would use the bus if I was taking classes at Sac State or SCC, and I could use it as a regular commute. It's just not as useful to me for spontaneous traveling. Also, I wasn't sure how the card scanning worked. In some cities you both scan to get on and then scan to get off. In others, you only scan to get on. Nothing really tells you which system to use. When I was visiting San Francisco, I think I may have double scanned, because I was in that mindset.

[@pacificostudios]

SacRT suffers because the city lacks many walkable neighborhoods with LRT in them. The area around 16tth St. Station is one bright spot to check out. In general, Midtown should be developed for TOD, with or without LRT on the railroad between 19th and 20th St. (Is that line former Western Pacific?)

[@Icandigit35]

You didn't mention the transit connect card that SacRT uses. It's a regional card, so I can use it in my city of Elk Grove and then use it on light rail in Sacramento. Iit's very convenient because I can load money on the card online so I don't have to fumble for cash to buy a ticket from the machine. If you're a daily commuter it makes more sense to buy a monthly pass, but if you only ride every so often it's nice to have the transit connect card.

[@PunmasterSTP]

SacRT? More like "Super; most definitely!" 👍

[@hellocopter108]

I think that a lot of times Folsom is overlooked when it comes to transit. Sure it’s a suburban area outside of sac, but there are over 50 miles of bike trails in that city, and more people than you think use bikes and busses to commute to Glenn and Historic Folsom (once it’s open again it will be a lot more)

[@ScramJett]

Yep, I’ve been contemplating a move to Folsom for that exact reason. On the other hand, I like the Auburn area, and you can catch Capital Corridor there (even though it’s only one roundtrip per day). Really wish Capitol Corridor would be extended to Truckee so it’s not just the Zephyr. It would be extremely popular!

[@erentheca]

The Gold line is SacRT at its best, with multiple stops near population centers. The Northwest branch of the Blue line is unfortunately not so well planned, with its terminus at a park and ride in the middle of a major freeway. The Blue Line does have potential, and if modified, it could well serve North Highlands, Antelope, Citrus Heights, and Orangevale. It is also the only line positioned to alleviate traffic from the I-80, but to do so, it would need to go beyond the park and ride model and actually connect to the suburbs of Roseville and Rocklin.

[@ttopero]

While RTD in Denver was practically built by the same people who engineered the Portland system, I would have thought it was done by the folks from San Diego. Maybe the western systems are part of the same family genesis?

[@rikkichunn8856]

I rode SacRT once, early on. Overall, it was okay, but the street running portion downtown was slow.

[@ScramJett]

Kevin Johnson made it worse when he decided to open up K Street to car traffic. Now the train carrying dozens of people can get stuck behind some a*hole in an Audi. In more recent years, the city made it even worse by changing traffic signal timings to favor car traffic. Light rail used to have signal priority, now it doesn’t. The solution is to make the travel lanes the trains run in dedicated transit lanes and bring back singal priority for transit. But the City is too car brained for that. Glad I mostly work from home now, commutes in Sac really suck…and I lived in LA for three years! The city and county seem hell bent on turning the Sac Metro area into mini-LA.

[@ScramJett]

RM Transit has a really good video that talks about how LRT might be a good “upfront” financial savings, but the operating costs are more expensive over the long term. And that’s the issue because it’s operating costs that transit agencies struggle with the most. Metros, especially automated metros, have lower operating costs because of lower overhead and the ability to run longer train sets. LRT is limited to how long the train sets can be, which places limits on ridership. SacRT tried to “save” money by doing exactly what RM Transit says is a bad idea (but one that cash strapped transit agencies frequently fall for): force light rail to do the job of a metro.

[@MN-vw2lo]

I wish the blue line extended north into Antelope/Citrus Heights, even Roseville. I'd love to take public transportation to go downtown, but its too inconvenient, and even though I hate driving the time it takes to get there is about 1/4th if I drive.

[@anthonysnyder1152]

I’ve visited Sacramento a ton but never rode the trains. They didn’t really go anywhere I was trying to go and I didn’t really see buses either. Compared to SF where you visibly see buses and trains constantly all around the city, it’s just not the same energy. In downtown I saw lots of 2-3 story buildings that were like separated from the neighborhood with fences and single entry/exit blocks that just made the whole experience feel like I wasn’t supposed to be there, despite being just a few blocks from the state capitol. It’s not all like that, some of the best places to visit in Sac just aren’t on the light rail route unfortunately.

[@ZorenManray]

Pretty good documentary aside from the non local pronunciation of a couple of the locations.. And yeah RT's biggest flaw is that it goes pretty much from "parking lot" to downtown although the recent extensions made it less so.. I still wish there were some express bus or even BRT connections to the light rail which would make it more usable but RT seems to not want to do this. Also some even more obscure facts not mentioned: For awhile SAC-RT ran some UTDC high-floor/ALRV trains that were acquired from the VTA light rail system when they retired them in 2003 I'm not sure if any of them are still used but they were visible at their maintaince yard for many years. The Bridge that the light rail uses to cross over the UP mainline between Marconi/Arcade Station and Roseville Road Station was originally built as a highway bridge as part of a project to realign business 80 (SR-51) through the low income north Sacramento areas to eliminate some tight curves around the route. The reroute plans were finally dropped in the early 1980s due to continued public opposition leaving the already built highway bridges in a spot conveniently usable for the new light rail system.

[@MarkO-vi7cp]

Hello, I have lived in Sacramento since before light rail began and I am proud that we are one of the first cities to have light rail. Sadly, one of the reasons for low ridership is the perception that they are not safe, real or imagined. Fix this problem and you will see a huge increase in ridership

[@kuoster]

My experience with SacRT is that, the last mile from station to destination could use better connections, especially on the outskirts. Summer afternoon in the valley is not really a walkable environment. LOL Slightly more frequent trains + bus connections should greatly increase ridership IMO. The only thing preventing me from frequently going downtown or even the Bay area via public transit is the extremely infrequent bus service to the station. (There is live bus map, but the frequency of the service makes it hard to plan the trip...)

[@kuoster]

Just realized they announced last week they will be adding weekend bus services to my area in a few weeks time. Looks like I can finally get my wish of traveling via public transit to get to San Francisco. 🥳

[@GrumpyOldRailroader]

So the original Sacramento Valley Railroad constructed their line on R Street and continued on to Folsom. The Gold line is that original right of way. The Blue line was constructed first and was intended to use SP Railroad right of way all the way to downtown Roseville. A dispute over $$$$ for right of way access arose, and so the line truncated at Rosevlle Rd and I-80. That railroad right of way is wide enough for several additional tracks but now UPRR wants $$$$. Would be easy to construct, bridges in place and no railroad crossings need construction so just a straight line of 10 miles to access South Placer County

[@ScramJett]

I think the issue is also that Placer County doesn’t want to pay for any extension into Roseville. Even if the City of Roseville were on board (probably wouldn’t be though) and SacRT were able to go it alone funding-wise, they still need Placer County approval for ROW acquisition…and Placer County will absolutely veto it.

[@kertchu]

You think you could make a video on San Jose’s VTA light rail system and give your thoughts on how to improve it? You must have better ideas than ripping it out.

[@PlayaPotna1984]

I know the video is focused only on the RT light rail system which was the RT Metro (not sure if locals affectionately call it that still) but I think it's weird their RT bus system ends between 10 pm and 11:30 pm each night as opposed to around midnight. I guess thats what happens when Sacramento is a sleepy major city compared to its mid-sized metro piers. 😆

[@ScramJett]

Fun fact: we do NOT call it RT Metro. It would be a misnomer anyway since it is NOT a metro (but it should be).

[@bigjarthur5551]

It’s “May-ther” & “Con-SUM-nes” & “Zinfandel” (the wine). Sacramento is NOT in the middle of California (that would be Fresno)- Sacramento is the northern most large city in California!

[@chuckblammo6171]

There's only one N in Cosumnes.

[@govindacharya8570]

16th St, Broadway, 23rd, 29th are great with housing and shopping nearby. The biggest disappointment is that it's not pleasant going from the UC Davis Medical Center to the 39th St station. Given that UC Davis Health is the largest single employer in the city, it ought to be safer to get to the RT.

[@goldenstatedepartures]

The current schedule has Gold Line trains from Folsom arriving at Sac Valley a few minutes after the Capitol Corridor departs, making it a poor connection to Amtrak. The 15 min passing track project should fix that. Also it takes 2x as long to take light rail as it does to drive to downtown when there is no traffic (weekends). The interchange points to go from light rail to the airport bus are not intuitive

[@chrispontani6059]

I’d say it’s 3rd most forgotten, with the Newark City Subway at #2, and depending how you classify it, Kenosha, WI as #1.

[@ScoobyDooIsDead]

For people not on the west coast I bet VTA light rail is pretty unknown too. It’s somehow worse than SacRT as well

[@Ponchoed]

Hampton Roads, VA LRT and Buffalo, NY LRT are two other contenders

[@QuarioQuario54321]

I think even more forgotten would be Norfolk, VA

[@BigBlueMan118]

This goes to show that highway medians *CAN* be useful but can also be disasterous, and are probably best done with very wide station spacing or have a fast corridor between 2 busier areas. And highway medians are also probably best done as conventional rail rather than light rail because conventional rail can reach well over 80mph and offer a more comfortable ride doing so, and highway medians are entirely grade-separated so why not build conventional rail which can be automated. Light rail works best as a tool for transforming streetscapes and replacing busy bus corridors. Take a look at Australia for example. Perth is a city of 2.5 million which has built 2 conventional rail lines down the middle of highway medians and a short tunnel connecting them under the city, with speeds of 70-80mph and wide station spacing. These lines leave the highway median at a few points to directly serve important areas on the way. Perth was able to do this cheaply but the highway median stations suffer for it, and there is very little TOD generated along the route. Conversely, Sydney is a city of 5 million which is building nearly 100km of subway/Metro mostly in tunnel and some elevated. Sydney also has BRT lines in highway medians along a similar route to one of the new tunneled Metro lines but chose to build in tunnel because there were so many important destinations along the route that needed to be served directly in order to generate the massive TOD, the line speeds and the modal shift they desired. But Sydney also built a light rail line down the middle of its busiest most important street, and completely pedestrianised it (some minor sections for local delivery access) and the results are transformative.

[@edisonz2006]

America's most forgotten light rail system is probably The Tide in Norfolk Virginia lol

[@TheNobleFive]

Haha

[@notthemama9986]

The "streetcar" project is one of those zombie projects that just won't die, no matter how terrible of an investment it is. Originally it was meant to be a usable loop similar to the streetcars in Portland and funded by the cities of Sacramento and West Sac, but after that was shot down the project was given to RT, and they don't seem too enthusiastic about it!

[@thatrandomguy8124]

Probably after a decade of fighting NIMBYS and SacRT is cursed with significantly less funding then other counterpart agencies

[@BenriBea]

Edmonton Mentioned!

[@stickynorth]

Ish... 😜

[@kevinbarnes218]

Green line wants to extend service to the sunrise station so it could get more ridership for people going downtown

[@kevinbarnes218]

or sac state

[@BK_718]

When the A’s move to SacTown as a ballpark chaser and a hardcore New Yorker who rides rails everywhere I go I’m obviously gonna rely on this system to get around town. Will the ballpark be near a light rail stop ? And anyone know any hoods in Sacramento that has good nightlife and good food that’s accessible with or near light rail lines ?

[@climateandtransit]

Unfortunately the stadium is just to the west of downtown which doesn’t see any Light Rail service. You can absolutely take the bus the SacRT buses to the game though!

[@limpwhale]

Hey it’s going to be Traffic hell. Especially when they are planning on constructing the lights rail on the Tower Bridge in 2027. I would advise you to park at Crocker park and walk from there. 10 min walk but it beats the traffic

[@ScramJett]

Outside of the grid (the area that is mostly downtown and midtown), there really is no nightlife anywhere. The upshot is that the light rail decently serves downtown and midtown if you don’t mind a bit of walking.

[@thatrandomguy8124]

correction, 6:26 the green line DOES NOT run on weekends. Also you really should of pointed out that SacRT is cursed with under-funding, and that even Arnold Schwarzenegger stole funding for SacRT

[@drdewott9154]

I mean it sounds like the system has some alright bones but they really need to work on 3 things. A: Accessibility, preferably with level boarding. B: Development, with high density along the LRT lines if possible. And finally most importantly C: Frequency! For a city of Sacramentos size, every 15 minutes at its peak sounds abysmal! Like they really should work towards increasing that to every 10 minutes for the Blue and Gold lines. Like every 10 minute still isn't ideal, but it is a huge improvement going to 6tph rather than 4tph.

[@thatrandomguy8124]

A: to be on the gold line this summer B: the city of Sacramento (not county or other cities necessarily) already encourages this with TOD laws C: 10min is impossible on gold line because still too much single track, As far as the blue line its maybe possible but towards the terminus there is a single track that would make things hard since it takes ~3mins to get to the end one way on the single track + theres a staff bathroom so unless operators can reach the terminus, go use the restroom in under 10secs, get to the other end, and depart within 1min of reaching the final stop its not exactly possible in the blue line, though just barely. Why not double track to 100%? money. Their capital budget is insanely low and the last measure to give them more had a freeway project bundled so it got voted down. Also demand has not increased since covid and even before covid was in decline since 2008 so justifying more trains when a good third of the stations dont go anywhere expect parking lots is hard. Also operating budget is low too.

[@plantguy3346]

I lived in sac for 25 years

[@history_leisure]

At worst, they could route the orange line through West Sacramento...or to White Rock following the gold line to around Zinfandel. There is also an existing fright spur they could build a connection to the airport too, even if just a terminus for a few Amtrak California trains should the San Joaquins/Capital Corridor be upgraded to a more "clocker" style service

[@history_leisure]

Main reasoning is to connect Folsom Lake College into the system and double service on that combined segment to ever 7mins (possibly better, but street-running does have its limits)

[@goldenstatedepartures]

You should have a look at ACE Forward on the extension up through Natomas. Crazy idea I have is route a DMU on the gold line from Sac Valley via the UP spur to head east from Power Inn

[@ScramJett]

@@goldenstatedepartures I’m kind of wondering what happened to ACE Forward. The Stockton-Sacramento segment was supposed to start construction this year but it seems to have been quietly shelved in favor of the Stockton-Merced segment.

[@ashleyhamman]

I think besides them just being old, I think the perception of the U2As falling apart is that SacRT appears to have stopped cleaning the outsides of the trains in the last few years, since they're close to replacement. They also put a blue wrap on the front of most of those units, which just sorta feels wrong aesthetically. Another extension that I can find little info on but I've heard mentioned by several older residents was a plan to extend the Gold Line across the American River, hence the bridge at Folsom having a weird center ramp in line with the tracks, and a very wide median. I think SacRT's best bet is to turn the Green Line into a dedicated streetcar, along with the incoming Riverfront Streetcar. Move the Blue to a midtown connector along the north-south freight line that runs through town (probable future ACE and San Joaquins alignment), and continue the Gold Line on the R-street viaduct to 3rd St, with plans to cross into West Sac and take the River Fox alignment towards the airport. I think splitting the system into a light metro and a streetcar is crucial to capitalizing on and mitigating the opportunites and challenges of the light rail transit model.

[@thatrandomguy8124]

The few times I manage to get on a U2A and not a CAF it looks cleaned?? or rather not absurdly dirty? Also one of their potential plans is to convert the green line with the streetcar (see 2 months ago general chat)

[@dylanrander3862]

For roughly $50/month you can take every public transport option in all of Germany. Compared to that and any other 1st world public transportation system, ours is absolute garbage.

[@ScramJett]

Yep. Went to the Netherlands over the summer and it was trivially easy to get around the country by train. It was also trivially easy to get around Amsterdam by tram and metro. We took the tram and the metro to Amsterdam Centraal on a SUNDAY! In SUMMER! Virtually no waiting! Good luck with that ANYWHERE in the US!

[@JediTev]

I bet they push that Streetcar line through now with the A's coming to town.

[@ScramJett]

Last I heard was that it’s just going to be an extension of the light rail into West Sac rather than a separate streetcar. It’s too bad, a separate tram/streetcar line might actually put Sac on the path to building a true metro.

[@briansalt4755]

Omg we finally got an urbanist video 😭😭

[@pacificostudios]

I'm surprised the U2 cars are still running. San Diego dumped its U2s years ago.

[@thatrandomguy8124]

U2A is basically a sd-100 but slightly older, the trolley still uses those. The U2 and U2A share almost nothing in common besides a few older mechanical systems. Copenhagen is an example of refitted U2's which are drastically different

[@pacificostudios]

@@thatrandomguy8124 Thank you, I didn't know that. However, the U2A is still not a part low floor model, right? Most San Diego cars are low floor.

[@thatrandomguy8124]

@@pacificostudios Yes its highfloor, and yes San Diego was one of the first to get low floor trains, however this summer the gold line will get brand new modern s700 rolling stock which the trolley also has. As far as accessibility every single station has a mini ramp for level boarding at the front car so its not like ADA people have no options

[@pacificostudios]

@@thatrandomguy8124 Low floor designs serve passengers with bicycles, rolling luggage and carts, and simply load faster. Especially against the older high floor LRVs like the SD-100, which have steep and narrow staircases. I have a lot of experience with both types in San Diego.

[@thatrandomguy8124]

@@pacificostudios I understand they are better, I have a heavy mountain bike i regularly take on the light rail and the steps are not kind at all. I just meant to comment on how the highfloorness still works (though not great) for the blue line at the moment. Estimates for blue line to get the s700 is ~2026 or even later because alot of stations will have to be raised which is likely to only be done on weekends to minimize travel issues, and funding for about a third of the s700 dictates they can ONLY be used on the gold line while the other 2/3 can be used anywhere. Not to mention theres no funding to raise the blue line stations right now anyways.

[@eannamcnamara9338]

I would make the claim that SacRT is not the most forgotten, but Norfolk tide is. I mean who has ever heard of it?!

[@AustinSersen]

Edmonton mentioned, but not Calgary? 😡

[@kailahmann1823]

wow… haven't heard the name "Düwag" since quite a while… They were fully absorbed into Siemens (with the brand retired) 25 years ago…

[@erik_griswold]

But these U2a cars were built before Siemens bought DüWAG.

[@higher_pwr8178]

New and modern cars are an improvement, but entire system functions like an inefficient model of the LA 1930s redline street car/trollies.

[@Hebrew_Loc]

Just FYI, you should invest a little time learning how to pronounce some words, like Mather is pronounced as May-th-er not Math-er, Cosumnes is pronounced as Co-soom-ness, soom part pronounced like soon or zoom, and Zinfandel pronounced like White Zinfandel Champagne, other then that pretty good job on the vid, I was born in the Sacramento area suburbs, raised in L.A. from the mid 80's through the early 90's moving back to the Sacramento metro area in 94' and been here ever since. SacRT is in a complete retro fit and infrastructure adds like adding a second set of tracks on the Gold line so trains don't gotta share a track allowing more trains going back and forth from Folsom to Downtown, right now is single track from Sunrise to Historic Folsom, also beginning in July Brand New Siemens Trains start running on the Gold line because all the stations from Downtown to Historic Folsom have had their reconstruction for the new low floor trains completed and the testing and 100hrs of running before they can start running passengers just finished around June 1st, the Blue line will get the new trains next Summer(2025), the Light really helps the lower class and non car owning people a way to go to Downtown and enjoy all the great things it has to offer like world class museums, 5 star dinning and the Golden 1 Center home to the NBA's Sacramento Kings and top artists Concerts

[@stickynorth]

EDMONTON! I WANT YOU TO SAY HER NAME! ;-)

[@travelsofmunch1476]

Rode this once and it was my most unsafe transit experience in the US

[@thatrandomguy8124]

Still safer then driving a car buddy

[@travelsofmunch1476]

@@thatrandomguy8124 baha that experience was most definitely not

[@crystalanderson257]

I used to live in sacramento that place hasnt been any good since 2000

[@davidlang1125]

The SacRT light rail network suffers from the myopic planning values from the eighties. Stations serve an imaginary commuter ridership that never materialized. Most stations are surrounded by empty parking lots. Empty during the peak hours of weekdays. It’s obvious the original plan was based on someone’s imagination rather than on real ridership numbers. Most successful rail projects such as Hong Kong’s MTR or Sydney’s rail system is based on locating stations for non car riding commuters. There isn’t a need to provide acres of parking lots. In the case of Hong Kong the rail developer is the prime developer of the real estate around each station thus provide high ridership as well as generating income to underwrite transit development costs. In the case of Sydney, planners locate stations based on non-car commuters as well. Until Sacramento matures in its understanding of transit it will always look like an orphan system. Unloved and unwanted.

[@willingshelf]

8 likes in 10 minutes? Bro fell off💀

[@climateandtransit]

Many people are saying this!

[@XYPrime]

Am tripping but isn’t that good?

[@dylanrander3862]

It's one of the worst systems I've ever been on. Super slow, as it has to wait at stop lights, expensive, not the least bit extensive, runs very seldom. It may be the only Metropolitan area of this size and an international airport that doesn't connect those 2 things. Side notes: why name the stops? 🤦 Also, you pronounced a lot of them wrong. Just leave that part out.

[@mikeem848]

Judging by your mispronunciations of "Cosumnes" and "Zinfandel", you don't live here, do you? lol.

[@arxligion]

7:52 The decrease in ridership reflects a state bill allowing illegal immigrants to get drivers licences, and a similar decrease can be seen in other systems in cities with high populations of illegals like fresno and los angeles

[@arxligion]

also this is one of the lowest effort transit videos i've ever watched

[@Gfynbcyiokbg8710]

Nope

[@higher_pwr8178]

COVID pandemic is root cause in ridership downturn. Another more factual cause is public safety issues.