Ocarina of Time Stands on the Shoulders of Giants | Retrospective | Review | Nintendo 64 1998

[@Exoleres]

Couple related error corrections, friendo. First, the door of Shadow Temple isn't the only intended use for Din's Fire. Most critically, deep inside of Shadow Temple, it is the intended way to defeat a puzzle where Link will be crushed by wooden walls without it, blocking access to the dungeon's boss key. Second, the door check is certainly not arbitrary. It's good game design. It's intended to be insurance to make sure the player can't enter the dungeon without it, making it perfectly clear that the player is missing an overworld power. Imagine how terrible it would be if that check wasn't there. The player could get deep inside, find an unbeatable room, and have no clue that what they needed even exists, much less that it isn't in the dungeon. This is a very good example of how OoT is so well designed that critical decisions to avoid someone's huge frustration are almost invisible. Third, in this scenario, Din's Fire is another back-in-time item. Only child Link can obtain it.

[@SuperMetaFun]

While writing and editing I completely forgot about the wood spike trap and din’s fire! I get what you’re saying and you’re right. Though it still feels a little tacked on. But that’s just my opinion.

[@Exoleres]

@@SuperMetaFun Word. It happens. With the opinion, obviously the flip side of my explanation is "They could have just changed the wood trap room..." so I get where you're coming from, haha

[@coolguychecker7329]

This area has another pretty major issue. It's the first part of the game that requires the use of magic. If players neglect to visit the great fairy after Death Mountain, there's nothing stopping them from progressing to this point. Once players make progress in Zora's Domain, Navi will no longer direct players to the great fairy. It is possible to make it through the Forest, Fire, and Water temples without magic. Upon encountering the Shadow Temple entrance, such players would have no clue what to do since there is no hint near or around this area that directs them back to Death Mountain.

[@coreykipps]

I'm surprised you didn't point out that the child Link official art in the thumbnail is Majoras Mask Link and not Ocarina of Time Link.

[@Exoleres]

@@coolguychecker7329 Untrue. Navi's hints in OoT can't be overridden. Also, the Lens of Truth is understood to be required beforehand by a normal player.

[@vurquidi]

Wow, I’m surprised you don’t have more subs. This was extremely well made! From the music choice to the visuals, something of this quality is what I’d expect to see from a larger, more established channel, so I’d like to say that you did a great job with this and I hope it blows up to get you more recognition. You’ve earned a sub from me :)

[@SuperMetaFun]

Hey thank you so much for that! Feel free to share it!

[@destarfighter]

Agreed!

[@swarth8632]

Agreed! Subbed!

[@folksurvival]

Every channel starts somewhere.

[@XXXXX8]

It"s almost like it's a copy paste formula and you fall for it every time.

[@coolguychecker7329]

I like how focused this retrospective is and hones in one point. I just wanted to add that its overworld, Hyrule Field, is meant to act as an interactive map. In a Link to the Past, players first get wowed by the sense of scale when they open the map. If players never open the map, then they won't ever have that moment, but they will open the map because it's required for navigation. While the map certainly has an advantage of being a quick read, Ocarina of Time basically implemented the map diegetically, encoded in the game's world directly. When you are told to go to Death Mountain, you can navigate there visually by reading the horizon, you don't ever have to refer to a map. The inconvenience of traveling this map, however empty it may be, was clearly worth it to the development team since it led to players directly engaging with the game's world and not with a UI element. With regards to the obtuse quest structure, it has its lineage from RPGs in which acquiring information from NPCs was typical for progression. If you talk to every NPC in a given area, they will tell you exactly what to do in order to progress. Ocarina of Time uses this to encourage players to platform Goron City and Zora Hall, for example, when there is otherwise no extrinsic incentive to explore those places. If you seek out NPCs, you won't be stuck. The Gorons tell you to go to the Lost Woods specifically through Goron City and the Zoras tell you to feed Jabu Jabu a fish. This kind of quest design is considered antiquated now, but I don't think it's obtuse if you engage with it in the intended way.

[@TheRemixGrave]

I hope the algorithm does you justice! This was a great video :)

[@SuperMetaFun]

Thank you! I hope so too. :)

[@bushmaster6894]

Would have thought I was watching an established channel, with the production quality you’ve got. Excellent video. Subbed.

[@ap3montes739]

I had never thought about the influence of other games on this one (especially Zelda II), nor heard the complete history of Z-targeting. Quite interesting

[@SuperMetaFun]

It’s interesting seeing how these games each influence each other.

[@macuser7048]

Majora's Mask had an overworld map that seemed smaller which took less time to get from point A to B with the same day and night cycle. Add that to everything being on a schedule with the clock lasting 3 days and 3 nights. So whenever you had to wait for certain events to progress, it kind of sucked. This was especially true early on in the game when you were stuck as a Deku with basically no equipment and no other transformation masks, no way to become regular Link yet, and no way to leave. They gave you stuff to do or at least NPCs to talk to, but you get the idea. In order to help with that, they added two more versions to the song of time. One to slow down time to make sure you get to your destination in time for certain events, the other to speed things up and skip ahead. This helped IMMENSELY. Add that to the bunny hood and you could get every fairy in a dungeon in decent time.

[@SuperMetaFun]

Majora’s day/night cycle was a little different. And I think it felt smaller cause the town was the center with everything around it. Instead of the field being the center you had to cross across.

[@DarkflameEmperor]

I played MM as a kid. First time through I don't think I found the reverse song of time. Wonder if some people stopped playing the game due to not knowing it.

[@UnderAvg]

That intro you did for 1998 was incredible

[@DIEGhostfish]

Honestly, it was my least favorite part.

[@SuperMetaFun]

Ha ha thank you!

[@SuperMetaFun]

It was a little cheesy. But that was kinda the point.

[@UnderAvg]

@@SuperMetaFun It was extra amusing because of the contrast with your tone of voice!

[@bullfrogjay4383]

The great fairies made me feel things. I was twelve in 98 so it was a weird time 🤣

[@SuperMetaFun]

You and me both!

[@dream_state]

Glad youtube suggested me this, subbed. Keep up the good work 👍

[@Abysscuit]

Love this game and learned some neat new things thanks to your video like how Z-targeting came to be. Excellent stuff.

[@casaroli]

1 year before the release Miyamoto decided the game should have young Link as well?!?! Talking to Malon ultimately starts the quest to open Dodongo’s Cavern. I had never thought of it this way. Maybe because the game doesn’t tell you to go to death mountain until you finish talking to Impa. You’re right, but the game does a good job hiding it.

[@j.makison1547]

Man, your videos are awesome! This video was more concise and well made than many other KZbinrs with thousands of subs. I hope you keep up the good work because I see this channel growing a lot in the future.

[@SuperMetaFun]

Thanks for the kind words!

[@user-lj2de7fs5j]

I came over here from TikTok and love this video and will be diving in more! You also sent me over to Mark Brown’s Boss Key series from here which was awesome

[@WildKat25]

I think I just found the next channel that I am going to stay up all night watching all their videos! Great video buddy!

[@LpCruz11937]

Been "watching" these Ocarina of Time Retrospectives the last couple days as background noise, and yours is remarkably polished and well thought out

[@SuperMetaFun]

Thank you!

[@DevilDaz17]

I'm binging your vids, can't believe you have less than 1000 subs! The script, editing and everything else in your vids is super high quality! Will be sharing your channel to as many people as I can!

[@heroofangst]

This needs more attention! Great video, I hope it gets more appreciation!

[@LuckyDogg420Canada]

I don’t normally comment, but this was made well and deserves the engagement so that the algorithm serves it to others. Hopefully you’ve got more content like this coming. The quality is on par with channels that are 100 times your size.

[@SuperMetaFun]

Thank you!

[@N3O506]

Keep up the work bro! I loved the vid you’re channel is bound to grow📈📈

[@jerielc709]

i remember hearing a lot of this in running shine's oot retrospective but having a hard time telling when he was joking and when he wasnt lol. awesome video that highlights the aspects a lot of people tend to overlook, myself included

[@waelhilal5824]

Amazing video dude very well made and interesting all the way through

[@francisdillinger5051]

Amazing video. You are highly underrated,

[@thoridannn]

You good sir, have earned my subscription. Great video!

[@attomicchicken]

16:30 Amen bro. Apart from the boss and menu problem. In fact I always did water before fire as I detested the latter.

[@Eli-J]

504 subs wtf, you’re going to be something big 😵 You got my sub, bud

[@YouB3anz]

straight to the moon with this channel

[@GamingManual]

Fantastic video and content, dude! This was both inspiring and very well made!

[@PlayerOnePenguin]

I'm 28 and I just played OOT for the first time and I think I agree with literally everything you said.

[@PlayerOnePenguin]

For context when I say just played I mean I finished 100%ing it like 3 hours ago.

[@mookkss1381]

20 seconds in and I knew this was gonna be a good video. Insane that you only have 1k subs.

[@SuperMetaFun]

I’m really glad you enjoy it. Gotta start somewhere.

[@Mermi]

Hey! That was Super Meta Fun, you've gain a new sub, buddy!

[@maxwoolterton]

Just watched 4 of your videos it's absolutely crazy how you don't have 100x more subscribers

[@brondabailey1]

Other than overuse of the vacuum line, this is amazing!

[@SuperMetaFun]

Thank you!

[@Degdreams]

Subscribed. Definitely want to see more. Zelda and Metroid particularly.

[@SuperMetaFun]

Workin on it!

[@ForgivenNotForgotten]

Fun watch thanks bro nicely put together

[@SuperMetaFun]

Thank you!

[@izzylunaliam]

Dang great video! You’ve earned a new sub!

[@the9thinning1]

cool vid, subscribed!!!

[@HeyZaccyPoo]

This is so well made! Great work man.

[@SuperMetaFun]

Thank you!

[@rats41]

Awesome video. Very well made

[@davecurtis86]

You have all it takes to become a successful KZbinr, as long as you keep making videos

[@SuperMetaFun]

I’m trying to keep it up. Thanks for the compliment!

[@Michallote]

Really hope your channel blows up, I never heard before the stories of the dev team. Somehow Miyamoto is the best and worst member of the team 😂

[@Rambo007-_-]

Love the content ... Got yourself a new sub

[@billny33]

Enjoying this video but I wish you would explain why you thought the Zelda 2 combat was poor. I thought it was one of the strengths of the game and very well done. I enjoyed those high-low battles with the ironknuckle knights.

[@ramonmujica3193]

It's a bunch of giants on top of giants but one of those giants is more gigantic than the others and that's Ocarina of Time.

[@SuperMetaFun]

Each one inspiring the next, which inspires the next, which inspires the next.

[@JetstreamGW]

"No game is made in a vacuum..." A-HEM. Luigi's Mansion!? :P

[@fatalwaffle1715]

Awesome Video!

[@gtawrecking7021]

800th sub! awesome video

[@ShortFatOtaku]

good job, man

[@TheOscarSound]

So. How the hell have you been making so many great retrospective videos for years and have under 1k subs?! Luckily, your video hit my home screen ;)

[@SuperMetaFun]

The mighty algorithm has finally smiled upon me.

[@NolanThunder]

Fantastic work!! 🎉 This deserves a lot of views and you are building a fan base and community from this. You earned a sub my friend, but I do ask, is a game made in a vacuum if I accidentally vacuum a rare copy of Pokémon Platinum in a vacuum??

[@MistSonata]

Just wanted to add on to @Exoleres' point, Din's Fire is also required to open the door in the Fire Trial in Ganon's Castle.

[@mshelton5036]

Ocarina of Time has been my favorite game since the day it came out. To only be replaced this year by MH Sunbreak. I'm hoping Zelda takes back the top spot in 2023.

[@Valdis249]

See you at 1k subs. Keep it up my dude! :)

[@SuperMetaFun]

My man! Thank you 😊

[@adamorth5335]

New sub here, comment for the algorithm. Let’s get your channel poppin’

[@guyledouche7939]

I mean by definition you could apply this to pretty much every game past the arcade era.

[@SuperMetaFun]

That is a true statement. I just thought it made for an interesting lens to view Ocarina of Time through. While it is a game that cemented game design for 3D action adventure games, a lot of its ideas are rooted in its predecessors more than you’d think.

[@guyledouche7939]

@@SuperMetaFun especially fake samurai fights lol...that was a great tidbit of info I've never heard before. It is a good lens to view it through. It's not saying anything negative or taking away from it's impact, it's just looking at a larger picture in the context of the games that came before it. Great video. I always remember playing Oot and even as a kid thinking "this is basically just Lttp but in a 3d perspective." It's interesting to see that was basically the goal from the start from a design perspective.

[@kevinmark2146]

Fantastic video overall. Well presented, good presentation. Only comment; Deku has only one ‘e’, not two.

[@SuperMetaFun]

You mean pronunciation. Deh-ku. I grew up saying it with a hard E sound. So it’s kinda hard to break that.

[@BradsGonnaPlay]

Wonderful video!

[@RobzdaBlade]

... It actually does tho, like so many elements of gameplay were already done somewhere else before... OoT just feels like a collab of gaming at that time, I swear to god. THAT is why is stands out. It feels like its own thing. I'm 30, but when I was a kid, I had atari, sega, all the old classic bit stuff people threw away/sold. Still one of my fav games :P

[@Lexi-M]

The music is so good

[@coltonowens2742]

The pc port that fixes fps issues, and various bugs, proves just how relevant this game still is. Its still a very tight and well crafted experience.

[@SuperMetaFun]

Is that from the OoT decompile project I saw that was happening?

[@coltonowens2742]

@@SuperMetaFun The decomp team didn't create the port, but yeah, that code is how it came about.

[@Peartato59]

Great video! A couple corrections: 5:57 the word is “tangential” 17:23 Zedla

[@SuperMetaFun]

Aw man. Completely missed those…

[@Peartato59]

@@SuperMetaFun I subbed though, high quality content!

[@Mr.Goldcoin]

Fantastic video!

[@SuperMetaFun]

Thank you!

[@macroxela]

Find it interesting what you said about Bongo Bongo: I kept dying in that boss battle until I used the hover boots. Then it became so much easier.

[@SuperMetaFun]

The hover boots always made it harder for me and got me killed. The bouncing and floating with slippery physics threw me off.

[@InfinitySpiritD]

It really bothers me that keeps using footage from Link's Awakening HD when talking about the original Link's Awakening. >.> And I think you're looking at the "Fetch Quest" thing all wrong, man. As a kid, or even now, I look at the entire game as one giant epic journey to save Hyrule. In that regard, someone can claim that the entire game itself is a fetch quest. But there's only one quest in the game that I would classify as a fetch quest, which is the entire process to getting the Big Goron Sword, which is completely optional and very worth it. All that being said, this was a really great and well done video.

[@SuperMetaFun]

For my Link’s Awakening video I played the Switch version since that is what I had access to that I could record. Also the remake is extremely faithful and has minimal changes from the original game boy/game boy color versions. So when I referenced Link’s awakening I just continues to use the footage I had from the HD version.

[@SuperMetaFun]

Also you’re right about my fetch quest comments. Looking at it now I could have developed that talking point better. What I meant is that there was very little activity in some sections other then talk to this person to get thing. Give it to another person to get other thing to then go and find out you still need one more thing. So go talk to a girl in the woods. At least moments like getting then iron boots or the hook shot had more of a gameplay element other then talk to guy. (I guess the castle garden stealth section is a gameplay element but whatever) And thank you for the kind words and rebuttal. I greatly appreciate it!

[@InfinitySpiritD]

@@SuperMetaFun No problem! Watching your video made me appreciate the game even more than I already do, which is hard to imagine, and actually made me want to replay it again. I feel like you could have added a small section in the end pointing out how the 3DS version added a lot of quality of life changes that the developers overlooked with the original game without changing too much of the gameplay, but I understand this was mostly a video of how the original Ocarina of Time came to be.

[@DIEGhostfish]

16:52 it's also that final silver key.

[@Modulates]

"Ocarina of Time stoofld of the shoulders of Giants" holy..shit

[@Modulates]

Also for the record. Holt shit the quality of the video two minutes in is superb

[@SuperMetaFun]

Glad you like my intro!

[@JMLjml-dm7dk]

I can play N64 OoT in my sleep, but the new hand held versions...

[@Malhonn]

OoT is the most influential game ever made, people take for granted all the gameplay mechanics we have today, but back then, they were starting 3D from basically zero, there was no precedents, lots of early 3D games were just bad, control and game design wise, people simply didn't know how to make 3D games from working in 2D for so long. OoT and Super Mario 64 advanced the 3D game mechanics so much is it night and day playing an early 3D game then playing those two games. Anyone that criticizes OoT (cof cof egoraptor) don't know how much OoT pushed the industry forward, despite still being rough around the edges. And i find funny that most criticisms these people have is "its not as good as what we have today", i roll my eyes every time i hear that. Also, the water temple is a good dungeon, people that hates it is because they dont have spacial awareness

[@ryjack86]

Really cool video with some awesome new info! Where did you get that info on how z targeting came to be? I never thought about how you are tethered to the enemy with it. Also I’m having trouble playing skyward sword because of Fi…. She is awful.

[@SuperMetaFun]

The Iwata asks interviews are a wealth of information. Also Fi sucks.

[@MasonOfLife]

* me getting inside my vacuum to make a game *

[@ol305stunna]

GOAT OF GAMES

[@josh6813]

great video but the music was a bit too loud for my liking also, a lot of the complaints at the end of the game were pretty odd especially the one about din's fire and getting to dodongo's cavern

[@animeblade15]

But but, egoraptor said the game is bad!! Joke aside, great video. I found out somethings i didn't know before

[@SuperMetaFun]

While I disagree with Egoraptor’s take, I really liked that Sequalitus video. He had some very valid points.

[@lenlimbo]

Ocarina of Time is like Super Mario Bros. It still stays relevant, even if it has dated a bit.

[@willgoodall1529]

Ocarina of Time was the original giant

[@nathanbouquin9640]

Shigeru Miyamoto is to Nintendo, as Steve Jobs is to Apple. Videogames wouldn't be as amazing if he weren't there

[@SeasoningTheObese]

It's pronounced "Toe-Ayy Kee-Yo-Toe". Also, subscribed.

[@SuperMetaFun]

Awesome! Thanks for letting me know. And thanks for the sub. Did I say Kai-yo-to instead of Kee-yo-to?

[@SeasoningTheObese]

You did lol.

[@johnboy4025]

It stood on the shoulder of giants true… but it stood the test of time

[@DIEGhostfish]

Maybe it does. But for most people after it's the giant almost everything else stands on, with BotW being one of the first to try to stand on the older giants more directly.

[@DIEGhostfish]

Because sonfew people seem to bother with the topdowns. (Myself included)

[@SuperMetaFun]

Oh for sure.

[@OfficialJuggaloJesus]

I'm finna make a game inside of a vacuum.

[@sambajane]

I take issue with the common parroted response that Hyrule Field is empty. It's actually really responsive; from many points, you can see at least one point of interest to investigate (a pattern of trees letting you know that one holds a secret, for example). Sure, the map COULD be crowded with a few more secrets, but people are implying that no design thought went into Hyrule Field. That part is untrue. People forget that you once had to truly OCCUPY a game and try things out. In Hyrule Field, there is something new to learn/discover every several square feet, like the uses of bombs and Song of Storms. That makes it a responsive, dynamic environment. Breath of the Wild wouldn't be what it is without OOT's Hyrule Field.

[@SuperMetaFun]

I believe that’s the argument I did make. It is “empty” by today’s standards but it served the purposes it was designed for in 1998. And in my opinion still works.

[@RandoReign]

people who "hate" the water temple either 1) never grew up before the internet was popular. or 2) never played Snowhead from MM without a guide.

[@DIEGhostfish]

I usually hear Toei ad Toh-ei or Toey.

[@jordonvlahakis1010]

Zelda II is the goat

[@SuperMetaFun]

Zelda II seems to be the candy corn of Zelda games. Either you love it or hate it. There really isn’t an in between.

[@KingOfDiamonds64]

Zelda II is a pile of fucking steaming dogshit compared to absolute masterpieces like A Link to the Past, Ocarina of Time and Majora's Mask. Hell, even Wind Waker and Twilight Princess are better than Zelda II.

[@aozf05]

Great video! But the butchered Japanese names 😂 Also the hover boots don't get you killed against Bongo Bongo unless you're Z-targeting. They actually reduce how much Link gets affected by the bouncing which allows you to have steadier first person aim. Something you didn't mention about the combat as well is that during development they had actually made more fleshed out swordplay for Link akin to Zelda 2 but they simplified it later in development. Also the description of getting to Dodongo's cavern is a little misleading. You're just describing the plot, not a fetch quest. And most of those steps are secretly teaching the player about game mechanics that will be useful to you as you progress. Zelda's Lullaby being a secret key to unlock things, the Lost Woods acting as a shortcut between areas, Saria's Song acting as a hint system to talk to either Navi or Saria, how to use bombs. There aren't any other bombs in the area either so it's not like the game is being obtuse about how to open the cavern, it's just a simple puzzle. It's also exposing you to important characters: Impa, Malon, Darunia, Saria. Ocarina really wanted you to care about the characters you'd be meeting.

[@SuperMetaFun]

Yea I would agree with you there. I am overstating the problem but to make a point that some of it is a bit superfluous. My biggest criticism of the sequence is having to go all the way back to the Lost Woods for Saria’s song. Yeah the short cut in Gordon city is sorta a clue but the only in game clue from an NPC comes from Navi saying “hey maybe we should talk to saria!” Just feels so far outta left field. It would make better narrative sense if Saria taught you the song as you left saying “Whenever you get sad play the song to think of us and cheer yourself up” or something like that. That would be a better hint in how you would use that song to cheer up Darunia.

[@SyedTauhidul]

The video was very well made but I have one small criticism, "No game is made in vaccum" and "OoT stands on shoulders of Giants" is said a tad bit too many times. It genuinely borders around becoming annoying. Otherwise great video and loved it.

[@dr.c2195]

22:00 Probably right where it is now. If OoT did not exist then other developers would have came up with the ideas in OoT and we would be praising another game. Innovation never depends on a single person. Instead it is a race about who can make the innovation first. And OoT won many of the innovation races. Without OoT we would have to wait for whoever was the runner-up in those races.

[@SuperMetaFun]

True. In this timeline it happened to be Zelda: Ocarina of Time.

[@Wendy_O._Koopa]

How do you figure you'll be killed if you have the Hover Boots equipped while fighting against Bongo Bongo? Did you die once and say, "I guess it's impossible?" They aren't even a hinderance... other than the loss of traction which is just what those boots do. I pretty much wear those boots from the moment I get them to the end of the game, so I can slide around like a maniac. I'm not sure if I've ever _not_ beaten Bongo Bongo with the Hover Boots on.

[@SuperMetaFun]

I didn’t say impossible. But yes every time I wear them during the battle it did not help.

[@Wendy_O._Koopa]

@@SuperMetaFun Sure, you didn't use the literal word "impossible," but at 12:53 you say "... the Shadow Temple did not require the hover boots to defeat Bongo Bongo, they actually got you killed if you had them equipped." What else could you be implying?

[@robertsuzuka3431]

Annnnnd subscribe.

[@SuperMetaFun]

Thank you!

[@pathofselfdestruction4054]

Breath of the Wild has the worst menu design of any Zelda I've ever played.

[@saricubra2867]

This and Twilight Princess ruined single player gaming for me by how good they are.

[@prestonrcasey]

Why more people don’t realize that OoT is just a 3D Alttp still gets me.

[@sem_aki]

10:40 I never noticed that what the hell that's genius

[@SuperMetaFun]

I wish I could claim credit for the observation but the genesis of that came from Mark Brown at Game Makers Toolkit. kzbin.info/www/bejne/bH2yaY1nedB3p8U

[@gordonggrey6548]

No. Ocarina *is* the giant.

[@pathofselfdestruction4054]

Number 900.

[@thetwilightjourneys]

I find Navi to be an annoying Karen.

[@SuperMetaFun]

Hey! Listen! I would like to speak the manager…NOW!

[@janzglar1022]

what point does it make that you may don't pronounce something right, as foreigner?

[@jumbledmass5754]

Can you turn down the music please? It's very distracting.

[@MrYutbe57]

Deep Impact >>>> Armegeddon

[@SuperMetaFun]

You're not wrong. There is something special about the cheesyness of Armegeddon though. It also gave us a bangin' Aerosmith song.

[@awewi7309]

deh khu 🌲