Odin isn't Santa Claus

[@JacksonCrawford]

Aside from the time of year, Jól/Yule also wasn’t a particularly similar holiday to the Christmas celebrated today (or in the 19th century when Santa Claus took shape). Yes, there were apparently festivities (see this older video kzbin.info/www/bejne/i4bPoHx4jauCh6c for what little we know about that). But the holiday’s importance could also be much grimmer; it seems that it might have been a time when the will of the Æsir divinities was somehow more potent, and thus a very meaningful time to call on divine power in swearing oaths. We even see it as an auspicious time to fight in a hólmganga (a ritualized duel, with the winner explicitly considered to have godly favor). In Ketils saga hǿngs (The Saga of Ketil Trout), the first day of Yule is when the berserkr Framar (granted his powers by Odin in exchange for sacrifices) challenges Ketil to a duel for Ketil’s daughter. Curiously, just before that duel--already a long way from our conceptions of what someone might do on Christmas--the Odin-favored berserkr Framar is attacked by an eagle, one of Odin’s birds. As he dies from his wounds from the eagle and Ketil, Framar says: Brásk nú Baldrs faðir, brigt er at trúa honum. “Baldr’s father [Odin] changed his mind; it’s futile to have faith in him.” Not to make too fine a point of it, it’s hard to imagine anyone saying this about Santa Claus, except maybe a kid whose Tickle Me Elmo ran out of batteries before he pulled it from the stocking.

[@pierregauthier6999]

Santa Klaus is coca cola's mascott. Hence the Red. Father Yol is dépicted in green. So Odin is not father Yol? Giftbearer and wishgranter?

[@TulilaSalome]

Xmas presents were just more HC then.

[@AnonYmous-gg2dq]

As far as Im aware the ritual concerning trees is ancient especially to norse cultures believing in vardr or other entities, it seems a common string across the world but particularly Yule or Jul as we call it was also to my understanding associated with the worship of Odin in form of ritual sacrifice. To say Christmas is Jul wouldnt technically be correct but customs native to me are indistinguishable from customs of older times and so is the word. In essence they mean the same. So a custom that adopts Christianity or the other way depending on how you see it could be seen as a compound considering the christmas tree custom itself has been adopted all across the western world. Just a thought

[@Infected_Apple]

Dutch tradition with sinterklaas does fit within other traditions that are recognised as continuations of the wild hunt. Santa being among others influenced by sinterklaas (Saint Nicolas) it isn't that silly to claim, though any one on one claim is preposterous (but I seriously doubt anyone with half a brain would claim that). This video feels a little lazy as Santa though very new didn't spontaneously come to be in a coca cola boardroom, they used older traditions. Could've tried looking into that a bit more.

[@user-bf2mp5vr2v]

The Dutch brought Sinterklass (Santa) to America, he wears red and rides a white horse. H. A. Guerber has claims in her book Myths of the Norsemen (1908) that someone can skew to fit the Wild Hunt narrative.

[@7piecebucket]

What??? You mean that everything I have been teaching my children about Santa Claus and his Army of the Dead is wrong???

[@Yeahalacon]

Yes

[@kelsherselves9531]

Right? Me too

[@Kat-of-the.wood5]

Burst out laughing at this. Scared my dog . 😂

[@ForgeMoon]

Odin isn't Santa Claus? That´s exactly what Odin would say to cover up that he indeed is Santa Claus! ;-)

[@Nothing2CHere4U]

Notice he didn't say Santa Claus is Odin. It's all in the nuance.

[@JohnSmith-rk6jy]

Best comment.

[@neardeathexperience1111]

Hahaha yes...Odin can be a trickster

[@myhounddog]

Love ❣️ this comment

[@dryciderz]

He takes disguises, why wouldn't he put on red?

[@annawho2220]

those trees in the background look magical

[@thetux459]

"Legally speaking, Kringle and Vadderung are two entirely different people who simply happen to reside in the same body."

[@SamM-lv8hr]

Just different masks we wear on Halloween, am I right?

[@ckpkenpo]

"The Dresden files" right? 😉

[@josephpeck8723]

I see you are a person of culture as well, comrade.

[@Adrian-py9cq]

I wonder if JB has seen this.

[@GravesRWFiA]

depends which security firm you hire.

[@Vyk1345]

Up next on Old Norse Radio is "Odin isn't really Santa Claus" (sung to the tune of "I Saw Mommy Kissing Santa Claus") and "Grandma Got Run Over By Sleipnir".

[@kelsherselves9531]

Grandma got run over by a sleipnir, coming home from our house Christmas eve~ Jackson says that Odin isn't Santa, but as for me and grandpa, we believe!! 💕

[@callisastapp7160]

This needs to be a thing now. Old noise radio 😂

[@Infected_Apple]

Dutch tradition with sinterklaas does fit within other traditions that are recognised as continuations of the wild hunt. Santa being among others influenced by sinterklaas (Saint Nicolas) it isn't that silly to claim. Any one on one claim is preposterous (but I seriously doubt anyone with half a brain would claim that). This video feels a little lazy as Santa though very new didn't spontaneously come to be in a coca cola boardroom, they used older traditions. Could've tried looking into that a bit more.

[@meurisbjorn]

yes correct

[@elricthebald]

Let's build on this correct statement even more. The Dutch Sinterklaas does not have reindeer and elves. Instead he rides a grey stallion and has two or more black/moorish helpers. E.g Sleipneir, Huginn and Muninn or Geri and Freki. He also rides his horse over the roof tops listening if the children have been good and worthy if gifts. This too perfectly fits Odins character. And unlike Santa Sinterklaad carries a staff, just like Odin. Of course none of this is solid evidence but the folklore fits the sagas like a glove.

[@meurisbjorn]

@@elricthebald yes that's also my point in my answers here...you have to see it in the light of the wintertime customs as a whole.

[@digitalbrentable]

Yes, Sinterklaas feels like a jovial subversion of Odin. Like a shadow archetype.

[@Infected_Apple]

@@digitalbrentable yeah though the goedheiligman used to be a more imposing/scary figure a few generations back (but still good and holy ;) )

[@johanhagstrom318]

Strong disagreement from Sweden! Odin is way better and older "Santa" than the 4th-century Greek Christian bishop guy. Last night we celebrated Midwinter solstice with a huge dinner or midwinterblot or midwintersacrifice with drinking beer, eating pig and handing out gifts. In Scandinavia we still celebrate Julafton or Jólnight and our Santais still called Jultomten or JólElf and our Santa had a blue coat until Coca-Cola came and messed things up. Our gifts are still called "klappar" or Clapping from the the knocking on the door as the sound made as you threw the logs into the houses that you were gifting with rimes. We still drink and eat the same as before the Christians came here and we still celebrate father Jól and write list and asks for gifts. The Christians may have changed the dates a bit and said we could continue celebrating if we did not mention it the old religion. We still have a Julbock or JóleGoat under our Christmas tree. If you look at real old pictures of the Santa you can see he was riding on a horse just as Odin so the reindeer is a modern invention. Some of us still put out porridge on Julafton on the doorstep for the elfs to eat so they help you the rest of the year. God jul! Or Merry Jól as we say!

[@LilleViking]

Helt enig hilsen fra Norge/Sverige, För og ikke glemme at vi setter ut grøt til nissen, og dekker til bordet så de død/åndene som går igjen kan få "spise " og at nissen Odin har en flygen hest som er rød på nesen fordi den spiste fra de onde demoner og onde ånder som Odin drepte som kom fram i mørketiden

[@myhounddog]

Well said

[@faramund9865]

I think there are two problems here. Crawford isn't from a Germanic country where there are still remnants of folk tradition alive. And ethnology works are often in the language of the culture it describes. There are countless sources to read that attest traditions and tales from Germanic people in the 19th century. And anyone who can put one and one to make two can see the clear connection between Norse sagas and myth and these traditions and tales. In fact there are many 19th century anthropologists who write about this! In a Dutch translation of Grimms fairytales for example, the translator comments on 'The White Snake' that 'Siegfried' also suddenly could hear birds talk when he ate a piece of a snake, in his case the heart. Also the apples of life (that we know from Idunn) appear in this tale. It's so frustrating when someone with such good standing makes such a dull video, because people will believe it blindly. OUR CULTURE IS CONTINUOUS, IT HAS NOT BEEN DESTROYED BY CHRISTIANITY!!!

[@davidallen723]

You saying Odin isnt Santa is like learning Santa isn't real all over again

[@wouter2223]

wait what do you mean by learning santa isn't real?

[@thenorthman7012]

Killing my adult childhood here lol

[@cargobay]

Thats where those 15 down votes come from lol Dreams crushed!

[@marvalice3455]

I can see Odin pretending to be Santa to cause trouble, but Odin doesn't act in a way that would inspire the stories of santa

[@dolphwong]

He is comparing him to Coca-Cola Santa Claus. Of course the descriptions aren't going to match up.

[@mountainadventures7346]

Odin a gray bearded man flying through the sky with a eight legged horse. Thor is pulled through the sky on a chariot with a team of goats. And Santa Claus is pulled through the sky on a sleigh with a team of Reindeer..... Jul also practiced stockings hung on the hearth and a tree decoration ceremony. It’s pretty hard to imagine that there is no connection between Norse Jul festivals and modern Xmas. Obviously not identical. But I think it’s rather preposterous to think that they were just invented by 17th century Europeans...... who had no knowledge of older traditions. I think they deserve more credit than that.

[@ArdensSedVirens1]

I'm sorry, but you're just factually wrong here, Christmas tree decorations don't originate in Yule festivities.... We only start seeing that in Germany (not Scandinavia) in the 16th century. "But I think it’s rather preposterous to think that they were just invented by 17th century Europeans" Why do you have trouble believing that some traditions are more modern than you think they are?

[@islandplace7235]

the wreaths come directly from Yule, where they would be lit on fire and rolled down hills mimicking the suns return journey. The Pine trees were heavily associated with yule. Elves too come from the folklore of germanic folk. The list goes on and on and on

[@RedGreenLeft]

Christians just grabbed parts of different religions and found ways to tie them to Christianity.

[@jpietersen519]

I disagree with some of the conclusions here. Santa Claus clearly doesnt come from Odin, as that would imply a Norse origin. But it does clearly derive in part from Saint Nicholas and f.e. the Dutch Sinterklaas. The original tradition around that holiday definitely did have frightening elements. The 'Santa Claus' figure was predominantly frightening, and got more friendly as time went on. In NL/Germany/Switzerland all the traditions have 'Santa Claus'' helpers scaring children at their core. In that sense a connection to the Wild Hunt isnt far fetched, of course not certain. Considering the Western Germanic Wotan/Wodan often gets called by the Norse equivalent, I dont really see the big deal about saying 'Santa Claus is maybe loosely connected to a common ancestor of Odin'

[@mahtanel7049]

I'm by no means no expert in Norse or European mythology, although i love both and your comment made me think about Caraciun spirit of winter, freezing entity that was quite a frightening being, he gave origin to the modern name of santa in romania - Mos Crraciun, and he also was very broadly known in Slavic culture. It might not be related, but i really enjoy finding such little connections in different mythical systems

[@meurisbjorn]

100% correct

[@kayoss2306]

JC presents Christmas as something entirely cheerful, which I also disagree with. Perhaps this exists elsewhere too, but in Britain we have always had a tradition of telling ghost stories at Christmas. There was traditionally always something spooky and otherworldly about Christmas, so a connection to the Wild Hunt doesn't seem strange to me at all. Even elves, when you look into their origins, are largely ancestral spirits.

[@lakrids-pibe]

Krampus is pretty scary, that's for sure. The nordic yule goat is also stradling the modern cute and family friendly christmas as well as the older, pagan and more ambiguous or threatening elements. It would be incorrect to say that Odin *IS* Santa, but it's also incorrect to say that he is Saint Nicholas of Myra. The modern Santa is a combination if christian and european pagan/folklore elements. The wild hunt is one of those elements.

[@lakrids-pibe]

Speaking of the dutch Sinterklaas and Zwarte Piet, I heard that books with Zwarte Piet was removed from a public library? Is it time to tweak the character a little bit?

[@AgentXA564]

I don't understand why people think this. Santa Claus is definitely based off of Saint Nicholas, and there are a lot of connections between them. As for Yule and Christmas, there are lots of holidays across the world at that time of the year. So, that alone isn't evidence of anything.

[@meurisbjorn]

This, like I said on top. ST Nicholas is the first christianized form of Odin, still with a wild hunt in Europe. ST Nicholas got a protestant version= Father Christmas, in France Père Noel...And those two conceptions went to America via migration and mingled to a new form of Santa...don't forget that Santa and "Sint Klaus, Sinterklaas (Dutch) is perfectly cognate...In Europe the protestant St Nicholas version also postponed the habbit of present giving at St Nicholas (6th december) to Christmas...it is a merging of those 3 principles...Odin is via St Nicholas an indirect "form" of Odin...

[@AgentXA564]

@@meurisbjorn Saint Nicholas was a real person. He was a Greek from what is now Turkey and lived during the time of the Roman Empire. He went around doing charitable acts, which is easily recognizable as similar to Christmas traditions of gift giving.

[@meurisbjorn]

@@AgentXA564 yes indeed, and this mingled with older heathen customs...The helpers of St Nicholas are always with their faces painted black, with horns, they have whips to make the fields and woman fertile, the make a lot of noise...So this is somehow in christian times a triumph of christianity St Nicholas over evil...the wild hunt...both customs mingled to a very popular custom for kids...

[@meurisbjorn]

@@ThW5 yes indeed and this GOLDEN staff, with at the end a SUNspiral (midwinter symbolism for the sol invictus) is also a cultic device...good observation from you!

[@CynfarLP]

Just because Odin isn`t Santa to 100%, this does not mean that there is absolutely no continuity between the two figures. When looking at the traditional Christmas/Yule festivities in Europe (especially today still Scandinavia) the connection becomes even more obvious. Myths and mythological figures change, and Santa certainly is an Americanisation, but the collective unconscious always manifests itself somehow, and Santa is probably the strongest manifestation of old Odin that we have nowadays.

[@TheNostorian]

Santa is from the Dutch sinterklaas wich is Saint Nicholas. A bishop born in myra (eastern roman empire) of greek decent. He is not odin.

[@floodgates182]

Bit disappointed by this one, as this doesn't really address the source of the Santa Claus myth, namely the German/Central European/Russian tradition. Where he does indeed wear blue and grey, and lives in the forest. Everyone can certainly agree that Odin is not the coca cola Santa clause.

[@raidho8697]

In the Netherlands we celebrate Sinter Klaas(yes we started the image of Santa Claus), as you say a gift bringer with a heed of warning, if you where a bad child you get beaten with sticks, the good get treats. The red clothing and association with gifts comes from a monastery that uses red habit while handing out baked goods too the poor during the dark months. Sinter Klaas rides a white horse a Schimmel (white horse riders being the omen of destruction and floods) this horse can walk the roofs of houses. The wild hunt takes places on the darkest day of the year. It's this time period that got a twist on our local lore. Some villages spoke of Perchta (Frigg) leading the hunt, others mention Saint Maarten (white horse and red cloak). We celebrate Saint Maarten on the 11th of November by parading with jack o lanterns and end it all with a massive bonfire. This all got mingled up during the many years. So yeah, we celebrate Saint Maarten, Sinter Klaas and Santa Claus over here....while it's actually the same symbol. The dark side got layered with a creamy topping of capitalism

[@tubab72]

Waarheid !

[@sirseigan]

What I have read there is several traditions that are associated with the America Santa, especially those that predominently comes from Germany/Netherlands, that in the european folklore is said to have been done for Odin (not Santa). Stuff like put out som oats for Odins horse and receive a gift in a boot or a sock as thanks. Giving Santa cookies (the Scandinavian Santa, "jultomten", originaly got a shot of "brännvin", vodka, so less kid friendly) goes in the same spirit. Same goes for the last of the harvested wheat that is in some places saved and given to "mrs wotan" or "mrs frekke", both meaning "mrs Odin". In many places she is named "Bertha" (the bright shining one) or Pertch, even Holla. She is associated with giving gifts to those who have done their shores and punish them who have not (like wip them, rip their intestents from them, giving them to her deamons to eat or other less nice stuff, not mearly give them coal). Here on can perhaps see a begining of santas "naughty list". And so on, and so on... So yes there is traces of old customs from several places merged into the traditions around the modern American Santa and some if them might be originally associated with Odin (but many is not) or his wife. In Scandinavia almost everything in Yule revolves around the dead spirits return to their home at Yule night. Guiding them, inviting them, take care of them and very important; ward of unfriendly spirits who also roam the landscape (and yes Odin and the wild hunt has a place in that too). But few today even reflect on why we put pine brushes on our doors, put out porrige to the "house ward" or must have a abundance of food and beer etc (that last like a week). It is just seen as "traditions", nothing more... But no; Odin is not Santa, and Santa is not Odin. The American santa compared to Odin is like Disneys kid friendly version of the "Sleeping Beauty" compared to the original story where she was raped by "prince charming" and forced to marry him... a slight shade darker story to put i mildly...

[@bwhitedpencilbox889]

Glad to see Perchta/holda mentioned! From my understanding Odin is a late addition to the stories and she is the real main deity in the alps/southern germany in the old days. Dunner(Thor) is much more common in the folk tradition there than odin

[@mormacil]

@@KurtFrederiksen Sinterklaas/Saint Nicolas isn't an exclusively Dutch figure. He is found in Germany, France, Austria, Belgium, North Sea Islands and probably some others I forgot. Now yes Santa is largely based on the Dutch version but the figure has many shapes and is quite widely known.

[@SaltborneHeathen]

Yeah, this is correct. Folklorists like Margaret Baker have talked about how Oðin influenced the cultural figure of ‘Father Christmas’, who in turn was merged with the figure of St. Nicholas of Myra. So he isn’t directly Santa Claus, but much of the folklore can be attributed to pre Christian beliefs

[@SaltborneHeathen]

Likewise, the sleigh and reindeer bear more resemblance to Thor’s chariot and his goats Tanngrisnir and Tanngnjóstr

[@mormacil]

@@SaltborneHeathen I don't think we should try and find the origin of all elements of Santa Claus in Norse mythology. There's also clear inspiration taken from Father Winter from Anglo-Saxon origins.

[@mythosandlogos]

You mean Odin wasn’t the Bishop of Myra and didn’t punch Arius in the face at the Council of Nicaea?

[@mrjones2721]

There was punching at the Council of Nicaea? I've got to read more church history.

[@mythosandlogos]

@@mrjones2721 Yep, Saint Nicholas hit Arius, who argued that Jesus wasn’t God.

[@zecuse]

Actually, that story doesn't appear until about 500 years after when the incident supposedly takes place, if I'm being generous. The earliest _written_ record of this doesn't appear until about 1000 years afterwards. Also, the more modern the story, the more embellished it gets. From a slap to a certain Arian, to a slap to bring Arius back to his senses, to a full on punch that puts Nicholas in jail and he confesses to Jesus and Mary.

[@elineeugenie5224]

Kudos for sorting out the chronology on this

[@kayoss2306]

The personification of Christmas as "Father Christmas" in English tradition goes back much farther than the modern myth of Santa Claus. Whilst the two names are now used synonymously, and the characters have merged into one, the original Father Christmas had nothing to do with children or gift giving. He was the personification of the season, and was mostly associated with excessive drinking, feasting and mischief.

[@meurisbjorn]

yes indeed and he is the protestant answer on St Nicholas who is 100% a christianized odin

[@christopherknorr2895]

Also, Father Christmas's role was to announce Christmas, playing the role of a messenger angel. Romans equated Odin with Mercury, the messenger of the gods. The divine wandering messenger is a strong archetypal throughline that connects Father Christmas (and therefore Santa) to Odin.

[@ravinraven3595]

And Christianity isn't just echos collected from older pagan religions?.. oh they're not the same colour, santa was changed to red by artists for coca cola. The blue n green come from the northern lights Before santa in Turkey.. The scandanavia twelve day festival, at Yuletide.. With odin, the all Father, flew around the skies, rewarding the good souls, on a flying horse that pulled sleighs? All the magic was already there, the tree, the gift bearer. Odin isn't santa.. But santa is odin

[@mattbaker7305]

That "Ho Ho Ho" had all the cheer, well wishing, and enthusiasm, of a court appointed, robotic courier serving someone divorce papers.

[@TheOldBlackShuckyDog]

No. But he does have ties to 'Father Christmas' here in Britain

[@chrstopherblighton-sande2981]

Britain's Father Christmas was a literary figure used to personify and celebrate Christmas (as well as defend it against the criticisms of radical protestants who disliked the festival for not being biblical) that first appeared in the early 1600s when invented by people like Ben Jonson and Thomas Nabbes. The way Father Christmas was personified to celebrate feasting and merry-making, made him resemble the roman Bacchus. Extremely different from any characterisation of Odin.

[@zenwisteria3698]

You're amazing. I found your channel a year ago and I am hooked with your videos! So informative and you communicate in such a way I am hooked! Thank you!

[@bomortensen7134]

well the scandinavian "julemand" originates in the "julenisse". the Julenisse does not wear red before coca-colafication of "Jul". and there is plenty of evidence that the "nisser" of todays scandinavia are connected to pre-christian religious traditions, not least in the tradition of sacrificing beer and porridge to the "julenisser". Jul was a major pagan feast where toasts were raised to the Gods. and some Norse legends claim that Odin came riding in the "julenat". So this dane disagrees, some link, in some traditions, is propable, though not proven.

[@Orzach221]

Of course, but there is a huge difference between saying "Some traditions survived the arrival of christianity, and merged with new traditions" and saying "This new christian tradition evolved from a previous scandinavian one". Besides, quite a big chunk of santa claus comes from the historial Saint Nicholas of Myra

[@Sandalwoodrk]

Funny how people make these connections Christmas is also associated with the Roman Saturnalia but I've never heard anyone claim the god Saturn is Santa.

[@heikep4906]

That´s funny. Maybe there is some reasoning about this on some of the channels about Ancient Rome? I really love Odin and for sure no one never ever will be able to convince me, that he is Santa Claus

[@AstridRohan]

I come to this channel for the information, I stay for the dry sarcasm.

[@parascopicvision]

I think all of this is sound, you make excellent points. I only disagree that the idea of The Wild Hunt and Santa Claus’ ride are mutually exclusive. It’s probable, to me, that after Christianization any remnants of The Wild Hunt as a terrible, frightening force might eventually be reimagined benevolently. But as you’ve stated, I don’t think the Santa Claus we have today definitively or originally stems from Odin-but elements may have been transposed lightly.

[@jpietersen519]

The connection with the Wild Hunt is pretty plausible. The traditions in NL/Germany/Switzerland have a 'proto-Santa' and various figures originally meant to scare children. It survives best in Switzerland with the demons.

[@nirfz]

Isn't Santa Claus based on Saint Nicholas of Myra? The traditions in Austria, switzerland, south tyrol, southern germany ect. Are that on the 6th of december Saint Nicholas visits children and rewards children who have been nice (usually with nuts and fruit and chocolade), and his compangion Krampus punishes those who have not. The Krampus sometimes is also named Knecht Ruprecht, Kramperl, Habergais... And while Saint Nicholas is based on the original person, a bishop. The origin of Krampus is not that documented. But both have nothing to do with norse mythology as they came up way later (after centuries of christianity). And as far as i know Santa Claus is a different use and depiction of saint nicholas in the english speaking world, additionally changed a lot by Coca Cola . (as they were the first to use the figure for commercial purposes) and Disney.

[@bwhitedpencilbox889]

Holda/Perchta was the original leader of the wild hunt and she was a benevolent figure, the hunt. She is a protector of children. The demons, Perchten, became demonized and more scary after Christianity. The goddess got demoted to witch or fairy queen and replaced with male figures after Christianity because they couldn’t get rid of the folk practices so they co-opted them They are benevolent and scary, in pagan times that was not a contradiction. There were beautiful and ugly Perchten and the ugly scary ones are to scare away the evil spirits of winter and protect the good people. More than the wild hunt goes into the modern Christmas and there was diverse Yule traditions but holda is the one that protects children, and visits during the 12 days of Yule/Christmas to bless the good and banish the bad

[@fugithegreat]

The modern Santa Claus seems like a total mishmash of influences, so I wouldn't be surprised if there wasn't at least an indirect influence from Scandanavian holidays and gods.

[@DeSvenster]

I believe it stems from Sinterklaas (Sint Nicolaas), where they've got the idea for Santa Klaus from. Also, a person dressed in all red, but he delivers gifts for good children on the night of 5th and 6th of December mainly in the Netherlands and Belgium. Many believe Sinterklaas was infact loosely inspired by Odin and, ofcourse, the actual Sint Nicolaas, patron saint of children. Sinterklaas rides a majestic white horse like Sleipnir, only, without the 8 legs :)

[@nokiaarabicringtone1418]

Now THAT is a youtube title

[@faramund9865]

Because it's misleading clickbait, yes.

[@ivan55599]

"commong misconseption" "around internet" - I must say, that in my echo chamber I haven't ever heard of that hypothesis.

[@mrjones2721]

That's because the Freemasons are hiding the truth from you, brother.

[@marvalice3455]

I've seen it a lot. My take is that it's iconoclasts looking for any excuse to call holidays pagan and reinforced by reddit atheists looking for any excuse to degrade christianity. Similarly, saturnalia had almost nothing in common with Christmas, and there are no links between Easter and fertility festivals

[@mrjones2721]

@@marvalice3455 The first person to explicitly connect Easter with a pagan fertility goddess was the Venerable Bede, who wrote in the 700’s-not exactly an iconoclast or a Reddit atheist. There’s debate about whether he was correct, but that doesn’t change the fact that discussion of continuity between pagan and Christian festivals goes back at least 1300 years. Don’t throw out the baby with the bathwater because a particular group of people annoy you.

[@kayoss2306]

@@marvalice3455 Surely it's just highly likely that Christianity would have merged with some of the pre-Christian customs and traditions? Do you think people just erased their cultures and started from scratch because they changed their religions? Where do you think the English word "Easter" comes from? Eostre, as it was once spelled, was likely a goddess of the dawn. You can see the etymological links with other indo-european dawn goddesses, such as Eos from Greek mythology. I don't see this as degrading to Christianity at all. It's just relics from history that have become engrained in the culture.

[@marvalice3455]

@@kayoss2306 santa didn't exist when Norse pagans did. Easter and eostre are in no way related. That's the phonetic fallacy, and the goddess has nothing to do with Easter. That was invented by iconoclasts(people who think it is sinful to associate pictures and festivals with christianity) Yes, pagans kept some of their traditions. But _not_ the holy days. That's not something the church has ever been ok with.

[@tiesthijsthejs]

I think if you base the argument purely on texts, it can hold. But culture is also sociologically embedded. It’s kind of amazing how many different renditions and cross-overs there are when it comes to myths. Odin wasn’t the template for Santa Claus, but Santa Claus is probably a mutation of Saint Nicolas and Nordic pixies (or Nisser). The Nisser aren’t directly connected to Nordic mythology. And Jul is very Christian nowadays. But local people also still live elements of Nordic and neo-Nordic mythology in traditions and customs. Jul is not simply Christian in Scandinavia. Now Nisser seem a crossover between cultural elements from Sami people (natives of northern Scandinavia) and Baltic mythologies that travelled to Europe in Indo-European times. Nisser are everywhere in Europe but mostly as gnomes. Also, the myth of the hunt (in my country there was the long forgotten pre-medieval myth of the Hunties, which is has many similar element like soot covered scorched gang of dead) has also had many renditions in Europe all over, from before the Nordic version. Like how most Nordic mythological elements come from elsewhere, as populations travelled and moved. To me, Santa Claus is a combination of those Nisser influences and an echo of the many renditions of the gift giver like saint Nicolas that can be found in different ways historically all over Europe from east through north to west. Some of those renditions remain lived culture. And all of those renditions used to be frightful rituals, somewhat like Krampus. This magical figure always hunted locals to both embody and scare the demons of human struggle and the demons of death and life and the demons of the dark season. And it had monstrous helpers. Together they judged people and at the end of the ritual there’s gifts and parties. For most of these renditions it’s clear that these have become mostly Christian, while still incorporating some elements (like how the burning of Christmas trees became a thing Christian bureaucrats probably appropriated in order not to alienate their newly converted populations). So yeah, Santa Claus isn’t Odin. But based on the many mutations and renditions and blends of rituals and mythologies over the past millennia, it’s quite possible the hybrids that the pioneers and later migrants brought with them to the New World, shuffled elements around when they got there. That’s how oral storytelling goes. That’s how modern marketing goes (they pick whatever fits). I know my argument is circumstantial but I think it’s pretty clear in the bigger picture of cultural changes. Maybe that’s just because of my background. I’m from a country where they celebrate saint Nicolas on his horse running over rooftops (with dark helpers, who together used to be way scarier in their operation, but this gradually became nicer (with some nasty racism in between) over the past two centuries). I’ve lived over a decade in a Scandinavian country while also studying culture which made me pay extra attention to their customs and myths, and for the locals i lived with it was obvious that Christmas was both Christian and pagan, including an emphasis on Nisser. Also, the Nisser have one sort of patriarch; a human-life-size pixie called father. Now, it remained unclear to those locals and me how Nisser are connected to Nordic mythology. Yet these elements blended naturally. To them Jul was the wheel of the seasons having reached its darkest phase, and during Jul and many other traditions they sang folk songs that refer to Viking times, while eating dishes with references to olden times. I have no idea what Jul meant to ancient Nordic populations. Did Vikings also already have Nisser in their ideas? When did these come into play? But I assume it’s very possible another different flux of influences came together in the US over the recent centuries. A wise Nissefar (father of the pixies alias Father Christmas) with elves (instead of Nisser and instead of blackened helpers), who travels in a flying carriage with kettle. No Odin isn’t Santa Claus. But Santa Claus might be somewhat related to Odin.

[@tiesthijsthejs]

I do wish mr Jackson had responded. My research has further confirmed the pegan Nordic importance of Nisser/Tomte (who have over the past centuries often resembled something very much like Santa Claus). Still not saying SC is Odin. But the link between SC and Nordic mythology is there for the taking. Nisser/tomte/pixies have actively played roles in Nordic mythology and became part of the antagonist propaganda by the Christians from the 12th century onwards, when the christening attempted to rid the people of the evil worship towards the Nisser/Wights/vættir. Come on dr Jackson, at least reject the Wild Ride around the solstice, at least reject SC looking very much like a nissefar/gnome who can be historically observed to have become less creepy over the centuries in cultural expressions.

[@rodneypearcey593]

I've never heard of Odin being confused with Santa Claus. I did hear (from random internet ramblings) that Odin while riding on the Great Hunt would reward children with small trinkets (like a small knife) to those who left hay in their shoes. Presumably for Odin to feed Sleipnir with. Again, just something I read online and not from a published literary resource.

[@korppipoika6976]

I'm not disagreeing that Odin is santa is a naive idea but I do wish you had done more research on joulupukki..! Santa really was a scary guest even in my grandparents childhood and there was option for naughty kids that he brought sticks that would be used to whip the misbehaving kids..! So yeah, coca cola santa is very different from what he used to be!

[@sienathewayfarer]

Also fun thing - male reindeer shed their antlers in the winter, so if you see a depiction of Santa with antlered reindeer, they're female

[@shewearswoolsocks2883]

That's funny! never really thought about it. We have seen male white tailed deer during Christmas here so must be shortly after that when they shed them. A good point though! Cheers!

[@SprocketTalker]

It's great to have a video I can send to people when this comes up, thanks for making it

[@MM-jn2om]

Popular urban fiction, Dresden Files by Jim Butcher took creativity with Odin and Santa Clause. Nice twist on fantasy. But, I expected ppl to keep Mind candy as just that, entertainment not canon.

[@wackyruss]

Grandfather Frost (Дед Мороз) is the Slavic/Russian version of Santa and often wears blue too. I'm still convinced this figure is based on Odin because there is a strong Scandinavian influence on Slavic mythology.

[@dragonboyjgh]

my understanding is the odin - santa connection started with people conflating Santa's aerial midnight run with the Wild Hunt (Ásgård-reið) that Odin leads. And indeed, Catholicism probably did syncretize that from norse myth along with a few other traditions from yule, because there's not anything in the Saint Nicholas stories that would imply flying sleighs, he just snuck gifts into the houses of the impoverished.

[@dragonboyjgh]

As for WHO started it, Overly Sarcastic Productions could be, if not patient zero, the popularizer.

[@TheSteveRobinson]

I'm not getting a battle axe for Christmas? WTH?

[@BillDeWitt]

Totally distracted by the rodent running around behind you...

[@pricklypear7516]

The ground squirrel in the introduction that "springs" 20 feet to the twang of the music makes me ridiculously happy. Every time.

[@BlackHermit]

What rodent?

[@Depipro]

@@BlackHermit On the bench to the right, then later running across to the left behind Dr. Crawford. Later still, he mentions getting distracted by a chipmunk himself, so now we can keep wondering whether it's the same one (I'm guessing it is).

[@grymhild]

Saint Nicholas who gave to the poor during the 3rd century. However, Saint Nicholas did not have gift making elves or flying capabilities.

[@farmrgalga]

You should probably check out the work Arnold Jan Scheer has done on Sinterklaas and Zwarte Piet (St Nicholas and Black Pete), and the Indo-European traditions that underlie these traditions in almost all of Europe. There seems to be a definite link between Santa (based on the Dutch Sinterklaas), but it has been corrupted so much, you can really not link Odin and Santa (the argument for Sinterklaas and Odin is a bit stronger)

[@faramund9865]

As a Dutch person, the similarities between 'Sinterklaas' and Wen are too striking to straight up say that it's NOT so. The poetry, the runes, the old gray bearded man with his staff (spear) that rides on his white horse over the roofs. I'm sorry but straight up saying IT'S NOT SO does not cut it AT ALL. On top of the fact that similar Sinterklaas figures with assistants with charcoal faces pop up all over the Germanic world... It's too much to be a coincidence. Furthermore the claim that's often made in the Netherlands that "Sinterklaas originates from this 'Jan Schenkman' book" is even more hilarious. It's like saying that the Norse myths ORIGINATE from the 'Kingsbook'. Or that Yule 'originates' from Ynglingasaga because it's mentioned there. On top of that there are many attestations of this celebration (although in a different form) from many centuries before that. Also here in the Netherlands for the longest time (until VERY recently) the 'zwarte pieten' came to PUNISH the children for bad behavior and REWARD them for good behavior. And Sinterklaas would put all the bad children in a bag and take them to Spain. So dismissing it on the basis of 'santa claus isn't frighting' also does not hold up. Sinterklaas was VERY scary for children. Now I'm not going to say DEFINITELY 100% it DOES have it's origins in Wen and Yule. But I AM going to say for 100% that you can't outright dismiss it so easily. And I think actually, that if you will look into it more yourself you WILL change your mind on this.

[@alexkm188]

Non white """"expert"""" tries to subvert. Are you really surprised

[@davidmee1822]

Literally just searched this after seeing the meme in question, it really puzzled me, thank you for the clarification my man.

[@dientjevh9193]

You are right and wrong. If you mix wine with a lot of water, the end product is not wine. Santa Claus is the coca Cola version of Sinterklaas, a still strong tradition in the Lowlands. Sinterklaas is the christianized version of an ancient tradition of Wodan and his army of the dead.

[@darrell3O87OO]

The red suit of Father Christmas (Santa) was created by Coca-Cola in an advertising campaign in the 1930s, by the company hired artist Haddon Sunbloom.

[@mormacil]

I'm pretty sure the red suit came from Saint Nick who wears a red outfit. The fact that santa is fat however is indeed created by Coca Cola.

[@floralkid]

it's been a long time since I heard "meme" used with its original meaning

[@danielbrown4031]

Odin was/is one of the leaders of the Wild Hunt, Europeans would try to appease him by leaving milk and sweets. The Christmas tree is the World Tree. EDIT: I hadn't finished the video before commenting, you addressed that at the end.

[@pystykorva7114]

In Finland we still have the pagan time name for Santa Claus which is Joulupukki (Joulu+Pukki). The pagan character did quite different things than Santa back in the days but the name has survived :)

[@MartinMunthe]

Not even Santa was Santa a hundred years ago.

[@dolphwong]

You're comparing him to Coca-Cola Santa Claus which is really the only Santa Claus but the question is where did all these "Christmas traditions" originate and we all know the answer to that.

[@olaf6987]

They too originate from Coca Cola ads and Randomly Appearing Trends in 19th century Germany. Lol

[@olaf6987]

@I.M Why is Odin called the Yule Lord then. Why all the other 'nisse' we decorate with, and have folk mythology of? Why the sacrifice of porridge in the barn? Why the regional connection of the Tomtenisse with the Haugebonde.... If you are Norwegian I can explain it to you, if not, you have some research to do.

[@olaf6987]

@I.M Ok. Misunderstanding. My first comment was a joke, that is why I wrote "lol". But I will stop joking on the internet. Being Norwegian is easier to know of things we take for granted, but foreigners have no idea. That's what I meant.

[@olaf6987]

@Samael The goats are connected to re-birth. In Scandinavia we went (and some places still go) julbokk, where children dress in goat skin and go around like on halloween. We also burn straw goats some places. They have to do with re-birth, like Thor rejuvaninating his goats each day by fire in the mythology. The children are reborn with the ancestral spirit in Christmas. This is Odin re-born. That is why the central piece of celebration is the Christmas tree (Yggdrasil, from which Odin hanged before re-birth, Nine Long Nights). Before Christmas we have Santa Lucia celebration, which is the Elves (Spirits of the Ancestors) returning to our world, awakening the underworld (dwarves (lit. Underworld Dweller)/nisse/(or I think elves or gnomes you call them in English). This is why in modern Scandinavian folklore the Nisse starts dancing in the barn/cellar in Christmas. In pre-christian times it was the ancestors spirit returning in the Grave Mound, which is why the old grave mounds have an opening that recieves light only on Winter Solstice (look up bronze age, and even some viking graves on Wikipedia, and you can see for yourselves, this was the case from Ireland to Denmark).

[@olaf6987]

@Samael Yes. Bear is also common as symbol for rebirth. Common European roots, remnants of pre-christian Europe.

[@Scaboid]

Love it. Thanks, Dr. Crawford, and thanks to all the patrons for supporting these and helping Dr. Crawford to keep them going. Good stuff, brother.

[@CyberBlastoise]

"When Odin gives gifts he plans to reap you" And so does Santa, aka the spirit of capitalism

[@MartinMunthe]

as brought to you by the Coca Cola Company.

[@josephpeck8723]

True.

[@floodgates182]

Nonsense. It's atheistic materialism which bred Christmas into a festival of excessive gift giving, not Santa, nor Odin.

[@josephpeck8723]

@@floodgates182 Isn't capitalism materialistic as well to a degree?

[@floodgates182]

@@josephpeck8723 Is snow wet?

[@jacobpast5437]

Slei(gh)pnir comes from "sleigh puller". And his 8 hooves left 8 large spots in the snow on the roof each about the size of a reindeer laying down to rest.

[@dryciderz]

Good one 😉

[@codywilber6885]

Could those sililarities be chracteristics in the way writers incoroprate aspects of different characters to create new ones? Drawing from a source but changing key features to be more acceptable socially?

[@dinojack9000]

I would say Santa Claus definitely has some scary/Odin-y vibes. I mean he's all-seeing and all-knowing. "He sees you when you're sleeping, he knows when you're awake. He knows if you've been bad or good..." which implies some amount of punishment for misbehavior. We also have "you better watch out, you better not cry, you better not pout..." which seems ominous... Santa is explicitly a bringer of boons or ills, especially in the early material where he's associated with beating naughty children, and this "gift-giver" aspect I think may be traceable to the apportionment of war spoils from a king. I don't know if Odin is ever in that role, but he is associated with leading warriors (I think), and the process of dividing up war prizes calls to mind the sort of judgment Santa passes before handing out presents. Now, Christmas in general has some spooky associations, considering the focus on ghosts and spirits in the famous Charles Dickens story, along with the classic line "there'll be scary ghost stories, and tales of the glories of Christmases long long ago...". Not to mention the connection between Trick-or-Treating and Caroling, or the connection between warding away evil spirits and end-of-the-year holiday celebrations (perhaps connected to the days getting longer again as winter ends, symbolizing victory over evil) which may connect the spooky leftovers of Christmas traditions to the thriving spooky holiday of Halloween. In addition to that, I must say that one of the forerunners to the modern Santa is Father Christmas, who is often depicted in blue, akin to Odin (although green and red are also seen). This is not to say that Santa is secretly Odin or anything, but thinking of an old bearded man who can see and know everything, who is associated with Yule, lives far away from society, seems to have had a somewhat scary character at one point, and possesses a flying carriage, especially one associated with the number 8, it certainly seems that Odin has *some* influence on the character of Santa Claus. While Norse and pagan Germanic beliefs have obviously died out over time, in terms of what people profess, often times it can be seen that some of these beliefs survive in practice via folklore and notably in holiday customs, which seem *very* old. I would not be surprised if Odin, or a very late descendant figure of Odin, or some preserved holiday-exclusive English variant on Odin (highly unlikely), was a COMPONENT of Santa Claus, but I do agree that some people jump to conclusions about the whole Odin = Santa thing, and spread misinformation. Although I stand by the fact that Santa and Odin are at least somewhat connected.

[@anneagasster9714]

Odin has never been Santa Claus in Scandinavia and Santa Claus in Scandinavia does not have red clothes, the first to draw Santa Claus red was Louis Prang in 1885. In Norwegian folk tales they only have red hats but, not all Santas have red hats. It depends entirely on where they live. The American Santa started In 1925, Santa Claus traveled with the sleigh, gifts and reindeer from the mall to the mall around the United States. In addition, there was a Sami who looked after their own reindeer. The Sami were the original elves who looked after the reindeer and in 1933 Coca Cola picked up the commercial concept, then Disney came immediately a few years later. Odin and the Norwegian Santa are much older than this and have no reindeer or red clothes

[@markusass]

Woden IS Father Christmas though. We still use Father Christmas in England, even though Santa is making inroads due to the Americanization of UK culture.

[@andrewreiter5664]

Are you really trying to tell me that the Macy's Parade isn't in praise of the glory of the Allfather?? 🤔

[@hglundahl]

Is it correct, mid winter blót would be sth like February 2nd? I mean, end of January and beginning of February are the coldest parts of the year in Scandinavia (definitely in Scania, from where the peninsula has its Latinised name, I've lived there for quite a while).

[@BillDeWitt]

Well, there is the "All seeing" part compared to the "Sees you when you're sleeping" thing, which is creepy.

[@jackpayne4658]

You can imagine Huginn and Muninn flapping around some poor child's bedroom, like Harry Potter's owls.

[@donkeysaurusrex7881]

@@jackpayne4658 When Elf on the Shelf isn’t enough to make the kids behave.

[@Pengalen]

Not sure if he originated it, but you can probably thank Jim Butcher for at least popularizing it.

[@carlpult5235]

When clicking this vid, I thought: "Isn't he sorta? well Dr.JC is an expert, I'ma hear his stuff" but the arguments you debunked were... really bad, I've never heard any of them and without having studied the texts I'd be able to brush those off at a dinner party. Not a single "oh wow it's all connected"-Argument. What I did however hear in the past was a connection based on Tradition aka SC not being a "copy" of Odin but rather based on stories and Interpretations that themselves are in some way related to/based on Odin. I would enjoy seeing that debunked but can imagine it being methotically challenging or impossible.

[@mormacil]

I agree, I think this might've been one of his weakest videos to date

[@philwarner7171]

The current concept of Santa Claus in the social imagination is an amalgam of Father Christmas, Saint Nicholas, and Coca-Cola advertising. The Odin link comes in through the Father Christmas angle.

[@radagast7200]

Odin isn't Santa. Santa has two eyes and no crows.

[@radagast7200]

@@ThW5... what?

[@demi3115]

@@radagast7200 what what?

[@demi3115]

@@ThW5 snap ik. I was just confused what radagast didn't understand about what you said :)

[@emmetpbyrne]

Thank you for this, its something I will need to correct with my students, I made the point to my classes that there are similarities between the two traditions. Much like how many cultures have a similar things. One I find funny here in Ireland is that Santa uses robins as spies where as Odin has his two ravens that tell him what they saw at the end of each day.

[@TheAschwittek]

I always wondered why Santa was equated with Odin, he wouldn't willingly go out of his way to just give gifts, I'll admit I went with it though, thank you Dr. Crawford for correcting a misconception I had!

[@WhiskeyLimaDelta]

Am I the only one that laughed at the "ho ho ho" intro ?

[@Wanderer_of_Sol]

I'd love a video on the topic of the wild hunt and Odin's association with it. That's something I didn't know about, and a lot of the information I can find on the wild hunt generally falls into modern or newage junk.

[@seanboyd2898]

I had always understood that the story of the Wild Hunt also had stories of those who tricked/evaded the Hunt and were rewarded for their intelligence by the Lord of the Hunt with gifts. Plus I could see someone looking at Father Christmas, and seeing some comparisons back to Odinn, although that I would more say is just the two coming from some common root of a king figure looking after their subjects in harsh times.

[@jasondillow2630]

Then you should also subscribe to Arith Harger's YT channel. Pretty sure he did a lengthy video on the Wild Hunt.

[@TheGrinningViking]

If you want a modern example of coincidental, but highly amusing, old Norse connection look up the roots of the name "Rudolph", it's pretty directly tied to Hróðr Olf, fame wolf, and the mental image of Fenrir pulling around Odin in a tiny red sleigh is pretty hilarious. There's an legitimate argument to make that Santa is a christianized version of an old tradition, with some study of early Christianity, because whatever the figure was that became Santa it was taken in two ways by Christians in different countries. Some integrated the custom, giving us Santa. Some demonized it but didn't manage to extinguish it, and we got Krampus. If it was an old Norse tradition it almost certainly involved the álfr anyways, who we do know were celebrated at different times and for different reasons as a kind of helpful spirit. None of this indicates Odin was a Santa like figure, but it is interesting to think about.

[@SamM-lv8hr]

But krampus isn't a replacement for Santa? He's a demon in Santa's service, illustrating St. Nicholas's mastery/supremacy over malevolent spirits/pre-Christian figures

[@TheGrinningViking]

@@SamM-lv8hr Historically they merged back together after separating from a common root. Interesting stuff!

[@daddyleon]

If you don't want to see what was the inspirational root of Santa Claus how can you be so sure that Odin wasn't the inspiration? How Santa is regarded now could've slowly evolved away - just look at Sinterklaas/Saint Nick or Krampus, that's certainly changed over the years.

[@NukaLemonade]

So you're saying that if Odin were Santa Claus, he would ride an eight-legged spider-deer. I would like to submit that we start teaching children that Santa has a pet spider-deer.

[@lokelmon4514]

norse cowboy has uploaded

[@jackpayne4658]

I've had a sudden vision of a movie, rather like 'The Nightmare Before Christmas'. Odin disguises himself as Santa, and distributes age-inappropriate gifts like swords to small children. His project aims to recruit a youthful battalion of his army in preparation for Ragnarok - you could call it the infantry. Eventually, someone saves the day - and the children. I'm still working on the denouement.

[@mrjones2721]

I would watch that movie. I'd watch it even harder if the kids refused to go back to normal life and stayed in Odin's army. My inner kid would be all over that.

[@silver6380]

what kind of trees are those?

[@wodensthane6194]

A tradition is that Woden would ride his horse sleipnir to kids homes and the kids would leave boots (stockings) with fruit or vegetables for sleipnir and Odin would leave candy and or little gifts for the children. It’s not as outlandish as you say to make the connection. St. Nicholas obviously is very warped and changed and no, you are right they are not the same, but to say there is no influence is a bit out there for me.

[@julesthefly1485]

I once read that there was a connection in terms of idea, not necessarily in terms of the same origin, between Oski and the Nikolaus myths of Germany (after St. Nikolaus of Myra, = Santa Claus). More convincingly, a second connection with the German folk myths about Nikolaus is because of Knecht Ruprecht - the Nikolaus is accompanied by a polar opposite, the “Knecht Ruprecht” (Knecht is a groom, or servant) who teams up with him (on the 6th of December, not on Christmas) to bring punishment to bad children, while the Nikolaus brings sweets for good children. Supposedly there is a connection between (Knecht) Ruprecht and Odin namewise (hruod percht, in recent German “ruhmreicher Percht”), and the bad rep was as a result of christianization (and Ruprecht was the one who originally brought gifts). No idea if that is true though...?

[@julesthefly1485]

Oh, and Wotans Wilde Jagd (Wotan’s = Odin’s wild hunt) is believed to take place in Germany specifically during the twelve days of Christmas ( 25th to 5th) - another connection, if only time-wise. The weather is indeed often extremely harsh here during that time, including the coldest temperatures in the year typically, and howling winds ;-)

[@geekparkingonly2802]

Loki is the tooth fairy 4sure

[@thomaswillard6267]

I dislike videos such as this, because there are traditions outside of the Sagas that connect Odin-figures and their various wild hunts to gift giving and to the winter season. This indicates that even if Santa =/= Odin, Odin-figures may have inspired modern Santa.

[@FrankUnknown]

I struggle to think of a less Santa-Claus-like figure than Odin.

[@teddyduck2251]

I think the people who say this really mean that parts of Santa that cannot be traced back to St Nicholas, like Elves making toys and Flying Reindeer, were in fact inspired by Odin, though not actually being

[@MrEnaric]

Maybe it's too simple and '19th century' to say 'Santa is Odin', but denying any link between them is also an oversimplification in my opinion. The popular mediaeval Saint Nicolaus of Myra has some 'pre Victorian' traits that could derive from Wodan/Wōden/Wotan/Óðinn. In the eight century Merseburger Zaubersprüche (charm, discovered 1841), Wodan is mentioned, healing the leg of Balder's horse ( 'bên zi bêna, bluot zi bluoda'). A late echo of this charm was collected in the Netherlands near the german border from farmers and horsedealers (Limburg, Brabant, Gelderland) before the actual discovery of the original text. Here saint Nicholas is mentioned as the one healing 'been bij been, bloed bij bloed'(bone to bone, blood to blood). The charm was still in use at the start of the 20th century among farmers who sprinkled holy water on a strained horseleg while reciting the charm. At least some traits of the old god passed on to the saint it would appear.

[@heathenwolf4997]

What species are those trees? The white ones behind you in the beginning.

[@danieltabin6470]

What are your thoughts on the Norse and the association of dogs and warriors and the wild hunt and especially the former's association with Yule / the winter solstice? I became interested in this because of the following article I read: www.academia.edu/6683149/Midwinter_dog_sacrifices_and_warrior_initiations_in_the_Late_Bronze_Age_at_the_site_of_Krasnosamarskoe_Russia?email_work_card=title

[@yelena7997]

USA Santa Clause wears bright Coca-Cola red. The Coke Co. used a jolly fat Santa in their early advertising to promote Coke & Coke w/alcohol- a fairly new way of drinking hard liquor, hence the jolly red face. Coke went on to patent that color Coca Cola red- Santa & Coke have been Coca red ever since. Peace.

[@bjornpetersson8790]

The christian saint Nikolaus known for his gifts is in christian tradition not mixed up with the birth of Jesus Christ. He is celebrated there in another time of the year. Santa is a commercial product for the most. The time of the year for the birth of Jesus is not mentioned in the bible. It seems a good tactic of the churc to place it at the same time as the celebration of the roman god Saturn and also Midvinterblot.

[@halfabapandmusket]

I've read links that Odin would give the children "presents" after they returned from the forest or mound of the dead, related to a reincarnation ritual, the children would also take the name of a dead relative, that happens from "halloween" to the Yule, ergo the story of generous man could have been stolen from the then "paganism" way to a Christian way, as many things and places were.

[@danntheman865]

I always thought people got santa mixed up with thor. Didnt he have a sleigh pulled by goats and when it road through the sky it cracked thunder and lightning (donner and blitzen). Isnt odin closer to father time??

[@peterknutsen3070]

A chariot (vogn in Danish), implying that it had wheels, whereas a sleigh has runners.

[@kamielheeres8687]

What I was told was that when christian missionaries came to northern europe they associated the various pagan gods with certain christian saints in order to make the conversion of the pagans easier. The saint that was associated with wodan was saint Nicholas.

[@richardblkmann3298]

So many of the things you stated solidifies why Oðin would in fact be the inspiration behind the origins of Santa Claus..

[@shewearswoolsocks2883]

Always thought he was tied to Father time? It's interesting trying to connect the dot's! or maybe disconnect them ? lol Cheers!

[@jessejackson7486]

Interesting, I was always under the impression that the christians used the image of Odin to make it easier for the newly converted pagans to have an easier Transition to christianity. Thanks for the info

[@tylersouza]

They did use Odin (and basically every other god in every culture) to convert pagans, but that doesn't mean Santa is a derivative of Odin. What instead is more believable is that some saint in germanic speaking areas (I couldn't name which) is instead derivative of Odin.

[@stoferb876]

The christians taking on pagan imagery was largely a thing that had already happened in the roman empire centuries earlier. By the time the vikings came on the scene it was scandinavia adopting images from the mediterran world, not the other way around. Pictures of christian figures were often inspired by former pagan dieties that had played a role in the roman world, but Odin had not been known by the pagan romans, so obviously no christian missionary cared about making jesus or any saint look like him.

[@Tsotha]

@@stoferb876 yeah the typical image of God as an old man with a long beard sitting on his throne in Heaven is just Zeus, the typical depiction of Hell owes more to Tartarus in Greek mythology than anything described in the Bible etc

[@jessejackson7486]

Fantastic, I love all the conversation. I'm always open to learning more about this. You guys are a great community.

[@Infected_Apple]

@@tylersouza saint nicholas is a saint that takes up such a role in a lot of Germanic area traditions

[@scaldedape6213]

Kid on Santa's knee: Odin, is that you? Odin: No! Ho ho ho. Dr. Crawford: Alright kid, times up.

[@Marnox]

Any toughts on Odins connection to Kong Vinter regarding the relation with Santa Claus?

[@donkeysaurusrex7881]

Who is Kong Vinter? I have not heard of him previously.

[@Marnox]

@@donkeysaurusrex7881 similar to Jack Frost. Kong Vinter/King Winter is the personification of winter itself.

[@codyoverton447]

Just to be clear because I can’t remember Odin is pronounced as both Othan and Wodin right? Or I guess it’s more like Wódin? Man I suck at linguistics.

[@codyoverton447]

Never mind the next video in my feed answered it in its title!

[@harpsichordkid]

Dang it...I guess that explains why I keep getting sucky gifts. I’ve been leaving Sæhrímnir and mead out beside the tree every year.

[@Makarosc]

It because of how they're described

[@engarland]

Well I was told that coca cola had changed santa clause from an 8 legged horse to reindeer but coco cola aparently changed it. Also I was told that Odin took many shapes and him wearing a red outfit was one of the and didn't Odin in the Thor movie wear a read cape or outfit.

[@peterknutsen3070]

Before Coca-Cola, Santa Claus was as likely to be depicted in green as in red, as I understand it.

[@nikitachaykin6774]

Old man with grey/white beard wearing blue, related to winter holidays, caries stuff/spear, giving gifts of related to death, tricking unworthy with their greed and pride into death, it seems like you are describing Russian Grandfather Frost! Thou, i never heard about Grandfather Frost gathering an army to fight in last battle, but details....

[@donkeysaurusrex7881]

That was who I thought of when he said blue clothes. It still seems like a weak connection (though I’m no expert in either culture), but there is proof of a time when Ded Moroz was thought of as a more fearful being than he is now portrayed as.

[@nikitachaykin6774]

@@donkeysaurusrex7881 Now, he is much more about making you to participate in embarrassing contests and hanging out with hot girl (of unknown relationship to him) . I guess the issue is that this is Ded Moroz version of contemporary corporate parties, children gatherings and advertisements. We do not know how Odin would look like if he would be a character from ads campaign. Btw, did Odin has some kind of Snegurochka girl character next to him? Elsa from Frozen would work, but i do not think Frozen have Odin in it.

[@AndyGamezoldschool]

Isn't it because of Krampus? I didn't get 2much into it but I read something about this Odin like character having a Sack and inside is Krampus some demon looking thing. He beats up kids if they're bad or something.