Cabling challenge with the Victron Multiplus. Is there enough space?

[@PeaceChanel]

Thank You, Peace.. Shalom.. Salam.. La Paz.. Namaste .. 🙏🏻 😊 🌈 ✌ ☮️ ❤️ 🕊

[@russkubes]

Even I jumped when the breaker finally tripped while you were pressing the button. Lol!

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

Even you're expecting it, it still unexpected 😂

[@Aconda]

I like solution A, I would have chosen it myself.

[@dstevens7614]

You always make working Fun. What a good guy. Heat the cable with the heat gun to bend the cables . Good nite buddy…

[@wayne8113]

Thanks Andy

[@TheDarkfairy47]

Guten Morgen Sehr gut und übersichtlich, die Übersetzung ( Lachen) am frühen Morgen ist immer gut.

[@maxklinger6023]

Andy, I would put an extra piece of 50mm x 50mm at a 45 degree angle which would take out a sharp turn for your 70mm2 cable.

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

Don't spoil my idea... 😉

[@excillisbank2611]

Enfin la connection de l'onduleur ! aller la suite 😅

[@Dutch_off_grid_homesteading]

Heya, yes it's nice to have some slak in the cable to move around but a wither duct would be handy too

[@kgsalvage6306]

Alternative energy is a great hobby!

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

It is in deed, so rewarding!

[@todamnbad]

Your build is very enviable

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

Thank you. It took me long enough to get to this stage😉

[@todamnbad]

@@OffGridGarageAustralia im sure it has, not only is it very well planned out but the added time it takes to bring us along on your journey probably doubles your build time

[@amagro9495]

There is some topics about the using of that switch with 48v battery systems in DIY Solar Power Forum, and there is some posts of Blue Sea staff indicating to not use it, since the max voltage is 48v, and the 48v battery banks exceeds easily those voltages.

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

It's always called a 48V as the nominal voltage event he switches and other gear can be used for higher voltage.

[@amagro9495]

@@OffGridGarageAustralia This is the reply from Blue Sea: "Our battery switches have a 48-volt Maximum rating. So typically, 12, 24- & 36-volt systems that would never exceed 48 volts. Our switches are not rated for 48-volt systems that will reach near 60 volts in some cases. That would be well over the max we have been approved for by the UL Listing we have been certified for."

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

@@amagro9495 I wonder why all the companies and installers are using these switches then...

[@amagro9495]

@@OffGridGarageAustralia I'm just sharing Blue Sea reply's found in DIY Solar Power Forum. If they advice to not use it, we should simply not use it.

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

@@amagro9495 So what's the solution/alternative?

[@aussiescotty2950]

Hi Andy, You could add another 50mmx50mm duct to the vertical & the horizontal to accomodate more cables. Cheers.

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

Yes, this was in consideration... I managed to get them all in but there is no room for any further cables right now which I don't like...

[@stanislavmlcuch2085]

Andy nice work 👌 I thought at first, that you put some DC breakers to the box for inverters also. Just to have all breakers in one place. You still can mount this breaker onto the your power wall. 😉

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

Well, if you watch some previous videos we had the discussion around the breakers. That was my original idea until I found there are no 200A circuit breakers for DIN rail mount which would fit into the switchboards at the front. Victron actually recommends these 200A mega fuses for the inverters.

[@madtec3348]

I love it COOL !!!

[@joshg1244]

Looking pretty nice. I use a similar “red” switch and it works pretty well but I faced the same issue with alignment. When I turn on the inverter I use my precharge resister and two test leads with alligator clams on both sides of the switch.

[@jounik]

I'm surprised the switch doesn't have the option of removing and rotating the lever and the label ring by 90 degrees.

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

It cannot be rotated or I haven't figured it out maybe 🤷‍♂️

[@SoluSolaire]

Victron On/Off switch is better for that matter

[@kgsalvage6306]

I do the same thing, using precharge resistors.

[@kgsalvage6306]

I've been thinking about wiring in precharge resistors permanent and use a momentary switch.

[@jamest.5001]

The German I learned from watching Hogan's Heroes, I guess you can say ,. I know nothing, I see nothing, haha,

[@jornheitmann3206]

gesuchert : das sind halt die Niederländer. Nice work. But a DIY Batteryshelf will never be ready, everytime u think about it, you will be ready, you will finde some options to optimize it. That´s the hard truth about DIY, you will ever find way´s too optimize your stuff. But ever ask "Is it nesserey ?" Nimm dir ein kaltes Bier und denk nochmal drüber nach. . . . Weiter so.

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

Ich hatte schon so viele Biere und hab ueber dem Regal gebruetet 😂🍺 Ist doch auch schon wenn es immer wieder etwas zu tun gibt, finde ich...

[@magicmanspaz]

Yeh don't go to tight on those blue sea switches they crack and the stud spins. Also m5 bolts do fit to mount them. I used the 2 way versions and have a resistor on position 1 to pre charge the inverter before I switch to position 2 full connect.

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

Thank you. Do we need a pre-charge option at all?

[@magicmanspaz]

@Off-Grid Garage Its a good way to extend the life of the switch and also take some stress off the bms when you flick on the system. You can probably do without it with decent switches and such and over size bms but its easy to include.

[@SoluSolaire]

Hi Andy! Try to have both wires running side by side against the wall like that you will have room for second pair of wires in front of them ;) cheers !

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

Yes, that's what I thought but we have these crossings when they connect to the switch so it's a bit messy in these small ducts.

[@SoluSolaire]

@@OffGridGarageAustralia drill them with a wire bracket

[@PowerPaulAu]

Next video... Andy replacing the ducts with something bigger ;)

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

How do you... ?

[@upnorthandpersonal]

Once they started on the French line they just gave up and wrote "don't reverse the polarity".

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

Hahahaha, yeah! 😂😂😂

[@TheFikotech]

Looks good now

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

Thanks.

[@jackoneil3933]

Cool, I like the idea of adding those big old battery switches, a prudent decision. One thing perhaps worth mentioning is that when considering main or service disconnect switches, is the current interrupting rating, or the rated maximum amount of current that the device can reliably interrupt when under a load over it's rated constant current capacity. Or basically how big of an instantaneous short-circuit current can it withstand and still open a circuit without the contacts welding closed or blowing apart. On a 250v 30amp frame circuit breaker that might see that rating at 50,000 amps, but battery disconnects such as you have there are not typically rated as or considered as a 'Disconnecting Device" like a circuit breaker or mains disconnect switch, but rather just switch, like a light switch that is protected by a short-circuit protection device such as a fuse or an over current device such as a circuit breaker. with your fuses in line with that switch it's protected from over-current damage and therefore functions as simply a disconnect switch, and not an over-current protection device or emergency over-current disconnect.

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

It's typical for switches to have a label next to them saying "Do not operate under load". The load for this switch will be 100A max and it is capable of switching 300A-900A. I would still not recommend doing it as these switches don't have a arc chamber inside like the circuit breakers have.

[@jackoneil3933]

@@OffGridGarageAustralia Thanks! Good point Andy. My points in my comments have been intended more for the general audience was to impress concepts that might be useful to them, such why they need to use protection and be aware of the importance overload protection and sizing components to load ratings. Grounding and over current/short circuit protection along with best practices which you excel at are perhaps what are most often missing from other DIY Videos and perhaps what many come back to your channel for🍺🍺

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

@@jackoneil3933 Thank you. Always appreciate you comments and input!

[@evil17]

All good points here. I have purchased a similar marine type switch, but have also been considering the pro’s n cons of using a contactor as a main interrupt mechanism, what do you think Andy? Is there a reason not to use large contactors? I have seen them on Ebay 400-600Amp 12v-60v solenoid ranges for $100-$150ea. A large contactor could be controlled with smaller switch’s , DIN rail mounted in your dust proof enclosure, etc, with a host of other safety features being able to be built in with an electrical contactor as a main or backup current interrupt. I do like ur No Ark’s though they do look pricey and a fair bit more to mount and configure. Love ur vids Andy

[@jackoneil3933]

@@evil17 Personalty, I think a contactor could be useful and prudent. That's what's most EV use in conjunction with a smart safety system but I would not use one as the the only overload, short-circuit and disconnecting mechanism. I've seen a lot of AC contractors weld closed as they have only a little spring to push the contacts open. Instant trip breakers that use electronic current sensing rather than a thermal spring to trip, are often motorized or use a powerful mouse trap/solenoid trip to drive the contacts open. When using a contactor on high-amp DC systems with large inrush current to caps on inverters, I'd want a fuse and/or circuit breaker. For protection incase the control circuit did not work or the contacts happened to weld closed.

[@PeterMilanovski]

I would have preferred to move the two mega fuses to be on top of the cables instead of underneath. Should you need to replace a fuse, you are going to need to remove the cable and put it somewhere while the new fuse goes in. Not sure if those cables will short something if they touch anything in there but I feel that it would be far safer if the cables stay in place during a fuse change... That would be Geil.... Just like Bruce and Bongo in their famous song LoL 🤣

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

I hope I will never have to replace these fuses. The inverter should actually shutdown itself due to overload long before that. If I change them, I would turn off the main breaker anyway which isolates the bus bar. It is far too dangerous to work on a live system which such a power.

[@Bastler95m]

you could have gone with the 60V DC rated C125 breakers instead of the fuses? they can take up to 50mm² wire/cable and you can use them as main switch for your inverter. I personally would work on the 48V live, none of the poles seems to be connected to the chassis and ground so if I touch only one pole I'm either connected to only the positive or the negative. But turning everything off is still right, especially if you feel uncomfortable working on the 48V. I work on 24V everytime without turning off the powersupply and those are grounded to earth ground on the negative side.

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

Victron recommends the 200A fuses for these inverters so I went that. Apparently there are some DC breakers out there with larger terminals but none of them can fit a 70mm cable (again a recommendation from Victron for this inverter to minimise ripple under high load). I also would not have been able to fit a 70mm cable into the switchboard at the front without any custom made busbar links.

[@evil17]

Andy, have you given any consideration to using large Maxwell Capaitors, (possibly very close to the inverters) to help smooth any potential ripple and load share the peaks as pumps, heavy loads, etc , on start up? I dont know if this lifepo4 chemistry is making large capaitor banks at the inverter nearly obsolete nowadays compared to the huge advantages it has given to other chemistries in the past. I recently purchased a heap of Maxwell 16v strings and a few 48v banks as well, as are used in trains, elevators, etc, because I believe they do help tremendously as an extra high current buffer, particularly when coupled directly to the inverter with heavy cabling. Cheers

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

@@evil17 No consideration in doing this. The ripple at my inverters is very low. I use 70mm² cable which is almost twice as much as technical needed. I think having just larger supply cables makes such additional installations obsolete.

[@argorito]

ask for some reward to your sponsor, the one on the shelf hehehehehe.... looking better and better.-

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

Thank you. I think they are watching 🍺🍺🍺

[@waynescheepers145]

Almost there. Look at it this way. The switch I off in the up position and point to the right when on. So look at it like this. If it's point up means inverter power stops here(stop hand signal points up) If it point to the right it's pointing to the ac meaning it's live and sending power that direction.

[@waynescheepers145]

@Off-Grid Garage, this doesn't look legit, phising possibly

[@SoundzAlive1]

So we are not confused. Andy: Solution A it will B. 5:28 André

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

What??? 😂

[@SoundzAlive1]

@@OffGridGarageAustralia Hey Andy, I gave you time stamp. I thought it was funny as "be" and "B" are the same sounding. I assumed you would see the funny side. André

[@unimog404]

hahaha the Dutch is correct on the sticker :D

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

I wonder why 😂

[@Tek69]

Could have made some custom aluminium lug links to suit mounting on the left hand side.

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

Yes, that could have worked indeed. Next time!

[@somebody1869]

What about the Blue Sea RBS ML-7700 remote battery switch? It is no rated to switch 48V nominal with either a 12v or 24v coil. It’s a bistable relay with on-device and remote button operation. I’m using that as my main contactor for my 16s 304Ah EVE pack for my boat.

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

That's not possible from an emergency perspective as you have to rely on some auxiliary voltage which may or may not be available in this situation. I rather rely on a mechanical switch. Maybe that's just me though.

[@airgead5391]

You can by socket converters. (for instance 3/8 to 1/2 inch)

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

Already done 😉 More tools, hahaha.

[@airgead5391]

@@OffGridGarageAustralia More tools: always good! (says a tool junkie) 😁

[@NightcoreSM]

What was with the minus pole on the multiplus? Should it be only PCB? Bid you ever get an answer to that

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

Yes, many have posted comments under the video saying theirs look the same. Apparently it is a multilayer PCB and can handle the currents easily.

[@Sanwizard1]

Andy, call Blue Sea. I do not believe the switch you are using is rated for the use case you are using, since it is over 48V when charging. Thats what their support team told me.

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

They are for 48V systems. 48V is the nominal voltage and goes from 40V-58V.

[@hans-wernerotto6565]

Andy - Moin from the Baltic ! - watch the specs of Blue Sea Switch 350 A - there is max Voltage 32 VDC ! Wie gut der brennt kannst Du bei der SY Jambo hier auf KZbin sehen, Einhand von Caribbean to Helgoland, er hatte das gerade noch löschen können.... Ich bin aber begeistert von Deinen Beiträgen !

[@edwardbyrd7667]

Andy. I have heard that given the lithium battery voltages ranging in the 50s that 48 volt switches were unsafe, and that you needed a 60 volt switch. I use a 48 volt switch myself, but would welcome your comments on the debate

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

No, no, no. 48V is the nominal voltage of the system, that's what the switches are designed for. In a 48V system the voltage can go from 40V to almost 60V. That is all good.

[@dobrzpe]

@@OffGridGarageAustralia i'm sure it's fine. BUT, blue sea systems state the "MAX" voltage as 48V. they basically say it's designed for up to a 36v nominal system. there is LOTS of talk about it in online forums. i'm no electrical engineer, and don't *quite* understand the ramifications of using it on a 48v nominal system... but i'm guessing that there is just more of a chance (like from .1% to maybe .2%?) of there being an arc... but, again, the company says not to go over 48v. just don't know why...

[@stephenlincoln9709]

Hey Andy -ve horizontal bar work the -ve cable to the left of the two that has the corrugated conduit over it bolt looks loose or its an optical illusion

[@carson3210]

Andy, the switch is rated for a maximum of 48 VDC, and fully charged, your voltage will be around 51 VDC. Is there a risk of the switch flashing???

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

No, the switch is rated for a 48V system. The nominal voltage is 48V, so can be from 40V to almost 60V.

[@edwardvanhazendonk]

When you're done you can teach Victron to write correct German manuals 🧐 at least you are not far from a working cabinet! Keep on pushing en enjoy your progress!

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

So close! Yeah, the translated manuals are not that great either. I would have not expected this from a Dutch company...

[@BrazzaB1]

With the cables going under the 2nd bus bar, why don't you bolt the ring terminal upside down, so the cable more naturally goes under the bus bar?

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

People have suggested this before. I cannot torque the screws any more and would need to guess. Not too important bit it is also very fiddly to get the screw in upside down.

[@OffGridandOutdoors]

Andy, I'm no expert, but I don't think it's done... The batteries are still in a tub.

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

They will stay there until the new batteries will be installed. It will never be done 😁

[@itsfpv2561]

should raise the bus bar

[@HiltonT69]

It's "without further ado"...

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

Nah, it's without further to-do! 100%

[@daskasspatzle2396]

I just verified, the sticker says "gesuchert" on old and newer versions of the multi. If they improve the sticker, they could spend a capital P for "polarität" as well... Does your main switch not have a possibility to rotate the head in 90° angles? I have seen this on many other big switches. Enjoy switching on the first time ;-)

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

If I could rotate the handle it would not match the text any more...

[@francomajer9945]

Remember the "precharger"

[@Josh-b3c]

I have mine on the back side of my disconnect switch with a momentary push button and the resistor goes from one contact of the switch to the other side push button to connect pre-charges and then I flip the switch

[@alexanderezra1509]

@@Josh-b3c what size of precharge resistor do you use?

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

Do we need a pre-charge at all?

[@francomajer9945]

Except if Victron (or any other load) has it inside. Of course you don't turn Off/On often.... but the inrush corrente is really huge Why do you want to risc ? Your execution is preventing/thinking all it could happen. Thanks a lot for your shared experience

[@alexanderezra1509]

Hi, personally. I would prefer using them. I have seen mighty sparks in a 48v hybrid inverter just about when the battery breaker was switched on. In fact that unit had to be returned. From what I have learned, the longer the inverter has been switched off or in storage, the bigger the spark. The input capacitors will have no charge at those times and will act as a short. When.the unit is switched on, the batteries send a high inrush current, hence the spark. I have experienced a BMS shut down when a battery breaker was switched on and the last case was with AGM's. Sometimes the sparks eat out at the battery terminals too. Better safe than sorry. Check out this video: kzbin.info/www/bejne/pHquZ5udoZiEkNk

[@bastian433]

Who did also have the google assistant respond with the time ? :P I never knew the head office of Victron is in the Netherlands (why would you otherwise include Dutch on a warning sticker is what gave it away)

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

I stopped wearing a watch years ago. Also it set the right mood for the video 😂

[@jamess1787]

Drip loops would you all the slack you need to move the rack for "servicing" or whatever you need to. So sad, but understandable.

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

It would be far too heavy to move once the batteries are installed. The space now is large enough to keep it clean and reach for cable installation etc.

[@videostar555]

why not make a 45 bend so the cables are not that tight?

[@raymont6191]

Don’t forget to (add a)pre charge for the inverters!

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

Do we need that at all?

[@raymont6191]

@@OffGridGarageAustralia yes at least one time but you solved it nicely in yesterday’s video

[@jamiesharpe1532]

Why not raise the stepoffs? To match the middle height of the 2 rows? Or secondly 2 layers of plastic or stepped

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

I would waste all the space underneath. Also, still no flexibility when moving the cables around a bit...

[@jdw1248]

Please make switches on the negative because of sparks. Same like when you bridge Cars.

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

What? No...

[@jdw1248]

@@OffGridGarageAustralia Damit meine ich natürlich nur deinen Batterieschalter. Siehe auch Wikipedia „Der Batterieschalter wird in der Regel als einpoliger Schließer in die Minus-Rückleitung zwischen Masse und Minuspol der Batterie geschaltet.“ Bei mir gab es ein Funkengeräusch als ich meine Schalter über den Pluspol laufen ließ, hab die dann auf Minus umgeklemmt und alles ist ruhig seitdem wenn ich mal Wartung mache und wieder einschalte. Habe mir nur Gedanken gemacht wegen dem Lauten Geräusch beim einschalten und geschlussfolgert das das BMS über Minus abgeklemmt ist mit den dicken Kabeln und wenn ich was am Auto mache auch immer erst Minus abgeklemmt wird und Minus als letztes angeschlossen werden muss. Kannst mir aber gerne erklären warum es unbedingt der Pluspol sein muss der geschaltet werden sollte bin kein Elektriker :). Gruß Jens

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

@@jdw1248 Danke Dir. Es sollte keinen Unterschied machen ob der Schalter im Plus oder Minus Kreislauf eingebunden ist, der Strom, den er trennen/schliessen muss ist der gleiche. Wohl aber hat der Schalter einen beschrifteten Input und Output neben den Kontakten. Es koennte etwas damit zu tun haben wie die Funkenloeschung im Schalter bewerkstelligt ist. Ich habs jetzt zweimal bei mir probiert und den Schalter langsam gedreht, konnte aber kein Geraeusch feststellen.