"That class bullshit" - Paul Kimmage shares thoughts on divisive Neil Francis article

"If you read this from the start, you'd check the by-line immediately to make sure it wasn't written by Ross O'Carroll-Kelly"
Taking exception with the tone of an article written by the Sunday Independent's Neil Francis, the Sunday Independent's own Paul Kimmage shared his disdain on the Sunday Paper Review.
Although impressed in places, the apparent necessity with which rugby's success in Ireland must be measured against soccer's failure didn't endear itself to Paul.

[@tomthumb3500]

Got to love Paul.

[@jeffjefferson3364]

I think you could say that about the schools culture but your local clubs will be happy to have anyone and ecstatic if you commit and devote time to the club.

[@evanodonnell9818]

The class thing in rugby is mainly in Dublin. In Limerick it is a working class sport.

[@glapots]

Not really. A lot of fee paying schools down there

[@heyhey5712]

Rugby in Dublin was the reserve of the D4 elite, but in the past 10 years it's been hijacked by the Finglass / soccer louts to the dismay of the D4 crowd.

[@ShySports505]

@@glapots Villiers and Glenstal are the only fee paying schools in Limerick that I'm aware of and Villiers for sure have nothing to show for it in terms of cup rugby. Glenstal have improved a lot of over recent years but they wouldn't be dominating non-fee paying schools at all.

[@heyhey5712]

@EIRE LAND I knew that wouldn't go down well in Finglass.

[@heyhey5712]

@EIRE LAND I'd say spelling isn't a priority in Finglass.

[@Cybernetic800]

Bang on about the snobs

[@johnharpur3010]

Kimmage bang on here....

[@paddypenman2682]

If skinny lattes are your thing maybe

[@garethkavanagh3090]

Love rugby and I don't really watch the national soccer team but it's a smaller pool of international rugby teams, so to compare the two is impossible

[@brody5211]

Gareth Kavanagh do you follow an English football team ?

[@garethkavanagh3090]

@@brody5211 yeah but we are talking about international level so how does it matter

[@strawberrykicker2]

You kinda can if u want though

[@brody5211]

Whatever people think of Paul his research and passion are immense . Keep it up Paul . By the way Gary nice of you to finally get over your dislike for our national team .

[@typhoontim125]

Bit disappointed in Gary O'Toole here.. Especially not liking the Irish soccer team in the 90's..what's that about? Sounded a bit juvenile & small minded (& snobby?)

[@karlosdeevs]

@@typhoontim125 Dunno but i've got massive respect for both sets, for what the soccer guys acheived in the late 80s to mid-90s along with the bits & bobs b-fore and after. As well as for the rugby crowd between 1998 and now- both richly earned their time in the limelight & there's rlly no comparing the two.

[@royroyston8480]

I think he's a failed sportsman with a chip on his shoulder.

[@glapots]

Well done Paul

[@jonathanmunroe3597]

Bang on. Some of the Leinster talk on off the ball is mental lads. Remember the time they ranted about a draft system from Leinster schools??!

[@johnjohansson6277]

Jonathan Munroe If you don’t like rugby don’t listen to it. The majority of the world’s sports media is engross education in soccer so go enjoy that instead of moaning about the fact something you don’t like gets airtime.

[@paulmallon9292]

Kimmage does have a chip on his shoulder and is a loud mouth in many respects but his core point was totally valid. The piece was a classless, classist hit piece, on a group of individuals he knows nothing about. Also, when rugby has been accused of having that attitude in the past it showed a baffling lack of self awareness to write such a piece.

[@Damian-qu2fg]

agree!

[@georgesweeney4171]

100percent paul

[@DubSun33]

Ridiculous to say he has a chip on his shoulder! Explain yourself.

[@paulmallon9292]

@@DubSun33 I like Kimmage. I was more or less playing devil's advocate for the people here who say that he does. But he has been critical of rugby in the past and certain other sports. Golf seems to be his main love. The point is even of he does have a chip or not it doesn't change the fact that when he speaks on an issue it's usually rooted in sense.

[@mjomalley]

spending time worrying about snobbery is a total waste of time

[@dairet1945]

There is always someone in Ireland waiting to take a pop at the rugby fraternity that’s why articles like Ross OCarroll Kelly are popular. However when you get a piece by a provocateur like Francis and fire some shots back it’s a scandal. Football has Plenty of its own problems including in Ireland it’s own class divide however it seems fewer journalists are willing to point it out.

[@pjmcguire3670]

The 8 team non-qualification World Cup will never be adulated in the same regard as the Football World Cup or as it’s better known “The World Cup”. Georgia who are not good enough to compete in the 6 Nations still get an automatic berth to the Rugby World Cup. It’s a minority sport with no depth. The Irish Rugby team don’t have to qualify for the World Cup and England, Scotland, Wales, New Zealand, Australia and South Africa are the only teams who can win it. Argentina can barely support one professional Rugby Union club. The Argentinians don’t know who Jaguares are, they only know of the famous players past and present of River Plate and Boca Juniors. The Irish National Football Team had to play 10 World Cup qualifiers to finish 2nd which only got them a playoff where they eventually lost. Football is the World’s most played and popular sport. There’s no free hand outs. Even the Georgian National Football team will have earned their spot in Euro 2020 if they get there. They played 6 UEFA Nations League D group games and topped their group to qualify for the Euro 2020 League D Playoffs. If they win two more games they’ll be at Euro 2020 and would have earned it by playing 8 hard fought competitive fixtures.

[@samuelcashman5031]

What a clueless statement. Every team in the rugby world cup has to qualify for the tournament. Its just that the world cup also doubles up as the first qualification round for the next world cup. Its a great system as it weeds out a lot of meaningless matches for the top teams in the world.

[@pjmcguire3670]

Samuel Cashman Exactly it’s a system that gives free handouts to the so called “big countries” because as I was alluding to in my overall point there is no depth in the sport. You have the 8 professional teams in Ireland, England, Wales, Scotland, France, New Zealand, South Africa and Australia. You then got the 4 semi-pro-ish teams in Italy, Argentina, Japan and Samoa, who are good enough to pull off a one-off fluke. The rest of the teams are absolute duds and are essentially amateur nations or countries where the sport is growing like the USA. That’s the reason they allow the top 12 teams in the 4 groups of the Rugby World Cup to qualify for the next Rugby World Cup because that’s the limited quality available in the whole sport. That’s hardly a positive model for other sports to imitate. Maybe for sports like hockey or Bowls but not Football. In Football there is so many Top international sides that the 2018 World Cup Finalists Croatia had to qualify for the tournament via a two-legged playoff against Greece. They could only finish 2nd in their qualifying group after 10 competitive qualifiers. Chile, the Champions of the last 2 Copa America’s we’re unable to qualify for the 2018 World Cup. No automatic berth for them or 4 times World Cup Champions Italy who lost out in the playoffs.

[@pjmcguire3670]

The Greek Freak McCarthy is back so it’s time to party like it’s 2002!

[@pjmcguire3670]

The Greek Freak I can’t even blame McCarthy for trying to recruit English born players because he has only been given a 2 year contract by the FAI. He has 8 Euro qualifiers to get us to Euro 2020 and potentially 2 playoff games failing that. His reign will be judged a success if Ireland qualify to Euro 2020 and a failure if we don’t. I can’t blame him for having a short term view so getting the best players possible is in his best interests. Stephen Kenny will be the man to introduce the next generation of Irish players. His comments should excite everyone. He’s called up a squad full of the best young players from the League of Ireland for the U21s this February. Kenny is a long-term appointment and he shouldn’t be ceiticised for missing out on the next World Cup. Improving the style of play and introducing young Irish players should his first 2 priorities. Qualifying for Euro 2024 and World Cup 2026 should be the two tournaments he’s expected to qualify for. As I said above it’s harder for the football team to qualify for World Cups. The Rugby team doesn’t have to!

[@pjmcguire3670]

The Greek Freak it is a long time but I don’t think we’re in the top 13 teams in Europe and there is 13 qualifying spots for European teams at the World Cup. With the current squad it is an unreasonable expectation for them to 100% qualify for the 2022 World Cup. Honestly I thought we overachieved getting to the World Cup Playoffs against Denmark. On paper both Austria and Wales were stronger than Ireland but we finished above them. I’m young as well, can barely remember 2002 but there is lots of exciting young players and I think when Stephen Kenny comes in there’s going to be huge positive changes. First time the FAI have taken a long-term view ever!

[@liamoshaughnessy5849]

Yes Neil 'two chips on his shouders' Francis

[@brianmcs]

2022: DR & JG not in ENG squad. In 1st team.

[@sparkyhughes131]

Cant avoid snobbery, the country is aspiring to it

[@normanno8514]

west ham fans dont stab anyone - thats a massive no no in east london

[@martinfarrelly5196]

Teaching a small amount of Leinster fans to say Heineken and stop talking Brown Thomas bags to home games.problem solved.

[@paddypenman2682]

The hunchback of Foxrock

[@stephengallagher2209]

'Mummy wouldn't approve' sounds a lot like an obvious joke that escaped the Kimmages, because they have such shoulder chips. It's a funny line. Paulie missing the joke makes it even funnier. What a scrubber.

[@ekenny251]

Stumbled upon this today - Rice and Grealish won't get near the English team according to Francis! thankfully we no longer have to listen to his rubbish

[@normanno8514]

was just about to type this

[@Fyodorist]

Can we get the North back and the Empire can take Dublin

[@Bigbaz86]

Drogheda area Irish internationals include Rob and Dave Kearney, shaggy. Not a snob amongst them.

[@strawberrykicker2]

As much as I agree with your point, I'm pretty sure the Kearney bros are

[@dowdallerno1]

@@strawberrykicker2 rob and Dave Kearney are from Cooley. It's not near Drogheda.

[@olivierkepo]

I don’t like Franno but he’s a much better writer than all the other journalists that constantly criticise him and his comments need to be taken with a pinch of salt. Kimmage is a great journalist but he’s driven by anger and bitterness and it’s unhealthy.

[@johnjohansson6277]

Gentleman’s game played by........

[@Irishpaine]

Kimmage and Garda McCabe belong in Irish Heaven.

[@smith5796]

Haha lol 😄😄

[@3storiesUp]

Gary .. I love you kid .. but "Neil at his peak" ? .. Any rugby supporter worth his salt realises that Francis is Donald Trump of Irish rugby journalism .. if you can call the tripe that the 'ruck inspector' offers up as journalism.

[@wewhofly]

Kimmage is the best sports writer.... writer..... I've ever read. I mean structurally, he drags you in to his topic and holds you. His pieces are like mini movies. All the textures, all the moods.... Yet, he talks a lot of rubbish too. Namely, he IS a sports writer. He Does know soccer. He does know sarcasm and irony too. And yet here he pretends not to know what Francis is alluding to when he alludes to "the boy, Rice". He's alluding to the very language traditional soccer managers used about their players. That's exactly how they identified their players. It was parent v child or teacher v pupil language. So Francis was smarter than Kimmage. Kimmage himself was left to attack the derogatory, belittling attitude soccer managers themselves used/use. But he blamed Francis for it. Francis 1, Kimmage Nil

[@im.tellingyou]

The conclusion is that Neil Francis is a bit of a snob. So what? I'd say most people don't know who he is.

[@paulmallon9292]

PROOOOOOOOOCHTAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!

[@Bigbaz86]

FAI is a mess.

[@ProTantoQuid]

Neil Francis has a short memory. A few Ulster rugby players were in the papers a short time ago for less than respectful behavior. One of them has just contracted to London Irish for next year. Of course he was "innocent". Do you remember, Neil?

[@conormcgowan108]

Wilhelm Moggeridge they were found not guilty

[@johnjohansson6277]

They are inexcusable but, if you would like we could go through the footballers accused and convicted of rape and assault etc. and paint all soccer people in a bad light also.

[@oldoddjobs]

The papers lol

[@ProTantoQuid]

@@oldoddjobs I see E Jones is complaining that 7 of his team in Australia were "public" school educated and says it makes them soft. 8 of the Irish starting 15 against the ABs were "private" schoolers - Mainly Blackrock and St Michael's. No doubt that was why they were thrashed by the ABs.

[@sparkyhughes131]

Coleman donegal humility

[@realollywood]

That article didn’t age well lol

[@terrydelahunt842]

Haha was gonna say the same thing! Bigotry generally doesn't! It aged better than frannos career in journalism mind you😂

[@Kevin_Ireland]

Rag of a paper

[@dowdallerno1]

The reality is, these papers are only read, by a tiny clique of people.

[@strawberrykicker2]

Neil Francis is a tool but he has a point, Kimmage is a tool but he has (slightly less of) a point

[@hughobrien4964]

Relax Paul

[@TheMrbc74]

rugby snobbery no different in ireland it seems than it is in england

[@ciaranmccormack704]

The one thing I'd say is that Ireland produces much better rugby players than soccer (football) ones...

[@ciaranmccormack704]

@CELTIC WARRIOR nearly all the public schools have a soccer team.

[@glapots]

O'Toole is also from that Ross O'Carroll stable

[@shane-irish]

Yawn

[@Finderskeepers.]

Its all click bait, that's the way the media works these days, the more drama , the more sales.

[@johnjohansson6277]

John Garvey DiD yOu WaTcH tHe NeWs?

[@mushy97kiid]

Rugby will never be irelands sport is too elitist only 2/3 players on the Irish team have went to public schools. At least with soccer any boy could play for Ireland not the same for rugby you have to be born into the right family with money to send you to private school

[@mushy97kiid]

Jay M hahah your missing my point I'm not trying to attack rugby was just giving my opinion on neil Francis trying to say rugby is number one sport. will never be viewed as the number one sport in Ireland as it's not very inclusive for the average child compare it to gaa or soccer where it doesn't matter where you go to school if your good enough you can get to the top of your sport. Clearly matters if you go to private school or not if you want to play at highest level( I know they're exceptions but still very high % of rugby players go to fee paying school!)

[@Sokky91]

liam powell is it private schools fault that a majority of public schools don’t have as much an onus on rugby if they have it at all? Rugby schools aren’t just private either, Pres Bray for example, and they had a number of internationals throughout the year... Private schools tend to have better facilities so in an age of professional sport, it’s hard for public schools to keep up. I think it’s a shame not more parents bring their kids to the local rugby club form an early age like they do football

[@mushy97kiid]

S OK as I said above I acknowledge there is exceptions but 80-90% of Irish rugby players are from private schools so what I'm saying is not wrong you clearly have an advantage if you come from a privelaged background. soccer will always be more popular do to the lack of perceived class snobbery. Anyway GAA will always be number one sport in Ireland no matter what a club in every parish such large participation rates I heard that there are more GAA clubs in cork then there are rugby clubs in Ireland! Makes the Irish rugby teams achievement even greater in that perspective

[@evanodonnell9818]

Come to Limerick and you'll find it's a working class sport. Over time and especially with the sucess of the Irish team it can become a sport for all classes across the country

[@mushy97kiid]

Evan O'Donnell come to any other county pal and you'll see the only top players are from private school just proves my main point yes there are small exceptions.. tell me another county where the public schools are doing better than private schools!!

[@stephendaedalus6192]

Kimmage's main characteristic is his inferiority complex.

[@niallsheehan474]

Having just read Frano's article I find him dead right and Kimmage full of fudge. If Declan Rice does not want to declare for Ireland then fine , lets stop this national humiliation of begging non committed multi millionaires to play for us in their valuable spare time and move on to more productive pursuits. No doubt Frano has strong and at times bizarre opinions but he is a much better read than most of the other "sports writers" especially the sanctimonious Kimmage .

[@glantanem]

Kimmage with a very heavy chip on his shoulder. Sad sad man.

[@3storiesUp]

He does ... must have been stuck out on the wing as a kid in order to cause as little wreck as possible ..

[@gerry5955]

Poor Kimmage a failed cyclist and a failed journalist who exhibits a sense of jealously and envy of an other journalist . Makes him look bad. Soccer players are judged by the British counterparts and their vast wealth for participating in a Intrinsically dishonest game.