OG Tekken is insane.

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Intro/Outro by SKONK - / @bigskonk
Intro/Outro track by KEIFERGR33N - / @keifergr33n
Edited by: / @averyxfgc
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I'm PhiDX, I play Tekken professionally for @ParagonFGC and ArcadeShock.
10% off at ArcadeShock.com: PHIDXGAMES123
I peaked Diamond 1 in League of Legends and focus on improvement philosophies for the casual player looking to get better!

[@SleepmodeFGC]

It’s not super common, but a frequent concern that often gets brought up with Tekken 5DR (or really even Tekken Tag 2, another Tekken with notably strong movement) is that if movement is as strong as it is here, then it presents a balancing/gameplay pacing concern because it becomes so much harder to push offence on your opponent. I really appreciate that you took the time to do this analysis, because it showcases the best argument against that concern: powerful movement doesn’t prevent you from conducting offence in Tekken, it *turns movement itself into offence*

[@SleepmodeFGC]

anyway can we get a re-release of T5DR Online or what

[@PhiDX]

Yes! Instead of pokes and strings being primary offense, it's movement and pokes. Instead of strictly defensive movement, you get offensive movement. Instead of forced guesses, you can control when you have to guess and when you don't.

[@KulaGGin]

_"is that if movement is as strong as it is here, then it presents a balancing/gameplay pacing concern because it becomes so much harder to push offence on your opponent"_ That's not really a balancing concern. That's how it should be. The pressure should be on the attacker when the defender is good at defending. It's only a concern for people who are bad at Tekken and want to mash and do forced mixups after +5 on hit lows and +6~+8 on block mids/highs where the opponent can't even do defensive movement to avoid the follow ups.

[@gustavogoesgomes1863]

what really annoyed me on t7 (I began playing tekken last year) and still do to this day is how INSANELY fast recovery on whiff is on this game. I mean, even on whiff it's very hard to punish orbitals, for example (unless you step it). a lot of times I bait moves with movement/shimmy and I either get hit by a string follow up, or I can't punish in time because most moves recovers ultra fast on whiff. and what makes me even angrier is that it isn't even consistent. this is true for some of the characters and moves, but not all. for example, the simple jab should be literally the safest option on the game, right? without follow up, it's always a high, not much reach, does little damage. and it is true for most characters. unless you are kazuya. kazuya's jab feels like it takes considerably longer to recover on whiff, but the worst part, it extends his hurtbox A LOT. I have been launched and launched kazuyas from kilometers away by hitting the air near his fist. the annoying part isn't even the fact that the game encourages inconsequential mashing on lower levels of play, it's the fact that it is super inconsistent. there isn't a clear pattern, and there are characters that feel "privileged" for no reason

[@jii-el]

i believe this is the exact reason tekken 8 is the way it is. they wanted to dramatically reduce this mindset.

[@AntanovOCEFGC]

Phi this vid is so FUCKING COOL and this is what i want from high level player creators more, actual analysis of high level play. Ive SEEN match replays, i play them myself, but it aint everyday i get a treat like this. I don't play Tekken, i tried, wasnt for me, but I live for this shit. I hope we get more intelligent analysis like this, shit like this is how you get players to actually understand and think about how these games work, rather then just throwing emotional opinions out as fact. Also your energy here is great, I love how much you love this shit.

[@PhiDX]

Thank you! I will try

[@sapphirus217]

@@PhiDXi share is same opinion, your content is gold i love your videos , and you are even so good at the game analysis (too bad you play a charachter that bored me to watch) but you are so fired i love your channel

[@molamola5260]

He made everything up dude. You can’t all of that stuff in 2 seconds going back and forth. He is talking too much bullshit at 6:20

[@GoronsCave]

​@molamola5260 why would you embarrass yourself like this by saying you know nothing but thinking you do ahahaha

[@RunningShovel]

Same, I'm a casual Tekken player, and while I'll never play at this level it's really cool to have someone who does lay out all the stuff that's going on.

[@vivitarax]

I hope we get this as a series, reviewing legendary VODs of old T5DR/T6/Tag 2. Could use some guests too 👀

[@happyclairofan]

the concept of ranges = attacks is so sick, super important in melee as well

[@Landonio]

DR is the best Tekken ever made. I'd kill for another Tekken game like that. Or even a 4K remaster of it.

[@uglyhorseteethbritsht]

Nah its Tekken 7, gameplay wise, graphics wise, and statistically.

[@Landonio]

@@uglyhorseteethbritsht Of course a new game in a series is going to have better graphics than one that came out over a decade prior. No shit. I'm talking about the core gameplay. DR's is without a doubt the best in the series. Silky smooth movement, no frills, pure Tekken. Skillful. No Tekken game with dumb shit like Rage (Arts), Rage Drives, nerfed movement, wonky balance, fireballs and weapons, etc. is going to be in the running for "best gameplay". You're on crack if you genuinely believe that. And this is coming from someone that thinks Tekken 7 is arguably the best fighting game of the past 7-8 years. But that's mostly because most modern fighters are trash. Compared to masterpieces like DR, T3, SoulCal 2, it's mid.

[@ADukesJustice]

Tag 1 though

[@evan6711]

@@uglyhorseteethbritsht I cannot even phathom how you could ever see tekken 7 as a superior game gameplay wise.

[@watcherman222]

Lol, my sidesteps actually worked when I played T5DR at a local arcade months ago. A shame the buttons were poorly maintained, though.

[@fhunnyjoker]

Tekken is actually just the coolest thing ever cause of stuff like this, the amount of little things that go into all of this is insane

[@SaltedMallows]

You really get it, and I think this is an important video for people to see to understand what older Tekken had that's missing in the formula. I don't want gimmicks to be the answer for the Stale-ification of T7, but more thoughtfulness.

[@klumzing]

yeah, i've always wanted tekken to return to a more pure form like DR.

[@philgamer9499]

@@klumzing then it would be just tekken 5 DR 2024

[@klumzing]

@@philgamer9499 true, but idk how i feel about all this flashy stuff and jin doing backflips and slides and endless combos etc. they can do smth different but i just feel like it's gone too crazy / silly for my liking.

[@metalsadman]

@@klumzing it's for new players, game isn't gonna survive just keeping the soon to be grandad playerbase.

[@klumzing]

​@@metalsadman fair enough, well it's good to see them changing it up at least, even if i don't like some of the changes.

[@TheProswagonist]

Forward dashing is fun until you do it into an Akuma d3 clean hit range.

[@PhiDX]

traumatic

[@G-R-IE-IE-D]

Supreme example 😂

[@xRhychux]

Knee was fucking cracked

[@qweqweqwadcsc]

He still is

[@nothing1601]

was?

[@TheDeadlyTikka]

omg that side step into jet upper was beautiful. I miss this style of Tekken so much

[@Rv3Ariez]

I think it's worth noting how much actual game play is happening. No cut scenes or over drawn cinematic. I fucking miss DR so much

[@sayedomairsiam6344]

This what u call a content and that is what u call a fighting game and lords of fighting game. They doin more math, psychologicaly and hypothesis than a math teacher. W content keep it up.

[@technothug8974]

Genuinly infuriating that we have so many people fighting against a competitive in-depth experience. I am afraid that we will have the same experience with T8 as we do with sf6 right now. A great casual experience that receives tons of praise making the game seem great on a surface level, but then a whole bunch of problems at the higher levels and an overall garbage ranked/competative experience.

[@G-R-IE-IE-D]

Exactly, and even the casuals are saying it’s boring now lol it’s a lose lose

[@Shodan130]

Just don’t buy the game, honestly if you want things to change you gotta vote with your wallets,

[@philgamer9499]

fuck the competitive scene

[@KulaGGin]

@@Shodan130 _"Just don’t buy the game, honestly if you want things to change you gotta vote with your wallets"_ The real world doesn't work like that. It didn't even work when capitalists poisoned atmosphere with lead by adding lead to gasoline and paint at the start of 20th century. Look it up, it's a real story. So, even letting people know that lead is bad and telling them not to buy gas with it didn't help. You know what helped? Letting the government(the people who can do something about it: change the laws) know and 2 decades of fights in courts and then a law that banned lead. Same can be done here: letting "the government"(the people who can do something about it: change the laws of the game) know again and again and again, and fighting for the changes. "voting" with your wallet never works. You can look up stories about how seat belts became mandatory and if voting with your wallet had anything to do with it, or how forcing car manufacturers making cars, so that blueprints and spare parts are available to 3rd party repair shops, so the car manufacturer doesn't have a monopoly on repairing their own cars. You know what had a real effect? Regulations, laws. Not voting with your wallet.

[@elb0w]

​@@Shodan130using your wallet to vote for less of what you like, at lower quality because less funding and company trust

[@TKNHOUSE]

I loved this game! My favorite Tekken by far. I still remember me, my roommate, and Anakin holding 3 of the Top 5 positions on the online leaderboards for a loooong time. Great times!

[@sadetwizelve]

I remember ziggyfeld was no.1 online with marduk.

[@TKNHOUSE]

@@sadetwizelve yeah he came later. That boy used to come in there tryna tackle EVERYBODY! But he used to run when saw us 🤣 🤣🤣 My profiles were M.E.-R3D_ATL, Trash of Atlanta, Bill Cosby, and fswqertyii (something like that) lol

[@spiidey1]

I remember taking him to the final round despite me not knowing how to break throws, and T5DR's garbage netcode.@@sadetwizelve

[@Skkra]

@@sadetwizelve Holy crap, you just blew my mind haha. Havent thought of that name in ages. I was always in the Top 100 back in DR, and I can still remember a lot of names. There was also Centerfold, who was actually legendary Tag player Slips if I remember correctly.

[@sadetwizelve]

@@Skkra I also remember MadDogJin...Probably the best hwoarang player ever.

[@lol69203]

These dudes are cracked to this day. Neither of them are exactly old men but they are pushing their 40's. You'd think their reflexes would start taking a bigger hit than it has.The core tekken 7 systems have done more to harm their gameplay (however slightly) than age has.

[@Frvnklin]

Prime Knee is arguably the best player to ever do it! Like a freaking machine

[@SlickEvan]

This is the type of stuff that got me into Tekken. Good video, Phi.

[@NOMERCY12392]

The insane thing about this game and the high level players playing at that meta is that these players can adapt in the span of literally a few micro seconds. It's like playing chess at light speed. Many casual observers and even long time players cant appreciate that kind of insane hand eye coordination and quick thinking on the fly.

[@PhiDX]

Not just quick thinking either, but programmed instinct that goes even faster than thinking SO sick

[@NOMERCY12392]

@@PhiDX wow just WOW I cant imagine how fast their thinking and sense for the game is. Just almost beyond words.

[@EvertheWise]

Oh god this bring back old memories and the obstacles we needed to overcome to get just decent in this game. Only the OG will understand the stress in breaking 1+2 grabs. so freaking fast.

[@DBZAOTA482]

T5 is when they started slowing down the timing for throw breaks

[@casual.dojo.1]

This is frame by frame analysis, that's the very best and super fun. Awesome. Thank you.

[@InsanityPrevails]

Bro, seeing a character run up to you that quickly is just anxiety inducing 😂 Movement back then was scary to deal with, damn

[@Lexicon865]

Movement IS gatekeepy though. *And that's a good thing.* Fighting games imo need a balance of easy to pickup, hard to master mechanics and tricky to pick up, even trickier to master mechanics

[@qweqweqwadcsc]

Fighting games should be hard to pickup and hard to master

[@jspantonio8807]

@@qweqweqwadcscnah

[@qweqweqwadcsc]

scrub@@jspantonio8807

[@cosmicspider2]

Skillgating something as basic as moving is garbage.

[@kona7014]

​@@cosmicspider2 then make the movement techs easier? its not skillgating its just depth to the movement mechanics.

[@alexconnor5110]

Great video! You really explain these concepts super clearly, I feel like I've learned something.

[@tomaszwasko617]

What's also worth mentioning is Knee moving around and trying to mess Qudans' head up and bait hiswhiff using Bryan's taunt cancels.

[@AZYG4LYFE]

This ^^^ well spotted

[@blixini]

this may be the greatest analysis of high-level play i have ever seen. hands down.

[@ausreir]

There was a time when I watched a T7 match and I laughingly said the game looked 2D. This video explains exactly why in a very entertaining way. Thank you.

[@liu3chan]

It kinda needs to be. It's like 2.5D in a 3D environment since you have to look at your character from the side.

[@QriousIgloos]

I loved this video! And would love to see more detailed breakdowns in the future. I do want to provide some pushback however in terms of the narrative of this video. Mainly, in Tekken 7 we've gotten to see the meta revolution caused by Arslan and other Pakistani players. I can't say for certain as I only casually played DR, but from a post-arslan meta perspective, it seems to me that a lot of the gameplay between knee and qudans had some waste/excessiveness to it. For example, knee's approach to qudans hinged on reads that was carefully set up around a jab/movement mind game, but watching arslan (or ulsan) now for example, I think he would have been much more forceful and oppressive on qudans mental stack, forcing string and frame mixups on top of movement and adaptation. But maybe this is only possible because of the strength of characters in T7, not sure

[@sirhodor5655]

Top tier content as expected Phi, hope to see more :)

[@sadetwizelve]

I was around for the arcade era,a lot of you that started with 6 or ttt2 likely wouldn't have been able to handle it. You really had to be good back then and every game cost! You couldn't cheat with a lag switch or rage quit or choose who you wanted to play.

[@Tnargav]

True. Rage quite once, well you had a bad day. Do it more and no one will play with you or even let you in. Too bad we don't have that option online to just block users of appearing in your online queue.

[@chiko7547]

T5 was the most "Tekken" out of all the games. You definitly had the most freedom in all aspects of the game. Unfortunately when I played it years ago I was way too shit to appreciate that :D

[@apathae5430]

Being an old boomer that played in tournaments during T1 and T5DR it's awesome seeing you watch old Tekken and analyzing how different of a game it was than T7. I told my friend after playing the beta for T8 that the sidestepping reminded me more of T5DR.

[@jebuscrust9875]

it would be awesome to get more analysis of OG tekken, though that's probably hard to do without having been an OG hence why Speed's first video is so important

[@sourcesauce]

been putting out bangers lately mane. god bless.

[@KulaGGin]

From Peppegen 7 to Kekkuga 8 with overpowered launchers all over the place and +5 to +7 on hit lows and mids on block that frame trap into nh/ch launchers that also track and prevent movement. What a series.

[@hamdishadow1]

This is a different level I never see it like that

[@ali09gaming58]

You have discovered the beauty of movement

[@hamdishadow1]

@@ali09gaming58 yes and it need super human reflexes

[@GuntanksInSpace]

Extremely smart breakdown of this match. Admittedly I didn't understand this back then, but wow. Excellent video!

[@KulaGGin]

Yep, T7's problems are: Too good properties on many moves: Everything either ch or nh launches. And then also these nh/ch launchers(electrics, all magic4s, nina qcf1, etc) recover as they were pokes with low reward, like jabs and d/f+1s. Then there are power lows like Bryan's qcb3 that deal big damage and give big frame advantage on hit. And then most moves also track both sides, of course.

[@jm12322]

Great video, Phi. I hear people say "they nerfed movement" a lot, but there aren't a whole lot of analytical videos about the differences across games. I'm curious about how it was changed from 5>6>TTT2>T7, and what other system changes contributed to the feeling that movement got a lot worse.

[@perfectlap9379]

It's a lot of things honestly. I can't give an in depth explanation cus I'm bout to start work but I'd respond to this a bit later

[@KulaGGin]

They actually increased the tracking on moves themselves and didn't change the movement itself. That's how it changed, that's why in T5 Bryan stepped left DJ's b,f+2 and in T7 Bryan would get hit: in T5 DJ didn't rotate towards bryan and in T7 DJ rotates towards the opponent.

[@theddj]

its hard to quantify, and many times it can seem like the differences aren't noticeable (certain moves are evaded the same way across games). but you can really feel it in the leniency you are afforded. a lot of t7 moves can't be evaded with a small sidestep and you have to commit to a full sidestep/sidewalk.

[@Dizintegrator]

That "hypnosis confidence" search history made me LOL :D

[@-castradomis-1773]

Tekken 5 DR is probably my favorite Tekken. Watching Knee's Bryan, Quadans' Devil Jin, JDCR's Heihachi, and those old Tekken Zaibatsu combo music videos by Castel, the best times for me.

[@kincaedx]

Great breakdown, really helps explain the classic "Tekken 5DR was the last great tekken" that you hear from time to time.

[@kachucho872]

Thanks, Phi! I surely couldn't have read the same suubtitles on my own.

[@Mr440c]

19:40 In Tekken 7 it's impossible to ss anything after holding to your guts like that. Such hit stuns immobilize the player. Also later 19:54 an impossible step. F4 would track.

[@RationalMinded]

Excellent breakdown. Been praying at nights for T5DR on PSN but I think the good Lord is too busy perfecting his KBD.

[@mylinuxstruggle5495]

I've seen this fight when it originally happened. I saw Speedkidkcs breakdown and I've never understood the fight like this. I don't know what I was watching before this video.

[@genosupgrades]

“I’m glazing” took me out

[@Topbruv]

Sometimes I wish I was born 10 years earlier so I could've been active when DR was about. Need this game on steam

[@PaperTigerLive]

Please analyze Knee vs Qudans at Tokyo Tekken masters T7 where Knee picked Lili. You can also look at the run up to that moment. That would be sick!

[@metalsadman]

knee was abusing matchup there, nothing qudans can do when he's a dj loyalist.

[@PaperTigerLive]

@@metalsadman "nothing Qudans can do"

[@BilalKhan-ng3ex]

I'd love to see more of this type of content

[@progste]

Gate keeping is good, I have seen too many games and franchises ruined because they opened the gates.

[@j.d.prophecy43]

I pray Murray and Harada don't see this shit. They're probably wondering what else to take out the game

[@EFaams]

Man I miss late night T5 battles with my cousins on the weekends

[@liquidsnake9226]

PHI D X The outro is hard

[@fortisch]

We need a tekken collection, with all previous tekkens for pc with online. Atleast tekken 4 and 5dr. So we can have some different tekken for a change

[@luffylength]

"Hypnosis confidence" 13:29 😂

[@PhiDX]

Hey man whatever it takes LOL

[@VoicesofHonour]

a beginner here: I don't mind movement to be a key factor in this game. I even like that concept. The only "problem" I have is things like the korean backdash or any animation cancellation for that matter. Not the resulting options it gives the player, but the input requirement and the training. To me it feels like you want to get good at something like bowling and the developers of the bowling ball put the 3 holes in the ball (normal back dash) but left in a 4th hole by accident which would allow you to dual wield the bowling ball but you have to stand in an unnatural and hold the ball in a weird position. I don't critize the player who learned the technique and got to the point of executing strike after strike, but I do find it weird that the developer would not consider the dual wielding of the bowling ball a viable strategy and design the bowling ball around that strategy. but, oh well. I still enjoy the game (Tekken, not bowling) at my own rank. Maybe it is that it fascinates me that they leave all these animation cancellations in and made it a feature instead of a bug. I can even understand if you would say that Tekken got its success because of it. That the extended learning curve to get better at the game that comes with it, is what keeps the game interesting for so many different players :)

[@VoicesofHonour]

started out as a "rant", ended up with acceptance, but after I wrote the whole fucking essay, I didn't want to delete it. And since it is not the chat of Aris, I don't think I risk banishment :)

[@PhiDX]

Part of the behavior you see is emergent from the natural rhythm that the KBD imposes on the gameplay. It's quite beautiful at a high level how it all plays out

[@pvshka]

@@VoicesofHonour the concept of fighting game combos started off as frame-cancel glitches in SF2. But yeah, I hate it as well when unintuitive inputs result in an illogical outcome. That's why Tekken is my favorite fighting game though, it has the least of that. All the other fighting games are riddled with that plague even more.

[@EzioZ]

Yessir im from the ol g era, can def feel diff when playing online lol some newer ppl dont know how to fight if they cant get a juggle.

[@Sebastian-sz6wy]

Super cool brake down PhiDX, awesome vid

[@dariuszkopec2567]

The best tekken requires most skill . Movement is everything in this game.

[@masterresonax6642]

All the tekken games been broken after 5, 5 was the best and truly skilled tekken fighter

[@wolfgangank8851]

Awesome video, such an interesting analysis

[@BCannonThaMc]

I MISS REAL TEKKEN LONG LIVE T3 Tag1 & T5 honorable mention Tekken 2 i love you

[@zackfair1868]

jang iksu tekken tag 1 is the og footage battle of tekken

[@ScorchedEclipse]

i think it was around when noctis was introduced that i remembered kinda disliking the direction of t7. stuff like noctis ff1+2, king ff+1 and asuka ff+3 were all these big mids that tracked and were safe on block just kinda made it scary to approach. i think asuka's ff+3 was buffed around that time too if i'm not mistaken D:

[@PhiDX]

Josie ff4, Fahk jet kick, Zafina 1+2, kuni SET 2....

[@ScorchedEclipse]

@@PhiDX ah josie ff4, i remember that being -8 and Ling could b+1 punish. if only i could find them LMAO hold on, zaf 1+2 on its own is safe??? o-o

[@PhiDX]

@ScorchedEclipse nah, but the punish mix makes it risky to attempt to punish

[@vixi6293]

there is just so much jailing bullshit in modern Tekken. The technicality is essentially lost.

[@EulaLawrence-tj1ef]

Tekken 5 Fans: TTT2 combo damage is dumb, Tekken 5 combos without wall:

[@Kuukeksi]

With the context of Tekken 8 it really does make a lot of sense from Bandai Namco PoV on how they made being active in the game more rewarding. No offence to either of the players here but being a spectator of that Knee vs kkokkoma would be much less hype than say AK vs Farzeen from Combo Breaker 2024. That set was insane.

[@G-R-IE-IE-D]

They’re calling us gatekeepers because we want our game to remain the way it’s been to open it for people that will be gone in less than a year 🤷‍♂️

[@WickdUser]

This is what I’ve been pointing out. They’re going to make it noob friendly but those noob will mostly likely leave the game in less than a year.

[@dat1faclesdude]

the problem is those people are also consumers and they ll pay for the game and they are much much larger in number than you are

[@KulaGGin]

_"They’re going to make it noob friendly but those noob will mostly likely leave the game in less than a year"_ These changes don't matter to noobs. Noobs mashed in T3, they mashed in T5, now they mash in T7 and will mash in T8. These changes only matter to seasoned players. Noobs(and scrubs) aren't able to execute any of the techniques shown in the T5 video. It's totally possible and doable to make a T5-like game that would be very friendly to noobs and to people like Knee and Qudans, because T5 did just that. I played T3 against friends at a friend's house back when it came out, and then T5 myself vs CPU for around 100 hours, around 12 years ago. Both, T3 and T5 were very fun for me to play. I was extremely bad at the game: I couldn't even just backdash(not even korean backdash cancels), I couldn't break throws. But I had lots of fun mashing strings and stances on Hwoarang vs CPU in T5. These things PhidX showed and talked about in the video didn't exist for me in T5, and I couldn't even imagine them. The things PhidX talked about only start to matter at around intermediate level when you have at least a few hundreds of hours in the game and you want to start using movement to your advantage.

[@G-R-IE-IE-D]

@@dat1faclesdude nobody’s arguing that we’re well aware. The point is they can update the new installation to where casuals will still buy it without completely disregarding the people that actually play the game. We know why they do it. It’s always about money it’s not confusing. It’s just not right.

[@PyroInferno110]

The issue was that there was no tutorial like literally lol

[@wantu7816]

Sometimes, I hate the argument about movement and how much they nerfed it in tekken 8. I think it's a clever Idea for movement to be different among characters based on their weight that it actually makes sense. I just hope some other light characters like Kazuya get their movement buffed.

[@twelve1844]

Sidestep is buffed on Tekken 8 to almost TTT1 levels. BB input has been buffed to almost have the same speed as KBD but not too much to replace it completely

[@requiem418]

kazuya is not light

[@wantu7816]

@@twelve1844 but I think they should buff the backdash of some other characters more for space control.

[@NYG5]

If Kazuya is going to have no pokes, no throws, no panic moves, no range, slow moves, and option select SSL to wipeout his key moves; then he should have the best sidestep and backdash of all the male characters, end of story. I'm totally fine if he has about three moves but then has movement to give you all your options.

[@NicoMambino]

@@NYG5yes , yes, and yes! To be bad I don’t think Mishimastar would dare allow it. Smh devs

[@Noum77]

This is why TTT2 is still my fav game: it better movements like T5 but more a modern game

[@qweqweqwadcsc]

Tag 2 is basically for people that like the absurdities of Tekken and also the positives of classic Tekken

[@BCannonThaMc]

T5DR Online heads... who remembers Ziggyfield? lmaoo

[@madara792]

If you like vids like this, check out Aris breakdown of some Tekken Tag 1 matches and Tekken 4 matches. Super fascinating stuff before he went full stoner lol

[@chidori7234]

Movement is cool, in any fighting game. Don't you ever call it gatekeeping.

[@MegaKhalid121]

This is the equivalent of a chess match

[@yadeemkool5895]

Interested if you still think tekken 8 has this better movement you where hoping for. I think for me it does but I've come in and out of tekken but never really played ranked before so probably my opinion on the previous games doesn't hold much value.

[@PhiDX]

Yeah it does. This game is so hard lol

[@hiddentactics8831]

It’s interesting that you stated that realignment is better in 8. I was playing law and in my attempts to dash forward and realign with the opponent I seemed to have problems but maybe it’s a law thing. In any case the movement in 8 is promising

[@Venoch_]

Subbed for this kind of content!

[@TheWizardofMNT]

You should be able to move just as freely as you can irl. This skill is one of the main things that sets tekken apart from the others. They keep restricting it to help newer folks keep up. I'm not saying new players shouldn't be able to move just as freely, but to be able to move this freely is a skill, which of course requires you to put in the work to attain it. The skill ceiling can seem so high that at times, it can almost seem limitless, which i feel is a beautiful thing. On the other side of that though is people who feel they may never reach that level even if they tried. Which is understandable, but are they truly willing to try? There's a reason certain players are the best. They didn't complain that something was too difficult. They simply put in the work to get where they are.

[@LostCommunication1]

Let me tell you a that to this day I still play Tekken 5 DR and TTT1-- those two games are some of the best training tools to be great at fighting games the same way as third strike and soul caliber 2 can.

[@Shodan130]

I fucked with it till you said 3rd strike, 3s players are fucking garbage and have no fundamentals

[@lancergt1000]

But with DR tier movement, wouldnt moves have to be low commitment in order to be good because the risk of getting stepped is so high?

[@Noxeramas]

coming from T8 a few months in, it did not deliver on any movement promises

[@winged11]

I need to learn tekken movement After this

[@fobo3361]

Man wtf, i remember getting flamed for saying Tekken 8 should have shorter combo's so its nicer for beginners (less time practicing hard ass combo's) and more time actually fighting, less time waiting to be let outta the air for your turn to play cuz i regularly found myself rolling my eyes after getting launched not cuz im losing but because i know i got a 30 second unskippable ad before i can do anything and everyones reasoning was - Tekken's always had long combo's (wouldn't be tekken without it type deal) - And im just bad and dont wanna get punished for making mistakes (pretty much Tekken's just too hardcore, go play something else) But look at how fast these interactions are in OG Tekken, ive never seen OG Tekken so i didn't used it in my argument but these combo's are wayyyy nicer from a viewing perspective and seem way more fun to play, no 250lb Japanese man flying through the air for 60 seconds straight I did have a few people make good arguments for the fun and creativity side of coming up with combo's so my opinion did shift a bit in favor of longer combo's (emphasis on a bit lmao) but still OG tekken combo length aswell as movement and this like thousand micro decision a second gameplay seems wayyy more fun, and i really hope Tekken 8 at the very least strives for something on this level its so good i almost wanna try tekken 5 now after watching this (i think its 5, dont at me 😂)

[@PhiDX]

You should def try T5DR! The ultra hard bot is actually useful for developing movement and defense

[@HajinKazama]

" I got a 30 seconds unskippable ad before I can do anything " is such a good way to put it. 🤣 You could uno reverse card the creativity argument by saying that people seeking that kind of things should play BTA games like Devil May Cry where it's ok if you only play by yourself for 30 sec. You don't force other people to watch you play at least like in fighting games.

[@Lexicon865]

Whoever told you Tekken's always had long combos are absolutely bluffing and has never played Tekken games prior to 6, even casually. Like 6 onwards sure combos are lengthier but like for older games you'd even be lucky if you got a 10 move combo. Tekken has always had short combos and big damage, especially in T5DR

[@fobo3361]

​@@Lexicon865 Yea i feel silly for falling into that bluff and not looking for myself, especially given i got my taste for shorter combo's from a veteran in tekken who was talking about what he wanted in T8, and thats when i realized how much cooler the game would be if it was how he describes (just so happens he was describing OG tekken lmao) Is there still any competitive scene/community playing these older titles? Or is it all just tekken 7 these days until 8 comes out

[@Lexicon865]

@@fobo3361 T5DR and Tag 1 I feel would still have *some* competitive scene, albeit it's obviously extremely niche now. Not sure abt T6 or Tag 2, and I doubt the other games would have em

[@theddj]

people want to play their mind games with attacks and not movement since its more intuitive. fighting with your attacks makes sense to players, fighting with movement does not. If tekken 8 can do a good job of helping players feel confident about moving, then they will really be on to something. Tekken movement is the only system that no other fg can compare to.

[@Dyleniz]

Me and my friends still play tekken 5 or 6 in an arcade that has it and I miss the movement whenever I switch back to 7

[@Breeze06]

Hey. Which arcade?

[@Dyleniz]

@@Breeze06 mall arcades in the philippines the tekken 7 cabinets were gone after the pandemic only the t6 and tag 2 cabinets remained

[@Breeze06]

@@Dyleniz Cool. Idky but I was under the impression that mvc was the only fighting game being played there.

[@keytwitchyPhD]

I used to really hate the KBD and thought it was a stupid mechanic. But now I realize it's place since it adds risk to backdashing consecutively. If people could backdash quick af and block the whole time that would be lame. Also, being able to actually do it comfortably now makes me a bit biased in favor of it, lol.

[@PhiDX]

It's fun!!

[@keytwitchyPhD]

@@PhiDX Yep. Same with wavedashing and electrics. It's addicting.

[@robertmay6924]

Your breakdowns of Tekken are so entertaining thanks for the entertainment man! From a fellow Noctis main 🫡🫡

[@manmaw_prod]

watching and learning how actually important movement is in tekken outside of 7 and what it looks like in 8 im realizing im gonna get super washed when tekken 8 comes out.

[@zackdoom]

5:55 was deffo a missed input electric

[@cxkxr1212]

7 is one of the most hardcore defensive and fundamental tekken ever. it's more mental than anything. and for that it will always be a great game in it's own right. can't wait for a more aggressive tekken tho.

[@welsh_steel2285]

it's not hardcore in DEPTH though which is the issue here, it creates linear scenerio's with the reduced sidestepping (+slightly reduced back spacing) like the most obvious when vs Akuma/Geese with 1 bar, you just have to wait out their bar attempt because they decided these 2d characters should have a literal nuclear bomb launch at 10 fucking frames!

[@evan6711]

Its more defensive because the game forces you into canned mixups lol. You don't have high coverage options like movement as you did in previous titles.

[@KyeCreates]

​@@evan6711Most mixups you can avoid though which adds to depth.

[@evan6711]

@@KyeCreates wrong, mixups would be terrible at a high level if you could just avoid them and that's not what we see. In DR you could force you opponent into mixups through manipulation of their movement but in T7 you can just hammer out a powerlow/powemid mix that beats everything but jumping and ducking. This game has the worst defensive options in the franchise since T4, low parry aside. Add to that the amount of characters that just get neutral control buttons and you get a game with the defensive depth of a puddle.

[@KazuyaKai923]

That's the biggest lie ever.. T7 got extremely tonned down movement wise compared to tag 2, it added 2D characters none liked, Oki were nerfed and easy one button characters like Claudio were added to encourage noobs.. T7 is a boring game with abysmal graphics that brings nothing interesting

[@zillathe1stdanomega847]

This Set Is So Sick

[@eugenepiven2432]

More sidestepping is good, backdashing like there's no tomorrow is boring. I like that they are taking that approach in t8. I can't remember what tourney it was, but the match was Steve against Miguel. Miguel would take life lead and then he was trying to back dash until timer run out. Eventually he won by doing that. It was on an infinite stage, which helped him do that and it is one way to win, but to me that's not interesting. Backdashing twice for example to make the opponent wiff or just play the mind game of spacing is OK, but infinite fast back dashes that let you cover a lot of distance and playing catch up is lame.

[@PhiDX]

Sephiblack vs another Steve. Steve one shots, and in rage gains a whiff punish one shot. The problem is the attack design and movement options, the backdash is the symptom

[@eugenepiven2432]

@@PhiDX In my experience Steve is hard to sidestep but if they give you a better way to do that and force you to do that more often instead of backdashing I'm all for it.

[@dante2307]

Do an analysis on Gordon Ramsey's burger

[@christopherLrat]

There was a very specific brand of cope that emerged from Tekken 7 when it came to that sort of gameplan that always bothered me. "Oh, you see this is actually super exciting to watch these two pros do nothing the entire match because it's like a samurai batt-" if i wanted to watch and play SamSho I'd do that but I'm trying to enioy some Tekken I'm much more excited to see how Tekken 8's systems will shake things up in these upcoming years even if the in-your-face gorilla aggression isn't everyone's cup of tea

[@KyeCreates]

It becomes fun when you experience it yourself. I like high intermediate matches like raijin level because its a mix of both.

[@Lexicon865]

Aggression literally gets so old. The point of 3D fighters is good movement and if that gets neutered then it becomes pointless. Tekken 7 isn't boring due to the movement (which isn't even that good), it's boring due to several other factors such as the relative lack of Mishimas in top level, the immense amount of turtling, wall carry every damn game, etc

[@KyeCreates]

@@Lexicon865 Mishimas being on top is subjective though, I appreciate the unorthodox characters getting some shine. Same with turtling as that tactic adds more depth to gameplay imo.

[@nickkiller-0710]

Oddly enough I feel like Street Fighter has been going through a similar thing, It's so easy to convert into big damage and/or skip neutral now that people don't have a lot of neutral interactions and mind games anymore. Up close offensive mind games are a bit too prevalent in modern FGs imo, they can be cool in moderation, but I feel like they're extremely repetitive when compared to neutral based mind games since there are more dynamic factors in neutral than when you're blocking and acting mostly based on who's plus and who's minus. Sadly I don't think FG developers have realized yet how stale FGs can get when offense and plus frames are so pushed down our throats.

[@Shodan130]

Except if you don’t like sf6 you can play literally whatever one you do like with rollback netcode thanks to the community supporting legacy games. If you don’t like t8 tough, you don’t get to play tekken

[@nickkiller-0710]

@@Shodan130 That's true, for some reason Bandai just refuses to re-release Tekken games, at least FightCade is starting to support some bigger games nowadays , stuff like CvS2 and the like, it'd be pretty cool if they managed to get T3 or TTT1 to work edit: Just checked it, at least the OG Soul Calibur is currently playable on FightCade

[@ΑναστάσιοςΠαπαζαχαρίου]

Sf6 doesn't have neutral? 🤔🤔

[@Shodan130]

@@ΑναστάσιοςΠαπαζαχαρίου I’m sorry did you play the game that let you do a button into drive rush and then give your next button an extra +4 ? The entire game was about forcing your way in and enforcing mix

[@90Jacobelee]

Do Jang Iksu vs Park Yong Tekken Tag 1❤

[@slyrytang]

this video made me understand why people gas up tekken as a 2d player. shits crazy

[@zackfair1868]

also another trivia qudans that time has a tunnel carpal syndrone that is why he is a bit reserved in his final matches in tekken he needs operation in his tunnel carpal syndrone and for that he is a bit held back to the point he needs to change his wave wave method of pressing..

[@MasamuneKuma]

after viewing the t7 analysis in this vid it seems like t7 would benefit from being played on a shorter timer, the pressure of time running out is what leads to the eventual 1/3 damage lol. i think if we had 40 second rounds like t3 it might help get the aggressive play that the devs want without crazy mechanics.

[@IvanOrdell]

New sub here and loving your content