Are Dutch Cities Really that Different? Debunking Cycling Myths

Whenever urbanists point to Dutch cycling infrastructure as a model to follow, skeptics respond with a list of reasons why Dutch cities are just too different to be relevant elsewhere, especially the U.S. and Canada. “This is all great if you live in a flat, tiny, crowded country without a real winter.” Do they have a point?
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[@OhTheUrbanity]

Do you want to calculate density in your neighbourhood or city? Here’s the tool we used: www.tomforth.co.uk/circlepopulations/ While we don’t think cycling is necessarily impractical at lower densities, our benchmark for “Dutch density” in this video (based on Groningen and Nijmingen) is about 200,000 people fitting in the circle. If you live in a larger metro area, try comparing the densities between different neighbourhoods (e.g., the central city versus the suburbs). If your city is smaller than the circle, or if it has a significant amount of water within the boundaries, the results won’t be comparable.

[@poochyenarulez]

Only 100k population within 5km of the city center in my city, but I'm able to cycle to downtown, to get groceries, and go most places I want. We have a few bike lanes but we need more. Thanks for the tool!

[@robertboender5816]

Zoning is the base of the problem.

[@sandiegofun1]

That is a great tool!

[@DaigoroToyama]

Thank you! I was going to ask about it as soon as I started watching the video and realized you didn't include Seattle in it. 😄

[@jasonriddell]

will say there is a BIG difference that the density tool does NOT SHOW and that is WHAT is in that density beyond people IE destinations like school / grocery / entertainment having 200K people living in a MIXED "15 minute" neighbourhood is FAR different then living in a tower block neighbourhood that is PURE residential / "stroad" car centric businesses

[@betsytb694]

hi, a Dutchman here, I keep hearing that the Netherlands is so flat, and that is true, but what we have to do to resist the wind can almost be compared to a hill. And there is really a lot of wind here!

[@imme4360]

That's very true. I hated biking more when in lived up north than the south, because of the strong wind.

[@extrastuff9463]

Annoying headwinds on a route to a destination usually won't change during that trip since your heading is typically fairly consistent towards a place. And on a bad day it might even have turned on you while you're at work to get stuck in a headwind again on the trip home. Hills are a bit more predictable for that at least! An ebike nicely compensates for both though, I use it a lot more since getting one. Has made work arrival time predictable, I only really need to worry about the right clothing for the temperature/rain and when short on time the pedal assist can be enabled. The extra weight isn't a big deal here in the flat north, but it would be a bit annoying with hills while the pedal assist isn't enabled. For me the biggest benefits are using it more often, going on longer trips, predictable work arrival times and getting cold/frozen groceries home timely even with a headwind or excessively hot weather.

[@jeannebouwman1970]

I have lived in Zeeland and live in Limburg right now, and no it can not. Hills are easily worse

[@jeannebouwman1970]

I have lived in Zeeland and live in Limburg right now, and no it can not. Hills are easily worse

[@jeannebouwman1970]

I have lived in Zeeland and live in Limburg right now, and no it can not. Hills are easily worse

[@thijsvanderzouwen9783]

Jay Foreman disscribed Dutch bike culture best if you ask me: "The Dutch aren't bike mad cycling enthusiasts. That's a bit like saying everybody in Britain is obsessed with vacuum cleaners just because everybody's got one." Very few people in the Netherlands cycle everywhere but almost everybody cycles sometimes. Most people here still own a car but I'm very glad the streets are designed in such a way that I've got options.

[@jasonriddell]

I read the CAR commuter share is over 50% BUT the "secondary" trips are almost always NON car based (90%+/-)

[@dirk-janheemstra4064]

Still this video ignores the most obvious reason how walking and cycling can be more viable options for travel in cities and villages worldwide. You need to be living in walking and cycling distance of most of your destinations preferably within 2km of schools, shops and perhaps even work. That's the reason why dutch neighborhoods have a lot less though traffic and can be re-designed as bike and walking friendly. Looks to me like usually the wrong 'experts' are trying to solve the problem, as it's about zoning of public and commercial services first and traffic infrastructure second.

[@eugenetswong]

Yeah. I think that the 20-80 rule must be "obeyed" when designing infrastructure for the first time. Aiming for what works for most people at least a few times is most important. For my Canadian city, targeting school kids first seems to be the smartest approach.

[@brosaus]

Well about 15% of the population of the Netherlands is under 18 years old. They will cycle everywhere. Then there are hundreds of thousands of students who do the same and plenty of adults and elderly who chose to not drive a car.

[@user-gu9yq5sj7c]

@@dirk-janheemstra4064 Watch Not Just Bikes. Urbanist channels want to redesign cities to be denser to be walkable too. And have more public transit.

[@knarf_on_a_bike]

The winter criticism gets me the most. I live car-free in Toronto. I cyclocommute year-round. Winter isn't that tough. We manage to clear snow from the streets, we can do it from bike infrastructure as well. But YAY FOR OLIVIA CHOW! Rode her bike to her first day of work as mayor. Nice message, Olivia! There is yet hope. . . 😊

[@tay-lore]

Yeah, if you have cleared pavement to ride on, the best advice for winter cycling is to dress light!

[@cwalenta656]

Know what's worse than 23 degrees and snowing? 34 degrees and raining. Forgetting about the bicycle route itself and forgetting about whether your bike is safe at work, for me the basic problem is getting to work and being presentable for work and the weather when I get off of work. I'm remote now so it doesn't matter, but if you're a 'neither rain, nor snow' type of guy, ok, but many aren't.

[@FuckYouTube385]

I live how Canadians always think winter only happens to them and that they have the toughest winter when arguing against the bike. Lol. There are lots of Eastern European cities with biking infrastructure where it snows.

[@lws7394]

Oulu winter cycling kzbin.info/www/bejne/i5nbXmVsfMt2eLc

[@OhTheUrbanity]

@@FuckKZbin385 I haven't heard a lot of talk about bike infrastructure in Eastern Europe. What cities are you thinking of?

[@SmallTown_Studio]

It’s like what NotJustBikes goes on about, “Nobody is driving from Whynot to Humptulips.”

[@SummitCoyote]

my commute has never been less than 20 miles one way ever. way too far to bike

[@SmallTown_Studio]

@@SummitCoyote I'm not talking about commuting. Unless you somehow _only_ exist to work and sleep at night, you're also making trips to the grocery store, appointments, and to other random places or hangouts. 45% of all automobile trips are three miles or less, and that's the majority of trips and a very bikeable distance. There are plenty of Dutch people who drive to work, but do all of their errands and anything else via cycling.

[@SummitCoyote]

@@SmallTown_Studio most people will do their shopping on the way back from work to save a trip. HOW we do shopping is also different. I for one only do shopping once a week so I buy everything in one go. if im hanging out with friends I'm almost definitely not gonna be in the same place I live.

[@roller12coaster]

@@SummitCoyote That can happen too in the Netherlands. Your long commute has nothing to do with the size of the country.

[@NeoOnyx]

I am Dutch and one of the biggest reasons our cycling culture can thrive, is because the layout of our cities is different from North America. We do have residential area’s or suburbs, but there’s pretty much always a supermarket, doctor’s office, school, outdoor markets, local shops etc. nearby, so cycling is easy, where ever you live in the Netherlands.

[@matthewprather7386]

That’s something which could be developed in North American cities - with the proper laws!

[@Zraknul]

North American cities outlawed density, because then non-white Europeans might live close to you.

[@worldeconomicfella3228]

The Netherlands used to have a sort of "Walmart ban" that municipalities still apply. This small crucial law has been of utmost importance to have food nearby, but to also keep the small shops alive that would normally be vampirized by hypermarkets like Walmart.

[@T.2.S.A.]

dat dus.

[@rienkhoek4169]

This, i have 6 supermarkets within 10 minutes biking and pretty much any kind of store or restaurant i can think of.

[@dennyroozeboom4795]

The old world argument is borderline once you realize the youngest PROVENCE in the Netherlands is 30 years old. Meaning it was water before.

[@jasonriddell]

and a "nasty" thing called WW2 happened to clear a LOT of Europe for "MODERN" rebuilding so in some ways it is YOUNGER then America that has NEVER had land "cleared" by hostile countries

[@Handwithaface]

And even the old parts of the cities are far more bicycle friendly now than they were 50 years ago.

[@dennyroozeboom4795]

@@jasonriddell They cleared it themselves. Look at pictures of bombed European cities from the 1940’s and compare it to Huston 1970. There isn’t much difference.

[@Huntracony]

Almost 40 years old now.

[@beskamir5977]

It's even more insane realizing how much of North American cities were absolutely gutted with deliberate bulldozing to accommodate sprawling parking lots and 6 or 8 lane highways. Our cities were good and cars made them bad, so lets undo that damage already.

[@co7013]

What strikes me when I see maps or areal views of cul-de-sac suburbs in North America is that they would be perfect to be equipped with separate cycle lanes and footpaths in between the streets, shortcutting everything and creating walkable neigborhoods with good accessibility by bicycle.. It's just a matter of including them it the design. Throw in some shops and services and apartment buildings and you have a livable neighbourhood.

[@WhereWeRoll]

Yeah except it’s all residential do it wouldn’t be useful for 95% of trips even with those short cuts. Would be great for young kids visiting friends though.

[@amylang2602]

Have to be able to safely cross the arterials.

[@pr0wnageify]

most suburbs do have these, to my knowledge. at least in Canada. for me, it cut several minutes off the walk to the bus stop which could be 20 minute walk away or something like that. although. maybe still 15 minute walk with all the paths. with that, waiting for the bus, riding the bus, it took an hour to get to school 10km away. bus only comes once or twice an hour, timing unreliable, bus stop has no shelter. bus gets stuck in traffic cause no bus lanes. I'm getting mad just remembering the whole thing. I hate the suburbs so much man.

[@JeremyLevi]

@@pr0wnageify It really depends on the age of the suburb and where you live. In my Canadian city it's only really suburbs built from about the 1980s onwards that have them.

[@geoff5623]

Lethbridge Alberta has done pretty well with linear parks and pathways through their newer neighbourhoods (since the 90s or so), but you do still often have to cross streets, and the parks only help avoid the streets if you're travelling a small distance within the neighbourhood - if you're going further you still need to use the major roads for a direct route.

[@TheRealE.B.]

Can confirm that I sweat a lot while biking. Not just because my city is hilly, but also because: 1. The DOT reserves the flattest, most direct routes for cars. 2. I feel pressure to pedal a little harder than I should due to the presence of impatient and inattentive motorists around me. 3. America has declared war on shade, something which is often overlooked when discussing urbanism.

[@weatheranddarkness]

seriously what's the deal with anti-shade trees? Crime Pays But Botany Doesn't has some good stuff on urban plantings.

[@Kizarat]

"America has declared war on shade" .....this definitely needs to be discussed because I've noticed that Canada has done the same. I think it might have something to do with how individualistic North American society has become.

[@blubaughmr]

I have noticed #1 a lot in the Seattle area. It certainly makes things harder.

[@weatheranddarkness]

@@Kizarat it's insane, like don't you as an individual want shade? It's bonkers. A landscape architect once told me that the reason a lot of urban plantings use those Honey Locust trees as "shade trees" is because their tiny leaves don't clog up the sewers. But they offer nothing.

[@weatheranddarkness]

@@wrexus9585 but none of those are actual issues. You have to be very lazy as a city to not clear leaves to the extent that there's build up, and the other ones are so incredibly minor.

[@1957mattes]

I am from the Netherlands. And I can only give you a tip: Each country or city needs its own structure to create an ideal network. And there is an important point: Choice. There must be a Choice for everyone. For cyclists: cycle paths, etc. Pedestrians: sidewalks, crossings, etc. People who want public transport: bus, tram, train, but also rental bicycles. And motorists also need a road. So simply Choice must be present for everyone.

[@kb_100]

The problem with investing too much in car infrastructure is that it makes the other options almost impossible. Car infrastructure takes up too much space and crowds out everything else. So the more you accommodate cars, the less feasible all the other options become.

[@Amir-jn5mo]

Traffic engineering needs a full overhaul. They need to look at how many people can we move in a corrdior instead of how many vehicles we can move. They need to also look at marginal costs like actual companies. How much more value am I getting by investing X bilion more in the current infrastracture vs how much I would get investing in a different one that doesn't even exist yet (trams, bikelanes, sidewalks etc.)

[@kailahmann1823]

Also when you have multiple alternatives, it doesn't matter if one doesn't work in a specific scenario. It's also not about removing the option to drive - it's only about adding two or three other ("walking" not being an option is probably a US specialty…). Yes, the transition phase might increase congestion problems - but that quickly goes away once people start switching, because every other mode of transportation has a massively better land use.

[@michah7214]

The option to choose any form of transportation you want is not built in. There needs to be enough voter demand for something to get funded and get done, or it won't happen.

[@michah7214]

@@Amir-jn5mo ZERO companies in the US will fund projects for which there is little to no demand for.

[@easternblot]

The only reason I (a Dutch person) didn't ride my bike year round when I lived in (flat) Toronto was because in winter the bike lanes were used as a dumping ground for snow that was plowed off the car section of the road.

[@isimerias]

God forbid we remind people that even in Canada our cities existed before cars and are still the most desirable parts of town

[@Zraknul]

My grandparents walked up hill both ways through the snow to school. Now kids are hurried from the house to remote-start warmed/cooled car to get driven to as close as possible to the school that is closer and minimize exposure to the harsh elements or spend a few moments not staring at their phone screens.

[@StartPlayFinish]

The biggest issue is that cities in the US keep finding new excuses to not do it instead of finding reasons to why you should. One of the main issues is how the US has dedicated zones for building. If they would loosen the zone restrictions to accompany stores and restaurants etc. within regions of houses you would get a more divers system of housing and retail that allows for shorter commutes and therefor make it easier and faster to bike.

[@SilvaDreams]

The biggest issue is how are you going to make the room? The streets are already there and the sidewalks are generally already not that large and it's not like you can just shave back buildings to make more room. In Europe that wasn't a big deal since after WW2 everyone was pretty much given a clean slate.

[@grantofat6438]

Perhaps the reason they don't do it is because people don't want it.

[@danymend5797]

@@SilvaDreams "The biggest issue is how are you going to make the room?" They could do it, it would take just time, little by little as building start to become too old they can replace them, and there is the fact that car lanes are highly inefficient so, if they start to actually build real infrastructure for bikes, trains, metros and things like that, people would use the car less, instead of just "Add one more lane bro" each time that there is a problem with the car circulation, and im not even talking about the ridiculous amount of parking in the US that takes a lot of space too

[@railroadforest30]

Very true

[@railroadforest30]

@@SilvaDreamstake large parking lots and empty lots or old malls and build dense mixed use buildings there and connect with transportation

[@littlesnowflakepunk855]

I've never understood the "our country is big, so it wouldn't work" argument. Do you assume that people regularly cycle between Amsterdam and Eindhoven? No, they cycle to their doctor, to work, to the grocery store. Just like you wouldn't cycle between Boston and New York.

[@mau3020]

I live in a city with 8 million inhabitants, and the city is big, but has an extensive network of cycle lanes and people do use it, and you can cross the city in 45-50 minutes. But for most trips, they take around 7 to 15 minutes. So: the country is too big is not a valid argument since cycling is limited mostly to urban areas.

[@nlx78]

I also don't get why most cycle videos is just shots of Amsterdam Central Station area and that's somehow respresental for the 1000s of km's throughout cities (even the outskirts of Amsterdam) or just a lot relaxed to cycle, let alone all the km's between cities and towns. But nope, you see vid of 10 trams and people narrowly avoiding a car or bike. No proper lights or roundabouts. It's the worst part in the Netherlands to cycle. Maybe another old city center takes that spot now but most cities changed and closed all for just buses, pedestrians and cycling.

[@plainText384]

Well, it can be nice to do longer bicyle trips during vacation. For example, my friends and I cycled from southern Germany to lake garda in northern Italy over the course of a couple days, which google maps claims takes about as long as Boston to New York (It's a shorter distance, but you are driving through the alps so it's has more hills). It can be nice to have bicycle infrastructure outside of urban areas, even if you rarely use them. Most people don't commute from New York to Boston either, but it's nice to have the highway when you're going on vacation anyway.

[@Merzui-kg8ds]

I think you missed the point of "too big". Our cities in the US are built such that, to drop your baby at daycare, ride to grocery, then get to work, pop out at midday for that doctor appt, then back to work, then back to the daycare, is just not realistic time/distance for most people. Your employer would have to be very, very sympathetic to your commute times. Many jobs list as a requirement: must have own vehicle, for this reason. Also, until we create a culture where walking in to work looking like you just went through a car wash, it is just not realistic in our services-spread-out-all-over cities.

[@guzferreira]

Montreal: starts cleaning the bike lanes in the winter. The car freaks: “why so many resources to these useless bike lanes?”

[@theepimountainbiker6551]

Me: I PAY SAME TAXES YOU DO WHY CAN I NOT GET AROUND AS WELL AS YOU (to the car obsessed folks)

[@KiranMachiraju]

Like they say in Asia, "Come on! No excuses, be a man!"

[@guynicoletti5811]

Most people who say “not with my tax dollar” refer to government infrastructure or services that they themselves don’t want or use.

[@slimetank394]

​@@guynicoletti5811yet we also pay taxes for their infrastructures too, but nooooo, only them get to say what infrastructure should taxes go to.

[@electrosyzygy]

yeah I've heard that one a lot. It can also double as a sidewalk if it isn't cleared yet since not *that many* ppl cycle in winter, yet

[@Kizarat]

It truly annoys me how North Americans see that we have so much land on this continent that we use/develop it in the most wasteful ways possible.

[@benlow5537]

Its always the people that think sprawl is somehow better for the environment because they see more green between buildings

[@WarrenSvoboda]

@@benlow5537 suburban nature = my backyard. city nature = pile of syringes.

[@benlow5537]

@@WarrenSvoboda right

[@Kizarat]

@@benlow5537 Suburban greenery often amounts to being an ecological desert.

[@user-gu9yq5sj7c]

And some of the people who use North America is big as a excuse or waste land, complain about overpopulation.

[@kjh23gk]

One thing that often gets forgotten is that Dutch cities didn't start with the goal of being the best cycling cities. Their goal was to make the cities safe for *everyone* moving around. As they became safer for cyclists, the number of people cycling increased.

[@jasonriddell]

and there is a LOT of VERY GOOD car infrastructure so it is NOT like as portrayed CAR VS BIKE

[@highway2heaven91]

@@jasonriddellThat is true. The Netherlands designs highways better than the US as well.

[@kjh23gk]

@@highway2heaven91 Yep, Not Lust Bikes has a great video on how driving in the Netherlands is better than driving in North America.

[@D0NL]

Correct. While driving your car you usually don't have to worry about stupid people on bikes and other way around. It's just a save country to travel and nothing more nothing less. People only see what they see, what they don't see is what needs to be build.

[@ChristopherRayMiller]

Exactly. Back in the 1970s the Netherlands was a North American-style car-choked, pedestrian-, cyclist- and child-killing hellhole. They realised this was the wrong way to go and over four decades *created* what they have now almost from scratch, by trial and error until they discovered the best way to plan for safe mobility and mobility that gives people the *choice* of something other than cars, cars, cars everywhere to the exclusion of almost anything else.

[@lolololol7573]

The hills is the worst argument with e-bikes nowadays.

[@drunkensailor112]

And also several dutch cities are very hilly. In nijmegen lots of people use altered racing bikes or gravel bikes as they are much lighter.

[@theepimountainbiker6551]

Snow and sweat too. If its 40°c out I'll take my ebike for a ride simply because its not so hot and I still get some exercise. Hills or not

[@harrybruijs2614]

They should trying to cycle into a western wind Beaufort 4/5

[@anubizz3]

Well we have motorcycle hundred years ago....

[@pilot_bruh576]

Plus hills are insanely easy to bike on just get off your bike and walk a few hundred meters

[@stefangrobbink7760]

It may be important to note that bike lanes were introduced primarily as a safety measure for cyclists, and that's still their primary function outside of cities. Framing it as such may cause less criticism than the current method.

[@bindingcurve]

What is the current method?

[@41052]

Yeah what is the current method?

[@punkandkittens13]

@@bindingcurve I'm *assuming* they mean encouraging and promoting cycling as a positive. People get defensive and think you're going to take away their cars or that infrastructure should follow only when there is greater "demand."

[@johngelderblom7107]

Bike lanes also protect cars. They remove the stress of having to pay attention to this small maneuverable crushable thing.

[@lovelance__5892]

@@punkandkittens13 and after the cars, guns then bible followed

[@sahitdodda5046]

I get the hilly argument a lot in Plano, Tx ,which is funny because Plano is Spanish for flat. Its flatter than a pancake here

[@rich7447]

Drive up Preston towards Frisco and it is uphill all the way.

[@wojogo]

I love that you give due consideration to factors that might work against bikes in certain contexts, rather than always boosting bikes as the perfect solution. I also really appreciate that you narrate in a respectful way as if talking IRL to a reasonable person who disagrees. It's frustrating to watch certain other channels where the tone can be rude and people who disagree are called stupid or otherwise disregarded. Online spaces often incentivize creators to preach to the converted and 'dunk' on the opposition. I hope you keep up your resistance to this trend and publish more high-quality, insightful videos.

[@bararobberbaron859]

It is kind of understanding that some urbanists have grown a bit tired of all the weak arguments these people come with against like they haven't debunked them hundreds of times already. It's like how reasonable atheists tend to either grow more militant because religious people can't just leave them the F alone or just grow cold to it. Sometimes the solution is fairly obvious and people resisting despite the clear science against their point. I do like that this channel doesn't do 'dunking' because it's important not to admonish too much, but I do get it sometimes. "Our country is bigger" is the dumbest argument, if they just said 'outside of city centers our population density is far too low to support this as things are' then at least they were using the right argument. So I can understand how urbanists get sick of having to explain time and time again that those against are purposely ignorant.

[@jackatherton308]

Love the circle density comparisons.

[@joostensylviadekoster1175]

You can also point the circle's in rural area's in the Netherlands. The bike infrastructure is there extensive as well.

[@somerandomedgyguy1723]

North America also loves extremes. The term "war on cars" illustrates it perfectly. Everything gets turned in to a shocking disaster with little room for the in-between. This may be a direct consequence of majority voting systems where duality is the standard and it's always about choosing "a side" - rather than proportional representation in most of Europe, where consensus and coalition-building is the norm. Just to add another dimension to the issue. This could be contributing to the narrative of "Amsterdam vs us" or "Europe vs NA" in people's minds.

[@jeroen3657]

There actually is a war on cars in Amsterdam at the moment. Some of it makes sense others are just bullying. Cars are being used to balance the budget so they will never get outright banned of course.

[@mrpetit2]

This is indeed the biggest problem regarding US attitude imho. A phrase like "you are either with us, or against us" says so much about the US, but a phrase like that would hardly ever be used in most of western europe.

[@bararobberbaron859]

@@mrpetit2 Here its more 'I wish you were with us but I respect that you're not'

[@JustJanitor]

I recently saw a video about the differences between winter cycling in Finland vs Toronto. Finland has better infrastructure and cleans the snow off it multiple time a day if needed. Anytime there is more than 2cm of snow they clear it.

[@nickdentoom1173]

Not only that, Finland is also really spread out.

[@prashnaveetprasad8339]

In US, my state, no ones cleans out, and this is for motorist lol They clean out later

[@YoungThos]

That video was done by NotJustBikes, and it also immediately came to my mind while watching this video and I also mentioned it in my comment 😅

[@daa3930]

Small correction: You are thinking about Oulu, not Finland as a whole. For example Tampere, which is about 400km further south than Oulu and has less snowfall, sucks for winter cycling because the maintenance just isn't there. But this nitpicking just highlights your point: it's not about snowfall or temperature, but about infrastructure and maintenance. Which was NJB's point in that video. IIRC he even used Tampere as an example to drive home his point about the importance of the winter maintenance.

[@andrelam9898]

Here is the link from "Note Just Bike's" video on Oulo. This is a city around the same size as the creator's home town of London Ontario and is ABOVE the arctic circle. They get serios winter. If they can made it work most of the time so can just about any other industrialized city. kzbin.info/www/bejne/i5nbXmVsfMt2eLc

[@gladtobeangry]

I grew up in Limburg, in the south of the Netherlands, the only genuinely hilly region of the country. To get to school in the low-lying city from the low-lying village where I lived, I'd have to cycle a 5,5 mile journey across a hill about 700 ft tall, with gradients up to 13% at the start. The other way round it was about a 4 miles semi-false flat slow grind to get back to the top of the hill, and then you'd have the reward of rolling down the steep hill into the village. WEEE!! I was a lazy kid, so I often took the bus instead of cycling. But, and this is the important bit, I was mocked for that by my peers, I was the exception to the rule. 90% of the kids who lived too far away to walk to school, cycled to school, which inevitably meant having to cross the hills to their village, with the steep gradients the hills of Limburg are notorious for. It was literally considered weird that you wouldn't want to do that. Visit any highschool in Limburg, and the first thing you'll notice are the bike racks for hundreds and hundreds of bikes. And this continued when I started working: Most companies, even the ones on remote industrial parks, will have a large, usually sheltered, bicycle parking, alongside parking for people who prefer to commute by car. Hills or no hills, many people will come to work on their bicycles, if it's a commute within 10 miles. Many of them preferred commuting by bicycle over commuting by car, even if they had the choice. If you work in a factory or a big office building, it is nice to get some fresh air before you start the day, and while you're traveling home, and you get the exercise for free. I've been to the US and Canada. Sure, there are taller hills and mountains in some places, but most of the densely populated places I've seen over there aren't any more hilly than the hilly region I grew up in. It is not an argument against bicycles, it's just an excuse.

[@alphaniner3770]

It is indeed entirely normal to cycle to school in the Netherlands - one can say that it's part of the culture. Not owning a bike is seen as a weird, and not giving your kid a bike is frowned upon 😊

[@tiemen9095]

@@alphaniner3770 Also, not giving your kid a bike is like hating yourself. Because now you have to bring your kid everywhere.

[@noyota]

My local hill is 2676ft, the other one 3540'. Let's trade.....

[@gladtobeangry]

@@noyota I know some sporty cyclists from the Netherlands who would love to trade with you, just for the easy access to serious climbs, which we don't really have here. But for a commute or a school trip, 700 ft is taxing enough, especially with the steep gradients. Doesn't stop many kids from doing it on a daily basis though.

[@dbs5212]

what is feet

[@Anna_Rae]

I think if bikes are truly impractical in a particular place, that’s where mass transit should step in, not cars.

[@linuxman7777]

A car is meant to be an upgraded form of the horse and buggy, to connect rural areas to towns and cities, once at the place, then transit should step in to connect places together. If a person lives where it is very remote, or where transit is too expensive to run, the car can step in. Alot of Urbanists do like cars as the allow more people to access towns and cities, and help collapse distances that horses struggled to cover. The problem isn't with cars so much as it is with Parking as well as designing places like Stroads that don't communicate speed and danger effectively to the driver. Unlike a good divided fast road, or a slow compact street.

[@prashnaveetprasad8339]

@@linuxman7777 motorcycle is more better than cars. Car is just an excuse for laziness and status, common with western folks and middle eastern folks. How come Vietnamese use their scooter as an pick up truck ?

[@linuxman7777]

@@prashnaveetprasad8339 A motorcycle is an upgraded bike. Just like a car is an upgraded horse and buggy. Have you heard of the Amish? They still use horse and buggy

[@delftfietser]

​@prashnaveetprasad8339 For lots of people in the USA and Canada, a motorcycle is a status item, like a sportscaster. The car isn't seen as about being lazy or selfish anymore than a motorbike is to someone in Thailand.

[@888ettio]

I love how how acknowledge, without ridiculing, the most prevalent counter arguments to cycling. It makes your opinions overall more convincing

[@Peteruspl]

+1

[@guynicoletti5811]

Yes, some other channels (you know who I mean) are arrogant to the point of being a complete turn-off. I enjoy driving, walking and biking…I generally agree with all the ‘urban planning’ of these channels, but when they have a ‘holier than thou’ attitude, I see red. Infrastructure in different parts of the world have grown organically, like it or not, over tens and/or hundreds of years. The challenge is to improve what we have and not ridicule. It’s not helpful.

[@SvenEugenots]

@@guynicoletti5811 No, infrastructure does not grow "organically", it's been a choice to focus on car infrastructure and strict zoning regulations in NA. Precisely as it has been a choice to take a different direction in the Netherlands in the 70's. Most NA cities where always mixed zoning and walkable/bikeable and had decent public transport, that changed when whole city area's were torn down after WW2, to make way for highways and parking space. This happened to some degree in the Netherlands, but we have reversed it in many cases.

[@anubizz3]

@@guynicoletti5811 What are you talking about? aside from Shifter (well at least he not hiding under Urbanist channel ) this one of the worst, this channel creator not even go to Amsterdam yet before worship them and then do the tourist bike tour while they there.... even The FAMOUS channel admitted defeat when he go to Swiss city . while this channel just throw excuse after excuse .

[@omervandenbelt]

Studded tires are not allowed here in The Netherlands. I use the same tires the whole year around. Just adapting my riding style during the winter. BicycleDutch has some videos on his channel about cycling during Dutch winter.

[@ammelovmokum7346]

just loosen up when hitting ice or snow and carry on going from a to b

[@Chris-wn6sc]

@@ammelovmokum7346 Yep, and avoid sudden sharp turns or you will slide the rest of the way on your ass XD

[@MrMezmerized]

If it gets really tricky I lower my saddle to take weight off the front wheel and so I can reach the ground.

[@josecarvajal6654]

I find it funny when people in colder countries say they can't have walkable and cyclable cities because of the wether, because I live in the Caribbean and that's exactly the same thing you hear here. "That only works in cold countries, here it's too hot for that"

[@TrickiVicBB71]

Finally a video about these arguement. I live in Edmonton. People say we are a car centric city that has -40C winter 8 months of the year. Not worth spending a dime on bikes. "Need more parking in DT ."they say. To which I say, "Find me a 1 million parking spaces in Downtown cause that is the population of the city."

[@pcongre]

*1 for their homes + 1 for work/study + 1 for other uses = 3 million or more ; )

[@herschelwright4663]

Certain people in Winnipeg pretty much make the same argument.

[@nerysvanbeurden8434]

As a Dutchie the flatness is real though. One summer vacation in Jersey (The English Island) we rent a bike for the day and going uphill was almost impossible. We aren't used to that. But I still saw locals calmly climbing those hills on bikes. It depends on what you're used to, for example; I never shift my gear fromt the highest setting but other people probably do so. There are indeed plenty of other countries who have good cycling infrastructure, like Denmark. This was a really good video with a lot of research, good job!

[@Senteri]

As another Dutchie, I shift my gears all the time on my bike as if I'm riding a car, incidentially I've never driven a car before in my life. When I'm stationary, I put my gear to the lowest so I can accelerate fast and during acceleration I shift the gears to the 5th to get up to speed and depending on how hard the wind blows or how much of a hurry I have, I sometimes put it to 7 or leave it at 5.

[@jasonriddell]

@@Senteri try Canadian prairie towns as they are FLAT as Winnipeg / Edmonton ETC

[@lihtan]

I used to live in Vancouver, which has plenty of hills. When you live in such an environment, your body eventually adapts to it. The best way to improve your fitness as a cyclist is to deliberately challenge yourself with climbing hills.

[@drunkensailor112]

There are very hilly dutch citities as well such as nijmegen. It is very doable. People use lighter bikes

[@drunkensailor112]

@@Wiking8945 yes. Can find climbs up to 16% here. But I can't do those on regular bikes, but 10% is doable.

[@inuendo6365]

"Too hot" is a great reason to add trees for shade along bike routes. And trees just so happen to slow down cars too!

[@grantofat6438]

And their roots are great for falling over and smashing your head when they grow through the pavement. Trees along roads and paths is a bad idea.

[@inuendo6365]

@@grantofat6438 only when city planning is cheap/garbage and refuse to plan around a sustainable tree growth or plant fast growing non-native trees because they're too lazy to do their research. See Paris, Sacramento, Jakarta, Honolulu, Singapore, Berlin, Sapporo or even ole Minneapolis to see how well-planned tree shade is AWESOME for walking around.

[@ThalassTKynn]

I'm up in northern Ontario. I've been talking to people about Oulu more than Amsterdam. You're definitely right about hills vs bike geometry. I bought an opafiets with the intention to commute on it, but while most of my town is fairly flat, my work is up a pretty steep hill. Luckily bikes are relatively cheap other than the high end racing stuff. So I bought an old road bike for commuting on. I ride the opafiets for everything else. 😃

[@drunkensailor112]

I live in a hilly city in the netherlands. Nijmegen. When I go to hilly area's I use an altered mtb, or gravel bike and regular bike for flatter parts as well and the great thing with cycling in a hilly part are the downhill parts. You always get rewarded for your efforts. I never want to live in a flat city again

[@canuzzi]

@@drunkensailor112 Epsecially as in the flat netherlands you get no reward. You have to go both way against the wind ;)

[@theepimountainbiker6551]

​@@pdblouinIm in Sudbury too, have tons of videos biking in winter. I always ask people here if nobody bikes in winter why do we have 3 locations dedicated to biking in winter. Fatbiking is big in Sudbury, like most other winter sports these same people who say its too cold partake in.

[@simonh6371]

@@canuzzi So true I used to commute 40 mins bike ride every day from the west of Amsterdam and often the wind hits you from 3 directions as it finds a way to bounce off buildings. Then sometime before the evening it changes direction, and you have to deal with it for 3/4 of the journey home.

[@matthijstermeer611]

That would be 'omafiets'; hardly a bicycle for Canada, I would imagine. I commend you for using it, though.

[@rosaliebosma]

15:27 "or if you're covering longer distances than in The Netherlands, sweat is real" even after 10-15 minutes of moderate biking, you will sweat. you're saying America's not Amsterdam, but the rest of the Netherlands isn't Amsterdam either I had to bike for 30 minutes to get to work. I would sweat a lot, even though I'm still biking in the Netherlands. Solution? I just made sure to arrive a bit earlier, so to have time to freshen up in the restroom and put on a clean shirt. It would've been cool if they had showers, but it's not like I'm not biking anymore because 'oh no i will sweat'

[@lavenderw]

as a phoenician, i can say that the summer heat could (and does) limit the usefullness cycling during the summer, however as someone whose been walking around more during the summer, i think that walking is a more viable option here in the summertime (as long as youre careful). that being said, the weather is pretty much universally great for cycling the rest of the year, so i dont think that should be a dealbreaker.

[@dutchman7623]

Walking 15 minutes or cycling 3? A bicycle takes less energy than shoes and less sweat. Plant trees along the route and you'll be in the shade. Never seen so many barren cities as in the US.

[@blubaughmr]

On an ebike, if the temperature is below 98, you get more convective cooling by moving faster. If the temperature is above 98, convective doesn't work, but you get more evaporative cooling by moving faster. In summers in high school and college, I would ride my bike to a restaurant job in Sacramento when it was over 100 and it felt like standing in front of an open oven. I was going to work in a hot kitchen, so arriving sweaty didn't matter, because I was going to get sweaty at work anyway!

[@jamesphillips2285]

My upper temperature cut-off is 37C (~97F) (I figure at that point moving air heats instead of cooling). But I live on the (relatively dry) prairies: so humidity is not even a factor most of the time. It also hardly ever gets that hot. (I almost think cold is easier to adapt to: because your can always add layers.)

[@grahamturner2640]

Though the heat isn’t a completely insurmountable challenge either. I haven’t gone on rides longer than 2.5 miles in heat over 110 degrees, though on medium-distance rides, putting water in my helmet and bringing a water bottle with me is enough to deal with most of the heat challenges.

[@lavenderw]

@@grahamturner2640 i have certainly biked in the extreme heat as well, however i dont think itd be comfortable for everybody

[@NickCombs]

I have experience bike commuting in the Phoenix area. You get a surprising amount of evaporative cooling. I found it more comfortable than a car which becomes a literal oven until the AC can do its work. And it's not really practical to wait outside the car until that happens. That said, you need to use sunscreen and stock enough water when biking. You also need hygiene supplies and a change of clothes for the destination.

[@pcongre]

what about if you're using an e-bike? (the little experience i have in warmer climates = it helps A LOT)

[@NickCombs]

@@pcongre Yes, go with electric if you can.

[@andrelam9898]

I loved the video. Just one minor correction, the Dutch very much LOVE watching the Tour de France. Especially since a Dutch team has been one of the top teams for the last few years and a number of Dutch and Flemish cyclists have been very successful. The difference is that they don't corollate cycling as a sport with cycling as an easier / quicker way to pop over to a store or catch a train. Those are different things. In the weekends, especially on the outskirts of cities you'll see "road bike" groups out for a vigorous ride. They aren't going to push 20 to 30 mph speeds within city limits. The will hit the "open" paths outside of cities for their higher speed runs.

[@plainText384]

Kind of like walking in a city vs. running a marathon or watching Usain Bolt in the Olympics.

[@GojiMet86]

Funnily enough, with ongoing climate change and the recent warm winters, the snowy winters in North America will actually stop being an excuse. Of course, this hasn't prevented the Finnish from biking.

[@weatheranddarkness]

or danish for that matter.

[@michah7214]

But you can't make people ride bikes who don't want to ride bikes .....you could build it, but I don't think they're going to come

[@alembiqueONE]

⁠@@michah7214nobody wants to “make” everyone ride bikes. but if you build safe and convenient infrastructure people will start using it.

[@lws7394]

​​@@michah7214hat about 'fiorcing ' everybody to drive ? The fact that 30% of morning rush hour traffic in N- Am is kids being driven to school is just mindblowing !

[@earlwashburn1002]

well, warmer winters might mean more snow depending on your location.

[@rosaliebosma]

i love how they say density, hills and weather are the minor problems to US&Canada's situation with bikes, yet, the biggest part of the video is spent discussing those topics. i feel like 'the distances' are used too much as an excuse. obviously, you don't have to cycle everywhere. but if you need to be somewhere closeby such as the supermarket or a friend's house, you might as well cycle. it's also an excellent solution for the last mile problem.

[@Judith_Remkes]

They spend so much time talking about it to debunk it.

[@rosaliebosma]

@@Judith_Remkes I still feel like they were rambling on a bit- they still sounded a bit reserved and unconvincing. Maybe that's just my perception tho

[@PeterSdrolias]

Absolutely love your channel! The politians in my city need to watch your videos in order to make better decisions regarding active transportation.

[@lindseywalsh]

Local city Councilmember here, who also loves their videos. I’ve started hearing about Strong Towns much more from my regional colleagues lately, so the message is getting out there.

[@CultureCompassTV]

I'm Dutch and there's nothing better than hopping on an electric bike in the hot summer breeze. Even a normal bike is nice, better than walking as you also feel the breeze. Weird arguments made for argument's sake it seems.

[@Nick-vd7cg]

Yeah man, temperature doesnt affect our choice of NOT cycling.. maybe when its snowing like mad but temperature alone not lol...

[@waisinglee1509]

I cycled across the Netherlands over 30 years ago. They certainly did not have the bike infrastructure back then that you see now. It was pretty bad/disappointing. I had heard a lot of good things about it but it was terrible going on those cobblestoned lanes. Back home in Montreal it was even worse. Now, the situation is changing so much that I would stay optimistic. You're young, just keep pushing!

[@gert-janvanderlee5307]

The implementation / improvement of Dutch cycling infrastructure started in the 70's and it's still improving now. I cycled to school 37 years ago and a lot has improved since then but it was safe enough, even back then.

[@user-vv6vu1xj7t]

At my school, people say they might cycle in the summer but not in the winter 'because it's too cold'. However, I can tell from this that they don't cycle much because you get a lot warmer when cycling because you're exercising.

[@TheNiteinjail]

all it takes is for a group of cool kids to start grouping together to bike and scoot as enthusiasts ... then they told 2 friends .. and they told 2 friends. then suddenly personal efficient transport becomes fashionable and profitable..

[@goldenstarmusic1689]

As a Twin Cities resident, I've got some insight for that extreme weather and cycling. Despite the second coldest temperatures of any major North American Metropolis as shown in the video, Minneapolis-St Paul has one of the strongest bike networks in the United States on a regional scale. The suburb of Woodbury shown here is actually full of paved trails between neighborhoods and on arterial roads. The suburbs of the Twin Cities, even as far flung as the rural and exurban cities dozens of miles/kilometers out, are still connected by high quality regional trails and bike+Multimodal infrastructure. Sidewalks and trails are mostly maintained and plowed in winters, and people bike+walk year round. Simply put, no matter where you are, there are trips you will mostly be taking that are within a few miles of where you live. Inner suburbs of the Twin Cities have, in a matter of 1-2 decades, built bike infrastructure city wide that is exceptional for what people would imagine even post-WWII US suburbs to look like. At some point I would love to see a video on Twin Cities Urbanism. Between the massive Minnesota state legislature wins this year including increased Public transit+intercity rail funding, and a statewide push for cycling and pedestrian infrastructure? There's a real bright future here. We are building a lot of housing, including affordable housing, to a point of reducing our inflation rate to the lowest among major US Metropolitan areas. Suburbs are creating new downtowns and city centers from dead shopping malls like the Brooklyn Center Downtown or Burnsville Center Redevelopment plans. Bloomington has almost created a new downtown from parking lots and empty space adjacent to the Mall of America, spurred by the Blue Line LRT. Biking is increasingly popular with year-on-year infrastructure improvements, street redesigns like Bryant Ave creating world class residential bike infrastructure. I could go on, but it's worth a deep dive! Great video yet again!

[@jfkusa123]

I grew up in Woodbury, yeah there are trails along roads but you aren’t going anywhere it is 4 miles to the nearest store from where I grew up. Better than a lot but just doesn’t have any mixed use or utility for transportation. Great for recreation though!

[@goldenstarmusic1689]

@@jfkusa123 it's definitely improved to be fair, and what will make it better is once Woodbury experiences more of the densification and rapid transit expansion other twin cities suburbs are getting. Remember, the Gold Line is getting built there!

[@highway2heaven91]

The twin cities are doing a good job. They just need to convert their BRT lines to LRT sooner rather than later.

[@goldenstarmusic1689]

@@highway2heaven91 it's definitely not impossible but it will take time. BRT planning here is a near term solution to fixing a major problem, that being a bus dependent network with a lack of proper bus infrastructure. Treating BRT as a solution to building a better bus network over a replacement to rail is a solid start. The LRT lines are also getting expanded with multiple LRT lines planned, like the Riverview corridor or Midtown Greenway line

[@elliott959]

biking in the snow is fun as hell. why let your morning coffee run be a chore when it can be an adventure?

[@RichardRenes]

I can not stress enough that the situation in the Netherlands did not happen overnight... like most North -American cities, we started with painted bike lanes. It's just that we started 50 years ago and almost every major street or road in the Netherlands has undergone maintenance since then. And with maintenance came new infrastructure for bikes. Protected lanes, protected dual lanes, from regular crossings to roundabouts, you name it. And we are actively reducing demand. We close one or more car lanes to make room for more bicycles, streetcars, busses and pedestrians, and re-route cars to other roads.

[@slee2819]

Ahhh yes, the forced choice to ride a bicycle. Close lanes to cars to make it increasingly difficult to drive. Tax gas as well. That way, only the rich overlords can afford to drive. The Dutch are also doing really well destroying their own farming industry. No thanks.

[@joepkamminga807]

Well thats not true. We build an entire new province and just included them in the design of our roads. In Murica when new city’s get build they just focus on cars. The howl point is starting with bike lanes in new areas and then connect the old. I highly agree with people who believe you should just come and see how it works.

[@slee2819]

@@joepkamminga807 Im curious how people drop their kids off at different schools on bicycles before they have to go to work?

[@renzo123123able]

It depends on how far away that school is and how much kids and the age of rhem kids are Walking, cycling or sit in a bakfiets with mom Riding it and ofcourse a lot get thrown out of a car in front of f school

[@ineke71]

​@slee2819 kids usually ride their own bikes with the parent riding next to them. Really young kids ride on child seats on the parent's bike. From the age of 8 - 10 children usually learn to bike to school on their own, so parents only bring the really young kids to school

[@leopoldleoleo]

12:18 is a great point. A big thing holding Montreal back is that there’s no safe public bike storage downtown

[@joostprins3381]

Not wearing a helmet is due that we are almost born on a bike, and the Dutch amount of cycling accidents with a head injury are very low. And the Dutch just don’t like to be forced to wearing a helmet on a bike, because it messes up your hair going to the office, theater, shop or hairdresser.

[@PauldeVrieze]

And it brings the problem what to do with the helmet when you are not actually cycling.

[@ooSicknesSoo]

This has also to do with the "bike culture". Most people driving cars, also own bikes. In the weekends they go out, with their whole families, on their bikes. Their partners do groceries on bikes, their kids go to school on bikes. This creates a mutual understanding, of the vulnerability of cyclists as well as the dangers of cars, between car drivers and cyclists.

[@Robin_Goodfellow]

I live in Anchorage, Alaska. Most of the city is flat, it has a medium population of 350,000 people, and has a strong recreational winter cycling culture. But if we could get a large number of people to commute by bike even just during the three short months of the summer, that would be transformative for the city. We just need more people to see things that way.

[@LeafHuntress]

Focus less on the commute to the exclusion of everything else. People can cycle to other things than just work. Fishing is big there right? Well cycle to fish. Or the wonderful feeling of cycling home from the pub, slightly drunk.

[@Robin_Goodfellow]

@@LeafHuntress Hmm. All the good fishing is too far away. But the mountain bike park? That's an achievable distance, and makes too much sense.

[@rich7447]

Anchorage isn't all that cold as far as northern cities go. It is warmer than central continental cities much farther south.

[@Robin_Goodfellow]

@@rich7447 This is true. Condolences to all of the North Dakotans out there

[@aquaticko]

One thing that's really popped out to me moving from an older part of the U.S. (northern New England) to a newer one (metro Portland, OR) is that roads in the former followed terrain more naturally; roads curved around steep hills, instead of being laid right over them. I'm not sure what, if anything would be done about this, but it's another way that assuming car dependency for anyone traveling on a road does impede easy non-car use.

[@pcongre]

09:47 agreed! also, flat + coast = often windy so NL/DK are some unusually badly suited areas for biking, in this sense (...whereas e g Northern Italy should, following their logic, be an [inter]urban cycling Mecca, when not foggy 😅)

[@weatheranddarkness]

at bike speeds fog isn't an issue. At car speeds definitely.

[@pcongre]

@@weatheranddarkness right, makes sense! 👍🏼

[@Paulski25]

Fog is usually not an issue for bikes indeed. Also: e-bikes help al lot when you have to cycle against it As for in what conditions not to cycle, I would say in extreme windy situations, when traveling by car or by train is also troublesome, 8 Beaufort and more... I also refuse to cycle in times of wet winter conditions, where I can expect a layer of ice below the snow. That happens here in the Netherlands for about 2 weeks per year on average at most. The other 50 weeks, cycling is the way to go for any distance below 10 km.

[@Aeyekay0]

Great video, I think you guys are becoming the best North American bike/transit/urban advocacy channels on KZbin! NJB would be proud

[@soundscape26]

They're much nicer that NJB... that guy is condescending and annoying.

[@LeafHuntress]

@@soundscape26 Anyone going on videos of other channels to complain about Not Just Bikes is condescending & annoying. You may not like his style, you are free not to watch it. He is successful enough without you.

[@Amir-jn5mo]

@@soundscape26 different strokes for different folks. I would for the first few years of NJB, he was just talking about Strong Towns principles which poor chuck marohn had been talking about nicely and professionally for more than a decade with cricket noises from the wider online community. Enter NJB and his much more aggressive tone and now everyone on youtube is talking about urbanism.

[@soundscape26]

@@LeafHuntress I didn't came here to comment specifically on him but since he was mentioned... I'm also successful without him, though not on KZbin so we're even. 😄

[@MarioFanGamer659]

@@Amir-jn5mo Plus, it helps that he's doing this from the perspective of a regular citizen instead of some expert in the field like Prof. Dave Amos or former traffic (IIRC) engineer Ray Delahany (aka City Beautiful and CityNerd, respectively), which in turn also helps to make the average citizens relate to them and take actions i.e. that you don't need a degree in urban planning or smth. to fix the issues with your city.

[@proposmontreal]

Great animations. On a side note. I will not lie, Montreal's snow is what makes me hesitate take the bike 12 months a year.

[@lws7394]

Snow clearing Oulu (200k pop) style solves that problem. I find it much more pleasant to cycle in -5-10⁰C than +5⁰C in humid/rainy conditions !

[@delftfietser]

Oulu does prove that winter cycling in a subarctic climate is possible with maintained infrastructure. It does always mean that installing that plowed infra and giving everyone a bicycle will result in a decent share of the population on the bike in the winter. Local culture matters. Even in Oulu, there are far fewer cyclists out in winter weather. To hope for a quick and seemingly painless changeover like in Paris with its infra development but with winter cycling is likely asking for too much for NA 's Oulu-weather winter cities.

[@proposmontreal]

@@delftfietser Ok, I've never said it can't be done, I've only stated that it's what keeps me from cycling year long.

[@delftfietser]

@@proposmontreal Yup, I cycle through the winter in Winnipeg. On the sidewalk. Can't trust the drivers, takes one to know one. But we watch you guys in Montreal, because it's your city that's normalizing winter cycling from a Canadian context.

[@theepimountainbiker6551]

​@@delftfietserglad to see Im not the only 1 that uses the sidewalk in Canada winters. Cars even with their perfectly plowed lanes still slip and slide in to eachother, there is no winning that battle on a bike. I even use an electric fatbike, sidewalks are barely plowed in Sudbury

[@neotekz]

I like how Mark Sutcliffe is walking on a street because there's no sidewalk and talking about war on cars.

[@theepimountainbiker6551]

Hes a goof for sure

[@DaveGaming99]

What a beautiful video! So easy to understand and sincerely responds to common cycling myths, planning on sending this to everyone!!

[@abel6846]

Youth (12 to 18 yo) in the Netherlands, routinely bike to school for 4 to 8 miles (one way), from villages and suburbs into cities.

[@AnotherDuck]

For kids, bikes are a great way to extend the range they can move in. But that also needs less helicopter parents and outrage of kids doing things without adult supervision.

[@kailahmann1823]

About Hills I recommend to check the Southern German city of Freiburg: 34% bike share in a city that doesn't just have hills. It has actual mountains (>1km height) and is Germany's major city with the biggest height difference. Overall when it's about cycling being a "normal" mode of transportation it's by far not only the Netherlands, but basically all of Western Europe north the Alpes (with the exception of France, which is currently getting closer). It's not the same level of quality as in the Netherlands, but it's usable.

[@thebikejournal0303]

Love your channel. It would be great to see more people in Canada cycle year round. Hopefully our cities keep improving the cycling infrastructure. I plan to bike this winter in Lethbridge, AB where they have been doing a pretty good job of cleaning some of the bike paths lately. We also don't really get that much snow. Keep up with the informative videos. I think I was meant to live in the Netherlands.

[@MDevion]

As a Dutchman I lived in Umeå (Sweden) for half a year. That city is very close to the arctic circle and people still use their bikes all year round, even when it was -20. Weather is not an excuse.

[@timisles6935]

The cycling elephant in the room is the tonic of daily exercise adding up to something that takes a huge load off the health system. Cycling is like going to a free gym.

[@georgeg7840]

For almost a decade starting in 2002 I was commuting to work from Wellington near Woodland in Verdun to just past carrefour angrignon about 11 months a year (took public transport in january due to the temperature but not the snow), the round trip was about 11km (not taking the most direct route), this was very doable and often practical, the painted bike lane on Jolicoeur at least gave me some isolation from cars.

[@LetsTakeWalk]

12:14 Almost? No, everyone has a bike. More than one even.

[@tatianatub]

many people that live in villages commute to the city by transit and have a bike at home and a bike in the city

[@klapiroska4714]

It's always great fun to see what kind of arguments people come up with why cycling isn't feasable: -"Netherlands doesn't have real winter like we do". Take a look at Oulu, Finland (if you cannot reasonably visit in person, NJB and BicycleDutch (and couple local youtubers) have made great videos that you can watch). It has world class cycling infrastructure and best winter maintenance in Finland (perhaps best in the world?). People do cycle year round, despite Oulu having a real winter. About 5 months of more than 10 cm of snow, usually peaking at 60-80 cm (and it stays there for about 2 months). Daily average temperature tends to drop below -20C at least once a year, yet people still cycle to school and work. -"Our cities were not designed for bikes". Again, have a look at Oulu. It's by all means a car centric city with a population of about 200 000. If you draw a circle with 5 km radius from the city center, you'll have only about 106 500 people. Still, in 2021 18% of all trips were made on bike (all year average). Sure, winter does reduce the number of people cycling, and the per centage drops to 10%. But that is still more than many places have during the summer. Actually, a car centric design makes it easier to accomodate bikes, as you have more room for bike lanes and snow storage. Proper winter is not really an issue, and since most major cities are located near some water feature (sea / river / lake), a proper winter allows you to create shortcuts across a body of water (for a limited time period during winter).

[@flower_power]

lol, in our not density country side, people still bike to school, work or shop. The problem is not the density. It is the way suburbs are build. In the Netherlands suburbs are build like a village with shops for daily use (supermarket, farmacy, haircutter, dentist, doctor and other shops) schools (primary and sometimes secundairy as well), sports, etc. In this way it is possible to go everywhere by bike. People bike between 5 -10 km. Only for sport or holiday people bike further. If you build suburbs with zoning, you need to go far for shopping or school or sport. And than you take a car in stead of a bike. Weather is no excuse. There is no bad weather, only bad clothing or gear, is the slogan of a outdoor shop in the Netherlands. So true. In the 70's where were also a car-depended country. Because people didn't want more people/childeren dying on the road, they start to protest. The government starts to change the way city's are designed. The Netherlands does not have a war on cars. It is nice to drive in the Netherlands, because bikes and cars are separated. And the streets are mostly designed that you drive more carefully automaticly. In the end no one wants to hit/kill a biker, isn't it?

[@hideouspatje]

Ik zou did in didn't veranderen anders lijkt het of ze protesteren voor meer verkeersdoden....

[@flower_power]

@@hideouspatje oh, ja dat is wel beter 🙂

[@Allan_son]

In my opinion the biggest difference I see between North American suburbs and NL suburbs is spagetti neighbourhoods with no cut-throughs. I know places where the road distance between houses that share a back fence is 500 to 750m. That is complemented by zoning that forbids local shops within residential areas. So there can be no easy introduction to utilitarian cycling, say by biking 200m on a small street to a friend's house or a shop.

[@ChristiaanHW]

yeah, in The Netherlands we have "cul de sac like" neighbourhoods too. but they've added little (cycle) paths between the streets so people walking and cycling can cut trough at several places. and because of this traveling through those neighbourhoods is often faster by bike than by car. and another thing that doesn't get mentioned a lot is the rules we have to protect cyclist. and the rule every new building has to have a dedicated area for storing a couple of bikes, so storing your bike in/next to your residence is easy and protected by law.

[@cynthianm1743]

Wanting bike infrastructure is not a war on cars

[@zivkovicable]

The opposite in fact...Because there are realistic alternatives to the motorcar in the Netherlands, there is less traffic on the roads making driving much easier than in North American cities. Car ownership levels are high, but they're not used for every trip.

[@delftfietser]

Yet the exiatence of The War On Cars and r/FuckCars really doesn't persuade the driver who will lose a lane or parking spot.

[@grantofat6438]

It can be. In Copenhagen there are great forces working on getting cars completely out of the city. Some of the major roads are closed for cars, and there are nowhere to park. Many people park their cars in the suburbs, and then take trains and busses into the city. It is becoming more and more hostile against cars, and you can argue if that is a good or a bad thing.

[@FuckYouTube385]

5:50 “Frankly we live in Canada and never experienced any weather like that” Cries in Vancouver.

[@klusher5556]

Great video! I watch Not Just Bikes and it's nice to see some other channel pointing out mistakes and improvements for better cycling infrastructure. Keep doing what you're doing and let's hope for a better way of living.

[@NeuralNexusHub]

Additionally, if it's about distances, people don't travel from one side of the US to the other, so the idea that "we can't have bike infrastructure because our country is too big" doesn't apply at all. It's like suggesting the Dutch to travel from The Netherlands to central Kazachstan 5 times a week...

[@JelleJT1]

I'd like to add that Denmark is also a good example of a bike friendly country, which I think is mostly overlooked when everybody always looks and points at us Dutchies.

[@michaelzariczniak9810]

Great video, friends! One of the best urbanism/biking videos I've seen in the last year.

[@gemmen98]

i think you hit the nail on the head with the micro mobility lanes. No one would question the rise in scooters as a means of transportation. They suck on the road with cars and on the streets with people walking. if you lumped them in a special area with bikes everyone would be better off.

[@justafan5179]

I think you'd also be surprised to hear just how much "musical chairs" we play here in the U.S. when working or living somewhere. It's all due to the car-centric design, but basically, even in most cities, it's not uncommon for people to live in one city, but work in another, 20, 30 even 40 miles away... and everyone from those cities comes to work in the one they live in. According to the census released by the city I live in... 40% of working age adults, do not work inside city limits (and there is literally nothing outside of city limits) driving from Fond du Lac, to Oshkosh, Appleton, even Milwaukee, Green Bay and Madison... and all of those cities can say the same thing about their residents. The good news, or at least irony, is that cars aren't cheap anymore. A new Toyota Carolla will run you $30,000... and they only get more expensive from there. Gone are the days of cheap, beater-cars, as manufacturers strive to improve profits... it won't be long before nobody will be able to afford cars, and we'll have to do something else. My car is on its last leg, and I bought it new in 2014, for just over 17k... inflation puts that at 22k, but the cheapest ones being sold now are 30k... it's getting ridiculous. Combine that with student debt, and the cost rent or houses... and yeah, lots of things will be changing very soon.

[@wondertwins2222]

Such a good video. My favorite one on this channel so far!!

[@blastdamage]

Living in Montréal, I hear the winter argument all the time. NotJustBikes' video on the city of Oulu in Finland comes in handy in those moments. If a small city in the arctic can do it then why couldn't we? I also recall an older video of yours in which you made an excellent point that I bring up constantly: we avoid driving in the winter because it sucks and it's dangerous, plus maintenance is complicated and expensive; parks and playgrounds aren't really used in the winter; yet nobody argues that we shouldn't have and maintain roads because "winter driving is impractical" and nobody thinks we should just get rid of parks and playgrounds altogether. So why is cycling any different?

[@ClayProof]

Gothenburg Sweden has a very comprehensive bike-road-network while being a pretty hilly city overall.

[@AnotherDuck]

Likewise Stockholm. There are lots of hills here.

[@RealConstructor]

The Netherlands may be a flat country in average, but Florida is a flatter state than The Netherlands is. Second is climate, again Florida has a better climate than The Netherlands has, we have a lot of rain, wind and colder temperatures and Florida has a higher temperatures in the summer and a bit higher humidity. Another item is distance, the average daily commute of Americans is 10 miles, in The Netherlands it is 22 km, both one way. The average American has a shorter commute than the average Dutch employee, yet in The Netherlands almost 15% of people commute on bicycle. Commute per bicycle isn’t a solution for everyone, but in the States a lot of employees can commute by bicycle and hardly anyone does. At least give the average American the option of a bicycle commute by constructing better bike infrastructure. And to add a reaction to the car populist mayor of Ottawa, more bicycle infrastructure means more people on bicycles in your town which results in more space for motor vehicles and by that a better flow of traffic. Half a car lane is a bicycle lane, so one car lane means a two way bicycle path. On a bicycle path are far more bicycles than there are cars on a car lane. Every European car is equal to four bicycles in space they occupy on a road. For the popular trucks in North America it is more like six to eight. So the space is moer efficiently used by bicycles than by cars. If you want to see it, it really is a win-win.

[@MarioFanGamer659]

This reminded me of a comment arguing about the viability of trains in Florida that when I compared Germany with Florida, my opponent claimed that the Northeast Corridor is a much better comparison despite the fact that Germany's density numbers are, in fact, closer to Florida than the NE Corridor.

[@anubizz3]

Then Why Netherlands still have car dependency problem ? unlike county that prioritize on public transport? with tiny city on tiny country where all their biggest city bunch up together in circle, they should have 0.1 car per person.... and yet they have 0.58 ...... while Hong Kong 0.1, Singapore 0.14, Taiwan 0.35 and EVEN the dreaded China 0.22...

[@SpySappingMyKeyboard]

People will argue the weather is a reason to not build cycling infrastructure anywhere. In my city, we have basically the same climate as Amsterdam, yet "people would never bike in the rain".

[@r.williams8349]

excellent video. Keep up the good work!!!

[@5688gamble]

Too hot? Might I suggest trees and green space. Big trees with wide canopies in open spaces and some nice fruit bearing trees appropriate for your climate nearby, buildings provide shade as density goes up, but being shaded by the trees in the heat and being able to grab some fresh fruit when you are out walking around or cycling in the summer would be great! Plant some female trees too, capture some of that pollen that makes being outside in summer unpleasant for many!

[@BartAnderson_writer]

Great video. The biggest impediment to widespread cycling in North America is that the infrastructure is built almost exclusively for cars. Most of the "problems" (like few local stores) are caused by car-centric design. We assume people will drive 10 miles to a shopping mall.

[@SilvaDreams]

That is more of an issue with zoning laws because people didn't want "stores" in their neighborhoods

[@BartAnderson_writer]

@@SilvaDreams, I think the car-centric mindset is to blame. Before cars, shopping and housing were integrated or close by ... at least in towns and cities.

[@kalvaxus]

Have a look at Denmark, I'd say it's the 2nd most bike friendly country after Netherlands. Then also look at Germany, they are quite familiar with bikes but have the challenge of vast land and rural areas.

[@jsrodman]

As San Francisco native, biking to 700 feet every day is work, but the roads are designed to limit steepness. Most people can do it even if it's not the most convenient.

[@drunkensailor112]

It is a very healthy thing to do and it would prevent obesity which is everywhere in the usa

[@soccerdad93446]

I was hoping to hear you use Paris as an example of how fast things can change in 5 years and how much better it now is for cycling. Nice video,

[@co7013]

I would think that in a cold winter climate a compact city with good transit would be ideal.

[@karikling6751]

You can have good transit and good bicycle infrastructure as long as the bike lanes don't run parallel to trolley tracks and aren't full of obstacles that force cyclists onto the trolley tracks.

[@SilvaDreams]

@@karikling6751 And there in lies the issue, the trolley tracks tend to follow the main areas people want to go

[@MrBirdnose]

Transit seems to have a hard time in the winter, too. Buses don't deal with snow well.

[@co7013]

@@MrBirdnose So do cars.

[@MrBirdnose]

@@co7013 True, but they do better than buses. Buses are heavy and the tires they use don't grip well in snow. In Seattle whenever it snowed the bus network completely collapsed. After one snowstorm my biggest problem was finding a driving route home that wasn't blocked by jackknifed articulated buses.

[@sashakimknechtinruprecht]

Oulu in Finland is a brilliant example for a city with harshest climate where lots of people cycle the whole year - even the chilliest winter days. All this is reflected by a well maintained cycling infrastructure, also usable in winter.

[@satansdaughter8487]

Most of the Netherlands is almost completely flat, but not all of it. South Limburg is covered in hills and people still bike there.

[@y.v.l.]

It goes without saying that biking structure should always be adapted to local circumstances! The Netherlands and Denmark may be the most bike friendly countries, but for instance Germany and Austria (countries with hills and snowy weather) have some of the most beautiful country bike routes and they are working on becoming generally bike friendly. It seems to me that the main problem in North America is the slightly hysterical and panicking reaction to biking. People behave as if they are under attack, whereas cars are and always will be useful and needed and they CAN coexist with bikes (as is proven in all abovementioned countries). Fact is that bike friendly city centers and neighbourhoods are far more social, pleasant and safe.

[@nickdentoom1173]

And don't forget that France and Spain are also starting it and Rome also changes to be more bike friendly.

[@j.p.vanbolhuis8678]

Also realise that most cyclists cycle in their neighbourhood (say 20km/13 miles) around their home. There are very few that regularly bike from Montreal to Las Vegas.

[@danielp709]

Your part on bike culture is GOLD! Thank you!

[@eugenetswong]

Hello, from Surrey, BC! It's good to see Canadian voices on this topic. Thank you!

[@JustClaude13]

The problem isn't density, climate or terrain. It's accessibility. When I was a kid travelling by bike was normal for kids because the roads were accessible. Cars were smaller and drivers weren't distracted by phones, entertainment consoles or social media. Nobody texted while driving. Now there are more cars than ever, pickup trucks are larger than the tanks that fought in World War II and people don't pay attention to what goes on outside their climate controlled bubble. For cycling to be successful, we need to rethink how we build roads. Do we really need 12 foot freeway lanes in residential streets? We need to separate bicycle traffic from car traffic as much as possible, and reduce the conflict points between the two modes of transportation. We have separate sidewalks for a reason, and the same reason applies to bikes. And no, a sharrow on a narrow 40 mph street isn't "infrastructure." It's humor. That's why we laugh at it.

[@sanderdeboer6034]

But cycling is more prevalent in Europe anyway. Yes, the Netherlands is the biking country in Europe and even in the world. However even in hilly Norway and in particular Oslo, biking is popular. Or what about Germany, which has real cold winters with a lot of snow. And yet again, biking is done often. And the Netherlands did have severe winters, otherwise the ‘elfstedentocht’ would never have occurred at all. The last decade we have had very mild winters, mostly caused by climate change. But I am old enough to have seen very cold winters with a lot of snow. And the Netherlands is not flat all the way, the province of Limburg is much more hilly and still biking is very common.

[@AnotherDuck]

Yeah, biking is very common in Fennoscandia, which is not a stranger to cold winters and snow. The entire Norway and cities like Stockholm and Gothenburg are much more hilly than almost all of North America.

[@sanderdeboer6034]

@@AnotherDuck Yes, agreed. I have visited almost every part of Scandinavia in my live, and have stayed at mostly Swedish families in Malmo, Goteborg and Stockholm. They all had bikes, even though they lived in suburbs that were vey hilly.

[@hinatas.studies]

i moved to the netherlands this year and seeing my city in these videos is so special, i really do love it here

[@stefanvanderwoude]

as a dutch guy i was on holiday in Denver last january, bought myself a bike there and had lots of cycling adventures on the Denver roads!

[@rulifaller8474]

Actually most Dutch people DO follow the Tour de France😂. But in general it is true that cycling is considered much more as a way of getting around rather than a sport. Very few people ever ride in actual bike races or even know people who do. Yet everyone uses their bike to get around. It is a very interesting difference actually with our neighbors in Belgium. There, cycling as a sport is almost like a religion, Belgian athletes winning bike races is very important for the national identity, but cycling as a way of getting around is less popular.

[@drunkensailor112]

The sport of cycling is also huge in the South of the netherlands. Cycling is very much a catholic sport

[@Rebster]

I am not sure that most Dutch people follow the Tour de France. Nobody I know follows it, maybe at best knows something from the news they picked up. Maybe I am unique, but I don't think most follow it.

[@thomasaivaliotis7081]

Yeah ''most'' is a overstatement. Definitely popular but doesn't come close to other sports like football.

[@drunkensailor112]

@@thomasaivaliotis7081 only football is more popular and perhaps for the moment formula one

[@thomasaivaliotis7081]

@@drunkensailor112 Formula one and ice skating are apperently both more popular. Cycling is 4th with about 12% of responders saying they watch it from a study i found.

[@leonpaelinck]

Belgian here, we like to use "incompetent politicians" as excuses

[@dutchman7623]

Wait until you see their density in the US!

[@grantofat6438]

It's always good to have an excuse, especially if you can blame someone else.

[@MartOosterhoff]

I just moved from Utrecht to Haarlem for my studies, so seeing the couple of clips from Utrecht was kind of fun. :) and even a spot i cycled everyday to get to school and back at 9:58

[@Noetoe06]

Watching this on a bike in Amsterdam. Good video