I Went to an Anti-Bike-Lane Revolt And Here’s What I Learned

[@speraomarco]

"it increases my trip from 0.7 to 2km" Why on earth would you even drive for a 700 metre trip?

[@desposyy]

As someone who primarily rides and has limited access to a car. Sometimes it isn't the journey but it's the load or the passenger etc. but the general point of people driving distances that it's easier to walk drives me mad as well

[@polobik4231]

for 2km I won't even bother using my bike lol

[@MikeBrown-dk7or]

Car addiction, nothing more.

[@bjkaiser85]

@@MikeBrown-dk7orI apparently have neighbours like that in Germany. One morning I was on the way to the next bakery by bike (about 500m). And someone on the other side of the street was driving out of his driveway without looking in both directions. Had I not stopped, even though I had right of way, he’d have had me on hood. Guess where I met that oblivious carbrain again? At the bakery. I was fuming inside.

[@Buddie21341255612351]

Ill sure take my car to a 700m trip to the grocery store with two kids in diapers, summer or winter. You guys really think you're making the world better by riding a pedal bike?

[@speedydog45]

Saying that you are afraid a cyclist could hit children and just ignoring a child potentially getting hit by a SUV is crazy

[@dawnelder9046]

People in cars follow rules. In Ontario, people on bikes do not think rules apply to them. Ever. Arrogant beyond belief.

[@jooot_6850]

@@dawnelder9046Doesn't matter. A rule-following SUV may only hit someone 1 out of 1,000 times. But when they do hit them, they die. A bike could hit someone 1 out of 10 times and NEVER would there be the same level of injury. Also, your argument is moot, because people are assholes and will regularly run red lights, fail to yield, and sometimes flat-out fail to see pedestrians.

[@raquelesteves3334]

​@dawnelder9046 I walk in a suburb, and no cars do not follow the rules in Ontario, people turn right without seeing if someone is crossing, will park blocking the sidewalk all the time, not stop for pedestrians on crosswalks. Like I've been almost ran over by way more cars than bikes, not only that, but I'm 167 cm tall, and a lot of trucks and SUVs cannot even see me, or if they hit me they would just straight up kill me, no matter the speed

[@TheMixCurator]

​@@dawnelder9046 You'd prefer to be hit by a car at 30mph, or a cyclist going 12mph? You know that the likelihood of severe injuries drops significantly if you reduce urban vehicle speeds from 30 to 20mph?

[@MorganHyde-ie5ru]

Exactly. Even putting aside, you know, little things like size, weight, and speed, on top of that SUVs have much lower visibility than cyclists. These people are crazy.

[@isimerias]

“This bike path is ageist and ableist” is absolutely beyond satire

[@elizabethhenning778]

As if it's not "ageist" to require drivers to pass vision and reaction tests

[@TheSegert]

What difference does that make a car? If youre too old. You cant drive. And if you are disabled. You cant drive too. So what is the argument there? I dont get it.

[@mremumerm]

was interesting as my Dad lost his driver's license at 80, but is still able to use his Bixi.

[@tommyshanks4198]

@@TheSegert If you are unable to drive or bike, you are still old enough to be driven around. The problem is almost always how to get into and out of transportation, when urban planners did not consider mobility challenged/visually impaired passengers. - Walking across live lanes to get to a middle island on the street for a bus? - Having no drop off spot cause of badly planned bike lanes? They actually take that sort of thing into account in Amsterdam. Montréal? Not so much. Heck, you would think they would prioritize snow clearing of sidewalks and residential streets around schools. Nope

[@polishtheday]

@@tommyshanks4198I live on a street with a primary school at the the end of the block. Our sidewalks are always cleared first. The pedestrian/bike paths are cleared too. Montreal could definitely do more to help the visually impaired and others with disabilities. One way to start is to elect these people to the city and municipal councils. It worked in Vancouver, especially after they elected visually impaired city councillor and a quadriplegic mayor.

[@FoobAr-p8q]

Gotta love how they turn "this is a mild inconvenience to me" into "this is a human rights violation"

[@notaspeck6104]

That’s literally the way these people go about their lives and politics. I wish they had to spend a month in a country which actually does take away their basic rights.

[@fulcrum1575]

This is how woke language is co-opted. You can genuinely take any issue ever and make it a human rights issue with the right word salads.

[@maxalaintwo3578]

@@fulcrum1575this is more politics than you think

[@FinnHBs]

couldn't have put that better in words, you're quite right :)

[@jen6315]

The victim mentality exposed who they voted for 100 percent

[@Nyah86Production]

As an European this feels utterly distopian to me.

[@pinkfloydhomer]

Like an episode of Black Mirror

[@KevinRandles]

As an American, I am honestly jealous of y'all over there lol

[@fabianelsen3716]

Honestly I'm tired of fellow Europeans pretending it's that much better here. Sure we got the Netherlands and I love biking there but the vast majority of Europe is still a complete desaster in terms of bike infrastructure. Europe isn't all just the Netherlands or Denmark.

[@pinkfloydhomer]

@@fabianelsen3716 I would much rather bike in Germany, France, Spain, Italy etc than in America.

[@KevinRandles]

@@fabianelsen3716 and yeah, I get that too, but here in the US, if you’re not in an absolutely massive city, it’s hardly anywhere else, and that sucks

[@atomatopia1]

“Not everyone can travel by [transportation mode]” goes both ways, my friend. Not everyone can travel by car either

[@hollylockhart9423]

​@@Not.a.bird.Personis this sarcasm? Montreal plows a network of main bike lanes and does have a lot of winter cycling. Although I believe the bike share "bixbi bikes" are put away in the winter.

[@The_Monolith]

@@Not.a.bird.Person Montreal winters ain't that bad anymore. Snowy/icy weather only lasts 2-3 months nowadays. Ice and snow is non-issue on city streets, It's the sidewalks that are slippery. -30 celcius? Only if you look at the wind chill temperature and even then, it's quite a rare occurrence (a few times per year at most). Winter biking is normal in many northern cities of Europe. It will soon be the same in Montreal.

[@dbclass4075]

​@@Not.a.bird.PersonAnd yet, Oslo has no problem with their winters. Besides, if the snow is bad enough for bicycles to get stuck, it wouldn't be recommended to drive at that point either.

[@Ryan-093]

​@@Not.a.bird.Personsize of a country has nothing to do when talking about transportion inside of a single city.

[@The_Monolith]

@@Not.a.bird.Person Nobody's here advocating to replace highway lanes with bike paths. We're here talking about regular streets within densely populated cities like Montreal. NDG, the neighborhood in this video, is very close to the downtown core of Montreal. It's not some small suburb in the middle of nowhere, it's right in the middle of the second biggest metropolitan area in Canada (>4.4 million people). There are many European countries with a smaller population than this. Density isn't an issue. Neither is the weather. The Baltic and Nordic countries of Europe are also quite cold and it doesn't stop their people from biking during the winter. Just like with your car, you can change the tires of your bike to winter tires or all-weather tires. Bixi, the bike-sharing service in Montreal, offers bikes with studded tires and anti-slip pedals during the winter season. Also, during a severe winter storm, you can be 100% sure it will be way easier to find a spot for your bike than for your car.

[@KarlSnarks]

The idea that bike-lanes endanger children more than a street with big metal vehicles that can go incredibly fast, is wild.

[@jodi183]

Right?! Where I live in SF Bay Area California, which has areas of bike friendly pathways but needs much more, a 7 year old who was on a bicycle with her Dad was killed one Saturday morning when a driver swerved the car into the (non-protected) bike lane and hit the bicycle knocking the child off the bike and killing that child. Had there been a protected bike lane, the child would still be alive today and that driver wouldn't be hit with criminal charges (manslaughter) and possible guilt and anguish for killing a young girl.

[@KarlSnarks]

@@jodi183 poor kid and parents, that's f*ked up. Back in the post-war era here in the Netherlands when the state wanted to go the American way, there was also an increase in child deaths because kids were still used to playing in the streets mostly unbothered. Part of the reason we now have good biking infrastructure and such is a protest movement in the 60's-80's that often used the slogan "stop child murder".

[@alexrogers777]

There have been multiple studies showing that the Boomer generation has much higher levels of lead in their blood. Lead is known to lower IQ and interfere with cognitive ability.

[@Dy5n0m1a]

Theres an old Al Murray joke about paranoid parents having to drive their kids to school, to stop them being knocked over by all the parents driving their kids to school. A kind of circular thinking there!

[@andyjackson3414]

@@jodi183 Painted curb and gutter bike lanes are meant to benefit motorists and are not for the safety of cyclists. I avoid them on my e-bike. And I fear so-called protected bike lanes will add a little to the safety but at the cost of much inconvenience for bikers. I feel much safer dealing with the vehicle traffic on the street by being visible, having visibility, and having more options for avoiding hazards. Being able to maintain 22 mph with little effort is a game-changer for bike riding. And I use a mirror mounted on my bike.

[@mattdeblassmusic]

When I worked as a reporter I came across the acronym "CAVE." For "Citizens Against Virtually Everything."

[@GreenSun815]

this joke works well in Bilingual Montreal. these people indeed are caves 🤣

[@DM-kv9kj]

People used to protest things like the fact women weren't allowed to vote...or protesting wars,genocides, people literally dying from horrendous working conditions etc. The internet now has given every single person this grand delusion that they have a voice, so everyone's just yelling and at each other's throats with a little help from corporate and political social engineering/opinioneering with how social media is run, and how the modern internet-centric media just saturates everyone constantly with a thousand different forms of manipulation, propaganda and disinformation.

[@chaonis24601]

I've heard BANANA before; build absolutely nothing anywhete near anyone

[@Zjac2748]

In canadian french, from Quebec, “cave” means “being dumb” lol

[@camdensimon1935]

This goes to show the common stupidity of people. Basically these people don't want any change or anything they're not using

[@TheCell-vx3pk]

"Children are endangered by people that ride on a small frame of aluminium and two thin wheels! Let's instead push for more 2 ton blocks of steel with limited visibility in either direction!"

[@TheGoodContent37]

Do bikes brake instantly like cars?

[@yolth]

​@TheGoodContent37 Yes they do.

[@jakewest7647]

@@TheGoodContent37how do you not know this?

[@Hugh.Manatee]

@@TheGoodContent37 What car brakes instantly? Driving at 30 km/h the average driver will have traveled 8 m before even responding by hitting the break and the car than travels another 5 before coming to a full stop. At 50 km/h that is 14 meters for reaction speeds and another 12 to make a full stop. A bike with well maintained brakes going 15 km/h can stop in 6 or 7 meters including reaction time, or 10 when going 20 km/h I will give you that cars require regular check ups, which include checking the brakes, and not all bike owners change their brakes when they start getting worn down, but that's because 1 to 2 tons of steel going 50 km/h kills people, while a 80 to 160 kg cyclist going 20 km/h is very unlikely to cause serious injury. I tried to find some statistics, but I even have a hard time finding even a single lethal traffic accident in Canada that didn't involve at least one motor vehicle. I'm sure there must be some, but 99% of all traffic related deaths are from a car, truck or motorcycle hitting something.

[@theversatilehunter3651]

@@Hugh.Manatee I would wager much more like 99.9% or even more

[@elizabethdavis1696]

Making school districts accessible for children to cycle to school should be a priority

[@cassielfsw3815]

I grew up in a school district where I could walk to school all the way from K-12. It absolutely boggles my mind that there are schools that are designed to be impossible to walk or bike to, and that parents think this is a good thing.

[@m.e.3862]

Narrowing the street also slows down traffic so that's a plus in a school zone. It also probably drives these people nuts when they see cyclists ride past them unimpeded by traffic.

[@lalodaniels1388]

George Carlin was right, boomers are selfish people.

[@AMPProf]

Bet they want the kids to Ride in a circle in the paths around the schools. Like a gym class thing.. But Really sounds like It's more then bikes Almost like the need help and hugs

[@erictang2691]

I second this, I remember back in elementary school it wasn't until the seventh grade that I started to be more observant and see that the same kids would always bike past me while I walked to school and wow, there's a bike rack at the front entrance of my school LOL. After that, biking became my main mode of transportation, but if there had been clear cycling infrastructure in my neighbourhood, I may have started biking sooner (and make things safer). Now that I'm older, I've realize how biking is seen as a recreational activity and not a mode of transportation in most North American neighbourhoods which is sad

[@Soepsliert]

Assuming that old people cannot use a bicycle is by itself pretty ageist. Here in the Netherlands I frequently see a large portion of all cyclists in some areas being seniors.

[@Wolf-ln1ml]

Heh, my ~72 year old boss (trucking company here in northern Germany) drives to the company's location every Saturday for various reasons (normal business is only during the week, but he still does some stuff on Saturdays) and is currently under doctor's orders to use his bicycle for those Saturday trips 😄😊 So much for that "old people cannot use a bicycle" idiocy... 🤪

[@donnikthejedi2222]

Most ppl suicidal enough to use the German Bicycle infrastructure are old ppl here. I cycle too but i walk most places because with my bicycle I'm forced to use the same roads as East-Germans that have a Mindset similar to those ppl in the Church(and sadly a bunch of Nazis as well) regardless of Age but like to "teach lessons" by almost murdering you with their car. All the fun stuff like Passing to close, passing then Brake checking, swerving towards you and of course completely ignoring you etc. I have my Bike for a few months now and I can count on one hand the ppl that even acknowledged my existence and paid proper attention to me ( hings like actually making Space for me in narrow points where I by law would have right of way, most ppl just drive straight at you with a slightly Braindead expression and then complain when you stand in front of them with nowhere to go)

[@zwenkwiel816]

Especially now with e bikes. Those old timers are fast AF XD

[@AAAAAA-qs1bv]

Every summer here (Finland) I play the game of how long it takes until I see an old man driving a bike around without a shirt. You would be surprised by how often that happens.

[@justseffstuff3308]

Maybe if more people used bicycles, they'd be able to exercise enough to maintain their mobility at older ages.

[@marius.orehovschi]

I love how you filmed drivers not stopping for the stop sign... right in front of the church where they held the anti-bike lane meeting!

[@Zinovad]

13:35 Indeed

[@micheltremblay4774]

And you see after a woman going through the stop sign, hardly slowing down.

[@Alex-od7nl]

Anti-bike and anti-pedestrian sentiment is entirely based on incorrect presumption that roads are the exclusive domain of motorists. This is why some motorists get triggered when they see bicycles on the road. They view them as trespassers. Meetings like this are basically an extension of road rage, where motorists are unable to comprehend that the reason they are stuck in traffic is because there are too many cars on the road---and not because of bicycles.

[@greevar]

They're stuck on the incorrect assumption that cars are the _one and only_ solution to transportation. Walking is impossible, because everywhere they want to go is too far to walk. Bikes are seen as "toys" for children or a sport that has no real practical purpose outside of recreation. Buses are too few and inconsistent. Therefore, anything that impedes the use of their car is an assault on their mobility.

[@iamtequilalc]

@@user-iw5mp5th6d cyclists and pedestrians are taxed the same as motorists for road maintenance. With you know, city/local, property, school, etcetera taxes. In fact, cyclists do less damage to the roads than motorists do.

[@SkipGole]

Yes, great point. Also, people have a difficult time understanding any change as a possibility. When it does happen, they usually come up with uncritical judgements. There’s a major road where I live, that planners proposed bike lanes be installed. The storeowners protested it and defeated it. Fact: I never go to a store there, a bakery, because it’s too dangerous to get there by bike. So, they’ve actually lost a customer.

[@ralf4640]

@@user-iw5mp5th6d "It's too cheap", what's that for an argument? Just because Car's are expensive, it's not the cyclists fault.

[@ChristopherRayMiller]

Response: “Anti-bike and anti-pedestrian sentiment is entirely based on incorrect assumption that roads are the exclusive domain of motorists.” To which you: “No, but YEAH!!! If they use OUR roads they should be taxed just like motorists”💭!!!💭 Oh, BTW, road infrastructure comes out of the pockets of *every taxpayer*. Non-drivers are forced to pay for infrastructure catering to motorists’ desires and expectations while having to deal with inadequate non-motoring-centred infrastructure like all-ages appropriate safe cycling infrastructure. Case closed.

[@christafranken9170]

I am disabled. Outside of the house, I use either my wheelchair or my handbike. Things that reduce my mobility are construction sites where accessibility wasn´t part of the consideration when providing alternate routes, bins on sidewalks of busy streets, greenery next to sidewalks that is growing over de sidewalk making it too narrow, lack of transit options, lack of short routes without busy trafic I can´t navigate when I have brain fog. For routes that are too long, not accessible enough and don´t have transit options, I need to arrange someone to drive me. Bike lanes tend to make my life a lot less complicated.

[@ronaldderooij1774]

I am a disabled Dutchie. I cannot walk more than 200 m and I cannot ride a bicycle anymore. I need a car. But that does not mean I am against cycle paths. Both should be possible. Car and cyclists. I used to cycle everything within the city limits (unless I had to carry a heavy or voluminous load). Now I can't anymore, I am very happy with the parking spaces and roads for cars. You get my point, real freedom is that the infrastructure is able to facilitate both driving and cycling.

[@tommyshanks4198]

@@ronaldderooij1774 we are all envious of infrastructure there. Here in North America, they paint lines on a road shared with trucks and call it a bike lane. Safe it is not.

[@joelv4495]

It's flabbergasting how the people crying "It's Ableist!" have no clue about the experiences of the people they are purportedly advocating for.

[@michaelmuncy3593]

I was riding the American River trail in Sacramento, CA a while back and meet a group of Russian men who had lost their legs in combat and were riding 3-wheeled hand bikes. I was amazed at their power and speed. It was so cool to ride with them - even though they left me in the dust!

[@bootmii98]

@@ronaldderooij1774 Get a microcar. I've heard you can drive it in bike lanes with the right paperwork.

[@Arashmickey]

I used to be a proponent of space exploration, until a passing astronaut flipped me the bird. Now I'm filing an injunction against NASA.

[@osurpless]

Way to follow through!

[@jakobbauz]

Unbelievable. Astronauts really are the worst!!!

[@WaylandYT]

When they tell stories like that I always have to wonder about the context like just maybe they gave her a one finger salute because she was obstructing a designated bike path? We will never know.

[@rogergeyer9851]

Yes. It was like a whiny 8 year old went to an adult meeting. The old "someone misbehaved (if you can believe my claim)", so we should ban ALL activity of that nature.

[@TheUnojoe2]

Space junk

[@xx.isabella]

"this bike path is ableist" ironically enough, i cant drive due to my disability lol

[@mohamedbelbaali659]

What disability lets you bike but not drive ?genuinely curious

[@peterino2]

@@mohamedbelbaali659 seizures i think. you cant drive because it may be catastrophic, but people with seizures can and do ride bikes

[@lacdirk]

@@mohamedbelbaali659 Tons of disabilities are compatible with using a trike, i.e. a three-wheel bike, which is stable and can be stopped at any point in time. The same person can usually drive a car, but a car can not just be stopped just anywhere, at any time. It also can't be driven as slowly, and the consequences of making a mistake are much, much more severe.

[@mohamedbelbaali659]

@@peterino2 ye I imagine that you would prob endanger a lot of people if you had a seizure while driving. Still having a seizure while biking is definitly going to make you crash at high speeds on concrete but if u see it coming its easier to disengage a bike than a car. Thanks for the anwser peterino2

[@xx.isabella]

@@mohamedbelbaali659 i have non-epileptic seizures

[@Nick-kz6dg]

“I love bike paths, this one is wrong” He forgot to say “because it goes through my neighbourhood”

[@johnmccrossan9376]

Yes and what's wrong with that? I love lakes and forests but I don't want one getting in the way of my daily life, they're in parks for a good reason.

[@RomanBelisarius]

​@@johnmccrossan9376 NIMBY. And even then bike paths in civilization do make sense. To the point of nature; green urban parks exist and do improve the city's scenery and livelihood.

[@johnmccrossan9376]

@@RomanBelisarius first off, NIMBY is a derogatory term for somebody who opposes outside plans for their local area, it's not something to be ashamed of in any way. Second off I agree with you, parks and urban green spaces play a crucial role in everyone's quality of life, that said if you were going to close down half the city's well used industrial district to build a park there it would still be a bad idea. Bike paths have their place, it's just not in the space where cars rightly belong or where residents don't want them.

[@RomanBelisarius]

@@johnmccrossan9376 It's not derogatory when a lot of times these people act that way; for example a lot of liberal suburbanites and wealthy urbanites (pretend to) support good public transportation as a general idea, then most of them jerk and protest when public transportation routes or infrastructure *has* to go through their local area, or one of many local areas for that matter. You're making a mountain out of a molehill on equating halving a city's industrial output for a park to bike paths taking some space from cars. The space where "cars rightly belong" have been a relatively new concept in the past century; where they also took it from what was once "where bikes, slow carriages, and pedestrians rightly belong/used" in the start of the previous century. It's a vacuous justification.

[@janelantestaverde2018]

​@@johnmccrossan9376The point is, they didn't say that part. They paint it as if these lanes were a problem in general, when in reality, all they care about is themselves. That aside, the comparison of bike lanes and lakes/forests does not really work too well because one is meant to get people from point a to point b and the others _are_ the point b.

[@LuizAlexPhoenix]

Wait, they said that bikes are a danger to children? Not parked cars blocking the view of crosswalks? Not kids having to bike amongst cars? Not the huge SUVs? That is insane.

[@geofflepper3207]

The mass of cars showing up at schools to pick up kids at the end of the school day are a huge danger to children and to other pedestrians and even to other drivers when those cars are effectively double parked. The area around schools is much more dangerous now than it was in the 1960s because of the vast number of parents choosing to drive to the school to pick up their children. Probably they should ban people from parking within 100 metres of a school to drop off or pick up a child. Those parents who feel that they must drive to their children's school can walk that 100 metres with their child if they want.

[@sukotu23]

These people are practically brain dead NPCs.

[@angie99656]

They literally just say whatever they think will work for them. There is no logic.

[@andrewcook_]

Bigger car = safer... For me, not for thee. Oh, physics and rollovers? But big car = safer + American + ratiod lol

[@KindredBrujah]

@@geofflepper3207 We have those areas preventing parking in front of a school in the UK and are reasonably assertive in enforcing it. Doesn't help for other activities, like after school clubs (away from school) and so on. There's a karate place near me and the parents are pretty much abandoning their cars at the roadside (double yellow lines - no stopping at any time) for drop-off and pick-up, making it much less safe for everyone, including their own children when crossing the road to get to the car.

[@tomselek1000]

That saying, “When you're accustomed to privilege, equality feels like oppression" strongly applies to this. Changes for mobility options other than cars will happen in time because they are better for more people.

[@noldo3837]

It's simply demented entitled boomers and their mob mentality - our way, no discussion, be part of the crowd, do as you were told, and dare you be anyhow different - religion, skin colour, music, cloth, relations, hair color - they will crucify you as a witch and heretic.

[@1stdragon123]

Except often these bike paths often make things better for everyone. They keep bikes out of roads for cars and off sidewalks were pedestrians are and were children play. This is just "change is bad"

[@wildfire9280]

@@1stdragon123 If it were change adding another lane favoring cars I doubt there’d be the same opposition.

[@soxpuff]

Well said.

[@mr.boomguy]

I heard that saying not Not Just Bikes first 😃

[@rickwrites2612]

As an disabled American who uses a rollator walker and sometimes a wheelchair, my experience is that bike paths INCREASE my accessibility. I absolutely use them when the sidewalk is too crumbling /bumpy (80% the government doesn't fix it and 20% cobblestones, which I understand the need to preserve because of history). If it was not for bike lanes I'd be forced to walker out into the street alot. The bicyclists are very cool about going around me. They can see me and I move slow and predictably. When its possible for me to anticipate them I move to the side. I've never had a problem on bike lanes.

[@royisabau5]

i do the same on foot sometimes because some of these sidewalks are gnarly, between cracks and chips, missing pads, or overgrown root bumps, couldn’t even imagine the type of wheelchair you’d need to handle all that. maybe an atv

[@transitcaptain]

From Not Just Bikes “car drivers suddenly really care about the things their cars emit only when they’re not allowed to drive wherever they want whenever they want and as fast as they want” Edit: This blew up in a day

[@JsnHendrik]

Someone doesn't understand efficiency.

[@wetsock6334]

​@@JsnHendrik Ah yes, because cars are so efficient. They're bulky, unsafe, dirty, and expensive, but god forbid the city install a speed bump when too many people die at an intersection; that would make my car less efficient!

[@unknown6390]

​​@@JsnHendrikOne day you'll learn that efficiency is one of the least important virtues of design in every field, if not outright irrelevant. If it saves money people are going to trick you into thinking it's the most important thing. Did they do it already?

[@knarf_on_a_bike]

Yeah. "I'm so concerned about the extra CO2 from extra driving distances caused by bike lanes," says the SUV driver. . .😅

[@1224chrisng]

​@@JsnHendrik Least of all, you. In what world does a 1 ton vehicle with the cross section of a bedsheet have less drag and rolling resistance than a bike? In what world is a car that's the size of a room that costs more than your salary be cheaper and more compact than a bike? By all metrics, cars are less efficient

[@CannedFishFiles]

"I'm a biker" is a dead giveaway someone is anti-cycling. They do this all the time.

[@olska9498]

"I do in fact have black friends. But..."

[@AnnOminous7]

Some of my best friends are cyclists... One critic, at another event, introduced themselves by saying, "I have eleven bikes."

[@Life_as_Game]

Ask them how many trips they made by bike in the month, and to where. These people haven't biked since 1972.

[@dwc1964]

"avid cyclist" - drives his mountain bike on the rack on his SUV to a trailhead surrounded by a big parking lot on the weekends; would never consider riding to work, or the store, or anywhere else local & practical

[@davidmarsh3104]

I am not sure I agree with this. For over 20 years I have cycled > 5000km per year in a non-recreational way (i.e. commuting, errands, etc.) and in my community almost everything that they do to encourage bicycling seems to be designed by people who don't cycle or benefits only recreational users (which doesn't actually get cars off the roads). I consistently avoid routes they have changed to "help" cyclists because it has generally made it worse. There may be communities in which it is better done, but definitely not in mine.

[@bryced7126]

Somehow they think that a 2 ton vehicle capable of moving 100 mph is safer than a 200 lb. vehicle capable of moving 20 mph

[@maythesciencebewithyou]

20 lb

[@BenjaminSmith2]

​@@maythesciencebewithyourider+bicycle system weight would be approximately 200 lbs. 20 lbs doesn't include the engine.

[@doris41236]

That's an ebike, not an eighty lbs. kid on a 20lbs. bicycle

[@carpediem44]

​​@@doris41236My ebike is 65 lbs.

[@christophesiewecke9208]

Safer for *themselves*. Typical selfish myopic boomer perspectives... 🙄

[@dawnpaap7704]

The Hasidic Jewish community here in NYC tried to pull the same thing when the city started adding bike lanes for cycling commuters. They even went as far as removing the painted bike lanes, completely determined to stop bikers, as well as constantly double parking in the bike lanes to frustrate bikers. At one point a group of cyclists would go out in the middle of the night repeatedly to repaint the bike lanes - so it was maddening to see them taken away over & over - BECAUSE it was so unsafe without them. Eventually the cyclists won and the naysayers had to learn to live with the fact that bike lanes are essential to our neighborhoods.

[@launchpending]

Hey cool it with the anti-Semitic remarks

[@NotevenTony]

It’s not anti semitism to critique one particular group of Jews bad behavior in one particular area. It is antisemitism to suggest that “the Jews” as a collective are up to some kind of conspiracy to harm “white people”

[@ginomoujik8488]

@@launchpending But can you blame him? :)

[@Michelle-bn1fu]

Well Hassidic Jews are anti everyone else.

[@mara3842]

Wait was it also related to that bike lane when people went out for a jog in the nude to protest? Because I think the Hasidic folks also didn’t want any “indecently clothed” joggers running through the neighborhood or something along those lines.

[@kimrice394]

Elderly who can no longer drive but live independently love the bike lanes for mobility scooters.

[@MorganHyde-ie5ru]

And exercise is so crucial to staying healthy as you age. The people in tjis video are crazy.

[@stevezelaznik5872]

In Florida where my grandma is, losing your driver’s license is social death. There aren’t even sidewalks. When I get old, god willing, it will be in a tiny condo in the center of town where I can walk to the local store with my walker, and maybe use one of those 3 wheeled cruisers in a dedicated bike lane.

[@jeannettelee2806]

I rather get hit by a bike than a truck, suv, a driverless Tesla etc.

[@CatNibbles]

​@stevezelaznik5872 try moving to a state that is committing sopuku

[@frankdoyle8128]

It ain't for your scooters

[@shayne_has_landed2511]

As a disabled person who relies on mobilty aids, these people’s perspective is dangerous to my mobile freedom. Disabled people want better infrastructure. We want positive changes like bike lanes.

[@RedbadvanRijn-ft3vv]

People like these,reacting like i did back in the 90s in the Netherlands. Its an learning curve,whit some moments of shame

[@melissafonteny5538]

technically, isn't bike lane a better option for people in a wheelchair ? i know most of the time sidewalk aren't really that flat and can have obstacles

[@allmyducksinarow]

It's crazy to see the people in this video pretending to give a single shite about disabled people so they can justify driving their 2 ton vehicles 0.7km.

[@m.r.6264]

@@melissafonteny5538making bike lanes or sidewalks that are continuous, where they don’t dip down to street level, would go a great deal in helping everyone be able to move. More specifically anyone riding a mobility scooter, walking with a cane, etc. basically make the 2+ ton vehicle going over a “speed bump” so that everyone traveling outside of a vehicle has better/safer infrastructure

[@chregig7967]

The thing is, they don't actually care about you, they just say they do because they think it strengthens their argument

[@chasm6091]

I HATE the argument about ableism. People with disabilities have different needs!! I have epilepsy, and sometimes I’ve lost my license while I was adjusting my medication. In my case, prioritizing cars over bike lanes would remove the form of transit that is always available to me. Does that mean it’s also ableist to remove bike lanes, because I, a disabled person, would be inconvenienced? I wish these jerks would stop using disabled people as a weapon in this fight, because it’s clear they don’t value the full range of disabled people’s experiences.

[@theepimountainbiker6551]

Me too!!!!!! I bike everywhere its the only safe way for me to get around. Driving is so difficult with epilepsy, been going through it almost 30 years. I’d like to hear these peoples opinions if they would rather me have a seizure on the road or in a bike lane! Glad Im able to bike on sidewalks cause aint no way Im biking on the road

[@user-gu9yq5sj7c]

And then if a epileptic person had a seizure while driving and got a car accident those car people would just blame the epileptic person and say they shouldn't be driving. They just dictate individual action like that and regurgitate their ignorance. They don't think further how those disabled people can travel then if they can't drive like they told them. And they still fight against non-car infrastructure. It's like how many Americans just double down on individual responsibility and harsher punishment on drinking and driving. Watch Yet Another Urbanist on how in America many times there isn't non-car transportation around bars. Many bars have a parking lot.

[@LarsaXL]

They don't value anything other than their own comfort and will use any argument they can to rationalize it.

[@byronspencer8101]

Yeah I am 100 percent confident they don't make any other arguments to include disabled people in any other context.

[@Sancarn]

Any decision that prioritises one class of people is ableist, is the point. Yes removing bike lanes would also be ableist, intentional or otherwise, though maybe it would be better to call it a trade-off.

[@ryanpeters1005]

As a rural American who plans on staying rural for the sake of my career, I find it crazy how many people in cities want to drive cars to work. City driving is awful.

[@CynicalCopycat]

"Bike lines are agesit and ableist" last week I saw an old man with a cane ride a bike. The assumption that old and disabled people can't ride bikes is asinine.

[@sams247]

My neighbours (Jeanne and Jacques, yes Europe) are 83 and 86 respectively and ride their bikes almost every day. Jeanne hurt her hip recently and has trouble getting on her bike. So she bought a bike with a lower step-in and still rides frequently. (And yes, they also have a car.)

[@icecoldnut5152]

It would definitely be better to make them cough up several thousand dollars for a car

[@CheesyBigMac1]

If only there was an activity that would allow you to keep your mind and body in good working order while also getting you where you need to go!

[@azharp9391]

You know, if anything, it'd be more dangerous to let seniors ride motor vehicles. Slower reaction time, impaired hearing and sight, less dexterity, among other things could cost them a potentially fatal accident, as opposed to just tripping on a bike

[@nanskiboutski243]

That assumption is also extremely ageist 🙃😉🤣😂

[@andrewtallin5329]

If you’re 0.7 km from the store why are you driving there in the first place.

[@drdewott9154]

Buddy I've known families that drive just 100 meters to the grocery store. Even as I've proven to them several times that it's literally faster to walk. And yet they still do it because they don't want to carry groceries for 100 meters, only for the little bit from the store to their car and from their car to their front door.

[@mfbfreak]

@@drdewott9154 People who live that close here, take the full shopping trolly home and then bring it back again. I've also seen shopping trolleys sitting outside people's homes that they take back to the store as their personal trolley at the next shopping trip, but you're not really supposed to do that...

[@RamonInNZ]

@@drdewott9154 yeah funny that they have enough money for a car associated trip and not for a wheels basket/trolley... oh that's right doesn't look cool using old people stuff, flipping muppets!!!

[@elaineb7065]

@@drdewott9154 They should start seeing the walks as cardio & the carrying of groceries as weightlifting. "Do you even lift bro???" I lift alright, I lift my shopping bags full of bottles, cans, & frozen goods for ten to fifteen minutes (shop to bus stop, bus stop to home) Cheaper than a gym membership, & saves time trying to find THAT parking spot

[@ThootenTootinTabootin]

Exactly. I live 2 miles from work and a grocery store. I don't even own a car. I sold it for an escooter and have absolutely zero regrets. I've got over 2200 miles on my scooter. A cars just doesn't make sense in my situation

[@Blorp_]

They’re acting like the entire road has been replaced by bike lanes. There are now two safe options for transport instead of only one

[@johnmccrossan9376]

More space has been given to cycling than to driving. How could that possibly be a reasonable use of space given the size differences between cars and bikes? You can cycle on the road, you can cycle on the pavement, you can't drive on either bike lanes or pavements and this is not to mention the difficulty parking, you can't exactly pick up a Suzuki and take it with you like you can with a bike.

[@johnmccrossan9376]

@Cathronau a solution to a problem that didn't exist. And if people don't want to bike that's their right you can't make the preferred method so inconvenient that people are made to switch just because you like the idea of more people cycling.

[@johnmccrossan9376]

@Cathronau if they removed all the bike lanes and said well maybe people should just walk would that be a good idea?

[@janelantestaverde2018]

​@@johnmccrossan9376You just gave yourself the entire answer why it is good to have bike lanes in surprising accuracy: "And if people don't want to bike that's their right you can't make the preferred method so inconvenient that people are made to switch just because you like the idea of more people cycling." Now exchange the words "bike" and "cycling" with "drive" and "driving". There you have your answer.

[@johnmccrossan9376]

@@janelantestaverde2018 thing is though, that's not an answer. Biking without infrastructure is fine, I would know I do it every chance the weather gives me. Cars actually need space that's reserved just for them where bikes don't. Also the preferred method for almost everyone is driving, hence why people put up with the expense and extra training required to do it. As a final point I don't see anyone taking away space for bikes or banning them from roads shared with cars, so taking lanes from motorists to give to bikes can't fairly be compared

[@Mendogology]

I am not a cyclist, I always just walk everywhere. But anyone against bike-lanes is simply a a short minded ignorant, without excuses and other explanations. Those people are so used to live in cities of Cars, that when their metal boxes privileges are removed, they complain, it's ridiculous.

[@wholeshebang1]

We cyclists call them *_"raging cagers."_*

[@sheikhmubarak6612]

Old people: Kids these days are always in their homes on their stupid devices. Back in my day we was always outside playing. City council: Makes an actual effort to encourage young people to go outside by making the streets safer. Old people: NO NO NO YOU CAN'T DO THAT!!!! I swear to God old folks rob the joy of young people on purpose.

[@Technomonkey887]

Those same people are often the ones who complain about the noise of kids playing and accuse them of being hooligans.

[@MuzikBike]

@@Technomonkey887precisely.

[@noseboop4354]

@@Technomonkey887 It's probably the same people who forbid families with kids from renting apartments in their property.

[@AwesomeHairo]

They're selfish. They literally don't care about the younger generations.

[@sheikhmubarak6612]

@@Technomonkey887 I had seen that a few times as a kid back in the late 2000's. Those same people be complaining on Facebook about how kids don't engage in physical sports anymore and how they were the superior generation lmao.

[@HugoPerez]

I like this direction that urbanism KZbin is headed. We need more involvement in local politics.

[@Life_as_Game]

Local is great! You can make a big difference with small numbers. Instead of being 1 in millions, you are one of ~50 that actually consistently involved.

[@me12722]

@@Life_as_Game totally. We can help steer conversation from doom and gloom to asking for more progress on bike networks.

[@Hexagonian]

This isn't the direction of KZbin. This is the direction of your personalized algorithm. The anti-cyclists get their own video recommendations in their echo-chamber.

[@tezpokemonmaster]

@@Hexagonian so you really watched the unhinged rambling of the people at that meeting and went away agreeing with it?

[@Hexagonian]

@@tezpokemonmaster No. I'm also in NotJustBikes/DutchUrbanPlanning KZbin. I think its very important to keep in mind that the internet is set up to radicalize us, regardless of the topic, and we can't know if our opinion is that of the majority or if we are in our bubble. It's important to keep advocating for bike friendly infrastructure because we are very far from having "made it".

[@sanninhasottolombradiunbel1977]

As a Dutch person I must say, this is completely insane. Straight up comedy material. Most of these people would be taken to a mental hospital here, sorry, but not joking. Ageist?! hahahah my 3-year old niece rides a bike, so dis my grandfather until he died at 89 (and he didn't die riding his bicycle). The latter thought himself incapable of driving a car since age 75 but that didn't matter, he could still bike everywhere and didn't lose much mobility. You don't need a license here to ride a bike 🤣. The moment you can walk you are put on one to learn how to ride it.

[@LilBrownieD]

Yes, too many Americans do actually need a mental hospital. It's just a fact, things are dire here 😢

[@bigdog21a]

And your country is tiny and flat. In fact the idiot politicians here went to your country and said, "We should do that." and brought the stupid bike lanes here clearly not looking around at the city and seeing, gee, it is completely hilly here with nothing but up and down to the point where you cannot see one part of the city to another part of the city even if you are on top of one of the mountains that are in and around the city. The geography here is totally the opposite to Holland.

[@NathanCaggiano]

@@bigdog21a If only things like bicycle transmissions, or electric assist motors with regenerative braking existed. Then people who aren't disabled or elderly would be able to gear down to go up a hill and the disabled and elderly could turn on their hill assist to help them pedal up. Oh wait.

[@PatrickBlanchard-c6j]

Well this is Canada... Understand its not the same mentality.. As dutch you do not have the same though winters! Wait till it gets - 30... full snow.. the banks.. the city that is always late to pick up.. melts a bit.. than freeze again.. you are stock with it! We do not have the same relation with bike as Europe has.. More space to cover.. Public transit is a disaster! Car propaganda of the 50's and on has created this.... Tell me.. that street with 2 bike lanes... this is not a bit overkill?

[@graphael]

@@bigdog21a Countries like the Netherlands and Sweden show us how amazing cycling can be for everyone! Even with hills (Sweden) and bad weather (Netherlands), people of all ages bike everywhere. E-bikes and mobility scooters have been game-changers for elderly and disabled folks too - you see 80-year-olds zipping around on them! Just need proper infrastructure and separated bike lanes. Makes cities so much more livable and accessible for everyone, plus it's way cheaper than driving. And driving for 700m yeh thats completely insane...

[@iv2sab]

The entitlement of car owners runs deep. How dare they be inconvenienced for the sake of the safety of cyclists and children. You see the same thing in the U.S. with the gun culture.

[@anthonydelfino6171]

and in the US with car culture.... I live in San Francisco which has relatively low drivership rates, and even here I can't tell you how many people I've heard whine and moan when they've talked about shutting down certain streets to anything other than our public transport vehicles, or when they talk about removing parking spaces on already narrow streets

[@sarah.s.flanagan]

Bike paths aren't ableist. It IS ableist to assume that all people with disabilities can't bike, and to be unaware of handbikes and other adaptive bikes

[@davidfixitmcleod]

And the fact that people in wheelchairs and electric mobility devices use bike paths!

[@CountJeffula]

We should force all the poor people to bike! Rain, snow, excessive heat? Tough. You can bike there! Cars are for elitist snobs who value their time. /s

[@MaxwellWilliams42]

Handbikes and adaptive bikes are, to be honest, kinda terrible. Unless you get a specialty bike that allows you to bring your wheelchair along, folks like myself who use chairs are pretty excluded from bike paths. There are the types that attach directly to your chair, but they're unstable, slow, and kinda dangerous. Please don't read this as opposition to bike paths. Just pointing out that adaptive equipment is not really as good as able-bodied legs.

[@PiotrPavel]

@@CountJeffula if you do not want to bike do not bike but do no forbits other people to bike.

[@Foojaleeckalikeelamaka]

​@@CountJeffula you can still drive on the roads, no one is banning cars...

[@baseendje5763]

I just died of cringe hearing those comments in the meeting

[@se-kmg355]

Come on, if one cyclist gives you the finger, that is a valid reason to ban them all.

[@splashpit]

All vertically challenged by the look of it

[@Descriptor413]

I went through a city council meeting last week that added bike lanes on a street and it was word for word the same thing. It was actively frustrating. Do they have a script they all follow? Actual madness. Don't worry, we passed the bike lanes!

[@pqunit]

Not as hard as I’m dying of cringe reading all you gentrifiers and your complete lack of empathy for anyone who disagrees with you.

[@pqunit]

@@se-kmg355Right uh huh. Cause you’ve never judged anyone by what they look like before

[@JHempel13]

I for one cannot believe that the lady that asked "who here drives a car??" was actually surprised that eveyone raised their hand 😂

[@blueswim]

It's almost like asking: ''who here pays rent or have morgages?'' 🙃😂

[@theelmonk]

It's a meeting to fight bike lanes. It's primary market is car drivers.

[@autohmae]

In the Netherlands it would be: who here rides a bike ? Pretty much everyone puts up their hand, who here rides a car ? Pretty much everyone puts up their hand. What if she had asked: who here only drives a car, no bus/train, no bike and no walking or mobility scooter, etc. ? That would be better question.

[@Pundit07]

It was basically confirmation bias but in person instead of online

[@LarsPallesen]

Exactly. It's also a stupid assumption that one person is ONLY a car driver or ONLY a cyclist. I'm both and a pedestrian on top of that.

[@gabyszabo9615]

Montreal’s bike paths have improved my quality of life: my kid and I both bike year-round because of the dedicated bike paths. Yay bike paths!

[@TheJoaveck]

As a Dutch person I can laugh about this. The reasons they give are ridiculous. "It reduces mobility" No: When more people use a bike for trips they don't need a car for, You will eventually not have to wait for hours on a longer trip using your car. So it actually increases your mobility.

[@lexievv]

It also increases mobility for people not abla to drive cars for whatever reason. It also makes traffic in general way safer if cars have to go around and people choose bikes. There's also the fact that electric bikes are a thing, increasing mobility on a bicycle over bigger distances even more. These people really have no idea what they're on about lmao.

[@jacoblopez4419]

I moved to the Netherlands and love the infrastructure for bikes here. I find the "agest" argument to be especially absurd, I regularly see people as old and older than these people biking. If you never learned how to ride a bike just say that.

[@h82fail]

@@jacoblopez4419 It is ridiculous. My grandpa stopped driving the last 5 years of his life, and then rode his ebike every day until he was hit by a car. The road he was hit on now has bike lanes thankfully.

[@PauLtus_B]

@h82fail I'm sorry to hear but I have to say it's such a perfect example of the problem here. Cars are big and dangerous and so many people are just complaining everything else should be moving out of the way for them.

[@h82fail]

​@@PauLtus_B Yep, the personal entitlement these days - And wanting wiggle room for themselves while policing or punish everyone else for not following the letter. How common is it that people see someone going really fast on the highway and start getting angry "that A-hole", maybe even getting in their way to slow them down - the person complaining was already doing x over the speed limit themselves just to drive home faster. Meanwhile that person that was really speeding might have someone bleeding out in the car and is attempting to drive to the hospital, you don't know what is going on but still people will not mind their own business. I am breaking the law x amount to speed this much, that you want to break the same law I am breaking slightly more.. is a huge problem for me.. lol people.

[@melatonin3000]

I feel like a lot of these people view biking as this occasional, frivolous activity and don't understand that it's a legitimate mode of transportation used by thousands of people everyday. That and they don't want to share the road. They've always struck me as selfish and close-minded...and honestly not the brightest. Their kids probably use bikes and will be a lot safer with the new bike lane. How can you be against that?

[@MustraOrdo]

Oil lobbyist propaganda and its consequences have unmistakingly been a disaster.

[@davidmarsh3104]

In my community all the infrastructure to "encourage bicycling" benefits only the occasional, frivolous users: it generally makes my bicycle commuting worse.

[@machtmann2881]

In NA, cycling is unfortunately considered just a recreational activity instead of a viable mode of transportation (and it has been that way for everyone in living memory). So it is considered frivolous to cater to people who have time and money to be cycling for fitness. People really do not understand that the main point is to expand cycling to everyone and not have it just be for the fitness enthusiasts.

[@Alarios711]

@@davidmarsh3104 Provide one example

[@FullLengthInterstates]

@@machtmann2881 The dynamics are more complicated than that. Bike lanes are broadly popular, which is why so many cities in US and Canada are able to complete bike lane projects despite a few NIMBYs. On street bike lanes are treated as serious but underprotected infrastructure, while off street paths are treated as purely recreational trails.

[@sszibler]

“Not everyone can travel by car, and why should we be made to feel that we should?”

[@danyoutube7491]

Yes! Perfect question to ask in North America, particularly the US I understand, where many cities seemed to be designed solely with motorists in mind.

[@44nobody]

​@@danyoutube7491 You are correct. Many cities and suburbs in the US don't even have sidewalks.

[@ivanoffw]

It was amazing that by putting down paint and a few flexi posts to make it seem like it's safer to bicycle is limiting choice. She was worried about "forcing" people to bicycle, but wouldn't see the problem of forcing people to drive everywhere.

[@TheSpeep]

Most of the world has had roads for far longer than weve had cars, I suppose the US and Canada are kinda unique in that aspect.

[@bauhaus132]

@@44nobody I'm in Houston, TX. Building sidewalks is not mandatory. I would guess at least 50% of the streets have none. As for bike paths, pffft!

[@ArchIVEDCinema]

Wow we really got "Bike lanes are a human rights violation" before GTA 6

[@fluffyalpaca1473]

The apparent age of this crowd is not lost on me... whatever happened to leaving the world a better place for our kids and grandkids?? The older generations seem to have taken a 180° on this concept and have decided that their own personal ease and comfort is the only thing the world should be concerned about.

[@soyhugo390]

because they were those kids and they never grown up so now they have to give it to the new kids but they refuse, they cant accept they need to give the world to the new kids, its their world that the adults give it to them and only them

[@deirdre108]

So right! I live in a 55+ community and see the BS all the time.

[@ahpacific]

Aging boomers for you.

[@johnmorrison9758]

I rode a bike for many years until I was about 25, which was almost 50 years ago. I never needed a bike lane. We never had a problem those days. I don't know why people today think they need to close off lanes to ride a bike.

[@fluffyalpaca1473]

@johnmorrison9758 Because it's safer. I'm very glad that you were fine and never got seriously injured, but that's not the case for everyone. I recommend looking-up survivorship bias. You could go your whole life without a helmet and never need one, but we wear them because accidents happen and people do lose their lives without. Same concept applies to bike lanes.

[@dag1704]

How is adding a form of safe mobility reducing mobility? Who is more mobile? - Someone who needs a car for everything? Or - Someone who can choose between bus, bike, walking, driving, scooter, skates, renting a car, sharing a car, calling Uber or ridesharing service? And ideally having everything prepared for disabled people, so there are no harsh steps and people are protected from being run over by cars? Logic...

[@strellettes8511]

​@Not.a.bird.Person other cities in Northern europe dope have this problem with the winter. Tou should demand more action from your local government.

[@strellettes8511]

@@Not.a.bird.Person You're just ignorant is all. No ones biking from city to city btw, were talking inner city commutes.

[@dbclass4075]

​@@Not.a.bird.PersonAgain, why expect mass transit to be profitable on its own, but not have the same expectations on a road system? Besides, bicycle transport is for inner city transport. Sure, it's not sensible for inter-city, but it can at least reduce the congestion within the city.

[@melandor0]

​@@Not.a.bird.Personbullshit I live north of 63 degrees and I can choose between car, bike, bus and walking YEAR ROUND. WHY? There is no bad weather, only bad clothes and bad planning.

[@tpilot_error404]

Since Harley got woke nobody talks about real bikes anymore? Still got a Kawasaki to get around. Easy to park easy to manœuvre, doesnt cause traffic blocking, takes up no space. Big source of happiness.

[@AnUndivine]

"We're were not consulted." This reminds me of a student I had who complained that one of his other teachers is not hearing his point of view. I asked him "what if he did genuinely listen to you, heard your complains and acknowledged them, but the answer was still "no". What then?" And he answered "I'd wanna beat him up." He didn't want the teacher to listen. He wanted the teacher to do as he says. Same thing here. Let's not pretend that consultation is just being fair, or for that matter that the neighbourhood will listen to the city.

[@sotakoira1390]

That is rather common and applies to many issues in our society. Sometimes people feel that they are ignored when their wishes don't make it through to the final decision.

[@elenaannie6611]

isn't it the point of democracy and especiay local government that change should be community led and endorsed?

[@elenaannie6611]

especially *

[@AnUndivine]

​@@elenaannie6611 This is not an open forum where people discuss the different views of the community. This is an anti-bike lane forum where people discuss just one view.

[@jnawk83]

Wait, so your argument for not listening to people is that they want to be obeyed rather than merely heard? And so you see no problem with simply not allowing them to be heard in the first place?

[@ferociousfil5747]

Making roads narrower and separating bikes and cars is making neighbourhoods safer. My brother was killed biking back from school. A bike lane would have kept him safe. These people are so ignorant and selfish.

[@mofumofutenngoku]

My brothers and sisters, please pray for me in rural car obsessed America. The roads here have no shoulders let alone bike lanes, and everyone drive 50 MPH on the "residential" streets.

[@chuckhunter77]

The suburbs aren't much better. Monster trucks and wank panzers everywhere. No bike lanes, rarely a shoulder. I cry sometimes when I see cities with really nice bike infrastructure.

[@user-gu9yq5sj7c]

​​​​@@chuckhunter77 I've seen videos of suburbs with no sidewalks or sidewalks that just randomly end. So you have to awkwardly walk in the street. Then car people will just blame pedestrians when there are no sidewalks and those car people won't even look at how there isn't a sidewalk. They think people just want to endanger themselves walking on the road? And sometimes non-drivers can't communicate to drivers there isn't a sidewalk or bike path either cause they can't hear in their cars, with the windows up, or they just angrily speed off before something can be said to them. You would think drivers want non-car infrastructure to keep non-drivers off their roads too.

[@Fordnan]

​@@chuckhunter77"Wank panzers" LOL - is that what we call a 'Chelsea tractor' in the UK?

[@donnikthejedi2222]

​@@FordnanI'd assume it's what a funny Aussie here on YT calls Blobs. SUV's and "Crossovers" ..... i call them Straßenpanzer(Road Tank) and when it's electric its an E-Straßenpanzer XD

[@revan3270]

@@chuckhunter77suburbs of California are so fucking terrible bro

[@bretb2011]

I passed away and then resurrected and then passed away again from hearing these comments.

[@SCFLEUR]

You and me both 😆. It was so absurd.

[@koimananana]

Car-centric communities will kill if a tram or public transport is in their neighbourhood

[@An0nymous_L0gic]

So what you're saying is that cringe can be used against the ethereal. Good to know

[@Heeroneko]

If you can afford a car, you can afford an electric sit down scooter. The inverse is not true. Cars are not affordable for everybody. When a car is more accessible than a bike/scooter/walking THAT is restricting mobility.

[@christophesiewecke9208]

EXACTLY 💯. Typical boomer affluenza ruining life for the rest of us by being selfish and lacking in perspective due to disproportionately benefitting from wealth inequality...

[@lukasg4807]

If you live in a wealthy suburban neighborhood like that you can afford a car

[@Heeroneko]

@@lukasg4807 This isn't just about one rich suburban neighborhood. This is a problem in all neighborhoods regardless of economic class. Also, having the appearance of wealth and actually being wealthy are two different things. A lot of ppl look well off but are drowning in debt in order to achieve it and keep their social status. Everybody benefits when we de-stigmatize normal human locomotion methods instead of relying on cars as the sole form of transportation that's socially acceptable.

[@msjkramey]

​@@lukasg4807you never heard of being "house poor"?

[@lukasg4807]

@@msjkramey no I haven't

[@sroberts605]

This subject throws up, across most of the world, a problem with problem-solving. The most logical way forward is to see it as a problem of sharing the road systems, which means compromise.

[@Th0rvidTheViking]

Everything about that meeting was pure selfishness in action. 100% an example of "If I lose a convenience, it has to be evil" People like this make me so angry. Never any thought to anyone but themselves, ever.

[@ralf4640]

Interesting is the argument: "As long as they don't take care about the rules we shouldn't build cycle paths". Yes, and for every judged car driver we remove one road project....

[@caseyb1346]

@@ralf4640 We don't care about their rules because they don't care about us. It's a vicious cycle.

[@AllMagasGoToGitmo]

If they could be American they would be MAGA

[@tesseract2144]

They are juste unable to see past the tip or their noses. Thus any decision that will benefit the community before themselves will be a bad one for them because of their space-limited sight (limited to themselves and sometimes their family) and any decision that aim to long-term, diffuse effects will be a bad one for them because of their timed-constrained sight (constrained to literally right now without any consideration for the past or the future, I genuinely didn't see a honest argument brought by the anti-bike community that could consider a situation any different but the one their are currently in) And they are numerous, and they are vocal, and they put all the weight on decisions that affects the whole community for decades, but why should they care because they are not the ones who are or will be negatively impacted by their will the maximize their personal confort without regard to anything else ?

[@rhael42]

​@@tesseract2144they're not _unable_ to see past their noses; they're _unwilling_

[@louisjov]

A great reminder to everyone, Go to meetings like this! Most people that go to city council meetings are NIMBYs that are over 50, and lean conservative. Many city planners know that bike lanes, roundabouts, etc, know that they create a better urban space, but without vocal support, especially at community meetings, it's bery hard for them to enact positive change

[@Cruznick06]

I am disabled and would LOVE more bike paths and lanes! They mean less air pollution. They mean less road noise. They mean more people can safely travel in more ways. If I had better bike pathing near my home, I would work towards investing in an ebike with pedal assist options.

[@johnengland8619]

Some cities and states are more bike friendly to everyone.

[@miepmaster25]

Someone gets it!

[@xmtxx]

Yeah, in france, people in wheelchair, do use bike path to roam around. Their arguments are totally moot.

[@lisreads4872]

Here in the Netherlands I've seen plenty of different transport used in our bikelanes people on ebikes (my mom actually has one, since her knee operation a normal bike is a bit too difficult for her), people in sitbikes where you use your hands to pedal , blue numberplate mopeds (allowed to drive max. 25km/h) and people in power wheelchair's in the bike lane. It is accessable for all people who want to get from A to B without suffering from traffic. I find it truely laughable the arguments that are brought forward in this conference. I highly recommend trying out an electrically supported bike. It's great for exercise of ROM and it is just lovely to cycle around. I wish you all the best luck with that. Would you be looking into something mountainbikey or more dutch-upright-cycle-bikey?

[@aidenwrenn5342]

Is it a problem that I’m trying to get through a crowded city with a sofa, two armchairs, four lighting clusters, four suspension assemblies, four wheels, a hi-fi, a large engine, 80 litres of liquid storage, 500 litres of dry storage, two metres of exhaust pipe, three mirrors, eight square metres of carpet and 1.5 tons of glass and steel? NO, IT’S PEOPLE ON BICYCLES THAT ARE WRONG!

[@markholmes6771]

Ageist ! I just turned 65 have type 2 diabetes,hypertension, an irregular heartbeat and a stoma. Just bought a roadbike!

[@blubaughmr]

I would have recommended an ebike, because they tend to get ridden more, but if you do the miles, your condition will improve. I'm 62 and decades of bike commuting have allowed me to stay away from the medical industrial complex. Have fun!

[@brownmold]

Enjoy! Stay safe!

[@enbydeadly]

my mom was 62 when i was 24 and i watched her cycle up a hill that i had to get off my bike and walk up, its not that bike lanes are ageist its just that these people don't exercise they drive 700 meters instead of walk 7-10 minutes

[@leviichabod]

Ride safe bro!

[@RTomassi]

I wish you many enjoyable miles of cycling

[@langhamp8912]

I don't trust these elderly audience members with a car. They look physically incapable of safely driving down the street.

[@PSNDonutDude]

"I couldn't figure out the signs and the road" Like bruv, hand in your licence.

[@steemlenn8797]

lol yes. I so far have not a single person who is still allowed to drive but unabee to use a bike, trike, mobility scooter etc. on a bike lane. Bike lanes increase mobility, not reduce it.

[@wodediannao4577]

@@steemlenn8797 Yeah, I have a family member with one leg. He rides a bike.

[@yukihong9726]

In 2021 a 79 year old woman woman in London Ontario in Canada (What NJB calls Fake London) murdered an 8 year old child and maimed 7 other children. They were girl scouts selling cookies in the neighborhood when she hopped the sidewalk travelling 120+ km/h. The road speed limit was 50 km/h Her sentence? 2 years of house arrest!

[@komputershik7124]

Damn right! But saying that would be ageism, so instead we should propose driving reevaluation tests every year or two. If they will react with "that's anti motorist discrimination!", then we can make an experiment on who better navigates the streets: cyclists or drivers. I would continue author argument analogy with flight certificate by saying that aviation authorities require from older pilots more frequent reevaluation for obvious reasons. And flying have a common theme with driving - humans don't naturally posses knowledge and experience since it's unnatural to us. After all, they are just a bunch of hypocritical elitists, who can't comprehend that they don't "own" the streets because they are public , and thus should be equally managed. IMHO, I have zero hope to change some boomer NIMBY mind, but at least other locals won't get brainwashed by their rhetoric

[@ladylove3636]

As someone with disabilities I am so fed up of us being used as anti cycling weapon. I had fibromyalgia. Cycling pumps oxygen through the body - that was what I needed to wake up & get moving. My spine seizes up without movement. Cycling helps. I'm female and older I wouldn't feel comfortable driving. I can bike & stop at any pub if need be. I'm also dyslexic and wouldn't be comfortable driving a machine that could kill someone. I can't afford a car or lessons even if I wanted to. Less cars, less pollution, easier for those with breathing issues x

[@robertsaget6918]

I lick my fingers & sniff them

[@teagancombest6049]

How does being Dyslexic make you a dangerous driver wtf

[@rouaneb6664]

@teagancombsbest6049 Because it is very important to be able to quickly read road signs, and not all signs are easy symbols (eg special conditions, direction and street signs)

[@ThatLittleWitch]

Wow, what a bizarre meeting, thank you for going undercover for this. Personally, cycling has only increased my mobility, helped rehabilitate my injuries, and given me better quality of life.

[@stcroixpaintingpros5586]

So basically, a church full of boomers felt "offended" that nobody consulted them about this bike path.

[@nancyharris4913]

I'm a boomer and I approve your message! ( I am not a cyclist as I live in non-biking, non-walking suburbia. And at my age I am not likely to take up cycling. But I am totally supportive of creating opportunities for a variety of transportation and to reduce our over-the-top reliance on cars. I would love to walk more and my next move will be to a more walkable area, with lots of cyclists! )

[@johnmorrison9758]

@@nancyharris4913 Us boomers grew up riding bikes and we never needed a 'bike lane'. Why all of a sudden do people need to destroy roads?

[@HediGaukinaf]

@@nancyharris4913Hey man, i obviously dont know your conditions and if there is nowhere to bike theres almost no reason to do it, but Where Im from, most of grandmas aged Well above 70 exclusively use bikes to go everywhere. So Its Never too late :) once again ofcourse, completely different country; just pointing out the age thing :)

[@worldwiderach6799]

@@johnmorrison9758because boomers get offended when cyclists are on the roads and on sidewalks. Bike lanes avoid this and keep cyclists and pedestrians safe.

[@nancyharris4913]

@@johnmorrison9758 Who is talking about 'destroying roads'? I spent several days visiting my son in Montreal and we biked and scooted all around the city. We took up much less space than if we had been driving. Creating bike lanes actually reduces people looking for parking spots. There was a great freedom on the streets for both cars and bikes.

[@amelia-rose2992]

The most dangerous person on the road in the mornings is parents going to morning drop off speeding in their SUV. LEt your kids bike to school, see if they enjoy it. I used to walk to school everyday it took roughly 30 minutes to get to school. I don't think i ever thought about taking the bus. I certainly never expected my mom to drive me.

[@enbydeadly]

my mom was only nice enough to drive me in the mornings because i couldn't take the bus to school in the morning and honestly it felt dangerous even as a pedestrian to walk the 30 minutes in the morning, the amount of times i've seen flowers on the sides of the road in that area is honestly distressing in hindsight

[@user-dd5eh5lu3o]

I don't think they're the most dangerous -- the drunks are likely the most dangerous. But they are dangerous because they're rushing and not thinking clearly and can't see over the giant hood with the height of the SUV. Impatient people and drunks and the selfish -- and everyone fits into one of those, pretty much.

[@cazgerald9471]

Drivers texting, fiddling with the infotainment, eating/drinking, applying makeup... alcohol and other recreational drugs, not to mention the sheer number of people on prescription meds with warning labels about driving.

[@synth77]

Parents aren’t the most dangerous but they are a little annoying

[@shaggygoat]

There’s a nice meme of the Challenging Question Goose demanding of a parent “Why do you want to drop your kids as close as possible to the school, [name]?” (The obvious answer, of course, is the desire to protect their own children from being injured or killed by drivers doing just as they are doing.)

[@dchevron77]

"I had this one bad experience with a biker once!" Yeah, and you probably had 100x more bad experiences with a driver.

[@jerry2357]

At least one per week IMX.

[@fredbyoutubing]

In my observation. There is the same proportion of idiots riding bikes as there is with cars. but bikes have the statistical advantage of...you know, not being a two ton metal box that goes 70 km/h and skip stops in school neighborhood.

[@donnikthejedi2222]

​@@fredbyoutubingif an Idiot gets out of their Car and onto a Bicycle then they're still the same Idiot. But yeah the difference is like you said how much Damage they can do

[@IvanIvanoIvanovich]

You have to wonder what she did to warrant being flipped off. 😅

[@realdragon]

@@fredbyoutubing It's hard to say for me, I encounter drivers much more than bikers. I generally go no bike lanes that don't have too many turns

[@Braadslee]

I am a Dutch urban planner. And the fact that they liw about my country's rules concerning cycling really ticks me off. Literally every argument they brought up can be scientifically disproven. These people are so insanely egoistic it is beyond belief. What a dystopian situation.

[@sfoyogi8979]

"it is a concerted effort to reduce peoples mobility" -- Token Oil Lobbyist

[@TheRealE.B.]

Hey, don't make fun of her. It's hard to remember Fox News talking points from memory when you're under all of that public speaking pressure! /s And yes, there are confused Canadians who watch Fox News and don't realize the government they complain about is in a different country.

[@VipericVampire]

Not everyone who disagrees with you is an oil lobbyist.

[@caseyb1346]

@@VipericVampire no, but the one speaking in corpoese is.

[@marcsimard2723]

@@VipericVampirethey might as well be Only they’re doing it pro-bono

[@Mrwizard-ck7oe]

@@VipericVampire No but it's pretty obvious where she got her prefabricated talking point... an oil lobbyist

[@oshawott4544]

The issue is this mindset of "anything that impedes me in any way is evil" isn't limited to bike paths. It's anything and everything. The idea that anything these people want is good, and everything else is bad, is an inherently destructive mindset, and these types tend to bring that everywhere they go.

[@ShadowEclipse777]

It's effectively what American Conservatism has sadly devolved into over the years. That and "anything the Dems do is evil, we must do the opposite"

[@oshawott4544]

@@Not.a.bird.Person 1. Bike lanes are good, actually, because cyclists aren't the only person using them. 2. They might need a little more maintenance, like salting, but I doubt they'll remain completely unused. 3. Car lanes take up far more space. Some roads even have 7 lanes on each side. Imagine if that was a bike path, or, you know, a train? 4. They didn't even tear down the road, they just put up some cones, and it was never even mentioned what they'd do in the winter. The entire point of my comment was these people were getting territorial over something that was ultimately just an inconvenience. They didn't know anything about what a bike lane would provide, and didn't even follow the rules of driving they complained about. And my final point was that's an attitude that goes towards things like the job market ("Nobody wants to work these days!") or the economy ("Just stop buying coffee once a day and you'll be able to buy a luxury car!").

[@Jeffk114]

Clearly you do not and have never owned property. The people's reaction is classic NIMBY.

[@oshawott4544]

@@Jeffk114 I'm not saying it isn't, the problem is that this mindset isn't exclusive to tangible things like bike lanes

[@andruloni]

@@Not.a.bird.Person "majority of the population who don't want them" I'm sure you have some poll results

[@Cs13762]

its wild to hear old people in a church drop "ablest" and "ageist"

[@gijsw8681]

But if anyone else would say those words they would be ‘snowflakes’ or the ‘lazy generation’. Elders are often very hypocrite and egotistical

[@tijmen6947]

Thats the liberal brainrot

[@FeeshUnofficial]

​@@gijsw8681and this is exactly why I call people like this snowflakes, because it makes them very upset

[@TitusSc]

Worst part is bikes are excellent for their health and mobility and very safe, and in the rare occasion that an elderly person is truly incapable of riding a bike they can always safely use their e-scooter on the bike lane. It is literally better for them in every way possible. They are just addicted to their car and can’t even realize it.

[@Quadrilli0n]

​@@FeeshUnofficial Tbf everything makes elderly upset

[@Phenn5589]

So if there are no bike lanes, bikes will be on the road….along with all other vehicles. Won’t that hold up car traffic and make driving a car even more frustrating?

[@ImperialKnight86]

I live in Australia. Australians are like this too. I hate it! Can barely afford rent. If I could sell my car, I could save money by buying a bike. I might have a little bit of disposable income left. I don’t mean to sound ageist, and I know not all elderly people are like this; but it pains me that they refuse to support this because some hate progress or because they’re just misinformed. Why can’t I choose to ride public transport, bike, or walk? Why do I need a car just to drive 15 minutes? Obviously I don’t want to ban cars, but there should be a few options for people to choose from. All the people that complain about ‘limited mobility’ are the very people limiting my mobility.

[@hexzyle]

These same people will complain about people on scooters on the footpath.

[@HenriettaP]

We very much have a car culture. It drives me to distraction (excuse pun). I ride my bike when I can (I have health issues) and I’ve always used public transport. I’m in my 60s. I just cannot understand the vitriol against cyclists. I can only explain it that maybe deep down they are envious of cyclists’ fitness and activity levels. It’s really ironic how people join a gym, drive there, and then spend half hour on the stationary bike. Then rant and rave against cyclists!

[@arabcadabra8863]

@@HenriettaP There is no such thing as "car culture." It's all marketing and lobbying. That's not culture. Decades of manipulation explain the vitriol too. 😒

[@JackyPup]

when I was in my 20's I was riding a bike to work. A man pulled up on his bike, beside me. We chatted for a while. I said "I hope to be riding to work when I'm 50." He said "why stop at 50, I'm 70" and then he put on some speed and left me in the dust. Now I'm 50 and though I've switched to skateboarding (learned at 48 because of the dogs), I still travel about on my bike.

[@TsukiShimizu]

What I find ironic is the claim that cycle lanes are 'ageist' because elderly people can't ride a bike as well anymore. So, to compensate that they can't react as fast anymore, we just put the elderly into big metal boxes that go faster than bikes, where if something happens it's much worse for everyone involved !

[@chaliceb5]

As a European/German I can only shake my head in disbelief about the level of car-centered brainwash which has been successfully conducted here over decades. I doesn't even occur to the attendees of this meeting that they themselves could also use a bike more often instead of a car...like when having to go to their 1 km away grocery store or supermarket.

[@tomsuper2199]

Don't worry, we have our share of carbrains as well. Unfortunately.

[@hardopinions]

Yeah, that doesn't work in Canada or US. Biking to grocery shopping is a car-only endeavor. The reason is not just how far things are but also the size of containers. Let's say you want to get some flour, sugar and milk and some eggs. In Germany, you go get your 1l milk, 1kg flour and sugar and maybe 10 eggs. In Canada, getting the same would result in 4l milk container, 10kg of flour and sugar and 12 eggs. If you buy smaller containers, you are paying double price or worse. Container sizes for American shopping are car-sized. They would not fit on your bike. And no, don't bring up cargo bikes 😉 It's a car centric lifestyle, through and trough. Trying to transition that away from cars will require entire city redesigns, not just bike lanes.

[@HostileHairline]

@@hardopinionsthis is such a dumb comment lol. I get groceries on my bike with a regular bike rack in America all the time. You just have lazy shopping habits

[@niBBunn]

​@@hardopinions you can easily get a larger basket though. How do you think asians living in less developed areas get bags of rice back from the market? Don't tell me that a bike can fit 2 fully sized, 70-80kg adults but cant fit 1 adult and 20kg of groceries lol

[@PRH123]

@@hardopinionshave never seen a 22 pound bag of flour in a grocery store, where are you shopping? Quarts of milk have always been available and still are.

[@guaposneeze]

Pro bike lane people are always like: "Studies consistently show this will reduce the number of kids we kill, and also this is more efficient in terms of travelers per square meter of road, and bikes do less road damage than cars because they weigh less so it's more more affordable to maintain over the long term." Anti bike lane people: "You hate your community, and there's a vast secret conspiracy by You Know Who to trap us in our neighborhoods." And it's a real failure of the public education system that any people consider category two to be good and convincing argumentation to support a position on optimal infrastructure mixes.

[@mfaizsyahmi]

It has now become easier than ever to push counternarratives direct-to-audience with tiktok.

[@MenacingWithVideos]

Ask the anti bike people if they know that cars are a conspiracy by You Know Who to make child and fentanyl trafficking easier. They added a new lane to the highway in my area and now MS-13 lives nextdoor to me.

[@TrevorHamberger]

Government kills far more people than bike accidents ever will. And yet you're going to give them more power?

[@LRM12o8]

And most ironically, the thing that _actually_ traps people in their home/neighborhood is car dependent status quo they're defending. But of course they don't understand this, because car dependency only traps the young, the old, the disabled and the poor and those people don't _genuinely_ care about any of these groups. Maybe they'll understand it in the near future, when it becomes normalized for their fancy new cars to require a breathalizer test to start (such law already being debated in several countries) and can remotely be immobilized by the stealership or scamufacturer in case you're behind on your mortgage or subscription payment (some stealerships already do that) because all corporations nowadays want to sell their products without transferring full ownership to the buyer, aka the new rightful owner, since the technology (connected services) to retain control over things you no longer physically possess now exists and regulators/consumer protection agencies do nothing against these abusive business practices!

[@escthedark3709]

Who is "You Know Who"?

[@CrimsonAralia]

Oh man... all those people against having a safe bike lane near schools probably would say they're pro-life too.

[@neutronpcxt372]

Oh, I remember this one! I got so pissed watching the video as it just showed one of the worst things that can happen in conferences: circlejerking. There were almost no oppositional thoughts or critical thinking.

[@thekingoffailure9967]

I thought echo chambers only existed online?? 🤔🤔🤔

[@Akhin-zx]

It was such a hard watch bro 😭

[@mds3697]

That's why the video creator (don't know his name sorry) should have spoken up instead of making an online video criticising these people. Not like they're gonna watch this video. This comment section is just as much of a circle jerk as what we see in the vid tbh

[@neutronpcxt372]

@@mds3697 Absolutely. I personally wanted to attend this meeting but I had thought at the time that my voice would not be of any use to such a meeting. Oh I was wrong, I would have provided great footage and a great reasonable anchor :P

[@danilooliveira6580]

@@mds3697 in a way, yes, but the video is directly responding their meeting. however I have to say it's not always a good idea to speak up against the majority in meetings like that, they are not there to listen to opposed opinion, and it's possible people will just kick you out of there. it's also not easy, because you are alone basically dealing with gish gallop, it's a lot of information you will have to check before giving a counter argument to them. meaning speaking up is probably a second meeting thing.

[@toddjohnson6809]

Old people don't ride bikes? Never heard of Florida or Arizona. I'm a young senior who uses my bike to commute to and from work as a truck driver. Bike routes would increase seniors' ability for mobility as well as for people on mobility scooters. What you have there is a room full of miserable Karen's and Kevin's. They themselves probably need to get out on a bike and get some fresh air and exercise, which may improve their miserable attitudes.

[@tommyshanks4198]

Never heard of arthritis, vertigo or osteoporosis? There is also visual actuity, and simply not being used to look 6 ways for cyclists, skateboarders, escooters in addition to cars and trucks. It is not a surprise seniors especially opposed badly planned bike lanes. Then there is the the biking crowd, which already skews differently from the general population. Not surprised ageist & ableist gets thrown around in these debates My own opinion is that indeed, urban planning departments are ageist & ableist

[@renelopez8227]

​​@@tommyshanks4198 I don't know many elderly people that are comfortable on a bicycle, but I would assume that the children who grow up in very bike friendly areas will have a lot less physical limitations when they're older. We have to start realizing that we may never see the complete benefits of these changes within our own lifetimes, but other people will greatly benefit down the line

[@lws7394]

@@tommyshanks4198 Well, when you have arthritis or osteoporosis it is important to remain active, especially with bone and musscle strengthening activities ! Cycling is ideal for that, especially with an e-bike the effort can be regulated to the user ... For bone strengthening more impact activities are advised The neighbour of my mother has been spastic since youth, and currently, age late 50s/early 60s has artritis a chronic hernia. But in all those 3 conditions it is important for her to remain active. She goes on a daily walk for 40 minutes. She works in Home care and goes to her clients in several neighbouring villages by e-bike.

[@AnnOminous7]

I think they meant to say that old people who never rode a bike still don't intend to. But they will scream if they have to be retested for driving ability. And yet a fatality that occurred near another recently installed bike path was attributed to the driver, who subsequently gave up their license. According to the coroner's report, the fatality had nothing to do with the bike path (Bourret) but local critics of bike paths continue to claim that it did. :(

[@lws7394]

@@tommyshanks4198 arthritis, osteoporosis, vertigo, mobility limitations ? No driving license because of medications etc ? Who else benefit from Dutch bicycle infrastructure : kzbin.info/www/bejne/roSqqWZ-iM9-etE&ab_channel=BicycleDutch

[@OntarioTrafficMan]

Before: You can drive, walk or take transit After: You can drive, walk, take transit, cycle or use fast mobility scooters Conclusion: "It is a concerted effort to reduce people's mobility"

[@michaelcartmell7428]

Before: You can drive, walk*, or take transit** *Walking will be unpleasantly close to fast moving vehicles, and possibly injure you, so nobody actually will, but we technically get to check the box. ** transit will be limited, inconvenient, costly, and slower, but we technically get to check the box.

[@olska9498]

Well, you missed the part where the 0.7km route became 2km, so the grocery trip now takes an additional 2 minutes. PER WEEK! 😢

[@ChristopherRayMiller]

@@michaelcartmell7428 Actually, there have been several incidents in Montreal over the past two decades of people on sidewalks injured or killed by motor vehicles coming up over the side and plowing into them.

[@Andy-fd5fg]

@@olska9498 or they could get on a bike to go to the shop. Maybe even walk. I bet most of the time they are just nipping to the shop to get bread and milk.

[@Jodamo]

That was my first thought. Bruh it’s .7km just hop on a bike.

[@jean-pierregigandet8542]

It's surprising to see people not wanting to share what belongs to everyone.

[@joshuasmith4315]

Listening to these people raises my blood pressure.

[@boston_octopus_442]

I had to control my vomit reflex.

[@Im_a_dragur]

Yeah same

[@Tindog81476]

Amen!

[@zacharyhockett6248]

Not as high as their blood pressure probably is

[@Eric4bz]

I had a stroke four minutes in

[@KikijeanN]

As a young Montréalais, I have been biking to school throughout high-school using an old bike lane. Today, the new REV alliows me to continue getting to [m'y full time occupation] by bike daily, in the middle of downtown, something I would never have been able to consider doing before. I am a firsthand witness of how all the new bike paths around Montréal really do have an impact on young biking to school! Let''s go bike paths!

[@UnrealRope]

10:00 "Not everyone can travel by bike" Arguing that biking is less accessible than driving is wild. Average car price: ~$40k Average bike price: ~$500

[@totalstrangerthing7419]

A 500 for a bike? Biggest WTF in my life

[@corradoalamanni179]

​@@totalstrangerthing7419 those prices are really high

[@tylernorby4939]

@@totalstrangerthing7419 I mean you could spend $5k on one too if you really love biking.

[@roderickcortez138]

To be fair you can get a bike at Walmart for $200.

[@bandit816]

God the lead paint and gas did a lot of damage

[@SmartMaterial]

Every school should have safe bike paths surrounding them.

[@xouxoful]

Are you crazy ? Then kids will be tempted to get there by bike !

[@milliedragon4418]

I agree! That's absolutely I agree with

[@DanielBrotherston]

It is honestly remarkable to me that some of the most dangerous roads in the city are outside schools at drop off time...and the cause of that danger is 100% the parents of all the children who are in grave danger.

[@skii_two]

@@xouxofuloh… my… god… Big Bike was behind this all along.

[@scragar]

@DanielBrotherston I had to stop cycling to school as a kid after a driver decided parking in a no parking zone on top of the cycle lane I was in was the right decision. My bike was ruined, she was angry at me for being in her way, and although I was unharmed I decided cycling simply wasn't worth risking my life when a parent could care so little about another childs life. I think making a dedicated drop off zone and bike lane that can't be occupied by cars is one of the smartest things they could do, it's so much safer.

[@arjanghai3028]

"How do we transport our children?" The answer is obviously the CHILDREN BIKE TO SCHOOL!!!

[@mariehernandez4573]

They could also bike with their kids to school. And it's not like adding bike infrastructure means removing all car infrastructure

[@HoneyBadger80886]

It's call a bike train. And parents , children and schools love it. #PointLoma #SanDiego

[@Minelaughter]

Bike Bus⁸​@@HoneyBadger80886

[@simrdownmon6431]

The selfishness of Boomers and X-ers is mind boggling to me... and I'm an X-er. Young humans, keep fighting the greed and don't stop till you're heard and victorious.

[@silvslim]

@@simrdownmon6431 I don’t think it is fair to classify a generation. It is cultural, they don’t have a bike culture, and that is what it comes down to.

[@texaswunderkind]

I see maybe two people in the entire room under the age of 50. So basically it is a bunch of old curmudgeons who just want to keep kids off their lawns. My neighborhood has bike lanes on all major streets. My only complaint is that they got cheap with it and only painted lines for the lanes. The bike lanes are much better when they have physical barriers like pylons or curbs to separate the space for drivers. In many places, these lanes have parking for parks and schools. The neighborhood consistently ranks among the most desirable in the city, partially because of the bike infrastructure. Your kids aren't dodging moving cars just to ride their bikes.

[@flack3]

There not a man who is not balding in this video. 100% get off my lawn folks

[@cuadstar]

As a professional driver of 3 decades plus and a cyclist of 4 decades, plus my experience is reckless irresponsible people are the problems, not bicycle lanes. Bicycle lanes outweigh nuisan's to motorist by far. It's sustainable, it's healthier, it makes us wealthier and it's great for the l environment.

[@SlugSage]

I'm NOT a cyclist, and I have no sympathy for those people in that meeting.

[@dannydaw59]

They should have been honest by saying "We don't want bike lanes." Let's take a vote: Who doesn't want bike lanes? raise your hand. Instead they made themselves vulnerable by making reasons that the opposition can blow holes through.

[@realdragon]

You don't need to use certain transportation to be pro option

[@nancyharris4913]

moi aussi! (I'm embarrassed by my fellow boomers. But cut is some slack. We were indoctrinated into car culture. Societal change takes time. But don't think that there aren't many boomers who support this trend! )

[@foxtrot2320]

I love how they say that cyclists don't follow road laws, when I see dozens of cars running red lights on the daily, and the amount of cars that actually do their stop signs is very very little.

[@Vaporwave_kdh]

Plus these are all seniors speaking, and everybody knows seniors are the greatest drivers 🙄

[@nickmonks9563]

"I only speed when..."

[@atropabelladonna]

Also they often don't know the law and will become aggressive, verbally and at times physically assault bikers because they think they are right. Where I live it's allowed to overtake cars on the left assuming there is space - the number of times I saw cars purposefully turning towards the pavement to block the bike passing them last minute or freaking out when a bike passed them (including shouting verbal abuse from the windows or literally chasing the bike down the street and pulling people off their bikes...). They always think they ar heroes catching the evil biker law-breakers when they are not only in the wrong from the get go but also break the law by assaulting poeple.

[@JD-sm7dq]

There is a general term: Motonormativity, essentially it refers to an idea that cars are rewiring our brains to ignore all the bad stuff about driving.

[@hexzyle]

I don't see a reason to use this over the already established "car dependancy"

[@petersill6908]

@@hexzyle You can be dependent on your car and still realize that "this is not normal".

[@innocentnemesis3519]

@@hexzyle ‘car dependency’ describes the built environment; ‘motonormativity’ describes the culture and development axioms that create it

[@byrongsmith]

I find 'car-brain' works well as a more colloquial term.

[@kylezo]

And the entire mentality is completely fabricated by Henry Ford, who famously rounded up and destroyed thousands of buses in order to force car dependency to sell more of them.

[@jmo2104]

How bizarre that they're against a bike lane

[@viccasaur]

Its crazy how closed minded these people are. Imagine getting exercise and living in a city with less noise and air pollution.

[@afrophoenix3111]

North American car culture got these people good. Don Draper would be proud, if he put down his cigar and wads of cash long enough to notice.

[@NightSkeptic]

I'm mostly a pedestrian, and I'm not a big fan of cyclists.

[@roderickcortez138]

@@NightSkeptic Cool. I'm still gonna ride my bike everywhere.

[@DoritoBot9000]

Bike lanes are “ageist”? I would think that if a person is too old to ride a bicycle, they should be no where near operating a car.

[@JudeKS10]

If you simply cycle often throughout your life, you can probably continue cycling till your 70. After that you shouldn't be driving

[@msjkramey]

I don't think that that's entirely accurate. Cars require a lot less physical strength to operate than a bike. And there are plenty of accommodations that can be made for disabled drivers that are more accessible than on bikes. That said, I think the most inclusive thing is to have options and to make sure that people are able to get to the most important places like the grocery store, the doctor, the post office, etc. Where I live, there is a bus that is specifically for disabled people and the elderly that you can sign up for. Instead of having to travel to a bus stop, you can request that it stops outside of your house or close to your house, it has destinations based on community needs, and it can accommodate wheelchairs & other mobility aids

[@HSDclover]

@@JudeKS10 i mean, 70 year olds can absolutely still cycle, and drive. there is no hard cut off age for when someone's ability to safely operate a vehicle begins to wane. My parents are both healthy in their 70s perfectly capable of driving and cycling, and show no real signs of getting worse despite only doing a casual amount of exercise. my grandfather had been capable well into his late 80s. More effective than a cut off age would be a requirement to renew a driver's license that involves an exam.

[@hanhtar9062]

As a Frenchman, these meetings look like South Park episodes.

[@scientificapproach6578]

This is a good example of why cities should be built to be walkable from the beginning. Once something is built, it becomes very hard to change.

[@sg1gr]

NDG is extremely walkable, though. This area is around Monkland Village. Given that, I agree with more bike lanes. However, I do believe consultation should have happened. I also know that in one area, the street was narrowed to the extent that the bus could not turn into it; this was in a neighbouring area, not NDG. I think the implementation could be better. I can imagine that it might be challenging for people who have a hard time walking (actually, I know because I have a family member who uses a walker and I am basically in this area) and who are dropped off by a car or by assisted transportation to walk through a bike lane in order to get to the sidewalk, particularly in winter when Montreal streets are icy. Like I said, I support bike lanes, but the lack of consultation did not help the cause. I simply wanted to point out that this area is extremely walkable and is an amazing neighbourhood, with the kind of mixed density for which Montreal is renowned. Cycling is not as big in NDG, but the people who live in the area do like to walk over cycling because you do not need a bike to walk to the corner or just a block ot two away.

[@masong8332]

This video (and others here on Oh The Urbanity!) encouraged me to write to my local councilor (municipality in Ontario) about a more bicycle friendly and walkable neighborhood. To my surprise he wants to meet next week to hear more! Here I thought I had no power to make change.

[@OhTheUrbanity]

I love it!

[@jandroid7218]

How did it go?

[@nerigarcia7116]

Just a bunch of people complaining about change. You'll live, you'll adapt, but it's better for a greater good and future. I'd rather have safety for my child riding than a convenience for my driving. I'd love to have this in my city in California.

[@fiddley]

If there were more bike lanes 50 years ago, there'd be less old people now that are so out of shape they need to protest against new bike lanes.

[@davethibault6734]

"Bike lanes reduce peoples mobility" ... The amount of facepalms I have for that remark knows no bounds. "Bike lanes are agist and ableist". that couldn't be further from the truth and I as someone who has trouble riding a standard bike due to a knee injury am furious at that statement. If the only bikes that existed were the standard pedal bikes you commonly see, they may have a point. But eBikes exist to allow for people who have issues pedalling to enjoy biking. My mother-in-law who's in her senior years and also has a lot of health issues also has an eBike which she uses all the time. There are also adaptive bikes to support other forms of disabilities, including eScooter attachments for wheelchairs, or hand pedalling ebikes. Plus I've also seen my fair share of electric wheelchair users also use the bike lanes too. Mostly because they're safer than the streets and smoother than the sidewalks. And of course these people conveniently forget that a lot of elderly and disabled people can't drive either.

[@LilChuunosuke]

Ebikes are also great for areas not built on flat land! I live in an area with a lot of steep hills where cyclists typically have to dismount and walk their bike up the hill. There's 3 hills like this between my home and work despite it being a relatively short distance, so I got an ebike to save time and energy. I also have a neurological condition that doesn't necessarily prevent me from driving, but makes me feel less safe doing so. I sometimes zone out or get extremely distracted, which could result in an accident if I suddenly need to react very quickly. On a bike, i will usually go over a bump or begin sliding onto the raised lip on the side of the road and snap out of it. I'm sure one day this will cause me to get in an accident, and if it does, I want to minimize the harm I am capable of doing to others. I don't see how making the roads LESS dangerous for people like me is ableist!

[@mfbfreak]

My grandma quit driving her car at the age of 75 or so. She did not feel like she was able to drive properly anymore (which was good judgment imho). So she started riding a bicycle. Eventually she stopped that too - she was a tiny lady, and e-bikes did not exist in her size yet (it's only fairly recently that e-bikes in smaller sizes appered on the market). But she did get another 7 years of mobility out of normal bikes before getting a taxi-bus pass, with which she could be picked up and dropped off by a taxi van wherever she wanted.

[@ishathakor]

also wrt the ageist complaint: a lot of seniors also can't drive? i don't know what the laws around this are in canada, but practically speaking someone in a motorized wheelchair can absolutely safely use a bike lane

[@MsMarmima]

So true, also they tend to get hit by cars often!

[@drdewott9154]

I guess the biggest complaint there might not even be about the bike lanes but the bikes available to the public. Conventional mens bikes like those that are largely the only on the market in North America require lots of agility to get on and off. Especially compared to womens bikes with a step through frame like an Omafiets, which is more suited to the elderly. Here in Denmark we've had ads from the traffic safety council letting the elderly be aware of switching their bike to a more accessible one to lower the risk of getting hurt while getting on or off.

[@OntarioTrafficMan]

In the northern suburbs of Toronto I'm noticing an increasing number of elderly people using cargo tricycles (sometimes electric). They may not be able to ride a bicycle or drive a car anymore but at least the cycling infrastructure allows them to get to and from the grocery store independently within a reasonable amount of time.

[@chefnyc]

Nursing homes are ageist; should be banned 😅

[@cdnpoliwave9293]

@@OntarioTrafficMan Where exactly do you see these people? I would love to have an electric cargo trike and its nice to hear that there are people in my region who are using them. I have never seen one in person but I would LOVE to have one!

[@shday1]

I'm from this area and attended an information session and watched a city council meeting about the path. One thing I noticed is that the same few people end up speaking for everyone.

[@AnnOminous7]

People who neither live on the street nor drive.

[@Schlabbeflicker]

Welcome to political activism.

[@clarkpalace]

@@Schlabbeflickeryeah maybe. Cynical much? I too know the area. We just had a pitchfork meeting but on a totally different subject , a building for itinerants. They would show up each day for a bed that night. Fortunately the group didnt do a good job of choosing the right area and its all off. This crap on Terrebonne stinks of bs. What is wrong with an effing bike lane. Yes you might loose parking, but you should have a driveway! Lol! I realize driveways arent everybody’s luck. Still bike lanes , though a pain for us older richer folk, are kind neccesary. I wouldnt listen to these fools in their meeting

[@fredbyoutubing]

I saw my own street corner in the video and they changed the street to a one way with cycle lanes like mentioned. I was skeptical at the usefulness when this happened. This summer, I've seen so much more families with young children riding along together. People adjusted and now make it part of their commute.

[@satunnainenkatselija4478]

That design with the green posts doesn't look safe or maintainable. They would have to plow the bike lane with a separate mini plow.

[@SkunkRiverCycles]

Saying adding Cycling infrastructure somehow decreases mobility is a new level of willful ignorance I find incredibly hard to comprehend.