The Fascinating Human-Scale Urbanism of Dutch Suburbia

[@F40PH-2CAT]

Grownups own cars.

[@OhTheUrbanity]

You tell ‘em!

[@een_schildpad]

Many do because in the US and Canada they don't have great alternatives. But I'll tell ya, skipping the traffic jams and not worrying about parking with a pocket full of cash that I didn't spend on my car is an AWESOME and freeing feeling :⁠-⁠) ❤

[@stormer7502]

We got a big boy here

[@alex2143]

Oof, pin of shame. A lot of grownups over here own cars as well. But it's possible to live without one. In North America, that would be really difficult. Grown up countries give people the freedom to choose whether they want to own a car.

[@han984]

Indeed, it's very important to show the other grownups that your toy is bigger

[@barryballinger6023]

Seeing people walking on those comfortable little streets is heartbreaking. We could have that here.

[@keithholmes5433]

Every suburban resident I know is concerned about how fast cars drive around their neighborhood. Narrowing streets is such an easy fix for so many things.

[@ttc_flaw7964]

​@keithholmes5433 Facts, I always see on peoples lawn in the suburban neighborhood have a lawn sign saying "SLOW DOWN!"

[@byronday8696]

Why not make it! Might take a while, but people built it and (unless I'm mistaken) we're people too!

[@dragonwukong9]

lol you wont becuase america is busy bombing other countries or selling weapons

[@gearandalthefirst7027]

@@byronday8696 The issue is that the people who want this and the people who have the resources/ability/legal right to build it are almost entirely separate groups. "Just make it!" has the same energy as telling a homeless person to "just get a job!" I will almost certainly never have the money to buy a place, let alone have any input on how that place was constructed.

[@humanecities]

When I visited the Netherlands, I was with a big group - most of whom are retired. They kept mentioning how cute things were, how quiet it was, and how easy it was to get around. 100% of the people I was with were living in Canadian suburbs. It was a great opportunity to talk about little things we can do back home to improve our areas. We can remove parking minimums, build smaller homes with a smaller set back from the sidewalk, add bikes lanes, permit mixed use, etc. We don’t need skyscraper density, but we do need to change what we’re doing.

[@TheUlquiorraCifer]

America and Canada really need change. American suburbia is depressing.

[@ahoy1]

It's so depressing to see that it *can* be better, to know what the solutions are, but to be powerless to change it.

[@humanecities]

@@ahoy1 we can do more than we think. It’s easier for me to go speak to city council than it is to speak to my provincial legislature, and many of these decisions are made locally.

[@OBSMProductions]

​@@ahoy1the biggest changes are done in local government. Infact here in Albuquerque there's been a lot of outspoken people about urbanism and the city is trying to remove parking minimums, but there's community leaders that want to call for a removal of power for the mayor since they think that theyre giving developers a 'free-for-all' in any neighborhood. Theres still misconceptions to iron out but that's more like free market baby.

[@Ben-jq5oo]

@@TheUlquiorraCiferSame here in Australia. Souless, dead, with nothing to do but park your new truck in the driveway and gaze at the endless shades of brick, occasionally broken up by a grey render version with the latest charcoal or black roof baking under the sun. I hate it.

[@Free-g8r]

Kids will 9 times out of 10 prefer to play in a neighborhood playground with other kids than to spend time alone in their own yards

[@gaolen]

very true, i grew up with a normal sized dutch backyard, but i was always outside playing with the neighbour kids on the grass field outside the house, or the little playground in front of the houses. i wonder to what degree this makes a diffrence in socialisation of young kids, as i was already playing freely with neighbour kids just outside the house when i wasnt even in preschool yet. but i feel like i only ever hear about playdates being needed to make kids play together in the usa when it comes to small kids

[@Free-g8r]

@@gaolen yes this notion of needing a backyard "for the kids" is a complete delusion in North America. If people actually counted the amount of time their kids spent in their own yards it would be negligible. A pool may increase this but even then the pool is mostly used when other kids are visiting. The playdate is a way to manually introduce socialization to the kids' otherwise socially isolated existence. It's unthinkable to allow preschool children freely roam their neighbourhoods and play with their friends because the houses are often too far apart and, of course, the children might be hit by a car/giant SUV or pickup truck.

[@Bertuzz84]

@@Free-g8r Yeah the idea of being stuck in the backyard sucks. We explored the entire neighborhood as little kids in the Netherlands. There were no wide straight through roads in the residential area. Lot's of bends in the roads and traffic calming measures all around. Plus we had the sidewalk/bikelane to walk on in many places. I think that the 80s when that neighborhood was designed was when they clearly prioritized making it child friendly. We also never got brought to school in a car by our parents. We went by ourselves riding our bike from a really young age. It was an amazing time to grow up as a kid, we had nearly complete freedom and independance. My parents would just laugh if you asked them to taxi you around like a helicopter parent.

[@jasonriddell]

@@Free-g8r as a KID I lived in southern California in the "country" it was a one street subdivision in otherwise farm land (think back to the future) and lived on a ONE acre plot of land and the other houses were ONE acre and I would walk / ride my bike to the other houses where MY friends were and NEVER played ALONE in the backyard

[@Free-g8r]

@@jasonriddell how many kids do that these days? With the increased size of the SUVs and trucks most parents are scared to let their kids out unsupervised. They might not even be aware that that's the reason. Parents just feel it in their gut that the streets are more dangerous now than they used to be 20-30 years ago. And the fact that the US has hit a 40 yr peak in pedestrian deaths proves it.

[@bearcubdaycare]

A lot of urbanism is expressed as how things are in other countries (which gives a sense of "other"), or "wouldn't it be nice if". But visiting my mother's neighborhood from her teens 75 years ago, it was quiet, walkable, affordable, a park across the street, a corner store a few blocks away...and exactly as she remembered it. It would be interesting to capture people recounting tales of walkable neighborhood and cities of their youth.

[@OhTheUrbanity]

I agree that it can be counterproductive to focus too much on copying far-away places. That’s why a main goal of our channel has been to highlight successes in cycling, pedestrian spaces, missing middle housing in Montreal, which people in North America will tend to find more familiar and relevant. But we also had a lot of fun visiting the Netherlands recently, and we can’t resist talking about some of the things we noticed and encountered!

[@lws7394]

It's not so difficult and the US used to have them ! (see Philadelphia) . But they got bulldozed and by zoning law forbidden to build. European cities are old , yes , but over half of the housing stock in NL is post 1950. Cities and 'new towns' have been built from scratch. And there are 1960s wide road ' garden cities' neighbourhoods have been retrofitted as well. In the 1980s a lot of cul de sac neighbourhoods have been built. With a couple major differences : there were a lot of bike path short cuts. More town houses and all would have a neighbourhood 'grocery mall' with 2 'smaller' supermarkets, a drugstore, hair salon , GP and pharmacy and a little more. And multiple grammar schools . 30% of US car trips are

[@m.e.3862]

​@@OhTheUrbanityactually parts of Brossard, St Lambert and Greenfield park on the south shore resemble some of these neighbourhoods. Lots of town houses and low rise condos. Some are connected to the bike paths and green spaces. Still need a car but it is possible to limit the use via public transport, biking etc.

[@jasonriddell]

@@OhTheUrbanity the Netherlands gives "blue prints" for the IDEAL neighbourhood and there are a LOT of "take away" items like the BRICK car parking that is visually NOT a driving lane having terraced homes with central car parking VS garages all implementable in NEW developments with little change

[@jasonriddell]

@@lws7394 IMHO the 80 - 90 ERA suburbs that went out of there way to "traffic calm" by REMOVING entrances/exits and there for removing through traffic causes a LOT of the less then 5 mile car trips as everything is congregated at or around the choke point where the neighbourhood is accessed

[@hanstun1]

Swede living in Canada here. I am so tired of the excuse that Canadian streets are in such bad condition due to winter. Scandinavia has more winter than any densely populated area in Canada and we don't seem to have this problem.

[@OhTheUrbanity]

I don't think it's controversial to say that winter (especially freeze-thaw cycles) is bad for roads. We didn't suggest it was the only reason.

[@ronaldderooij1774]

@@OhTheUrbanity Freeze-thaw cycles are only devastating when there is a crack beforehand. Just make sure there are no cracks in the road before winter sets in. Cracks in roads are caused by heavy traffic in weight (looking at you, SUV's) and number of traffic movements.

[@bmw803]

The problem in Canada and U.S. is heavy corruption. Corruption comes in different forms. In many cases roads aren't build properly on purpose, so Unionized members can go back and rebuild the same road they rebuilt a few years earlier.

[@archmilan]

@@OhTheUrbanity It still is an excuse even if freeze-thaw cycles are bad for any built environment. Ultimately its a choice on what quality of infrastructure you want to maintain and a built environment that suffers from increased wear should probably also budget for more maintenance. The real problem, as you alluded to, is the amount of infrastructure per person (though also the weight and frequency of vehicles using it), which to NA standards can bankrupt places if you want to maintain them.

[@jasonriddell]

IMHO it is WINTER and the AMOUNT OF streets to take care of AND stretched BUDGETS due to the LOW density to infrastructure to maintain

[@DanielBrotherston]

This is a fantastic video...probably the most important for North America because it challenges so many assumptions. The vast majority of the suburbs in the Netherlands have been built since the 60s, we aren't talking about medieval cities here. It shows just how much our bad land use and transportation planning is a choice...it isn't necessitated by our alleged desire for car mobility.

[@PhotonBeast]

Heck, Almere's first home was finished in 1976. Rotterdam was almost entirely rebuilt after WW2 (and also has a more modern look). :)

[@jasonriddell]

Winnipeg Canada has 50's ERA neighbourhoods that offer a LOT BETTER then the MODERN house ONLY suburb and is MOSTLY detached homes with some side by side "semi's" (30+%) the houses are "modest" in the 1000 - 1500 square foot range the neighbourhood has 2 CAR centric strip malls(100% walkable to) and 3 public schools within it the dead end roads have paths that connect through to the next street and MANY entrances / exits so even during "car-heaven" times we DID BETTER then we do NOW

[@PhotonBeast]

@@carmenl163 It isn't. The narrow streets you see in the video are on the extreme end of narrow. In Amsterdam, in my experience as an American living there, those are found more in the center (which is older) and/or as short pedestrian only pathways specifically for the residents of that cul-de-sac. It's usually also not the ONLY street entrance as there are often entrances from the back garden. Narrow streets in this context are comparing from American standards (2 lanes + 2 parking lanes); you can have narrower streets without it being shoulder to shoulder. As well, the houses themselves can be a range of sizes themselves. Plus, with through traffic often pushed to main roads, these neighborhood streets tend only to get traffic from residents. This also reduces noise. It also doesn't pre-clude condos, traditional apartment complexs, etc. I guess the question is, what are you attempting to compare? What are you looking for? Housing space? Space away from neighbors? Isolation? 'cause even then, you go far enough out and you can still find SFH on isolated streets.

[@sander7838]

Its actually even better, way way better than shown in the video. They're only showing the Amsterdam area, which is overpriced and overcrowded. Which means less room, comfort and luxery, higher prices.

[@TheSuperappelflap]

The only reason the Netherlands doesnt look like Canada or the US is that we dont have the space to do it wrong. We would if we could. But every square meter wasted on parking spots or inefficient roads and suburban sprawl means something else has to go. That something else being nature, farmland, living space, or businesses.

[@lkruijsw]

Excellent video. Good explanation. Only one thing, although it is mentioned, it could be more emphasized. The cul de sac street layout is often somewhat similar to the American suburb, but in the Dutch suburb you have always cut throughs for cycling and pedestrians. That means that for the car you have to drive around (the same as in America), but for cycling and walking you can take a shorter route. This is also great for kids. Only a city like Boulder Colorado they went the Dutch way.

[@OhTheUrbanity]

That was the theme of a past video: kzbin.info/www/bejne/mqK0qGNrgtdpaac

[@PVPRpieter]

Good point. I live in (on?) a Cul de Sac but we can cycle or walk through, where cars have to turn around.

[@NederlandsTransatlanticus]

Not always. You see, the Netherlands isn't always completely fair about urban planning on a bigger scale. Especially regio Amsterdam is having terrible urban planning. Those new neighborhoods around the old cores are on a bigger scale still urban areas. The true suburb of Amsterdam starts at Zuidoost and is sprawling deep into Almere. Almere 2.0 hasn't finished yet, but when the IJmeerverbinding light connection over the Lake IJ is there, Almere becomes the eastern flank of Amsterdam and then people can see how equally bad Dutch suburbs can be compared to the rest of the world with freeway supermarkets, cul de sac labyrinths, no PT and big front yards with driveways having room for four cars, the green(washed) neighborhood of the future: Oosterwolde. The rest of Almere is okay when it comes to bike safe infrastructure, but the sprawl is bad for Dutch standards. That's just Almere. The Netherlands also has plans to convert holiday parks into residential areas to fix the housing shortage. Sounds great, but they're exactly the gated cul-de-sac neighborhoods in the middle of nowhere we should NOT be building! People always vote for their own interests and the results are always the same. We're finally having a national minister of Public Housing who's seeing the bigger picture. He might be able to fix the problems I've mentioned.

[@Paul_C]

Sadly we has our elections. Which means most plans are on hold. 😂

[@xXErr4rXx]

I just moved to Utrecht. Everytime I take a walk in the neighborhoods right outside the city, I am blown at how beautiful, calm and friendly the streets are. I love how happy the kids are, I would’ve loved to had my childhood here

[@jamalgibson8139]

I haven't finished this video yet and I can already say this is the best video you guys have put out. In my opinion, this is the only video that is needed to basically squash any and all arguments against reforming our zoning code, and I'm glad you guys were able to make it.

[@pavelow235]

No zoning in Mexico, yet lots of poverty....libertarianism doesn't seem to work out in regards to city planning.

[@jamalgibson8139]

@@pavelow235 Interesting take. Note that everyone else is comparing countries with similar economies. Give Mexico a couple of decades and maybe things will change.

[@Nina-cd2eh]

@@pavelow235 Mixed zoning is deliberate. "No zoning" with an attitude of "build whatever" for big corporations destroys cities. Because even in Mexico you'll see these suburbs that appeal to the rich, rather than the people that live there. And these places, are a drain to the economy. The US get away with it because of their wealth, that is able to subsidize those places, but it's not sustainable in most countries.

[@Ben-ixzIq]

The first time I went to Netherlands I found myself in a random suburb of Eindhoven with 2 hours to kill. So I just walked around and I was baffled at how pleasant, clean, livable and interesting it was, just like you described. I am from Europe and I had never seen anything like this. You’d find very small pockets of nice suburb developments in other European countries but far from the scale of Dutch suburbs in my experience.

[@CSVhdd]

Thanks

[@y.v.l.]

An important thing to keep our neighbourhoods/suburbs liveable and socially connected is the requirement to always include a (small) shopping centre for all your daily needs (and sometimes a lot more). This means that you can always walk or cycle to the nearest shops. Where house prices are concerned, please note that you showed houses in the most populated and expensive parts of the Netherlands.

[@hugocast]

Hear hear. I live in a walkable, planned community in North America and it’s fantastic being able to walk to the grocery store, pharmacy, gym, barbershop, etc. I am hopeful that as more people have the ability to work from home they’ll get involved locally in improving their neighborhoods. I am part of my HOA and make sure to attend all meetings and voice my opinion in all initiatives.

[@bramvanduijn8086]

Agreed. I live in a walkable city in the Netherlands. I enjoy having within walking distance the following: A small-ish supermarket, butcher, cheeseshop, barber, liquor store, baker, pharmacist (I'm not sure if I translated that correctly, they sell over the counter medication, make-up, and various self-care and hygiene products), pet shop, cafe, restaurant, two different types of snack bars, flower shop, book store, and a store that sells various housekeeping equipment (vacuum cleaners, kitchen tools, etc.) And that's just one small shopping centre, if I walk there, take a left, and walk through a park, I end up at another supermarket with a medical centre. If instead of that I open my window I could throw a ball at a daycare and since my street took mixed use to the extreme (each building is both a home and a business in one), I could take driving lessons at my neighbour's or have art printed professionally a few doors over.

[@hugocast]

That’s awesome :) I do love my walkable community in Florida, but I also enjoy owning a car. We have over 1300 km of beaches in Florida and the best way to explore them all is by driving. I am grateful I can enjoy the best of both worlds :)

[@user-ed7et3pb4o]

@@bramvanduijn8086t’s called a pharmacy, so you were basically right! The pharmacist is the trained professional who works in the pharmacy and dispenses medications:) I’m British though, I think Americans might use the term ‘drug store’ more often instead. Drugstores do sell makeup etc as well as just medicine though.

[@parisgermain523]

​@@hugocast Well, the thing is, we have beaches here in the Netherlands and you can explore all of them by bike . Agreed, 1300 km of coastline is better explored by car, but our West coast is 350 km long and it's amazing by bike. You can safely ride your bike parallel to the beach and feel the breeze as you look to your left/right to see the ocean. Another great thing is, most people can safely ride their bikes from their home towns all the way to the beach. Something you can't replicate in most of Florida, at least not safely. E.g. Fort Lauderdale, there's a road parallel to the beach, but it's exclusively for cars, and the sidewalk is filled with pedestrians, can't bike there.

[@KJSvitko]

Walking, running, bicycles, escooters, green open spaces, electric buses and trams are all parts of a good transportation system

[@Zooz.]

e-scooters are illegal in the Netherlands. Thankfully, because in other cities it seems to lead to sidewalks and streets littered full of them.

[@ronaldderooij1774]

...and trains.

[@bramvanduijn8086]

@@Zooz. No they're not, as long as the motor is there to support and they're just limited to how much power they may have, then they're treated the same as e-bikes. It is only when there is a throttle or the motor is too powerful that the model must pass an inspection before they're allowed. Anyway, it is under development.

[@SanderSA-ny3lh]

@@bramvanduijn8086 And since 99 out of 100 do not have that certification, they are effectively banned. It's an acceptable generalisation

[@teaser6089]

@@Zooz. Ehm no, they are just as legal as actual Scooters

[@Lunavii_Cellest]

I am currently living on the outskirts of Helmond in Mierlo-Hout and it is really nice. It is quiet and we are surrounded by nature whilst still living decently compact. We have a grocery store an eight minute walk away and going to college in 's-Hertogenbosch which is around 40km away takes only 50 minutes door to door due to the trainstation being only 300 meters away. Going anywhere in the city, you can easily cycle there due to the safe streets and cyclepaths going all troughout the city. And when we need to drive it is very fast and comfortable. Living here gives a feeling of peace whilst being extremely well connected to the rest of the Netherlands by all types of transportation.

[@daanwillemsen223]

Yes Helmond! Gotta love our 4 train stations. Living in Mierlo Hout has improved in the last years, especially since the Goorlooppark has opened. Groetjes uit Helmond West 😉

[@LoveToday8]

How lovely! Truly! I live in Chicago and while transit within the city is good by United States' standards🙃 in some ways we're not as well connected to suburbs and other parts of Illinois. Yes there's commuter rail but many of the routes only run once every one or two hours. A train to further locales runs even less frequently and the hours aren't convenient. This video was inspiring yet heartbreaking for someone living in the United States.

[@rwrunning1813]

The thing for me is just how beautiful Dutch cities are. The bricks. The red bike lanes. The design of commercial buildings and signage. The visual consistency and simplicity. The efficient use of space. The trees. The way that every area is a place where people are MEANT to be. The way waterways are valued. The way the roads are intact. It makes me so sad that we may never get to experience that.

[@chrisdaigle5410]

In several trips to Netherlands, I noticed how everything was so very neat. Almost zero litter. No dead cars, junk or clutter.

[@1nnu3ndo]

There is a reason for the visual consistency. For example in the Netherlands if you want to paint the window frames at the front of your house in a different colour you need to get permission from the city council first.

[@Madesobe]

​@chrisdaigle5413 you obviously don't 'live' here. Visiting a place is much different than living somewhere and experience real life as a Canadian Expat in The Netherlands (3yrs). While some examples in this video are very valid, what ppl fail to recognize is how the sheer scale of Canadian cities vs Dutch cities makes it like comparing apples to oranges. Not everything is perfect and idyllic here, and living in a place where everyone and everything must conform to one standard (and be extremely compact) might not be as great as you imagine... this is an extremely socialist and conformist society which our North American societies are not so much (not at the same strict level). Most Dutch ppl we know who have moved to North America/Canada, always comment on how they prefer it there for many reasons. So the grass is always greener... though again I would agree there are some things we can and should improve in Canadian cities and suburbs based on models like you have in NL and the Nordics. There's just so much to unpack in these types of videos... and it's so funny to see how quick comments in favor of one model seems to be posted by ppl who usually have never experienced actually living in these places.

[@chrisdaigle5410]

@@Madesobe That's a long winded way to say there must be litter and the place isn't neat? I don't understand your long response otherwise. All I said was that everything is neat and clean with no litter and dead cars etc.

[@Madesobe]

@chrisdaigle5413 perhaps a bit long winded... indeed, there is litter and not perfectly neat. It's easier not to have broken down cars around when there are significantly fewer cars here (cost so much and less space...). There is litter, oh there is - just not on the same scale and perhaps less visible to tourists.

[@PhotonBeast]

As you only touched upon it briefly, it's relevant to call out the common and communal areas. Lots of blocks and units of housing in Amsterdam also contain an inner courtyard which is shared or divided among units. There's also a tendency to have bigger communal gardens and areas - within a few blocks of where I am in Amsterdam (which is just outside the center), there is a big urban garden with athletic areas for public use and a general green area for the same. You don't really see these in American suburbs; if you do, it tends to be under control of an HOA rather than truly communal. These spaces heavily adds to the community feel since, well... they're literally for people to use.

[@sdtok527]

Also the amount of playgrounds found in almost every neighborhood. Many Dutch people had similar upbringings on those. In the summer me and the local children would walk towards those ourselves via the pedestrian friendly walkways and gather all together to play games. No need for every parent to be present, it was a safe environment.

[@PhotonBeast]

@@sdtok527 That is a good call out too! There are many urban playgrounds around the city in all sizes and placements.

[@robgrey6183]

In the United States these "communal" areas will likely be taken over by gangs, drug dealers, or homeless bums.

[@humanecities]

5:41 There’s a new neighbourhood in Calgary (Alpine Park) with some single family homes opening onto a green space that features a sidewalk, fire pit, and a community garden. It’s a very small percentage of the homes in the area, but it’s a great start to showing Canadians what’s possible.

[@adorabell4253]

WE don't even need to look at new stuff. Toronto has a ton of older suburbs that do the same. My area, built as a 50s suburb, is centred around a park with playground. It has pedestrian access only and back yards have doors opening out into the park.

[@AssBlasster]

Just south of the border in Spokane Washington, we have a new neighborhood Kendall Yards that has a great mix of urban amenities like playgrounds, a main street with grocery store, near a city bike trail, and actual "missing middle" housing. This change is happening but slowly.

[@humanecities]

@@AssBlasster that’s awesome! I’ll have to look it up!!

[@transportationland6395]

Would pocket neighbourhoods count under this?

[@humanecities]

@@transportationland6395 I’d never heard of a pocket neighbourhood before! But having just googled it, I’d say so! Sounds like you could turn a lot of already built areas into a pocket neighbourhood if all the neighbours got together and wanted it.

[@yuriydee]

I try talking to my friends here in US about this but its so hard to convince people that they do not need a huge mansion with a huge yard and driveway to live happily. I feel like the mindset here in US is just too far gone for a lot of people. Whats the point of a huge nice backyard when you live in middle of nowhere and gather together with friends/family once a month (if even at that)? Much rather live closer to people and be able to meet up on a whim than making a whole day gathering out of it.

[@saratemp790]

People in the us like space and nature. So what?

[@ceooflonelinessinc.267]

I am from europe and I would prefer to live in an US suburb. I think many people find the US housing system appealing because it provides in comparison to the european one more what most people wish for in life. Wheter you like it or not, should be labeled as a personal opinion, not as a fact as it is portrayed in these "channels".

[@helenooft9664]

But your children are living in a jail, can not going outside with friends without the parents.@@saratemp790

[@mcj2219]

I wish we had big houses and lots of nature surrounding it in the Netherlands. Instead leftists advocating and building the same crappyhouses wherever they can

[@windvlaag4404]

People in the NL also like space and nature. There are enough people not happy with destroying the cultural landscape of the country. But house are necessary to live.

[@MariekevanBuytene]

I saw my old house in Biesland in this video! We lived there for about 10 years when the children were small. There were always other kids around to play with and they could safely play on the socalled 'woonerf' streets, where cars have to drive at walking pace, and in the many playgrounds and green areas. Cheers!

[@ededdandeddy162]

I grew up in a town called Voorthuizen in the Netherlands. I kind of took for granted al the freedom I had took explore and be independent as a kid. My friends and i would just set out on a Friday and build huts in forests nearby where we always would cycle to. We just had to be home by 6 pm, that was it. Really appreciate those moments looking back now.

[@teaser6089]

I was born in Voorthuizen as well, moved to Barneveld when 4, but visited my grandparents a lot in Voorthuizen! What a small world isn't it, now I live in South Limburg, in a little town called Simpelveld :D

[@gilbertho-kang-jou239]

I live in Biesland. And I love it. It's near Delft, The Hague and Rotterdam. When my daughters were little they would play in streets all day because the cars would drive by on a walking speed and always pay attention to the little ones. And a lot of children play in the streets! I am fortunate to have quite a large garden behind our house. In spring and summer we enjoy sitting here near the waterside untill late in the evening. It's like living far away from the busy and crowded places, but it only takes about 10 minutes by bike or car to get to the centre of Delft. The part where I live has different types of houses next to each other which makes it enjoyable to watch. We bought this house before it was built, we are the first owners. But I can tell you that we're not going to move to another house for a very long time. It's nice and quiet living here. It really makes you enjoy the time you spend at home. Like most people living in my neighbourhood. It makes me happy to know I am going home when I am on my way. Thank you for the great article!

[@switzerlandch4986]

I went to The Netherlands in April and cycled through some of the suburbs between Rotterdam and The Hague. It's fair to say it's the best cycling experience I've ever had, and it made me wish I lived in one of those houses!

[@theoneandonlyAeth]

Just gotta bring a fucking fortune unfortunately, we're dealing with a crazy housing crisis in the Netherlands at the moment

[@freudsigmund72]

@@theoneandonlyAeth it depends on the amount and speed at which houses can be built. Unfortunately the nitrogen-oxide-crisis plays a big part in blocking any kind of solution and those largly responsible for the nitrogen-oxides emissions refuse to play a part in working towards a solution.

[@dicknr1]

And for us dutch the holland provinces are considered our worst most scammy places we have. Where tourists fall for clowned culture while the other 10 provinces function very differently and have even better design and budget... SMH...

[@theoneandonlyAeth]

​@@freudsigmund72 Part of it is the NOx, an equal part of it is dreadful policy that has liberalised the market to hell.

[@N3v3r_S3ttl3]

@@dicknr1 The major cities are worst for cycling on average, but smaller towns and villages are definitely fine in both North and South Holland.

[@TheRealE.B.]

Part of the problem in North America is that suburbs buy a fire truck designed to fight fires at 20-story apartment buildings, even though no such buildings exist in there, and then demand that all of the streets be wide enough for the truck to easily maneuver. Meanwhile, I hear that Paris has improved its fire response times because the bike lanes can also double as emergency vehicle access, and cyclists can hop out of the way a lot faster than gridlocked cars can.

[@hendman4083]

Just do a search on "european vs american firetrucks", and you will quickly learn that european firetrucks are much, much smaller while being able to transport more firefighters, equipment, and even water.

[@ChasmChaos]

@@hendman4083 you weren't kidding. Pasting what I found An American-style 100-foot turntable ladder might have a 5.8m wheelbase and a 12m overall length, whereas a typical European 32-meter ladder is more like a 4.8m wheelbase and 10m overall length Prior to 2017, London's fire brigade only operated 32m ladders - which can only reach the 10th floor of a tower block - because at the time of purchase, the longer ladders on the market would have struggled to navigate London's streets. LFB recently got some 64m ladders (to reach the 20th floor) after an awful fire in a 24-storey tower block which killed a lot of people. Surprisingly, the new ladder trucks aren't actually that much bigger in terms of wheelbase - but they're twice the weight, have four axles instead of 2, and the telescoping ladder has 7 sections instead of the usual 4/5.

[@matthiasgeuze1850]

The typical American fire truck is also a great example of a huge miss design. They are way to big and carry just a few pieces of equipment and firefighters. They also don't have a high pressure unit and water tank. In the Netherlands firefighters can put water on the fire 30 seconds after arrival, in the US it takes at least 4 minutes before they have connected all the hoses to a water supply.

[@hansd3295]

with you americans everything is big and many, the meals, the drinks, the trucks, the cars, the houses. In Europe we have the same building fires, so the same problems, only the fire trucks are a lot smaller. They do the same job, with 6 men in less time.

[@extrastuff9463]

Oversized fire engines getting stuck in narrow streets reminds me of what happened in Leeuwarden (Dutch city in the north of the country) a few years ago with a big fire in one of the older streets along a canal. Not an issue for a normal fire engine we've got or some of the longer special capability vehicles, but due to the scale of the fire someone made the choice to send a crashtender from the nearby military airbase 5km away by road to the fire. It got stuck somewhere along the way in a turn. I guess they were desperate for more water on the fire? But that's normally not an issue, those things are not suitable outside the larger roads and especially not there. If I'm not mistaken the model being used at the time was already one of those current E-One titan 8x8 things. Has 4 axles with 8 wheel drive, 12000L water capacity, 500-750L foam, over 200kg of powder, etc. They are 12-15m long and have an absurd top speed of 125 km/h. Basically oversized fire engines to deal with burning airplanes on wide open terrain, but they can come in handy for big industrial/rural fires.

[@PhilipSalen]

Nice cameo of solar panels on the townhomes at 2:45. Fantastic video, a great watch!

[@DoomThinking]

One (slightly pedantic but nontheless important) comment: In the travel times by mode diagrams you show, there is one important category left out: Bike + transit. Often people bike to the station, or even have a second bike (the beater bike) at the station of their place of work. NJB (once again) has a great video on this topic.

[@OhTheUrbanity]

I don't believe that would have been relevant for these relatively short trips, but for many intercity trips, biking to the train station would definitely be common

[@kjh23gk]

I get the feeling they don't like NJB.

[@jasonriddell]

IMHO for most I doubt that is an expected way I can see bike > train > walk OR tram but have a hard time imagining someone stationing a bike in a storage just for the other end of there train trip (some do yes)

[@user-ed7et3pb4o]

@@jasonriddellthey wouldn’t station a bike in storage, they would just use one of the hire bikes that every city has and which is included in most transport passes.

[@roy_hks]

@@jasonriddell The vast majority of students I know that live outside of the city (including myself) have so called “station bikes” stalled at the stations to make the last mile to school. Granted; we’re more likely to take public transit if it were viable, but it just isn’t. My college has one bus line running straight from the main station to the college/uni where 60.000 people study, busses run approximately every minute in rush hour (they just line up, get filled and move along) but you’ll easily lose 15 minutes waiting in line.

[@tobydissel]

I live in the Netherlands, born and raised, and want to add one thing to your comment about the condition of the roads. Generally, some form of cobblestone is used for residential streets, whereas asphalt is primarily used for arterials (and cyclepaths). These residential roads require a lot less maintenance than if they were asphalt.

[@PhotonBeast]

It also mildly discourages driving/driving fast which helps keep speeds down and encourages drivers to use main roads rather than cut through residential streets.

[@foreverdead1248]

I would imagine it's because cobblestone are individual pieces, allowing them to shift on their own without disrupting the other stones around them. In contrast, asphalt is one large piece, so if one spot sinks or rises it will crack the area around it, causing the holes. Plus, it's probably much easier to lift up cobblestone to correct the ground underneath it than it is tearing up whole sections of asphalt and repaving it.

[@David-bi6lf]

You mean brick paving not cobblestone. You certainly wouldnt be paving with cobblestones, thats the surface used on roads dating back to the Roman ages, extremely bumpy, we still have some in the UK in historic areas. Sometimes brick paving is used in the UK but mostly asphalt, there's no uniformatty or standards to anything like in the Netherlands, just a mess.

[@LeafHuntress]

@@David-bi6lf In most cases, yes it's brick paving. But cobblestones also exist to give it that extra historic feeling. Yes, often that's in actual historic cities or towns like Elburg or Bourtange.(look them up!) But it happens also in more modern settings, like there used to be a castle here, but it was demolished in 1465, now there is a suburb & we put a park & playground there and cobblestones around it to make it more "authentic".

[@jasonriddell]

@@LeafHuntress assume stones may be from the ruins of the castle?

[@tay-lore]

It frustrates me so much that in an American neighborhood, where every house has a driveway and a garage with parked cars, the streets are still filled with parked cars...

[@ChasmChaos]

Because if you invited 2 families over, they will show up in 3 separate cars.

[@tay-lore]

@ChasmChaos I guarantee the entire block aren't each having individual houseparties... we just have a problem

[@jasonriddell]

@@tay-lore yup Both parents AND the KID "NEEDS" there OWN car to do ANYTHING

[@tay-lore]

@Rodosom ... yeah... the Earth is dying...

[@betweenyourloveandmine]

I feel like the perception of many people bicycles only work in cities, but I feel like in suburban areas they can be even better, as long as the area is not completely sprawled out and places like stores are relatively close by. Cycling infrastructure can probably be so much easier and cheaper to build because there's more space and there aren't as many people moving around either by walking or driving. Like I live in a place in Germany that's kinda a mix between suburban and rural and it is so easy and comfortable to cycle. I can just cycle to the closest town to buy stuff or take a train to the closest big city. In that city on the other hand cycling can be way scarier and just not comfortable. There aren't as many separated bike lanes (and the ones that exist often just end) , way more cars and also way more pedestrians so you can't cycle on the side walk if there isn't a bike lane.

[@kailahmann1823]

Yep. Most Germany suburbs don't need bike infrastructure, they are bike infrastructure - because the streets are more like oversized bike lanes. Nobody drives faster than 30 there, not because it's illegal, but because it's impossible.

[@roy_hks]

Coming from a smaller, less dense town in the Netherlands I wholeheartedly agree with you. You’re stuck with the same traffic lights in cities, cycle paths are easily overcrowded and thus despite the great infrastructure cycling can still feel dangerous and stressful, and parking spaces are hard to find even for bikes. Meanwhile, in suburban-like areas cycling is so much fun. It’s much faster than taking the car because neighborhoods don’t allow thru traffic for cars but are interconnected by bike infrastructure, it’s nice and quiet, and everything you need is nearby but on a much smaller and slow-paced scale. And when you take a train into the city, you’ll not even be in need of a bike because you’re dropped off right in the heart of the city with plenty of pedestrian or PT options at hand.

[@Littleweenaman]

My dream is for the suburban and rural areas to be accessible by bike even with some simple connector trails and a gravel path you can do so much in terms of walkability a lot of towns near me are turning old railroad tracks into bike highways and it’s made such a huge difference

[@DeKevers]

I am in the Netherlands as you post this, as a British person I can’t believe how easy it is around Haarlem and Amsterdam to get around, let alone safe!

[@chrisdaigle5410]

On our first Netherlands trip, we used Haarlem as a base and did day tours and overnight tours of the southern part of the country. We met an Englishman named Bob at our hotel and talked to him at breakfast. Never about where we were going that day. We rode our bikes out every morning and visited towns like Hoorn, Edam, Alkmaar etc. We kept meeting Bob in those towns, who traveled there with trains, trams and buses pretty much everywhere we went. He enjoyed his tour and found it easy to travel by public transportation.

[@pappi187]

I’m from Haarlem and I agree with you.

[@lavonnealexander6936]

Like safety 😂😂😂

[@WriteInAaronBushnell]

I went to Amsterdam in my honeymoon and thought it was paradise. I had no idea it could be cheaper to buy a house outside Amsterdam than Boston. I am learning Dutch

[@TheSuperappelflap]

I dont know where you heard that but average housing prices in the Netherlands are 500K USD for a home and the prices around Amsterdam are literally the highest in all of Europe excluding city states like Monaco. I'd be surprised if you could find anything remotely near Amsterdam for less than 800K.

[@Volkbrecht]

Cheap is relative. European incomes are heavily taxed in comparison to the U.S.. Unless you have already saved up the money, you'll have to have a pretty high earning job to make enough for buying real estate over here.

[@Zedprice]

Excellent video! This design is what melted my brain when I visited the Hague. I had lived in both the US and Japan, so this middle ground, with few cars and comfortable urbanism was incomprehensible at the time.

[@een_schildpad]

Love this look into what other places have done!!! I'd agree, I really like this mix of density and access. I'm not a huge fan of super large cities, but I very much love the idea of proximity to neighbors and services without requiring a car.

[@Valektrum]

This video was so good! Turns out suburbs don't have to suck, we just suck at building them.

[@falconwaver]

Would love to see a collab between you and not just bikes on the difference between Dutch suburbs, Riverdale and car dependant suburbs.

[@tomwilson2804]

I was thinking there might be a cameo at some point.

[@SoybeanAK]

@@nunyabidness3075 Well put. The biggest reason I love this channel, like Strong Towns, is a focus on showcasing what works and offering solutions and everyday actions. NJB is just another culture warrior dunking on everyone who thinks differently to give himself and his followers the dopamine hit of being smarter than "the other tribe."

[@SanderSA-ny3lh]

NJB's racism and dogmatic attitude are insufferable, so big 'nope' on that.

[@anddickson]

I follow NJB, I’m here as well so there’s definitely a crossover potential (not that it’s needed) Oh Urbanity and NJB are doing the same good work with different approaches, both have their uses. Let’s face it ! Sometimes being “Mr nice guys” doesn’t win you any points, and I’m happy he’s being intentionally combative!

[@SoybeanAK]

@@anddickson Being a jerk doesn't "win any points" either. Combative? Well, people who are right and sure of it can make strong arguments without worrying who's bothered by being proven wrong. Insulting, unproductive snark, body shaming, and non-sequitur put-downs are the behavior of an insecure bully who's looking for the dopamine hit of a superiority complex. Perhaps you don't mind NJB because you already agree with his points- as do I, generally- but people who aren't already on board aren't swayed by bullying behavior. So, do you want to win converts, or do you want to make fun of your potential allies for not knowing something? Personally I'm far more swayed by reason than insults.

[@duncanrobertson6472]

I've been waiting for someone to make this video for ages! I got interested in urbanism through channels like NJB, and I found myself fully on board with most of it, but I'm just not interested in fully-dense city living. I knew the Dutch must have well-designed suburbs - quieter and more bikeable than what I've experienced in the US. I recently drove through Portland and there's some nice mixed-use neighborhoods there, but there's some things the Dutch just do better, and it's cool to get a window into how suburbs _could_ be designed. I'm glad you talked about affordability as well. Anyway, thanks so much for this video, you guys have quickly become one of my favorite KZbin channels! There's a lot of people putting out great urbanist videos, but you always seem to answer the exact questions I wonder about.

[@wodediannao4577]

Great video! I often think of a NotJustBikes video where he mentions that bike lanes are better in the suburbs in the Netherlands because there's more room. And when I'm in the suburbs in North America, I recognize how cheap and easy it'd be to put a bike lane or even a sidewalk on sprawling lots, but the people who made these suburbs think anyone who can't or doesn't want to drive should just f--- off.

[@humanecities]

It’d be so easy to add bike lanes in some places, right? By my place, there are a few main roads that could have very nice, wide bike infrastructure without taking any space away from cars. Hopefully we can get that stuff built!

[@JustClaude13]

@@humanecities Almost all the main roads could have worthwhile bike lanes if the car lanes were narrowed to match the speed limit. A 35 mph road doesn't need 12 foot wide freeway lanes.

[@humanecities]

@@JustClaude13 I concur! It is absolutely bonkers how wide our lanes are.

[@jasonriddell]

@@JustClaude13 add in the "brick" lines for car parking and toss in some tree planters ETC to PREVENT driving in "parking" spaces again making the driving area narrower without REMOVING anything and just adding stuff

[@ruthlloyd1163]

We have bike lanes all over but no one uses them.

[@iamjoestafford]

What a great video, and so well timed - I got home today from a week cycling around The Netherlands, and I was having exactly the same thoughts about Dutch suburbia! They demonstrate so perfectly that you can have the best of both worlds - you can drive a car and have a garden, but you can also have a bus line or light rail stop within walking distance, bars/restaurants and grocery stores/supermarkets nearby and dedicated cycle paths. They are safer for children, and they are such pleasant places to spend time - even at 'rush hour', I barely saw any heavy traffic. The suburbs around Almere and Lelystad particularly impressed me, but they are just as good around the whole country. One thing that may surprise your viewers is the fact that the Dutch own more cars per head than the British - and they have a particular love for American muscle cars! The difference is that they don't need to use them for absolutely every journey, giving them more time and money to spend on other things.

[@jamalgibson8139]

With regard to housing affordability, I'm glad you guys showed housing prices, but I would have liked to see a comparison with median income. Also, a note on how having only one car per household helps keep your overall costs down to allow you to afford these relatively expensive homes. It would have also been nice to see a comparison to Montreal housing just to get a feel for the difference. I understand that might be a video in itself, but if would be nice to see if you have the time. One other thing I want to mention is how Dutch cities appear to use water features (canals, ponds) as integral to the neighborhood. You rarely see that in America; most water is either a river, a stream/ditch, or a retention pond next to a highway. It would be nice if US cities actually incorporated water features like that into neighborhoods.

[@WouterNederstigt]

The water retention is actually in our laws. If a developer designs a neighbourhood, a certain percentage of its surface area needs to be water. A quick search nets that its between 8 and 16 percent. A house on the water also nets more profit, so developers have an incentive to build water features. The past 30 years you can see a lot of townhouses built with their back gardens on a pond as in 9:59 in the video. As for the reasoning behind the law, I guess it's important for water management. We can't just shed all the rainwater into local waterways, as those are sometimes below sealevel. Therefore a higher emphasis is made on water retention and ground penetration as opposed to water shedding.

[@WouterNederstigt]

As for the income, the median income is around 36.000 euro, so the houses shown are pretty much unaffordable for a one income family. We also have a housing crisis over here. But the 300k and maybe the 400k houses are pretty much affordable for a two income family. Two starter's incomes without student debt would just about get you the 300k house.

[@lizcademy4809]

Comparing housing prices to Montreal alone doesn't help those of us who don't know much about the city. I think listing the prices in a variety of currencies and the size in both measurement systems is enough ... I could easily compare to the size and prices in my city. [The Netherlands is a little more expensive, only a little.] Like I mentioned on a different channel yesterday, a lot of the North American problem is an emotional one of "personal space". Even if the housing unit is the same size inside, we (generally speaking) feel uncomfortable sharing a wall with a neighbor. The large yards give an emotional feeling of space, even if they're never used. Take those yards away, and we feel crowded, even though the yard space is useless. [I'm talking population level here ... I personally live in an upper flat of a duplex and don't feel crowded at all. I did not feel less crowded when I lived in Suburbia.] We need to break through that irrational emotional wall (yard?) before higher density family housing becomes common in North America.

[@PhotonBeast]

The tricky aspect is that income gets you different things and how the different systems work. So I believe the median income in Amsterdam is around 40k which is lower than America. However, alot of things go into this. The income gap is smaller - barring the ultra-wealthy, the average gap between high and low earners is 4x. Housing under a certain value is also socialized (or regulated, as we would call it in the States). Taxes are higher, but you also tend to get a lot more (healthcare, for example) - plus, lots of stuff comes in smaller amounts such as food so you tend to get less food waste (and so less costs). Also, The Netherlands has a very housing first approach to things - it is incredibly hard to evict a tenant in a short time frame unless they've done something illegal; to the point that even if you loose your job, you typically can stay in your place without paying rent for a short time. How much this applies also depends on that house value (again, socialized/regulated hosing will be a lot more protective). Dutch mortgages also only factor in income and nothing else. As far as the water features; that's both a cultural and practical thing. :) The Netherlands is below sealevel with the ocean and multiple rivers feeding into it. The water features as as much function as they are aesthetic.

[@jamalgibson8139]

I appreciate all the responses! With respect to the water, many of you may not realize that a lot of NA cities are built on rivers with lots of water nearby. So we absolutely have water concerns, and that's one reason why floods in America can be so devastating. If we had better water management laws like described by some of you, perhaps new Orleans wouldn't have gotten destroyed by Katrina. I personally cross a ton of little bridges on my way to work every day, and I wish we could take better advantage of these creeks and ponds like what they showed in this video.

[@mdhazeldine]

The Dutch build modern suburbs better than anyone else in my view. I could be wrong, but I suspect their great land use is something to do with the fact that they have a lot of people and not a lot of land. So much so that they literally reclaimed the sea to make more of it. It's driven them to be efficient with what they have. The U.S. and Canada have so much land, and the car enabled them to travel so far in less time that they got lazy and just spread out, not realising the negative consequences that would bring decades into the future. It's not impossible to fix, but it is hard.

[@OhTheUrbanity]

It's true, the lack of land in the Netherlands definitely contributes to the more compact development patterns. I think the first step for North Americans should be to recognize that while we do have big countries, many of our cities actually have major land limitations too. The most extreme cases are Vancouver, San Francisco, and Los Angeles, but even Toronto and Chicago have something like 40% of their room to expand just nullified by their respective lakes. But all of these places still have major density limits for some strange reason.

[@mdhazeldine]

@@OhTheUrbanity Yep you're right. And the density of Southern Ontario is pretty high compared to the Canadian average. It's not all that different from a typical European country if you look at the London-Toronto-Montreal corridor.

[@jacktattersall9457]

@@OhTheUrbanity Not to mention, the Greater Toronto Area cannot really expand to much without touching some of the nest and only good farmland in the country, such as Holland Marsh (the Dutch at it again) and Niagara Fruit Belt. That is why the Greenbelt is not and cannot be the solution to the housing crisis that Fordnation wants it to be!

[@udishomer5852]

While the Dutch have a very high population density there are other countries with similar or higher density (South Korea, Taiwan, Israel, India, Lebanon, Bangladesh, Malta, Bahrain, Rwanda, Mauritius, Haiti, Belgium). The Dutch do stand out with their excellent urban planning.

[@tokiomitohsaka7770]

@@OhTheUrbanity That’s because the NIMBYs oppose any denser developments as it “ruins the character”, but what it actually means is that they want to keep housing shortage so the value of their homes will be higher, and landlords can charge more rent. These restrictions are a big part of the homelessness crisis in the US.

[@lkruijsw]

Also to mention, in some American suburbs a lot of lots are just not occupied. Making the density even lower.

[@sirquasi]

Absolutely your best video I've seen. It touched on so many relevant subjects and explains so many things that a lot of North American suburbians don't seem to understand. Keep up the good work.

[@rudinah8547]

Love this video, been wanting to hear about Dutch suburbs for a while. Though the densities you're discussing are so far from my USA east coast upbringing, I grew up in two towns, with densities of 1k/sqkm and 200/sqkm 😂, about 50 miles outside of Boston.

[@arturobianco848]

If you want good services in a walking bike-able distance you need a higher densety otherwise its not econamical viable. Wich i don't think North america suburbs are even for living in it. The local "tax" rates must be insane to pay for road water and sewege disposal. Or very bad after they need to be replaced.

[@rudinah8547]

@@arturobianco848 I totally agree, though I always felt like car free existence is very easy for such low density suburbs, with e-bikes so amazing already. There's so much empty land that creating a fully separated bike road network seems east, and I bet the cost savings on car road maintenance would be significant.

[@derechte2362]

I have worked in the Netherlands in different cities for round about a year (one of the cities was the Hague) and I can just confirm everything said in this video. Dutch cities are truly unique and I really enjoyed spending my time there😊

[@jimlabbe8258]

Nijmegen has some great examples of newer bike friendly suburban neighborhoods.

[@jessevousten5057]

Dude this was such a good video. Your vibes are so good, your jokes land, your insights are relevant and well thought out and you obviously know what you are talking about. Great video, more please!!

[@seth_deegan]

Your footage is amazing! Much better views than what you can get on Google Maps. Thank you!

[@ClairvoyantTruth]

The fact that Toronto passed a city wide zoning change last month to allow multi-unit buildings is one of the greatest victories and there is so little fanfare about it. One law change is going to reform this city.

[@jasonriddell]

IMHO "no fanfare" IS A GOOD THING as it will happen "naturaly" and NOT be publicized and blocked / protested by people WANTING the same ol same ol IE unlimited housing price growth

[@theultimatereductionist7592]

@@jasonriddell I understand but ALL publicity is GOOD publicity, INCLUDING for POSITIVE LAW ZONING changes like this! Let the crybaby nimbys whine. Publicizing this important zoning change will ONLY GIVE MORE COURAGE TO MORE POLITICIANS TO DO THE SAME!

[@machtmann2881]

Oh I'd definitely love these suburbs over NA ones for sure. NA suburbs are a bit extreme as you say and the thing is, the development pattern of giant houses and lawns are everywhere. There are some of us who would gladly give up more lawn space for better communal space where we could actually get to know the people who live around us. But we're often not given that choice in NA. It's often either giant, isolated house in the suburbs or small cramped space in the city. I'd like another choice but it's often not available in NA.

[@jasonriddell]

the MISSING middle

[@timokho20]

Cities like chicago, philadelphia, san fransisco, boston, new york, does have a lot of the middle ground you're looking for. Prices will be higher than suburbs but comparatively the same to the netherlands.

[@collateral7925]

One other benefit from this setup is that you can use your time more efficiently and have more time left in your week after you subtract the things that always need to be done. Work, shops, etc. are closer together and accessible in multiple ways, meaning less travel time and time in traffic, and more time to allocate as you wish. For me, this is one of the main reasons I want to go back to the Netherlands after having lived multiple years abroad.

[@florisjansen5576]

Thank you for making this video, as North American cities can learn a lot from us.While the concept of the Dutch suburb is great, it come with some flaws. While the suburbs in the video are directly adjecent to major cities, there's also some sprawl, often connected by two lane roads and (very) limited public transport. Most times public transport options will decrease when you leave the city region, making these towns fairly car dependend and this will cause some local congestion. It will also cause households having more than 2 cars. Due to the lack of parking space it can be hard to find a spot as a guest. In some streets it's common that there's unwritten rules about who parks in which public parking spot, and dare you break those haha PS home prices are through the roof like in most countires...

[@sweetsunnyvibes]

Ah, so they still think they can CLAIM things (even if it can't be claimed) - reminds me of the United East India Company - same with how proud they are in their trading skills, how do you think they acquired them? 😅

[@mick0matic]

In the Netherlands we have alot of 'volkstuinen' or peoples gardens. These were (now theyve gone up in price) for working class people living in the city, so that even city people without much money could also have a nice garden. I think its a great way to have best of both worlds, still live in the city with all the great amenities and views yet have the option to jump on my bike and half an hour later im surrounded by trees and quiet, having a bbq in my garden. Thanks for the video!

[@matthiasgeuze1850]

De price of a 'volkstuin' depends really on the area where you are living. Currently I pay just €0.25 par square meter a year. So to rent 100m2 a year you pay just €25,- But for me it's just to grow my own veggies etc.

[@michielshub]

What is maybe interesting to know is that relative new townhouses as you call these, are actually separate build houses with a common outer façade and roof. With this I mean that the floors, ceilings and inner walls do not physically connect to your neighbors’ house, there is a gap in between. This way you basically do not hear your neighbors and as far as I know this is mandatory way of construction since a few decades.

[@xSunnyDaysx]

I live in Holland. But it fascinates me how other people can dissect and be so articulate on things that seem normal to me. It just make me a bit more grateful to live here.

[@lolololol7573]

They managed to explain why all of us have had this experience of 'vacation was great, but I am also glad to be back home again'. We've all had it at least a few times, and I think it's partially because of the car dependency in many other countries. I especially disliked shopping a lot when I'm on vacation. The huge massive supermarkets, having to drive there, big parking space, before you're home it's been over an hour at least just for shopping.

[@roccoisdaman]

I grew up in a town called Fair Lawn in New Jersey. Within it is a neighborhood called Radburn, and these Dutch suburbs remind me a lot of that area of town. The whole appeal of Radburn is that it is suburban homes, townhomes, and small apartments which are all backed by a communal park space. The park has playgrounds, a gazebo, a pool, and even an elementary school. You can walk between and behind the houses without ever coming into contact with cars, and the modes are intentionally kept separated. I would really recommend giving it a look if you want to see an example of something like this in North America. The catch is that Radburn was built all the way back in the 1920s, and originally the entirety of Fair Lawn was supposed to look like Radburn, but once the second world war ended it was simply cheaper to build the rest of the town Levittown-style, which they did unfortunately.

[@csillagtalan]

Just passed through Fair Lawn / Radburn on the train the other day -- oh yeah, they have a train station! Gets you either to Penn Station or downtown in ~45 minutes.

[@gember1382]

And this is footage of cities near big cities. When you go further from Amsterdam and the Hague, it gets more green and more rural and more affordable. It's nice to have schools in most neighborhoods, so kids go to school near their home and makes it easier to play with friends in the neighborhood. Walking home on their own.

[@albertodv2165]

I'm italian, where houses generally cost very less than the Netherlands, but for similar quality the prices here are the same. It's just that high quality buildings are more common in the Netherlands than here, i see

[@joaocoelho8320]

Gladly i live in one of those now and I couldn’t be happier! Netherlands is great

[@alexseguin5245]

Wow! Their suburbs look fantastic! Makes me want to live there.

[@castor652]

Me too. I'm a Dutch citizen with median income. No chance.

[@abel6846]

It’s all about zoning, isn’t it? To get a livable city/neighborhood you really, really need multi use zoning.

[@TrickiVicBB71]

Yes. If we want to change NA cities. We need to change how zoning works and then the rest should follow. (That is what I think)

[@kailahmann1823]

Yes and no. Having schools in the middle and groceries at the edge of a small neighborhood is probably already half the deal on that end. Another important aspect is removing the dead space between the houses, the massively oversized streets and front yards - often you could add an additional row of houses on the current street and place two new streets on a part of the front yards.

[@sizor3ds]

Narrow streets is a huge thing. Wide streets take up so much space, it’s absurd. Suburban lanes are often even wider than highway lanes.

[@cvbattum]

And ironically, many of these "good dutch suburbs" are awfully zoned. Sion, from this video, has nothing in the way of stores in the entire neighborhood or in walking distance. There's two that are relatively close (5-10mins by bike) in Delft and probably another one in Rijswijk. The people that live in the houses end up taking the car regardless, because it's extremely high-value housing for the lower upper class. Biesland in fact is plain upper class. From the video, both Biesland and Rijswijk are zoned pretty much identically to the Canadian example from the video. Only a couple school/daycare suburbs and nothing else except in the major towns. Source: live in Delft, used to deliver groceries in these neighborhoods.

[@TheSuperappelflap]

@@cvbattum Theres a reason that we call those neighbourhoods vinexwijken :P For the American (and Canadian) people reading this, the Netherlands has relatively newly built neighbourhoods that are famous for having nothing but houses, cars, and paved backyards, where dinkies go to live with other dinkies and smell each others farts. I wouldnt want to be found dead in one of those neighbourhoods. Appalling way to live. I much prefer a nice old small town with shops at walking distance and small old houses with nice architecture instead of copy pasted modern architecture with nary a tree in sight.

[@NeoMullen]

As a Dutch person I see these videos popping up quite often lately. It makes me think about how we design our towns. To be honest, the suburbs in the USA and Canada always seems so lovely to me, according to American movies (never been to a suburb myself). Huge gardens, lots of green and space. And it also seems so quiet because is less densely populated, especially the suburbs in the north, with a lot of pine-trees. I always wished to live in such a suburb. But I never asked myself about the infrastructure in these neighborhoods. I guess it's just another case where the grass is always greener in the other side (of the Atlantic Ocean) 😉

[@WhoStoleMyAlias]

The consequence of course of everything being spaced further apart is that you end up needing a car for practically everything. Which isn't a bad thing per se and yes like you I get vids like these in my recommended list and it continuously strikes me how people from across the big pond are looking at our country with rose-tinted glasses. The most common misconception being the idea that people live and work in the same city which due to urban planning has become extremely rare over the last fifty years. Most notoriously Amsterdam that chose to limit its growth to businesses only and pretty much literally told workers that wanted to live in the city to piss off and find a place to live somewhere at a reasonable car travel distance. So now bike enthusiasts are complaining that people drive into the city by car and how good it would be if these people stepped on a bike too (all the way from Almere) or took the sub (which doesn't travel the distance to Alkmaar) and they applaud when cities close roads for cars that would likely never have been there if our city planning had been more like in the US.

[@lolololol7573]

As a fellow Dutchie, the grass really does look greener until I also fell into the rabbit hole of multiple channels who talk about car dependency. It really put it in perspective how the American suburbs could be the best thing, but really are not. One of the biggest issues is the isolation, everybody is so far separated from each other literally. And you see this effect back in the trust of your neighbors (in US suburbs this is lower than in denser cities) which I bet you will also see back in politics. They have the word NIMBY (not in my back yard!) for a reason. Another is the distance, you have to drive to do anything. Just the thought of having to do groceries by car and having to drive like 15 minutes makes my skin crawl. And that's not even considering kids. Imagine children, who cannot bike or walk to school or to friends. That you become a taxi service so your children can go somewhere. They're basically on house arrest until they can drive a car - that's why it's so popular to get a car at 16 ears old. And those big homes? Let's be real the quality is... not great. Yes they're good and the reason they are built as they are were because of local products available. But they last much shorter than our average homes do, the really bad homes won't even last for 20 years. The reason they're so awfully big is because they like to bring everything to their home as it's all to far away. So their house is their main focus to offer that bit of relaxation. However, having a party in your garden won't ever allow you to meet strangers because you'll invite people you know. They'll never have the experience like we do when you sit on a terrace enjoying a beer, to have friends pass by randomly. If you haven't found his channel yet (I suspect you did, but just in case you didn't), check out Not Just Bikes. If you don't know his channel yet, you'll love it. He moved from Canada to Amsterdam a while ago. He traveled all over the world, has been nearly everywhere. And he started his channel trying to explain why he choose out of everything in the whole world, to live in the Netherlands (quite a compliment). His first video is something I recommend first for some context. Then watch the next video 'why city design is important - and why I hate Houston' because it shows the car dependency issue in the US and Canada really well. Then next consider 'why we won't raise our kids in suburbia' shows the amazing qualities of our Dutch neighborhoods that allowed us as children to grow up in. And lastly, the 'I got a new truck!' is pretty funny lol. Tbh you can watch them all but I highly recommend the 'why I hate Houston' one because it shows one of the problems of US suburbia and how it effects not just your quality of life, but what about poor people, the disabled who cannot drive (or visually impaired), but also the elderly etc. It really changed my perspective, I truly appreciate our Dutch neighborhoods like never before, and I even used everything I learned when I bought a house recently. We purposedly choose to not move further away from the city center, which is more expensive, but we learned what is really important to us and our future children.

[@lolololol7573]

@@WhoStoleMyAlias This is true, but they seem to confuse a lot of things really. It's so normal for us to travel daily by public transport, they don't even consider that when they move here. Amsterdam has a HUGE challenge ahead because never before have they had this many people move to the Netherlands (or just Amsterdam, mostly). Even universities are warning students to NOT COME HERE if they haven't found housing yet before college starts. Yet many of them still do, as Reddit shows us, and they act all surprised and upset when they cannot find a home. And then there's the American suburb lover who decided this might be better but they bring their massive SUV to the city. We see more and more American SUVS on the road lately. If you google 'An American car in the Netherlands' you'll see some examples why this should be banned in my opinion. It's a total mess right now. I hope Amsterdam stays Dutch and won't change it's ways to comfort those who are used to what is overseas. I also wish Amsterdam much luck because they were already having a lot of issues before all this.

[@foggy4180]

@@WhoStoleMyAlias You're absolutely right. I was born and raised in Amsterdam from 1958 and just like you said they pushed people to Lelystad, Almere and so on and it's normal that there are a lot of commuters every day. But from what I see is that the most of these people who make these videos are bike enthousiasts and look to the situation now but don't know anything about the history. They only want to see cars banned and at this moment you see the ridiculous plan that the Weesperstraat is closed for cars. I'm glad that I left Amsterdam 25 years ago and will never go back.

[@dl4608]

I’ve explored the back reaches of big and small cities and villages and the rest across broad stretches of the Netherlands. I can confirm that you have indeed captured some very representative areas that are readily found across the country, and have presented them accurately. The fact that these areas exist inside *and* outside the randstad, and are not restricted to, nor determined by, the regional density of their area, testifies to this being the product of a considered and deliberate national policy. It’s the reason why open areas are always nearby AND accessible, regardless of where you live or your default mode of transport. Keep up the great work!

[@Mimi_L.]

Dutch communities are so well designed. The world can learn so many things from them when it comes to urban planning.

[@lucasvanwijngaarden670]

2 car household are by no means unusual in the Netherlands, but it depends on the family, mostly on who works and if it's within biking distance. The suburbs are usually designed such that children who can safely bike by themselves can get everywhere they'd need to go for their day-to-day lives. That's probably the main reason why nearly every Dutchman knows how to ride a bicycle. If you teach your child to ride a bike and the basic traffic rules it can independently go to school, the stores and sports.

[@Tuning3434]

This! if you life in these suburbs, there is not a much to gain by going by car for day-to-day activities. But it should not be underestimated how much design intent influences behavior. Move any of those families in a house with a larger house / frontyard and expect car usage to go up. There is a compromise of hassle, and dutch infrastructure is purposely making cars less attractive, and bikes more convenient. It's all a consequence of geography. If you go 200 km more south to Luxembourgh / Reinland-Phalz, you will be begging to have a car if you live in one of the minor cities in that area. The Netherlands is pretty flat, so it is possible to optimize for it.

[@therealdutchidiot]

Comparing housing prices is fair, but you're literally looking at the most expensive places to live in the Netherlands. The Randstad region is not cheap.

[@RobinBentvelzen]

While I get your point, the Randstad is the suburbia region which is the main point of the video.

[@therealdutchidiot]

@@RobinBentvelzen It has suburban regions, sure. But to call the Randstad "the suburban region" is insane. Suburban regions are way more common in other places of the country. They weren't even describing suburbs, they were describing burroughs.

[@OhTheUrbanity]

@@therealdutchidiot We picked lower density areas on the edge of the city that were built relatively recently. If those aren't suburbs, what are?

[@therealdutchidiot]

@@OhTheUrbanity Suburbs are standalone towns, just outside of the city. Burroughs are still part of the city, only a little less dense. In the case of Amsterdam: Amstelveen is a suburb.

[@RobinBentvelzen]

@benvanvelzen9695 that depends on your definition of a suburb I guess. You use it as Voorstad while generally it seems to be used as Buitenwijk.

[@andrelam9898]

Thanks for sharing. I was born in Amsterdam, but my parents (and my mom's sister's family) all moved out by 1975. The city was over-run by cars, with the fumes, lack of space on sidewalks, etc, the city had become a not so great place to raise kids. We moved to a suburb of Haarlem called Schalkwijk and moved into a typical Dutch late 1960's apartment. We had a half mile long quarter mile deep park that we overlooked and allowed for lots of outdoor play space for me as a child. My aunt and family moved to Monnickendam, just a bit north of Amsterdam. Even in the mid 1970's the Dutch were already starting to perfect the "Woonwijk" aka living community. During the 1970's the concept of narrow roads. With extra narrow sections where only one car at a time could pass, but free flow of traffic on the sides for pedestrians and cyclists was perfected. What you all experienced was the evolution of decades of testing and adjusting. How to have a functional community, close to a city, with moderate density, easy entry and exit for cars, yet very cycling and walking friendly as well. A cousin of mine lives in a community just a bit outside of Leiden. There the community grew so big (built around 1990 and onward), that the direct car root to the hart of the old town next door was blocked for cars (busses can still pass), and forced drivers around the outside of the community. It adds just a couple of minutes of driving, but alleviated congestion where there were also the most pedestrians and cyclists. It's all very pragmatic. Narrow roads, large speed bumps, raised intersections all naturally keep drivers from going very fast. It allows for safe living for everyone. It does not require one to give up on having a car, but for most families, one car is enough. There are enough alternative transport options, that many trips don't require a car. That's the whole point of designing a neighborhood well.

[@neffyg35]

I'm in Philadelphia and we are getting more proper bike lanes but I'm still longing for dutch style lanes. I will say I never wanted to live in the suburbs because everything is just so far away but suburban Amsterdam looks so cute!

[@mikepictor]

As someone who grew up in Ottawa, and now lives in Amsterdam, I love your specific perspectives.

[@ravenbergdev]

Guy here from the Netherlands living in similar housing. I hate how low privacy it has. Everyone walking by can look in your living room, unless you have closed curtains the entire day.

[@TheSuperappelflap]

Thats a part of our culture. Why, do you have something to hide? I think its funny when people walk by my house and look inside. Just close the curtain at night when you have the lights on.

[@vaughnharp06]

Amazing video guys, we’ll done getting the footage and putting so much thought into it, and covering so many different aspects of the differences! One wish is that the slide showing the bar graph of commute times was shown longer and those points were hit home harder, I really believe one massive excuse for North Americans to not build bike lanes or bike anywhere if they had them is that the time to bike/or take public transportation is always slower here than in the Netherlands. Again, well done, I really love seeing this becoming more of a conversation with very real evidence! 🙌🏻

[@thaisdematte]

Those prices are absurdly high to me, but that's the price you pay to live around the Amsterdam area. I live 20min away (by train) from the central station of Amsterdam and I can assure you I didn't know what freedom of movement was since I left my city in Brazil. Great video, thanks for bringing it to us 😊

[@Madhijz]

everything within an hour of Amsterdam is stupidly overpriced. On top of the crazy prices that are the norm the country.

[@Banom7a]

@@Madhijz also there's a waitlist for rent in some building lol

[@aatirehrarsiddiqui8894]

I love videos like these. They give an average joe like me a very good and personal perspective on places I don't live in.

[@asliceofbread6249]

"The Netherlands is one of the more expensive countries in Europe for housing, so whether these suburbs seem “affordable” to you will depend on how crazy the housing market is in your current city." Me, a New Yorker, when I see the Dutch housing prices:👁👄👁

[@dicknr1]

you see prices of the scam provinces you mean. The holland regions which i am born at north, are scam provinces. make to extract the most out of ignorant tourists. Trying to make them think its the whole nation or where all happens. We dutch been over the years leaving those provinces because it constantly betrays our culture and values. Its constantly always about other cultures. pushing out our values to make room for theirs. Increasing prices to 400% of that of the east of the country for housing and so on. Its always the same with migrants and tourists. they make up stories thinking they know how a nation works. interviewing only locals or getting info from the provinces they land in and go to for all the stories that make it look like its specific to those provinces. The entire nation functions proper except those provinces. Insane crime, housing prices are a crime too 400% of other parts of the country. The roads are shit. the streets are too full and there is no comfort or fun in those cities. nothing there is authentic to them. Everything is better somewhere else in the nation. And all dutch know this. Meanwhile migrants and tourists make videos scamming people like you with false info. you can get a 150k house in lelystad of 120m2, or you can get 140-200m2 for 200k in the east. Meanwhile you get for half a million or more a tiny home, old, rotten away, with awful water pipes, power issues. more nonsense. And you get scammed for that while getting a 60-100m2 house for half a million or more. Meanwhile lets speak on rent: Amsterdam 1500 -3000 euro gets you a place to actually just live. not a room a tiny house. like 80m2 you easily pay over 2000-2500 for a month. Now in lelystad which i named before for 800 you have 120m2 house. now in Emmen which i named also you get for 650 140m2 or more. Dont be scammed by your fellow english speakers. never trust their sources. Ask true natives not migrant natives or tourists. they are 99% of the time retarded and give you wrong information.

[@arjanzweers6542]

That's what you get when land is sparce and have the highest population density in Europe, outside the micro nations. The ground to build on becomes very expensive due to high demand and very low supply, and the housing naturally becomes more expensive as well to off-set the cost of the land. Add to that the housing market set backs like the crisis from 2008 and the pandemic which slowed down the rate housing is being build in comparison to the demand, and you end up with a very expensive housing market.

[@willythemailboy2]

Me, in a 200k town away from big cities (i.e. not a suburb): Holy hell, I could get a mansion for that. Seriously, I found a listing for a 5 bedroom 8600 square foot house for 825k.

[@toonseten]

@@willythemailboy2 A Dutch guy here. Why does one need a five bedrooms house? Or are families bigger in North America?

[@willythemailboy2]

@@toonseten Some are certainly bigger. I'm one of five children; my mother was one of 11 (although not all at the same time). But more commonly "because we can".

[@VacuousCat]

When I traveled to Netherlands I rode from Delf to the suburb at its west. I had lunch there, it was nice.

[@Lexince]

Awesome video! I’m from a pretty central part of Montreal (I live there and was born and raised there) and whenever I visit my family in Suburban Ottawa, I always feel a culture shock and don’t really like suburban culture and this has been so even more since I started watching urbanist KZbin. I will always be a city person but these Dutch suburbs look really cool, liveable, enjoyable, pretty, and much much better than the North American ones I’ve seen.

[@stevenwalter3311]

Thank you for this video! I've lived large portions of my life in suburbs, but am fascinated by urbanism. I've long thought of ways to bring urbanist ideas to the suburbs, and this is a good glimpse into that.

[@michieldame701]

Very Nicely done, so far a lot of people have reacted to the Not Just Bikes Suburb video and other similar video's, But this one shows what is possible, a more positive message. BTW Sion has public Bus lines running through, and shopping will probably be done at ' Inde Boogaard' a large shopping centre in Rijswijk 7 to 10 bicycle minutes away from the livingarea of Sion.

[@AburaGamer]

One thing. The sewer covers don't have a date of when they were put down there in the street, it's an approx year when produced, but that could be a long time before the time they are a put in the streets.

[@userunknown7675]

Yup, bag viewer could tell you when the houses where build instead.

[@GolinKNar]

Thanks for making this one! I feel Dutch suburbs aren't talked about enough on urbaniam channels. They have a lot of solutions that can be (as the Strong Towns puts it) "easiest next steps" that NA cities should just do. Are there any NA suburbs like these?

[@PVPRpieter]

I love this video. So interesting. I live in Noord Amsterdam, on Nieuwendammerdijk, near De Bongerd, featured in this video. I grew up in the country side though, so I still find myself drawn to the US style suburbs more than where I actually live. But when it comes down to it. I love that I can be in central Amsterdam in 20 minutes by bike or a combination of walk/bike/metro, and still have ample parking, plenty of living space, a front yard and backyard and in our case, a communal garden, and easy access to nature reserves as well as highways.

[@barryballinger6023]

I love the front yard park. That might really play well in North America.

[@humanecities]

It’s a great way to get kids outside, meeting other children from the neighbourhood! And if it’s right out from your door, it’s easy to keep an eye on your kids, too!

[@highwaysbyways4281]

There are some developments that are being built like that in North America, though they are rare and it is difficult for developers to cut through all the zoning and other regulations that exist. Pocket Neighborhoods is a good site to get an idea of what this can look like in a North American context.

[@jasonriddell]

there is a neighbourhood AND a street that at some time REMOVED the streets in front of there house and it is grass from side to side - cars access the back ally and walking / biking is the ONLY way to the front of the houses

[@charlesunderwood6334]

I live on the edge of one of the World's first purpose built suburbs- Hampstead Garden Suburb, London (1906). This was designed to have a central hub in the centre with gallery, theatre, school and essential shops. It was designed for all people to be able to walk to all essential services, and bus stops and several tube stations are close by. It was also designed to have a range of housing types from large detached to blocks of up to 50 flats. This was to prevent social separation. There are lots of trees, and front gardens typically have a front hedge to give a more 'village' look. This is safe for cycling, but there are steep hills towards central London so is more for local shopping etc. N American designers had this design that was known and could be copied, but they chose not to.

[@Korilian13]

The one car per household thing isn't necesarily representative outside the Randstad, which includes the Hague and A'dam. That last of the Netherlands is especially well connected (though Eendracht actually isn't that optimal).

[@gerhartleischner9806]

I’m binging lately on videos like this of city planning. The ideas of denser housing integrated with more small commercial/light industry, public transport, bike lanes, etc. is very appealing. I come from Regina, Sask. Population is 250,000. With small population a little easier to implement new ideas? Less road surface is appealing because the winters & ever moving clay soil is hard on city roads. Less roads means better road maintenance/snow removal needed, maybe privatizing the service in denser parts? Spring is messy with snow left on the streets. We’ve done well creating parks & a well treed city on the open plain.

[@scubadoobiedoo2190]

Welcome to Amsterdam, reason for visit. "I want to see the suburbs" 😅

[@frafraplanner9277]

4:19 Love the colour coded street width graphic

[@DimaRakesah]

As an American these suburbs look like an absolute DREAM! I would be very happy with a cute little town house in a walkable neighborhood rather than a large single family home. I also love the idea of communal "yard" areas. I don't really need a yard, but I could go lay out on the grass or whatever on a shared yard area without wasting all that space that I won't use 99.9% of the time.

[@StillGamingTM]

Would you pay the same? A nice cute little town house will still set you back around 400K

[@DimaRakesah]

@@StillGamingTM Well these are in pricier areas so I don't know that any similar house would be the same price. If it was an amount within the price of the average American then sure.

[@TheSuperappelflap]

Just be prepared to lie in dogshit in those communal yards

[@dijikstra8]

Thanks for a great video! Yes, this North American dichotomy between the suburb and the city is a bit foreign in many parts of Europe. Here in Stockholm, we do have (almost) the American style suburbs on the outskirts, but we also have a lot of really nice walkable suburbs with good transit access where most people live. For instance I grew up in a "new town" type suburb with 2-5 storey apartment buildings built around a ring road, where everything within the "ring" was completely dedicated to pedestrians and bicycles, and directly attached to a row-house area that similarly had no cars inside the actual residential areas, but instead parking on the outskirts of them. And there were pedestrian tunnels and bridges over the roads that were there. We had frequent, and popular, express buses to the city. Bike infrastructure is where the Netherlands really shines however, it's getting better here but it's still nowhere near as easy or ubiquitous as in the Netherlands (which can also partly be explained by geography, but mostly lack of infrastructure).

[@gosmarte669]

As a Dutch guy living in the US I see pro's and con's to both. Yes Dutch suburbs and cities and towns are very compact and efficient. It's nice you can walk to get groceries and go to restaurants for sure. But people also live on top of each other as the NL is one of the most densely populated countries in the world and it's going to get worst since they need at least 1 mio more houses. Personally I feel claustrophobic in the Netherlands and I prefer the spacious feeling in the US. I am in NL as I reply to this video and I just drove through a new neighborhood for upscale homes and when I look at what people pay and how little space and privacy they get for this than I prefer my house in an American suburb with 3 car garage instead of street side parking. Personal preference.

[@TheSuperappelflap]

We dont need more houses. What we need is feasible options for more people to live together in one house. There are 18 million people and 8 million houses. Thats 2.25 people per house, including children. The average house easily has enough space for 2.25 people. The problem is that government regulations make it difficult for people to live together. Two old people who want to move in together, lets say after their partner dies or they divorce, can both lose half their pension. If you have subsidies for other reasons, or unemployment benefits, you lose them if you move in with someone who has a decent income. Banks also dont let 2 young people buy a house together unless they are in a relationship, so you cant buy a house with a friend and be roommates. There are also lots of people whose kids moved out, who would like to move to a smaller place, but an apartment half the size of their current house costs more so they are stuck in a 4 bedroom house with 1 or 2 people. Also, 60% of all marriages end up in divorce, and that number keeps going up, and the majority of adults under 30 are single and live alone. The problem isnt that we dont have enough houses, the problem is literally everything else. The politicians keep talking about housing shortages because they want to buy up farmland, change its zoning, then sell it to project developers and put the money in their own pockets. They are corrupt.

[@hendrikbijloo]

I realy think you guys ought to visit Houten. That’s a new town build around two train stations and developed for cycle use! It’s basically two suburbs with 25000 inhabitants each, with a lot of service within the sätten, but with good train connections to bigger cities like Den Bosch, Utrecht and Amsterdam! I think that’s probably one of the best newly built suburbs in the Netherlands! And it’s one hundred procent doable to built it near Toronto or Vancouver!

[@epol6471]

I don't want to burst the bubble but I feel like this gives a rosy picture to the idea of suburbs. Even Dutch suburbs have some of the same flaws as anywhere else. The worst example of this is in Tilburg, Reeshof. People DO have two cars in front of their houses, the supermarket IS over a mile away from your home, and there are nearly no apartments, which forces people who want to live in apartments to live in space-wasting single-family homes. The density generally is between 2500 to 4000 per square km, not 5000, not even close to 10000. The streets are dead during the day to the extent it increases theft during office hours. Typical downtown facilities aren't out there and for many are way too far to cycle, and buses? Unlike in Utrecht or Almere you'll find yourself in slow and infrequent buses. And the future of bus transit is not promising in the entire country. Did I mention the train frequency has been reduced to 1 per hour? The lack of good transit is starting to bite.

[@MegaMGstudios]

Even cycling between cities is easy here. When I studied in Delft, most of my classmates lived in the Hague (around HS) and could just easily cycle it. The Hague is more easy to get student housing, that's why all lived there.

[@jamespier7801]

There are a lot of positive attributes to the neighborhoods you showed here. The comments seem 100% positive. It would seem there must be markets for this type of suburban planning in the U.S. and Canada. I am curious to know what are the downsides and what are the obstacles that seem to make it so these suburbs don’t appear in the U.S. No doubt some of the obstacles are changing. It is likely much easier to get by with one car now than it used to be, for instance.

[@seaotter42]

I'm guessing part of the problem is that there's no natural advocacy group for this sort of development. More militant urbanists would insist on higher density than these suburbs, and suburbanites are generally happy with American style suburbs. Some of the features here, such as the bike paths, are actually extremely popular in new suburban development and often are a differentiator between new and older suburbs. Good luck selling the narrow streets idea before more mass transit takes hold though.. Chicken and egg problem there, transit planners want density as proof that its worth building out transit infrastructure, but if high quality transit isn't in place, then people have to have cars.

[@TheSuperappelflap]

Americans love their cars too much to make this happen. Even here in the Netherlands every time a city wants to remove two parking spaces to use the space for something else, the local NIMBYs start legal proceedings that take years, then go through through 3 appeals, and end up costing so much in legal fees for the government that they cant afford to do anything nice with it.

[@BLWard-ht3qw]

My goodness...the amount of solar paneled places there is amazing, not to mention the urban planning layouts. Some of those neighborhoods look so peaceful, which is kind of depressing when thinking it's probably what many in the states would love, but zoning and other issues makes impossible to attain.

[@yukko_parra]

As for the home prices, these prices are legitimately expensive, coming from a Sydneysider. who's lived in townhouses before. Not exactly overpriced for the amenities nearby but expensive for suburban townhouses. Granted rowhouses in the inner suburbs of Sydney cost 4x the amount compared to mid-suburban townhouses in Sydney.

[@mardiffv.8775]

Dutch house prices are expensive due to being the third high densely populated country in the world. 18 million people stuffed into a small country the seize of 3 Australian rural houses and a chicken coop.

[@janman]

Keep in mind that the same types of houses go for half or less in other places in the Netherlands. These particular locations are quite expensive.

[@basvanderwerff2725]

these are also houses near big cities they get alot cheaper when you travel further even as close as only 30-45min travel

[@mardiffv.8775]

@@basvanderwerff2725 Yes indeed.

[@Jenna1394]

Best video yet.

[@krisat16]

Suburbs of Japanese cities might be a good video as well

[@pbilk]

I saw this often in the Netherlands and I would love to live in Dutch suburbs. For density, amenities, a little more space and great bicycle infrastructure.

[@virtuous-sloth]

The housing prices per interior area seemed high for me living in suburban Calgary. If Calgary transformed to: - the house types/varieties & densities shown here (let's say by simply eliminating R-1 zoning and replacing with whatever zoning rules these Netherlands suburbs have, including lot setbacks and %age coverage etc.) - the transportation design show here (i.e. much narrower roads, the reduced per-house parking space, cycling & walking rules wrt to road/cars, public transit) - the mixed use zoning allowing much more variety of retail adjacent to residential I could imagine that we could achieve the livability shown here at a fraction the cost of housing prices in these NL suburbs.

[@lbrounen]

In the Netherlands we have 508 inhabitants per square kilometre. Canada has 4.6. Building plots are rare and therefore expensive.

[@TomEugelink]

On the other hand: when we visited the US the amount of space was liberating. Our country (Netherlands) is so compact and efficient, that it at times can become a bit claustrophobic. Don't get me wrong, I love the fact that a pothole is fixed within days, and that our highways are smooth and well maintained, but there is a flip side to it. Maybe an unfair flip side, but never the less; 'looksy, there is a square meter left, let's put something there". If you've got the space, savour that. Yes, you can make things more pleasant by mixing shops in the residential areas, creating little get-together places. Yes, having separate bike paths is good, do build those. But if you don't need to, don't build too compact, but do build human sized, not car sized. My two cents.

[@Jeremy-yp8eh]

The bitter irony is that the "Dutch" model of suburbia bears a far stronger resemblance to the model of American suburbia advocated for by Frank Lloyd Wright than what we ended up actually getting.