Ergonomic Kneeling Chair Review - Is Hollowing Your Back A Safe Way To Stop Slouching?

[@PauloARod]

I've been using a kneeling chair for the last 5 years and not only everyone is telling me that my posture is a lot better, I also don't have the annoying lower back pain that I used to and feel more active in general and not as lazy. I'm not an expert in posture or back or anything physio related but I don't think I'm the only one who's benefitting from using one of these so I wouldn't listen to this advice too much, I put this video on the same level as videos from people who hate vegetables and because of that, they try hard to convince the World that plant-based food is not healthy...People who will always find a fault in everything are everywhere on the internet and it's not that their opinions are not welcome, we should all hear both sides but I suspect this is one of them cases where I think the pros outweigh the cons and we spend enough time sitting on couches and regular chairs anyway so using one of these in the workplace can't be a bad thing! I strongly recommend, changed my life for the better!

[@kaszapnagypeter]

What kind of kneeling chair do you have?

[@PauloARod]

@@kaszapnagypeter Just a regular one from IKEA, I think. It was bought 2nd hand locally so I don't know much about it, there's no brand or model or anything like that but it looks IKEA and the screws look like IKEA style ones too

[@kaszapnagypeter]

@@PauloARod Thanks mate!

[@mohdpazli]

100% agree with you sir..this guy not even own or use the chair and he claim its a scam? Its just on his understanding.. Load on knee cap? 😆 ..its more like sharing load between your buttocks and lower knee..and its far better than put all the load only on your buttocks especially on long working hours..the back support is just an accessory and its use when you sit normally and just chillin.. I believe the $2000+ ergonomic chair were the real scam as its doing the same thing as a $200

[@theaman1786]

From what I know, the full squat position was humans' default sitting position and that a kneeling chair puts us closer to that position. Second best is the reclining position (recliners, beds, etc). As for compressing the lower back, I don't think anything backs that idea; at least he didn't mention any... Personally, I've always fed my dog while kneeling on my knees, and that position always felt so nice; just today did I discover that these kneeling chairs exist!

[@shauntelcampos3212]

I’ve used a kneeling chair for 3 years and it completely eliminated the multiple headaches I got weekly and my back pain. I think it’s important to find the position of the kneeling chair that puts you in the position that forces you to have the best posture ( my chair is adjustable). I can work all day without any pain.

[@jaimearriola6292]

Which chair do you have? I’m looking for a kneeling chair.

[@the_real_cookiez]

Which chair do you use?

[@harthavenofficial]

@@the_real_cookiez I use the Hart Haven kneeling chair. Made by Dutch engineers. Made a big difference for me.

[@the_real_cookiez]

Tyvm, I'll check it out@@harthavenofficial

[@the_real_cookiez]

Tyvm. I'll check it out! @@harthavenofficial

[@design2refine]

The kneeling chair is intended to support the majority of the body’s weight on the Seat, via buttocks And secondarily the shins. Not with the kneecaps as you suggest

[@dakotarecreates3368]

I have one of these chairs as my primary office chair and I will say that my knees do feel an excess of compression. I haven't noticed it becoming a major problem that exercise and time away from the desk couldn't resolve though. The main reason for the chair is to protect my posture and core and be able to sit for long lengths at a time and it does help accomplish that for me.

[@MegamanNova]

Correct me if I am wrong but if the shins are supporting part if your weight, shouldn't it also put the knees in some stress? By how much, I can't tell as a normy (no medical/scientific expertise). Coz for the shins to support the weight above, it should have a connection to your upper body - which are your knees.

[@stevekent3991]

I have adjustable kneeling chairs. I have had chronic lower back pain for years. Since I tried kneeling chairs, my lower back pain has gone. It’s important to adjust the chairs to suit your body. My knees/shins hardly touch the knee pads. People are using these chairs wrong if they feel weight pressure on their knees. The centre of gravity should not be leaning forward onto your knees, it’s sitting on your buttocks in a neutral posture. Kneeling chairs are effectively a stool with an angled seat to ensure your hips are above your knees, that’s the way they should be used.

[@jacobvasquez5380]

what chair do you use? i want one but im not sure which one to get

[@stevekent3991]

@@jacobvasquez5380 I bought two from Amazon, a cheap one and a middle of the range one as I didn’t know what I needed. Both are fine, as long as they are adjustable, that will do. A lot of them are more or less the same, just different material and/or thicker pads. The cheap one I bought had better castor wheels (metal connection as opposed to plastic on the middle of the range one). You don’t need any bells or whistles, just something to sit on which you can adjust. We all have different bodies so it’s best to buy one to try it. Return it if it doesn’t suit your body. A tip, sit with your feet on the ground, whether it’s the whole foot planted on the ground or your toes. That will help you sit in a more neutral position.

[@xrtgameryt8008]

This chair was fairly easy to put together, the instructions were clear and I was about to follow along with no issues at all. It took me about 20 minutes to assemble. kzbin.infoUgkx5hPALGI87E991DRmXev8PUFJGrrRcONS I did stuff the back of the chair with a pillow so it wouldn’t be so hollow after taking all the pieces out but that’s just a personal preference. I also added a pillow for lumbar support because although this is a great chair and is comfortable, it’s not necessarily the best if you’re sitting 10+ hrs a day wfh but in all honesty for the price, I didn’t mind at all. It looks great in my space and easily adjusts the height when needed.

[@rrg1803]

I use a kneeling chair, but I also use an office chair. I find that switching between the two whenever I start to feel uncomfortable in one works great. Basically just allowing myself to have choices in postures whenever I see fit. I think that's what many people get wrong about "posture". Even an upright posture for long durations can become uncomfortable, same with slouching/"bad" posture.

[@3-Kashmir]

Exactly lol

[@artegentile8365]

A kneeling chair saved my back - I have studied on it for hours on end daily for years. It allows you to move around, lean on the backrest for a few minutes, or rocking for some stretching.

[@kaszapnagypeter]

Is it comfortable? Can you work with it for hours?

[@kaszapnagypeter]

@@GAMES.IDEAS.FUN123 Thank you so much! I am going to buy it on the next week.

[@kentofmississippi]

I think it is a good tool- a way to mix it up. Sitting itself isn't the best, so alternating postures helps a lot.

[@trix6886]

thank you! i appreciate people like you when there is so much misinformation out there!

[@OlivierGirard]

My pleasure Trix! This video creates a lot of resistance indeed (cf. some comments 😂), but my responsibility is to empower you, not to make you spend uselessly...

[@diane7900]

Trix, What you refer to as misinformation is actually a difference of educated opinion. Each can be perfectly valid.

[@trix6886]

@@diane7900 no that’s stupid there is a right answer and a wrong answer.

[@360.Tapestry]

what he failed to mention is that it's even more unhealthy to use the same chair he's sitting in from the same video lmao laughable quack

[@diane7900]

It may depend upon the way a person uniquely, naturally sits. I have used a kneeling chair for 25+ years, various rocking models, original basic balans to pricy. I now have the thatsit and I do frequently rock back and use the backrest, arms hooked over the 'wings', I consider this my contemplative pose . It is not a static chair! I find I am enjoyably often moving. Not because I'm uncomfortable, but because there are many comfortable positions to explore, and my body seems to want this. Also, my knees are never directly on the shin pads, so no discomfort there. I do however miss the wheels on my herman miller, which I occasionally change back to if I need to zoom around my office. The thatsit chair is very good for dispelling hip pain, if the pain is caused by a bowl-shaped seat, which many traditional desk chairs have, or develop over time. For some people, the kneeling chairs may need some getting used to. It was never an issue for me.

[@jaimearriola6292]

What kneeling chair do you recommend?

[@Justo777]

Good for you!! That’s a very expensive chair. 😮

[@mimodelorean]

interesting video. I've used a Varier Balans (it was still from Stokke back then, also with the back rest) for the past 13 years and I've used it every single day for 8-10hours. I actually think, in retrospective, that's one of the best buys I've ever done so far. I bought a new one few weeks ago since, after all these years, it lost its asset and only when I sat on the new one I realized how sloppy the old one was. But I guess that's normal with the wood being "alive". To be clear I'm not questioning your insights but rather bring a real life example about my particular kneeling chair. After 13 years of prolonged daily use - 13 years is is a long stretch - I didn't encounter any of the problems you mentioned. But I have to say that the Balans is a rocking chair so you never sit in one position for too long .. you constantly change it and I sense that matter a real lot. curiosu to know your opinion tho' :)

[@OlivierGirard]

You got the point, Alessandro. As I explain in another video (kzbin.info/www/bejne/p5-ti6uifZplhKM), unhealthy postures are not "forbidden"... what's "forbidden" is to have unhealthy postures for a long time, or during hazardous activities (physical effort, shocks, vibrations, cold). Just to be clear: when we talk about posture, we talk about what happens locally as well (i.e. posture of your elbow, posture of your neck, posture of your lower back, etc.). Therefore, it's OK to have a hollow back once in a while... the issue with such chairs is - when you use them as your main chair, because the duration will be prolonged; - when (like most people), you tend to stand with a hollow back (because of high heels, because of a pelvic too far forward, etc.) In this case, you sit with a hollow back and you stand with a hollow back... if you also sleep on your belly, then your back is hollow 24/7! The other part of the argument is the issue of the weight transfer: part of your weight is vertical (absorbed by the seat) whilst the other part is horizontal (that's the pelvic tilt you observe under the effect of gravity). The point of a good lumbar support is to absorb the latter. When there's no lumbar support (or a useless one because your back is hollow), the horizontal component of your weight isn't transferred to the chair; therefore, it stays on your tissues and it is a source of fatigue / overuse on the long run. Makes sense?

[@geoffreymegardon5624]

@@OlivierGirard I am not sure if it makes sense... it seems that the varier balans design is having a few tricks in its sleeves. Did you try it? Maybe the rocking movement and the ability to extend one or two of your legs (which they recommend to do throughout the day) resolves the hollow back issue? Hence you would alternate between hollow and not/less hollow, which might be way better than slouching on a normal chair?

[@OlivierGirard]

@@geoffreymegardon5624 Good point again, Geoffrey! The answer is in this recent video, in which I explain why the dogmas like "the best posture is the next one" or "movement is health" are misleading: kzbin.info/www/bejne/hJXanqJpaJibrqM. Plus, the goal shouldn't be to compare 2 evils (kneeling chair vs. slouching on a normal chair); the reference should be sitting on the sitting bones against the lumbar support, and alternating with standing every 30 min, the ultimate goal being to stand 35%-50% of the time.

[@sorenjunkers3834]

​@@OlivierGirard48 yo. Sitting on kneeling chairs sometimes 12 hours a day. No issues.

[@a_demain]

A kneeling chair is the name but you DO NOT put your knees on the rest, it is the portion of your legs BELOW YOUR KNEES. At least this the way my Stokke chair was designed (now known as Varier Wing). Also the Wing chair does not have a back rest.

[@prettyzen2]

I used a kneeling chair for about 6 months (admin) Because of having knees in an un natural bend all day ( weight was distributed correctly and it was a quality stool) the stool contributed towards two years of knee locking

[@zealon.]

I've removed the original contents of this post due to changing my perspective of kneeling chairs, as I've come to really appreciate and benefit from them. All it took was getting used to them as well as finding a chair that actually felt good.

[@OlivierGirard]

We’re all the same, my friend: we always look for info AFTER we have a problem. But I’m glad I could help!!

[@PauloARod]

One hour? Was that it? LOL. That's only because your body is not used to sit in that position, mate! If you don't walk for 6 Months, the first time you will walk it'll be uncomfortable to your feet, legs and knees but if you don't quit and continue walking each day, you'll get to the point when walking becomes a natural and painless exercise so your experience with the chair (or lack of it) is making you give really bad advice here. The chair is good, people. Take it from someone who's been using one for years!

[@AdrianCuyubambaDiaz]

Have you kept using it? If so, have you changed your opinion on the kneeling chairs?

[@zealon.]

@@AdrianCuyubambaDiaz Indeed! I typically use a sit/stand desk and resorted to finding a better kneeling chair for my workshop than the one I had when I wrote my initial comment. I think it was a mixture of getting used to the position, as well as getting a decent quality chair. I also invested in a proper ergonomic desk chair for ordinary usage at home when just wanting to sit back and relax but not screw my back up. I like my kneeling chair and will definitely continue using them in future.

[@AdrianCuyubambaDiaz]

@Zealon that's awesome! I have 2 herniated discs in my lower back and conventional sitting makes the pain a lot worse after 10 or 15 minutes, I've tried standing only but now my heels hurt and it's hard to maintain a good posture, especially after multiple hours. After watching multiple videos and reading comments like yours I think buying a kneeling chair is my best option, thanks 😊

[@ZacEckstein]

You would still have to practice good posture when using a kneeling chair properly, but I don't think that makes it useless. I've heard of lots of people who have benefited from it, especially with something like piriformis syndrome.

[@OlivierGirard]

I get your point, Zac but I would nuance it. In my experience, most people often haven't tried enough in terms of 1) getting a proper office chair with a high quality lumbar support (kzbin.info/www/bejne/fne0Yn-QotWZi68) 2) fine-tuning their sitting posture (kzbin.info/www/bejne/ioDHkJhrnr9sqq8) 3) standing up often enough (kzbin.info/www/bejne/oJqyd3-PgLCcnbc). As a result, switching to a kneeling chair brings them short-term relief at the expense of an increased long-term risk on the lower back: as "the horizontal component of their weight" isn't absorbed by the lumbar support, it stays on their tissues (lumbar cartilage in part., as the kneeling chair induces an increased lordosis), and this increases the likelihood and severity of future lumbar osteoarthritis. Furthermore, the chance that they work on their posture once they felt this short-term relief is minor: it's a sad reality, but people need motivation to train their posture. Without pain, such motivation is usually absent. I also recently had another viewer reporting neck pain since he uses a kneeling chair, which is another side effect to be expected: strain in the lower back induces neck strain .

[@HevaNaisdey]

I imagine the best chair would be a vertical neck traction devide that allows us to tilt our head while in a sitting position. Sometimes I do arm push up in my chair and the gravitational pull on the spine on the vertical axis feels so good; it even makes brone cracking noise sometimes just from the traction. If we can float while still making contact with the ground with both our feet in a sitting position, we probably don't need any back support. We only a simple chair to secure our position, so we don't sway around. What crazy idea lol

[@takeiteasy6346]

I do this all the time to crack my back lol

[@galllowglass]

I think calling it mumbo jumbo and a scam is really disrespectful to the people who put thought into creating something that could better people's lifestyles when they realized there was obviously a problem with the way we sit. Might there be a conceptual problem with the chair? Yes. But it's not something that was created out of maliciousness to scam people out of their money. I've seen plenty of examples of people designing just to get money without a care for the user and I don't think the kneeling chair is that.

[@rittwikarudra626]

I dont agree. I have had chronic neck and shoulder pain for the past 3 yrs and got introduced to kneeling chair a few weeks back. I have seen drastic improvements in the pain I feel at the end of my work day. I had to train my shins to handle the position and have to take breaks every hour but even that is actually good for people whose jobs require them to sit in front of computer all day.

[@OlivierGirard]

You know, I respect your experience... but agreeing or not does seem to be the right concept: I'm describing biomechanics, no more no less. I have no feelings, just equations and observations. There's nothing to agree upon; maybe you feel what I mean, maybe not yet, maybe never. But it's like telling me that your grand-dad was feeling better after smoking a cigarette and that he lived a very long life... so what? Does it mean that we should describe smoking as potentially beneficial to your health?

[@GamerGeezer]

@@OlivierGirard I think people with certain injuries can benefit from on off usage, I have a bulge L5-S1. I started using a kneeling chair and its reduced the pressure on my back to the point the pain and pressure has massively reduced. Normal Chairs aren't good for your spine, too much running is not good for the knees, sugar isn't good for teeth. I think intermittent usage for certain injuries is good on a "if it works for you" basis. But I have taken your point on board and will remember them.

[@levelojaune]

@@OlivierGirard Your biomechanic analysis does not take everything into account. It's an overly simplistic analysis that is based on guesses from your understanding of biomechanics. No empirical evidence or proof provided to back up your claims.

[@userabcdef81]

​@@OlivierGirard the cigattate smoking is not comparable 😂

[@fenderOCG]

I've used traditional kneeling chairs since I was a kid and can sit comfortably on one for hours, but seldom recommend them to people with back pain. Most people with chronic back pain simply lack the musculature to do well with them.

[@paw195]

I enjoy them too and I think they got much more benefits then negatives. also definitly better to start using it when you are younger to adjust yourself to it and build muscle where required

[@paw195]

I think his explanation is very poor and misinformative. what i do agree on is your comment! and that there is definitely a age limit to using them because i can see how older people might have issues using them.

[@tsunamio7750]

If Oliver's arguments did not convince you, logic can't help here, we need more data. A statistical analysis. The only way to know would be to have a good study with a control group. 1. Kids using a kneeling chair 2. Kids using the traditional chair (control) Get Saudi Arabian kids to the kneeling chairs and get the Israelian ones to use the traditional ones. The first to declare war on the other will most likely be the one with children of Gaia, with broken backs and tentacles, accusing the other of spinal conspiracy. And that's how you do !!!SCIENCE!!! kids.

[@paw195]

@@tsunamio7750 enjoy the rest of you acid trip. stay safe

[@tsunamio7750]

@@paw195 !!!SCIENCE!!!

[@MintyFrills]

When you lean forward the backrest moves forward with you, its really comfortable.

[@martinb3483]

Thank you for the video. I've been using a knee chair for two months. Result: Burning pain between and below the shoulder blades. In my opinion it is no good solution if you have to work with a mouse and a keyboard for 8 hours a day...

[@rubentiagoQcoisa]

if there's one thing i've learnt from all my back problems is this: there's no miracle solution. There's no chair that's gonna save you. There's just no way you're gonna have a healthy spine if you sit for 8 or more hours a day. Not gonna happen. What worked for me was a more compound approach, like having several gadgets and chairs at home that will allow me to switch between them through out the day. If you sit for 8 or more hours straight, do yourself a favour and buy a standing desk, a good office chair, a kneeling chair, a medicinal ball, and spend your days switching from one to another. Go for walks, workout, stretch, do some pull ups once and a while and avoid sitting more than you already have to. This includes netflix and chill ---- sit on the floor while you do it! Stretch, have fun!

[@ricos1497]

Great video. I find the biggest problem with my home office chair is that I remain in it for 8 hours per day. Surely designing a chair around this insanity is the biggest part of the problem? As someone with a dodgy knee, I get really stiff and find that with such little movement during the day I'm inflexible and sore. In light of this, should we actually be proposing a chair and desk combination that allows for lots of different positions within an 8 hour day? For example, I could sit (with adjustable desk height of course): - good office char for an hour - cross legged for an hour - in seiza position for an hour (maybe ten minutes for me!) - stand for an hour - go for a walk for an hour - saddle chair for an hour - good office chair for another hour - standing for another hour Given that many people are now working for home, there is no need to conform to the office standard, so is it better to try and incorporate different seating and standing patterns in a day (perhaps with pop up reminders to change position) wherever possible, and think differently about these things? Or am I speaking out of the hole between my sitting bones?!

[@OlivierGirard]

Thank you!! I love the way you allocate a new function to your sitting bones region :) !! Joke apart, you raise a super important point, which I explain on this live webinar (check kzbin.info/www/bejne/sHzHh2mdntWhobM, from 2’20’’ to 8’55’’). The issue with your idea is that exactly like the guy I show, you’ll take the risk to 1) mess up your tissues individually, one after the other or 2) to not see that different postures actually overload the same tissues, i.e. that movement of your body as a whole isn’t necessarily movement at a more local level. It’s true that office workers are too static. But the opposite of being static is not instability or messed up movement patterns, it’s just frequent movement. So actually, the keys to being fit are - to identify all the activities that you do sitting more out of a habit than out of a necessity, and to stand during them. For example: giving a phone call, being on a conference call, discussing with a colleague, drinking coffee, etc. And of course, to arrange your schedule so that this type of activities are well spread across your day & week; - to become a better philosopher: remember that your productivity isn’t proportional to your screen / chair time. This was the belief in Taylor’s time... but today, we know it’s wrong. Nowadays, there are 2 types of job. You can have a repetitive / mechanistic task, and all the studies show that people who take short regular breaks work more, for longer and with fewer mistakes than people who have the same total break time, but spread less over the day. That’s because tiredness comes later. Alternatively, you can have a creative job... and please tell me: when is the last time you got the idea of the century behind your screen? Never! It was under shower, on holidays or in the forest, most probably. In other words, your brains need breaks to be creative. So you see, one way or the other, philosophy and science agree on the fact that if you love your job and your productivity, you should take breaks from them... and these breaks should be used to go for a walk ;) In short: you have tons of opportunities to work whilst being healthy just by switching between sitting, standing and walking. No point to insert hazardous postures in there :) Makes sense?

[@ricos1497]

@@OlivierGirard thanks. For some reason I didn't get a notification regarding this reply. That was very useful, thanks for getting back to me!

[@mihajlomitrovic1211]

Thank you for raising awareness of the potential issues kneeling chairs might cause. However, you saying there is excessive pressure on the knees indicates to me that you haven’t really used one of these. Is that the case? I am asking because this chair definitely proved me wrong when I first sat on it.

[@brentcruede6544]

I agree and appreciate much of what you say here. But you're only referring to the disc compression that occurs when sitting in a stationary chair. But the great thing, it seems to me, about a rocking-kneeling chair is that your pelvic area is NOT stationary and frozen, but rather is given the opportunity, while sitting 'stationary', to gently and constantly move back and forth from a perfect vertical. This 'dynamic sitting' is the best of all possible ways to sit from a natural perspective, it seems to me. 'Motion is lotion' and why not bring this principle to the sitting position in which you may be 'frozen' for hours at a time in ANY static chair?

[@pa486]

Came for the chair advice, stayed for the ASMR. Great explanation also thanks :)

[@OlivierGirard]

I'm happy you like the channel!! Share with your friends :) !!

[@OlivierGirard]

​ @Anonymous Panacea Your question is a very common one. Biomechanically, there's no difference between Japanese and others. The difference is cultural: Western cultures have a different relationships to pain: we want to minimize it, which is not everywhere the ultimate goal. My good friend from Syria always sits on the ground too. For him too, it's cultural, like kneeling in Asia. In Syria, people develop pain too when they get old...but they don't dramatize it: it's just part of the ageing process. The first thing you learn in pain management is that there's no direct relationship between physiological damage and pain... that's a typical illustration thereof.

[@ElectroMonkE]

In what way is it biomechanically different from the seiza position japanese have been using for centuries? If you distribute your weight properly and don't constrict your kneecaps, I could see some people benefit from it, depending on their flexibility or comfortable range of motion.

[@OlivierGirard]

The question is highly relevant, Benjamin... thanks for asking it! I don't think that the answer is only biomechanical, but we can start with that: - your long-term postural comfort depends on what you've done with your body since a young age, and the Japanese ancestral way to raise kids isn't necessarily comparable with the modern way to raise Western office workers. However, I'm not sure that this plays a massive role here, because were actually talking about intra-joint pressure, which is the same across cultures; - the strain on the tissues isn't only due to posture. It is the 24/7 combination of posture, activity, duration and stress. By duration, I mean duration over a lifetime, over a month, over a week, today, between 2 breaks, etc. You always have to zoom in and out, both in terms of duration (short vs long term) and in terms of posture (local vs regional). So we're really talking about a multiple factors. And again there, many of these factors aren't the same between the old Japanese way and the modern Western way. Office work creates time constraints (static, etc.) that is quite unprecedented on such a scale; - but in my opinion, the biggest reason is precisely not biomechanical: it's culture. Culture matters in 2 ways. Firstly, the pain that you feel isn't just proportional to the physiological damage (see e.g. kzbin.info/www/bejne/nJ-xcnlqerV5sMU). Many cultures bear pain much better than we do in the West e.g., because of a different relationship to emotions. Secondly, the paradigm underlying this channel is that the individual does not want to feel pain. This paradigm isn't universal at all: many cultures have other priorities e.g., the group matters more than the individual, or other values matter more than individual comfort. I remember an Iranian carpet maker that I was trying to help; we couldn't find a solution for a kneeling posture that was used for centuries too. When we discussed it, it actually appeared that every carpet maker had always had had immense pain in the knees, back, neck and hands in the age of 50. But that wasn't a topic for them, because the craftsmanship was more important than the individual comfort. In other words, observing that some cultures have had certain postures or practices for ages does not mean that if you apply it just like this in your daily life, you will get benefits from it. Makes sense?

[@LoriFahy]

I think sitting is bad for us as humans, PERIOD. I use my kneeling chair to sit in many positions, and I can rock on it so my fidgeting now allows me to use my core unlike the chair i was using. I feel you view it like people sit a certain way on chairs or stools for hours on end in one position, and wether you use a chair or a stool or whatever, we never do that. As humans our bodies will make us move, change positions, get up, and move about etc. So while i see what you are saying I feel its more about a static position. I move around a lot more with the stool then i ever did with a chair.. but each to their own.

[@douglasbarnes4035]

Had one 30 years ago. Never once did any pressure get on my kneecaps because knees don’t work like that.

[@360.Tapestry]

guy is just imagining things and then passing it off as proof

[@Hannahdealer8180]

I love your attitude and truthful approach. I guess it's another poorly thought through quick-fix, I hope we never fall for stuff like this again. God bless you, sir.

[@OlivierGirard]

Thank you very much for your support, dear! If you found it useful, I truly appreciate your help in sharing this content 🙏. I really believe it's time for our friends, family and colleagues to get more understanding of our posture and biomechanics...

[@emerson-lf7ow]

Hes right cause full downward load is redirected onto the knees .If youre a large person this would be crazy

[@kleber1983]

I was interested in this kneeling chairs not because of my back, but because of my lower stomach and pubic area, they get a lot o pressure when I´m sitting down, these chairs seem to aliviate that (I have a considerable belly).

[@OlivierGirard]

It is true that if you have a large belly, you need space in the hip joint area. However, these chairs will tend to reinforce your tendency to have a hollow back (because of the weight pulling forward). I think you should compare with the HAG Capisco chair, which would let you sit with a hip angle of 100-110° whilst having your feet under your knees and a lumbar support. They come with a T-shaped seat pan, as well as with a traditional rectangular one, but short so that you can open the hip joint. But test before you buy: some people don’t like this type of chairs...

[@bigd1179]

I had already ordered a kneeling chair to see if it works for me. I have had back pain in my lower-mid back for over half a year now, but I have also lost a dramatic amount of weight over the last 2 years in addition to becoming more muscular with strength training and physical activity. Regular chairs seem to be more expensive compared to pre-2020 and it felt more accessible than a decent ergonomic chair at this moment. I honestly just don't know what to do, my doctor just told me "Someone your age shouldn't have back pain" and sent me on my way when I had brought up my back pain, I'm ultimately just frustrated, I have tried exercises like rowing, but nothing seems to help.

[@OlivierGirard]

Hey dear... I'm sorry that you feel left alone by your doctors. I see that very often when the diagnosis is unclear (that's also called non-specific pain). That's exactly the reason why I created the online posture programs (which was called the Non-Specific Pain Program until recently). Have a look there: www.onlinepostureprograms.com and if that's something for you, book a call at the bottom of the page...

[@lazartutulic7577]

Hey Gakell, how was Your experince been with the chair..?

[@FrankPoliat]

If your doctor actually said that, then you need a less unintelligent and more caring doctor. Also google the words (without quotes): osteopath same training.

[@Edekje]

Hi Gakell, sorry to hear about your condition. Rowing is a great sport, and should be low-impact, even for (some) people with (certain types of) backpain. However, it's also very technical, and it can take a couple of months to get the posture right. I recommend watching videos from professional rowers on KZbin and learn from real-life experience rowers to get a good technique. If you are suffering from back pain during rowing it is commonly caused by bending over too much with the back when in the front at the catch. This poor posture is called 'cashew' shaped. Keep the back straight and strong, bend from the hips, and push with your core engaged always to prevent these issues. I'm not sure if you are still into rowing or already knew these things, but I hope it is helpful. I suffer from serious tailbone and varicose vein pain, but the activity of rowing always alleviates this for at least several hours.

[@ddddsdsdsd]

thanks for your honesty

[@BlackOps78321]

I have used a kneeling chair, it's a scam, luckily just refunded it. As a guy who's maybe 1' above average height, it'd only be worse if you were way taller. Even for arguably shorter, less weighty girls, it may become a little more tolerable due to physics but it's still bad. It places almost all pressure or friction onto your front shins. This means blood constriction. This means even if you are like a fit specimen, there's only so long until like it becomes annoying or uncomfortable and you literally cannot just deal with sitting with it. It's a 'good concept' but falls short in execution.

[@kingMu-k3l]

What's a simple chair for good posture

[@diggsdock8515]

The image you had up on screen at the begining of your video is a Balans chair. Not a kneeling chair. If sat on it correctly, there is zero pressure on the knees. The other point you make about a hollow back and the contraction of muscles would only happen if you hold yourself in one position. The idea of a Balans chair is to keep a degree of movement through the body and not sit in a static position.

[@Tosti_bakker]

Isn't the idea tho that you engage your abdominal muscles to counteract the hollowing of the spine? That way you train a good posture, while maintaining a straight spine right? In any case, thanks for the informative video. Edit: I must add that right now I have a pretty good ergonomic chair, but for me the problem is that after a while I get a tingling sensation around my tailbone. Therefore I was considering if kneeling chairs might help. I only weight 60 kgs, so I was thinking for me the issue of pressure on my knees might not be that bad...

[@OlivierGirard]

Sure dear, you're super right! If you tilt your pelvis back (thereby engaging your lower abs), you can compensate for the hollowing of the spine. The problem is that you will not be able to do this for prolonged periods of time, especially not if you are focused on what you do (working or gaming). So the idea is to put the skeleton into an optimum posture so that the muscles don't need to correct anything when it comes to being at work, whilst I indeed encourage you to train your abs in other circumstances. Before investing, you may consider that maybe, the issue you currently have could be "normal": what do you call "after a while"? I mean: everybody should stand every 30 min, because after that there's an increase of pressure in the lumbar spine. So if you feel strange after 2hrs sitting on your chair, the solution is not to go and sit for 2 hrs on a kneeling chair but rather to keep your current chair and get into the habit of standing much more often. See what I mean?

[@Tosti_bakker]

@@OlivierGirard Thank you for your thorough explanation and advice! I understand what you mean. I do get up at least once every hour and do some stretches or go for a walk etc. But I think it's just the total amount of hours sitting each day in these pandemic times that might be cause of my problems. In any case, thank you for making this video and answering my question!

[@geoffreymegardon5624]

@@OlivierGirard but how can I work if I have to do breaks every 30mn? A break every 2h is manageable, but every 30mn seems just distracting. I am a game developer and I would like to be able to focus on my work over long periods of time.

[@OlivierGirard]

@@geoffreymegardon5624 That's a super important question, Geoffrey. When I speak about breaks, I speak about physiological breaks, not necessarily psychological breaks. This means that you have to unload your lower back and your neck, not necessarily your mind. For the lower back, a physiological break is e.g., when you stand using your electric desk. Or when you have a team meeting or a Zoom call standing. For the neck, it supposes to take of your arms from the keyboard / mouse and eyes from the screen. Often, people stay on the mouse without using it; that's one opportunity. Three more thoughts: - Mother Nature has not foreseen biomechanics to please the constraints that we create to ourselves due to productivity targets, organisational constraints, etc. My job is to explain what She has foreseen, but each one of us is free to prioritize one or the other when there's a conflict :) - we all violate the rules from time to time, myself included. The question is 1) how frequently and by how much and 2) what do we do to compensate. If you take a break every two hours and do my upper body reset (kzbin.info/www/bejne/r6msnJlpa7mFepY), it's not ideal but it's far better than a break every two hours without the upper body reset. - all the studies show that people who take short regular breaks are more productive, more creative and do less mistakes than those who take less regular breaks of the same total duration. That's because fatigues comes later when you have short regular breaks. Furthermore, bear in mind that brilliant ideas never come behind your screen, but under shower, in the forest, etc. So whether you are doing something repetitive or something creative, being regularly away from your screen actually preserves your productivity... Makes sense?

[@zhansayabulegenova358]

@@geoffreymegardon5624 hey! I am a CG artist and I am thinking which chair to try now. Did you already try kneeling chair? I sit usually 12-15 hours with only one hour break at lunch.

[@benjaminfirth5616]

You mostly emphasize the lumbar spine in this video... While I admit that lumbar issues seem to be far and away the most common. Personally I have struggled more with postural imbalance in my thoracic and cervical spine due to being hunched over studying most hours of the day. It seems to me that the anterior pelvic rotation and resulting extension of the upper spinal segments would be beneficial for those dealing with cervical/thoracic issues, even if it wouldn’t benefit those with lumbar issues... I would love to hear your thoughts on this, thank you.

[@OlivierGirard]

You have a point, Benjamin. My next video will be on the spinal equation, and I will explain why you need to work on lumbar and thoracic spine to fix your neck. Clearly, you don't want a lumbar posterior tilt that would make you slouch. But that does not mean you need the lumbar spine to have an anterior tilt: you want it to be in the middle, i.e. right on the sitting bones (watch this short video: kzbin.info/www/bejne/horQY42LgdOqmrM). Next to that, you want to the mid back to be tonic, which has a lot to do with how you use your muscles, and well as not working on a desk which is too low (i.e. far below elbow height). The round shoulders program that I have published here is what you need: kzbin.info/www/bejne/i5rXmolsi5qXhNE 😅 Last but not least, you don't want the neck to mess up what's been achieved below it, and that is in particular due to 2 things: small / low screens (e.g., you shouldn't work on your laptop) and visual acuity and fatigue (i.e. when you got your eyes checked last, and how frequently you take breaks that will relax your eyes). As you see, you have to work upwards. This is what I explain in this super important video on the 3 Rules of Posture: kzbin.info/www/bejne/aoG5emyZo7J9pZo Does this make sense?

[@elbyadhamza2007]

Thanks for sharing these fruitful informations.

[@beetlejuss]

Why are you the only saying this? Is there research that back this up?

[@maheshdusane6115]

I have not tried a kneeling chair, but as I can see if you sit correctly on a kneeling chair the pressure will be there on your mid-upper tibia, it will not be there on knee caps as you think.

[@OlivierGirard]

This depends a lot on the model, Mahesh. But it’s only a side problem. The main issue is excessive lordosis...

[@jevgenijsalunin9820]

Well I don't know, I've been sitting on a normal chair for a lifetime by my PC, and the way I sit is with extreme lumber kyphosis. And when I'm standing I have anterior pelvic tilt. So I'll try this chair to see if something is changing

[@MrJ17J]

Did you try one yet ?

[@jevgenijsalunin9820]

@@MrJ17J well yeah, i've bought for 20$ a simple one, but i don't know, i just can't sit for a long time on it, after an hour or so I'm starting to use it like an average chair but it's uncomfortable, so for now I've switched to a regular pc chair.

[@jevgenijsalunin9820]

@@MrJ17J my way of sitting is something like half lotus pose, so i just can't adapt to a new style for now. I'll give it a chance in a new future

[@MrJ17J]

@@jevgenijsalunin9820 Thanks for sharing. At price 20 must be a really bad one. The good ones are higher priced. Interesting that you mention half lotus. Maybe a cross legged chair like the one from Hart Haven is more for you. I have their kneeling chair and the point of such a model is that you can move around and switch your position a it is actually better to move and not stay still for hours.

[@jevgenijsalunin9820]

@@MrJ17J interesting, thank you, I'll check that out

[@mickhead77]

and what about the model with a back rest?

[@orlandoj3904]

I think your description should have a kneeling chair as an example to see the exact ergonomics of the body and how uncomfortable and not beneficial for long sittings. It will be easier to agree with your medical concern by seeing a real sample with both types of chairs.

[@OlivierGirard]

I agree, dear. I just have a practical and environmental concern: I don’t want to buy useless stuff just to shoot one video... and visiting shops with my camera to criticise the hardware isn’t easy. But if you have an idea on how to resolve this conflict, I welcome it 🙏🏻!! Together we’re smarter 💪🏾...

[@lindavangalder879]

@@OlivierGirard If you don't use it then you shouldn't complain about it. Some people don't have any other alternative.

[@OlivierGirard]

Not having it at the time of shooting the video doesn’t mean having no experience of it... remember that I assess 1000+ workplaces in a typical year, a number of which with such chairs. Regarding choice, it’s a vast question. My experience of training 10k+ people across all professions is that choice depends a lot on personal factors. When I put groups of people in the same situation, half find a way out, half don’t. Inventiveness is a muscle: it needs training.

[@Dylan-qk8ss]

I really like my kneeling chair, got it cheap. I just slouch too much in a regular chair. Is kneeling chair bad if posture is good? I do feel a bit more pressure on my hips/back. @Oliver?

[@OlivierGirard]

Hey Dylan... that's indeed the point of kneeling chairs. They limit slouching, but at a high price: hollow back... Now, regarding your question "Is kneeling chair bad if posture is good?", I have 2 answers: - as you don't have a lumbar support on a kneeling chair, you can have a geometrically good posture which loads your tissues more, because there's no weight transfer to the backrest - I spend my days correcting people's ideas on what they consider to be a good posture... so I am very careful giving a blank seeing on a posture that I did not analyse. But as it's Christmas very soon, just send me pictures of you at your workstation and I'll tell you what I think of it ([e-mail]) 😉

[@sakurabrent1242]

@@OlivierGirard definitely agree on this explanation. As a physical therapist myself I do worry about the weight the knees (tibia on most part) on this type of chair. Nevertheless, an ergonomic chair with a soft or firm cushion for the buttocks is the best way to keep that lumbar spine unstressed.

[@OlivierGirard]

@@sakurabrent1242 Definitely agree!! And people really need to learn that they should get up every 30 min. We still have a lot of education work to do, dear!!

[@koondoog4282]

what do you reccomend? would a office chair seat pillow help?

[@OlivierGirard]

I recommend that you get a proper office chair and that you learn how to use it well, cf the playlists on my channel home page😄

[@chasti5754]

Thank you, I needed to hear that! I thought it was a good idea, which probably would lead to more problems in my body

[@OlivierGirard]

Great, I'm glad to hear this! If you need any advice with your current issues, feel free to share them and we'll see what we can do about that :)

[@lailaakram1968]

I love your channel I learn from it everyday

[@OlivierGirard]

Thank you, dear Laila :) Is there anything in particular that you would like me to discuss in a future video?

[@MindlessTube]

Has any one invented a good chair yet that can be sat in for long periods of time? Because I can't find one

[@OlivierGirard]

Good question... There are different parts to the answer: - you shouldn't sit for more than 30 min in a row (this leads to lumbar compression) - there are some chairs that are intended for long duties (e.g., security guards). Google: 24 hours chairs - comfort is a quite personal thing. In this video, I explain how to choose a good chair: kzbin.info/www/bejne/fne0Yn-QotWZi68, but nothing will replace a 2 weeks test before buying...

[@af.tatchell]

3:00 what about spondylolisthesis?

[@Skyhawk1998]

Thank you for making this video. All of the flashy reviews singing the praises of these kneeling chairs absolutely reeked of money and its nice listening to someone who is telling the truth.

[@OlivierGirard]

Thank you, dear! It's a pleasure knowing that my videos are useful!! Take care of yourself :-)

[@IS-uh5yj]

Thank you. Learned something new even though I thought I knew a decent amount.

[@yoohoo9842]

Oliver what is your degree or training

[@OlivierGirard]

www.linkedin.com/in/oliviergirardposture? 😉

[@ekhsansaa9620]

Hi, how's your opinion on zero gravity chair... Is it good for our posture... I hv use it when doing works for hours. Nothing bad. But just want some thought from experts

[@НикитаИстомин-я5б]

Thank you for your videos, they gave a lot of information to reconsider. I've never regarded kneeling chairs in earnest, but what about saddle chairs or stool? Are they suitable for long hours of sitting work?

[@OlivierGirard]

You're welcome! Saddle chairs are recommended for less than 4 hrs a day, due to the pressure on the inner thigh tissues. As far as stools are concerned (and some saddle chairs as well), the issue is the lack of lumbar support (check out kzbin.info/www/bejne/ioDHkJhrnr9sqq8). So same thing, I wouldn't recommend them for prolonged sitting.

[@Fastlife_hos]

Yea sorry posture guy your wrong about this , the kneeling ones that rock back and forth without the wheels really work! They distribute your weight to the buttocks and shins not the knees. You should try doing this review after purchasing a varied balance kneeling chair.

[@zzzzzzzzzzzzzza]

Im sitting on one now. Japanese. Im sitting on my sits bones and my knees are not under pressure. Advantage is that i can bring a leg up and create a variety of sitting positions

[@BlessedForever888]

Thank you!

[@danielrollins4315]

Thank you for the video I was about to get one

[@OlivierGirard]

Hey Daniel, thanks for the feedbackk! If you thought you need one, chances are big that your sitting posture isn't so great; if so, watch this video to improve it: kzbin.info/www/bejne/ioDHkJhrnr9sqq8 After this, you'll - either think that your chair isn't well adjusted. If so, watch that: kzbin.info/www/bejne/eqaTh4hmnbSporM - or think that your chair isn't good enough. If so, watch this: kzbin.info/www/bejne/fne0Yn-QotWZi68 And then, send me your feedback 😅

[@AK-ljkm]

Splendid! Splendid!! Splendid!!!👏👏👏👏 You have earned my respect. Thank you. I endorse this video & information. Additionally forward pelvic tilt position (in this kneeling chair model) increases the risk of cervical injuries. This sitting model is not ergonomic. And please do not recommend "Swiss Kneeling Chair" casually to co-workers - it can aggravate Lumbar, Cervical, or Knee pain. Leave health decisions for the experts.

[@OlivierGirard]

Thank you Adnan! I appreciate your message :) !!

[@AK-ljkm]

@@OlivierGirard my pleasure. 👍👏👏🏝💖🏖🎊🏆

[@jdstep97]

Do what works for you. The back of my legs hurt. I sit A LOT, maybe up to 12 hours a day due to my job. With the kneeling chair, some of that pressure is off the back of my legs. If it's not good for you, don't do it.

[@lindajohnson4676]

Please share what's optimal sitting /standing position if one has a 1) tight left hip & labral tear, 2) L4-L5 bulged disc, 3) flat feet & pronating ankles (foot pain) ... AND what positions to avoid. TIA.

[@OlivierGirard]

Hi Tia! This is a long shopping list ;) ! You know, if this could be described in as little as a few lines, I wouldn't have spent months writing THE POSTURE MANUAL (www.theposturemanual.com) or creating posture coaching programs (www.onlinepostureprograms.com). As you can see in many of my videos, posture correction is about great precision, like watchmaking... I am happy to help you with all this, but it requires proper 1-1 coaching that goes even beyond my automated programs. If you want to discuss this, send me a mail to [e-mail]

[@christamacnaughton8223]

My balans chair puts hardly any pressure on my knees at all

[@asnark7115]

Kneeling chairs don't "hollow" your back. If you have that posture when sitting in one, then you brought it with you to the chair.

[@silentlessons4221]

you hv a gentle and wonderful voice.

[@OlivierGirard]

... and a French accent :-) Thank you for the compliment!!!

[@aysha6517]

I have a slight sclerosis causing me extreme neck pain. I was planning to buy a kneeling chair. I also used a Pilates ball to sit on. What would be your advice?

[@OlivierGirard]

Hey dear. As I explain in another video (kzbin.info/www/bejne/ioDHkJhrnr9sqq8), the whole idea of sitting is to stabilize the pelvis in a neutral posture, and next to this to stand up at least twice an hour. The kneeling chair does not help you reach the neutral posture (you go into excessive lordosis), and the Pilates ball is not stable (hence you should see it as a training tool to be used once in a while, 10 min at a time). So my advice is: get a proper office chair (kzbin.info/www/bejne/fne0Yn-QotWZi68) and arrange your activities so that you move enough during the day... Makes sense?

[@aysha6517]

@@OlivierGirard yh makes totally sense. I did buy an office chair after watching your video. I usually do Pilates twice a week but atm coz of the lockdown I couldn’t do it anymore.

[@numans.9741]

This makes sense.

[@jeremycatches9766]

What about the person that is forced to sit so much that the pressure on their butt starts to cause pain and with the kneeling chair they have the option of taking the pressure on their butt and spreading it out onto their knees?

[@OlivierGirard]

Good question, Jeremy. I as an ergonomist would always first question the "is forced to sit so much": what would the context be, and what would make that this person has his / her butt glued to the chair without any possibility to move out of it?

[@trainspotminiramp1634]

What if you have to bend over during your work? As a tattoo artist I have to bend over and move around the body part that I’m tattooing. As I’m banding over my hamstring are stretched and pulling the ischial tuberosity. My lower back struggles, over contract and inquire. With a kneeling chair this is not happening.

[@OlivierGirard]

Great question, mate! There are 2 solutions, which are both based on the idea that you should sit higher to come closer to your client, hence bend forward less: - either you do like dentists on a saddle chair (pref. with a backrest) - check out this subtitled video to see how to adjust a saddle chair: kzbin.info/www/bejne/aIilladpfamspbc. The max duration of use if 4 hr per day due to pressure on the soft tissues of the inner thighs - either you do what I have implemented in some specific workplaces of the watchmaking industry: you get a HAG Capisco and use it the other way around (www.sitzenundwohnen.com/images/products_more/gross/HAG_Capisco_Movement_2014_11Newspaper.jpg). Instead of supporting your pelvis whilst bending forward, you support the torso. How do you feel about these solutions?

[@clody731]

I have been suffering of coccyx pain for over one year, I haven 't found any solution so far. I thought this kind of chair would diminish the pressure on my coccyx. I sit at my desk for 8 hours a day putting pressure on this site does not help the recovery process. Do you think this kind of chair is useless for this specific problem? Thanks in advance for your kind reply.

[@OlivierGirard]

I have just helped a guy with similar pain this week. I used this cushion www.backjoy.eu/en/backjoy-sitzright-black.html. There are some other models (e.g., www.amazon.com/Xtreme-Comforts-Cushions-Support-Tailbone/dp/B00V2L5JRA?th=1). Have you tried one of those? They will not have the side effects of kneeling chairs on the lower back (excessive lordosis).

[@clody731]

@@OlivierGirard thanks for your kind reply

[@earlocampo]

Do you think using a kneeling chair for short periods ok?

[@OlivierGirard]

Sure. Unhealthy postures will only have consequences in combination with duration, frequency or effort: that's explained in this video kzbin.info/www/bejne/p3bCmWp8jL2Ubck. However, you should be careful with what I call "fake posture variation": standing with a hollow back (e.g., because of anterior pelvic tilt or high heels) then sitting on a kneeling chair that hollows your backs isn't posture variation for the lower back... This idea is detailed in this other video: kzbin.info/www/bejne/hJXanqJpaJibrqM

[@jeffreymurillo3131]

So you're saying to get a proper chair and adjust it properly? I've done that but I still find myself slouching all the time. So what's the solution then?

[@OlivierGirard]

This is a good question, Jeffrey. The answer is spread across several of my videos: - by experience, many people don't actually know how to recognize a proper chair (kzbin.info/www/bejne/fne0Yn-QotWZi68) and how to adjust it well (kzbin.info/www/bejne/eqaTh4hmnbSporM) - then, the question is what is it to sit well (kzbin.info/www/bejne/ioDHkJhrnr9sqq8). An essential part of this is that if your shoulder blades press against the backrest, you'll slide in the chair and slouch; - finally, no human body can stay for more than 30 min in a chair. Hence, to avoid slouching you need to stand very often (kzbin.info/www/bejne/oJqyd3-PgLCcnbc)

[@jeffreymurillo3131]

@@OlivierGirard My office chair cost like $2000+ and infinitely adjustable, not only the height and length of the arms but those arms also swivel. The point is, I will eventually find myself either slouching or on that feet under and forward position.

[@OlivierGirard]

Check out the community tab on my channel, ​ @Jeffrey Murillo. I have offered free advice if I can see what we're talking about (pictures or video). Maybe that's a way to bring this discussion to the next level :) !

[@jeffreymurillo3131]

@@OlivierGirard Sorry but not gonna happen anytime soon. Working from home that's why I'm looking for something. I believe it was a Steelcase brand office chair that cost around $2000 when I checked it online.

[@nvarras7]

I work leaning forward and most chairs leave me with no back support because I'm leaning forward away from the back of the chair. Almost all chairs have a 90 degree angle and wont lean forward with me thus offering no lumbar or any other support....

[@OlivierGirard]

I see... a healthy posture is slightly forward, but slightly only (a few degrees only). But habits are tough to change... you should look at the chairs from BMA Axia: their tilt axis is under the front edge of the seat pan, so they go much more forward than all others. I don't agree 100% with their sitting philosophy, but I think that for your it would be quite suited :)

[@bakitganun7288]

I was about to make one of these but you made very good sense

[@360.Tapestry]

what he failed to mention is that it's even more unhealthy to use the same chair he's sitting in from the same video lmao laughable quack

[@missykitty100able]

Hey. Does the same apply to chairs that lean forward? I do pottery, which is hard on your back and I'm trying to find a good position. Recently I bought a chair (not exactly this kind) but it's a stool that you can adjust to make the front two legs shorter. It's a potters stool specifically. Would these things still apply to a stool like that? I just don't know what other options to try to alleviate the strain during pottery.

[@OlivierGirard]

Hey Melissa! It depends. It's true that when you do pottery you need a chair that helps you being slightly forward, but that does not necessarily imply a hollow back. You basically need something with these 2 features: - a height adjustable backrest that can move really far forward - a seat pan that you can tilt forward a little (around 5° is usually a good balance between being forward, not sliding and not hollowing the back). If you sit on it for less than 4 hrs a day, you can test a saddle seat (e.g., www.posturite.co.uk/score-jumper-saddle-stool-with-backrest.html). Otherwise, you need something rather like that: www.dauphin.de/dauphin/de/englisch/Produkte/620_tec_classic.php, which is the model that my clients use in the watchmaking and the pharma industry. Does this help?

[@UltimatePowa]

You saved me a world of pain, thank you. _I have spinal stenosis (6mm), scoliosis, arthritis, torn ligaments, and a hip displacement at 29 years old_ Almost impossible to find a chair that works for me thats cheaper than a car

[@OlivierGirard]

I'm glad if I could help! Indeed, your back is sensitive, you really have to take care of it. There's one type of chairs that you could maybe find comfortable... they are called 24 hours seats. I know 2 models: - www.throna.com/en/collezione-tech/24-hour/ - www.bma-ergonomics.com/en/product/bma-secur24-exclusive/#ad-image-0 These are seats that are typically used in the control rooms (police, fire dept., etc.) because people stay in them for a super long time. They are a bit more expensive that an Ikea chair indeed, but much less than a car! Sometimes, they can even be found 2nd hand e.g., when companies refurbish.

[@stefelizabeth2785]

I'm 31 and have similar problems :(

[@lilli9822]

thanks for the tips!I bought expensive kneeling and ergonomic office chair, I get tired to sit down always in the same type of chair so I use them alternatively. I was bedridden for long time and my back muscles are very weak but the best sitting position for me is to sit on the floo in a 15euro cork brick with my leg crossed!! I like very much your videos, you are very articulate in your explanation, I can see you really care about other people health! you have a new subscriber!

[@OlivierGirard]

Thank you very much!! Welcome to the channel :) !

[@AG-im3dz]

The word 'Kneeling' in Kneeling chair doesn't mean that you put all your pressure on your knees. If you are doing this then you are using kneeling chair the wrong way.

[@OlivierGirard]

This is actually a side issue... the main issue is hollow back and no effective lumbar support. Then I would cite pressure in the knee due to joint angle. Then only, pressure due to leaning on the patella, depending on the model.

It seems to be that is not the same to seat with your feet under the chair than having your weight on your knees. The centres of balance are quite different so this analysis may not be accurate...

[@angelar3045]

Cartilage is now a beautiful word.

[@_digital_dan]

This was very informative! Would you say that sattle chairs (such as Salli chairs) create a similar hollow-back problem?

[@OlivierGirard]

Hey dear! Saddle chairs will only cause that problem if you use them with your feet under your buttocks: that's what hollows your back. But if your heels are vertically under your knees, no problem! The only issue with saddle seats, and why we recommend to limit their use to 4hr per day, is that they put pressure on the soft inner thigh tissues (and sometimes on the intimates parts). Check out my video on how to use one (kzbin.info/www/bejne/aIilladpfamspbc - just activate the subtitles because I speak French in it). Also read the comments - I have a discussion with Oliver on the Salli chair. Does it help :) ?

[@_digital_dan]

@@OlivierGirard yes, thank you very much! It’s interesting that Salli claim in their FAQ that it’s okay to spend the whole day in their chairs.

[@OlivierGirard]

It’s playing with the words... if I’m in movement a lot, I can be the whole day WITH the chair, but not sit ON it for more than 4 hrs 😅. Another interpretation: you speak to a CEO and tell her that your chair can be used for 50% of the working day only. What’s her reaction, you think 😉?

[@terrypark3690]

Personally think you just missed the point of kneeling chairs and are very unrealistic about how hard it is to break bad posture habits. My understanding is kneeling chairs are for people who never use the back rest because they slouch. But your whole argument is the back rest is crucial. And i agree with your statement-it just doesn't address the actual issue people who look at kneeling chairs are trying to fix. We're not going to use the back rest even if it's there abd that's the whole problem. Obviously in the long term it would be nice to have the habit sitting back but we are so far away from that goal we're saying okay I'll try to get this half way point safely while you're saying no it's all or nothing if you're not going to get it one go don't even try. Also, your shins should be on the rest, not the knee.

[@OlivierGirard]

I'm not sure if I fully agree with your comment. But I agree on one crucial point: habits are hard to break. That's why I always say that "I don't have time for people who don't have time for themselves" (you can also replace time by energy😉). Definitely, my positioning is about postural accuracy and I don't like bad "solutions" that are heavily marketed, even when they are "less bad" than the rest. I'm fully aware that my approach will not appeal to 95% of humankind - nonetheless, I think that approximations driven by marketers won't resolve the pain epidemics that we're witnessing everywhere.

[@Nufrifin]

I have one, but I put my feet on the pads and squat. It's pretty dope. Am I going to die horribly?

[@OlivierGirard]

Well, we're all gonna die 😅... some more horribly than others !!

[@taralafferty9775]

So what type of chair do you recommend?

[@OlivierGirard]

Hi Tara. Here is a video to answer your question: kzbin.info/www/bejne/fne0Yn-QotWZi68

[@BlazblueFan]

Thanks for this video. I was thinking about getting a kneeling chair, but I was feeling some knee pain for a last year and was worried that It would become worse. I ended up getting quite expensive office chair with many adjustable parts.

[@OlivierGirard]

I think it's a wise choice. Now, beware that more adjustable chairs are also more difficult to adjust: you have to understand every control and find the right setup. You may want to have a look at my video on how to adjust an office chair properly😀 : kzbin.info/www/bejne/eqaTh4hmnbSporM

[@geolassies]

Thank you for the post. Your discrimination of the mechanics while using the kneeling chairs was superb.

[@OlivierGirard]

Thank you dear!

[@Brandon-ob9rg]

Kneeling chair saved my back!

[@evesambaya]

Same here

[@GamerGeezer]

@@evesambaya same

[@Suki_Stormi]

Hey! So if this is true, why do so many chiropractors recommend it? I’m so confused! There is so much conflicting advice out there

[@OlivierGirard]

I can't speak for other people... but here is food for thoughts: - I just got a very kind spontaneous message from a chiropractor who's reading my book (www.theposturemanual.com), in which I detail all the biomechanical facts that bring me to this conclusion. So probably not all chiropractors think alike; - you have to remember that the traditional paramedical paradigm is a "hands-on" one: therapists are trained to do something on you. This is not the same job as empowering you to take care of yourself. Hence, when they observe that you are in a slouched posture, they don't have all the necessary tools to guide you through the behavioral change process (=posture correction, or posture therapy). Hence, they tend to easily fall into radical solutions... and it's very true that kneeling chairs correct slouched back. My point is that they over-correct. To avoid falling to the other extreme and find just the middle, you need to train people's understanding of biomechanics, proprioception (body awareness) and motor control: that's a hands-off expertise.

[@i.r.baboon]

What about varnier? They seem legit

[@OlivierGirard]

Biomechanically it's always the same: - feet under your buttocks therefore hollow back, - no lumbar support (either because there's none foreseen or because anyway your belt moves in the opposite direction), and therefore less weight transfer to the chair, i.e. more load on your tissues. So these things are OK for a short while, but do not do the job of office chairs well chosen, well adjusted and well used :)

[@HECKAKYH-ADEKBATEH]

0:40 by time you turn 40 yo, you get hemorrhoids from that idea.

[@mohemmedfarazkhan]

Thank you for this informative video. I am having disc prolapse problem between L5-S1. Can you please suggest me what kind of chair should I prefer? Thanks in advance.

[@OlivierGirard]

Thanks for reaching out, Mohemmed! What you need is a chair with a great lumbar support... The issue is that chair manufacturers are not equally distributed everywhere on the planet, so recommending one model isn't easy. This is why I have published technical specs as well as general advice on this page: www.ergoh-conseil.ch/screen-work-training.html (check at the bottom). I hope it helps!!

[@iSpeciaIist]

Glad I found this before spending a ton of money on one of these things

[@OlivierGirard]

Keep your cash for a good office chair and my posture program, dear 😄 !

[@riadazerty5466]

I don't agree with you. because we must always change our posture. I bought the chair, I find it comfortable. i have problem s1 l5. it relieved me. in addition, it adjustment you can each time changed the posture. I recommend it

[@OlivierGirard]

I agree with the fact that we need to move, but the argument is often not well understood by people: alternating between unhealthy postures will not make us healthy... this is what I explain in this video on the Soul Seat: kzbin.info/www/bejne/hJXanqJpaJibrqM

[@aurelienb9109]

@@OlivierGirard Sitting on a normal chair is not healthy posture, even with very expensive ergonomic ones.

[@Afrinaturality]

Is there a chair you would recommend for someone with lordosis?

[@OlivierGirard]

I would mainly avoid some chairs e.g. those with a seat pan that’s inclined forward (this hollows the back). Furthermore, you need a super comfortable lumbar support so that you want to lean on it: height adjustable, padded, and if you have the budget inflatable. Now, the offer depends on the market: where do you live?

[@Afrinaturality]

@@OlivierGirard Thanks Olivier. I'm based in the UK.

[@OlivierGirard]

@@Afrinaturality Great! There are many brands there... the one I know the best is Kinnarps (www.kinnarps.co.uk/products/seating/task-chairs/): if one of their showrooms is nearby, try and pay a visit. Another good brand is Dauphin: www.dauphin.de/dauphin/de/englisch/. I really recommend that you take the time to try the chairs before buying (see my video on the topic: kzbin.info/www/bejne/fne0Yn-QotWZi68)... remember that you buy your chair for the next 10-15 years!

[@Afrinaturality]

@@OlivierGirard Thank you! ☺️

[@gmartinez5295]

Thank you for this! I recently bought and tried one and am experiencing the stress on my knees, just as you explain here. I am petite at 4'11" after having lost some height due to cervical stenosis. I do understand from my chiropractor that there is a relationship between all parts of the spine, so I cannot just simply try to correct a slouch posture for my neck and then inadvertently cause hollow lumbar back in the process - end result will be the same over time - chronic back problems everywhere! Do you have any recommendations for an ergonomic chair for petites that won't break the bank? I have found that most office chairs' lowest position are not low enough for me to place my feet solidly on the ground, and also that the seat depths are too long, rendering the chair back's lumbar supports useless to me. :( Thank you so much in advance for any help you can give!!!

[@charmedimsure8852]

Loved your honest and evidence based critique.

[@OlivierGirard]

thank you, dear!

[@360.Tapestry]

hypothesis-based LMAO .... y'all really just be saying words. he literally gave no evidence. may as well have just described how pooping works and then say no to it

[@fighterjet1917]

sir, will the pressure of kneeling chair can affect on my height growth? I used kneeling chair around 10 months from this march. My age is 16 but my height is still around 169cm(5.5feet) I want to make a serious decision on whether I'm gonna throw this chair away or not.

[@OlivierGirard]

Hey dear! I’m not aware of any impact of this chair on your growth... but don’t worry about your height. It is what it is, and it has nothing to do with greatness 😉. Avoiding a hollow back is in my opinion a better reason to throw it away, or simply to use it only once in a while instead of all day long...

[@flintstone5404]

how about a pilates ball as an office chair at home?

[@OlivierGirard]

Good question, Flint! I have written an article on this: www.trainyourposture.com/blog-posture-ergonomics/chair-or-gym-ball-at-the-office. Basically, the idea is that as you don't have a lumbar support, there's less transfer to the seat i.e. more weight remains on your tissues. Add to this the instability that the ball creates for the pelvis, and that's why I don't recommend it to replace a good office chair + postural variation through adapting the posture to the activity (e.g., standing for a call). But you may use it once in a while, especially when having an activity that's intellectually light enough to let you focus on your posture. Makes sense?

[@Pixie_Of_SJ]

All I had to hear was “scam” and I was sold! I think they’re a scam too. Thank you so much for this video.

[@OlivierGirard]

"Scam" used to be in the title but it got me so much criticism that I softened it 😂... a bit.

[@Pixie_Of_SJ]

@@OlivierGirard I asked my chiropractor his opinion on them & he said the same as you..that was enough for me. FYI, I wouldn’t want to create content these days, everyone gets offended by the simplest of things. Thanks again!🙏

[@saramoooon]

Views are 85k but the likes are 95k? How?

[@OlivierGirard]

I only see 1.1k likes 😂... do you really see 95k??